Absolutely no question in my mind that a reliance on the internet WILL come back to bite us on the a$$!!!When the power grid goes down, the internet, cell towers and repeaters won't do us much good. Make sure your radios have battery or generator back ups.
What if there is need for emergency communication and the Internet is up and running?
...So, it's not whether or not D-Star uses the Internet, it's whether or not your procedures and plans (that include D-Star) can accommodate falling back to a limited capacity.
We gotta use whatever works at the time.And be prepared to use/integrate the most basic, lowest tech tools available. They will be the least susceptible to failure may be the most reliable.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43328/u-s-satellites-are-being-attacked-everyday-according-to-space-force-general (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43328/u-s-satellites-are-being-attacked-everyday-according-to-space-force-general)
How many "seconds to midnight" are we at again these days?
"ARES: A solution desperately looking for a problem."
You can now add SHARES and AUXCOM to that list.
They are the "new" ARES.
Ohhh.... and "Bayfunk" and Winlink will save the world.
There are 3 levels participation in any emergency.
1) Those that train for, drill on, and participate on a level that serves their area. Pouring coffee for victims or filling sandbags serves the communities. Radio is often the last thing needed, but yet your there to step away from the shovel and pick up a mic if needed. Thats prepared emergency service.
2) Those that show up with little or no training and expect to be the boss. The lit-up crown vic group. Or the group with 8 antennas mounted on a hard hat. Or the "if I can't do radio, I am going home" group. Or the "ain't my job" group.
3) Those that find excuses not to help and work to destroy anything good the first 2 can do. Just like some have done here.
Question is, which one are you?
Those unprepared or underprepared are the most likely to fail. Even if you prepare for yourself, you're in a far better position than those in 2 and 3.
Or the "if I can't do radio, I am going home" group. Or the "ain't my job" group.
So when you are ask to leave. Do so graciously. Inform them where you will be if they need assistance later and head out.
So when you are ask to leave. Do so graciously. Inform them where you will be if they need assistance later and head out.
Actually, I have found that most organizations will NOT ask you to leave if you simply do the task they ask you to do. And that is group 1.
As to ARES, each is locally run by each ARES group. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. True of any groups in any large volunteer organization. Instead of condemning all groups, maybe it is time to look for the good ones and just write off the bad. I got lucky here...local group is a good one and well respected by county emergency government and law enforcement. While not needed often, we show up ready to do what is needed when asked.
So when you are ask to leave. Do so graciously. Inform them where you will be if they need assistance later and head out.
Actually, I have found that most organizations will NOT ask you to leave if you simply do the task they ask you to do. And that is group 1.
As to ARES, each is locally run by each ARES group. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. True of any groups in any large volunteer organization. Instead of condemning all groups, maybe it is time to look for the good ones and just write off the bad. I got lucky here...local group is a good one and well respected by county emergency government and law enforcement. While not needed often, we show up ready to do what is needed when asked.
I unfortunately have not had your experience with ARES. We have a group here that the EC was finally told by the EMA and Sheriff that he needed to remove the lettering or the light bar from his car. He got mad and quit being EC, club president, changed his ham call and doesn't talk on the repeater any more.
THe group to the west was made infamous by their stupidity with comments about keeping members in their assigned locations during a Public service operation by 'shooting them in the leg'. Yes, this went out in an EMAIL which got forwarded to the Sheriff, City police dept, FBI, and the organization that put on the event. Needless to say they are not doing that event any more. So yeah, not a lot of choices for a group to get behind around here. The tower I manage and maintain for another ham that's been discussed elsewhere on here has been slowly developing into a reasonably decent communications facility for ham radio and continues to grow in that regard.
As to ARES, each is locally run by each ARES group. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. True of any groups in any large volunteer organization. Instead of condemning all groups, maybe it is time to look for the good ones and just write off the bad. I got lucky here...local group is a good one and well respected by county emergency government and law enforcement. While not needed often, we show up ready to do what is needed when asked.
I unfortunately have not had your experience with ARES. We have a group here that the EC was finally told by the EMA and Sheriff that he needed to remove the lettering or the light bar from his car. He got mad and quit being EC, club president, changed his ham call and doesn't talk on the repeater any more.
I unfortunately have not had your experience with ARES. We have a group here that the EC was finally told by the EMA and Sheriff that he needed to remove the lettering or the light bar from his car. He got mad and quit being EC, club president, changed his ham call and doesn't talk on the repeater any more.
I don't even want to know why that guy thought he needed a light bar on his car.
I was an EC for 5 years, and never saw the need for that. Ever.
So, a question I pose is this: Is there excessive reliance newer technoligies that rely on the internet as support infrastructure? Is there too little reliance on cultivating hams to participate in basic simplex or repeater operation to provide needed communication in a disaster or emergency situation?
QuoteSo, a question I pose is this: Is there excessive reliance newer technoligies that rely on the internet as support infrastructure? Is there too little reliance on cultivating hams to participate in basic simplex or repeater operation to provide needed communication in a disaster or emergency situation?
YES
Also, reliance on incompatible proprietary technologies like Dstar and system Fusion should be eliminated.
The open source DMR project should be embraced as the standard. Interoperability is key in an emergency!
I never bought radios with either of the competing proprietary digital systems. I always thought it would lead to a mess and it it did. Ham radio was always traditionally "open source" and home brew anyway. Let's keep it that way!
One of the things I find interesting are the words people choose. This thread did not disappoint. Words and phrases like...component, sideways, step around, mission focus, comms, adaptability, back pedal, redundant, tactical, functionality, rogue actors, toolbox, worst case scenario, solution looking for a problem, go kit, cultivating.
One of the things I find interesting are the words people choose. This thread did not disappoint. Words and phrases like...component, sideways, step around, mission focus, comms, adaptability, back pedal, redundant, tactical, functionality, rogue actors, toolbox, worst case scenario, solution looking for a problem, go kit, cultivating.
One of the things I find interesting are the words people choose. This thread did not disappoint. Words and phrases like...component, sideways, step around, mission focus, comms, adaptability, back pedal, redundant, tactical, functionality, rogue actors, toolbox, worst case scenario, solution looking for a problem, go kit, cultivating.
I don't see what so special about a lot of what you quoted. Many are common terms used in engineering, some are opinion, some are more focused on working a plan like a business plan but with different goals.
Beats me what the fuss is.
Because the whole idea of EMCOMM is to be able to communicate when other stuff ain't working. You know...!!!!WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS!!!!!
God I hate that saying. But it's the truth in this case.
But that's why you have battery plants and generators and the like at your communications sites. And you link them by other means besides the Internet.
I have a toolbox at home. I use different tools for different jobs. Saying we should never use the internet is like saying that I can never use my hammer. Yes it's not suitable for some jobs, but it is useful for others. I see the Internet the same way. It's a tool. What if there is need for emergency communication and the Internet is up and running? Do we ignore it because it's not "Classic" ham radio? That's foolish. I would say be able to use simplex, repeaters, Internet, whatever else is available . .
I have a toolbox at home. I use different tools for different jobs. Saying we should never use the internet is like saying that I can never use my hammer. Yes it's not suitable for some jobs, but it is useful for others. I see the Internet the same way. It's a tool. What if there is need for emergency communication and the Internet is up and running? Do we ignore it because it's not "Classic" ham radio? That's foolish. I would say be able to use simplex, repeaters, Internet, whatever else is available . .
That is precisely the point.
Ham radios and operators are tools for use in an emergency, to rely on only one method is a foolish endeavor.
How good will the internet or even repeater towers be if they are burned up in a forest fire?
Many of us hams do get training in disater communications, and are members of ares and other e response organizations.
As to other posts" politely asking them to leave"
If they are not interfering with operations or placing themselves or anyone else in danger there is absolutely no reason to ask them to leave
( with the possible exception of vloggers at a fatality scene)
As i mentioned in another posts
If they cant be utilized in the communication itself they are still a valuable asset if they can observe and write.
Writing down what they hear and see is often from different angles and they may see or hear something others might miss.
An investigator often has to piece a complicated puzzle together to avoid purely circumstantial evidence.
So an eyewitness is vital to getting a clear picture of the situation.
But i do agree on one point.
If they say that if i cant do radio i wont help! The yes ask them to leave.