eHam
eHam Forums => DXing => Topic started by: WB9LUR on March 16, 2023, 07:35:10 PM
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Their next scheduled stop in in the Marquesas where they plan to deploy the radio-in-a-box - testing its remote DXpedition capabilities plus - they have invented and built a special quick deploying landing craft that they will be testing as well?
I had CW MM QSO's (160M) with him when they were near Cocos and then when they were off of the Galapagos Islands. Hope to work them when they are onshore too - need Marquesas on 160 meters!
Lot's more info about their project on the QRZ page here:
https://www.qrz.com/db/AA7JV?aliasFrom=AA7JV/MM
Randy / WB9LUR
ps ... they have been active on/off as maritime mobile - kinda cool to make CW QSO's with MM especially on MF - an echo of early radio and ships at sea.
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I got them on 160m on 03/04/23, 12:11 UTC, when they were near the Galapagos Islands as well. Their signal was an honest 599! I uploaded the QSO to LoTW as AA7JV/MM and got a confirmation. Their signal on 160m was superior.
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More FAKE ham radio. But if that is what floats your boat (so to say) go for it.
(https://i.ibb.co/0C15rHH/Capture1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I don't think AA7JV has to worry about things being "expensive" when he lives in a 23 million dollar home. Don't believe me?
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17-N-Hibiscus-Dr-Miami-Beach-FL-33139/43895083_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17-N-Hibiscus-Dr-Miami-Beach-FL-33139/43895083_zpid/)
Don't get me wrong I'm all for capitalism but operating HF from a boat via a 900MHz link is even one step below operating HF via Internet remote. I guess that is how the ultra rich go on DXpeditions. Hopefully he will have a lot of good DXing story's for the boys at the Miami yacht club.
Tom KH0/KC0W
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I got them on 160m on 03/04/23, 12:11 UTC, when they were near the Galapagos Islands as well. Their signal was an honest 599! I uploaded the QSO to LoTW as AA7JV/MM and got a confirmation. Their signal on 160m was superior.
You are correct about that - kinda rare to see MM on LOTW but both QSO's are QSL.
I hope we have prop on some band(s) for their entire voyage/mini-DXpedition stops. I think that I'll set up a RBN filter for */MM to make it easier to keep up as to when they are on-the-air.
Randy/WB9LUR
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More FAKE ham radio. But if that is what floats your boat (so to say) go for it.
(https://i.ibb.co/0C15rHH/Capture1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I don't think AA7JV has to worry about things being "expensive" when he lives in a 23 million dollar home. Don't believe me?
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17-N-Hibiscus-Dr-Miami-Beach-FL-33139/43895083_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17-N-Hibiscus-Dr-Miami-Beach-FL-33139/43895083_zpid/)
Don't get me wrong I'm all for capitalism but operating HF from a boat via a 900MHz link is even one step below operating HF via Internet remote. I guess that is how the ultra rich go on DXpeditions. Hopefully he will have a lot of good DXing story's for the boys at the Miami yacht club.
Tom KH0/KC0W
When I first read about the RIB concept I admit I was skeptical. Still am. I'd rather see old fashioned solo, small team and mega DXpeditions actually operate from the physical DX location but - in those rare places where that may never be allowed again?
Maybe there's more to consider. Fair game for disagreement and debate.
As to wealth. I am certain that him and I are at totally opposite extremes financially speaking. I won't hold it against him. Ha! If I had that sorta money I'd probably be doing more cool stuff with radio (among other things) too.
I have had two CW QSO's with him, one email exchange and he did upload to LOTW which was unexpected. All of his communications have been civil, courteous and friendly. I do hope do work him again on CW/MM as they voyage across the South Pacific.
Randy / WB9LUR
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Are these the same ones doing the KH7Z/MM radio in a box? I did copy that on 6 meters a couple of times but no QSO :(
73 John AF5CC
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Are these the same ones doing the KH7Z/MM radio in a box? I did copy that on 6 meters a couple of times but no QSO :(
73 John AF5CC
Yep! That's them. I don't use FT8 but a chance for some of you to work MM and even score some new rare grids. Here's the KH7Z/MM link :
https://www.qrz.com/db/KH7Z?aliasFrom=KH7Z/MM
Randy / WB9LUR
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Worked FO/AA7JV on 14.074 about 30 minutes ago (3 am my local time). Good signal and very easy to work. Not sure if this is already the planned Marquesas operation or not. If it is, it would be a new marathon point. ;D ;D ;D
Marvin VE3VEE
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Worked FO/AA7JV on 14.074 about 30 minutes ago (3 am my local time). Good signal and very easy to work. Not sure if this is already the planned Marquesas operation or not. If it is, it would be a new marathon point. ;D ;D ;D
Marvin VE3VEE
Not signing with "MM" so thinking it is their planned op on shore. Saw them spotted on 160M but heard nothing - then, a little after 0900 UTC they were spotted on 40M - worked them just for the fun of it on 40 - will keep an ear out for them top band.
At anchor according to "Marine Traffic" :
(https://i.ibb.co/PxjZxb5/Magnet-FO-AA7-JV-2-3.jpg)
Link at Marine Traffic :
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:6230184/zoom:9
Randy / WB9LUR
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I admire the creativity of this operation. However that landing craft is pretty laughable. Even the slightest wave coming on shore with the landing look like it would put that thing on its side and good luck righting it. Sure hope they have a Zodiac as well.
Ed N1UR
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Maybe the RIB in accidently wash up on Bouvet and transmit from there!
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More FAKE ham radio. But if that is what floats your boat…
operating HF via Internet remote….
Tom KH0/KC0W
Working DX through a repeater link isn’t working DX. But its not about how, it’s all about the diminished sense of accomplishment by what you can claim to take credit for.
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I worked him signing fo/aa7jv on 20 cw last night so I assume they made land fall. The RIB thing is unique. Its an idea for activating remote or dangerous places, might have worked on Bouvet. I have a friend with a remote to his station on a hilltop. Ve3Vee works through a remote. What's the big difference?
Frank KG6N
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Ve3Vee works through a remote. What's the big difference?
Frank KG6N
none. That’s my point.
To some, it makes no difference.
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Ve3Vee works through a remote. What's the big difference?
Frank KG6N
none. That’s my point.
To some, it makes no difference.
I'm 100 miles from my remote station. They are 1 mile from theirs. That's a 99 mile difference. ;D ;D ;D
Marvin VE3VEE
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Ve3Vee works through a remote. What's the big difference?
Frank KG6N
none. That’s my point.
To some, it makes no difference.
I'm 100 miles from my remote station. They are 1 mile from theirs. That's a 99 mile difference. ;D ;D ;D
Marvin VE3VEE
Let’s review - What’s the commonality here?
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Ve3Vee "I can see my tower from here!!!!!"
I can't remember which but either ZL9 or ZL8 where they can't stay on island overnight. This or the link technology would be huge for the half the world that needs them during that time.
Speaking of which;
Whatever happened to the ZL9HR money thing? Haraoa? Last I remember of being here, there was a scuffle over the accounting and dispersement amongst the operators. Did it every come to a resolution?
Frank KG6N
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Ve3Vee works through a remote. What's the big difference?
Frank KG6N
none. That’s my point.
To some, it makes no difference.
I'm 100 miles from my remote station. They are 1 mile from theirs. That's a 99 mile difference. ;D ;D ;D
Marvin VE3VEE
Let’s review - What’s the commonality here?
They both operate the control point remotely? The rules say the antenna and tx have to be on land right?
Frank KG6N
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If they're operating RIB-style their box is putting in a pretty big signal to NJ this afternoon on 15 CW. Got him before the killer EU pileup started, thankfully.
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Working DX through a repeater link isn’t working DX. But its not about how, it’s all about the diminished sense of accomplishment by what you can claim to take credit for.
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The 10 meter FM gang would tend to disagree with you on your characterization of it being called a repeater link.
It all depends on what you consider dx and what you consider to be a repeater also as I was working thru one of the sunshine coast Australia repeaters on 29.68 MHz FM last night and I consider that to be valid DX.
I was running a 30 year old 60 watt Motorola 10 meter Maxtrac and my 67 inch maxrad mobile whip.
What you are describing is not a repeater either it is more of a remote base link which is also very common on 10 meters FM.
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If you work someone on a 10 meter repeater, you are working the repeater. If you work a transmitter on an island, you are working the island. Repeater contacts are not valid for DXCC. This method of activation is legal at this point. Just because its easier for them to operate, doesn't mean its wrong. Just like a remote home station. The transmitter/antenna location is what counts. All these guys with K3/0 setups are remoting.
What if he ran an ethernet cable out onto the boat and ran the FT8 from his laptop?
Frank KG6N
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it’s all about the diminished sense of accomplishment by what you can claim to take credit for.
My "sense of accomplishment" has not been "diminished" a single bit! ;D ;D ;D
I know exactly what I have accomplished. I accomplished exactly the same as every one else around here. I have put together a simple ham radio station. Not a big deal. Everyone else here has done it. In addition to that, I have set up a networking system so I can control all the components of my station remotely, from home, from work, from car, from bedroom, from washroom, from backyard, from front yard, etc. ;D ;D ;D
So in essence it has been a bit more difficult for me because I had to learn a little bit about networking, my station includes components that a typical home station may not need, and also each time something goes wrong, I have to get into my car and travel 3 hours just to find out what has gone wrong instead of just having access to everything right at my home. 8) 8) 8)
Marvin VE3VEE
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I'm not "station shaming" someone based on the location of the transmitter! That's sooo 2005!
Remote ham radio aside......You can call in and work DX from the east coast all day and call in and work it all night from the west coast.....Not the same.
Don't let anyone give you any grief Marvin. If I had a hilltop around here to setup a a station on, it'd be in the works. The KPH listening staion picked out by Marconi is 30 miles from me. One of the quietest listening stations on the west coast, maybe I could sneak in a K3 remote and tee into the array?
Frank KG6N
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More FAKE ham radio. But if that is what floats your boat (so to say) go for it.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for capitalism but operating HF from a boat via a 900MHz link is even one step below operating HF via Internet remote.
I fail to see how this is fake ham radio. They landed and set up a station with their own two hands. Their signal is originating directly from the island. What difference does it make if they are sitting right next to the radio, or in a boat just offshore linking in? It's equivalent to having a long cable strung from the radio and antenna on shore to their boat, but instead of a physical cable, it is a wireless link. I do not see how that changes anything.
Would you say that I am engaging in "fake radio" since I am operating my own home station remotely from college? I am genuinely curious since that does not seem all that different from what they are doing. In fact, what I am doing might even be considered "worse" since I am going through the internet rather than a direct link.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just my two pennies! ;D
EDIT: I see KD6KVL made a similar point. I missed that before submitting this reply.
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Watching, lurking, reading the mail on this thread.
I ran 80+ "remote" CW Q's from Dom's station on Fiji with my Fiji license (3D2UN). A leisure effort via AnyDesk. I logged in twice. I can do it anytime I wish. We did it so I could give CW and SSB contacts from where Dom is headed later this year. A dry run, getting used to it "kinda' thing".
Dom wants to dedicate a station for me on T30 and several other not yet announced Entities for CW and SSB while he runs FT8.
It's legal. The LoTW counts, but so far it just doesn't feel right. I've spent my entire 50+ years in Ham Radio making Q's from MY STATION(s). It feels weird.
Dom's putting in the time, money, travel, radios, antenna's, experience and I just log in.
I'm still on the fence whether it's worth my time (no effort) to put up with the idiots, cops, brain dead and deliberate QRMers while sitting here in my shack drinking a Bud Light.
So far it's just, "meh". Time will tell.
NØUN
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I'm not "station shaming" someone based on the location of the transmitter! That's sooo 2005!
inappropriate labels aside, this issue didn’t exist in 2005 so that characterization is dubious.
That some get so defensive when anyone expresses an opinion here which they don’t like is telling.
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I fail to see how this is fake ham radio.
I was running bands for my 5BWAS with Tom back over 20 years ago... and I know for a fact he's old school. It's an opinion thing, Mason, that's all... it's about preferences and what we 'used to do'. (Frankly, I like my Yaesu at home as opposed to taking my 20-something tube Heathkit HW-101 up on the mountain for field day!) Remember the comment is coming from someone who does not use LotW. If he doesn't like LotW and IS okay with a remote station operated remotely from a boat offshore, then I would be seriously worried about him. That's just not Tom! ;)
Everybody is different and I like Tom for who he is. He keeps ham radio traditions alive and well. Me, I am middle of the road. I went to the Nevada desert to give out satellite grids, but then had to wait until someone else went to work the grids myself. While I know many that basically get a club/special callsign, travel to a remote grid, then call up their stations at home and work themselves by remote. (they are using the different callsign in the field) Me, I like to use my gear at home, and do it myself. What the DX is doing... I might be a little more liberal on that. As long as they are operating within the rules, I'm good with it. Especially if they are spending theor own money. But if I spent my own bucks to travel the world and give out new ones myself, I might feel more like Tom. :)
As always, your mileage may vary... 73, Kevin N4UFO
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I appreciate Tom and the CW thing. I worked him across the pacific years ago and it was a lot of fun. I need to write up some cards to confirm them!
Frank KG6N
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(https://i.postimg.cc/rwnvBW4K/dangerfield5.png)
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Everybody is different and I like Tom for who he is. He keeps ham radio traditions alive and well.
Absolutely. I was just stating my own personal view of the topic. I have nothing but respect for Tom and all of his DX activity that was occurring even well before existed :) I might disagree with his position that what AA7JV is doing is fake radio, but as I said, everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, and there is nothing wrong with keeping it "old school" if one so desires!
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I don't understand what the problem is.
If I work a station in Fiji and the operator is 5 miles or 5000 miles away, what do I care?
My job is the same as it always was. Get the signal to Fiji and have a radio in Fiji send the signal back.
I did the very same, regardless. As long as the station is actually in Fiji how would I know or care about the rest?
Why are we so worried about what's going on in the other guy's shack? Why does how hard or easy it is for him have anything to do with what I accomplished?
Some of you are going to have to give up ham radio. You're way too worried about mode, the other guy's station, and a hundred other things that you do not control and never will. And, apparently, more every day. It is, as AA6YQ points out, a technical hobby. Expect change.
I'm amazed some of you haven't died of an aneurism.
Besides, some of you have probably worked dozens of remote stations now and did not know it. In these cases, tell me how your sense of accomplishment was diminished. Is it retroactively diminished when someone tells you that "so and so was operating PJ2 from Kansas?" Wow. That's working way, way too hard at something that's hard enough as it is. Maybe you shouldn't try and find out.
Maybe you should just settle for working the call signs you hear and let someone else be the killjoy cops. Just an idea.
If you want to work radio, traditionally, I have no objection. Especially if you insist on plopping your butt down on Godforsaken Island yourself. Major props to you if you do.
But, stateside, sometimes the traditional way is even easier now. I just worked an A4 on SSB, fairly easily, probably because PSKReporter told me there was another A4 on the same band running FT8. Less competition is fine with me. More stations, more activity is also fine with me.
There's plenty and enough out there to make it harder, after all.
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I have no issue with it as it stands now but we all know where this is heading.
Soon people will be logging into the autonomous system and working DX while sipping a beer in Ca and then the next step will be charging people for the "thrill" of working as a Dx station from a remote location.
I can already smell the rotten odor of another RHR business model coming to life!
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Radio-------Coax--------Antenna
Anything else is FAKE ham radio.
Question for the Internet remote proponents: Can you operate without an Internet connection? A simple yes/no answer would be great.
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Absolutely yes. I would just lose the ability to take it with me anywhere I happen to be 24/7. ;D ;D ;D
Marvin VE3VEE
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Radio-------Coax--------Antenna
Anything else is FAKE ham radio.
Since I use ladder line between the radio and the antenna, I must be a FAKE.
The shame of it is overwhelming. I may sue DX Engineering for selling a product that led me down this path.
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Radio-------Coax--------Antenna
Anything else is FAKE ham radio.
I use a wireless mouse and wireless keyboard. Fake.
I use an automatic amplifier that sits on a shelf in my basement. Fake.
I use Green Heron Engineering Wi-Fi to switch antennas - remotely. Fake.
https://youtu.be/IgHThXuheOM
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ICOM makes the IC-705 which is their 10w portable HF/VHF/UHF rig. It has Bluetooth wireless built in so you can control it with a laptop and run FT8 via radio waves (2.4 GHz) from laptop to radio exactly the same as the example that started this thread. Bluetooth does not fall under Part 97 so any operation doing so is FAKE HAM RADIO. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
KE8KMX
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Radio-------Coax--------Antenna
Anything else is FAKE ham radio.
Question for the Internet remote proponents: Can you operate without an Internet connection? A simple yes/no answer would be great.
We’re you actually expecting an honest answer?
The “wireless mouse” and the “ladder line” responses serve only to show how some try to divert when the obvious flaw in their rationalization is pointed out.
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We’re you actually expecting an honest answer?
The “wireless mouse” and the “ladder line” responses serve only to show how some try to divert when the obvious flaw in their rationalization is pointed out.
No. You have that wrong.
In my case I was trying to add a bit of levity in response to Tom's flawed statement. That is no comment on a "rationalization" of any sort. I get what Tom is trying to say.
My own opinion, for what little it is worth, is that DX'ing is like playing solitaire. You are only competing against the odds and yourself. (Odds meaning propagation, luck in the pile-ups, and so on.)
Any real analysis of a station's performance when you take into account the terrain's effects on take-off angles, local noise, and all the rest means that no two stations are alike and really shouldn't be compared. That's hardly a real competition, is it? So, why treat it as such?
If you want to get philosophical, who is the better DX'er - a guy like W2QHH or some guy with stacked antennas on a rotary tower located on a bluff overlooking saltwater for most directions? Can you even compare the two?
Personally, I'm not advocating anything, other than enjoying yourself. Getting in the way of somebody else's fun isn't cool, but a lot of people seem to enjoy that more than actually working DX for themselves. I'm not in favor of that. The fun is supposed to be in the chase.
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Radio-------Coax--------Antenna
Anything else is FAKE ham radio.
Question for the Internet remote proponents: Can you operate without an Internet connection? A simple yes/no answer would be great.
No, I know I cannot.
In fact, not just any Internet connection, but you need a low latency Internet connection. You hear it daily, the big delay in a reply causing doubling. I've heard it hundreds of times in pileups where the DX station has called somebody and the guy on the remote doesn't answer the bell because of a latency issue. No, I'm not talking because of QRM, I'm talking latency. That delay kills a good CW pileup and breaks the rhythm of the Op. On a 30 WPM CW pileup it's really obvious who's running remote.
Starlink has speed, but at times there's also quite a bit of latency. You hear Internet "Gamers" complaining of latency issues all the time.
I can't seem to decide what I really think about remote operations. I've tried it twice now with 3D2UN and I am underwhelmed. Not sure what exactly I expected, but I'm still holding out hope it doesn't turn out like the two times I did FT8, bwahahahahahahaha!
NØUN
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Question for the Internet remote proponents: Can you operate without an Internet connection? A simple yes/no answer would be great.
I can most certainly can operate without the internet being involved when I am at my QTH, but while I am at college out of state I cannot, of course. If it weren't for my station being remote-capable, I would be QRT since there is no way for me to be able to put up an antenna at my apartment, and the club station at my university has not been functional for several years due to antenna damage (we are working on getting it back on the air though).
I do understand where you are coming from, but in the end, we will have to agree to disagree. We all have our own way of doing the hobby and there's nothing wrong with that! I'll be looking for you on the air in the future, Tom. I still need KH0 on a number of bands.
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I do understand where you are coming from
But I don't. ;D ;D ;D
When someone says "...but you cannot operate your station via the Internet...", I honestly do not understand the significance of using or not using a network connection to my own station. It is still my station, my radio, my antenna, my coax. During our QSO I tell you the QTH of my station, I confirm the QSO via LoTW with the correct country, grid, etc. What difference does it make to anyone or anything if I happen to be present at my QTH or if I happen to be in my car travelling somewhere using my station via the Internet.
Perhaps my not understanding the significance of this is because I was QRT for more than 25 years and during my inactivity people were experimenting with remotes so I must have missed all the discussions on the topic.
If someone wishes to enlighten me on the significance of not using any network connection to one's own station, please do so, or forever hold your peace. ;D ;D ;D
Marvin VE3VEE
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What's everybody getting so butt hurt about?
Tom specifically said (about remoting), "But if that is what floats your boat (so to say) go for it."
Go float your boats and remote all you want. Nobody said you can't.
NØUN
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Go float your boats and remote all you want. Nobody said you can't.
Wayne, thanks for the clarification. English is not my native language so I mistakenly thought some people were against remoting. ;D ;D ;D
8) 8) 8)
Marvin VE3VEE
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Go float your boats and remote all you want. Nobody said you can't.
Wayne, thanks for the clarification. English is not my native language so I mistakenly thought some people were against remoting. ;D ;D ;D
8) 8) 8)
Marvin VE3VEE
Marvin,
Say it ain't so, eh!
NØUN
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They had a very nice signal on 10m CW in to my part of the world this afternoon.
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Wayne, I really want to hear you as T30UN. About a year ago I asked someone about remoting a station via Starlink and at that time I was told Starlink was not the most suitable choice. In many parts of the world it however may be the only choice. GL and I hope it will be an enjoyable experience for you. And if it is not, than I'm sure it's only Starlink (latency) to blame.
Marvin VE3VEE
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Wayne, I really want to hear you as T30UN. About a year ago I asked someone about remoting a station via Starlink and at that time I was told Starlink was not the most suitable choice. In many parts of the world it however may be the only choice. GL and I hope it will be an enjoyable experience for you. And if it is not, than I'm sure it's only Starlink (latency) to blame.
Marvin VE3VEE
Marvin,
I am leaning on NOT doing any more remote operations. Not for the reason(s) you're thinking though. Probably more like a DXpeditioner may think - why should I spend my time getting QRMed by brain dead idiots? That's not any fun at all. I'd rather go ride my motorcycles than give the cowards the satisfaction of QRMing me.
When you hear T30UN in a few weeks, it will be Dom, not me.
NØUN
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Well, perhaps when the weather is not suitable for riding your motorcycles, you may decide to give it a try once or twice just for the fun of it. I still have about a foot of snow on the ground in my remote QTH. I have to wait for it to melt, but I can't wait to go there. I need to replace my remote SWR/Power meter that failed this winter in -25C / -13F temperature. ;D ;D ;D
Marvin VE3VEE
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For me - the extent of my "internet/network dependent" operating (minus spotting clusters, etc) would be remoting into my own station. This started with the popularity of FT8. It's winter time and I'm chasing xyz dxpedition on 80m and the time to hear them is perhaps 5am... I could connect to my pc via vnc to see if I could see if they were on 80m or decode the dxpedition without having to get out of bed. With 6m and the discovery of hamalert.. this evolved to me getting an alert and I could hop onto my pc from basically anywhere and so long my beam is pointed in the right direction.. I could try for that station on 6. With remoting into my computer and using digital there is no delays to worry about.
The only boundary I have and probably will never cross is the pay super stations. I prefer the challenge of using a station I put together and working with the limitations of what I have. I'm sure using a super station is an amazing experience and offers some advantages getting through pileups or hearing a station but it's just not for me. For those who like it or use it, to each their own. For some it might be the only way to get on the air (HOA, etc).
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For some it might be the only way to get on the air (HOA, etc).
Someday, alas, this might be me. I can imagine myself, in my late '80s, too frail to maintain a station and deciding between "nothing" and RHR. Don't know what option I would pick when I got there, but for some of us, that's the choice today.
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So now that you all got the crying about Remotes out of your system anyone work him yet,
Not seeing much activity, a bit of SSB and CW on 10m for NA tonight but where is the RIB's
Wasn't that the point, control op work's legacy modes and baby sits the Digi stations while it works away,
Lot's of guys in EU need this one on Digi so hopefully he will fire up at a time to give us a chance,
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I worked him on 160.
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I've seen a lot of LPL spots for him but not heard anything when I checked... I've got him at 40 and 30 cw.
Frank KG6N
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FO/AA7JV is on CW on 14.026 now at 0930 UTC (0530 my local time). His signal is 599+10dB and he has a decent size pileup. In the brief 10 minutes of listening to him, he has worked NA, EU, AS, OC, AF.
Marvin VE3VEE
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So now that you all got the crying about Remotes out of your system anyone work him yet,
Not seeing much activity, a bit of SSB and CW on 10m for NA tonight but where is the RIB's
Wasn't that the point, control op work's legacy modes and baby sits the Digi stations while it works away,
Lot's of guys in EU need this one on Digi so hopefully he will fire up at a time to give us a chance,
Can someone please translate this post into Simple (and proper) English?
Translate.google.com failed to translate this to my basic languages.
It looks like a stream-of-consciousness, a literary form.
By the way - I have seen a couple of acronyms here - RHR and LPL, for example - which Google does not find sensible meanings for.
There are tens of possible answers to each of them, but none fits the context.
RHR - Radio Horizon Range - makes no sense.
Amateur Radio is a global hobby. There are many variants of English language used in different parts of the world, even within the same country, and the majority of world's population do not understand English at all. It is said that Amateur Radio is about communication with other people. Is it?
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Thanks for man-splaining language.....
RHR is remote ham radio
LPL is W3LPL whos automated system sends lots of spots from cw skimmer to the spotting networks.
Hope you ham'enese skills get better!
Frank KG6N
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Can someone please translate this post into Simple (and proper) English?
Translate.google.com failed to translate this to my basic languages.
Thanks for man-splaining language.....
Hope you ham'enese skills get better!
Frank KG6N
You might want to look at the call sign of the individual who posted that, and then reply to him in perfect, grammatically-correct Swedish.
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I'm ill equipped, best I can do is some Swedish street slang, yo.
He won't bring others up to his level by insulting the faults he wants improved.
Frank KG6N
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So now that you all got the crying about Remotes out of your system anyone work him yet,
Not seeing much activity, a bit of SSB and CW on 10m for NA tonight but where is the RIB's
Wasn't that the point, control op work's legacy modes and baby sits the Digi stations while it works away,
Lot's of guys in EU need this one on Digi so hopefully he will fire up at a time to give us a chance,
Can someone please translate this post into Simple (and proper) English?
So now that everyone here is done complaining about remote access ham radio stations, did anyone work him?
Not seeing much activity. Some SSB and CW on 10m for NA tonight but where is the Radio in a Box device located.
Wasn't that their intention? The control operator works CW & SSB modes while he keeps a watch on the Digital stations working automatically.
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RHR - Remote Ham Radio - A business that rents out remotely accessible ham radio stations to licensed hams.
LPL - W3LPL CW spotting network. You can see many W3LPL spots on the DX clusters. Comes from many stations around the United States.
Lots of operators in Europe need this DX entity on the digital modes, so hopefully he will get on the air at a time that will give us a chance. (And by us, he means European operators.
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So now that you all got the crying about Remotes out of your system anyone work him yet?
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Not seeing much activity, a bit of SSB and CW on 10m for NA tonight
Worked them on 15 CW the other day. Massive signal and a good pileup. They were spotted on 160 CW overnight last night but I couldn't hear them (and I need them on Topband).
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Got them through a good pileup on 10CW yesterday afternoon. Took a while for them to get loud in New England.
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But where is the FT8 activity from the RIB's??
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Haven't seen any so far.
Frank KG6N
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I have worked him on 20m FT8 and 20m CW. I've seen him operate on 20m FT8 more than once.
Marvin VE3VEE
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Details W1VT FO/AA7JV 2023-03-19 21:32:47 10M CW 28.02655 MARQUESAS ISLANDS Selected 10M; Challenge #2497
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Details W1VT FO/AA7JV 2023-03-19 21:32:47 10M CW 28.02655 MARQUESAS ISLANDS Selected 10M; Challenge #2497
They confirmed my 30 and 40M QSO's as well. Really only need them on 12 and 160 but haven't heard them a bit on 160 - even when others were having QSO's ... will persevere.
Randy / WB9LUR
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Is this the same Marquesas station I heard the other day right on 28.300? That is the edge of the US CW/phone band, and yet I heard so many US stations calling and working him there. Did neither the DX and the US stations have no concern about the band plan edge?
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No spots in 3 days hope everything is ok, guess the Digi QSO I was after will have to wait for the next one,
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No spots in 3 days hope everything is ok, guess the Digi QSO I was after will have to wait for the next one,
Just worked them on Marquesas tonite on 10m. Loud here.
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I can't be 100 per cent certain, but it is highly likely that FO/AA7JV is now in DXCC entity FO (French Polynesia), not FO/M or FO/A or anything but just plain FO.
How can I be sure? Well, here's the evidence.
1. Clublog is reporting the station (for this evening's QSOs) as in French Polynesia.
2. DX Summit, which currently tags it in FO/M still, has many entries suggesting an island or island chain called Tuamutu.
3. IOTA says French Polynesia for Tuamutu: https://www.iota-world.org/islands-on-the-air/iota-groups-islands/group/825.html
4. Most critically, moments ago, AA7JV himself stated in a DX Summit entry that they were not in FO/M. He has not stated where they are but that presumably will come when the QRZ entry is updated (not updated as I type this -- yet).
The entry is: AA7JV-@ 35015.0 FO/AA7JV 05:31 30 Mar Not Marquesas,
. . .where "Not Marquesas" is the comment from AA7JV.
For this one, we'll have to keep track, by date, as to where this call sign is operating from.
To be very clear, I am suggesting the station, as of tonight or so, has moved. I am stating nothing about the former FO/M operation before hand, which seems to indeed be FO/M.
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It appears it is indeed French Polynesia. IOTA OC-066.
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Now here's something interesting from the FO/AA7JV QRZ page about the FO operation. This is apparently where they are operating from:
(https://cdn-bio.qrz.com/v/aa7jv/TikehauReefRIBboat2Resized.jpg?p=93a40a190d2edd666eb6e8e4e04e341c)
Their stated goal was to operate from the increasing number of places in the world where environmental pooh-bahs are telling us we can't operate because some species or other is endangered and they otherwise don't want to deal with human habitation. Whether you like what they are doing, one would have to rate this as success on that wise.
Notice how small this shoal is. It is basically a sandbar. Notice the lack of breeding waterfowl (a specific bone of contention on Baker). Notice the lack of human tents, human food, human litter, human latrines.
In short, this technology may enable us to operate, effectively and efficiently, from places that are somewhere between difficult and impractical otherwise.
Yes, we've all seen that ridiculous Scarborough picture. But, this really opens up the number of physical places we can expect to actually go and operate. Not every place in the world has a handy rock for scaffolding. Remember, too, this thing is operating on 160.
Change your mind, don't change your mind. This is capability we haven't had before and deserves a little contemplation in a world increasingly hostile to DXpeditions.
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I easily worked them on 80M FT8 this morning.
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I worked him on 20 ft8 last night.
Frank KG6N
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Tuamoto: https://www.dx-world.net/fo-aa7jv-marquesas-tuamotu/
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They sure had a great signal on 160M CW last night!
NØUN
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Dunno about this new-fangled stuff. I'm thinking that if they never set foot on land but dropped the setup via drone that might be a bridge too far...
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What difference does it make if the humans feet don't touch the land.? I don't see the problem. In fact I would be fine with the radio equipment just being near some god forsaken Island. A reasonable distance like within the 3 mile limit of the territorial waters. I know there was a hella hue and cry when Dom and company were operating in Fiji with a boat tied up to the pier. Yeah, what difference does it make? Rules are rules you say? lets change the rules to to fit our modern world. I don't care much for traditional things. Never have, never will. They were still operating from Fiji werent they? These RIBS definately fit within the rules I say. No matter how they got on the island, but like I said, I would be in favor of changing the rules that a boat within 3 miles of an island is "on the island" or as good as. I am sure many of you won't see it this way, but it sure would save one heck of a bunch of money and trouble. It would allow expeditions to dozens of "unobtanium" islands that are now not on the air and never will be again. DXing is JUST a game folks. It is NOT important in the world scheme of things, and the rules to the game are whatever we make them out to be. We can add DX entities and remove them just as fast.
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Lets take it further, if you hear the DX, you should get a card....I mean, your heard them....Everyone gets a trophy! Or, delete all the hard entities because its not "fair".
DX equity for all. Each to his needs and not to his accomplishments. Work ethic is privilidge and not all have it. We should take from those who have and distribute to those who don't, regardless of effort.
Frank KG6N Comrades.
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I am starting to just laugh at some of you.
You won't contribute to DXpeditions (at least one of you loudly now says as much). As if it were some sort of virtue.
But, you won't do anything to make expeditions more reasonable to put on, either.
You don't go yourself, so you have no real feel and understanding of the burdens you are placing on other people.
You are dimly aware, at best, that the DXpeditioner is subsidizing you.
But, we must somehow freeze the world in place and pretend it is still 1966 as far as DXpeditioning goes. When, in fact, it is not.
Love RIB, hate RIB, but recognize one key fact.
They did it in response to changes in the externally imposed rules that actual DXpeditioners have to follow.
The entire RIB technology was devised by DXpeditioners. They did not do it on a lark or to troll you.
They did it because of externally imposed rules that you and I, the stay at homes, refuse to react to. We want DXCC to be hard. Well, to a degree, so do I.
But, you all don't seem to care if life changes to make it harder. Or that it makes DXpeditioning much more expensive than it once was. The pain we are willing to inflict on others to preserve the illusion of yesterday is immense. I don't agree with that one. I want a healthy DX program. By contrast, one that is a sucker's game; that is impossible if you started after 2006 has no future. Worse, any of those under 40 that read the tea leaves as I do will quietly leave if we all, the ones that "got ours" in the 1990s, refuse to bend.
You worry about too many grey beards in DXing? Maybe you should rethink your belief that the rules came on godly tablets.
RIB is a shot across some of our self-satisfied little bows. It is telling us in no uncertain terms, from those that actually do it, that the game has changed. And, they are trying mightily to square the circle between our fantasies of a world that hasn't changed with one that actually has.
Example: If we relented, selectively, on the /MM thing (for instance) just for three places: Bouvet, Peter I, and Heard, we could have annual expeditions to these places. Our stations would not change. The pileups would barely change. It doesn't really affect us.
What would change drastically is the cost we impose on other people. But oh, no, anything but that. Making life a little more bearable for those that subsidize us is the worst. Why, we might actually have more DX to actually work because the dollars are, in the end, limited. Can't have that one.
Similarly all this angst on where the DXpeditioner's butt resides does not affect you and I in the slightest. But, it does reduce the expense and reduces the ever-mounting environmental objections to dozens of places, including at least two of the three I mentioned. Plus others I didn't. It also, as the photo I posted demonstrates, increases the number of places we can DXpedition from. That's more than "convenience" in some parts of the world. It is my understanding that South Sandwich happens because of a particularly nasty little maneuver on Thule Island and only Thule Island. Well, what if RIB means more of the islands in the South Georgia chain became possible? Would that interest you? It would sure interest me.
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I would be in favor of changing the rules that a boat within 3 miles of an island is "on the island" or as good as.
I still see merit in this idea since it was first mentioned some time ago. To make it more amateur radio related, I would suggest the operators and their equipment must be within a subsquare (6 digit grid square) touching land. This would be roughly a 3 x 4 miles square.
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I would be in favor of changing the rules that a boat within 3 miles of an island is "on the island" or as good as.
I still see merit in this idea since it was first mentioned some time ago. To make it more amateur radio related, I would suggest the operators and their equipment must be within a subsquare (6 digit grid square) touching land. This would be roughly a 3 x 4 miles square.
What is so special about 3X4? 10 miles seems close enough.
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What is so special about 3X4? 10 miles seems close enough.
It's a pretty arbitrary choice in the end. The grid squares vary quite a bit in size as one heads closer to or farther from the equator.
Pick a mileage that is beyond or mostly beyond politics and we'd be OK. Some nation states claim a 200 mile "border" from their land mass over "their" oceans. But a lot still pick more reasonable distances. So, yeah, 10, 16, 32 from the nearest land, some distance like that could be picked to minimize political interreference with DXCC. I mean, we already have plenty of external politics interfering (EZ, P5 right now, at least), so if we are to bother with this, we may as well have a rule that recognizes that reality.
I wouldn't mind a rule that allowed us to activate P5 at 10, 15, 30 miles out (whatever won't get the boat captured Mayaguez style). Screw P5 and its paranoid little government. We don't have to put ourselves in thrall to them. We do so now out of choice.
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Pick a mileage that is beyond or mostly beyond politics and we'd be OK.
That was the intent, to keep it in the amateur radio realm as much as possible. Grid squares are used in the hobby already, so why not?
My apologies for the suggestion. Consider it withdrawn. ;D
I wouldn't mind a rule that allowed us to activate P5 at 10, 15, 30 miles out (whatever won't get the boat captured Mayaguez style).
I'm not sure it is a good idea to bypass government authorization for activation within or outside a country's sovereign territory or area under its jurisdiction, like the EEZ.
I think it's a change too far. We are now entering relativism, not good.
I'll preemptively apologize for this one as well. Consider it withdrawn. 8)
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I'm not sure it is a good idea to bypass government authorization for activation within or outside a country's sovereign territory or area under its jurisdiction, like the EEZ.
You're probably right. But I would be in favor of something because I am annoyed at us bowing down to these kinds of regimes.
We don't think much of these places in our daily life. Why let these guys dictate to us what our awards are going to be? If they don't want us, then one way or another, screw them.
Delete them, suspend them, declare some station in Hawaii a "ham radio government in exile." It's all the same with me. Some of those are no doubt better ideas that others. I'm just tired of letting these guys tell us our business. I don't think there is another hobby that lets itself be beholden to despots in this manner.
If they don't want us, why do we want them?
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But I would be in favor of something because I am annoyed at us bowing down to these kinds of regimes.
I understand the frustration, and I share in it.
That said, the best we can do is to establish a more flexible #1 HR criteria. I know what you're thinking: Here is the guy that is against relativism being a relativist himself. :o
For rocks in the middle of the ocean, delete them if no longer there, end of story. Actual countries are different, a deletion is not appropriate, unless they are no more.
We must accommodate the pride and honor of those "guilty" of being born at the right time, and "smart" enough of becoming a ham then. But, we must also nurture the hobby for future generations.
What's the solution then...no, workaround? Perhaps a review of the active DXCC list once a generation. Still imperfect, one may have become a ham at 10 while another at 70, life is not fair, and pursuing perfection in this matter is a guaranteed recipe for failure.
We need to make it achievable in a lifetime. Again, if you joined the hobby at 70 or 80, sorry, not much can be done in those cases. Time, effort, skills and investments will still be requirements, no participation trophy is being proposed here. We are just trying to mitigate limitations that are totally and completely out of our control.
I think I mentioned this in the past...I was very happy to attend one of those dinners at Dayton/Xenia where they call the people with the highest lifetime totals. I was sincerely happy for them, but it did nothing for my hobby pursuits. And why was that? Because I cannot change when I was born, became a ham, or when entities were deleted. It's simply not my reality and the reality of many in one or more generations.
OK, enough...or people will put me on ignore, not that I care, I just want to save them some work. ;D
Oh, yes...I hijacked the thread, sorry. Back to the original topic. I'm in favor of RIBs. ;) I decoded them a couple of times too, but no contact. :'(
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We need a word and "current" and "active" are already at least somewhat taken.
Let's define a category called "Available".
"Available" is defined as any DXCC that has had at least 20,000 QSOs over a 20 year period.
So, we now have four categories of HR and nobody loses anything:
Lowest rung: "Available Honor Roll". Work all "available" DXCCs such that no more than nine are outstanding.
Next rung: "Honor Roll". Work all DXCCs, whether "available" or not such that no more than nine are outstanding. Same as today.
Next rung: "Available #1 HR". Work all "available" DXCCs. None are unconfirmed.
Top rung: "#1 HR". Work all DXCCs. None are unconfirmed. Same as today.
None of these are participation trophies, either. They all of them represent a significant level of DX accomplishment and each is distinguished from the other in terms of difficulty (and prestige).
How to deal with DXCC Challenge I leave to others. But, in my long held view, most of the mischief, and heart ache come from #1 HR and somewhat from HR being the only top games in town.
The thing is, if you started after about 2006, the "available" rungs look achievable and the regular ones, less so. They are still there, but if people have something they believe they can actually get they are more likely to hang around.
Maybe, somewhat independent of this, we might also add a 2750 endorsement to the DXCC Challenge program. For a lot of hams, that is the most achievable version of the award. There are a lot of folks for whom 3000 just isn't realistic. We need something for folks who have cleared the 2500 bar to shoot for that is realistic.
In any case, 2750 is a real (if unofficially recognized) achievement. We have precedent for handing out endorsements for smaller increments as the achievements get greater. Just stick the 2750 medallion (which could look like the other four) over the current square and have it sit there until or unless 3000 is made. For most hams, 2750 would be the last one if they even get that far. But, it's more realistic for a lot of hams than 3000.
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RIB is yet another example of how liberalization is destroying things that once took actual work & dedication achieve. Great job guys, keep on leveling that playing field.
Tom KH0/KC0W
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RIB is yet another example of how liberalization is destroying things that once took actual work & dedication achieve. Great job guys, keep on leveling that playing field.
You're a real DXpeditoner that I respect. At least your position affects you, a DXpeditioner, personally. Please tell me what RIB is "destroying".
There are tiers to this. Have you been to places like South Georgia? Do you know what it would take to get you there, singly or in a group? Would a smaller human foot print help?
I can see why one might object to taking something like this to KH0, where operating restrictions are (I presume) minimal. You have been able to avoid nature preserves and the like? You have a regular house, right? It's more expensive (I presume) but that is it. Correct me if I have this wrong.
What is your answer for situations like Baker (which barely happened) where the team had to argue that verticals (yes verticals) would not be a danger to wildlife; protected birds in particular. What happens if next time the environmental pooh-bah says "no" because verticals, never mind spider beams, were too much? What if they decide they don't want laterines on these preserves anymore?
Would you then be less opposed, in such a case, to being able to park an RIB on a smaller sandbar where the official knows there are no birds and therefore can say "yes"? A sandbar that a team could not live on?
This is not an academic example. RIB came directly out of the experience on Baker in particular, but I've seen similar talk on other places that happen to be nature preserves we want to activate. Far too many, in fact.
It could be other places, too. What if we were allowed to do an RIB at Midway?
This is a shakedown cruise for more difficult operations, or so I gather. They may become more commonplace despite this, but they could be important for a lot of ever-tougher to activate places. So the Baker team that is doing this says.
Tell me what you think here.
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RIB is yet another example of how liberalization is destroying things that once took actual work & dedication achieve.
I think you said something to that effect on page 1, and I very much respect that, and not just because you were the one to say it. I'm fine with anybody that thinks the same way. I don't always get the same "benefit" though, but that's fine too. ;D
I think I already commented on how I see amateur radio: An RF signal from one antenna to another antenna...yes, include the TRX as well in there. In DXing, those antennas must be in the entities represented by their respective callsigns.
Everything else is personal customization IMO. A very simplistic description, I know, but works for me.