eHam

eHam Forums => DXing => Topic started by: W6GX on October 30, 2014, 08:30:31 AM

Title: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on October 30, 2014, 08:30:31 AM
Please post your success and heartbreak stories here.  GL to all.

Currently I'm in a school bus with fifty fourth graders.  Knowing what the pileups will be like on the first day I don't miss my radio, yet.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on October 30, 2014, 08:52:03 AM
My Optibeam was just delivered by the shipper

I'm in work 12hr shift till Saturday evening then minding the baby till Tuesday morning and back in work Wednesday at 7am, for 4 more 12hr shifts,

Still havn't worked out how to build and install the antenna reinstall my 40/30m rotary dipole, and try to actually get time to try to work the guys ????

I'm not going to miss these guys like I did E3 no matter what I have to do to get a single QSO,
Trevor
EI2GLB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 30, 2014, 09:00:58 AM
As I said elsewhere, my array is pointed, radio and amp are on, clusters set, alarms tested. Bring it.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on October 30, 2014, 09:03:14 AM
Looks like they have a 20m station up and running for their night

I see my 20m prop peaking around 00:30 GMT this evening.   I may give them a call then but the first day will most likely be a total madhouse.


Mark N1UK


Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: M0TTB on October 30, 2014, 09:04:50 AM
Please post your success and heartbreak stories here.  GL to all.

Currently I'm in a school bus with fifty fourth graders. 

73,
Jonathan W6GX

If a pile-up breaks out, you'll probably have more mature company than us
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: M0TTB on October 30, 2014, 09:08:01 AM
Looks like they have a 20m station up and running for their night

I see my 20m prop peaking around 00:30 GMT this evening.   I may give them a call then but the first day will most likely be a total madhouse.


Mark N1UK




Note the qrg... I ignored the spot as soon as I saw 14.195. Nobody, especially a EU based dxped, would use that qrg.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2NL on October 30, 2014, 09:35:07 AM
I will be excited if I can simply hear them from here!

73, Dave KH6/N2NL
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 30, 2014, 10:02:35 AM
Hey, if it turns out I can't work them, I think I may have to perform a DXorcism!

http://hamhijinks.com/dxorcism-rids-station-spooks/ (http://hamhijinks.com/dxorcism-rids-station-spooks/)

(http://69.89.31.184/~hamhijin/hamhijinkscom/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/tower_blessing2.jpg)

Seriously, this is the funniest thing I've read all week!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on October 30, 2014, 11:33:29 AM
Hey, if it turns out I can't work them, I think I may have to perform a DXorcism!

http://hamhijinks.com/dxorcism-rids-station-spooks/ (http://hamhijinks.com/dxorcism-rids-station-spooks/)

(http://69.89.31.184/~hamhijin/hamhijinkscom/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/tower_blessing2.jpg)

Seriously, this is the funniest thing I've read all week!


He picked the right time because the Pope just blessed all the Exorcists. 

However, his problem isn't Lucifer. His problem is using any antenna made by MFJ/Cushcraft!!  Also, if he's still using a Cantenna his amplifier isn't big enough.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: V47JA on October 30, 2014, 12:55:13 PM
Hi,

The pileups on 17 and 20 meters are an unruley mess. I'll wait a few days for the feeding frenzy to end, and in a week they will be "old hat".

73,

John V47JA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 30, 2014, 01:04:51 PM
In the log on 15 CW (assuming it wasn't a pirate, of course). Now where's my #$%@ing QSL ;D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on October 30, 2014, 01:13:09 PM
I just worked him on 20 phone.  His signal is a true 58.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on October 30, 2014, 01:43:40 PM
In the log on 15 CW (assuming it wasn't a pirate, of course). Now where's my #$%@ing QSL ;D

Congrats on Honor Roll Peter!!  I listened for a while on 15, and decided to wait for Monday.  This weekend aint gonna get any better.  The usual scumbags are there making QRM. Plus, I am still happy from working the XX9 ;D.

By the way, A BUNCH of DXers worked the 5R on 28.035 without listening.  They wont be in the FT4TA log, that's for sure.
Happens every time. hi hi

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on October 30, 2014, 01:51:38 PM
I may have a little time tonight or tomorrow... otherwise this weekend. Congrats to everyone who worked them so far..
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on October 30, 2014, 02:13:43 PM
Quote
n the log on 15 CW (assuming it wasn't a pirate, of course). Now where's my #$%@ing QSL Grin

I heard you get him..great job.


I got him about 30 minutes later. I thought he came back to me and I waited for his second call which was then completely obliterated by loud lids on his frequency. I dropped my call back in once again and he came back to me with my report. Now I have the long wait for the on line log..hi hi


73 Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU4B on October 30, 2014, 02:14:33 PM
Please post your success and heartbreak stories here.  GL to all.

Currently I'm in a school bus with fifty fourth graders. 

73,
Jonathan W6GX

If a pile-up breaks out, you'll probably have more mature company than us

 ;D ;D ;D

I'm scared to turn on the radio!  ;D

Congrats W2IRT!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KG9SF on October 30, 2014, 02:29:29 PM
I just worked him on 20 SSB.  Good op.  Zoo.

Amazing the number of folks who don't know what listening up means.  There ought to be a license endorsement required for working DX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3TMT on October 30, 2014, 03:17:41 PM
Didn't take long for the idiots to show up.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on October 30, 2014, 03:24:25 PM
Didn't take long for the idiots to show up.

Never does.

Got home at 22:00, worked 'em on 15m cw at 22:20, spent half that time waiting for the idiots to stop zero beat tuning and calling.

Amazing the number of people calling 2-5 up, when he is working 1-1.5 up  :P
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on October 30, 2014, 03:42:20 PM
Hi:

Good to see that some of us are getting thru, Peter (W2IRT) and I thought I heard Jonathan (W6GX) getting thru on 15m CW. My other call (VE3DMJ) should be in the log and that will also put me on the honor roll along with Peter, Congrats to all...

Conditions seem pretty good even though the SF is falling....

73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on October 30, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
I just got him on 20m ssb.......that was a slog. I am so glad that I bought the Voice Keyer last week.

That is 337/329


Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on October 30, 2014, 04:29:36 PM
ATNO #306.  What a slug and LID fest on 20m SSB.  But the weirdest thing happened.  At 2320z I started to hear him work W6's and W7's.  A few calls later I was in the log.  I think at that moment the propagation had shifted west.

I also heard him on 15m CW but he was very weak.  So I had stayed on 20m SSB and endured (and won) the slug fest :)  I didn't work him on 15m CW.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K7KB on October 30, 2014, 04:31:25 PM
Yay!!! Worked them on 20M Phone. I heard Jon (W6GX) work him and I tried calling him right after but he went QRX for about 5 minutes. Just thought I would stay on the same frequency and as soon as he came back, I nailed him :)

John K7KB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on October 30, 2014, 04:34:45 PM
Well done guys,

Hope the pile ups will have died by the time I get QRV,

Trevor
EI2GLB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on October 30, 2014, 05:01:54 PM
Well done guys,

Hope the pile ups will have died by the time I get QRV,

Thanks.  If I were you I would try to assemble the Optibeam at night and get it up as soon as you can.  Yes I have done antenna work at night :)  GL.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 30, 2014, 06:13:54 PM
Didn't take too long on 20 Phone either. Propagation was on the way out to the East Coast and I snared him after about 15 minutes of calling. I always get through quicker on phone than on CW, but I prefer CW pileups. Go figure. That also put me on the Phone Honor Roll--earned two plaques in two calls. How 'bout that, eh? Won't happen for a long time on CW, though!

I was frankly shocked at two things. One, how amazing their signal was on 15 earlier this afternoon, and two, why they were only worked stateside, when clearly they had propagation to Europe on 20 as well as NA. Not that I'm complaining in the slightest, of course!! Next big priority is bagging them on RTTY, and bandfills in general.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KY6R on October 30, 2014, 07:08:01 PM
Worked them a few minutes ago - 20M SSB for #334 / 339

Now I have 6 more to go to get to HR #1.

Will post that Meme on Facebook . . .
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on October 30, 2014, 07:16:34 PM
Quote
n the log on 15 CW (assuming it wasn't a pirate, of course). Now where's my #$%@ing QSL Grin

I heard you get him..great job.


I got him about 30 minutes later. I thought he came back to me and I waited for his second call which was then completely obliterated by loud lids on his frequency. I dropped my call back in once again and he came back to me with my report. Now I have the long wait for the on line log..hi hi


73 Mark N1UK

I heard that QSO Mark!  WTG.  Shouldn't be a problem in the log.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on October 30, 2014, 07:39:37 PM
20m ssb in the log.

30m RTTY isn't going quite as well  :P

Getting loud, but the pileup is deep...and as wide as the band will allow.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 30, 2014, 07:44:29 PM
20m ssb in the log.

30m RTTY isn't going quite as well  :P

Getting loud, but the pileup is deep...and as wide as the band will allow.

Wider. I heard two lids calling above 150. One a "5", one a "9."
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VK3HJ on October 30, 2014, 08:00:04 PM
Would have been workable a bit earlier on 20 m phone, but obviously the propagation is very good to NA, so no chance.
Prop charts suggest they will be very strong this evening and overnight on 20 and down, so will have to battle it out with Europe then.
I managed three bands with FT5GA, but I now have considerably more firepower so should be able to tick this one off the list before too long.
Still a darned long way off HR though...

73 es GL,
Luke VK3HJ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6DXO on October 30, 2014, 08:11:50 PM
He's pretty loud now (03:00UTC) on 20M SSB.

Worked him up 7...only took a few minutes.

#330  ;D

Gl de harry, W6DXO
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2NL on October 30, 2014, 08:38:44 PM
They were peaking up nicely here in Hawaii and actually asked for West Coast only, surprising for the 1st night.  When he asked for West Coast - it was still total chaos of a pileup (mostly West Coast calling) and they just went QRT to continue with antenna setup without working anyone.

They are almost antipodal from KH6 so they should be workable on at least one band from here, once the minions make it into the log and the pile dies down a bit.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 30, 2014, 09:10:16 PM
I managed three bands with FT5GA, but I now have considerably more firepower so should be able to tick this one off the list before too long.
Still a darned long way off HR though...

You'll do it eventually, Luke. Seemed like only recently I was battling for 300 and HR was a distant dream that I doubt I'd make before next cycle. Keep at it. Granted it's an awful lot more difficult from your geographic location, coupled with the power limit of 400W, but keep at it and good luck. You should be able to bag Tromelin fairly easily with low power once the initial surge has subsided.

Contact the pilot and remind him that VKs are out there calling, too, and to request the team look that-a-way upon occasion, when propagation is forecast to be strong.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: M0TTB on October 31, 2014, 02:44:26 AM
One call on 10m ssb ...helps when they haven't been spotted, 3rd in their 10m log. Somewhat lively EU pile-up now, looks spectacular on the fishfinder.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on October 31, 2014, 04:48:43 AM
Spent 2 hours at it last night after work,

Hope to get a few more tonight and plan an all nighter on Saturday to get it ready to install on Sunday,

Have a baby sitter arranged to mind the baby  ;D



Well done guys,

Hope the pile ups will have died by the time I get QRV,

Thanks.  If I were you I would try to assemble the Optibeam at night and get it up as soon as you can.  Yes I have done antenna work at night :)  GL.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on October 31, 2014, 04:52:09 AM
Trevor:

GL with the new beam. It should be a very good performer and you will have no problems working Tromelin.

73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on October 31, 2014, 04:54:58 AM
Take your time with the beam. I cleaned all the connections and put Penetrox on the joints.  I had also heard of the boom coming loose so I used blue loctite on the boom bolts just to make sure.


Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on October 31, 2014, 06:24:41 AM
Wow, easy QSO on 30m long path.  I was waiting for him this morning with the antenna in the southwest and heard him come up and call CQ on 10.115.  No pileup, no spots.  He even had trouble raising a pile, with repeated CQs.  1314Z.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on October 31, 2014, 06:26:38 AM
Impossible to get Penetrox over here or anything like it,

Pirelli do something like it but its very hard got,

I have a tilt over tower so checking everything once in a while isn't as big of a job as you might have with yours,

Thanks for the tips might put some loctite on the bolts as I can get that here easy,

Trevor

Take your time with the beam. I cleaned all the connections and put Penetrox on the joints.  I had also heard of the boom coming loose so I used blue loctite on the boom bolts just to make sure.


Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VK3HJ on October 31, 2014, 07:17:20 AM
Pileup on 17 m CW was 40 kHz wide! Glad I got in early when it was only 20 kHz wide...
Big signal on 30 m here. That's two bands. Not bad for first day. I will sleep well tonight!
Check out this pileup on 17 m.
73,
Luke VK3HJ
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=708763629212011&set=p.708763629212011&type=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=708763629212011&set=p.708763629212011&type=1)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on October 31, 2014, 07:22:31 AM
Vincent has been only asking for NA for the past 20 minutes on 10 meter SSB.  It wasn't hard once he limited the callers to NA.  Conditions are very good.

Good luck!

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA8UEG on October 31, 2014, 07:54:32 AM
Got them after a few calls last night on 20 SSB. It was great no QRM, stations calling on their frequency, frequency police, nothing!! I'm sure by now all the squirrels have found the nest and it's a mess. Only need to get them on CW plus 17 & 12 SSB or CW then back to rebuilding my boat anchor. Like others, if it's a mess I'll wait a few days and hope it settles down.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: M0TTB on October 31, 2014, 08:48:35 AM
Vincent has been only asking for NA for the past 20 minutes on 10 meter SSB.  It wasn't hard once he limited the callers to NA.  Conditions are very good.

Good luck!

Chris  NU1O

The monk was up there as well on 10 ssb working a few W's, even heard a west coast guy go through. Although he didn't specifically call W's, he did seem to get more excited when he had a partial call of one.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on October 31, 2014, 09:05:41 AM
Congrats you guys on working the FT4, I started to feel left out, hihi.  He had a very good signal my morning on 30m Long Path.
Man what a pileup, I waited for the prop to die down so I was only competing with W7/W6 and the rest of the planet to the west.
Finally watched him start working up high and moving higher, found a clear spot and bagged him.  New band for me, already confirmed
since 1991.
Have fun guys!  Time for work.

Henry
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on October 31, 2014, 09:09:21 AM
Didn't even realize they were on but I'll try when I get home tonight. #312 for me.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on October 31, 2014, 09:11:26 AM
I've heard them well but only on SSB.  They're on CW on bands where I don't have good propagation.  Missed 15 CW yesterday due to being at work.  Hope to hear some good old-fashioned 10/15/20 CW soon.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N9AVY on October 31, 2014, 09:36:30 AM
They're 59 here in Northern Illinois on both 10/12m.   

Problem is the "Kilocycle Kops" are causing more problems by saying "Up, Up, Up !".  These guys are part of the problem rather than the solution.  Because they keep talking on DX frequency, stations calling can't here responses from DX so they keep calling and that generates a BIGGER pileup !  All the Kilocycle Kops are doing is getting in way and slowing down the pileup.

As long as I been a ham, this has been a problem, but it only seems to get worse. It's gone steadily down hill with the big, rare DX locations.  On 12m this morning, things deteriorated into name calling and other negative stuff.  One guy called another a "CBer" and the bands are really turning into "Children's Bands" with this sort of behavior.  These "Kilocycle Kops" are operating illegally because they don't ID, which is a violation according to Part 97.

If you're guilty of being a "Kilocycle Kop", perhaps you should examine your motives for QRMing the DX  or just join the group on 14335 !

End of rant.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on October 31, 2014, 09:39:24 AM
Nothing but noise at this QTH. It's not going to be as easy for some of us. Just trying to keep the thread realistic for readers with smaller stations and antennas.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 31, 2014, 09:46:24 AM
Yes, I agree. With nearly over 5kW ERP and a Yagi at 85' I'm not being heard even on his 12m QSX--he was working a deep pile on one frequency, I was there and listening, calling with 1500W out the pipe and not a chance. 10m was fairly easy this morning, but 12....not so much. A 25kHz deep SSB pile, with a solid wall of Euro QRM and cops making it impossible for now. I'll try it next week, but I doubt it will be better. No way they're going to satisfy worldwide demand in 12 days, that's absolute.

Glad I got in when I did, cuz this is turning ugly fast. The problem is he's calling NA and 80% of the callers are Europeans who just won't STFU. I don't envy the ops in the slightest. They're trying their best to limit it to NA but no dice....EU just won't stop.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on October 31, 2014, 09:57:57 AM
Nothing but noise at this QTH. It's not going to be as easy for some of us. Just trying to keep the thread realistic for readers with smaller stations and antennas.

I'm glad I spent the effort to build a triband wire beam just for this operation.  They're adequately loud on it.  They are generally undetectable on my old doublet.  I am not confident of working them but at least I might have a shot.  Good luck to the little pistols.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on October 31, 2014, 10:02:32 AM
I'm glad I spent the effort to build a triband wire beam just for this operation. 

Wow. Well, I do pretty well a lot of the time, if I stick it out. What I lack in equipment I make up for with patience.  ;)

First things first though, I need to hear the person at the other end for starters ...
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on October 31, 2014, 10:03:50 AM
On 12m I couldn't hear the EU callers.  They get covered up by the stronger NA callers.  However I could tell the Op was having difficulties hearing calls.  Like you said 10m was easy compared to 12m.  The pileups will eventually thin out with time.  I will try again later this afternoon.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on October 31, 2014, 10:12:21 AM
I'm glad I spent the effort to build a triband wire beam just for this operation. 

Wow. Well, I do pretty well a lot of the time, if I stick it out. What I lack in equipment I make up for with patience.  ;)

First things first though, I need to hear the person at the other end for starters ...

What I don't understand is why they're not louder.  3B9FR, 3B8CF, 5R8M and FR/DJ7RJ have all been very loud on the same bands over the last week.  I wouldn't have thought the dip in the SFI would've made that much difference.  I wonder if they are having some sort of trouble.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on October 31, 2014, 10:16:30 AM
Same mess on 12 meters here but he's no longer asking for just NA so it's worldwide QRM.  The frequency cops aren't only on SSB and CW but they are very bad on 15 RTTY.

Well, I have worked them on 10 and 20 SSB so I may take the weekend off.  I'll work them on CW when they use 10, 15 or 20 and that's all I really need.

Good luck to those who need this for ATNO.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on October 31, 2014, 10:17:49 AM
I'm glad I spent the effort to build a triband wire beam just for this operation. 

Wow. Well, I do pretty well a lot of the time, if I stick it out. What I lack in equipment I make up for with patience.  ;)

First things first though, I need to hear the person at the other end for starters ...

What I don't understand is why they're not louder.  3B9FR, 3B8CF, 5R8M and FR/DJ7RJ have all been very loud on the same bands over the last week.  I wouldn't have thought the dip in the SFI would've made that much difference.  I wonder if they are having some sort of trouble.

They are very loud here.  What band or bands are you referring to?

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on October 31, 2014, 10:20:10 AM
I'm glad I spent the effort to build a triband wire beam just for this operation. 

Wow. Well, I do pretty well a lot of the time, if I stick it out. What I lack in equipment I make up for with patience.  ;)

First things first though, I need to hear the person at the other end for starters ...

What I don't understand is why they're not louder.  3B9FR, 3B8CF, 5R8M and FR/DJ7RJ have all been very loud on the same bands over the last week.  I wouldn't have thought the dip in the SFI would've made that much difference.  I wonder if they are having some sort of trouble.

They are very loud here.  What band or bands are you referring to?



10 and 20 meters SSB.  No doubt they are quite loud if you have a FB antenna system.  I was drawing a distinction between the signals I'd heard from FT, and from those other nearby entities, on the same bands/antenna in recent days.  Relative loudness, not absolute, I guess.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 31, 2014, 10:21:33 AM
I will try again later this afternoon.

Propagation is already going out to the east coast on 12. Band will be closed to NA this afternoon (our time). Until the op restricts callers by continent again (and makes it stick), only folks with stacks and guys with 5k+ are getting in the log at this point. Probably the first DXpedition I will not get on more than 4 or 5 bands, given their rarity, distance and the fact we fight the EU wall on every band all the time. 100W/wire guys....well, good luck. Probably not happening anywhere except the last few days on 15 or 20.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA4IIF on October 31, 2014, 10:40:47 AM
From NW Florida I made contact for an ATNO today (~1700Z) via 10 meter SSB.  :D Operating with a hexagonal beam and about 600 watts, I got through after I made about a dozen or so calls. The FT4TA operator and signal (~S 5/6) were good. I don't normally have a problem making contact with that area in the Indian Ocean near the east coast of Africa. If I can contact FT4TA via CW, I'll be content.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AA6YQ on October 31, 2014, 11:13:54 AM
The op on 10m SSB this morning was making several QSOs on the same QSX before moving on. He also seemed to prefer frequencies near even multiples of 5 KHz, e.g. 28490, 28495, 28500, 28505.

It took about an hour to get through, with 3 elements at 80' and ~1200 watts. #332 on 10m.

        73,

               Dave, AA6YQ (near Boston, MA)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on October 31, 2014, 12:10:09 PM
Worked them on 10m ssb from the mobile while driving home from work @18:12, but I don't think the op got the /m part.

He was calling for NA, and reminded a CT1 that called of that, and informed him he was NIL.

Got home about 18:20, and spent 40 minutes in the 15m RTTY pileup before I got through.

Good luck to all.

73, Tom
N5MOA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on October 31, 2014, 12:34:03 PM
Anyone have any info on when they will start uploading the log into ClubLog?

I've got them on 20M SSB and 10/15M CW. Would like to rest for a little while and see my call in their log....then hit it again next week, mostly interested in 80M.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AB4ZT on October 31, 2014, 12:57:34 PM
Since I am leaving town for a week starting Weds., I was worried my time would run out before success.  Well, worry no more - my first call to the dxpedition netted me #316.  10 M CW with a tri-bander up 35 feet and 400 watts.  I think being in Florida helped - a lot.

Helps make up for the big fat zero I rang up for the VK9X.

73, and good luck!

Richard, AB4ZT
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on October 31, 2014, 12:58:10 PM
Just worked them twice within the last hour on 12m SSB then 10m CW. ATNO for me....#316.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on October 31, 2014, 12:58:26 PM
The website suggests they aren't going to upload during the DXpedition.  Maybe too remote, no reliable satellite phone, who knows?

They say "if you're not sure, work it again".

http://www.tromelin2014.com/en/online-log/
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on October 31, 2014, 01:11:32 PM
The website suggests they aren't going to upload during the DXpedition.  Maybe too remote, no reliable satellite phone, who knows?

They say "if you're not sure, work it again".

http://www.tromelin2014.com/en/online-log/

OK, thanks. I have been spoiled of late with instant gratification as far as DXpedition logs!

I did find this on http://www.dx-world.net/ft4ta-tromelin-2014/

"Log uploads via internet/sat phone on Tromelin made possible by a grant from DX-World.net"

Hope that hold true. I hate to repeat band contacts just to be safe.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on October 31, 2014, 01:11:54 PM
The website suggests they aren't going to upload during the DXpedition.  Maybe too remote, no reliable satellite phone, who knows?

They say "if you're not sure, work it again".

http://www.tromelin2014.com/en/online-log/

That should help keep the pileups big and unruly as folks get 5 or 6 insurance q's for each band and mode!

I heard them a bit on 12m but weak here on the dipole. I'm listening to them now on 30m. This weekend I'm going to dedicate as much time as I can to getting them in the log. Tonight is kinda shot but should have time Sat/Sun. I've been hearing them a lot, so that's a good sign. I suspect within the next couple of days I should get in there.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on October 31, 2014, 01:20:02 PM
Worked them on 10m ssb from the mobile while driving home from work @18:12, but I don't think the op got the /m part.

He was calling for NA, and reminded a CT1 that called of that, and informed him he was NIL.

Got home about 18:20, and spent 40 minutes in the 15m RTTY pileup before I got through.

Good luck to all.

73, Tom
N5MOA

Hey Tom, I heard that whole Q, including him asking you for a confirmation on the last letter of you suffix.  That's pretty sweet from your mobile.  I had you on the speaker so my wife could hear the FT4 and also heard him reprimand the CT, giving him a geography lesson.  "I was calling NA, you're not in NA!  You're not in the log!"  Good lesson in how to control a pileup.  My wife and I looked at each other and got a good laugh out of that one.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on October 31, 2014, 01:26:08 PM
The website suggests they aren't going to upload during the DXpedition.  Maybe too remote, no reliable satellite phone, who knows?

They say "if you're not sure, work it again".

http://www.tromelin2014.com/en/online-log/


All I see is this:

"Neither the pilots, nor the QSL Manager will have access to the log during the operation. Useless to drown them under e-mails. In case of doubt, please reiterate the contact."

I read that they will upload, just don't ask for corrections until after they are home.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on October 31, 2014, 01:27:06 PM
Just got up from a nap and tuned into 18.130 to see what luck I'd have. All I hear is DX cops, people telling other people they are morons, tuning up on frequency, and people calling on top of the DX station (which I still have yet to hear). Is this the best Ham radio has to offer?

May be best for my sanity to avoid this mess and move on to the next one.  :-\
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD0UN on October 31, 2014, 01:33:35 PM
For whatever reason, the pileups on 17 and 12 have stretched from the station's frequency to the upper limits of the band.   This has caused a lot of unintended grief from other operators causing QRM on the DX frequency from those who have been pushed out of those segments. 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on October 31, 2014, 01:35:21 PM
Hey Tom, I heard that whole Q, including him asking you for a confirmation on the last letter of you suffix.  That's pretty sweet from your mobile.  I had you on the speaker so my wife could hear the FT4 and also heard him reprimand the CT, giving him a geography lesson.  "I was calling NA, you're not in NA!  You're not in the log!"  Good lesson in how to control a pileup.  My wife and I looked at each other and got a good laugh out of that one.


I didn't flip over to see how many were calling on top of me, I suspect a few.  :P

I went into a river bottom in the middle of all that, thought he was going to lose me for a minute there.

Probably have to try again /m, I'm pretty sure he didn't log it as such.

The CT exchange was good for a chuckle, and good to hear a team stick to their guns like that.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: MM0NDX on October 31, 2014, 01:39:32 PM
Hi

Yes, DX-World will pay for all sat phone usage on Tromelin. This is mostly for log uploads, but also to relay info to the team.

Not confirmed yet, but first log upload later today. No time given.

They've certainly been making good use of the propagation to NA. At one point all stations working NA with EU et al waiting in the wings. Good first 24hrs for them

GL all

73 Col, MM0NDX
DX-World.net

The website suggests they aren't going to upload during the DXpedition.  Maybe too remote, no reliable satellite phone, who knows?

They say "if you're not sure, work it again".

http://www.tromelin2014.com/en/online-log/

OK, thanks. I have been spoiled of late with instant gratification as far as DXpedition logs!

I did find this on http://www.dx-world.net/ft4ta-tromelin-2014/

"Log uploads via internet/sat phone on Tromelin made possible by a grant from DX-World.net"

Hope that hold true. I hate to repeat band contacts just to be safe.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on October 31, 2014, 02:16:11 PM
Now there's so many people pissed off they are jamming 18.130 with arguments. Unreal.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AJ8MH on October 31, 2014, 02:36:55 PM
He went QRX on 18.130 at an S-3 and came back a few minutes later 59+.  Must have been a pirate, but a good op!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VK3HJ on October 31, 2014, 03:24:03 PM
Worked them on 40 m this morning quite easily.
He was very strong, stronger than all the LIDs and Tuners Upper, and DQRMers on his frequency.
Man, what a zoo!
I will look at SSB later, and RTTY at the end.
3 bands in the log in first 24 hrs is a very nice bag for me, and promises more Q's by end of exped.
73 es GL,
Luke VK3HJ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on October 31, 2014, 03:26:10 PM
I'm hearing them now on 40m cw, but mighty weak.

Still about 1 1/2 hr to sunset here, kinda surprised to hear them this early.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on October 31, 2014, 03:35:46 PM
I have a tribander that is popular with contesters.  Not surprisingly I worked them on the bands where I have resonant elements and gain (10m, 15m, and 20m).   I have no luck yet on the WARC bands.  This is proof that the extra few dbs of gain really count in a big pileup.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on October 31, 2014, 03:49:31 PM
Nope, NOT here.  I tried for a few minutes last evening on 15 CW around the time Peter worked them, but no joy.  Today is a DAMNED JOKE, PLUS, for some reason all the bands are VERY noisy now.  Add the idiots, and its not fun.  I will hold up until next week, and hopefully the QRN will go away.  I can fight the idiots, but not while I am having trouble hearing the DX as well.

As someone else said here earlier, they are NOT very loud.  When I worked the XX9 on 10/29, they were quite a bit louder than the FT4 was/is, yesterday and today. (Go Figure......)  Usually, that part of the world is a chip shot for me, but they are weak on the dipole as well as the vertical.....(???)  Hope things pick up.  I know we have a cold front coming through tomorrow with showers and thunder, so next midweek should be much better. (I hope......... :()

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE8EV on October 31, 2014, 04:24:28 PM
It's killing me waiting for the logs to come up online.  I think I worked them yesterday on 20m, they were weak as water and down in the noise and after listening to static for an hour I probably just imagined the whole thing...

I tried them on 30m RTTY around their sunset but I wasn't expecting much there, it was a zoo and they never really got strong enough for more than about 10% print.

Congrats to those that got through, I'm hoping for better luck tonight!

73
John VE8EV

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on October 31, 2014, 04:34:10 PM
 I worked them on 17 SSB earlier today. Waiting for the log with the rest of you.  :P
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AE5X on October 31, 2014, 05:02:04 PM
Woo hoo - just got them on 80 CW.

John AE5X
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4NYY on October 31, 2014, 05:22:07 PM
Can't hear them.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on October 31, 2014, 05:25:58 PM
Can't hear them.

Welcome to my world. I spent a lot of hours today just trying to hear them on any of the spotted frequencies - forget about working them for now. Nada zippo zilch.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on October 31, 2014, 06:30:05 PM
Five Qs today.  30, 17, 12 and 10m in both SSB and CW.  In 50 years of hamming I've had one QSO (20m CW) with Tromelin previously, so this is fat city for me.  Never worked FT before on SSB.  Figured it was worth finding a mic for this one.  I made more SSB QSOs today (3) than I normally make in a year.  

30m was a cakewalk, I was there when he came up CQing.  10 SSB was easy and 17 SSB wasn't bad.  10 CW and 12 SSB were tough.  OTOH, 40, 80 and 160 are going to be tough to impossible from here, particularly with my work schedule.  Morning long path doesn't look good as there is no grey line or darkness overlap.  It was daylight on both ends of the path when I worked him on 30m this morning.

Antennas are only 3 el tribanders at modest height.  You guys with wires and verticals may be sucking hind teat for awhile.  Something with at least a little gain is mandatory for this kind of zoo.  Sounds like EU is having a tough time with sociopaths.

Keep the faith, it'll get better...
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on October 31, 2014, 06:46:07 PM
You might have to call in sick one evening, Larry.

I'm hearing them on 40m and 80m this evening, I'm sure you can.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on October 31, 2014, 06:54:41 PM
You might have to call in sick one evening, Larry.

I'm hearing them on 40m and 80m this evening, I'm sure you can.

You just might have a point there.  I discussed that with the wife tonight, as a matter of fact.  To top it off, it's supposed to be 70 deg tomorrow.  A rare treat for November 1 when you live at 9000 ft ASL!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA2VUY on October 31, 2014, 07:10:10 PM
His ssb xmit freq of 7082 was very well behaved tonight, there was only one period of intentional qrm that lasted about 2 minutes and only a few vfo problems.  Pretty remarkable.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on October 31, 2014, 07:15:32 PM
Must be nice, Larry. It's 59 deg now, supposed to drop to 41 deg by morning.

I worked them (or a slim) when they came back to 80m cw @23:55z, right at my sunset, 549.

They got weaker after that, but peaked back up to a 579 at their sunrise @01:40z.

Still holding a 539 right now 02:10z.

40m ssb has been a 58 or so since them came up, but I don't feel like fighting the  horde on 40 ssb right now.

All I have for 80 and 40 is inverted-L's.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W9XX on October 31, 2014, 07:28:54 PM
I thought I would lay low on the low bands for now. But after working 12 hrs I need to hear some radio. 
 So I get ready to try on 40 ssb.Then the lids.Then the blood pressure. Kept on calling.After a 1 hr finally worked them.
So I looked on there site and looked at the bandplan. I went to 30m.Boom  ther they are calling cq and 2nd call.   Blood pressure is down and no lids/QRM on 30.IS THAT NICE.
No work Sun Mon Tue and Weds. I will be looking on 10m and rtty and 80 and I will be done.
 Not sure on 80 as I have not heard them at all.
Might have to go down by Gene and throw my call out on his Vertical.
I will bring the Brats and hamburgers.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on October 31, 2014, 07:38:26 PM
Weak here on 40 and 30. Probably will try the higher bands tomorrow.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on October 31, 2014, 07:44:28 PM
Pretty weak here as well on 40 and 30. Did try a bit on both but just too far down. I have more time avail Sat/Sun so we'll see. Might stick it out a little longer here tonight.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 31, 2014, 07:59:29 PM
Pretty weak here as well on 40 and 30. Did try a bit on both but just too far down. I have more time avail Sat/Sun so we'll see. Might stick it out a little longer here tonight.
Very, very light here on 40, impossible on 80. Got him on 40 after about 3 hours, despite being right on his QSX many times with all the hamsters spinning. I always thought I had a pretty good station, but I've been schooled today, that's for sure!

The more I think about this, the more I'd like to get a remote RX site in a quieter part of the state. My noise level here is beyond industrial on 80, always S9 to 20-over. It's not internal, either.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W9XX on October 31, 2014, 08:08:57 PM
Peter lets trade.  Power plant to the east 1 mile. high power lines 1/4 both north and south. Then all the qrn/qrm in the house. ;D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on October 31, 2014, 08:13:55 PM
Peter lets trade.  Power plant to the east 1 mile. high power lines 1/4 both north and south. Then all the qrn/qrm in the house. ;D

I've got a substation about a mile away and two 250kV (or higher) lines at the end of my street a half-mile away. They just changed everything out on one right of way for a 400kV transmission line (all new towers and cables), but those haven't been energized yet. I'm about 200 feet away from an industrial park and a ton of neighbours with dirty wall warts. I used to be good on 80 and 160 but the last two years it's just nothing but QRN from dusk til dawn.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on October 31, 2014, 08:21:53 PM
Wow. That's the quickest I've gotten in and out of their pileup yet.
 
East of me must be losing prop on 40m.  2 calls, 2 more to reply/confirm with others calling on top.

Solid 55 here.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7NUW on October 31, 2014, 08:46:00 PM
In the early evening, he's just at the noise level on 30 and 17 on my dipoles.

3 weeks ago I easily worked S79KB Seychelles, true 569 in a similar geographic area -- on 20 meters at 0246Z. He was easily 4 S units above FT4TA. I am sure that was long path, and some of the posts tonight have also suggested long path to Tromelin.

The long path is very favorable to the US west because it's almost all salt water. Short path is a bunch of hops off terrain.

Is there any way to get word to the team to aim south? I think it would make a world of difference to W6/W7 and probably some points further east.

Ken W7NUW 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on October 31, 2014, 09:57:46 PM
That would be the VDA's fault, 10m thru 20m vertical dipole arrays, yuk!  What ever happened to cushcraft A3S and A3WS on dxpeditions?  Light weight, smallish and easy to setup.
These antennas always put out a great signal.  VDA not my choice, they need to be next to sea water etc... heck wire beams work great.  Just saying not complaining.
I know, limited space/weight.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7NUW on October 31, 2014, 10:32:14 PM
Re: NM6V's comment:  S79KB was using a "triple leg" vertical. Basically omnidirectional. The VDA has a null off the back. I suspect the VDA is set to aim more or less north (its forward lobe is broad). But the null off the back would really kill the west NA long path. I am assuming they can rotate the VDA, but maybe not.

After my post I sent a message about this via the 'contact team leader' box on the FT4FA website. Not sure how likely it is to reach the guys on the island, and I realize they have a lot on their plates. 6 ops, 3 stations, 24 hours a day, for 10 days -- a big order! And W6/W7/VE7 is a small part of the world. But I would really like to get in the log! Judging from the pile-ups, I am not the only one.

73 Ken W7NUW
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: M0TTB on November 01, 2014, 12:12:39 AM
Log now uploaded on clublog.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 01, 2014, 12:30:32 AM
Yay!  Good to see.

Got agreement on two bands and modes so far.

I'll never again have month like this one, I think.  Three ATNOs, putting me at 321 current.  And, one of them, 4W, is already confirmed in LOTW!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VK3HJ on November 01, 2014, 12:55:23 AM
Very nice to see my QSO showing in the online log!

As far as DXpedition antennas go, I'm generally NOT a fan of beams, especially when the DXpedition does not employ them effectively to work the less populated parts of the world.

It's hard enough cracking a pileup of EU, JA and NA when DXpedition is using omni antennas, but when they beam towards those population centres, it's nigh on impossible to be heard off the side or back of their beam!

That said, I'm happy so far with my success with FT4TA, and was extremely impressed by the consideration DXpeds like FT5ZM gave to our part of the world. Usually we have to be satisfied with crumbs from the Northern Hemisphere table.

Four ATNO is a good year for me, and another one in the new year coming up too!

73 es GL,
Luke VK3HJ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE8EV on November 01, 2014, 03:24:27 AM
It's killing me waiting for the logs to come up online.  I think I worked them yesterday on 20m, they were weak as water and down in the noise and after listening to static for an hour I probably just imagined the whole thing...

I tried them on 30m RTTY around their sunset but I wasn't expecting much there, it was a zoo and they never really got strong enough for more than about 10% print.

Congrats to those that got through, I'm hoping for better luck tonight!

73
John VE8EV



Well, I guess I'm a member of the "first day" club.  Online log says I didn't imagine my QSO, it was a good one!

Just as well because nothing heard from FT4TA at all here today on any band...


73
John
VE8EV
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on November 01, 2014, 04:15:03 AM
Peter lets trade.  Power plant to the east 1 mile. high power lines 1/4 both north and south. Then all the qrn/qrm in the house. ;D

I've got a substation about a mile away and two 250kV (or higher) lines at the end of my street a half-mile away. They just changed everything out on one right of way for a 400kV transmission line (all new towers and cables), but those haven't been energized yet. I'm about 200 feet away from an industrial park and a ton of neighbours with dirty wall warts. I used to be good on 80 and 160 but the last two years it's just nothing but QRN from dusk til dawn.
I think its 500kv. That's the Susquehanna Roseland power line that they wanted to run through here (but didn't, thankfully).
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 01, 2014, 06:32:27 AM
Well, I am getting myself prepared to say "Well, I just did not try hard enough", around the end of next week.   QRN is so bad here, I don't know what I can do.  I just cannot hear them.  When I do occasionally hear them lightly, they are covered with the usual and the unusual scumbags.

I am just not prepared to fight for hours in that mess. This gets harder every expedition, and I get older, with even less patience for the BS. hi

I will try every now and then. If I get lucky, that will be great.  If I don't, so what? My blood pressure will thank me anyhow.

Good Luck to all/73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4OGW on November 01, 2014, 07:07:55 AM
In the early evening, he's just at the noise level on 30 and 17 on my dipoles.

3 weeks ago I easily worked S79KB Seychelles, true 569 in a similar geographic area -- on 20 meters at 0246Z. He was easily 4 S units above FT4TA. I am sure that was long path, and some of the posts tonight have also suggested long path to Tromelin.

The long path is very favorable to the US west because it's almost all salt water. Short path is a bunch of hops off terrain.

Is there any way to get word to the team to aim south? I think it would make a world of difference to W6/W7 and probably some points further east.

Ken W7NUW 

They are 579 here 20m CW LP Saturday AM 1400z...and I am not west coast, I am sure much stronger in W6/W7.

Tor
N4OGW
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 01, 2014, 07:08:35 AM
Well, I am getting myself prepared to say "Well, I just did not try hard enough", around the end of next week.   QRN is so bad here, I don't know what I can do.  I just cannot hear them.  When I do occasionally hear them lightly, they are covered with the usual and the unusual scumbags.

I am just not prepared to fight for hours in that mess. This gets harder every expedition, and I get older, with even less patience for the BS. hi

I will try every now and then. If I get lucky, that will be great.  If I don't, so what? My blood pressure will thank me anyhow.

Good Luck to all/73, Gene AF3Y

I'm with you, Gene.  As one of the comments on the cluster said, "serenity now."  I really did work hard to upgrade my station, and I'm not sure what else I could've done.  If I don't manage to eke one QSO out by the end of the week, well, it won't have been from lack of effort.  My head says it's still early days, my heart says DOOM.  We'll see.  Good luck!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on November 01, 2014, 07:11:21 AM
In the log. I normally have to sweat these things out longer.  ;D Now to let the madness die.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 01, 2014, 07:13:48 AM
In the log. I normally have to sweat these things out longer.  ;D Now to let the madness die.

My clean 10M ssb QSO on 10/31 at 1810z isn't in the log.  Unless it was Slim I'm good, but still sweating until the next log update.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 01, 2014, 07:17:33 AM
Damn!  Most of these sound like they were written for advice to DXers!!  :o :o

https://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/7-techniques-handle-toxic-people-130000977.html

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 01, 2014, 07:26:03 AM
My clean 10M ssb QSO on 10/31 at 1810z isn't in the log.  Unless it was Slim I'm good, but still sweating until the next log update.

I don't recall a dxped that got ALL the log in the first upload.


My 10m ssb /m qso was at 18:12

It isn't there either, with or without the /m.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 01, 2014, 07:27:35 AM
W7NUW, Ken
They have a good watery signal on 20m LP this Morning, peak for me is at 1445z here in the SouthWest,
Look at your sunrise LP of course.
Meanwhile I'm working on my "SWLing all LIDs Award"
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on November 01, 2014, 07:28:01 AM
In the log. I normally have to sweat these things out longer.  ;D Now to let the madness die.

My clean 10M ssb QSO on 10/31 at 1810z isn't in the log.  Unless it was Slim I'm good, but still sweating until the next log update.

My 15M CW contact is missing, made during the first 30 minutes of the DXpedition. It may show up later hopefully. More reason to try other bands after the first one! My 10 and 20 m Q's are in the log!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 01, 2014, 07:34:23 AM
I can barely hear them on 20 cw.. I can tell they are there but not strong enough to make out calls. I'll check in later on.

Just hoping for one QSO.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 01, 2014, 07:34:29 AM
My clean 10M ssb QSO on 10/31 at 1810z isn't in the log.  Unless it was Slim I'm good, but still sweating until the next log update.

I don't recall a dxped that got ALL the log in the first upload.


My 10m ssb /m qso was at 18:12

It isn't there either, with or without the /m.



I know.  I checked both you and K0RS and noticed you weren't in the online log for that slot either.  I know my QSO was clean so not worried. 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 01, 2014, 07:36:20 AM
good signal LP on 17m ssb
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 01, 2014, 07:39:03 AM
All my contacts are in...got my contacts quite easily yesterday.

Next week, especially after the weekend, will be better for all the serious minded DXers.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 01, 2014, 07:54:33 AM
A VDA within 0.1 of a wavelength to the sea will walk all over a cushcrud or any other beam that's why very few use them these days,

But the have to right on the waters edge,


That would be the VDA's fault, 10m thru 20m vertical dipole arrays, yuk!  What ever happened to cushcraft A3S and A3WS on dxpeditions?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6DXO on November 01, 2014, 07:55:25 AM
I'm in the log...actually made the "first day club"...

#330 !

No I can let things thin out a little.

Gl de harry, W6DXO
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VU2CDP on November 01, 2014, 08:06:16 AM
Who the hell is EA5SYL?  Some moron kept CQing using this call for well over an hour on the FT4's QRG on 12m. That was an open invitation to the cops who came out in full force. Despicable behaviour.

Worked them for an all time new one despite the QRM, up 12 kcs.

73
Deepak VU2CDP
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: M0TTB on November 01, 2014, 08:12:17 AM

Next week, especially after the weekend, will be better for all the serious minded DXers.

Yeah, I delayed my charge for VK9MT  ;)

Get them in the bag ASAP is my motto.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 01, 2014, 08:28:17 AM
My clean 10M ssb QSO on 10/31 at 1810z isn't in the log.  Unless it was Slim I'm good, but still sweating until the next log update.

John,

KF0RQ's 10m Q just before yours isn't in the log either.  So I believe you're good.  In the meantime they are booming in on 15m SSB.  Go get 'em.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 01, 2014, 08:32:26 AM
....Get them in the bag ASAP is my motto.....

 ;)

Yesterday morning I thought it would be a tough fight on this one, especially since it would be an ATNO for me. I listened to the pileups to get a feel for what the challenges might be. Shut everything down without making the first call.

Came home from running multiple errands early afternoon and within 20 minutes had them on two bands. You just never know!

My local DX compadre W4HK worked them the first evening they were up, and thankfully all Q's were in the log after the first upload.  :)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AJ8MH on November 01, 2014, 08:45:27 AM
He had a big signal on 12 while he worked Europe, but when he switch to NA he went in the noise at this latitude.  Now, he went to bed...  I'll get'em!  Persistence will prevail!

FT4TA should be number 319 if and when I get him.  He would have been 320, but XX9R got my call wrong in ClubLog...  I need a drink.

"I will have patience and ignore the jerks, especially the pile-up police, on frequency tuners, other jammers, all other LIDS, pirates, the ill-mannered and the inexperienced, both on frequency and on the DX cluster."

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 01, 2014, 09:01:43 AM
All six of mine are in the log and about an hour on 12 CW got a Q there this morning. Still no joy on RTTY, though, and that's the next big prize for me.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on November 01, 2014, 10:42:28 AM
15m is a total disaster... ultra wide split, op hopping all over the place, loads of QRMers and the weekend crowd... I may try on Tuesday when I'm home most of the day.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 01, 2014, 10:49:01 AM
Get them in the bag ASAP is my motto.

Always. You never know how their plans may change.

7 qsos, 6 bands, 3 modes in the log.

 It's been a good last couple of days, dx-wise.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on November 01, 2014, 11:11:46 AM
Yes get them as soon as you can.

I can hear them through all the liddery.


8 QSO's 3 modes and 5 bands.  ATNO here, so I am very pleased. They are great ops


Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 01, 2014, 11:34:00 AM
Guess I'll submit my report for the day -

Nothing heard.

I keep looking at my radio to make sure it' actually turned on, but I realize the static that I hear is coming from it - stupid. I've checked every spot all day and I've yet to actually hear them.

Maybe if I do, I'll submit an SWL report, that's all I'm likely to get out of this one.  :'(
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W1NK on November 01, 2014, 11:58:20 AM
The DX gods have smiled!

Darn good signal on 17M phone, he starts to ask for "NA number 1", I start dumping my call.  Just before I turn the VFO to a new frequeny I hear "the Whiskey 1 ending Kilo?"

#319 is in the bag  :)

Frank, W1NK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 01, 2014, 12:01:44 PM
Guess I'll submit my report for the day -

Nothing heard.
 I've checked every spot all day and I've yet to actually hear them.

I'm surprised prop is that different between us, you're only 120 mile north of me.

I'm hearing them, at various levels, now on 17m cw , 15m ssb , 12m cw and 10m RTTY on my 40m inverted-L
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on November 01, 2014, 12:12:40 PM
Got 'em on 15!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 01, 2014, 12:13:52 PM
I'm surprised prop is that different between us, you're only 120 mile north of me.

I'm hearing them, at various levels, now on 17m cw , 15m ssb , 12m cw and 10m RTTY on my 40m inverted-L

Thanks for asking.

I dunno, I'm a little surprised at it myself. I have an OK setup - resonant dipoles outside, good rig. I've done very well so far as far as DX goes, no complaints really - logged 150 DXCCs and got my DXCC, but for some reason something's just not oriented right for these guys. I'll keep checking, but in two days I've never heard them on any band - not the least peep. That doesn't bode well. Guess I'll take a nap for now, it's not like I'm going to miss out.  :-[

Good luck to the rest of you.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 01, 2014, 12:33:33 PM
OK!!  The deed is done! :D  #320 Is in the log! (Hope it's in theirs....)  I let him come back to me twice, with all the QRM around to be sure.

I worked em on 12M CW. Their signal was better than it has been to date, and even with the maniac sending CQ CQ with an EA callsign on top of the DX, he was still workable.  Split was huge, and I gave up on finding his RX freq, so just picked a spot at the top of the split and hoped he would go even higher.  He did! :o

So, I am probably the hundred thousandth or millionth person to work em..... makes NO difference to me. I got em.

Now for some college football.

GL Guys.... 73, Gene AF3Y

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on November 01, 2014, 12:46:42 PM
Congratulations Gene..that was a big pileup....I was in there somewhere too


Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W1NK on November 01, 2014, 01:02:57 PM
Congrats Gene!  You had more patience than I did to put up with that mess!

Sure feels good to sit back now and not worry about not getting a Q, eh?   ;)

Frank, W1NK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 01, 2014, 01:59:51 PM
Guess I'll submit my report for the day -

Nothing heard.

I keep looking at my radio to make sure it' actually turned on, but I realize the static that I hear is coming from it - stupid. I've checked every spot all day and I've yet to actually hear them.

Maybe if I do, I'll submit an SWL report, that's all I'm likely to get out of this one.  :'(

Try 12m cw now 24894, wkd 'em 2045z.
73, gl
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N8XI on November 01, 2014, 02:28:33 PM
Finally worked them for an ATNO on 15M SSB at 1853 UTC.
I was able to work through the civil unrest  >:(
5 more to go!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 01, 2014, 03:23:47 PM
I tried for a few hours on the 12m pileup.. I too was trying to find his receive but no luck. Not in the log yet but will try again later. He was pretty strong on 12m. I'll keep trying tomorrow and so on.. I usually trail a day or two behind Gene. I have a 12/17 beam laying around I may hoist up in the air with some rope tomorrow morning to see if that makes any difference. Congrats to all who have worked them so far.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 01, 2014, 03:27:22 PM
Thanks for the kind words, guys.  Those big old splits are tuff for me. (Someday I will learn how to use this dual watch thingy ::))

Hang in there guys, you will get em!

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4NYY on November 01, 2014, 04:11:37 PM
Thanks for the kind words, guys.  Those big old splits are tuff for me. (Someday I will learn how to use this dual watch thingy ::))

Hang in there guys, you will get em!

73, Gene AF3Y

They brought out the worst in DXers! You should have heard the people today! I think we cam make a reality show!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on November 01, 2014, 04:16:28 PM
Quote
They brought out the worst in DXers! You should have heard the people today

It was like Junior School


Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 01, 2014, 04:35:35 PM
It was like Junior School

Yeah.  Me too.  I was a really bad troublemaker in Junior High ;D

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AJ8MH on November 01, 2014, 04:41:12 PM
Big signal on 80 (for the second night in a row) on the K9AY loops 30 minutes before my local sunset, but they were working Europe.  A couple stateside stations did got through, but my inverted-L didn't do so well.  Their vertical is doing great on transmit.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WG5G on November 01, 2014, 05:37:41 PM
 This is for the little pistols still trying, worked them on 20 ssb this afternoon 1 call running 5 watts pep, not a new one here but wanted to let the other little pistols know it's very possible to work them even with less than a kw, for the record I could also hear them on the dipole.

73 Dan WG5G
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 01, 2014, 05:43:32 PM
This is for the little pistols still trying, worked them on 20 ssb this afternoon 1 call running 5 watts pep, not a new one here but wanted to let the other little pistols know it's very possible to work them even with less than a kw, for the record I could also hear them on the dipole.

73 Dan WG5G

Thanks for your post. I checked out you QRZ page - wow! What an antenna! Amazing work. I don't know what is going on at my QTH, but I still have yet to hear the DX station. I have no idea what's going on, there must be some weird phenomenon going on here because I have worked a lot of DX here. I even switched to a second 15m dipole I have for another radio and ... nothing heard! But, I'm not giving up. All I can hope for is that conditions shift a bit.

Again, thanks for the encouragement!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 01, 2014, 06:03:01 PM
Mike N5INP,

I didn't find you in the log for 5R8M.  Were you able to hear them?  Perhaps your dipole has a deficiency in that direction.  From your QRZ page it seems you have no trouble with other entities including the Pacific entities.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 01, 2014, 06:11:40 PM
Mike N5INP,

I didn't find you in the log for 5R8M.  Were you able to hear them?  Perhaps your dipole has a deficiency in that direction.  From your QRZ page it seems you have no trouble with other entities including the Pacific entities.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Ha! Exactly what I was thinking about today! I also cannot hear them either. My dipoles are situated along a NorthEast / Southwest line (but tending more to the North). I have worked South Africa, Antarctica, Australia, Mellish Reef, and South Korea. But I can never hear India nor Tromelin, nor the recent Christmas Island group. I understand I can't have it all, but It's surprising that after propagating halfway around the globe it would not occasionally come in. But I will defer to the experts here.

Many thanks for responding Dan.  :)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE8EV on November 01, 2014, 06:16:31 PM

.... I don't know what is going on at my QTH, but I still have yet to hear the DX station. I have no idea what's going on, there must be some weird phenomenon going on here because I have worked a lot of DX here. I even switched to a second 15m dipole I have for another radio and ... nothing heard! But, I'm not giving up. All I can hope for is that conditions shift a bit.

Again, thanks for the encouragement!

I'd sure be interested to know how they oriented their antennas.  Other than the first day (when they were just using a vertical) I haven't heard them at all EXCEPT for a few moments today on 20m.  They were the loudest I've ever heard them (about 55) and then they just vanished completely!  "Ah merde, ze array eez on zee wrong dahrection"

Granted, its a lousy path from here, straight over the North pole on "short" path and straight over the south pole on "long" path.  If I didn't already have them in the log I'd soon be getting ready to send an email to them.  Hmmm, I wonder which pilot is responsible for guys in the middle of nowhere?  Probably the same one that does VK/ZL...  ::)

Keep the faith!  Still 9 days to go!
GL
John VE8EV
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 01, 2014, 06:22:34 PM
I'd sure be interested to know which how they oriented their antennas. 

I just checked DX World. There is a post from just today, indicating they have yet to install all the antennas. Perhaps there is hope after all!

Quote
As we announced, all stations have been stopped this morning to focus on antenna work with the help of all the team members. This task was very difficult because of the heat and the strong winds. We still have a few antennas to install but we are already QRV from 160m to 10m on CW/SSB and RTTY. Until the end of the operation, we will keep at least 3 stations active around the clock but 2 more can be added at any time.

http://www.dx-world.net/
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W9XX on November 01, 2014, 06:37:31 PM
Boy just a whisper on 80. FT5ZM was much stronger. I know conditions are different. I just thought I could hear them much better than I do.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5WS on November 01, 2014, 06:50:57 PM
Quote

Ha! Exactly what I was thinking about today! I also cannot hear them either. My dipoles are situated along a NorthEast / Southwest line (but tending more to the North). I have worked South Africa, Antarctica, Australia, Mellish Reef, and South Korea. But I can never hear India nor Tromelin, nor the recent Christmas Island group. I understand I can't have it all, but It's surprising that after propagating halfway around the globe it would not occasionally come in. But I will defer to the experts here.

Many thanks for responding Dan.  :)

Mike,
I'm about 18 miles from you according to qrz.com, they haven't been very loud over here.  I've heard them on 15 and 20 on a small beam at 35'.  I haven't been able to hear them on 12 or 17 on my trap dipole that is broadside to them.  Have you used any of the online propagation tools to check out when the best times for him are and his likely signal strength with your antennas?  I like to use http://www.voacap.com/prediction.html (http://www.voacap.com/prediction.html).  He's been much weaker than 5R8M whom I've been able to work on several bands. 
Rob
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 01, 2014, 07:05:14 PM
They were pretty strong on 30m tonight but still no luck getting through yet. They went QRT a short while ago. Pileups are still 25+ kc wide.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 01, 2014, 07:27:19 PM
They were pretty strong on 30m tonight but still no luck getting through yet. They went QRT a short while ago. Pileups are still 25+ kc wide.

I feel your pain. I spent the entire day, from 7:30 this morning until now (10:15pm and counting) desperately trying for just one single RTTY QSO, with nothing to show but a huge electric bill. 15-20kHz pileups or more, virtually no way to find a QSX in that kind of racket and even when I did, the op jumped completely after each Q. Never ever heard two Qs together on the QSX. Couple that with a rate of 2 or 3 a minute (if that) and probably 10,000 or more calling and it's completely impossible for skill to win out over luck on RTTY with this team. I commend them for going with RTTY on the first day but their ops on that mode need to control their pileups far better than they are. At least narrow to one continent rather than all comers when propagation features Asia, Europe and NA at the same time.

There is also ZERO reason to go with a CW pileup that's 25 or 30 kHz wide.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 01, 2014, 07:45:34 PM
Peter W2IRT, I'll trade you my 15m RTTY Q for your 30m or 40m Q :)

I've spent a better part of the evening on 30m with no dice.  The pileup on 30m was insane.  I had difficulty finding his QSX with everybody just transmitting all the time without even listening.

Very light copy here on 40m SSB using a two-element Force 12 beam at 80' AGL.  I didn't make a single call.

The low bands will be a very hard nut for me to crack!

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 01, 2014, 07:55:37 PM
I must be going crazy. I thought I saw him come back to W2IRT earlier today on 10m RTTY. I thought you'd bagged another one. The fan on my radio was going and the tube in the amp was starting to glow but I never found the right spot in that 20+ kHz pile. On the other hand, I worked them pretty easily on 20m RTTY this evening (fingers crossed while waiting for the log). It's all a matter of luck. You've just had the wrong kind, and tossed a string of tails.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 01, 2014, 08:01:02 PM
Guys relax (Peter, Jonathan)  Come over my place and work them from here.  I just worked them on 20m RTTY (Hexbeam up 26 feet).  Our first morning with them I worked them on 30m CW LP and that
evening on 40m Phone with my HF2V.  Let the propagation work for you, find your peak times of propagation.  And with RTTY, just like CW, learn his MO before you ever start xmitting.
20m opening tonight is longer than normal, great conditions.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 01, 2014, 08:09:58 PM
Our first morning with them I worked them on 30m CW LP and that evening on 40m Phone with my HF2V.

Thanks for rubbing salt in my wounds :'(  I did hear them on the first morning....booming signal on 30m LP.  However I needed them everywhere then so I didn't bother with the low bands.  I was chasing them on the higher bands.  I woke up early today hoping to find them on 30m LP.  They didn't show up.  Hindsight is always 20/20 :-\

My 15m RTTY Q took just a few calls.  So you do have a point of letting luck propagation work for me :D

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 01, 2014, 08:10:55 PM
On the other hand, I worked them pretty easily on 20m RTTY this evening.

10m RTTY this morning and 15m RTTY yesterday morning both went pretty smoothly. I don't know if it was a different op during our daytime or what, but there was a pattern of sorts.

The 20m RTTY op, ya got me. He is all over the place, it seems. I finally parked in one semi-clear spot 10 up, and let him come to me.

17m and 30m, no go on those bands so far.

The pileups/qrm there have been the worse for me.

Good luck with it Peter. Hope you get through on RTTY.

73, Tom
N5MOA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 01, 2014, 08:28:13 PM
I was calling like mad on 10m RTTY this morning and I had thought he came back to me with a report. I gave my 599 but the reply was someone else's call TU FT4TA UP instead. I logged it but I won't be surprised if it isn't there in the log update. But I finally got one on 20 RTTY, unquestionably, with screen printout saved to file, so I'm breathing a tad easier. 3 modes and 6 bands so far. Jon, I don't have them on 30 but I am in the log on 40 phone--after a killer pileup last night. I think I"ll get 30 before they leave but I'm not putting money on 80 unless I get help tracking down the extreme QRN that's developed here since the summer. S9 to S9+20 raspy noise across the whole band, but only during hours of darkness. I'm 99% sure it's external but who knows. Can't really shut the whole house down with the XYL home, though maybe I'll make the excuse of testing the generator next week sometime.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 01, 2014, 08:32:55 PM
I didn't mean to rub salt in your wounds Jonathan.  Congrats on those contacts.  I've gotten to the point long time ago that if I hear them well, I go after them.  If I hear them on several bands I then pick the quickest band I can work them on and move on.
I think Peter just worked them!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 01, 2014, 08:40:58 PM
Peter do you have a portable shortwave radio?  You can use that to track down the noise.  When you get closer to the source you will start hearing the noise higher in frequency.
So if you only hear it on 80m tune the receiver up in frequency until it it almost gone and them go for a "walk-about".  See if you can get the signal stronger, follow the noise up the bands to its source.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 01, 2014, 08:50:23 PM
Peter do you have a portable shortwave radio?  You can use that to track down the noise.  When you get closer to the source you will start hearing the noise higher in frequency.
So if you only hear it on 80m tune the receiver up in frequency until it it almost gone and them go for a "walk-about".  See if you can get the signal stronger, follow the noise up the bands to its source.

No, I don't have a portable SW receiver and I can't hear it on my portable AM transistor radio.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO2C on November 01, 2014, 08:52:13 PM
Boy just a whisper on 80. FT5ZM was much stronger. I know conditions are different. I just thought I could hear them much better than I do.

I thought I would, too. When I worked FT5ZM, it was "one call, one ATNO". I've yet to hear FT4TA very well on any band.  :-\
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 01, 2014, 09:39:35 PM
Peter, ok so the source is xmitting around 80m and if the source is producing any square waves at all then you will harmonics going up in frequency.  Borrow a receiver if you can, its a great
RFI sniffing tool.  If you can get one it could solve your problem.  My next door neighbor got a small fishing boat and he purchased a wallmart special battery tender.  Square wave city with the switching
power supply.  I used my shortwave receiver to hunt it down.  He was outside and saw me - asked what I was doing - I told him - and we followed the signal right to his garage door.
Long story short I purchased a quality tender for him and he takes me fishing.

When I lived in Los Angeles, I had some RFI, they have RFI inspectors - he could not find anything on his radio so he took my Sony and found it.  5 utility trucks and 5 crews and 1 week later all fixed.
They had major insulator leaks - its called burning up electricity that they can't sell.

Let me know when you get one.

Henry

Oh, worked them on 17m CW LP a few min. ago.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VK3HJ on November 02, 2014, 03:42:30 AM
No joy today.
I called for an hour in the 15 m pileup, but as is typical pileups involving Europe, it was very hard to find the station he's working, as many stations just keep on calling.
The pileup was impenetrable, and then he went QRT.

I suspect the ops are getting tired, as they hit it very hard right from the start.

73 es GL,
Luke VK3HJ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 04:51:18 AM
Mike,
I'm about 18 miles from you according to qrz.com, they haven't been very loud over here.  I've heard them on 15 and 20 on a small beam at 35'.  I haven't been able to hear them on 12 or 17 on my trap dipole that is broadside to them. 

Now I'm really bummed.  :( I mean not for you of course.

Quote
Have you used any of the online propagation tools to check out when the best times for him are and his likely signal strength with your antennas?  I like to use http://www.voacap.com/prediction.html (http://www.voacap.com/prediction.html).  He's been much weaker than 5R8M whom I've been able to work on several bands. 
Rob


I haven't used it but I guess I could try. But it is what it is here. If he's spotted I go listen and there's nothing I can rotate (well in the normal sense of the word) in any case. I did get an email this morning from a person with some advice - we'll see what the day brings.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 02, 2014, 05:29:08 AM
It's a little after 8 AM Sunday morning and they have a decent signal on 10 meters but the pileup is over 20 kHz wide and most of the stations they're working are from Europe.  On top of all that there has been an on and off jammer.

Last night I operated as W1AW/1 for the JA opening on 15 meters and I had to resort to calling by districts because it sounded like a hive of bees.  I tried split but I found it easier dividing up the districts.  Working split may have helped the Japanese but it didn't help me at all.  The total number of QSOs for the shift dropped by about 25% from a domestic pileup but with a US pileup I can usually pick out many stations on their first call and that was impossible with the JA pileup.

The pileups for FT4TA aren't any smaller than the first day so I don't understand why they aren't calling for NA and SA only.  I have three SSB contacts and I'd like a CW QSO but I'm not joining the mess.

After I worked my W1AW/1 shift last night I joined the 20 meter RTTY mess and I thought I had a good shot at working them because they were 599 plus.  I quit after an hour.  I found their frequency twice but they didn't stick around for another QSO on the same freq.  I guess they don't want to make it too easy. I simply don't have the patience to work a pileup all day.  About an hour is my limit.

73,

Chris  NU1O

PS Who is the North American pilot?  Maybe if we send enough email and complain the pileups are too big they might go back to working NA/SA only.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 02, 2014, 05:39:40 AM
Hi:

With all the QRM between yesterday and today, I think everytime I switch to a new band/mode QRM is waiting for me. Perhaps I will
go outside and get some fresh air and possibly wait until Monday to resume looking for QSO's, maybe the lids etc will be going to work.

What has this world come to. At least if they are causing QRM, their not working FT4TA.

73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N8XI on November 02, 2014, 05:53:15 AM
Oh nice!
Now we have to work them through Sweepstakes.
Oh well, DXCC and Sweepstakes are both ARRL functions  ;D

Hope all catch FT4TA!
73, Rick - N8XI
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K7CO on November 02, 2014, 06:06:42 AM
They were asking for only NA on 80m last night, for quite a long time. He came back to my suffix but not sure I made the log.

On 20m phone I am about 92% sure I made the log. It is now the arduous wait until they upload to clublog. When I see the green check mark anywhere it will be like I just worked them and the smile will be big. If nothing shows up, frown. This hobby has quite a bit of emotion in it

At this moment on 10m cw, there are a few stations calling CQ on top of their TX frequency, of course this is on purpose and I am positive the calls in use are not the people transmitting.  Pity we do not have a Global DFing Force ( armed with pins an needles for coax )

If I am in the log, that will be 309, 31 left for me.

Jon
K7CO
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 02, 2014, 06:35:02 AM
On 20m phone I am about 92% sure I made the log. It is now the arduous wait until they upload to clublog. When I see the green check mark anywhere it will be like I just worked them and the smile will be big. If nothing shows up, frown. This hobby has quite a bit of emotion in it


92%?  How did you arrive at the odd number? 

Were you ever a member of Tradesports or Intrade? We used to bet on Sports, Politics, changes in governments, etc.  This current election would be doing megabucks in business with all the close races.  It was a lot of fun 'til the Feds shut it down.

I don't think the current 10 meter Op has identified since I came back to listen and that was about 20 minutes ago.  I also haven't heard him work a single station from NA.

73,

Chris  NU1O

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 02, 2014, 06:43:04 AM
Pilots:  http://www.tromelin2014.com/en/pilots/ (http://www.tromelin2014.com/en/pilots/)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K7KB on November 02, 2014, 06:55:52 AM
Peter W2IRT, I'll trade you my 15m RTTY Q for your 30m or 40m Q :)

I've spent a better part of the evening on 30m with no dice.  The pileup on 30m was insane.  I had difficulty finding his QSX with everybody just transmitting all the time without even listening.

Very light copy here on 40m SSB using a two-element Force 12 beam at 80' AGL.  I didn't make a single call.

The low bands will be a very hard nut for me to crack!

73,
Jonathan W6GX

And one problem is that they are not spending all that much time on 30 or 40M. Early on they were booming in here on 30M in the morning, but they are not on at all today on that band. Not a peep from them on 40M either.

John K7KB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA2VUY on November 02, 2014, 06:57:51 AM
FT4TA was calling for NA only last night on 40m, the pileup was intense. Meanwhile on 7130 5R8M was cqing and cqing with few callers.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 02, 2014, 07:07:13 AM
FT4TA was calling for NA only last night on 40m, the pileup was intense. Meanwhile on 7130 5R8M was cqing and cqing with few callers.



Not surprising. Who wants to work Madagascar when Tromelin is QRV?

Madagascar has a resident ham, Michele, 5R8UI, who is fairly active.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 07:10:47 AM
Not surprising. Who wants to work Madagascar when Tromelin is QRV?

Me - for one, it would be an ATNO for me. All they have to do if they want more traffic is move above 7.175. They do the same thing on other bands - stay out of the General class area. Again - if they want more traffic go above 7.175, 14.225, and 21.275 ...
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 02, 2014, 07:15:01 AM
This hobby has quite a bit of emotion in it

Pity we do not have a Global DFing Force ( armed with pins an needles for coax )

Jon
K7CO

Uh..........  Perhaps AK 47's and pitchforks for lids >:(. (Easier to pick em up with pitchforks :o)

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 02, 2014, 07:18:25 AM
Working split may have helped the Japanese but it didn't help me at all.  The total number of QSOs for the shift dropped by about 25% from a domestic pileup but with a US pileup I can usually pick out many stations on their first call and that was impossible with the JA pileup.

I'm frankly quite surprised that you had that experience. I operated split a few times when I ran W1AW/2 and my rate was fine so long as I could hear the callers, and if I was just 5-up (usual), it was no difference than a simplex pileup, just in one ear only, not both. The first day when I ran Europe on 15 I was up 5-10 and it was quite pleasant, in fact. Well, as much as running an EU pile can be. Ditto, I was on from /C6A in '06 and '07 and always ran split when working Europe.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0AP on November 02, 2014, 08:09:30 AM
FT4TA has great operators but I don't quite agree the way they are running the show. In my opinion, there should be one dedicated station on 20m CW or SSB to drain that band and give as many people new one as possible. Too much cross band operation. One day 12m phone, the next day 12m CW, the following day 12m RTTY. Now you have same big gun stations working them on 12m all three modes. Same with 10m. Cross band operation maybe in the final days when pileups thin out a little bit, if at all. Very little 40m CW operation. Just my 2 cents. Good luck all, especially the little pistols. You gonna need it.

73 Dragan K0AP
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 02, 2014, 08:14:46 AM
I have worked South Africa, Antarctica, Australia, Mellish Reef, and South Korea. But I can never hear India nor Tromelin, nor the recent Christmas Island group.

These are all on very different paths, and give no indication of your ability to work Tromelin. ZS looks close on a standard map but it's something like 2000 miles away. More importantly, the paths are very different. Use the ruler on Google Earth to look at the short paths from your QTH to different places. The ZS path is at 100 degrees and is mostly over water. The path to FT4TA is around 60 degrees and crosses Africa. What have you worked or heard along or near that path, like 5R, 5Z, 5X, 5H, C9, and S7?

Not surprising. Who wants to work Madagascar when Tromelin is QRV?

Me - for one, it would be an ATNO for me. All they have to do if they want more traffic is move above 7.175. They do the same thing on other bands - stay out of the General class area. Again - if they want more traffic go above 7.175, 14.225, and 21.275 ...

That's not their limitation. Going to Extra takes $15 and minimal effort.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 02, 2014, 08:21:03 AM
That's not their limitation. Going to Extra takes $15 and minimal effort.

AGREED!
And Learning/Using CW can be done for FREE.  It's well worth your time if you want to be
successful in your DXing adventure.

GL/73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 08:25:04 AM
That's not their limitation. Going to Extra takes $15 and minimal effort.

The question was "Who wants to work Madagascar when Tromelin is QRV?". I answered the question. It has nothing to do with classes of licenses.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K7KB on November 02, 2014, 08:32:40 AM
YES!!! Just worked them on 12M RTTY. New band, new mode. Took me about an hour of work and I couldn't get through until he specifically called for NA. So that's 4 bands now and 2 modes. Now to try and grab them on CW.

John K7KB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 02, 2014, 08:38:13 AM
Working split may have helped the Japanese but it didn't help me at all.  The total number of QSOs for the shift dropped by about 25% from a domestic pileup but with a US pileup I can usually pick out many stations on their first call and that was impossible with the JA pileup.

I'm frankly quite surprised that you had that experience. I operated split a few times when I ran W1AW/2 and my rate was fine so long as I could hear the callers, and if I was just 5-up (usual), it was no difference than a simplex pileup, just in one ear only, not both. The first day when I ran Europe on 15 I was up 5-10 and it was quite pleasant, in fact. Well, as much as running an EU pile can be. Ditto, I was on from /C6A in '06 and '07 and always ran split when working Europe.

Peter, you maybe assuming I have the 2nd receiver built into the K3.  I don't have the 2nd receiver.

I tried to spread the Japanese out but it didn't work.  Just about every JA station called on the first split I gave out so it was still like listening to a hive of bees.

The big difference was in my prior mostly US sessions some regions had much better propagation so I could pull out many calls on the first attempt, but with the Japanese they were pretty much all the same signal strength so it took much more work and there was also the language thing.

There are only two months left but if anybody has the chance to operate as a W1AW/p station I would highly suggest it.  It's a lot of fun and you'll make a lot of people happy!

73,

Chris  NU1O

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 02, 2014, 08:45:47 AM
That's not their limitation. Going to Extra takes $15 and minimal effort.

The question was "Who wants to work Madagascar when Tromelin is QRV?". I answered the question. It has nothing to do with classes of licenses.

OK, sorry. I thought you wanted to work them. Never mind.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 08:47:21 AM
OK, sorry. I thought you wanted to work them. Never mind.

I do. The question had nothing whatsoever to do with license classes.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 02, 2014, 08:49:34 AM
YES!!! Just worked them on 12M RTTY. New band, new mode. Took me about an hour of work and I couldn't get through until he specifically called for NA. So that's 4 bands now and 2 modes. Now to try and grab them on CW.

I saw that contact John.  Congrats.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 02, 2014, 08:52:12 AM
That's not their limitation. Going to Extra takes $15 and minimal effort.

The question was "Who wants to work Madagascar when Tromelin is QRV?". I answered the question. It has nothing to do with classes of licenses.

DXing has much to do with your license class.  I can't count all the stations I worked in the Extra portion of the band which I may not have worked if I didn't get my Extra just about when I was first licensed. If you were an Extra you wouldn't have to worry about where the DX station transmitted from because you'd be able to transmit from any amateur frequency.  That gives you control rather than the DX station.

The single best thing YOU can do to help yourself with regard to DXing is to upgrade.

I have a friend who admitted he was going to memorize the answers and it took him about one month to get his Extra.  I think he said he was going to set aside an hour a day. 

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 02, 2014, 08:52:28 AM
FT4TA has great operators but I don't quite agree the way they are running the show. In my opinion, there should be one dedicated station on 20m CW or SSB to drain that band and give as many people new one as possible. Too much cross band operation. One day 12m phone, the next day 12m CW, the following day 12m RTTY. Now you have same big gun stations working them on 12m all three modes. Same with 10m. Cross band operation maybe in the final days when pileups thin out a little bit, if at all. Very little 40m CW operation. Just my 2 cents. Good luck all, especially the little pistols. You gonna need it.

73 Dragan K0AP

Send this to N1DG :)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 02, 2014, 08:55:54 AM
That's not their limitation. Going to Extra takes $15 and minimal effort.

AGREED!
And Learning/Using CW can be done for FREE.  It's well worth your time if you want to be
successful in your DXing adventure.

GL/73, Gene AF3Y

CW is a great equaliser.
I couldn't imagine being phone only with a small station, it's simply an exercise in frustration.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4CR on November 02, 2014, 08:57:04 AM
Perhaps AK 47's and pitchforks for lids >:(. (Easier to pick em up with pitchforks :o)

73, Gene AF3Y

Personally, I vote for hooking up a chain to the bottom of their antenna support and driving away with it.

If that's their chimney, so bet it.

Or perhaps getting their hands caught in a filing cabinet drawer.

The few times I've heard Tromelin, it's been covered up by idiots and QRM.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 02, 2014, 09:05:50 AM
Nice signal on 12m RTTY right now, pileup not too bad.

 Comparatively speaking.  :P
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W9XX on November 02, 2014, 09:05:54 AM
The split is crazy. I have not seen it like that since Scarborough Reef.They were on like 14024  working up in the rtty band area.
But this 10m is crazy for sure. I tried for 2 hours and zip. Mostly EU was worked this morning. When NA was working them it was almost nil here at 16 utc.
Others I worked were fairly easy. 40 ssb about 1 hr, 30m   30 seconds and 20 rtty about 15 to 20 min.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 09:07:23 AM
To the people answering my post - the question had Zero to do with classes of licenses. It's a simple question. I'm afraid it's just going to blow up into another classic eHam argue-fest over semantics.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 02, 2014, 09:12:39 AM
Nice signal on 12m RTTY right now, pileup not too bad.

 Comparatively speaking.  :P

Congrats Tom.  I saw your contact.  I've become a SWL'er of late.  I wonder why :D

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 02, 2014, 09:17:14 AM
To the people answering my post - the question had Zero to do with classes of licenses. It's a simple question. I'm afraid it's just going to blow up into another classic eHam argue-fest over semantics.

Mike..... I think all of us here are on your side, so to speak.  Both the license class comment and my CW comment were meant to help you. The Extra class portion of the bands yields a lot more of the DX that you are looking for.  Ditto for the Extra CW portion.

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 09:22:22 AM
Mike..... I think all of us here are on your side, so to speak.  Both the license class comment and my CW comment were meant to help you. The Extra class portion of the bands yields a lot more of the DX that you are looking for.  Ditto for the Extra CW portion.

73, Gene AF3Y

I understand all of that - but the question -

"Who wants to work Madagascar when Tromelin is QRV?"

was thrown out there as if to say - who cares about Madagascar? Like - there is no one here who cares about working it. That's just plain false. See, it's that Holier-than-thou attitude by some on here that doesn't take into account the various levels of achievement. People should not throw out blanket statements like that when they are just not applicable to the group. I want to work any and all DX I can, even if Tromelin is "QRV".
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 02, 2014, 09:22:43 AM
N5INP, Mike, check your arrl email, I sent you some hopefully helpful info on your propagation for FR/T
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 02, 2014, 09:24:54 AM
Mike, you are correct, its also a great time to work 5R, everyone is chasing FR/T
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 09:25:27 AM
N5INP, Mike, check your arrl email, I sent you some hopefully helpful info on your propagation for FR/T

OK thanks. Let's just get back to the main topic, why don't we?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 02, 2014, 09:31:52 AM

Congrats Tom.  I saw your contact.  I've become a SWL'er of late.  I wonder why :D

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Thanks. They were/are a real 599, no too many callers at the time, I couldn't resist.

Why are you SWL'ing of late?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5JON on November 02, 2014, 09:34:15 AM
To the people answering my post - the question had Zero to do with classes of licenses. It's a simple question. I'm afraid it's just going to blow up into another classic eHam argue-fest over semantics.

Hi,

With all do respect, you are the one that many times has said they should look/move to the "General" portion of the band.......  just saying .... ;D

BTW, in 55 years of Amateur Radio the FT4TA pile-ups have to be in the "Top 3" of the worst display of Amateur Radio I personally have ever heard.

I can not imagine what KP1 will be like.

73,

John
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 09:44:15 AM
BTW, in 55 years of Amateur Radio the FT4TA pile-ups have to be in the "Top 3" of the worst display of Amateur Radio I personally have ever heard.

Well I tried ...

And do you know why I said that? It's because I see on the cluster comments like "Calling CQ lonely" specifically for that callsign.

If they want more callers they should do something about it.

So are we going to drag down this thread or get back on topic?

See, this is the problem with eHam (speaking as a former forum Admin and moderator). There are no officially assigned forum moderators. If anything goes off-topic it's allowed to go on and on. The owners of the forum just don't care about that.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 02, 2014, 09:57:53 AM
On 10 meter CW they are now working NA Only.  It took me 5 minutes and I got my first CW QSO.  Conditions are still good to New England.

This Op is IDing so perhaps the message I wrote to my pilot asking for NA/SA only and frequent IDs was passed on and accepted.  

Whatever the case, I'm happy to have bagged a new mode.

From now on if they aren't asking for NA only I'm not wasting my time.  My odds are probably greater than 1 in a 100 when they are accepting calls globally.

73,

Chris  NU1O

PS I also zero beat the previous QSO and they still worked me which is also a change.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 02, 2014, 10:00:48 AM
Congrats on the CW QSO. I need RTTY to round it out myself, any other bands a bonus.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 02, 2014, 10:02:51 AM
BTW, in 55 years of Amateur Radio the FT4TA pile-ups have to be in the "Top 3" of the worst display of Amateur Radio I personally have ever heard.

Well I tried ...

And do you know why I said that? It's because I see on the cluster comments like "Calling CQ lonely" specifically for that callsign.

If they want more callers they should do something about it.

So are we going to drag down this thread or get back on topic?

See, this is the problem with eHam (speaking as a former forum Admin and moderator). There are no officially assigned forum moderators. If anything goes off-topic it's allowed to go on and on. The owners of the forum just don't care about that.

The problem with moderators is I think you're the only one who doesn't believe a license class is relevant to this discussion.  I believe in a broad flow of ideas.

The next time you write that a DX station should move to the General portion of the band I'm going to ask why you haven't upgraded.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 10:07:38 AM
The problem with moderators is I think you're the only one who doesn't believe a license class is relevant to this discussion.  I believe in a broad flow of ideas.

The next time you write that a DX station should move to the General portion of the band I'm going to ask why you haven't upgraded.

The original question had nothing to do with classes of licenses. And I don't give a damn what you ask me about. If you want to grind this topic into oblivion just keep going, I'll oblige you.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5UD on November 02, 2014, 10:10:42 AM
This operation still reads like a mess. Yes on the 20M station. Give everyone a crack at a new by staying on 20M.

Now just how do I go about getting these guys mobile in north Texas ? No RTTY while mobile for me so it is CW or SSB mode.

73 Tony N5UD
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 02, 2014, 10:13:55 AM
The problem with moderators is I think you're the only one who doesn't believe a license class is relevant to this discussion.  I believe in a broad flow of ideas.

The next time you write that a DX station should move to the General portion of the band I'm going to ask why you haven't upgraded.

The original question had nothing to do with classes of licenses. And I don't give a damn what you ask me about. If you want to grind this topic into oblivion just keep going, I'll oblige you.

See....part of the DX welfare program we talked about in the other thread could apply here!! When a much wanted entity is on the air, all license classes are temporarily suspended to equal the playing field. Then all is good and right with the DX world again.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 10:17:22 AM

See....part of the DX welfare program we talked about in the other thread could apply here!! When a much wanted entity is on the air, all license classes are temporarily suspended to equal the playing field. Then all is good and right with the DX world again.

I don't want Extra class guys in my group - the last two call signs that stepped on the FT4TA station (and I recorded them on paper) were extra class licenses. Hmmmmm ... One wonders.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 02, 2014, 10:19:46 AM
Latest news has now been posted on FT4TA's website and also on DX-World.  Here's a nice picture of their shack.

PS the log is currently being updated in Clublog.  I could see the total of Q's jumped to 21k but the details are still not there yet.  Just a few more minutes of waiting :)

73,
Jonathan W6GX

(http://www.dx-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/FT4TA_DXW_FLAG-e1414951209801.jpg)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 02, 2014, 10:31:40 AM
Just bagged them on 10 CW.  I couldn't believe my ears, it was that same K1VZ thing again.  Took a couple of tries but I think he got it corrected.  Just my luck!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 02, 2014, 10:40:58 AM
FYI.  The log is now fully updated.  My Q from yesterday is there however the server is still crunching numbers for the statistics.  GL everyone.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 02, 2014, 10:41:29 AM
I was hearing them all morning on 10m CW working EU now slowly fading away here in AZ.  I'll wait for later in the week.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 02, 2014, 10:43:19 AM
Just had my best-ever contact. I recently upgraded my antenna. The downside is it's only 20-15-10. I was watching the 12m RTTY this morning and suddenly remembered that I had a 15m 2-element that I'd made last year, using the dimensions from N6BT's book. I never riveted the ends so they were adjustable. I compared the dimensions for 12m. The taper schedule was slightly different so I pulled up the existing EZNEC file and did a quick mod. I dragged it out of storage and put it up on my spare AB-621/G. I don't even have the launcher guyed so the antenna is only up about 25'. (Luckily, no wind today.) I found some odd lengths of coax that already had connectors and patched them with barrel connectors (~150'). Anyway, I came into the shack and was getting pretty good prints from FT4TA but I'm only barefoot on 12m, so I just went up about 12 kHz and hoped for the best. I couldn't believe it when he came back to me. About 2 hours from start to finish.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 02, 2014, 10:57:24 AM
Just bagged them on 10 CW.  I couldn't believe my ears, it was that same K1VZ thing again.  Took a couple of tries but I think he got it corrected.  Just my luck!

I heard it, it was OK :)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 02, 2014, 11:01:14 AM
Just bagged them on 10 CW.  I couldn't believe my ears, it was that same K1VZ thing again.  Took a couple of tries but I think he got it corrected.  Just my luck!

I heard it, it was OK :)

Awesome, thanks!  Now I think I'll just go enjoy the rest of my weekend outside.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 02, 2014, 11:06:00 AM
hmmmm. Second log update.

Looks like I worked a slim on 10m ssb from the mobile Friday.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 02, 2014, 11:07:11 AM
Still no luck here. I've been trying on 12 rtty for a while. I can't really make them out on 15m. I had a few things going on earlier today so I missed probably the peak of the upper bands. Hopefully will get them in the log today or tomorrow (I am working from home tomorrow.. thankfully a light day work-wise.)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 02, 2014, 11:27:10 AM
hmmmm. Second log update.

Looks like I worked a slim on 10m ssb from the mobile Friday.



If it was Slim he worked a long list of us.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on November 02, 2014, 11:28:40 AM
I think they wiped the log data because I entered W2IRT as a test and he didn't show any QSOs.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 02, 2014, 11:30:30 AM
Yes another update is now underway...
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 02, 2014, 11:46:59 AM
I think they wiped the log data because I entered W2IRT as a test and he didn't show any QSOs.
And I had just entered N2RJ to see yours and ditto! Yeah, scary times there, and hope that log is nicely backed up ;D

And I bagged 'em 10m CW just as propagation was fading to me. One call, one up. After all the crap on 10CW earlier this morning I'm quite surprised I got through. I hadn't planned on a long calling session--I just hit the split button and threw my call up exactly one and bingo.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 02, 2014, 12:09:59 PM
Hi:

I went to do the OQRS just after the latest log update and have come across a problem.

Has anyone happened to check their log with the OQRS logform. For some reason my 17m contacts (SSB and CW) don't show
the times when I am logged into Clublog. I manually enter in the date and time of the contact and it shows no match. Perhaps
they have a bad computer.


73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: M0TTB on November 02, 2014, 12:17:13 PM
lol, as usual, slight glitch on clublog and mass panic sets in  ;D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 02, 2014, 12:19:27 PM
Hi:

I went to do the OQRS just after the latest log update and have come across a problem.

Has anyone happened to check their log with the OQRS logform. For some reason my 17m contacts (SSB and CW) don't show
the times when I am logged into Clublog. I manually enter in the date and time of the contact and it shows no match. Perhaps
they have a bad computer.


73 De Mike
VE3YF


Mine all match, including 17m cw 2/11/14 03:53z
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 02, 2014, 12:23:39 PM
FYI.  The third and latest log update has more QSOs than the second update.  But the time stamps between them are identical.  It looks like they added 107 QSOs in the latest update.  Here's a comparison between the two.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Second update
Continent   Total QSOs   %
Africa   248   1.2
Antarctica   3   0.0
Asia   2431   11.4
Europe   11949   55.9
North America   6091   28.5
Oceania   285   1.3
South America   374   1.7
Totals   21381   100.0

Latest update
Continent   Total QSOs   %
Africa   249   1.2
Antarctica   3   0.0
Asia   2442   11.4
Europe   12003   55.9
North America   6127   28.5
Oceania   289   1.3
South America   375   1.7
Totals   21488   100.0
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on November 02, 2014, 12:25:59 PM
Log seems updated. My one QSO on 15 phone is there. Hopefully when they resurface I will try to work a few more slots.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 02, 2014, 12:26:44 PM
Here's a comparison by daily QSOs.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Second update
Date   Total QSOs   Uniques   Uniques %
02-11-2014   5500   1291   23.5
01-11-2014   8071   2387   29.6
31-10-2014   6466   2981   46.1
30-10-2014   1344   1057   78.6
Totals   21381   7716   36.1

Third and latest update
Date   Total QSOs   Uniques   Uniques %
02-11-2014   5500   1291   23.5
01-11-2014   8077   2387   29.6
31-10-2014   6554   2981   45.5
30-10-2014   1357   1057   77.9
Totals   21488   7716   35.9
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on November 02, 2014, 12:27:12 PM
Europe   12003   55.9
North America   6127   28.5

And yet there was constant bellyaching yesterday on the cluster when they were asking for NA only...
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 02, 2014, 12:27:32 PM
lol, as usual, slight glitch on clublog and mass panic sets in  ;D

No "mass panic", just an observation. It wouldn't be the first time I had to re-work a dx-ped mobile because they didn't log the /m.

 And my /m qso still doesn't show, with or without the /m, so it would appear whomever was on freq wasn't them.


73, Tom
N5MOA

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA3MD on November 02, 2014, 12:29:15 PM
12 meter has been the money band lately for me.  FB signal on 10-12 and 15 meters.  Great operation so far!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 02, 2014, 12:34:52 PM
lol, as usual, slight glitch on clublog and mass panic sets in  ;D

Hi Andy:

No mass panic here. I think it is a logging computer on Tromelin that has an issue, not Clublog. If one of the computers has a date/time problem, it could mean a lot of extra work for the team to sort things out. It wouldnt be the first time that the logging computers were out of synch with each other if running on a network.

Just makes things harder to do OQRS.

73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 02, 2014, 12:37:05 PM
Europe   12003   55.9
North America   6127   28.5

And yet there was constant bellyaching yesterday on the cluster when they were asking for NA only...

Ryan:

Don't we see this trend on every DXpedition. One continent feels that they are getting the short end even though the stats say otherwise. I am sure we all know who we are talking about....


73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 02, 2014, 12:42:30 PM
lol, as usual, slight glitch on clublog and mass panic sets in  ;D

Hi Andy:

No mass panic here. I think it is a logging computer on Tromelin that has an issue, not Clublog. If one of the computers has a date/time problem, it could mean a lot of extra work for the team to sort things out. It wouldnt be the first time that the logging computers were out of synch with each other if running on a network.

Just makes things harder to do OQRS.

73 De Mike
VE3YF

I for one am panicked!   :) 

Actually I'm confident I made a good 10M SSB QSO and several others' QSOs at that time also appear to not be showing up.  Either way it will get straightened out and just gotta get back to the chase. 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: MM0NDX on November 02, 2014, 12:44:20 PM
I'm based in Europe, I'm their chief pilot still without a QSO, I realise the path from Tromelin to anywhere Stateside is tougher than EU, so it's not surprising they're trying to maximise the NA tally. The moaners from EU already likely have numerous band slots. And, then there is the QRM..

I don't chase DXCC, but I do IOTA, so one QSO is all I'm looking for. Can wait until the end I guess  ;D

73 Col, MM0NDX
 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 02, 2014, 12:49:11 PM
My lonely 12m CW QSO is in their log.

Pot roast in the crockpot, the whole house smells good.  (Been there since 6 AM ;D)

Think I will forget DX until tomorrow.

GL to all, 73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 02, 2014, 12:49:32 PM
I'm based in Europe, I'm their chief pilot still without a QSO, I realise the path from Tromelin to anywhere Stateside is tougher than EU, so it's not surprising they're trying to maximise the NA tally. The moaners from EU already likely have numerous band slots. And, then there is the QRM..

I don't chase DXCC, but I do IOTA, so one QSO is all I'm looking for. Can wait until the end I guess  ;D

73 Col, MM0NDX
 
Col:

The problem with waiting till the end, anything can happen, band conditions could go flat...Any number of things can happen. I am confident you will get the one you are looking for, just don't wait till the end to try.

73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 02, 2014, 12:55:16 PM
hmmmm. Second log update.

Looks like I worked a slim on 10m ssb from the mobile Friday.

If it was Slim he worked a long list of us.

I'm on that list too.  1803Z.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 02, 2014, 03:10:14 PM

Col:

The problem with waiting till the end, anything can happen, band conditions could go flat...Any number of things can happen. I am confident you will get the one you are looking for, just don't wait till the end to try.

73 De Mike
VE3YF


X2. I've seen a number of DXpeditions pull out early due to bad weather, etc. It's best to get them on the earlier end if you can. I'm hoping to get at least one QSO within the next day or so.. then I can coast and pick up a different band or mode later on if I wish.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W4PGM on November 02, 2014, 03:49:27 PM
What a zoo tonight on 20M.   I had to turn the radio off and walk away.   Rude would only start the conversation for the UP Police tonight.  What is happening to Ham Radio?   
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 02, 2014, 04:00:30 PM
What a zoo tonight on 20M.   I had to turn the radio off and walk away.   Rude would only start the conversation for the UP Police tonight.  What is happening to Ham Radio?   

I heard it. I made some changes to my main antenna in order to check reception of FT4TA and all I heard on their freq. was arguing, squeaky-toy noises, complaining from other hams, DX Kops - what a shame.

I gave up on them and went off to 10 meters. I actually turned off the cluster and tuned the radio the old fashioned way. Came across a nice gentleman - E51JD - calling CQ in the clear. Had a nice QSO without any pileup. What a concept.  :D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on November 02, 2014, 04:33:00 PM
I gave up on them and went off to 10 meters. I actually turned off the cluster and tuned the radio the old fashioned way. Came across a nice gentleman - E51JD - calling CQ in the clear. Had a nice QSO without any pileup. What a concept.  :D

Jim in Rarotonga. Always a nice QSO.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 02, 2014, 04:45:35 PM
What is happening to Ham Radio?   

It has already happened. I am ashamed to be a Ham. my wife walked in to the shack today while I was listening on 15 SSB and asked me why I was listening to the CB band.

We have become a Nation/World of complainers, asses and crybabies. If we can not get our way we make it miserable for everyone else. Just look at society in the USA. Look at how many of us conduct ourselves on Forums.  Some ass gets into the 10 item only lane at Wally's with a full cart. 10 cars run a red light after it turns red. Cell phone conversations ruin your meal at the restaurant. Kids bully kids in the school, hell, kids KILL kids at school. And on it goes. The ham bands are merely mirroring what we see every day in the real world.

Why expect Ham Radio to be different?

To keep on topic, yes I have worked em twice, 12m yesterday and 10m today. I wish I could say it was fun. It wasn't because I am REALLY ashamed of being a Ham. Disgusted actually....

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 02, 2014, 05:05:38 PM
Stan that was a perfect analysis of the situation.

While I was listening to all these idiots on 20m a thought occurred to me.  Why not record these guys and upload it to YouTube and then link it to a thread and see is we can identify who they are.  Enough people are on the forum that can ID the voices that I think we should have a consensus on who these Cops/QRMers really are.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 02, 2014, 05:17:01 PM
Hi:

I went to do the OQRS just after the latest log update and have come across a problem.

Has anyone happened to check their log with the OQRS logform. For some reason my 17m contacts (SSB and CW) don't show
the times when I am logged into Clublog. I manually enter in the date and time of the contact and it shows no match. Perhaps
they have a bad computer.


73 De Mike
VE3YF

Maybe it's a daylight savings time issue. Try adding or subtracting an hour.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 02, 2014, 06:03:42 PM
FT4TA great sig in NTX, 14023.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on November 02, 2014, 06:22:23 PM
FT4TA great sig in NTX, 14023.

I'll second that! Loudest I have heard them on any band. Took only four calls at the lower edge of the split to snag them in a very wide spread of callers!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KH6DC on November 02, 2014, 06:42:40 PM
Can't hear them in Hawaii.  Either too light with tons of noise or none at all.  I'm surrounded by homes with PV hence the noise of s9+.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0AP on November 02, 2014, 06:47:28 PM
FT4TA great sig in NTX, 14023.

Not just the signal but the operator itself is doing a fantastic job. By the time I send my call sign once at 35 WPM he is already working somebody. A real joy to listen to such an exceptional CW operation.

73 Dragan K0AP
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on November 02, 2014, 06:56:58 PM
FT4TA great sig in NTX, 14023.

.... By the time I send my call sign once at 35 WPM he is already working somebody......

73 Dragan K0AP

With me having a call with a "W" at the start and the end, he answered so fast that he clips my last letter of my call. i have had to send it twice a few times, if that is the same operator. He is good, like you said. He was knocking them off at a rapid pace tonight!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA3MD on November 02, 2014, 07:05:08 PM
FT4TA great sig in NTX, 14023.

Not just the signal but the operator itself is doing a fantastic job. By the time I send my call sign once at 35 WPM he is already working somebody. A real joy to listen to such an exceptional CW operation.

73 Dragan K0AP

Yes they definitely have FB CW ops.  The one I worked on 12 mtr was the same way. By the time I sent my call at 30 wpm he was halfway into the next caller!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 02, 2014, 07:10:45 PM
By the time I sent my call at 30 wpm he was halfway into the next caller!

Here's a trick for you to try.  If you send your call at 20wpm like I do by the time you're done sending he would have finished working exactly one caller and be ready to listen to your next call.  It works for me :D

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2NL on November 02, 2014, 10:42:00 PM
Can't hear them in Hawaii.  Either too light with tons of noise or none at all.  I'm surrounded by homes with PV hence the noise of s9+.

I live on Hickam a block from the flight line.  Poor antenna - 20m vertical dipole through a tuner in a high noise environment.  I've been able to hear them on 20m and 17m, starting about 5PM local and peaking just before sunset.  No QSO yet from here, because the pileups have been huge, but this is probably the best time to try with EU still in darkness and East Coast NA mostly in bed.  Yesterday on 17m they apparently asked for OC only but it was past our peak.

73, Dave KH6/N2NL (aka WH7AA)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 02, 2014, 11:16:23 PM
Can't hear them in Hawaii.  Either too light with tons of noise or none at all.  I'm surrounded by homes with PV hence the noise of s9+.

I live on Hickam a block from the flight line.  Poor antenna - 20m vertical dipole through a tuner in a high noise environment.  I've been able to hear them on 20m and 17m, starting about 5PM local and peaking just before sunset.  No QSO yet from here, because the pileups have been huge, but this is probably the best time to try with EU still in darkness and East Coast NA mostly in bed.  Yesterday on 17m they apparently asked for OC only but it was past our peak.

73, Dave KH6/N2NL (aka WH7AA)

I no longer do much operating at 1 AM local time and I seldom work 40 meters except for a regional net because I only have half of an inverted V (one leg broke off when we were raising the tower) but I do have an Alpha 8410 which is a pretty good equalizer.  Just worked 5W0AG and E51NOU on CW, and W1AW/KH8 on SSB.  QRN is low and the band is in great shape.  I'm going to try for a FT4TA contact on 40 after this mornings catches.  I'm surprised my broken V, which I guess is now a sloper, even works at all.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 03, 2014, 03:35:53 AM
They were quite strong on 20 cw.. Pile ups did not sound to bad. I tried until they faded out. Still no QSO with them yet.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on November 03, 2014, 05:22:24 AM
So far I've never really seen it this bad. The kids, kids and cops are out of control. The ultra wide split isn't helping either.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 03, 2014, 05:31:03 AM
So far I've never really seen it this bad. The kids, kids and cops are out of control. The ultra wide split isn't helping either.

You forgot to mention Slim(s).  :(
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K5PS on November 03, 2014, 05:37:43 AM
I'm impressed with how many band/mode slots they've already been on so soon in their DXpedition (as per ClubLog). I hope that they will restrict their band/mode hopping a bit to let the pileups become a little more manageable.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 03, 2014, 06:21:16 AM
By the time I sent my call at 30 wpm he was halfway into the next caller!

Here's a trick for you to try.  If you send your call at 20wpm like I do by the time you're done sending he would have finished working exactly one caller and be ready to listen to your next call.  It works for me :D

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Hmmm.....  we all have our tricks, methods, or whatever, to get the DX's attention.  For me, its trying to match my speed to the DX, slow, fast or faster.  Seems to get picked up quicker.  But then again, on these huge spreads, its probably just luck. hi hi

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VK3MEG on November 03, 2014, 06:29:57 AM
havent got them in my log for me they  were loud the first day and tonight they  were 5/9 it was the same to every one cept the US the pile up was horrendous. i called for an hour they packed up in disgust then so i'm here reading this it would be nice to get them but I'm not going to kill myself to do it.. I think they truely underestimated the need of this one. even ft5zm wasnt as bad as this.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 03, 2014, 06:35:32 AM
Their 17m RTTY pileup is spread all the way up to 18.120 right now.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 03, 2014, 07:09:25 AM
So far I've never really seen it this bad. The kids, kids and cops are out of control. The ultra wide split isn't helping either.

You forgot to mention Slim(s).  :(

Did it turn out to be a slim that all you guys worked?   :(
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 03, 2014, 07:31:04 AM
So far I've never really seen it this bad. The kids, kids and cops are out of control. The ultra wide split isn't helping either.

You forgot to mention Slim(s).  :(

Did it turn out to be a slim that all you guys worked?   :(

After several log updates, it appears to have been.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 03, 2014, 07:36:02 AM
Sounds like several dozen lids from EU decided to take off from work today off, to jam the FT4TA this morning. QRM worse than on the weekend.  WHO the hell is this person sending the CQ over and over using an EA call? SUPER Loud.... I think he is in NA.

Glad my puny 1 QSO is in their log. I was hoping for more, but "aint gonna" fight that mess.

GL to all/73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 03, 2014, 07:37:02 AM
After several log updates, it appears to have been.

There's still hope.  One of my contacts with an Italian dxpedition didn't show up until after several log updates.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2NL on November 03, 2014, 08:26:15 AM
I am not sure what their logic is with running RTTY on multiple bands, unless the ops have a sadistic love for the mode.  I would think it makes much more sense to limit RTTY to 1 or 2 bands only.  You can always have a much faster rate on CW and SSB than RTTY.  Multiple-band RTTY seems to encourage the big gun band-slot chasers, which reduces the overall number of guys who can get in the log for an ATNO or ATNO by mode.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: ZS6DX on November 03, 2014, 08:34:33 AM
I had a nice experience today with FT4TA. I did work Tromelin in 2000 on a few bands and have added 20,17 and 12m this time around.

I unpacked and connected up a new radio today, a quick scan around the bands gave me FT4TA on 15m with a huge pileup but a decent signal. Soon I had them in the bag on 15 CW, what a great way to start with a new radio!

Don't give up, still plenty of time and the pileups are bound to get better!

73, Rudi de ZS6DX/V51VE
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3NRX on November 03, 2014, 08:35:52 AM
What is happening to Ham Radio?   

It has already happened. I am ashamed to be a Ham. my wife walked in to the shack today while I was listening on 15 SSB and asked me why I was listening to the CB band.

We have become a Nation/World of complainers, asses and crybabies. If we can not get our way we make it miserable for everyone else. Just look at society in the USA. Look at how many of us conduct ourselves on Forums.  Some ass gets into the 10 item only lane at Wally's with a full cart. 10 cars run a red light after it turns red. Cell phone conversations ruin your meal at the restaurant. Kids bully kids in the school, hell, kids KILL kids at school. And on it goes. The ham bands are merely mirroring what we see every day in the real world.

Why expect Ham Radio to be different?

To keep on topic, yes I have worked em twice, 12m yesterday and 10m today. I wish I could say it was fun. It wasn't because I am REALLY ashamed of being a Ham. Disgusted actually....

Stan K9IUQ




Gee Stosh....what happened to the thrill and and the adrenaline???.....I thought this is what you (guys) lived for???.....C'mon man!.....BRING ON MORE!!!!....Yes indeed, the more chaos the better I always say!......LOL....Love it when the chickens come home to roost....I really makes my day!.....LOL....

V
K3NRX






Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 03, 2014, 08:45:32 AM
For as much as I have been hearing them.. I'm beginning to wonder if I get through will it be towards the end of the dxpedition? Even the largest dxpedtions I have been able to get through within 4-5 days (ft5zm took 4 days to break through). Pileups at least seem to be getting a little smaller.. only about 10+ kc instead of 20+.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 03, 2014, 08:52:41 AM
Gee Stosh....what happened to the thrill and and the adrenaline???.....I thought this is what you (guys) lived for???.....C'mon man!.....BRING ON MORE!!!!....Yes indeed, the more chaos the better I always say!......LOL....Love it when the chickens come home to roost....I really makes my day!.....LOL....

V
K3NRX

Well Vinnie, I love Pileups as you well know. And these pileups are stupendous, maybe the best and widest I have ever seen. Bring it on.

It is the jamming, stupidity and un-ham like behavior that disturbs me. It makes me sad that hamradio operators have sunk this low. I assure you the adrenaline is there. I LOVE pileups. I hate the jammers, stupid cops and the jerks that run wide digital modes on top of the DX.

I got 2 in the Log. And I have many more days of adrenaline pumping pileups in my future. Bring it on.....
So Life is good.

Is Life good right now with a 35 yr old Kenwood and a G5RV??  :D :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 03, 2014, 09:15:47 AM
Gee Stosh....what happened to the thrill and and the adrenaline???.....I thought this is what you (guys) lived for???.....C'mon man!.....BRING ON MORE!!!!....Yes indeed, the more chaos the better I always say!......LOL....Love it when the chickens come home to roost....I really makes my day!.....LOL....

V
K3NRX

Well Vinnie, I love Pileups as you well know. And these pileups are stupendous, maybe the best and widest I have ever seen. Bring it on.

It is the jamming, stupidity and un-ham like behavior that disturbs me. It makes me sad that hamradio operators have sunk this low. I assure you the adrenaline is there. I LOVE pileups. I hate the jammers, stupid cops and the jerks that run wide digital modes on top of the DX.

I got 2 in the Log. And I have many more days of adrenaline pumping pileups in my future. Bring it on.....
So Life is good.

Is Life good right now with a 35 yr old Kenwood and a G5RV??  :D :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ



I just worked them on 12 meter SSB and the pileup was very well managed without any cops, jammers, or Ops on the wrong VFO.  I followed the Op down in frequency as he QSYed and I made my QSO in less than 10 minutes.  He was working Europe and the US about equally.  The operator was very good.

73,

Chris  NU1O

PS He took a break but is back on 24.955 listening 5 to 15 up.  It doesn't sound like a huge pileup.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 03, 2014, 09:19:38 AM
Last evening East Coast on 20CW there were pretty loud. I think that's my best shot. Surprised how much weaker they are than 5R8 or 3B8CF. It would be nice if SOMEBODY there stayed on 20 meters 24/7 to allow us to at least get ONE QSO. But there is still time.

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 03, 2014, 09:28:59 AM
Chris  NU1O

PS He took a break but is back on 24.955 listening 5 to 15 up.  It doesn't sound like a huge pileup.

I just got back from lunch and there was your post on the monitor. THANK YOU, I went to 12m and got him on the first call. No Jammers and the pileup was not huge. I use a QS1R for a panafall and seen that 24963 was free and BINGO.

ATTN Vinnie: I did not even get time to get the adrenaline pumping on this QSO.

Thanx Chris - I owe you one

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 03, 2014, 09:33:13 AM
I too saw this thread and hopped on 12 phone.  Heard N6PSE make a QSO, spotted his frequency, and worked the FT4 next.  Good stuff!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 03, 2014, 10:06:24 AM
He had a nice decent signal on 12, but went QRT. Still trying..

10m he's in there but really weak for me.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 03, 2014, 10:26:16 AM
Chris  NU1O

PS He took a break but is back on 24.955 listening 5 to 15 up.  It doesn't sound like a huge pileup.

I just got back from lunch and there was your post on the monitor. THANK YOU, I went to 12m and got him on the first call. No Jammers and the pileup was not huge. I use a QS1R for a panafall and seen that 24963 was free and BINGO.

ATTN Vinnie: I did not even get time to get the adrenaline pumping on this QSO.

Thanx Chris - I owe you one

Stan K9IUQ

Stan, 

I wrote the post to hopefully help somebody who needed them.  Glad you read the post in time and glad you worked them! 

I get a lot of help from this forum so I'm happy to pay back some of my debt.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 03, 2014, 11:08:18 AM
He came back to 12m, decent signal in the mobile.

Maybe this one will show in the log.  :P
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 03, 2014, 11:46:22 AM
He had a nice decent signal on 12, but went QRT. Still trying..

10m he's in there but really weak for me.

Hi James,

Gotta build a wire beam like the one Mike KJ4Z is using.  GL.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 03, 2014, 12:01:08 PM
Hmm.. looks pretty easy to build, I would just have to find a place to put one up.

Of course if I could convince my wife that a tower is a good idea.. I have one ready to go up. Still a work in progress...  ::)

They have faded out on 12m. Looks like I'll be trying the lower bands tonight. Hopefully they'll be on 30 or 20 cw later on. I think I'll still get them.. this one is just going to draw out longer than I wish for me. I think its pretty clear though I'd like to try to come up with some better antennas than what I have.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 03, 2014, 12:02:52 PM
Hmm.. looks pretty easy to build, I would just have to find a place to put one up.

Yes, it does look easy, doesn't it?   ;D

It's not too bad.  If you don't have to worry about it getting caught up in the undergrowth you might have an easy time of it.  Good luck!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 03, 2014, 12:21:56 PM
Has anybody been able to hear them on 40m SSB?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 03, 2014, 12:24:58 PM
Of course if I could convince my wife that a tower is a good idea.. I have one ready to go up. Still a work in progress...  ::)

You are wasting your time. Convincing a wife that a tower is a good idea is like trying to convince you she needs yet another purse or pair of shoes. You would have better odds trying to convince a HOA a tower is a good idea.  :D :D

Put your Alpha Dog DX Engineering Hat on and say dear " This is the way it is going to be be". The worst that can happen is you lose a wife BUT you gain a tower.  ;) :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA2VUY on November 03, 2014, 12:27:38 PM
i've worked them on 40 SSB, and W2IRT said he did also. I am hearing them right now on 7082 1.5 hr before sunset working EU 7135 up, a good sign for later.
Has anybody been able to hear them on 40m SSB?

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K7CO on November 03, 2014, 12:35:17 PM
phew... 80m cw and 20m ssb in the online log. I can now relax, the rest is just icing
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 03, 2014, 12:38:35 PM
Has anybody been able to hear them on 40m SSB?


Heard and worked Friday evening, about 3 hours after my dark, and about a hour or so after their sunrise.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 03, 2014, 12:49:29 PM
Has anybody been able to hear them on 40m SSB?


Heard and worked Friday evening, about 3 hours after my dark, and about a hour or so after their sunrise.

I saw your spot however they were too weak to call.  And just how do you break the pile that was east of you?  I think my best chance for 30m and 40m would be LP in the morning.  However they have been on the higher bands in the mornings :'(  I think my chances for a lowband contact is slim to none.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 03, 2014, 01:13:01 PM
An updated log is now available on Clublog.  GL.

Log to search:    FT4TA
28,175 QSOs logged between 2014-10-30 18:59Z and 2014-11-03 14:42Z

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 03, 2014, 01:19:55 PM
Has anybody been able to hear them on 40m SSB?


Heard and worked Friday evening, about 3 hours after my dark, and about a hour or so after their sunrise.

I saw your spot however they were too weak to call.  And just how do you break the pile that was east of you?  I think my best chance for 30m and 40m would be LP in the morning.  However they have been on the higher bands in the mornings :'(  I think my chances for a lowband contact is slim to none.

73,
Jonathan W6GX


I don't remember spotting them on 40m Friday, they had plenty of NA spots already.

I put a spot for 30m RTTY last night, right at my sunset, and one on 17m cw at 03:54z, 'cause I didn't hear any other NA calling.

As for breaking the pile east of me, I had tried for a short bit on 40m ssb when I first heard them, but the pileup was stupid. Came back 3 hours later, still a pile, (just not quite as stupid) couple of calls and done.

30m RTTY took a bit, 15 minutes or so.

All I have is an inverted-L for 40 (have to work around all you guys with beams  :P) and a 1/4w vertical for 30m.

80m was right after my sunset, 23:55 Thursday. Caught them cq'n.

AL-80B for the bands I can use it on.

As for your lowband chances, looking at the greylines on DXAtlas, your evening/their morning sure looks better than the other way around.

Good luck with it.

73, Tom N5MOA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 03, 2014, 01:27:32 PM
I put a spot for 30m RTTY last night

I saw that but they went QRT by the time I got in the shack.

All I have is an inverted-L for 40 (have to work around all you guys with beams  :P) and a 1/4w vertical for 30m.

You must be sitting on some really good ground!

As for your lowband chances, looking at the greylines on DXAtlas, your evening/their morning sure looks better than the other way around.

I said that because I don't think I'll have any chance of breaking through the EU/East Coast wall.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 03, 2014, 02:22:04 PM
You must be sitting on some really good ground!

According to the "Map of Effective Ground Conductivity in the United States", the ground conductivity in the U.S. ranges between 0.5 and 30 millimhos (or millisiemens) per meter.

Half my county falls in the "30" range. I'm in that half. So yes, good ground.

For comparison, you're in a "8" zone.

I'm also on a hill with a clear 360deg shot, 8 miles out of town, with zero man made noise.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 03, 2014, 02:29:52 PM
On 7.082 right now, op said 7.130 and up

Working mainly EU
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: G0ORC on November 03, 2014, 02:34:55 PM
In EU, as you would expect, they have been very strong on 20,17,15,12 & 10.  However, its a total lottery as to whether you work them or not.  I know it is one of the most wanted entities but does that justify working CW pile-ups up to 30 kHz higher than their transmit frequency?

As a small-pistol Dxer with only 305 worked, all with wire antennas (including Tromelin (on one band only) FR/F6KDF/T in 2000)  I'm :-

1) Disappointed that they think that they are so important that on CW, SSB and RTTY they can take a huge slice of any band to claim for their own.  Selfish is not in it.  The normal day to day ops don't deserve to be kicked off like that.  If Nigel, G3TXF can work huge CW pileups at never more than 4 up, then why can't these guys?  To be fair, its not just this Dxpedition, its getting to be be most of them who behave like this.

2) Disappointed and embarassed that once again,  EU ops have disgraced themselves with a standard of operating that has become their hallmark over the last few years.  Let me apologise for their behaviour and please guys, don't lump the UK and the other EU good guys in with them.

3) Very surprised and very disappointed to hear so many US ops behaving badly too - I held US ops generally in high esteem but its a worrying trend that standards appear to be dropping there too.  Only JA saves they day, disciplined as usual.

I'm glad its not an ATNO for me - I've cracked many a pile-up but these are more daunting and chaotic than anything I've heard in 30 years.

I'll wait until the last few days hope for one one QSO - but I'm not holding my breath.

Vince G0ORC


PS - If its like this for Tromelin I just can't imagine what Navassa is going to be like....
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 03, 2014, 02:36:50 PM
Has anybody been able to hear them on 40m SSB?


Heard and worked Friday evening, about 3 hours after my dark, and about a hour or so after their sunrise.

Thanks, I think I saw that spot but I could not make out the stations, just a little something would come up over the QRN every now and then.  I don't think a Rotatable Dipole is going to cut it for this one.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 03, 2014, 02:52:29 PM
On 7.082 right now, op said 7.130 and up

Working mainly EU

I could copy him without the QRM.  But no chance for a Q as I have kids duty until 0300z :'(

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 03, 2014, 03:06:03 PM
my 40m qso was at 03:14z.

He's a solid 58 here, but I'm not hearing him work anyone but EU right now.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 03, 2014, 03:22:48 PM
Tried 80 CW for a little while a few min. ago.  No contact, but a nice lesson in LIDNESS.
Pitiful!

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5UD on November 03, 2014, 04:10:09 PM
Got them on first call last night 20M SSB from the mobile. No cluster spot involved.
I heard them call CQ and answered it 0144Z. No one else calling that I could tell.

That CW pileup was a mess. Much better signal than on SSB.

I sent an email a day or two ago to west Coast pilot about FT4 should stay on 20M
as long as they are making Q's to some place. No reply thus far.

Their 80M recv is poor.
Tony N5UD /M
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K4JK on November 03, 2014, 05:00:29 PM
Currently W1AW/KP2 is QRG on 10115 and listening on/around FT4TA's QRG at 10117.5.

So the DX cops are telling a bunch of guys who are listening 2.5 down that the dx (that they aren't chasing) is up.

 ::)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 03, 2014, 05:07:54 PM
very lite here on 30m, Guy on 40m was about 55 but half the world was calling him so not much hope for my small station,

At least I have now heard them just need to work them now,

(and finish the optibeam instillation)

Trevor
EI2GLB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 03, 2014, 05:16:31 PM
Tried 80 CW for a little while a few min. ago.  No contact, but a nice lesson in LIDNESS.
Pitiful!

73, Gene AF3Y

80 Hah hah  ;D ;D ;D  Gene I had no idea you liked pain so much ;)


73s
Rob
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5UD on November 03, 2014, 05:46:29 PM
Station on 30M CW now S7 on the mobile in Texas.
Pile up is the pits. I won't try.
73 N5UD /M
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on November 03, 2014, 06:04:41 PM
Just got them on 80 CW this late in NTx (0205 UTC).. Thank goodness for the P3. This was a difficult one to find the last one he worked. I finally found him lower than most of the spots (up 1.1 KHz)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 03, 2014, 06:31:09 PM
Zero percent chance of my hearing them on 80 due to electrical noise -- first DXpedition I'll have missed on 80 in years, in fact. Tried for hours tonight on 30 but no chance there either, but I suspect I'll probably bag them on 30 before they pull the switch next week. I did, in fact, get in the log last Friday night on 40 phone. I won't even bother trying 40 CW, in fact.

I agree with others that spreading pileups that far across the band is the mark of very poor operating practice. If they're trying to cut down the mess on their end (a) start restricting by continent and (b) turn down the RF Gain and pad down a bit. And as much as I detest going by numbers, with demand so insanely high, it might be the only way, though I'd prefer "east coast, midwest, west coast" for NA rather than numbers. Kinda hard to repeat that over and over on CW, though, and it would kill rate. Maybe UP NA East and UP NA WEST and hope the folks in the middle figure out when best to call? They have at least one phenomenally good CW operator who can run 35-40 WPM, but the size of the piles makes for extreme frustration for all concerned, and with frustration comes jamming, I'm sorry to say.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on November 03, 2014, 06:52:03 PM
I would work them anywhere now if only they would show up somewhere.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 03, 2014, 06:53:12 PM
Just got them on 80 CW this late in NTx (0205 UTC).. Thank goodness for the P3. This was a difficult one to find the last one he worked. I finally found him lower than most of the spots (up 1.1 KHz)

I got 'em on 80m CW tonite too... just before I had to leave for work.  I was really surprised to get thru the east coast and even EUs calling.  Also surprised at how early they became audible here. Worked them up 6 kHz around 2355Z.  Another couple of minutes and I would have had to shut down.  I actually found this pileup a little more civil, certainly much better than 15m this morning.  Never did bust that one.  What a mess.  EUs POed that the FT was working NA and just general BS.  Why is it that every lid who feels obligated to instruct the pile with "UP UP" does it right when the DX is sending a callsign?  This may be the worst since Bouvet, 3Y5X.  It's official.  The CW lids are now as bad as the SSBers.

@W2IRT:
Quote
I'd prefer "east coast, midwest, west coast" for NA rather than numbers.

Exactly.  This morning he asked for 6s and 7s.  I'm at the extreme west side of the tenth district with 7s all around me, but still can't call.  Oh well, I guess no system is perfect.  Hope he is on 15 again tomorrow.  This nite shift will go down as notable for lack of sleep.  One more stinking nite then a week off.  Look out!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AA6YQ on November 03, 2014, 07:04:16 PM
Very good signals on 30m CW from 0030Z to 0230Z, but too many cops and jammers. Finally got through not long before they went QRT.

That leaves 160m and 6m...

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 03, 2014, 07:21:32 PM
Car trouble prevented tonight's attempt. Our minivan decided that power steering fluid was highly overrated and proceeded to empty it all out. It had to get flat bedded.. the whole nine yards. Nice 40+ mile tow.

Finally got downstairs to try to work him. Heard him nice and LOUD on 20 ssb... got the amp tuned up. I got a couple of calls in but then he went silent for a while. He came back on several minutes later and his signal was gone (maybe changed/turned antennas?). Oh well, I think I am packing it in for tonight.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 03, 2014, 07:33:36 PM
Car trouble prevented tonight's attempt. Our minivan decided that power steering fluid was highly overrated and proceeded to empty it all out. It had to get flat bedded.. the whole nine yards. Nice 40+ mile tow.

LOL 300+ DXCC and I drive a minivan   ::) ::) ::) ;D

I told you DXers don't drive minivans...but would you listen?  Nooooo....
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 03, 2014, 07:41:35 PM
I told you DXers don't drive minivans...but would you listen?  Nooooo....

With the pedal on the metal (not a minivan) I got home at 0315z today and missed ALL of the low band actions.  While I was waiting for the kids at their swim practice I got a bunch of emails saying big signal on 80m, etc.  I almost wanted to cry.

My evening kids duty will repeat again tomorrow minus the music lessons.

Kids are way overrated these day.  DX IS!

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2NL on November 03, 2014, 07:59:09 PM
Nice peak at 0330z in Hawaii - the loudest I have ever heard them from here.  Called for quite a while on 20 SSB until I decided to go high, away from the masses.  Two calls later I got him. 

Shortly thereafter they showed up on 17m CW, with a huge JA pileup.  Again, went above the masses and worked them pretty quickly, barefoot with a vertical dipole.

The openings from here are extremely short, but it is mostly an antipodal path so 20/17m is pretty solid around this time of day.  I've not heard them yet on any of the other bands.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA4053SWL on November 03, 2014, 08:02:59 PM
I listened 11/2 on 10m and signal was very week. Luckly the three times  I listened they in cw are on the log. W1NG 18:02z, VE3RA 18:03z and K8NVR 18:32z. Another SWL ATNO ;D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 03, 2014, 08:49:54 PM
Car trouble prevented tonight's attempt. Our minivan decided that power steering fluid was highly overrated and proceeded to empty it all out. It had to get flat bedded.. the whole nine yards. Nice 40+ mile tow.

LOL 300+ DXCC and I drive a minivan   ::) ::) ::) ;D

I told you DXers don't drive minivans...but would you listen?  Nooooo....

We have one for medical reasons (equipped to accommodate a wheelchair), however.. with the roof racks.. they are VERY capable of transporting various antenna stuff. I've moved plenty of towers, beams and even two dishes! So... they could be a good choice?  ;D

I suppose on the upside with it out of service.. I am working from home.. so on my downtime I might have a bit more radio time :) I'm still hopeful in the next day or so I'll have them in the log.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 03, 2014, 09:03:29 PM
Chris  NU1O

PS He took a break but is back on 24.955 listening 5 to 15 up.  It doesn't sound like a huge pileup.

I just got back from lunch and there was your post on the monitor. THANK YOU, I went to 12m and got him on the first call. No Jammers and the pileup was not huge. I use a QS1R for a panafall and seen that 24963 was free and BINGO.

ATTN Vinnie: I did not even get time to get the adrenaline pumping on this QSO.

Thanx Chris - I owe you one

Stan K9IUQ

Stan,

Can you give me the UTC time of your 12 meter QSO?  

This afternoon I noticed my PC clock never changed with Sunday's change back to Standard Time.  I have about 15 QSOs that probably are an hour off but one accurate QSO time would really help out.  All of my QSOs, except for one, were with expeditions or W1AW/p stations so I can't write to them for the time.  I wrote to the station I worked who was handing out Centennial points but so far he has not answered with the time of our QSO.  

Thanks a lot!

Chris  NU1O

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 04, 2014, 03:04:14 AM

Can you give me the UTC time of your 12 meter QSO?  

This afternoon I noticed my PC clock never changed with Sunday's change back to Standard Time.

Thanks a lot!

Chris  NU1O

Sure  - 11-03-14 at 1724UTC

That contact put me on a roll. I worked them in 3 more slots yesterday after that 12m ssb QSO.
You were good luck for me Chris, Thanks, I would have missed the 12m ssb QSO except for your timely post.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3NRX on November 04, 2014, 03:44:45 AM
Gee Stosh....what happened to the thrill and and the adrenaline???.....I thought this is what you (guys) lived for???.....C'mon man!.....BRING ON MORE!!!!....Yes indeed, the more chaos the better I always say!......LOL....Love it when the chickens come home to roost....I really makes my day!.....LOL....

V
K3NRX

Well Vinnie, I love Pileups as you well know. And these pileups are stupendous, maybe the best and widest I have ever seen. Bring it on.

It is the jamming, stupidity and un-ham like behavior that disturbs me. It makes me sad that hamradio operators have sunk this low. I assure you the adrenaline is there. I LOVE pileups. I hate the jammers, stupid cops and the jerks that run wide digital modes on top of the DX.

I got 2 in the Log. And I have many more days of adrenaline pumping pileups in my future. Bring it on.....
So Life is good.

Is Life good right now with a 35 yr old Kenwood and a G5RV??  :D :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ



Well Well Well....It looks like some of our friends who "live for CHALLENGES" even have their breaking points!..... :o :o :o :o.....& probably would not mind a little "spoon feeding" at this point in the INSANITY, eh???.....LOL..... ::) ::) ::).....As for the subject at hand.....right now, I'd be happy to actually hear them.....yeah, seriously.....that would be most preferential at this stage.....just hearing them......so far, FT4TA is a colossal BUST.....I really hope that changes soon......otherwise, another :( will go on my list of needed countries, indicating another missed opportunity...... >:( >:( >:( >:(......

V
K3NRX

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on November 04, 2014, 03:55:07 AM
They were loud here on 40m and 80m last night.


Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 04, 2014, 04:19:39 AM
Hi:

I went to do the OQRS just after the latest log update and have come across a problem.

Has anyone happened to check their log with the OQRS logform. For some reason my 17m contacts (SSB and CW) don't show
the times when I am logged into Clublog. I manually enter in the date and time of the contact and it shows no match. Perhaps
they have a bad computer.


73 De Mike
VE3YF

Maybe it's a daylight savings time issue. Try adding or subtracting an hour.


My computer is set for UTC, so time never changes, and all my other QSO's are correct. Learn't that lesson many moons ago. Oh well worst case scenario I will just work them again. Going to be cools and wet the next few days and no outdoor work to do, so I will stay in the shack.

73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 04, 2014, 05:05:42 AM
That contact put me on a roll. I worked them in 3 more slots yesterday after that 12m ssb QSO.

I've had the same kind of experience. I couldn't break through on 10m RTTY on Saturday morning/afternoon, but then managed a 15m SSB with some effort Saturday evening. Since then I've had 3 more easy QSOs, each needing only a few minutes.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE4TTH on November 04, 2014, 05:35:39 AM
The question I have is, "why"? I've only been a ham for 3 1/2 years, but the jamming, and just plain bad operating practice is simply amazing! When the DX station is calling for a K4W station only, I can hear all sorts of people shouting out their call signs, none of whom even come close to what the DX is responding to!

Being still relatively new to this hobby, I have to say that I expected better.

I haven't been able to break through the pile ups yet, at least I don't think I have, because of all the interference that slams this dxpedition, it's hard to tell sometimes if they are responding. So I move on to other parts of the band in frustration and disgust.

Sure would be nice to make a list of "bad operators heard", and publish it for all to see, and to shame the operator.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 04, 2014, 06:04:54 AM
When the DX station is calling for a K4W station only, I can hear all sorts of people shouting out their call signs, none of whom even come close to what the DX is responding to!

The out-of-turn calling behavior has reached an unbearable level with me.  This is the primary reason why the work rate is slow and that one cannot even find the DX's QSX when everyone's calling non-stop.  I'm 100% in agreement with Rick K6VVA that the bully LIDs need to be called out and scolded on the air.  This hobby has simply degraded to the lowest levels...

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N6PSE on November 04, 2014, 06:50:29 AM
I too dislike out of turn callers, however I might have been one yesterday. FT4TA had a great signal on 30 CW last night at our sunset however the jammers and tuners were making it extremely difficult. Due to the DQRM I may have called out of turn, it was very difficult going. I've only been able to make one 20 meter SSB contact from California.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 04, 2014, 06:54:53 AM
When the DX station is calling for a K4W station only, I can hear all sorts of people shouting out their call signs, none of whom even come close to what the DX is responding to!

The out-of-turn calling behavior has reached an unbearable level with me.  This is the primary reason why the work rate is slow and that one cannot even find the DX's QSX when everyone's calling non-stop.  I'm 100% in agreement with Rick K6VVA that the bully LIDs need to be called out and scolded on the air.  This hobby has simply degraded to the lowest levels...

73,
Jonathan W6GX

I've heard many VERY well known callsigns in there incessantly calling regardless of what call DX op is trying to resolve, phone & cw. I've a good mind to make a list and post it,they should know better ::) :o

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 04, 2014, 07:15:17 AM
Not to validate out of turn callers, but without QSK and with them working such a slow rate it would not be uncommon for me to send my callsign while THEY were calling someone else. I would not HEAR them asking for the other guy (since I was transmitting), so I send my call again.  "Out of turn" only because I did not know it was ANYONES turn!

The 80 M CW op was good last night, I think that will be my best shot. The pile was only 5 kc or so, I think lots of USA DXers don't hear well on 80 (thank goodness for RX antennas!).

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 04, 2014, 07:16:20 AM
When the DX station is calling for a K4W station only, I can hear all sorts of people shouting out their call signs, none of whom even come close to what the DX is responding to!

The out-of-turn calling behavior has reached an unbearable level with me.  This is the primary reason why the work rate is slow and that one cannot even find the DX's QSX when everyone's calling non-stop.  I'm 100% in agreement with Rick K6VVA that the bully LIDs need to be called out and scolded on the air.  This hobby has simply degraded to the lowest levels...

73,
Jonathan W6GX

I've heard many VERY well known callsigns in there incessantly calling regardless of what call DX op is trying to resolve, phone & cw. I've a good mind to make a list and post it,they should know better ::) :o



I'm sure everybody with a panadapter has noticed that when FT4TA calls a station most of the stations just keep sending their calls over and over and over again.

Stan, K9IUQ:  Thanks for the time.  That was a big help!

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 04, 2014, 07:24:36 AM
Not to validate out of turn callers, but without QSK and with them working such a slow rate it would not be uncommon for me to send my callsign while THEY were calling someone else. I would not HEAR them asking for the other guy (since I was transmitting), so I send my call again.  "Out of turn" only because I did not know it was ANYONES turn!

The 80 M CW op was good last night, I think that will be my best shot. The pile was only 5 kc or so, I think lots of USA DXers don't hear well on 80 (thank goodness for RX antennas!).

paul

Wouldn't the reverse be more likely, Paul?  If FT4TA was working them at a very fast rate I think there would be more doubling up.  There have been times I've hit the button to send my call in CW and I hear FT4TA at the same time.  I just hit the terminate button.

Also, with regard to 80 meters, if many don't hear them well on 80 meters they don't belong in the pileup, IMO.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 04, 2014, 07:32:39 AM
But for a quick rate, when I know the guy gets the call correct the first time and quickly (like G3TXF) you send your call ONCE and listen to who he comes back to. In operations like that I usually send my callsign ONCE and then listen to who he comes back to. But if his "response" time is like 15 seconds, I call and listen...  and then I call and listen ... and then I call and listen... and it is possible/likely that during one of the "calls" he transmits "K5?", I don't hear it, so I "call and listen..." again.

I am sure we both agree. Accidents happen, my repeatedly sending my call right after he sends "K5?" over and over is pretty obvious.

I think this is the first time in my life I wish I had a panadaptor. However, with so many out of turn callers does it really help much? If the pile-up were orderly I could see the ONE guy answering the DX, but now we have 300 guys "answering the DX".

It is a royal mess. Peter I was not nearly this bad.

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 04, 2014, 07:42:00 AM
Not to validate out of turn callers, but without QSK and with them working such a slow rate it would not be uncommon for me to send my callsign while THEY were calling someone else. I would not HEAR them asking for the other guy (since I was transmitting), so I send my call again.  "Out of turn" only because I did not know it was ANYONES turn!

The 80 M CW op was good last night, I think that will be my best shot. The pile was only 5 kc or so, I think lots of USA DXers don't hear well on 80 (thank goodness for RX antennas!).

paul

Hi Paul,

There's no excuse.  You need to turn on QSK if your rig. has this feature.  I'm not sure if all rigs do.  It's an invaluable tool.  I have a short call and I only send it once.  Sometimes the DX Op would respond to a station before my call is finished.  When that happens I hit the memory keyer immediately and that stops the sending.  With QSK there's little chance of doubling up with the DX causing QRM to other stations.  It also helps you to hear the DX whenever they are transmitting in case they are responding to you.  I don't have mine set to a very fast speed such that the RX is open between dits.  I set mine just enough so that the RX is open between letters.

What amazes me is that even when the Op is sending a reply with a signal report people still call on-stop.

Congrats on your 80m contact.  That's a good one for sure.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 04, 2014, 07:47:02 AM
I think this is the first time in my life I wish I had a panadaptor. However, with so many out of turn callers does it really help much? If the pile-up were orderly I could see the ONE guy answering the DX, but now we have 300 guys "answering the DX".

I have a panadaptor and a second receiver.  They are completely useless in finding the QSX.  They only useful thing they do is to help me find a 'hole' in the pileup.

Sadly to say it doesn't take much skill to work FT4TA.  Just RF brute force and some luck.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K7KB on November 04, 2014, 07:50:05 AM
They are on 40M CW right now with a decent signal into the West Coast. First time I've heard them operating on 40 in the morning our time. I was glad to work them on this band, but I don't think I'll bother with 80M. Too much noise at my QTH.

John K7KB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 04, 2014, 07:56:58 AM
They are on 40M CW right now with a decent signal into the West Coast. First time I've heard them operating on 40 in the morning our time. I was glad to work them on this band, but I don't think I'll bother with 80M. Too much noise at my QTH.

Congrats on the contact John!  I too was in the fray but I had resigned to the tuner and LIDS.  Hopefully tomorrow they will show up a bit earlier for me.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 04, 2014, 07:59:55 AM
It is a royal mess.

Every band, every mode. It has gotten worse since they started. Thursday night and Friday were a cakewalk, compared to Saturday and later.

We always seem to read about the "bad" EU ops. NA is giving them a run for the money this go around.

He is on 17m ssb, and EU won't stop calling while he is trying to work W6/W7,and W6/W7 won't stop calling on top of each other.

K5 sounds just like W7, etc..... And EC7 is on the west coast.  ::)

People just      won't     stop     calling.

So now, he left.  
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K7KB on November 04, 2014, 08:19:03 AM
They are on 40M CW right now with a decent signal into the West Coast. First time I've heard them operating on 40 in the morning our time. I was glad to work them on this band, but I don't think I'll bother with 80M. Too much noise at my QTH.

Congrats on the contact John!  I too was in the fray but I had resigned to the tuner and LIDS.  Hopefully tomorrow they will show up a bit earlier for me.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

The zoo finally settled down a bit before they faded out so hopefully they will give it another shot tomorrow at the same time. Keep at it Jon!

John K7KB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AE5X on November 04, 2014, 08:24:36 AM
It is a royal mess.

Every band, every mode. It has gotten worse since they started. Thursday night and Friday were a cakewalk, compared to Saturday and later.


Kinda makes me wonder how this affects those who make DXpeditions happen. To know that the results of their money and efforts are going to be met with on-the-air profanity, jamming and unruly callers would certainly dampen the motivation of some DXpeditioners, I would think.

John AE5X
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N8CM on November 04, 2014, 09:20:16 AM
It is a royal mess.

Every band, every mode. It has gotten worse since they started. Thursday night and Friday were a cakewalk, compared to Saturday and later.


Kinda makes me wonder how this affects those who make DXpeditions happen. To know that the results of their money and efforts are going to be met with on-the-air profanity, jamming and unruly callers would certainly dampen the motivation of some DXpeditioners, I would think.

John AE5X


I know I would get frustrated with the BS that goes on. Listening the other day on 20m CW, people calling on their XMIT freq, stepping on each other etc. I gave up trying and will come back at the tail end of their stay to try again.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 04, 2014, 09:32:39 AM
RE: Getting worse instead of getting better

Thru the years I've typically tried to work the DXpedition early on, the first day for example.  We here and other true DXers follow DX more closely than your typical ham.
Its like finding out about a shoe sale - buy a few - then you tell your friends.  After that, all the idiots come out to play.  A day or two later you have what we have now.
I have my RTTY contact, I'm happy, just waiting for things to die down so I can try 10, 12 and 15m band slots.  I can hear them on 10m in the morning but not a chance unless
they listen for W6/W7.

They really should just leave RTTY on 20m.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 04, 2014, 09:48:59 AM
Do you guys think a dedicated op running 20 meters 24/7 would help? I know if I made my one Q for an ATNO I would be done with this; I don't care what band it is on (but I do care what mode, I only operate CW).

I think people are freaking out for an ATNO and we are going to EVERY BAND EVERY TIME to try to get SOMETHING. If we could count on 20 meters every day for people to get their ATNO I suspect more guys would lay off all the other bands. Maybe just wishful thinking.

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6DXO on November 04, 2014, 10:01:05 AM
Guys...

Here are the stats from the Nov 3 FT4TA log update.

I was very surprised to see that North America only accounts for about 27% of the total Q's.

I've been fortunate to have worked them on a total of 6 band/modes and each time the op was calling for North America.

I was expecting a percentage closer to at least 33%.

What do you think...?

     Breakdown by Continent
Continent   Total QSOs   %
Africa                  336   1.2
Antarctica           3   0.0
Asia                  3381   12.0
Europe         16159     57.4
North America   7477   26.5
Oceania          380   1.3
South America    439   1.6
Totals          28175   100.0


73 de harry, W6DXO
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: PE5T on November 04, 2014, 10:40:33 AM
What I think Harry?

You alone are responsble for 0,1% of these 26,5% NA QSOs. Blame you! 5 other NA Hams missed their qso due to your egoism.

More serious, the Ops are doing a good job with special attention to the west coast.
However, your observation is meaningless as is your 33%
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 04, 2014, 10:46:27 AM
What a rude responce ????


What I think Harry?

You alone are responsble for 0,1% of these 26,5% NA QSOs. Blame you! 5 other NA Hams missed their qso due to your egoism.

More serious, the Ops are doing a good job with special attention to the west coast.
However, your observation is meaningless as is your 33%
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KH6DC on November 04, 2014, 10:55:32 AM
So far 0, nada here in Hawaii at my qth.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 04, 2014, 11:12:30 AM
Do you guys think a dedicated op running 20 meters 24/7 would help? I know if I made my one Q for an ATNO I would be done with this; I don't care what band it is on (but I do care what mode, I only operate CW).

I think people are freaking out for an ATNO and we are going to EVERY BAND EVERY TIME to try to get SOMETHING. If we could count on 20 meters every day for people to get their ATNO I suspect more guys would lay off all the other bands. Maybe just wishful thinking.

paul

A dedicated 20 meter Op is not going to happen.

According to today's "Daily DX"

20m will be the less used band since previous activity from
Tromelin was centred around this band. Do not expect that much
activity on 20.


I don't see why what happened on the last expedition should affect this one especially since it was quite a long time ago.

They obviously went to Tromelin Island because there was great demand.  I think what happened during the last expedition to Tromelin is irrelevant.

I'm going to write to my pilot and tell him I strongly disagree with their operating plan for 20 meters.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 04, 2014, 11:36:44 AM
Do you guys think a dedicated op running 20 meters 24/7 would help? I know if I made my one Q for an ATNO I would be done with this; I don't care what band it is on (but I do care what mode, I only operate CW).

I think people are freaking out for an ATNO and we are going to EVERY BAND EVERY TIME to try to get SOMETHING. If we could count on 20 meters every day for people to get their ATNO I suspect more guys would lay off all the other bands. Maybe just wishful thinking.

paul

A dedicated 20 meter Op is not going to happen.

According to today's "Daily DX"

20m will be the less used band since previous activity from
Tromelin was centred around this band. Do not expect that much
activity on 20.


I don't see why what happened on the last expedition should affect this one especially since it was quite a long time ago.

They obviously went to Tromelin Island because there was great demand.  I think what happened during the last expedition to Tromelin is irrelevant.

I'm going to write to my pilot and tell him I strongly disagree with their operating plan for 20 meters.

73,

Chris  NU1O

I disagree with the 20M position too.

DXing, especially the most wanted entities, has totally become a big station bandfill game.  Of the ClubLog users, FT4TA so far was a new DXCC for only 28% of the QSOs made.  The rest were band and mode fills.  I find that staggering for the #8 most wanted DXCC.

And you don't need to tell me to get a better station.  I already know.  :)

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K5PS on November 04, 2014, 12:02:44 PM
Quote
20m will be the less used band since previous activity from
Tromelin was centred around this band. Do not expect that much
activity on 20.

That's a very unfortunate attitude for them to have since some of the best signals I've heard from them are on 20m. Definitely makes me regret voting in favor of a generous donation from the DX club I belong to.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 04, 2014, 12:22:15 PM
The 80 M CW op was good last night, I think that will be my best shot. The pile was only 5 kc or so, I think lots of USA DXers don't hear well on 80 (thank goodness for RX antennas!).

Also, with regard to 80 meters, if many don't hear them well on 80 meters they don't belong in the pileup, IMO.

73,

Chris  NU1O


I worked them last nite on 80m at 0016UTC and it is in their log. It was right after my Grey line and about 20 minutes later I could no longer hear them. I do not have a separate RX antenna but do use a QS1R for panafall. The panafall is very useful.

They were very readable but not real strong. My 80m antenna is inverted V at 55ft off the tower and 25 ft at ends. Center fed with open wire. Legal Limit naturally, 100 watts ain't gonna cut it on 80m for these guys.

I live in a small village, not real noisy but not as quiet as I would like either.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: MM0NDX on November 04, 2014, 12:28:48 PM
FLASH NEWS - LoTW upload in progress for FT4TA, a first for a Top 10 DXCC entity during expedition!

73 Col, MM0NDX
Chief Pilot FT4TA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 04, 2014, 12:30:54 PM
K0YQ,
In my view - in that respect -  Clublog does not represent the true picture, it is jaded.  It only shows those who subscribe to it and send in their logs.
There are many DXers who could give a #$%^ about clublog stats and only use it to send for cards.

Great news Colin, good idea, hope this will reduce the pileups concerning dups.

2 out of 4 LOTW confirmed, still crunching
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 04, 2014, 12:41:25 PM
I was home all day today but the only time I heard them was on 30cw.. but it was a EU wall at that point. Will see what the late afternoon/evening brings. Just want one QSO at this point.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AA6YQ on November 04, 2014, 12:46:19 PM
I have a panadaptor and a second receiver.  They are completely useless in finding the QSX.  They only useful thing they do is to help me find a 'hole' in the pileup.

In a 20 KHz wide CW pileup, finding the QSX often takes more than one QSO to accomplish, even with a panadaptor. I flipped between two "modes": find the QSX, and call in a hole near the QSX. It still took nearly 2 hours.

One of the SSB operators tends to camp on a frequency for several QSOs, and prefers frequencies that are even multiples of 5 KHz. After observing this while making a needed QSO on 10m SSB, I gave it a try on 15m SSB and was able to make a QSO within a few minutes. A small sample size, but...

         73,

                 Dave, AA6YQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K4JK on November 04, 2014, 12:58:17 PM

I disagree with the 20M position too.

DXing, especially the most wanted entities, has totally become a big station bandfill game.  Of the ClubLog users, FT4TA so far was a new DXCC for only 28% of the QSOs made.  The rest were band and mode fills.  I find that staggering for the #8 most wanted DXCC.

And you don't need to tell me to get a better station.  I already know.  :)


Yes this is a head-scratcher, considering the #1 goal on the expedition website (in big bold letters) is:

Quote
An opportunity to take Tromelin off the top 10 list

If that's really the goal then you'd think they would try to wring a band out 24x7. 20 meters should be open to somewhere from FR/T pretty much round the clock.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 04, 2014, 01:10:45 PM

I disagree with the 20M position too.

DXing, especially the most wanted entities, has totally become a big station bandfill game.  Of the ClubLog users, FT4TA so far was a new DXCC for only 28% of the QSOs made.  The rest were band and mode fills.  I find that staggering for the #8 most wanted DXCC.

And you don't need to tell me to get a better station.  I already know.  :)

I stand guilty as charged.  For me FT4TA is a band fill game.  I feel no differently about working Tromelin than guys that need it for an ATNO; it may be years before I get another shot at working new bands.  I don't consider myself a big station.  I work rare stations when I can, where I can.  Maybe I flatter myself, but I try to use my wits instead of brute force.  I hardly think my one QSO per band (usually one mode too) stops anyone from working a DX station for an ATNO.  If you want to be upset with somebody or something, blame the non-stop callers, lids and cops.  They prevent far, far more QSOs than anyone working bandfills.  Can you seriously tell me not to call a DX station, on 12m CW for example, because someone's G5RV doesn't work well there and I should "give him a chance?"  Where does that end?  Next time someone manages a DXpedtion to Tromelin?  

Obviously everyone here is searching for answers.  It's simply inexplicable that callers do things that defy common sense.  The DX isn't going to answer station "XYZ" when he asks for "ABC."  He's not going to answer someone when he himself is transmitting.  He's not going to answer a simplex caller when he just said "UP."  Yet people call and call.  It boggles the mind.

The driver for this behavior is of course the ARRL's DXCC program.  Other organizations offer similar awards, but that is the big one.  In fact that is the reason for DXpeditions to exist.  We are the deserving.  We want to "work them all."  ARRL's entity list is the arbiter of what constitutes a  "country" worldwide.  They could make it easier...only "real" countries with an indigenous ham population, for example.  Would that be any fun?  An award where anyone could "work 'em all" in only a couple of years, or indeed, maybe a few months?  Is that what we really want?

DXing was ever thus: those that can do, those that can't bitch.  Yeah, it's hard.  It's supposed to be.  Get better.  Accept your limitations.  Change the things that you can.  Wonder at the lids and their nonsensical operating, but be better than they are.  Do better.  One percent of the ops in a pileup understand what's happening.  Be in that select group.  Know when to walk away to fight another day.  Many times I've given up on a pileup to have a cup of coffee and clear my head, only to come back later and pop the DX in a couple of calls.  Read Cass for perspective.  Understand what he meant when he spoke of the "mysteries of DXing."  Tomorrow is a new day.  The great days of DX are at hand.  Did you hear?  Bouvet is coming!  Then, who knows?  P5?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 04, 2014, 01:19:29 PM
I'm not quite sure what makes this one different or more difficult to get through. New Amsterdam if I understand it was high up there on the most wanted (was it #5 or 6?). I heard them less, used the same antenna and managed to get 3 contacts with them... the first qso within 3 or 4 days. I don't know whats different about Tromelin but this one seems a lot harder despite hearing them way more than I did New Amsterdam. I'll keep plugging away but boy will I be relieved if I get a contact in the log.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 04, 2014, 01:35:36 PM
I'm just about positive I made a 20 meter RTTY contact but it didn't count.  AS SOON as I unkeyed I got the NO NA rebuke, however, they are sending UP many, many times but they don't send NO NA until a NA breaks through.  Go figure.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA2VUY on November 04, 2014, 01:38:03 PM
There were exactly 2x the operators at FT5ZM compared to FT4TA which would have enabled more concurrent stations, that would have reduced the concentration of callers on a particular band.  That's one difference....

I'm not quite sure what makes this one different or more difficult to get through. New Amsterdam if I understand it was high up there on the most wanted (was it #5 or 6?). I heard them less, used the same antenna and managed to get 3 contacts with them... the first qso within 3 or 4 days. I don't know whats different about Tromelin but this one seems a lot harder despite hearing them way more than I did New Amsterdam. I'll keep plugging away but boy will I be relieved if I get a contact in the log.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 04, 2014, 01:47:45 PM

I disagree with the 20M position too.

DXing, especially the most wanted entities, has totally become a big station bandfill game.  Of the ClubLog users, FT4TA so far was a new DXCC for only 28% of the QSOs made.  The rest were band and mode fills.  I find that staggering for the #8 most wanted DXCC.

And you don't need to tell me to get a better station.  I already know.  :)

I stand guilty as charged.  For me FT4TA is a band fill game.  I feel no differently about working Tromelin than guys that need it for an ATNO; it may be years for I get another shot at working new bands.  I don't consider myself a big station.  I work rare stations when I can, where I can.  Maybe I flatter myself, but I try to use my wits instead of brute force.  I hardly think my one QSO per band (usually one mode too) stops anyone from working a DX station for an ATNO.  If you want to be upset with somebody or something, blame the non-stop callers, lids and cops.  They prevent far, far more QSOs than anyone working bandfills.  Can you seriously tell me not to call a DX station, on 12m CW for example, because someone's G5RV doesn't work well there and I should "give him a chance?"  Where does that end?  Next time someone manages a DXpedtion to Tromelin?  

Obviously everyone here is searching for answers.  It's simply inexplicable that callers do things that defy common sense.  The DX isn't going to answer station "XYZ" when he asks for "ABC."  He's not going to answer someone when he himself transmitting.  He's not going to answer a simplex caller when he just said "UP."  Yet people call and call.  It boggles the mind.

The driver for this behavior is of course the ARRL's DXCC program.  Other organizations offer similar awards, but that is the big one.  In fact that is the reason for DXpeditions to exist.  We are the deserving.  We want to "work them all."  ARRL's entity list is the arbiter of what constitutes a  "country" worldwide.  They could make it easier...only "real" countries with an indigenous ham population, for example.  Would that be any fun?  An award where anyone could "work 'em all" in only a couple of years, or indeed, maybe a few months?  Is that what we really want?

DXing was ever thus: those that can do, those that can't bitch.  Yeah, it's hard.  It's supposed to be.  Get better.  Accept your limitations.  Change the things that you can.  Wonder at the lids and their nonsensical operating, but be better than they are.  Do better.  One percent of the ops in a pileup understand what's happening.  Be in that select group.  Know when to walk away to fight another day.  Many times I've given up on a pileup to have a cup of coffee and clear my head, only to come back later and pop the DX in a couple of calls.  Read Cass for perspective.  Understand what he meant when he spoke of the "mysteries of DXing."  Tomorrow is a new day.  The great days of DX are at hand.  Did you hear?  Bouvet is coming!  Then, who knows?  P5?

You're not guilty of anything and sorry if I was perceived as bitching.  I throw my shekels up front in $upport of every major DXped knowing I might not get into the log.  But when I read that a top ten entity is not going to focus on 20M I think I can express some concern.  Some of us are still out here and 20M is by far the best shot at an ATNO.

Great signal 20 RTTY right now but the cops, lids, and jammers make it next to impossible.  Sad.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VK3HJ on November 04, 2014, 01:52:24 PM
Ditto what K0RS wrote.

I've been fortunate to work this one on 5 bands, CW. I don't expect a chance to work them on any others, maybe 80 m. I will be out all day for the next five, so will only have a chance maybe at their sunset for low bands.

By this time, I had worked FT5ZM on all bands and three modes, but that was a much bigger operation than this one.

So, I'm happy with what I have.

Good luck to those still chasing!

73,
Luke VK3HJ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 04, 2014, 01:54:31 PM
I think it's about time that someone develop a software that highlights a DX'er call on RTTY who hasn't yet made ANY contact with the dxpedition.  Better yet, someone who hasn't made a contact yet and who's an advanced donor (i.e. K0YQ).

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 04, 2014, 02:02:44 PM
Great signal 20 RTTY right now but the cops, lids, and jammers make it next to impossible.  Sad.

Yep - I just posted some of it in the other FT4TA thread (should have done it here). But when I finally get a signal it's ruined by idiots. The heck with this mess I'm going back to JT65 where people are well behaved.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 04, 2014, 02:12:17 PM
But when I finally get a signal it's ruined by idiots. The heck with this mess I'm going back to JT65 where people are well behaved.

Sorry but Real Dxers do NOT give up, nor do they rely on JT-65 for their Dx rush..
Stop your bitching and whining and do something. Hang in there, keep trying or improve your station or do anything except being a crybaby on eham...

The hams that are working them are dealing with the same idiots you are hearing.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 04, 2014, 02:20:45 PM
...
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7NUW on November 04, 2014, 02:25:59 PM
Quote
A dedicated 20 meter Op is not going to happen.

According to today's "Daily DX"

20m will be the less used band since previous activity from
Tromelin was centred around this band. Do not expect that much
activity on 20.

I don't see why what happened on the last expedition should affect this one especially since it was quite a long time ago.

They obviously went to Tromelin Island because there was great demand.  I think what happened during the last expedition to Tromelin is irrelevant.

I'm going to write to my pilot and tell him I strongly disagree with their operating plan for 20 meters.

73,

Chris  NU1O

Absolutely agree. And the bandfill guys who are building out the spread will already have 20 m and go elsewhere. I have written twice using the FT4TA contact box on their website. Can you tell me where I can find the W6/W7 pilot or otherwise get out the message?

I want to repeat also that aiming long path (south) is almost certainly the way to get signals to the western half of NA. And 80 meters is not going to do it unless you've got real quiet surroundings, and lots of room for an antenna farm!

Ken W7NUW
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 04, 2014, 02:28:10 PM
Quote
Sorry but Real Dxers do NOT give up,

Sorry, but "real DXers" are anyone who works DX.  There is no obligation to put up with the crazies any more than it is required to QSL, apply for awards, work 'em all, and much else that someone, somewhere says you must do to be a "real DXer".

That said, the best revenge is to simply work the DX anyway.  But, truth is, I've shut off the rig sometimes or gone on to other things, too.  You don't have to work the DX during the madness to get the revenge, though it is better if you do.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 04, 2014, 02:30:51 PM
As for 20 meters, I live in Arizona and worked them on 10 and 12 meters between 1800 and 1900Z before I worked them on 20.  There is propagation to the US West on several bands and quite reliable, too.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 04, 2014, 02:32:58 PM

Sorry but Real Dxers do NOT give up, nor do they rely on JT-65 for their Dx rush..

The hell you say? JT65 isn't "real" DX? Really? REALLY? Wow I had no idea the ATNOs I got from JT65 were not "real" DX oh Great God of the rules of DX. Shoud I purge them from my log oh Great One? It's funny how the ARRL counts them as real DX! WTF?

Sorry, but "real DXers" are anyone who works DX.  There is no obligation to put up with the crazies any more than it is required to QSL, apply for awards, work 'em all, and much else that someone, somewhere says you must do to be a "real DXer".

That said, the best revenge is to simply work the DX anyway.  But, truth is, I've shut off the rig sometimes or gone on to other things, too.  You don't have to work the DX during the madness to get the revenge, though it is better if you do.

Thanks.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 04, 2014, 02:40:16 PM
As for 20 meters, I live in Arizona and worked them on 10 and 12 meters between 1800 and 1900Z before I worked them on 20.  There is propagation to the US West on several bands and quite reliable, too.

I've been focusing on 12 and 10 as VOACAP also predicted those bands were my best shot.  I copied them very well several times those bands 1800-1900Z, and swore I logged them on 10 SSB.  That was a very convincing Slim that I worked.  Sure sounded like them...

My best signals have consistently been 20M tho.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 04, 2014, 03:11:32 PM
The hell you say? JT65 isn't "real" DX? Really? REALLY?

JT-65 is for those with minimal stations and for hams that do not have the skills or station for working big DX pileups. Try Working FT4TA on JT-65.  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I would not would brag about working JT-65. It is for the wantabee whiner DXers that can not work Dx any other way... No Skill necessary, just sit and watch the grass grow..

If this  offends you, too bad. It is what most hard working Dxers are thinking.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 04, 2014, 03:14:41 PM
Stan K9IUQ


--> http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,99746.0.html
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K4JK on November 04, 2014, 03:15:39 PM
Don't feed the trolls.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 04, 2014, 03:17:13 PM
Finally got my needed RTTY QSO's in the log! One on 20m RTTY and one on 17m RTTY this evening.

Truly a great day for DXing!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WX2S on November 04, 2014, 03:21:39 PM
Still looking for ONE confirmed QSO. Any band, any mode.

- WX2S
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on November 04, 2014, 03:23:55 PM
Finally got my needed RTTY QSO's in the log! One on 20m RTTY and one on 17m RTTY this evening.

Truly a great day for DXing!

Congrats....I would like to get them on RTTY and CW also. Since I have never made a CW contact this might not be the dxpedition to try.  ;D With my rookie ear I may get accused of all manner of CW offences.  
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 04, 2014, 03:32:50 PM
So I think I *may* have worked them on 20m rtty?

I saw a perfect KB2FCV 599 KB2FCV...

I sent a FT4TA DE KB2FCV 599 599 TU.

I didn't see any reply.. sent the same thing two more times.. no reply. Not sure I will be in the log or not. Perhaps he replied with his TU on my second reply? I logged it.. I'm hopeful but we'll see.

Edit: He has a great sig on 20m.. would you guys try to re-work them for a better QSO or live with that and see if he's in the log on the next update?

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO2C on November 04, 2014, 05:24:27 PM
Still looking for ONE confirmed QSO. Any band, any mode.

- WX2S


As am I, Steve.

73,

Ray, WO2C
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3NRX on November 04, 2014, 05:29:01 PM
Can't hear anything....no copy on any band.....this really SUCKS!!!!!!!!......Bad feeling this one is going to be a major let down.....Sick and tired of lousy conditions and lidfests......I think I am going to keep the radio off for a while....this misery has become quite old.....

V
K3NRX

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KY6R on November 04, 2014, 05:45:18 PM
Just worked them on 30M with an amazing gray line "enhancement" that lasted less than a half hour. Came up from no where, hit S9 +20 and now back into the noise.

Now that was way cool. I used my 60' 160M hatted vertical but with the matching circuit tuned to 30M. So it ends up being a 5/8th wl vertical on 30M. 100 buried radials helps (a LOT). Geez - that was a lot more fun than struggling on 160M -  ;D

Will try one more band - 40M CW the next couple of mornings - so I can test my phased vertical array in the "heat of battle". Then I am done. Guess I couldn't eat just one potato chip after all.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 04, 2014, 06:04:36 PM
Stan...... quit feeding the troll(s).   

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 04, 2014, 06:13:27 PM
Stan...... quit feeding the troll(s).   

73, Gene AF3Y

They are hungry for a FT4TA QSO. That is why they are crying and moaning, they are SO hungry.  ;) :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 04, 2014, 06:13:54 PM
Stan...... quit feeding the troll(s).   

73, Gene AF3Y

He is more a troll than anyone. He insists that his point of view is the only acceptable one. Sorry, that won't fly with me.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 04, 2014, 06:14:13 PM
Can't hear anything....no copy on any band.....this really SUCKS!!!!!!!!......Bad feeling this one is going to be a major let down.....Sick and tired of lousy conditions and lidfests.....
V
K3NRX

Vinnie my friend, the propagation condx have not been too bad. If you can not hear them you have some real problems with your system. I copy them here on 40 mtrs easy with both my dipole and Vertical. I worked them on 80m cw last nite with just a run of the mill 130' dipole. Nuthin fancy and I only have a TS-590s, no high dollar rigs here.

It may be time to re-think your old Kenwood or put up a better antenna.
I ain't saying none of this to harass you either, I want you to work them.

The lids and idiots, well I think the more we complain about them, the worse they get.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 04, 2014, 09:29:39 PM
So I think I *may* have worked them on 20m rtty?

I saw a perfect KB2FCV 599 KB2FCV...

I sent a FT4TA DE KB2FCV 599 599 TU.

My I suggest you leave off the "FT4TA DE", they know who they are and it shortens things up, (no need to send that when you are calling, either, just your call) and just send

qsl, 599 599 KB2FCV tu

Some leave their call out of the reply, I don't. YMMV.

Hope you got 'em.

73, Tom
N5MOA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 04, 2014, 09:46:17 PM
qsl, 599 599 KB2FCV tu

Some leave their call out of the reply, I don't. YMMV.

I leave my call out.  YMMV.

RR 5NN TU
or
FB 5NN TU

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 04, 2014, 09:48:27 PM
Still looking for ONE confirmed QSO. Any band, any mode.

As I posted on FB, you're absolutely welcome to come up here and try it from my QTH (with your call) if you'd like. A little extra aluminum is probably all that's needed.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 04, 2014, 09:56:21 PM
qsl, 599 599 KB2FCV tu

Some leave their call out of the reply, I don't. YMMV.
I leave my call out.  YMMV.
RR 5NN TU
or
FB 5NN TU

Not me. While I won't send their call, I will absolutely send my call at least once during the report in case there was an error in print on their end or if copy was rough on my end. I've seen partials come through with good timing that I assume are sent back to me, but I'll be damned if I'll let them bust my call.
If I see ...LFGTW24RT 599W25RT KN come back in time to my call, especially when I know I have the right QSX, you bet your bippy I'm sending DE W2IRT 599 599 TU W2IRT SK. Yeah, it should probably be 229 but who cares. I'm not one to rock the boat ;D Point being, if condx are rough but I'm 99% convinced I'm the guy he's calling, I'm sending my own call at least once and probably twice. On the other hand if the copy is 100% and I get: W2IRT W2IRT 599 KN, I'm sending "599 TU" and that's it.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 04, 2014, 11:05:53 PM
Allow me to clarify.  If I didn't fully copy my call OR they have a mistake on my call, I will resend my call without attaching a signal report.  Once I have fully copied my call I will send my signal report without my call.  If I have a perfect copy of my call there's absolutely no point of resending my call.  That's what I was trying to say.

Now on RTTY I always resend my call.  Don't ask me why :P

RR UR 599 DE W6GX TU

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3NRX on November 05, 2014, 03:54:59 AM
Vinnie my friend, the propagation condx have not been too bad. If you can not hear them you have some real problems with your system. I copy them here on 40 mtrs easy with both my dipole and Vertical. I worked them on 80m cw last nite with just a run of the mill 130' dipole. Nuthin fancy and I only have a TS-590s, no high dollar rigs here.

It may be time to re-think your old Kenwood or put up a better antenna.
I ain't saying none of this to harass you either, I want you to work them.

The lids and idiots, well I think the more we complain about them, the worse they get.

Stan K9IUQ

Stosh:

The numbers are 129, 21 and 3...the magnetic field is not cooperating..the conditions SUCK!.....and just so you know, I wasn't on the Kenwood....I was on my Yaesu FT857 D, with all of the DSP filtering and everything.....which in my opinion is a far superior receiver than the 440S (for obvious reasons)......as for the lids and idiots, well I am really struggling with this......and I am tired of dealing with a zoo everytime I need an ATNO...and it's really making me  rethink my dx goal of going for generic mixed honor roll....Amsterdam Island was a tiptoe thru the tulips compared to this nightmare.....here's hoping that my complining on E-ham leads to an FT4TA qso.....as these dxpeditions go on, it usually does.....but this time, I am not so sure.....

V
K3NRX

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 05, 2014, 04:19:50 AM
Thanks guys for the advice. I dropped the "his call" from the macro to shorten it up a bit and leaving my own call at the end. I'll also perhaps make a second macro for an even shorter exchange without my call. Yep, I'm hoping perhaps he started copying my long exchange and moved on? Or maybe I jumped the gun a little when I didn't see him come back right away and we were sending at the same time on my second exchange sent. The next log upload should reveal the results.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 05, 2014, 04:53:36 AM
Thanks guys for the advice. I dropped the "his call" from the macro to shorten it up a bit and leaving my own call at the end. I'll also perhaps make a second macro for an even shorter exchange without my call. Yep, I'm hoping perhaps he started copying my long exchange and moved on? Or maybe I jumped the gun a little when I didn't see him come back right away and we were sending at the same time on my second exchange sent. The next log upload should reveal the results.

Fingers crossed for you.  You might also consider leaving off the "DE".  "599 599 TU/73 KB2FCV" is good, and when calling just send your call 3 or 4 times.  No need for "DE".  JIMO.

I am very glad that the team stuck with 20M.  I hope they consider running that band until the rates really die down.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 05, 2014, 05:01:36 AM
Thanks guys for the advice. I dropped the "his call" from the macro to shorten it up a bit and leaving my own call at the end. I'll also perhaps make a second macro for an even shorter exchange without my call. Yep, I'm hoping perhaps he started copying my long exchange and moved on? Or maybe I jumped the gun a little when I didn't see him come back right away and we were sending at the same time on my second exchange sent. The next log upload should reveal the results.

I have a few different macros. 0x3 and 0x4 for calling, and short and long macros for easy/difficult QSOs. I use Dave's DX Lab Suite, and WinWarbler handles all the calling and logging duties, so in addition to switching the radio into and out of transmit, it also calculates the time of day at the DX's location and sends a greeting like "GE" or "GM", etc, spots the QSO, with QSX, to the cluster and logs the contact.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 05, 2014, 05:03:58 AM
...here's hoping that my complining on E-ham leads to an FT4TA qso.....as these dxpeditions go on, it usually does...

Please explain the mechanism by which complaining on eHam results in a QSO with a DXpedition.

Come to think of it, a scientific study of the phenomenon would require you to refrain from complaining while attempting to obtain a QSO. I don't believe that part of the space has ever been explored.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 05, 2014, 05:23:20 AM
...here's hoping that my complining on E-ham leads to an FT4TA qso.....as these dxpeditions go on, it usually does...

Please explain the mechanism by which complaining on eHam results in a QSO with a DXpedition.

Complaining makes one feel better. When you feel better, your chances of making that coveted DX contact increases.

This feel better thingy also helps those that do not complain. These hams make a Coveted first QSO and they feel better. The pressure is off. The contact is in both logs. This gives confidence and makes one feel better. These hams then continue to fill their DX Slot Bingo Card. This has a snowball effect. The more coveted QSOes you make the better you feel.

So:
Complaining on eham makes one feel better.
Working the Coveted DX QSO makes one feel better.

EVERYONE on eHam feels better.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ3N on November 05, 2014, 05:30:16 AM
The pressure's off for me.

FT4TA 28.485/500 13:21z 11/5/2014

He's only an S3 here on my 80m doublet, so I took no chances and used the amp.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 05, 2014, 05:35:29 AM
Stanley is soooooo confusing! Apparently it's good to complain except ... it's not good to complain!

So:
Complaining on eham makes one feel better.
Working the Coveted DX QSO makes one feel better.

EVERYONE on eHam feels better.

Stan K9IUQ


Stop your bitching and whining and do something...

Stan K9IUQ

... I got tired of his constant bitching and moaning ...

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 05, 2014, 05:46:50 AM
...here's hoping that my complining on E-ham leads to an FT4TA qso.....as these dxpeditions go on, it usually does...

Please explain the mechanism by which complaining on eHam results in a QSO with a DXpedition.

Come to think of it, a scientific study of the phenomenon would require you to refrain from complaining while attempting to obtain a QSO. I don't believe that part of the space has ever been explored.

What if an op was isolated in a box sealed from outside observation.  Could you be both in the log and not in the log at the same time?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on November 05, 2014, 06:02:16 AM
What if an op was isolated in a box sealed from outside observation.  Could you be both in the log and not in the log at the same time?

If the box was carved from a log, yes.

Apologies to Erwin Schrödinger.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 05, 2014, 06:14:32 AM
Stanley is soooooo confusing! Apparently it's good to complain except ... it's not good to complain!

Not confusing at all if you think about it.

I complained about your constant eHam crybaby boo hoo, I can't work em Rants.
So I felt Better.
Then I went and worked FT4TA yet again.
Now I REALLY felt better.

Feel Better now that you understand?   :D :D
Now, instead of spending time attacking me today, or boo hoo crying, maybe you will suck it up and go work FT4TA.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 05, 2014, 06:17:33 AM
Now, instead of spending time attacking me today maybe you will suck it up and go work FT4TA.

Stan K9IUQ

Works both ways Stanley. Stop attacking me and I'll stop attacking you.

Feel Better now that you understand?  :D :D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 05, 2014, 06:24:10 AM
Now, instead of spending time attacking me today maybe you will suck it up and go work FT4TA.

Stan K9IUQ

Works both ways Stanley. Stop attacking me and I'll stop attacking you.

Feel Better now that you understand?  :D :D

I feel so much better I am thinking maybe I will work FT4TA once again today. I was going to give it a rest so Vinnie has a better chance. Go play Jt-65, YOU will feel better.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 05, 2014, 06:38:09 AM
Now, instead of spending time attacking me today maybe you will suck it up and go work FT4TA.

Stan K9IUQ

Works both ways Stanley. Stop attacking me and I'll stop attacking you.

Feel Better now that you understand?  :D :D

Now now. Play nice. Don't make me come down there and take the Wouff Hong to the lot of youze.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AJ8MH on November 05, 2014, 06:59:07 AM
I finally got him this morning on 10 SSB, and I've been trying since Friday.  I've called him using every mode and almost every band with all the tricks.  I just gave up this morning, sat on one frequency and let him find me.  (4 elements at 35 feet and 500 watts.  Propagation has not been very good on any band at this latitude for some reason.)  Now for CW and RTTY.

I heard the op say yesterday on 17 meters that they had over 1000 dups on that band alone. 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 05, 2014, 07:07:10 AM
...here's hoping that my complining on E-ham leads to an FT4TA qso.....as these dxpeditions go on, it usually does...

Please explain the mechanism by which complaining on eHam results in a QSO with a DXpedition.

Complaining makes one feel better. When you feel better, your chances of making that coveted DX contact increases.

This feel better thingy also helps those that do not complain. These hams make a Coveted first QSO and they feel better. The pressure is off. The contact is in both logs. This gives confidence and makes one feel better. These hams then continue to fill their DX Slot Bingo Card. This has a snowball effect. The more coveted QSOes you make the better you feel.

So:
Complaining on eham makes one feel better.
Working the Coveted DX QSO makes one feel better.

EVERYONE on eHam feels better.

Stan K9IUQ


The most important thing is to simply keep trying, irrespective of how one feels. If feeling better makes one more likely to continue then it helps.

Model the problem as a series of coin tosses with an unfair coin. Each individual QSO attempt is one coin toss. The chance of tossing a head (making the QSO) on any given attempt may be low, but if you keep trying you will eventually succeed.

Obviously, real life is not so simple. The chance of success may be so low that time runs out, especially if propagation takes a bad turn and drives the individual probability to zero. On the other hand, propagation may improve, increasing the individual chance of success. Also, the pile is slowly decreased with time, further increasing the probability. These two positive factors explain, at least in part, the "snowball effect." The probability of an individual success increases to the point where QSOs become likely. Simply feeling better is not enough. Even if someone with low odds manages to get through it doesn't mean that his chances suddenly improve. Getting lucky and tossing a head on your first try, when the probability of a head is one in a million, doesn't mean that you're now likely to toss a string of heads.

Of course, each person's probability of success depends on factors like their station, location, experience, etc. It is usually the case where one person experiences one-call-and-in-the-log conditions while another never succeeds before time runs out.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 05, 2014, 07:44:25 AM
Finally got them on 12m, had to twist every knob and push every button on my FTdx5000, once that was done he came right back to me, now I feel better too (trying to make a joke but I did work them). :D

I also hear them on 10m but too much RF between, going to wait for CW.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W1NK on November 05, 2014, 08:22:38 AM
I heard the op say yesterday on 17 meters that they had over 1000 dups on that band alone. 

That doesn't surprise me since on their website they state:
Quote
Neither the pilots, nor the QSL Manager will have access to the log during the operation. Useless to drown them under e-mails. In case of doubt, please reiterate the contact.
(emphasis added)

That has to be a major contributor to the size of the pileups.

Frank, W1NK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 05, 2014, 08:23:32 AM
Finally got them on 12m, had to twist every knob and push every button on my FTdx5000, once that was done he came right back to me, now I feel better too (trying to make a joke but I did work them). :D

I also hear them on 10m but too much RF between, going to wait for CW.

I modified my amp with an 11 button, so that full to the right is now 11 instead of 10.  Having that extra 1 can really help break through.

Congrats on Q.  :) 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 05, 2014, 08:59:08 AM

I modified my amp with an 11 button, so that full to the right is now 11 instead of 10.  Having that extra 1 can really help break through.
 

By golly.. I think that's been my problem all along! ... my amp doesn't go to 11, it only goes to 10  ;D ::)

LOL always appreciate a good spinal tap reference...  ;)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 05, 2014, 09:29:12 AM

Feel Better now that you understand?  :D :D

I feel so much better I am thinking maybe I will work FT4TA once again today.

Stan K9IUQ


I also hear them on 10m but too much RF between, going to wait for CW.

I wish you guys would stop it. First N5INP tries to agitate me which makes me feel better.

Then NM6V dangles that 10m SSB DX in front of me which makes me like I can do better.

What is a Ham to do? Well K9IUQ decides not to take a day of rest and listens on 10m SSB thanks to NM6V. The signal was pretty puny. So I went to lunch. When I came back it was a different OP and the signal was easily readable. 2 Calls later and K9IUQ is feeling better. Much better. N5INP, thanx for motivating me and NM6V thanks for the 10m SSB heads up. eHamers are Great.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 05, 2014, 09:30:43 AM
ALL RIGHT STAN!

 Yes I'm yelling

Just installed an new button on rig, it's labeled Vinnie, it uses Lead Pipe Management for QRMers.  Takes a bit but very effective.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: MM0NDX on November 05, 2014, 09:36:46 AM
UPDATE VIII @ 17:15Z - Our pilots gave some information and here ‘s what we can say:

Pileups are still big and wide, we do our best to find the best balance between rates and bandwidth usage…be sure of the fact there’s thousands still calling and the only reason we use many Khz…

We know many of you still need Tromelin for an all time new one. So narrowing pileups too much would not be good for you. Also there is no band open where we can stay “all day long”. Again today the log shows lot’s of new “uniques”. Keep your fingers crossed, you’ll make it !

Excellent propagation makes some bands open at the same time for JA – EU and NA. Everyone has his best time. We are trying to give the same chances to everyone. Some areas have narrower windows, so PLEASE respect our instructions. When you are not listening to us, everyone is just wasting time. Operators at FT4TA won’t get you if they are not calling your area. Please allow us to do a good job.

We have been able to enjoy some short openings with the west-coast on the LP, we will try again according to our propagation schedule. We will keep our efforts on low bands and try again to be on 160-80 and 40 at our SS. 80m SSB was not in our plans and we are not sure to try again as conditions on this band are not the best for SSB. Remember we are not here to give you all band/slot, so we will come again on this band/mode only if we estimate conditions are good enough for most of you.

We keep fingers crossed but haven’t faced any problem or difficulties so far. Everyone has found a good rythmn, working radio until falling asleep on the keyboard, eat, sleep, radio, repeat. I’m sure you’ve noticed most of the six stations are active all day long. Everyone is tired but over-motivated to satisfy the entire community.

Remember to give your help via our pilots. We exchange emails on a daily basis via the satellite, we do not have any other internet access (no cluster, phone, etc).

We hope you appreciate finding your QSOs on LoTW.

(http://www.dx-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/FT4TA_SKY.jpg)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 05, 2014, 09:47:38 AM
We hope you appreciate finding your QSOs on LoTW.

We all appreciate the effort to bring an ATNO to many. LOTW is an unexpected Bonus. I can only imagine the difficulty of hearing the huge pileups on the FT4TA end. It must be truly horrendous. The OPs are doing an admirable Job. Keep it up. The Complaining and whining will die down as more Hams get that ATNO. Still plenty of time left.

Stan K9IUQ

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 05, 2014, 09:54:01 AM
Seems like CW activity has fallen off on HF bands which is a pity as there's some superb CW ops there, lots of wasted time on multiband RTTY  ;)

Just wkd 1753Z 28.485  ;D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 05, 2014, 10:01:59 AM
Update VIII is a very well worded and positively oriented message.  Touches all the right points IMO.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 05, 2014, 10:11:33 AM
Seems like CW activity has fallen off on HF bands which is a pity as there's some superb CW ops there, lots of wasted time on multiband RTTY  ;)

Waste is in the eye of the beholder.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 05, 2014, 10:13:47 AM
Seems like CW activity has fallen off on HF bands which is a pity as there's some superb CW ops there, lots of wasted time on multiband RTTY  ;)

Waste is in the eye of the beholder.

Hence the wink ;)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 05, 2014, 10:42:42 AM
Seems like CW activity has fallen off on HF bands which is a pity as there's some superb CW ops there, lots of wasted time on multiband RTTY  ;)

Just wkd 1753Z 28.485  ;D

RTTY was the absolute last mode I would expect to get an ATNO on (I usually suck in RTTY pileups... better in CW or phone)..

but....

As of the latest log update today... I AM IN THE LOG!! 20M RTTY... YESSS!!  ;D

I think it's either #301 or #302
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W4PGM on November 05, 2014, 10:57:51 AM
Well everyone must be trying for Krish today.  I turned on 10M and in two calls back they came.   No UP Police, no Tuner-uppers, no fights, no name calling,  just a good day on noisy bands.  Maybe the trick is stay away on the weekends! 

Paul W4PGM
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB3LIX on November 05, 2014, 11:00:10 AM
Not having any luck so far.
They are VERY weak here, best band seems to be 12m.
but I am not expecting much.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 05, 2014, 11:04:39 AM
Well everyone must be trying for Krish today.  I turned on 10M and in two calls back they came.   No UP Police, no Tuner-uppers, no fights, no name calling,  just a good day on noisy bands.  Maybe the trick is stay away on the weekends! 

Paul W4PGM

Hi Paul, the 2E Steppir is doing great, love it ;D
73, Paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WX2S on November 05, 2014, 11:24:17 AM
Still no luck here. I can't read the pileups because there are at least ten operators on each one who aren't listening. The jamming and cops take them out at least three-quarters of the time. They are on high bands to Europe in the mornings, so I have no shot at avoiding the Euro wall by working them on 80 through 20 while EU is at work.

In contrast, I had Lord Howe on seven bands by this stage of the operation.

- WX2S.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WX2S on November 05, 2014, 11:28:15 AM
Seems like CW activity has fallen off on HF bands which is a pity as there's some superb CW ops there, lots of wasted time on multiband RTTY  ;)
I don't see this. There were some MURDEROUS CW pileups last night.

- WX2S.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 05, 2014, 11:37:35 AM
Still no luck here. I can't read the pileups because there are at least ten operators on each one who aren't listening. The jamming and cops take them out at least three-quarters of the time. They are on high bands to Europe in the mornings, so I have no shot at avoiding the Euro wall by working them on 80 through 20 while EU is at work.

In contrast, I had Lord Howe on seven bands by this stage of the operation.

- WX2S.


Steve:

Try 12 CW right now (1930z), not a big pileup and good sigs...

73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 05, 2014, 11:47:54 AM
Seems like CW activity has fallen off on HF bands which is a pity as there's some superb CW ops there, lots of wasted time on multiband RTTY  ;)
I don't see this. There were some MURDEROUS CW pileups last night.

- WX2S.

I was meaning 10 - 20m bands. I've indeed heard 40 & 30 pileups. 73,gl
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on November 05, 2014, 11:52:04 AM
Good opening into NTx on 12M CW now (19:43 UTC). It took a little while and once I figured out his RX step going up the band, it did not take long to see the blip I was looking for on the P3!  :)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 05, 2014, 12:04:46 PM
Seems like CW activity has fallen off on HF bands which is a pity as there's some superb CW ops there, lots of wasted time on multiband RTTY  ;)
I don't see this. There were some MURDEROUS CW pileups last night.

- WX2S.
I'm listening to them on 12 CW at 3pm and they're a real S9, listening up about 5 or 6. Probably not doable with 100W, but a modest amp and some directivity they'll be workable in not too many calls.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 05, 2014, 12:14:07 PM
I'm listening to them on 12 CW at 3pm and they're a real S9, listening up about 5 or 6. Probably not doable with 100W, but a modest amp and some directivity they'll be workable in not too many calls.

Just worked them @ 2010z. Yes...they were very loud!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K4JK on November 05, 2014, 01:19:14 PM
12 CW is your huckleberry. Just got them with 100w on my 80m delta loop.

He's moving around a little but sticking pretty close to 24.896.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4RSS on November 05, 2014, 02:38:23 PM
Just got them on 20m SSB what a nightmare
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: MM0NDX on November 05, 2014, 02:40:36 PM
For FT4TA log checking please email to : ft4ta@cdxc.org

(ie, any queries)

73 Col, MM0NDX
FT4TA Chief Pilot
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N3QE on November 05, 2014, 04:20:20 PM
I had a horribly frustrating night last night with all the cops on 40M. FT4TA was dang loud but there were just so many cops on at the same time.

But tonight... worked twice! Once on 17M CW then on 30M RTTY.

There is something different about the spotting networks especially reversebeacon tonight... I think there is a scheme that is working, to hide FT4TA from most of the kilocycle cops... I cannot put my finger on exactly what is happening here because some skimmer spots still do show up.

Maybe the answer is, all the cops have moved over to VU4CB!!! I can hear VU4CB pretty well nevertheless, far from loud, but definitely copyable on 20M.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 05, 2014, 04:24:33 PM
I had a horribly frustrating night last night with all the cops on 40M. FT4TA was dang loud but there were just so many cops on at the same time.

But tonight... worked twice! Once on 17M CW then on 30M RTTY.

There is something different about the spotting networks especially reversebeacon tonight... I think there is a scheme that is working, to hide FT4TA from most of the kilocycle cops... I cannot put my finger on exactly what is happening here because some skimmer spots still do show up.

Tim:

The fewer spots the better, we all know their operating freqs, but so do the QRM'ers, but any help we can get the better.

73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W9XX on November 05, 2014, 04:51:17 PM
this morning on 10 ssb they were a true s9.I worked them on 505 just to keep out of the bigger pile.Took maybe 3 minutes to get them as he sat on the edges. I did work them the other night on 20m ssb with 200w.
But 80 is something else.Good signal on gray line. Not as good as FT5ZM.
But the pileup just wipes them out most of the time. Keep calling and calling.
12m I think they got my call as RR.
Oh well back to the salt mine tomorrow. All can have the daytime bands for the next 3 days you retired folks.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on November 05, 2014, 05:59:40 PM
They are strong here in NTx on 14.185 up 5-15. He's working all over the US.
0200 UTC
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on November 05, 2014, 06:14:01 PM
Finally got them on 17M CW a few minutes ago. Not very strong in NTx, but workable with patience!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 05, 2014, 07:11:38 PM
Well everyone must be trying for Krish today.  I turned on 10M and in two calls back they came.   No UP Police, no Tuner-uppers, no fights, no name calling,  just a good day on noisy bands.  Maybe the trick is stay away on the weekends! 

Paul W4PGM

It wasn't so easy to work Krish and Pai on 20 meters.  They kept trying to get the Europeans to stand by for NA with little success.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4CR on November 05, 2014, 07:15:35 PM
Got them on 10 SSB this morning and confirmed in Club Log. Woot!

The pileup was insane 5-10 up. I parked at 13 up (had to laugh that there was nobody there) and got them in 6 calls. R-8 vert at 12' running legal limit.

And no vermin jamming or copping. One dumb tuner upper.

I'd like a CW contact as well, but I can live with this. I have a ways to go but this puts me at 242 in a little over 3.5 years.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AA6YQ on November 05, 2014, 08:43:00 PM
Has anyone in North America heard FT4TA on 160m? I've been listening after my sunset until after their sunrise, but have heard nothing. I do hear a few NA callers, but have not heard any of them make a QSO.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VK3MEG on November 05, 2014, 09:05:13 PM
Quote
Got them on 10 SSB this morning and confirmed in Club Log. Woot!

The pileup was insane 5-10 up. I parked at 13 up (had to laugh that there was nobody there) and got them in 6 calls. R-8 vert at 12' running legal limit.

And no vermin jamming or copping. One dumb tuner upper.

congrats thats a might effort they are workable with out the idiots just a pity this is a 10 day operation not a 2 week one.
then the small stations have a good chance at the end
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KC7STK on November 05, 2014, 09:12:19 PM
trying to work these individuals from here is like pulling teeth. probably easier from east-central U.S.A . usually they have no signal. if you do happen to copy them (s1) they listen where I am unable to transmit. outstanding!  FT5ZM band plan was far better-no prejudice.  good luck to all.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 06, 2014, 06:35:56 AM
Woo Hoo!  40m long path @ 1430Z.  Waaay after sunup.  Congrats KY6R who I heard get thru too!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 06, 2014, 07:01:16 AM
Woo Hoo!  40m long path @ 1430Z.  Waaay after sunup.  Congrats KY6R who I heard get thru too!

That was an amazing LP opening on 40m Larry.  Much stronger signal today than yesterday.  And thank goodness there were few QRM'ers :)

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 06, 2014, 07:17:51 AM
That was an amazing LP opening on 40m Larry.  Much stronger signal today than yesterday.  And thank goodness there were few QRM'ers :)

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Did you work him Jonathan?  I heard Randy, K0EU get thru.  He's about half way between us.

LC
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 06, 2014, 07:26:59 AM
Did you work him Jonathan?  I heard Randy, K0EU get thru.  He's about half way between us.

I logged him right after you at 1431z.  I camped out at 7.023 for two days in a row.  And he came a bit earlier today which helped.

I saw some W6s work them on 80m LP.  That's amazing.  It's too late for us but glad to see they are focusing on the West Coast especially on the low bands.

Maybe they will show up tomorrow looking for the West Coast on 160m ;) 

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 06, 2014, 07:31:31 AM
WTG!  I thought it was too late for us, he was starting to fade.  Working all 6s and 7s.  What a surprise.  I got up early hoping to catch W1AW/KH8 on 160m, but he didn't come down from 80 until too late.  I was just gonna shut down when the FT4 came on.  Whew.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 06, 2014, 07:36:15 AM
WTG!  I thought it was too late for us, he was starting to fade.  Working all 6s and 7s.  What a surprise.  I got up early hoping to catch W1AW/KH8 on 160m, but he didn't come down from 80 until too late.  I was just gonna shut down when the FT4 came on.  Whew.

I worked W1AW/KH8 on 160m yesterday morning.  I have been trying them for several days with no joy due to weak copy until that magical moment yesterday at 1312z.  The lowband antenna improvements I made this summer is paying off.  GL.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KY6R on November 06, 2014, 09:29:47 AM
Woo Hoo!  40m long path @ 1430Z.  Waaay after sunup.  Congrats KY6R who I heard get thru too!

Thanks and congrats to you too!

I tested my phased array during the eHam DX Net last night - because yesterday I heard FT4TA much louder on 40M - and thought I'd get through the pileup - but no joy. I was wondering if there was something wrong with my array. Luckily it was just the vagaries of conditions from day to day. I did work them that evening before on 30M with one call - my 60' vertical with 100 radials - so 5/8 wl on 30M.

Ironically - they were weaker today - but they seemed to be hearing everyone in the Western States much better than yesterday.

Anyway - wow - this DX-pedition has turned out to be really super - and because of the competition - we knew it would be pretty competitive trying to get through from the West. But this team really rocks!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 06, 2014, 09:36:11 AM
Congrats Rich.  Since they got on a bit earlier today their signal was much stronger today than yesterday for me.

Were you able to hear them on 80m this morning?

How much power were you running this morning?  And last night on the net?

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KY6R on November 06, 2014, 09:44:11 AM
Congrats Rich.  Since they got on a bit earlier today their signal was much stronger today than yesterday for me.

Were you able to hear them on 80m this morning?

How much power were you running this morning?  And last night on the net?

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Congrats on snagging them on 40M.

I didn't bother trying 80M - I have to be at work in my San Francisco office at 7 AM each morning - so I made my 40M QSO and then rode my bike down to BART. I've been a bit late to work each day this week -  ;D :D

I was running 100 watts on the eHam net last night, but had about 1400 watts on this morning.

I had tested the 40M phased array all summer with a group of guys on the West Coast - let by Mark - AF6TC and several fellows up in the PNW. They work 40M gray line DX every morning - and like them - they really like working ZS and everything in and around Africa. This summer - even 2 hours after sunrise, I was able to work V51B, Andre on 40M SSB. That is really a far QSO - more than 1/2 around the world - and I was only running 500 watts at the time with my KPA-500.

I also have worked FH, FR, C9 on that morning LP during the summer.

So this is why snagging FT4TA on 40M was so important to me - its the first time I had any competition on 40M with the phased array on the long path. And that - to me - is the ultimate antenna test where you can then know your antenna is "good enough".  ;)

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 06, 2014, 10:46:25 AM
18079,  1845Z clng 6/7 only.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 06, 2014, 11:03:17 AM
18079,  1845Z clng 6/7 only.

Yes................ and did U see the QRM explode?  Calling by the numbers sucks.  If you think DXers are impatient under normal conditions, just start by the numbers........
I am glad I have my solitary QSO on 12.  I was thinking about trying 17 or 15 CW, but I don't need that CRAP.  20M?  Hell, I don't think they have spent much enough time there.  Don't know who selects their working freqs.  Oh well.......

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7WQ on November 06, 2014, 11:05:26 AM
Just worked him at 1846Z but he was calling me w7mq  don't know if he ever got the correction.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 06, 2014, 12:05:23 PM
.......Anyway - wow - this DX-pedition has turned out to be really super - and because of the competition - we knew it would be pretty competitive trying to get through from the West. But this team really rocks!

Yes, they have really kept up the good work throughout their stay!

Getting much easier to work.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB3LIX on November 06, 2014, 12:13:52 PM
Now FT4TA has entered the realm of BULLS*** !
Today is the best I have ever heard them on 17m CW, and they are
GOING BY NUMBERS !
They have callers spread out from 1 to 10kc UP and going by NUMBERS !

Sorry, they are not going to be the DXPedition of the year that way.

FIGURES, one time I can hear them, and they are on # 4.

And even by numbers, their rate SUCKS !

They are not even worth the effort.




I DO NOT NEED THEM THAT BAD.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7WQ on November 06, 2014, 12:27:08 PM
He wasn't working by the numbers, he was simply asking for west coast.  A considerate thing to do, not unlike when the Pacific stations ask the west coast to standby for east coast.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 06, 2014, 12:38:49 PM

They are not even worth the effort.

I DO NOT NEED THEM THAT BAD.

It took my Acom 1500 longer to warm up today than it did to work them on two bands after getting home from work. It does not seem that they are that difficult to work on the higher bands.

Listening to them on 17m CW right now...their rate is good! Don't know what one should expect. (and no calling by the numbers)

Great signal also!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 06, 2014, 12:51:32 PM
Several hundred pages back on this thread there was a discussion cc 10M SSB on 10/31 around 1800Z not showing up in the log.  Just FYI I received information that they weren't on 10 SSB at that time and was a Slim.  Hence the no-shows in the log.

GL everyone still seeking a new one or a band.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 06, 2014, 01:18:37 PM
He wasn't working by the numbers, he was simply asking for west coast.  A considerate thing to do, not unlike when the Pacific stations ask the west coast to standby for east coast.

I have heard a Pac/Asia station do that exactly one time.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB3LIX on November 06, 2014, 01:21:58 PM
He wasn't working by the numbers, he was simply asking for west coast.  A considerate thing to do, not unlike when the Pacific stations ask the west coast to standby for east coast.

He was asking for 4's, not just a fill of a
specific # 4.

Now, YV4EH someone that doesn't understand "UP"
keeps calling on top of FT4.

Time for a snooze.
This is just too aggrivating.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB3LIX on November 06, 2014, 01:23:42 PM

They are not even worth the effort.

I DO NOT NEED THEM THAT BAD.

It took my Acom 1500 longer to warm up today than it did to work them on two bands after getting home from work. It does not seem that they are that difficult to work on the higher bands.

Listening to them on 17m CW right now...their rate is good! Don't know what one should expect. (and no calling by the numbers)

Great signal also!

Having an amplifier seems like it WOULD make it easier to get thru than 100 watts
and a chunk of zip cord.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: MM0NDX on November 06, 2014, 01:25:29 PM
'3LIX, you sound like you are 10 years old - are you?

Col, MM0NDX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 06, 2014, 02:02:42 PM
Time for a snooze.
This is just too aggrivating.

This pile-up on 17m CW today was just a typical DXpedition pile-up. No better, or no worse. As I listened to it in the back-ground for a bit, his rate was really good and he was churning out a lot contacts. If the DX op was not doing his job as well as he was, these QSO's would not have been happening at the rate they were.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 06, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
I was running 100 watts on the eHam net last night

Next time you run barefoot on the net I will show up at your doorstep with a Wouff Hong ;D

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 06, 2014, 02:10:22 PM
For those still looking for 20M rtty they are shockingly loud 14080 in CO 2200z.  Not many calling either.  Call above the W1AW/7 pileup 086 087
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 06, 2014, 02:19:32 PM
Time for a snooze.
This is just too aggrivating.

This pile-up on 17m CW today was just a typical DXpedition pile-up. No better, or no worse. As I listened to it in the back-ground for a bit, his rate was really good and he was churning out a lot contacts. If the DX op was not doing his job as well as he was, these QSO's would not have been happening at the rate they were.


Yes,excellent opr tho lidfest as well.
Seems like pileups not decreasing much either, I wonder if the demand will be met - they start packing on Sunday.  45k Qs  but only 13k uniques.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 06, 2014, 02:20:45 PM
I went to the online log on their QRZ page and my previously checked off 10 meter QSOs from 10/31 @ 1410 UTC and from 11/2 @ 1851 were no longer checked off.  I went to their expedition home page and that online log has my 10 meter contacts checked off.  Just want to let others know in case they have the same thing happen.

I still have not received a LoTW credit for the 10 meter CW QSO from 11/2 even though a 12 meter QSO from the following day has come through via LoTW.

I spent a good amount of time on 17 meters today and the problem was not the operator asking for some W6 and W7 stations.  What dramatically reduced their QSO rate was the usual bunch of jammers and poor Ops and many were right here in the USA.  Had their operator not asked for NA only most of us who made a 17 meter contact today would not be in the log.

73,

Chris  NU1O


Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KY6R on November 06, 2014, 02:27:40 PM
I was running 100 watts on the eHam net last night

Next time you run barefoot on the net I will show up at your doorstep with a Wouff Hong ;D

73,
Jonathan W6GX

When I was in Moab with the KX3 I was running 12 watts.

OK - I will use the amp next week - just for the heck of it.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WA2VUY on November 06, 2014, 02:35:26 PM
Pretty amazing....Europe spread is 7130-7152 (FT on 7082) right now and the pileup is deep, deep. After a week...

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on November 06, 2014, 02:43:36 PM
The pileups seem worse than ever.  Certainly not reduced at all


Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 06, 2014, 03:38:40 PM
The pileups seem worse than ever.  Certainly not reduced at all

As I said on Day 1 or 2 of the operation, there's a zero percent chance they'll even come close to satisfying worldwide demand, especially given the operating habits of many of the operators. 20-30 kHz pileups and a 2 or 3 Q/minute rate won't cut it. They really needed to bring along one or two more world class CW ops who could draw down the worst pileups after about 5 days, and also to dedicate one station to 15 and 20m, 24 hours a day, for the duration. CW and SSB, no RTTY from that one station, with the goal of handing out uniques.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 06, 2014, 03:42:28 PM
The pileups seem worse than ever.  Certainly not reduced at all


Mark N1UK

Perhaps all the folks who decided to wait a few days for things to die down before trying?

I'm glad I got my one in. At the sounds of the still-big pileups I might just be happy with the one and enjoy the weekend :)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 06, 2014, 03:46:07 PM
The pileups seem worse than ever.  Certainly not reduced at all

As I said on Day 1 or 2 of the operation, there's a zero percent chance they'll even come close to satisfying worldwide demand, especially given the operating habits of many of the operators. 20-30 kHz pileups and a 2 or 3 Q/minute rate won't cut it. They really needed to bring along one or two more world class CW ops who could draw down the worst pileups after about 5 days, and also to dedicate one station to 15 and 20m, 24 hours a day, for the duration. CW and SSB, no RTTY from that one station, with the goal of handing out uniques.

Peter:

I totally agree. The QSO rate seems to be slowing down and I think they will be hard pressed to make 100k QSO's. Oh well good luck to the team and everyone else trying to work them.

73 De Mike
VE3YF
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4CR on November 06, 2014, 03:46:37 PM
congrats that's a might effort they are workable with out the idiots just a pity this is a 10 day operation not a 2 week one. Then the small stations have a good chance at the end

I haven't heard them since. But that one is already confirmed in LoTW, so that's pretty neat.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 06, 2014, 03:47:41 PM
I am able to get on the radio following work around 2 p.m. EST, I guess I am hitting the pile-ups at the right time. They were not that hard to crack the last two days. For those not able to be home until later, I suppose the crowds may be larger then.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7NUW on November 06, 2014, 04:17:17 PM
Per W2IRT:
Quote
As I said on Day 1 or 2 of the operation, there's a zero percent chance they'll even come close to satisfying worldwide demand, especially given the operating habits of many of the operators. 20-30 kHz pileups and a 2 or 3 Q/minute rate won't cut it. They really needed to bring along one or two more world class CW ops who could draw down the worst pileups after about 5 days, and also to dedicate one station to 15 and 20m, 24 hours a day, for the duration. CW and SSB, no RTTY from that one station, with the goal of handing out uniques.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Maybe 17 and 20 given the relatively poor SFI. And please, not antennas with south-facing nulls! I repeatedly heard S79KB Seychelles whose omnidirectional 20m vertical yielded a true 579 on long path --and he's 800 miles more distant on that same path. FT4TA has never been 3 db above my (relatively) low noise floor on any band.

And so much time on 80 meters! Not a chance without a rural antenna farm.

The great majority of the FT4FA QSOs are going to be bandfills and new modes while the ATNO crowd posts zeros.

I'm (almost) ashamed to admit I had 6 CW QSOs with FT5ZM (11000+ miles from my Seattle QTH). What a difference!

Ken W7NUW
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7WQ on November 06, 2014, 04:42:30 PM
Don't give up hope if you are just using a dipole and barefoot.  I worked him from here with 100W to a dipole (granted, he busted my call..called me w7mq)  I hope he got the correction will have to check club log....but I do have Tromelin from back in the early 90's  and the NU1 is right, the pileups don't seem to be diminishing.  I am blown away by the number of out of turn callers and the lids who zero beat the station he is trying to work and call and call....shame
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 06, 2014, 04:58:08 PM
Don't give up hope if you are just using a dipole and barefoot.  I worked him from here with 100W to a dipole (granted, he busted my call..called me w7mq) 

I was copying his RTTY on 20 this afternoon. Sent out a few calls, but his signal was drowned out many times by hams calling on top of him - yes they were Extra class too, because I look them up on QRZ. You'd think by now even the most ignorant out-of-touch Extra class hams would know better, given it's such a big-time operation, but apparently they are completely clueless that such an operation would never do simplex. But I'll keep on keepin on.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 06, 2014, 05:06:36 PM
Its funny lots of the big expeditions over look RTTY until the last few days and then its a battle to get 1 Q,

These guys are doing too much RTTY on too many bands and we are still not happy,

They don't have enough OP's the don't have enough time and there signals have been poor on most bands, (maybe intentionally to reduce the pile ups), looking at the pics on DX World they are using VDA's but they look to be very far inland,

But at least they went and gave lots of people a new one, I can wait 10 years or more for some slots,

I'm happy only have 1 confirmed QSO might get another might not but considering I had no antenna till Tuesday evening I can't complain,

Trevor
EI2GLB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 06, 2014, 06:24:14 PM
and also to dedicate one station to 15 and 20m, 24 hours a day, for the duration. CW and SSB, no RTTY from that one station, with the goal of handing out uniques.

Yep, I got my one QSO today on 17 CW. I can sleep better, might try for one on 80 but that's it for me. They really need to get people ATNO's.

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 06, 2014, 06:33:00 PM
and also to dedicate one station to 15 and 20m, 24 hours a day, for the duration. CW and SSB, no RTTY from that one station, with the goal of handing out uniques.

They really need to get people ATNO's.

paul

Ditto and agree, although I got taken out behind the woodshed for saying so before.  I feel tremendously for the guys trying to get into the log and think 20 is da money band for ATNOs.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ3N on November 06, 2014, 06:55:37 PM
He wasn't working by the numbers, he was simply asking for west coast.  A considerate thing to do, not unlike when the Pacific stations ask the west coast to standby for east coast.

I have heard a Pac/Asia station do that exactly one time.

That's one more time than I've ever heard it.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 06, 2014, 07:17:22 PM
Maybe I am wrong but I think that a California ham group gave a huge $25,000 donation for this dxpedition.  I would expect that they would take time out to ask for west coast stations.
Seems only fair to me.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 06, 2014, 07:33:52 PM
Maybe I am wrong but I think that a California ham group gave a huge $25,000 donation for this dxpedition.  I would expect that they would take time out to ask for west coast stations.
Seems only fair to me.

Yes, Northern California DX Foundation  http://ncdxf.org/pages/funded.html (http://ncdxf.org/pages/funded.html) you don't have to live in  N Cal to contribute ;D

Bit surprised I don't see them on the Navassa sponsors' page yet.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 06, 2014, 08:02:31 PM
Why its not pay per QSO (YET)

I don't donate to a expedition to make sure the listen for me, I am sure the guys in CA don't either,

Maybe I am wrong but I think that a California ham group gave a huge $25,000 donation for this dxpedition.  I would expect that they would take time out to ask for west coast stations.
Seems only fair to me.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO2C on November 06, 2014, 09:40:10 PM
Per W2IRT:
Quote
As I said on Day 1 or 2 of the operation, there's a zero percent chance they'll even come close to satisfying worldwide demand, especially given the operating habits of many of the operators. 20-30 kHz pileups and a 2 or 3 Q/minute rate won't cut it. They really needed to bring along one or two more world class CW ops who could draw down the worst pileups after about 5 days, and also to dedicate one station to 15 and 20m, 24 hours a day, for the duration. CW and SSB, no RTTY from that one station, with the goal of handing out uniques.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Maybe 17 and 20 given the relatively poor SFI. And please, not antennas with south-facing nulls! I repeatedly heard S79KB Seychelles whose omnidirectional 20m vertical yielded a true 579 on long path --and he's 800 miles more distant on that same path. FT4TA has never been 3 db above my (relatively) low noise floor on any band.

And so much time on 80 meters! Not a chance without a rural antenna farm.

The great majority of the FT4FA QSOs are going to be bandfills and new modes while the ATNO crowd posts zeros.

I'm (almost) ashamed to admit I had 6 CW QSOs with FT5ZM (11000+ miles from my Seattle QTH). What a difference!

Ken W7NUW

My experience with FT5ZM was similar to Ken's (40 & 20 Meter SSB/worked them on the first call/100 watts & a buddipole) from my QTH here in Southern California. Unfortunately--unless something changes dramatically--FT4TA will remain "unworkable" for me. I'll be  one of those members of the ATNO crowd posting a zero.

Good luck to us all & 73,
Ray, WO2C
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KH6DC on November 06, 2014, 11:40:41 PM
Per W2IRT:
Quote
As I said on Day 1 or 2 of the operation, there's a zero percent chance they'll even come close to satisfying worldwide demand, especially given the operating habits of many of the operators. 20-30 kHz pileups and a 2 or 3 Q/minute rate won't cut it. They really needed to bring along one or two more world class CW ops who could draw down the worst pileups after about 5 days, and also to dedicate one station to 15 and 20m, 24 hours a day, for the duration. CW and SSB, no RTTY from that one station, with the goal of handing out uniques.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Maybe 17 and 20 given the relatively poor SFI. And please, not antennas with south-facing nulls! I repeatedly heard S79KB Seychelles whose omnidirectional 20m vertical yielded a true 579 on long path --and he's 800 miles more distant on that same path. FT4TA has never been 3 db above my (relatively) low noise floor on any band.

And so much time on 80 meters! Not a chance without a rural antenna farm.

The great majority of the FT4FA QSOs are going to be bandfills and new modes while the ATNO crowd posts zeros.

I'm (almost) ashamed to admit I had 6 CW QSOs with FT5ZM (11000+ miles from my Seattle QTH). What a difference!

Ken W7NUW

My experience with FT5ZM was similar to Ken's (40 & 20 Meter SSB/worked them on the first call/100 watts & a buddipole) from my QTH here in Southern California. Unfortunately--unless something changes dramatically--FT4TA will remain "unworkable" for me. I'll be  one of those members of the ATNO crowd posting a zero.

Good luck to us all & 73,
Ray, WO2C

Same here, zilch for me so far.  Oh well, at least I taught my son how to ride a bicycle without training wheels this past Saturday and that has a more profound lasting memory for me than chasing ghost.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 07, 2014, 01:12:37 AM
Why its not pay per QSO (YET)

I don't donate to a expedition to make sure the listen for me, I am sure the guys in CA don't either,


If someone donates $25k I am certainly going to listen out for them.
It's just common curtesy, and after all the EU is still getting the vast majority of contacts when we all know who is going to pay most of the bill.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: ZENKI on November 07, 2014, 02:05:37 AM
Another incompetent DX'pedition with operators with poor pileup skills. They use excessive pileup split bandwidth that just encourages chaos to dominate.

The QSO statistics speaks for themselves,  a very unhealthy overall imbalance across the worlds regions. The operators are only interested in 3 areas  and give up all too easy because of the poor operating skills. I hear them pop up on 20 meters 3 or 4 times and  they call CQ and  give up because they dont have a horrendous pileup thats 50khz wide

. They dont standby  for Pacific, Asia, South American  and seem to be locked into one propagation zone Europe with even thinking about the limited propagation window that many areas of the world have. Considering what good propagation Europe has to this area why have a such Euro centric bias? When DX'peditions start flying their country of origin flags they encouraging  deliberate QSO region discrimination in future dxpeditions. Its a sign of bad expedition when the operators just become overwhelmed by the pileup size and panick. The FT4TA operators are panic stricken and  fail to command and control their pileups. They generate pileups that their operators cant handle or control. Its very simple when you have the whole continent of Europe calling all at once. Its a simply a  matter of controlling the pileup by calling for call areas from 1 to 10. This would be far faster than the chaos that these ops create  by spreading a European pileup over 50khz of non stop calling.

The recipe is simple

Europe 1
Asia 1
Japan 1
Africa 1
JA 1
NA 1
SA 1
 working 20 stations in each region before moving onto the next number. Obviously this will be a lot quicker than it seems because their wont be simultaneous propagation to the world on all bands hence their rate wont drop. It certainly would give the ham world a more fairer view of this dx'pedition rather than their lopsided pileup technique that is making so many across  the world so angry.

They could extend this pileup management even further by starting on say 14201 for 1 call area stations then 14202 for 2 area stations and go right ip 14209 for 9;s and 14200 for 0 call area stations. So regardless where in the world you are of you a 1 call area station you know that there is only 1 frequency to call on not taking pot luck across 30khz. It really is a no brainer. The problem is that the operators are too stubborn and arrogant to admit that they cant handle the demand which could be easily handled by the above technique. There would be no mess and everyone will know exactly where to call and from what area of the world to call from.

The current mess that is FT4TA could be all avoided and would be considered of the narrow allocation on 17 meters. To me its a no brainer however these DX;peditions operators seem to be very arrogant and seem to want to show the world that they are all tough and can handle any pileup. FT4TA has proved how useless, slow and inefficient it is  getting the whole world to call and spread the pileup up by increasing the spread. Its really inconsiderate of other band users and its encouraging the worst behavior that I have seen on the ham bands in a long time.

Adopting the call area by number and region approach will achieve  a faster rate than they are now achieving and will satisfy a broader range of operators across the world.

After the FT5ZM chaos I never would have expected another mess like the FT4TA expedition whose operators dont appear to have the skills to handle the demand.

The FT4TA will go down in the annals of ham radio history as one of the worst dx'peditions in  because its operators were so poor at managing pileups and balancing competing interests from  around the world. As the we attack the top 10 most wanted we dont seem to want to learn about the past failures and pitiful operations like the FT4TA operation.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 07, 2014, 05:33:22 AM
The pileups seem worse than ever.  Certainly not reduced at all

As I said on Day 1 or 2 of the operation, there's a zero percent chance they'll even come close to satisfying worldwide demand, especially given the operating habits of many of the operators. 20-30 kHz pileups and a 2 or 3 Q/minute rate won't cut it. They really needed to bring along one or two more world class CW ops who could draw down the worst pileups after about 5 days, and also to dedicate one station to 15 and 20m, 24 hours a day, for the duration. CW and SSB, no RTTY from that one station, with the goal of handing out uniques.
Pete......... for what its worth, I agree 100%.  U hit the nail on the head ;D.

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 07, 2014, 05:40:20 AM
Its funny lots of the big expeditions over look RTTY until the last few days and then its a battle to get 1 Q,

These guys are doing too much RTTY on too many bands

Trevor
EI2GLB

Perhaps due to a lack of good CW ops ???

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ3N on November 07, 2014, 05:41:16 AM
12m RTTY with 100 watts.  ;D

FT4TA  24.912/923  13:36z  11/7/2014
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 07, 2014, 05:57:16 AM
12m RTTY with 100 watts.  ;D

FT4TA  24.912/923  13:36z  11/7/2014

Great - that's my last hope - RTTY. I copied him yesterday excerpt he kept getting stomped on by the Lids.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on November 07, 2014, 06:01:48 AM
I still haven't made a QSO on 40m or 30m. 40m last night was really hard and I went to bed early. I was not having any luck with eitrher the SSB or CW pileup running 1200 watts to a 40m 4 square.  I need a 30/40m beam.


Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 07, 2014, 06:07:16 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I think that a California ham group gave a huge $25,000 donation for this dxpedition.  I would expect that they would take time out to ask for west coast stations.
Seems only fair to me.

The NCDXF is not just made up of members from California.  There are about 500 US members scattered throughout the whole country.  There are also about 60 to 70 overseas members from 52 countries.  

Two FT4TA team members, Seb, F5UFX, and Vincent, F4BKV, are NCDXF members.

I don't think FT4TA took time to specifically ask for West Coast US stations due to NCDXF's $25K contribution but because the West Coast of the USA is a very difficult path from Tromelin.  It's like expeditions to various Pacific Islands paying extra attention to Europe because parts of the Pacific are a black hole for some areas of Europe.  John, ON4UN, writes about the difficult path from Oceania to Europe is his book 'Low Band DXing."

Here's a link to the Northern California DX Foundation.  If you browse through the member lists you should recognize many prominent DXers and you'll quickly notice the members aren't concentrated in California.

http://www.ncdxf.org/index.html

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 07, 2014, 06:42:47 AM
The recipe is simple..<snip>..Adopting the call area by number and region approach will achieve  a faster rate than they are now achieving and will satisfy a broader range of operators across the world.

The FT4TA will go down in the annals of ham radio history as one of the worst dx'peditions in  because its operators were so poor at managing pileups and balancing competing interests from  around the world. As the we attack the top 10 most wanted we dont seem to want to learn about the past failures and pitiful operations like the FT4TA operation.

While your post makes many valid points, I must respectfully differ with the above portion of it, at least on principle. "By numbers" works for JA/Asia and for Europe. It does not work for North America or for the world in general. If they want to work down 50,000 worldwide DXers, then the first 2 or 3 days I agree that it should be a game for the big dawgs. Anybody anywhere, big signals win. There are few enough of these on the key bands, and let them get in and get out fast.

But once that elite tier is picked clean on the moneybands they need to start narrowing the focus to keep things manageable and as equitable as possible, while keeping rate king. "Now listening for EUROPE ONLY, BY NUMBERS./ eu 1" would work. Keep the split as low as possible (5-10 kHz at first on CW, 5-15 on Phone). Turn off your preamp, pad down 12 or 18 dB and ride the RF Gain until you can pick out the strong callers, only opening things up as needed. When it's North America's turn, make the focus on the part of NA that's the most difficult from wherever you are and call them when there's propagation. "NOW LISTENING FOR WEST COAST NA ONLY / na west na west na west only qrz." Then NA EAST, NA CENTRAL, etc.

They need to be as loud as possible and know how to run a pile. Keep it tight, keep it focused and keep the rate up at all costs.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3NRX on November 07, 2014, 06:50:02 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I think that a California ham group gave a huge $25,000 donation for this dxpedition.  I would expect that they would take time out to ask for west coast stations.
Seems only fair to me.

Wait a minute....WHAT????..What the hell is this CRAP????......First of all LIFE IS NOT FAIR....I don't give a damn how much money is being thrown around in peoples faces.....Secondly, the hypocrisy is astonishing!!!!.....you have people bitching and moaning about DX taking stations by numbers, and about nets and lists and "spoon feeding".......both on these threads and on the air during the pile ups.....yet now it's not fair that the west coast is not being singled out because of big donations????...Yet it's not fair that the west coast is not being "spoon fed" because they dropped a wad of cash in the expedition's coffers???.....NO....NO NO NO NO....YOU DO NOT PAY TO HAVE A QSO!!!!!....NO!.....this is as bad as politics!!!!.......What a CROCK!!!!!.....I in no way shape or form have any sympathy for the west coast (sorry Ray...still luv ya man!).....NONE!!!!...the west coast is constantly being singled out by European operators....at Great Lengths....SUCK IT UP, WEST COAST....and quit whining!!!!...Stosh jacking my wires is small potatoes compared to this hypocrisy getting me jacked.....some of you guys really need to get a clue......Only fair.....Where have I heard THAT lne of lilly livered woosie crap before???..... :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :o :o :o :o :o ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)..........

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU1O on November 07, 2014, 07:06:28 AM
Its funny lots of the big expeditions over look RTTY until the last few days and then its a battle to get 1 Q,

These guys are doing too much RTTY on too many bands

Trevor
EI2GLB

Perhaps due to a lack of good CW ops ???

73, Gene AF3Y

Gene, you've wrote you've sat out most of this expedition so you must've missed their world class CW Op.

They have one CW Op whose speed is not a problem but he doesn't like to ID and that leads to confusion.  I wrote to my Pilot about the lack of IDing and the need to ask for NA only.  Yesterday they spent most of the afternoon working NA only on 17 CW and I added my 5th band.  I'll try for 30 or 40 meters if their signal is good.

73,

Chris  NU1O

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K2DFC on November 07, 2014, 07:14:36 AM
I am no stranger to DXing. I have close to 300 countries worked. I do only run 100 watts to a small beam. And FT4 would be ATNO for me. I would like to work them just once on any band or mode. But where do you start when the pileup is 30khz wide? Look for the last station they just worked? Everyone does that. Watch the cluster for the QSX freq? Everyone does that to. After a week of operation things should calm down, but so far they haven't. Can you imagine what would happen if a P5 came on the air. This mess would go on for 6 months straight.

Fred K2DFC
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 07, 2014, 07:16:19 AM
I worked them yesterday afternoon on 17CW around 2pm East Coast time and the CW op seemed quite good to me. He seemed to be on 18.079 and SLOWWWLYY creeping up, seeming to make a couple of QSOs on the same frequency before moving his VFO up, going up to about 18.094 and then going back down again. I think I spend 1 hr in all, (first BEFORE he was asking for W6/W7 only and then AFTER he stopped saying W6/W7 only). I think he was a very good op.

What IS telling is that the two spots I saw around this time were guys who worked them around 18.093 MHz while almost the ENTIRE pile-up was concentrated between 18.084-18.088. Maybe working the middle of the pile is just too difficult. But he did NOT seem to be flipping up and back, maybe just a SLOWER rate in the middle of the pile.

So yes, anything to decrease the size of the pile would be good. Stick on 1 or 2 bands and beat them to death.

BTW, I worked them using 300 watts and a 20M/40M fan dipole oriented for central Europe/VK (NE/SW from here). I don't have a 30M antenna and they were weaker on my G5RV, so I just went for it with the crazy dipole set-up. No idea which element was radiating (the 20M part or the 40M part) or where the lobes are. But once I see my Q in ClubLog I will be happy.

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AJ8MH on November 07, 2014, 07:17:54 AM
I was on 17 CW yesterday doing the normal call and listen routine following hm up the band, and I was just about to give up for the day.  My last listen period was MUCH MUCH longer than normal, and I was about to spin the dial when he came back to me.  What was the long delay all about?  Interesting to see if THAT contact shows up in the next upload.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 07, 2014, 07:27:31 AM
I am no stranger to DXing. I have close to 300 countries worked. I do only run 100 watts to a small beam. And FT4 would be ATNO for me. I would like to work them just once on any band or mode. But where do you start when the pileup is 30khz wide? Look for the last station they just worked? Everyone does that. Watch the cluster for the QSX freq? Everyone does that to. After a week of operation things should calm down, but so far they haven't. Can you imagine what would happen if a P5 came on the air. This mess would go on for 6 months straight.

Fred K2DFC

The op on 10M seems to be listening on even frequencies = 490,495,500,505.  He also seems to park and work a few stations before QSYing.  Yes call right on the guy he's working until you find a pattern.  He's also calling for NA and working NA.  Good rate, good op, good opening.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 07, 2014, 07:34:10 AM
Good rate, good op, good opening.

Hey, if anybody works him on 10m please tell him to update the now stale log!

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N3QE on November 07, 2014, 07:47:02 AM
Its funny lots of the big expeditions over look RTTY until the last few days and then its a battle to get 1 Q,

These guys are doing too much RTTY on too many bands

Trevor
EI2GLB

Perhaps due to a lack of good CW ops ???

73, Gene AF3Y

I went to the FT4TA home page to get the operator's calls. Of the 7 ops, I have worked 4 on CW and 3 on RTTY. But there is one, that I have worked on CW many dozens of times!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 07, 2014, 07:48:05 AM
But where do you start when the pileup is 30khz wide? Look for the last station they just worked?


Yes.  You just answered your own question.

Everyone does that.

No they don't.  In fact very few do that.  Listen and you'll hear stations camped out calling over and over on the same frequency.  It's just too difficult for most to expend the effort to figure it out.

Watch the cluster for the QSX freq?

No, that's ancient history.

Everyone does that to.

That's to your advantage.  If everyone is calling on the frequency he was listening on minutes ago, you find where he is now.  The only thing posted QSXs are good for is to help determine the limits of the DX listening range.

Can you imagine what would happen if a P5 came on the air.

I worked P5RS7.  Yes, it turned out to be bogus, but no one knew that then.  It was just another pileup.  I wouldn't worry about it now.  Just hope P5 makes it on the air.  The pileup isn't the problem anyway.  I's the jammers and idiots whose Viagra has quit working for them.

This mess would go on for 6 months straight.

No it won't.

I think the CW ops have been quite good.  If you take the time to tune between calls, you usually can determine the operator's pattern.  Put your call in the right place at the right time and your odds of getting thru increase dramatically.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K5GS on November 07, 2014, 08:11:09 AM

I think the CW ops have been quite good.  If you take the time to tune between calls, you usually can determine the operator's pattern.  Put your call in the right place at the right time and your odds of getting thru increase dramatically.


There is no right or wrong answer. You develop a strategy for the moment.  Wayne Gretzky said it best: " I skate to where the puck will be".

If you spend enough time to learn the op's pattern you can plant yourself in a hole above or below the last x QSOs. The QRX freq on the cluster can be used to determine the operating window, and not much more, it's old news.

If you can't figure out the pattern, or the op  is randomly changing his/her receive frequency, then you plant yourself someplace and use brute force.

P5RS7, yea I have one of those :(
But I also have 2 different band P5 contacts with Ed that were counters  :)

Cheers,
GS



 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 07, 2014, 08:25:44 AM
Can you imagine what would happen if a P5 came on the air. This mess would go on for 6 months straight.

Not if the P5 operation stayed on 20 meters CW and SSB the whole time.

pal
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 07, 2014, 08:36:44 AM
Limit the bands, in the old days we didn't have 12m, 17m and 30m for DXCC so that only left us with 5 bands plus 160m.  RTTY was usually on 20m.  Heck when I started there where no band slots.
It didn't matter, one QSO on phone and one QSO on CW, if you worked RTTY Okay fine.  You where done, end of story, on to other things.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 07, 2014, 08:37:26 AM
P5RS7, yea I have one of those :(
But I also have 2 different band P5 contacts with Ed that were counters  :)

Oh yeah.  I busted that one too.  In fact I was working on an old HQ-170 when I heard the pileup.  No cluster alerts then.  Moved over to the modern rig and got the Q.  That was my last one.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7WQ on November 07, 2014, 08:54:52 AM
I have couple of those.  Still waiting on 3W3RR/jail.  Romeo says he will qsl them when he gets out.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K4JK on November 07, 2014, 09:30:48 AM
QUICK GUYS!

New Clublog upload!!!


F5 F5 F5 F5 F5

 :P
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 07, 2014, 09:55:37 AM
Interesting statistics. They have spent twice as much time on 10M as they have on 20M. And they have more than FOUR times as many QSOs on 10 than they do on 20 with Europe. Strange that 10M would be the "money band" to Europe.

The most important stat of all is that K3STX has one greenie; I think I am one and done!! Let another guy have a chance.

p
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 07, 2014, 09:58:13 AM
Yesssssss!  My 40m Q is in the log.  I had almost given up for a Q on the low band.  Persistence has paid off.

I'm very happy with my result, six bands on three modes.  Of course I wanted even more but I'm satisfied at this point.

GL to all.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: G0ORC on November 07, 2014, 10:28:34 AM
...and I'm very satisfied too.

This little pistol has his sole contact (on 15m) confirmed in just over 24 hours in my latest LOTW download.

Pity its not an ATNO (worked it in 2000 on 10m) but I'm happy I cracked the huge pileups with a wire antenna station.



Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: MM0NDX on November 07, 2014, 10:57:51 AM
UPDATE – We are now on the final lane of our operation. We will start to dismantle most of the antennas on Sunday because all equipment must be packed and stored in big plastic cases for transportation. The boxes will be transported from Tromelin to France in the coming months. We plan to keep all stations running but not on all bands for the last night. Estimated QRT time is around 0100z Monday.

For the coming 3 days, we want to focus on stations looking for Tromelin for an All Time New One (ATNO). Even if we made our best to give opportunities to everyone, there’s still a lot of work to do and we’ll try to do it as well as possible.

We kindly ask those having already a lot of QSO with us or with past operations to give a chance to others. This is HAM SPIRIT !

17 and 20m are the best bands for an ATNO and we will try to keep 2 stations on those bands. During daylight, 20m and 17m are almost dead and start to wake-up in the afternoon and works well up to the middle of the night.

We worked on low bands with some West coast and Pacific stations at our sunrise and sunset. We will try to continue to have 40/80 and 160m at these moment +/- 1h. Today again we worked many US on 80 at our SS. We were also on 160 but with no luck. We will try agin tomorrow. We now know we have a good RX towards EU-NA, but still need to improve JA side.

We ask other stations to be cooperative. Too often, our TX frequencies get deliberate QRM, especially on low bands. We are aware of this when reports need to be sent 10 times for each station. To avoid time losses, we are doing a QSY to another band or mode. Yes, that’s a pity !

We made the request of our LoTW certificate just before our departure and sent all documentations to the ARRL HQ. Once on the island, we sent the remaining document to let them validate the certificate. We took the decision to upload immediately the log on LoTW (during the operation). This is a simple way to thank all of you for your help and support and we think that’s part of a good operation when possible.

We are now close to the 60K contacts. We are very tired due to the lack of sleep but we are ready for the last weekend ! Good luck to all of you !

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 07, 2014, 11:04:48 AM
The most important stat of all is that K3STX has one greenie;

Congrats on the new one, Paul.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AA6YQ on November 07, 2014, 11:33:14 AM
But where do you start when the pileup is 30khz wide? Look for the last station they just worked?

Yes.  You just answered your own question.

Unless you have a killer CW/RTTY signal, calling on the frequency of the station just worked will be unlikely to succeed. Calling on an unused frequency slightly above or below the "just worked" frequency, depending upon the general direction the DX station has most recently been taking through the pileup, is more likely to bring joy.

One of the FT4TA SSB ops has a penchant for frequencies that are even multiples of 5 KHz, and does work several stations on the same frequency before moving on. If you see this behavior, I suggest calling 5 KHz up or down from the current QSX unless you have a very strong signal.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4OGW on November 07, 2014, 12:27:19 PM
Interesting statistics. They have spent twice as much time on 10M as they have on 20M. And they have more than FOUR times as many QSOs on 10 than they do on 20 with Europe. Strange that 10M would be the "money band" to Europe.


Not that surprising- the equivalent path here, USA/SA, is usually pretty reliable on 10M even if 10M is dead in other directions.

Tor
N4OGW
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 07, 2014, 12:30:45 PM
For the coming 3 days, we want to focus on stations looking for Tromelin for an All Time New One (ATNO).

I've decided not to call any more unless they're begging (unlikely). Good luck to those in need.
73 Paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 07, 2014, 12:37:21 PM
For the coming 3 days, we want to focus on stations looking for Tromelin for an All Time New One (ATNO).

I've decided not to call any more unless they're begging (unlikely). Good luck to those in need.
73 Paul

X2. I have my 1 QSO. An ATNO is an ATNO.. I'm happy with what I have. From the sounds of it, they are not begging as the pileups are still pretty wide.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 07, 2014, 01:15:54 PM
But where do you start when the pileup is 30khz wide? Look for the last station they just worked?

Yes.  You just answered your own question.

Unless you have a killer CW/RTTY signal, calling on the frequency of the station just worked will be unlikely to succeed. Calling on an unused frequency slightly above or below the "just worked" frequency, depending upon the general direction the DX station has most recently been taking through the pileup, is more likely to bring joy.

Who said anything about calling on the frequency of the last caller?  You still have to figure out what the pattern is and the only way to do that is to find the stations he's working and see where he goes after every Q.  Only then can you put your own transmitted signal in the right place.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on November 07, 2014, 01:49:04 PM
For the coming 3 days, we want to focus on stations looking for Tromelin for an All Time New One (ATNO).

I've decided not to call any more unless they're begging (unlikely). Good luck to those in need.
73 Paul

X2. I have my 1 QSO. An ATNO is an ATNO.. I'm happy with what I have. From the sounds of it, they are not begging as the pileups are still pretty wide.

I will stand down as well.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 07, 2014, 01:55:54 PM
We kindly ask those having already a lot of QSO with us or with past operations to give a chance to others. This is HAM SPIRIT !

Maybe in years past it was the Ham Spirit. The Ham Spirit I see today is Jamming, playing music, tuning up, Traffic Cops screaming Up Up Up, CW Cops sending FU FU LID LID ASS ASS. And much more. That is the New Ham Spirit. And it is sad and Sickens Me.

I still have the Old Ham Spirit. I will take the Pledge. NO MORE FT4TA QSOes for me. I have 6 confirmed  and just made a RTTY QSO earlier today before I read your post. The pileups just got smaller by one ham.

You are right, let us give the last days to those Hams that do not have any QSOes and need the ATNO.

So who else has the Ham Spirit of old? Is everyone else ready to back off so the needy hams have a better chance? Take the Ham Spirit Pledge...

GO GET THEM VINNIE....  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7WQ on November 07, 2014, 02:28:07 PM
K9IUQ's comments are sad but true.  I hope those that need it for an ATNO get it.  Back in the early 80's  I held an EL2 call from Liberia, I  worked at the US embassy there.   I would be working a pileup and would ask every half hour or so for the big  guns to qrx and would ask for low power, barefoot  stations and those with antenna challenges.  Don't know how well it worked, but I think it did help a lot guys get through the roar.  A little consideration, courtesy, and patience never hurt anyone.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 07, 2014, 02:55:17 PM
I am very happy with 4 so no more for me. I just lowered my antenna so I can finish what I was doing before I was interrupted by FT4TA. It's been fixed on Tromelin for the past 10 days.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 07, 2014, 02:57:42 PM
Sure, I'm done. No 80M contact for me (THIS time). Hopefully the big guns will lay off and some of the smaller stations/QRP can get a shot. Who wants to wait another decade (assuming you HAVE another decade)!!

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 07, 2014, 04:59:13 PM
Sure, I'm done. No 80M contact for me
paul

I was lucky and got the 80m contact right at the start. Lucky is the key word.

I really wanted to get a 30m QSO. I find that band difficult for me, I refuse to run more than 100 watts on this band and my antenna is really not the best for long haul. I am just not competitive on 30m with the pileups so big. No 30m contact for me.  :'(

Stan K9IUQ

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W5RDW on November 07, 2014, 05:52:28 PM
Just broke thru the 30M mess. Got them after they came back on after going for a short QRT. My inverted V at 30 feet needs to be improved!

Now I wish I could get them on 40 meters, but that pileup has been insane whenever I get on.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB3LIX on November 07, 2014, 06:34:36 PM
'3LIX, you sound like you are 10 years old - are you?

Col, MM0NDX


AHHH, 10 years old again, what a wonderful thought.

So now I am 10 years old...a while back I was called a NAZI by a guy in California, a 10 year old NAZI....whoda thunk ???
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 07, 2014, 06:42:02 PM
Okay, I'm done, worked them this AM on 80m, only need 15m but will respect the wishes of the DXpedition.  

Now it's time to get ready for EP and Navassa Isl. which will be very easy.  Will leave the amp off for this one.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 07, 2014, 06:51:39 PM
They're going full tilt on 20m cw - 14023 - right now, vy few lids and strong sig as well.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 07, 2014, 07:16:06 PM
OK....... Tried em tonite, after not calling for 3 or 4 days.   Picked up 30 and 80CW (New 80M DXCC!).

Just saw their request to stand down and allow ATNOs.  I am for that. 3 Bands is more than I expected, especially 80!

GL to all still needing this one ;D

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 07, 2014, 07:23:16 PM
OK....... Tried em tonite, after not calling for 3 or 4 days.   Picked up 30 and 80CW (New 80M DXCC!).

Just saw their request to stand down and allow ATNOs.  I am for that. 3 Bands is more than I expected, especially 80!

GL to all still needing this one ;D

73, Gene AF3Y

I heard both your QSOs, Gene. Congrats!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 07, 2014, 07:38:40 PM
Picked up 30 and 80CW (New 80M DXCC!).

These are the two bands I still need!  Congrats!

For those still looking for an ATNO they are pounding in on 20m CW tonight.  Tomorrow watch for 10m.  The pileups are getting thinner and I think the QRM'ers have packed up.  GL to all.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W9OY on November 07, 2014, 07:48:41 PM
Got them on 80 40 and 30 CW tonight.  Good cdx and excellent operators all listening only 1.5 to 3 khz up and they were apparently beaming NA.  On 30 and 80 they were loud but 40M was a hail mary because they were already over an hour into their daylight before the QSO and fading fast.  The panadapter on my SDR was a definite advantage since on the low bands most of the calling stations are in your skip zone and one can effectively tail end the 5NN of the calling station in the panfall with a mouse click.  Very enjoyable.

73  W9OY
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on November 07, 2014, 08:13:16 PM
Must  resist  the  urge  to  transmit.....  ;D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 07, 2014, 10:00:19 PM
I was out with my XYL tonight for our anniversary dinner so no shot at 80. I did bag them late tonight on 20 CW after a 3+ hour slog, though. That'll do it for me, unless I can snag 'em on 80 tonight or Sunday. Definitely a bit disappointing for me in terms of lowbands; first shutout on 80 in years, but them's the breaks. I used up my DX Karma with them on the high bands and RTTY, though. Without question, this was a rough DXpedition to work, though I'd say the only one worse in my recent memory was their trip to Glorioso a few years back.

On the upside, their decision to upload to LoTW was a magnificent surprise that unquestionably made an awful lot of folks extremely happy, especially me.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: HS0ZIB on November 08, 2014, 05:29:06 AM
Just got them for an ATNO on 15m from my mobile station.

Not a huge distance from Tromelin Island to Phuket Island (5,500Km), but not bad for a short, bendy antenna from my car :)

I'm happy.  Will try them on i80m from my QTH, but not hopeful, (still setting up my vertical ax)

Simon
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 08, 2014, 05:54:48 AM
Definitely a bit disappointing for me in terms of lowbands; first shutout on 80 in years, but them's the breaks.

What was your problem Pete?  Was it RX or trying to break through the pile up?  I was never able to hear them on 80m well enough to call.  However a number of local big guns with beverages worked them on 80m without sweating.

Without question, this was a rough DXpedition to work, though I'd say the only one worse in my recent memory was their trip to Glorioso a few years back.

What was Glorioso ranked when it went QRV?  I do know it was conducted at the bottom of the solar cycle but every competitors of your are on the same level playing field.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 08, 2014, 06:10:41 AM
Must  resist  the  urge  to  transmit.....  ;D


For the coming 3 days, we want to focus on stations looking for Tromelin for an All Time New One (ATNO). Even if we made our best to give opportunities to everyone, there’s still a lot of work to do and we’ll try to do it as well as possible.

We kindly ask those having already a lot of QSO with us or with past operations to give a chance to others. This is HAM SPIRIT !


Someday in ham-heaven you shall be rewarded.  Not in this life though!   :)

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 08, 2014, 06:47:53 AM
Must  resist  the  urge  to  transmit.....  ;D

I caught myself last night starting to tune up to work them but then I stopped and counted to ten and found something else to do  ;D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 08, 2014, 07:23:01 AM
What was Glorioso ranked when it went QRV? 

K8CX's site

http://hamgallery.com/

has the "100 Most Wanted Countries 1993 - 2013" you can compare the rankings year to year easily.

Neat website.

73, Tom
N5MOA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on November 08, 2014, 07:35:25 AM
Must  resist  the  urge  to  transmit.....  ;D

I caught myself last night starting to tune up to work them but then I stopped and counted to ten and found something else to do  ;D

It's tough. :) I hope it makes a small difference for someone that needs that ATNO.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K6EK on November 08, 2014, 08:09:47 AM
  Oh this is frustrating ! First clear reception here in a week (on 15) and then, just like that, they were gone, apparently on all bands. Time for nite-nite on Tromelin ?  LOL - I'll keep listening on all likely bands for awhile, bearing in mind the likely CME blast later today. 

If it was easy it would be no fun, but doable would also be good.

Ken
K6EK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 08, 2014, 08:21:04 AM
AHHH, 10 years old again, what a wonderful thought.

Reminds me of "Kick the Can" on The Twilight Zone.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 08, 2014, 08:49:43 AM
Must  resist  the  urge  to  transmit.....  ;D

I caught myself last night starting to tune up to work them but then I stopped and counted to ten and found something else to do  ;D

We should have "The Contest", like on Seinfeld.   ;D
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AB3CX on November 08, 2014, 01:42:19 PM
Today the 10M SSB op went QRT around 15:00Z when unruly pileup  would not stand by for the station he was calling.  This op had just subbed in 15 min earlier. May have been around their dinner time. I think nerves there must be worn thin.  They were off all the bands then as far as I could tell.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 08, 2014, 03:42:40 PM
Sure would like to see a log update.   I would hate to think that my 30 and 80 QSOs were NIL.
(Especially when I still have time to re-work them.)

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 08, 2014, 04:51:58 PM
Definitely a bit disappointing for me in terms of lowbands; first shutout on 80 in years, but them's the breaks.

What was your problem Pete?  Was it RX or trying to break through the pile up?  I was never able to hear them on 80m well enough to call.  However a number of local big guns with beverages worked them on 80m without sweating.
Never heard them except Friday night, when my wife and I were going out for our 14th anniversary dinner. I was hoping to get them tonight but they're not there.

Without question, this was a rough DXpedition to work, though I'd say the only one worse in my recent memory was their trip to Glorioso a few years back.

What was Glorioso ranked when it went QRV?  I do know it was conducted at the bottom of the solar cycle but every competitors of your are on the same level playing field.
It wasn't the fact that it was at solar minimum, but that they just didn't know when to be on which band, they heavily favoured EU even when NA had a good shot and they were absent for long periods due to the military on Glorioso needing to use their own radios. When I heard it was the same team activating Tromelin I was afraid of a repeat performance but this one was much better in a lot of respects--though still problematic. They were #8 world in 2009 when they were activated, and dropped to 43rd the next year. They're at 25 now.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K2DFC on November 08, 2014, 05:33:29 PM
It's the last night. I finally hear them on 20 cw. and the pileup is still 25 khz wide. Guess nobody got them on 20 yet. Still looking for my first contact. Not much hope now.
K2DFC
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 08, 2014, 05:37:27 PM
It's the last night. I finally hear them on 20 cw. and the pileup is still 25 khz wide. Guess nobody got them on 20 yet. Still looking for my first contact. Not much hope now.
K2DFC

Hey welcome to my world. We've got a long life ahead of us, so we'll get it next time. I say on to the next ATNOs we CAN get!  :)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K2DFC on November 08, 2014, 05:43:04 PM


Hey welcome to my world. We've got a long life ahead of us, so we'll get it next time. I say on to the next ATNOs we CAN get!  :)

Now that's positive thinking.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WB2KSP on November 08, 2014, 05:55:38 PM
In all my years of operating I have never seen such a poor display of operating technique as I have in this DXPedition. Working with wire antennas and 100 watts it can be a challenge to compete which I understand going in. I'm not going to get through most pileups at the start. After a few days the excitement dies down and even stations like mine can make at least a single contact. I've worked just about every island around Tromelin in the Indian ocean with my station. Propagation between that part of the world and mine usually allows for a contact. Not this time. even tonight with the DXPedition winding down people still don't know what up means and the CW cops are in full force repeating up up up enough times so that even if you don't know CW you have time to learn it before they finish. Do I sound frustrated? Maybe a little but I've resigned myself to the fact that this is only a hobby and even with my wire and low power I've gone from 105 confirmed in late 2011 to 284 confirmed today. I realize that when Navassa is operating in January, chances are good that I'll be able to add another new one to the list. Still, the jamming and other intentional forms of QRM have been disheartening. I don't know if it's due to all of the new no code ops using readers or it's due to some other reason having nothing to do with radio but pointing towards some other human weakness, but what has gone on this past week has not been a great advertisement for the hobby.
   
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 08, 2014, 05:58:17 PM
Just wait for Navassa and I have a feeling the bar will drop a lot lower.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 08, 2014, 06:14:08 PM
In all my years of operating I have never seen such a poor display of operating technique as I have in this DXPedition. Working with wire antennas and 100 watts it can be a challenge to compete which I understand going in. I'm not going to get through most pileups at the start. After a few days the excitement dies down and even stations like mine can make at least a single contact. ...
   

David -  I checked out your QRZ page - very nice work for your situation! I'm also doing the 100W / homemade antenna thing and I've been very pleased with my results. And yes I agree, the madness on this DXpedition is nothing like I've seen, and yes I've worked pileups to get my confirmations, such as Mellish Reef and others, and it was hard but not really aggravating. This one was the worst showing of ham behavior I've witnessed since I got back into HF! Jamming, squeaky toy noises, Kops, cussing and swearing ... and I looked up a lot of the calls that were calling out of sequence and on top of DX and they were Extra Class!!!

Just wait for Navassa and I have a feeling the bar will drop a lot lower.

 :-[
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 08, 2014, 06:16:08 PM
Just wait for Navassa and I have a feeling the bar will drop a lot lower.

Navassa has some of the world's best operators going, so any problems will not be from their lack of understanding how to handle insane pileups. I mean, seriously, if it were just George and Tomi alone they could probably satisfy global demand for Navassa as an all-time new one. But add in the rest of that team, and if there's a licensee left in the world who still needs Navassa by the end of their DXpedition it'll be because they were out of town or had taken up golf instead.

That's not to say the pileup behaviour out of Europe won't be worse than we've seen with FT4TA, because it will. Given Navassa's location, the EU whingers will be in fine form, accusing the K1N team of deliberately ignoring their continent in favour of N.A.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K2DFC on November 08, 2014, 06:42:50 PM
I'm lucky with Navassa. Have cards from the last 3 expeditions from the 70's and 80's.

Still trying on 20 cw.

K2DFC
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 08, 2014, 07:02:29 PM
I finally hear them on 20 cw. and the pileup is still 25 khz wide. Guess nobody got them on 20 yet. Still looking for my first contact.

I think their request for those with multiple qsos to stand down pretty much fell on deaf ears.

I like to chase slots myself, and if band fills is one of the dxpeditions goals, I'm more than happy to try and oblige.

But people should respect the dx-peds request when/if that changes. Unfortunately, I very seldom see that happening. Some will, most won't.

 Other than a 2 call 10m ssb qso on 11/5 and some tries (1 qso) from the mobile, I've been out of the pileups since last Sunday evening. 

Still a nice signal on 20m cw here, hope you can manage a qso.


73, Tom
N5MOA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 08, 2014, 07:05:28 PM
That's not to say the pileup behaviour out of Europe won't be worse than we've seen with FT4TA, because it will.

I'm not so sure the pileup behavior out of NA is any better.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO2C on November 08, 2014, 07:38:38 PM
In all my years of operating I have never seen such a poor display of operating technique as I have in this DXPedition. Working with wire antennas and 100 watts it can be a challenge to compete which I understand going in. I'm not going to get through most pileups at the start. After a few days the excitement dies down and even stations like mine can make at least a single contact. I've worked just about every island around Tromelin in the Indian ocean with my station. Propagation between that part of the world and mine usually allows for a contact. Not this time. even tonight with the DXPedition winding down people still don't know what up means and the CW cops are in full force repeating up up up enough times so that even if you don't know CW you have time to learn it before they finish. Do I sound frustrated? Maybe a little but I've resigned myself to the fact that this is only a hobby and even with my wire and low power I've gone from 105 confirmed in late 2011 to 284 confirmed today. I realize that when Navassa is operating in January, chances are good that I'll be able to add another new one to the list. Still, the jamming and other intentional forms of QRM have been disheartening. I don't know if it's due to all of the new no code ops using readers or it's due to some other reason having nothing to do with radio but pointing towards some other human weakness, but what has gone on this past week has not been a great advertisement for the hobby.
   
With 284 confirmed, you should feel proud of your achievement, David. (I'm about 100 behind you: since 2011 184 worked/183 confirmed with 100 watts & a Buddipole.) I do agree with you about the on air behavior. Much of what I've heard this past week makes me ashamed of the Amateur Service.
An Amateur Extra since 1989, I'm a "know code" ham; yet, I'm not certain the lack of CW skill has much to do with the present situation.  A few minutes listening in the phone portion of the bands will confirm this.
In any event, you're correct--it's a hobby; nothing more.
Looking forward to Navassa.
73,
Ray, WO2C
P.S.: I worked Tromelin on three modes: Zero, Zilch, and Nada.  ;)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 08, 2014, 09:06:42 PM
I think their request for those with multiple qsos to stand down pretty much fell on deaf ears. I like to chase slots myself, and if band fills is one of the dxpeditions goals, I'm more than happy to try and oblige.
I really wanted a 30m RTTY QSO, and they were loud and obliging tonight but I chose to keep the radio off. I monitored for about 10 minutes and plugged all the calls I'd heard the FT4 work into the online lookup. I was pleasantly surprised to see that all but one in that 10 minute period had no previous contacts with FT4TA. So nice to see that happen.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on November 08, 2014, 09:08:29 PM
I think their request for those with multiple qsos to stand down pretty much fell on deaf ears. I like to chase slots myself, and if band fills is one of the dxpeditions goals, I'm more than happy to try and oblige.
I really wanted a 30m RTTY QSO, and they were loud and obliging tonight but I chose to keep the radio off. I monitored for about 10 minutes and plugged all the calls I'd heard the FT4 work into the online lookup. I was pleasantly surprised to see that all but one in that 10 minute period had no previous contacts with FT4TA. So nice to see that happen.

That is good to hear.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 08, 2014, 09:14:50 PM
A 30 meter RTTY QSO would have made pretty much a clean sweep for me, as it was the last workable band I needed, and I have no RTTY Qs.  But I didn't enter the fray, partially out of "ham spirit," but even more out of sheer exhaustion trying to work them.  I'm looking forward to things getting back to normal for a while... my radio time has been all FT4, all the time this week.  The QSOs did not come easy on this one, for sure.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 09, 2014, 01:42:13 AM
You really don't like us over here do you ???

It's only a small few in southern EU that gives us all a bad name,


Trevor
EI2GLB


Quote from: W2IRT

That's not to say the pileup behaviour out of Europe won't be worse than we've seen with FT4TA, because it will. Given Navassa's location, the EU whingers will be in fine form, accusing the K1N team of deliberately ignoring their continent in favour of N.A.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: MM0NDX on November 09, 2014, 03:27:26 AM
Here's an update direct from their sat-phone. Please pass the word to any publications:

UPDATE – Today the team got in touch via sat-phone to inform they do not have internet anymore on the island. The logs are safe, but no more uploads will take place until they return to Mayotte on Monday. Later today they may be off air for 1 or 2 hours as they start to disassemble. No more 80/160 activity will take place. The focus tonight is 30 and 40m. They have made nearly 70,000 QSOs.  Since there is no more internet please refrain from contacting pilots as the team will not now receive any new messages.

73 Col, MM0NDX
Chief Pilot FT4TA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU4B on November 09, 2014, 03:29:07 AM
You really don't like us over here do you ???

It's only a small few in southern EU that gives us all a bad name,


Trevor
EI2GLB


Quote from: W2IRT

That's not to say the pileup behaviour out of Europe won't be worse than we've seen with FT4TA, because it will. Given Navassa's location, the EU whingers will be in fine form, accusing the K1N team of deliberately ignoring their continent in favour of N.A.

Its not that we don't like you guys (well...I like you guys), its that if any expedition in the world works less than 80% EU contacts, you all accuse them of being a "NA only" expedition. And as your own people (aka the FT4TA team) have remarked EU refuses to QRX when an expedition wants to work some other place than EU and if the expedition tries, everything and anything is done to make the attempt unsuccessful. (OK, I may exaggerate.  ;D a little  ;D)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 09, 2014, 03:41:46 AM
Problem for me usually is when expeditions go NA only it is right in the middle of peak prop to EI, I can only dream about the openings the get in southern EU

Another issue is that most of us have to work we are not all retired oil tycoons and dot com billionaires like ye lot over there  ;D so we get no chance to work them during the day,


Trevor
EI2GLB






You really don't like us over here do you ???

It's only a small few in southern EU that gives us all a bad name,


Trevor
EI2GLB


Quote from: W2IRT

That's not to say the pileup behaviour out of Europe won't be worse than we've seen with FT4TA, because it will. Given Navassa's location, the EU whingers will be in fine form, accusing the K1N team of deliberately ignoring their continent in favour of N.A.

Its not that we don't like you guys (well...I like you guys), its that if any expedition in the world works less than 80% EU contacts, you all accuse them of being a "NA only" expedition. And as your own people (aka the FT4TA team) have remarked EU refuses to QRX when an expedition wants to work some other place than EU and if the expedition tries, everything and anything is done to make the attempt unsuccessful. (OK, I may exaggerate.  ;D a little  ;D)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NU4B on November 09, 2014, 04:19:09 AM
Problem for me usually is when expeditions go NA only it is right in the middle of peak prop to EI, I can only dream about the openings the get in southern EU

Another issue is that most of us have to work we are not all retired oil tycoons and dot com billionaires like ye lot over there  ;D so we get no chance to work them during the day,


Trevor
EI2GLB






You really don't like us over here do you ???

It's only a small few in southern EU that gives us all a bad name,


Trevor
EI2GLB


Quote from: W2IRT

That's not to say the pileup behaviour out of Europe won't be worse than we've seen with FT4TA, because it will. Given Navassa's location, the EU whingers will be in fine form, accusing the K1N team of deliberately ignoring their continent in favour of N.A.

Its not that we don't like you guys (well...I like you guys), its that if any expedition in the world works less than 80% EU contacts, you all accuse them of being a "NA only" expedition. And as your own people (aka the FT4TA team) have remarked EU refuses to QRX when an expedition wants to work some other place than EU and if the expedition tries, everything and anything is done to make the attempt unsuccessful. (OK, I may exaggerate.  ;D a little  ;D)

If I'm a millionaire, please, somebody, send me my check!  ;D
All of us have life out side of DXing that many times requires us to limit our radio time. All of us face the epidemic of lid operation that seems to get worse by the month. I haven't worked these guys and probably won't, but its not because there were too many EU contacts, or too many jammers, or too many lids, or too many police, or any other distraction that is easy to blame. None of us had anything to do with where Ireland ended up on the map. We can only control how we operate our stations and how efficient our stations are.
I looked at this operation from the beginning. There were relatively few operators, not much time, and a huge demand. Looking at the location of Tromelin its not hard to figure out the Qs are going to be heavy EU. Its common sense. So I adjusted my expectation accordingly.
But I know of one QRP op in the middle of NA that worked these guys early on. He had a plan and did it. So its not like these guys were impossible to work, even with 5 watts.
I've quit blaming leader boards, DX clusters, and anything else. Its more productive to look in the mirror, figure out what went wrong, and fix it.

And this idea that some people have that its the expedition's fault the desired QSO(s) didn't get made is bunk. I know at least one post on this topic that blamed the expedition for just about everything. Such foolishness!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 09, 2014, 04:52:21 AM
I looked at this operation from the beginning. There were relatively few operators, not much time, and a huge demand. Looking at the location of Tromelin its not hard to figure out the Qs are going to be heavy EU. Its common sense. So I adjusted my expectation accordingly.
But I know of one QRP op in the middle of NA that worked these guys early on. He had a plan and did it. So its not like these guys were impossible to work, even with 5 watts.
I've quit blaming leader boards, DX clusters, and anything else. Its more productive to look in the mirror, figure out what went wrong, and fix it.

And this idea that some people have that its the expedition's fault the desired QSO(s) didn't get made is bunk.
I know at least one post on this topic that blamed the expedition for just about everything. Such foolishness!

All very good points.

Overall, for such a needed entity, the team did a good job.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 09, 2014, 05:09:29 AM
Is RTTY a useful mode for a DXpedition an ATNO? (I have never operated RTTY.) It is a shame they are doing So much RTTY and the last 2 days. It should be all CW on whatever band they are one.

Paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 09, 2014, 05:17:52 AM
And doing it in the middle of one of the biggest RTTY contests is making things worse,

Is RTTY a useful mode for a DXpedition an ATNO? (I have never operated RTTY.) It is a shame they are doing So much RTTY and the last 2 days. It should be all CW on whatever band they are one.

Paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 09, 2014, 05:20:12 AM
Each team decides internally what its goals and efforts should be. Having been on the "other side" of things, I would never criticize their plan or their effort.

Just consider this...no matter what they do, someone on an internet forum is going to complain.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 09, 2014, 05:21:25 AM
One way I gauge these things is by the size of the expedition.

Early in my career, when DX challenge was in n its infancy, my little pistol station could expect to get one QSO maybe two if the Q total was 50k.  Didn't matter much where it was.

Today, I would say with the same station it would take 150k As to be sure of it thanks largely to Challenge.  This one looks to be 80k then?  Gonna be some tears then.

Even with my big station I didn't get Annobon earlier this year with about the same path and one guy trying to work the world.

In the end, it is mostly about rate.  The smaller the Q total, the smaller my chances. My now big station ups my odds but overall rate still rules my totals.

When the supply is too low for worldwide demand, it is a sad truism that many deserving stations will lose.  When I was a littler station, I learned that you can play it very well and still not be the one picked out of the pile because so did five other guys.

I don't remember any "begging" spots for this one.  Need to see those if you want everyone to get at least one Q.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 09, 2014, 05:30:30 AM
As for RTTY I approve of their concentration on it.  I'm out of town so no more for me and I too was eschewing filling out all the band-mode slots but the splits for RTTY were insane.

Some folks do want HR on RTTY and they deserve their shot.  Were I still at home I'd be trying for one RTTY somewhere.  "No" code hams could use RTTY the way some little stations use CW, so there will still be some ATNOs coming.

Any small station not on RTTY needs to be.  This operating plan is pretty normal now.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 09, 2014, 05:41:18 AM
One way I gauge these things is by the size of the expedition.

Dxpedition teams may well be limited on their size (number of ops) via the permit process used to gain access to a particular location. FT4TA may have had that issue.

Some teams even face obstacles of where antennas may be placed, as in the ZL9 Campbell Island DXpedition.

Many things, that we don't know, or are not disclosed, may handicap a dxpedition team's effort.

It would have been great to have 10-12 station capability for such a rare entity (FR/T), but that is not the way it is. So we deal with what we are given and be grateful for that.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VK3HJ on November 09, 2014, 06:21:00 AM
In the end, I had a very satisfying outcome.

I managed three bands CW in the first 24 hours, then nothing for about a week.

Then, a new band or mode just about every day, finishing with a 17 m RTTY QSO, to pick up the third mode and 80 - 12 m.

This took patience, persistence, a bit of luck, and a reasonably capable station. But I didn't spend every day and night at the radio. Most QSO were made "after hours".

By comparison, FT5ZM and TX5K were almost "too easy"!

Now looking forward to K1N.

73,
Luke VK3HJ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2RJ on November 09, 2014, 06:21:52 AM
Problem for me usually is when expeditions go NA only it is right in the middle of peak prop to EI, I can only dream about the openings the get in southern EU

Peak prop to EU/EI may be the only or a smaller opening to other parts of the world. Just bear that in mind.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 09, 2014, 06:25:00 AM
Is RTTY a useful mode for a DXpedition an ATNO? (I have never operated RTTY.) It is a shame they are doing So much RTTY and the last 2 days. It should be all CW on whatever band they are one.

Paul

It's not their fault if you don't do RTTY.

I was very pleased to finally see an operation that gave equal time to RTTY, rather than the usual practice of waiting until the last few days to add it (still) with everything else. Because of the current limits on my antenna selection and hours of operation, I was only able to work them twice on RTTY. I will do whatever mode I have to for the ATNO and, as in this case, I may jump on a spot if I'm sitting by the radio and I can get in and out quickly, but I prefer to work nothing but RTTY.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 09, 2014, 06:45:55 AM
It's not their fault if you don't do RTTY.

It's also not their fault that I don't do SSB either, but that was not the point. From what I understand, the rate with a good CW op on the DX end can exceed that of SSB by alot, I just wonder how RTTY stacks up for "rate". After all, we are really only talking about rate if we want ATNO's for guys who do not have a QSO yet.

If SSB rate exceeds CW rate then they should stick with SSB. Most Hams have a microphone even if they don't like using it. It just depends if they feel it is important to use that mic to get an ATNO.

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 09, 2014, 07:20:58 AM
It's not their fault if you don't do RTTY.

It's also not their fault that I don't do SSB either, but that was not the point. From what I understand, the rate with a good CW op on the DX end can exceed that of SSB by alot, I just wonder how RTTY stacks up for "rate". After all, we are really only talking about rate if we want ATNO's for guys who do not have a QSO yet.

If SSB rate exceeds CW rate then they should stick with SSB. Most Hams have a microphone even if they don't like using it. It just depends if they feel it is important to use that mic to get an ATNO.

paul

There was a recent QST article (addendum December 2013 QST) that explored the weak signal effectiveness of each mode.  CW and RTTY give a much better chance for a QSO on tough paths than does SSB.  I'd sacrifice a percentage of rate any day for a far greater chance at a QSO.  If I recall in order of weak signal capability it was JTXX - CW - RTTY - SSB.  And before it starts again I would never advocate sacrificing rate to the extreme of JTXX!!!

I also applaud the FT4TA team for running RTTY early and often.  I'd enjoy seeing a world class RTTY op like W0YK or AA5AU go on one of these trips and see what kind of rtty rate they could put up.    
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 09, 2014, 07:46:29 AM
You really don't like us over here do you ???
It's only a small few in southern EU that gives us all a bad name,

Quote from: W2IRT
That's not to say the pileup behaviour out of Europe won't be worse than we've seen with FT4TA, because it will. Given Navassa's location, the EU whingers will be in fine form, accusing the K1N team of deliberately ignoring their continent in favour of N.A.

Unfortunately those few from the south taint the many good ops, and I could say the exact same statement for my country as well. But my comments refer to the cluster bullies, the on-air bullies from the southern and eastern bits of the continent and the usually-benign but just poor operating habits of a great many others.

EU outnumbers NA (I would say somewhat significantly now, and it's getting worse due to severe antenna restrictions in the southern and southwestern United States), and the path between rare and ultra-rare DXCC entities is quite often a cakewalk for all or most of Europe, whereas those same entities are often polar paths to NA, or we share propagation with your fellow EU citizens. Accordingly, Ham Spirit and good operating practice should mean an equitable shot for ops over the more difficult path--like the south pacific to EU or the far east to east-coast NA. Yet when the DX fires up the vile comments on the cluster and over top of the DX "WHY ALWAYS USA" and the like prevail. The stats tell the story; look no further than Tromelin's numbers to each continent. And we won't get into the whole "which continent's operators contribute more to DXpedition funding" argument.

I love running EU pileups in contests and pre-contest warmups, I love visiting as many places as I can and I find the people are wonderful. I've been to Friedrichshafen and will be going again next year and I will be enjoying myself tremendously at the RRDXA and BCC dinners. So yes, there are a great many EU hams who are good, kind and considerate operators but the bottom line is that DXers in NA are often on the short end of the pileup stick when a rare one comes on. We see who's doing most of the bullying and wherefrom most of the cluster whinging comes from.

I will never, ever begrudge any ham, anywhere, a fair opportunity to make a contact with a rare station. I'm a clear shot to Navassa and will probably bag them across the spectrum in a day or two. But my fellow hams in southeast Asia will have a difficult time of it; JA ops will probably do OK on 5, 6 or even 7 bands, but those in BY, VR2, 9V, 9M*, YB, HS and DS will have a rough path and, since many over there probably don't have towers, Yagis and legal-limit amps, it will be even rougher. I have ZERO problem with standing by during the few hours each day when Zones 23-28 have propagation to KP1 and I seriously doubt there will be more than one or two cluster crabs from the US who'll whine and moan about Asia getting all the breaks, etc.

So yeah, maybe I do occasionally paint the Continent unfairly, and with an overly-large brush, but that reputation has been well-deserved I'm sad to say. The teaching--and learning--of Ham Spirit and the adoption of the DX Code of Conduct in certain parts of the globe is sadly lacking.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 09, 2014, 07:59:25 AM
After all, we are really only talking about rate if we want ATNO's for guys who do not have a QSO yet.


I didn't see anything about rate here.

Is RTTY a useful mode for a DXpedition an ATNO? (I have never operated RTTY.) It is a shame they are doing So much RTTY and the last 2 days. It should be all CW on whatever band they are one.

That looks a whole lot more like personal preference.




If I recall in order of weak signal capability it was JTXX - CW - RTTY - SSB.  And before it starts again I would never advocate sacrificing rate to the extreme of JTXX!!!

I'm sure a digital mode could be optimized for this application. Maybe some balance of narrow bandwidth and burst speed, along with a receiver that simultaneously decodes multiple signals. One round of listening could result in replies to several callers.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 09, 2014, 08:05:02 AM
I looked at this operation from the beginning. There were relatively few operators, not much time, and a huge demand. Looking at the location of Tromelin its not hard to figure out the Qs are going to be heavy EU. Its common sense. So I adjusted my expectation accordingly.
But I know of one QRP op in the middle of NA that worked these guys early on. He had a plan and did it. So its not like these guys were impossible to work, even with 5 watts.
I've quit blaming leader boards, DX clusters, and anything else. Its more productive to look in the mirror, figure out what went wrong, and fix it.

And this idea that some people have that its the expedition's fault the desired QSO(s) didn't get made is bunk.
I know at least one post on this topic that blamed the expedition for just about everything. Such foolishness!

All very good points.

Overall, for such a needed entity, the team did a good job.

I agree entirely with NU4B's post.  This is one of the most cogent posts in this entire thread.  There are far too many operators without the mojo...equipment or operating skills...to make a contact that are quick to look around and find someone else to blame for their failure.  Anyone but themselves.  That's not to say that the state of DXing isn't dismal, it is.  But to say this is the "worst" DXpediton for QRM and jamming ever is an exaggeration.   Many of you weren't even around for 3Y5X, Bouvet, back in 1990, but it was horrible too.  There were dire predictions back then about the state of DX, but here we are 25 years later and life and DX goes on.  That is only one example.  It's pointless to dredge up many more.

The operators on this expedition were great.  They did the best they could, I believe, given the reality of the situation.  The pileups were large and wide and that was to be expected.  And that is not to say poor operating on the part of the DX ops can't exacerbate the difficulty of a pileup, we know it can.  That wasn't the case here.  The operators did an amazing job of maximizing QSOs with NA under the circumstances.  If one can fault the operation, it would be the contradiction between claiming to want to give ATNOs and sticking with low rate bands/modes like 80m, 160m, and RTTY.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm thrilled with my 80m contact and would have dearly loved to get thru on 160.  It's just not how you maximize your rate and consequently ATNOs.  I'm really glad these guys could put this operation together and congratulate them on an excellent performance.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 09, 2014, 08:11:01 AM
I looked at this operation from the beginning. There were relatively few operators, not much time, and a huge demand. Looking at the location of Tromelin its not hard to figure out the Qs are going to be heavy EU. Its common sense. So I adjusted my expectation accordingly.
But I know of one QRP op in the middle of NA that worked these guys early on. He had a plan and did it. So its not like these guys were impossible to work, even with 5 watts.
I've quit blaming leader boards, DX clusters, and anything else. Its more productive to look in the mirror, figure out what went wrong, and fix it.

And this idea that some people have that its the expedition's fault the desired QSO(s) didn't get made is bunk.
I know at least one post on this topic that blamed the expedition for just about everything. Such foolishness!

All very good points.

Overall, for such a needed entity, the team did a good job.

I agree entirely with NU4B's post.  This is one of the most cogent posts in this entire thread.  There are far too many operators without the mojo...equipment or operating skills...to make a contact that are quick to look around and find someone else to blame for their failure.  Anyone but themselves.  That's not to say that the state of DXing isn't dismal, it is.  But to say this is the "worst" DXpediton for QRM and jamming ever is an exaggeration.   Many of you weren't even around for 3Y5X, Bouvet, back in 1990, but it was horrible too.  There were dire predictions back then about the state of DX, but here we are 25 years later and life and DX goes on.  That is only one example.  It's pointless to dredge up many more.

The operators on this expedition were great.  They did the best they could, I believe, given the reality of the situation.  The pileups were large and wide and that was to be expected.  And that is not to say poor operating on the part of the DX ops can't exacerbate the difficulty of a pileup, we know it can.  That wasn't the case here.  The operators did an amazing job of maximizing QSOs with NA under the circumstances.  If one can fault the operation, it would be the contradiction between claiming to want to give ATNOs and sticking with low rate bands/modes like 80m, 160m, and RTTY.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm thrilled with my 80m contact and would have dearly loved to get thru on 160.  It's just not how you maximize your rate and consequently ATNOs.  I'm really glad these guys could put this operation together and congratulate them on an excellent performance.

+1

Should have heard SSB in 1988 for the 3W8 Vietnam operation. I got them on CW only because the SSB pile and the QRM associated with it were so bad.

DXing is alive and well. I certainly do not view it as being in a dismal state.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 09, 2014, 08:14:37 AM
If one can fault the operation, it would be the contradiction between claiming to want to give ATNOs and sticking with low rate bands/modes like 80m, 160m, and RTTY.

That was all I was trying to say, you put it more clearly. It seems to me that if what we want to do is give people ATNOs we need a fast rate mode. If it is CW, so be it. If it is SSB, so be it. I have my one QSO, so it does not affect me, but last night in NA evening (prime time) they were on RTTY on 30 meters, this morning (prime time) they were on RTTY on 17 and 15 meters. I guess RTTY guys love this, but little pistols looking for their one QSO probably do not. I am not complaining, maybe somebody planning a DXpedition might read this and plan differently for the future.

I had never thought of a 20M only DXpedition, but it doesn't seem like such a bad idea. But what do I know; this is an internet forum and we are allowed to speculate.

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 09, 2014, 08:21:33 AM
That was all I was trying to say, you put it more clearly. It seems to me that if what we want to do is give people ATNOs we need a fast rate mode. If it is CW, so be it. If it is SSB, so be it...

Well, why does the text mode of choice have to be RTTY? Why not go with something that has error correction like BPSK? Seems to me that would make for a lot cleaner copy and thus faster rates and less concern that your QSO was done correctly.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 09, 2014, 08:30:34 AM
Well, why does the text mode of choice have to be RTTY? Why not go with something that has error correction like BPSK? Seems to me that would make for a lot cleaner copy and thus faster rates and less concern that your QSO was done correctly.

Maybe because that is the mode type that the DXpedition team chose to use??
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 09, 2014, 08:35:57 AM
Maybe because that is the mode type that the DXpedition team chose to use??

Uh, well, yea, but you are just begging the question really. Why are they choosing a mode that is inferior to a new mode like BPSK with error correction.  :P
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 09, 2014, 08:44:14 AM
N5INP...you need to ask the organizers. That was my point. They dictate the modes that they will use. We can speculate all day long. Not all answers directed your way are meant to be sarcastic. If you truly want to know what and why teams do what they do....ASK!

Similar to why some operations are SSB only, or CW only, or minus any digital mode. It was a decision done by the organizers.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0RS on November 09, 2014, 08:54:02 AM
I had never thought of a 20M only DXpedition, but it doesn't seem like such a bad idea. But what do I know; this is an internet forum and we are allowed to speculate.

paul

Actually that used to be not too unusual back in the '60s.  Lots of DXers only had one beam, a 20m monobander.  That was the case with W1GKK, the only guy to have worked every deleted entity (country back then).  Of course this was before the advent of the DXCC Challenge which predicated that every DXer had to work everything everywhere.  Again don't get me wrong, I like the idea of working band-entities.  If it weren't for that, I wouldn't even have any goals in DXing.  Might as well sell all the equipment.  Then the guys with their Antron 99s and G5RVs would have one less station in the pileups keeping them from working their ATNO.  I say it's time to leave the DX to the guys that can't hear it.  Everyone deserves the chance at an imaginary QSO.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE8EV on November 09, 2014, 08:55:45 AM
That was all I was trying to say, you put it more clearly. It seems to me that if what we want to do is give people ATNOs we need a fast rate mode. If it is CW, so be it. If it is SSB, so be it...

Well, why does the text mode of choice have to be RTTY? Why not go with something that has error correction like BPSK? Seems to me that would make for a lot cleaner copy and thus faster rates and less concern that your QSO was done correctly.

RTTY is by far the best choice for speed vs. quality.  BPSK is lousy for polar paths and it doesn't have error correction.  The PSK and FSK modes that do have error correction are much, much slower on the whole.  I've pondered this issue before and always end up concluding that next to CW and SSB, RTTY is still the best choice for contesting and dxpeditions.

...
I had never thought of a 20M only DXpedition, but it doesn't seem like such a bad idea. But what do I know; this is an internet forum and we are allowed to speculate.

paul

When I did the CK8G IOTA expedition back in 2010 at the bottom of the cycle the only band open was 20m.  In just six days of operation on 20m SSB I worked 4500 unique callsigns.  With one or two more operators for CW and 24/7 operation it seems reasonable that 10K+ uniques would be very easy.  FT4TA has worked just over 15,000 unique calls...

John VE8EV
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 09, 2014, 09:03:49 AM
I'm not a RTTY guru but I run two RTTY decoders simultaneously.  One is my digital program and it decodes RTTY for me.  The second one is my head that I use to decode the garbage that is printed on my screen :D  Believe me it actually works pretty well.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 09, 2014, 09:08:35 AM

RTTY is by far the best choice for speed vs. quality.  BPSK is lousy for polar paths and it doesn't have error correction.  The PSK and FSK modes that do have error correction are much, much slower on the whole.  I've pondered this issue before and always end up concluding that next to CW and SSB, RTTY is still the best choice for contesting and dxpeditions.

John VE8EV

Could it also be the brute force factor...capable of being used with higher power/amplifiers?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 09, 2014, 09:15:35 AM
RTTY is by far the best choice for speed vs. quality. 

From http://www.arrl.org/psk31-has-rtty-s-replacement-arrived

Quote
The combination of narrow bandwidth, an efficient DSP algorithm and synchronized sampling creates a mode that can be received at very low signal levels. PSK31 rivals the weak-signal performance of CW and it is a vast improvement over RTTY, as I discovered first hand.

Quote
Operating PSK31 in the QPSK mode will give you 100% copy under most conditions
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE8EV on November 09, 2014, 09:16:57 AM

RTTY is by far the best choice for speed vs. quality.  BPSK is lousy for polar paths and it doesn't have error correction.  The PSK and FSK modes that do have error correction are much, much slower on the whole.  I've pondered this issue before and always end up concluding that next to CW and SSB, RTTY is still the best choice for contesting and dxpeditions.

John VE8EV

Could it also be the brute force factor...capable of being used with higher power/amplifiers?

There's no reason you can't run QRO with PSK BUT you'd better have all your levels set properly.  I can't even imagine what big DX pileup in PSK would sound like with lots of first timer operators with amplifiers trying to get through! (If you overdrive your audio on PSK it turns it into wideband garbage).  Take my word for it, though, if you really want someone to hear you on PSK (or even JT65) lighting the fire bottles WILL make them hear you...
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE8EV on November 09, 2014, 09:22:39 AM
RTTY is by far the best choice for speed vs. quality. 

From http://www.arrl.org/psk31-has-rtty-s-replacement-arrived

Quote
The combination of narrow bandwidth, an efficient DSP algorithm and synchronized sampling creates a mode that can be received at very low signal levels. PSK31 rivals the weak-signal performance of CW and it is a vast improvement over RTTY, as I discovered first hand.

Quote
Operating PSK31 in the QPSK mode will give you 100% copy under most conditions

Well, I believed that too until I started actually using it.  I'm not saying it can't be done, T32C made a bunch of contacts in PSK63 and there are several contests that use PSK125 but under the same conditions I think you could make a better rate with RTTY.  And PSK barely works at all on polar paths.

73
John VE8EV
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 09, 2014, 09:30:42 AM
RTTY is by far the best choice for speed vs. quality. 

From http://www.arrl.org/psk31-has-rtty-s-replacement-arrived

Quote
The combination of narrow bandwidth, an efficient DSP algorithm and synchronized sampling creates a mode that can be received at very low signal levels. PSK31 rivals the weak-signal performance of CW and it is a vast improvement over RTTY, as I discovered first hand.

Quote
Operating PSK31 in the QPSK mode will give you 100% copy under most conditions

Well, I believed that too until I started actually using it.  I'm not saying it can't be done, T32C made a bunch of contacts in PSK63 and there are several contests that use PSK125 but under the same conditions I think you could make a better rate with RTTY.  And PSK barely works at all on polar paths.

73
John VE8EV

Yes - PSK is ineffective with polar and multi-path.  Rate is also a problem because of the pre-disposed nature of everyday PSK macro exchanges.  Don't get me wrong - PSK is a great digi ragchew mode.  But brute force RTTY still is by far the best DXped digi mode IMO when taking into account rate and effectiveness with tough paths.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 09, 2014, 10:09:59 AM
I had never thought of a 20M only DXpedition, but it doesn't seem like such a bad idea. But what do I know; this is an internet forum and we are allowed to speculate

In this case the FT4 ops have said there is no one band that is open 24hrs a day but the idea of reducing time spent on various modes on multiple bands is valid IMHO, narrow the focus.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 09, 2014, 10:27:18 AM
I can just see the mess when some guys start sending his psk brag file to the DX  ;D

PSK125 would be ok for DX it's really fast as long as the text is kept short,
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 09, 2014, 01:07:09 PM
I have seen psk31 being decoded when I cannot even hear the signal.
I agree about the polar path but in just about every other instance i will take PSK31 over RTTY.
As someone stated earlier RTTY typically requires two decoders, the PC and my Brain to figure out whats on the screen
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 09, 2014, 01:49:59 PM
I have seen psk31 being decoded when I cannot even hear the signal.
I agree about the polar path but in just about every other instance i will take PSK31 over RTTY.
As someone stated earlier RTTY typically requires two decoders, the PC and my Brain to figure out whats on the screen

PSK of any stripe has several huge drawbacks in terms of being a good DX mode. What's nice about RTTY is that virtually every radio made has direct FSK keying with no TX sound card needed, and thus no "levels" problem. AFSK, PSK and all the other modes require careful attention toward your transmitted audio quality or else distortion becomes a major problem. Next, most PSK operators today are ragchewers--or rather, macro-exchangers with obnoxious brag files that they insist on playing for everybody. And finally, at least with true FSK, spotting a working frequency and QSX is dirt simple, not unlike CW or SSB. Not so much with PSK or AFSK, and finding a split on PSK is often confusing.

Any digital mode has to be easy to operate, easy to decode, easy to operate split with and hopefully easy to spot as well. And I really like the fact that RTTY doesn't by nature require a sound card to send. Now granted an RTTY split pileup is agonizing, especially with it's wide and deep, but I'd much rather deal with that than a miserable rate and a band full of horribly distorted PSK warbles and brag files.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5UD on November 09, 2014, 01:53:38 PM
Only 15,000 uniques ? That seems awfully low for a big operation.

I was checking clublog stats the other day. Some folks have QSO's with FT4 on every band and mode.
Thanks ARRL for the Challenge. Sadly this is done on every DXped by the same folks. Even the same DXCC. Why ?

That sure knocks out little pistols looking for ATNO.

The incessant calling is really rude and ridiculous. Whether SSB or CW when the DX op asks for 5 United Delta, stop calling !
It is mind boggling. There would be more QSO's if people would stop the calling. I hear the DX call multiple times for a station, and the station does not respond or the crowd calls on top of him. LISTEN, or do some folks just don't hear but have the amp to get through anyway ? Sometimes nearly every QSO is done this way. The DX ops must have unlimited patience.

It used to be 20M was the main band. It really still is. 20M needs to be worked until no more QSO's by any rare entity.

Next year will be 50 as a licensed ham. I sure have seen a lot of changes in the hobby since 1965.

73 Tony N5UD MOBILE in Texas
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 09, 2014, 02:04:38 PM
I was checking clublog stats the other day. Some folks have QSO's with FT4 on every band and mode.
Thanks ARRL for the Challenge. Sadly this is done on every DXped by the same folks. Even the same DXCC. Why ?

That sure knocks out little pistols looking for ATNO.

It is called a Challenge for a reason. Why is it sad? Because you are unable to compete? I am hardly a Big Gun but I enjoy competing in the Bingo Slot Card Competition. By doing so, it improves my Dxing skills and encourages me to constantly improve my station to the best of my ability and mean$.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K9IUQ on November 09, 2014, 02:19:32 PM
What's nice about RTTY is that virtually every radio made has direct FSK keying with no TX sound card needed, and thus no "levels" problem. AFSK, PSK and all the other modes require careful attention toward your transmitted audio quality or else distortion becomes a major problem.

I suspect few (especially Newbie) hams realize the advantage of using FSK. I even had a HRD logger Author ask me why I wanted to use FSK when AFSK was just as good. This was before HRD supported FSK.

Several times I have posted on eham "Real Hams use FSK" in a conversation. I always get flamed and told AFSK is just as good. NOT.

FSK gives the advantages you just listed and more. Like a better SNR on FSK and sharper filtering. Also anyone owning a a Late Model Icom radio knows how effective their Twin Peak Filtering can be. Available only in the FSK mode.

Yeah, interfacing FSK requires more effort than AFSK but -- -Yep, Real Hams use FSK   ;)

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 09, 2014, 03:22:11 PM
Even AFSK beats PSK.  RTTY decode is more forgiving than PSK.  In a pile that some would be huge.  FM capture what ll more often find someone.  The shift isn't all bad.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 09, 2014, 03:28:14 PM
One way I gauge these things is by the size of the expedition.

Dxpedition teams may well be limited on their size (number of ops) via the permit process used to gain access to a particular location. FT4TA may have had that issue.

Some teams even face obstacles of where antennas may be placed, as in the ZL9 Campbell Island DXpedition.

Many things, that we don't know, or are not disclosed, may handicap a dxpedition team's effort.

It would have been great to have 10-12 station capability for such a rare entity (FR/T), but that is not the way it is. So we deal with what we are given and be grateful for that.

All true. DXpeditions come in many sizes.  But as far as our chances go, the total Q count remains a good if rough predictor of our success rate.  At 70k As, many of us will be shut out.  Our expectations should follow the guessed or actual rate
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB3LIX on November 09, 2014, 04:12:28 PM
Hey you all, the 10 year old NAZI here...

I tried for Tromelin for a few hours on friday night
when the pile was something like 25+ kc up.
Gave up after a while as the ops rate was dismal.
Wasn't worth the effort.

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 09, 2014, 04:14:32 PM

Wasn't worth the effort.


I am sure some other deserving DXer is grateful that you quit and cleared the way for them.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 09, 2014, 05:08:25 PM
I was checking clublog stats the other day. Some folks have QSO's with FT4 on every band and mode.
Thanks ARRL for the Challenge. Sadly this is done on every DXped by the same folks. Even the same DXCC. Why ?

That sure knocks out little pistols looking for ATNO.

It is called a Challenge for a reason. Why is it sad? Because you are unable to compete? I am hardly a Big Gun but I enjoy competing in the Bingo Slot Card Competition. By doing so, it improves my Dxing skills and encourages me to constantly improve my station to the best of my ability and mean$.

I sort-of agree with you, Stan. I love the DXCC Challenge and I enjoy the competition for bands and modes with any DXpedition or contest. But where things start to break down is the fight for band-mode slots. I'm guilty as charged here, too, and will continue to try for these so long as the DXpedition leaders condone it or don't specifically denounce the practice.

I think it's this quest for 40,000 or more DXers to make 20 or more QSOs (to fill in all the greenie slots) that is at the root of many of today's DX pileup problems. Doing away with the Clublog checkboxes for band-slots altogether during ultra-rare entity or IOTA activations would be a good start. Then the next tactic should be to specifically and clearly state that one QSO per band, one QSO per mode is all that will be considered acceptable by the team. No dupes once log info is released publicly on the check site. Put it in the mission statement, have it properly translated into a dozen major languages, have it as the .sig file for all DXpedition news releases, log check pages, etc. And enforce it.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 09, 2014, 05:37:01 PM
it's OVER.   QRT at 0130Z.  THANKS guys!!  WELL DONE!

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 09, 2014, 05:44:06 PM
Then the next tactic should be to specifically and clearly state that one QSO per band, one QSO per mode is all that will be considered acceptable by the team. No dupes once log info is released publicly on the check site. Put it in the mission statement, have it properly translated into a dozen major languages, have it as the .sig file for all DXpedition news releases, log check pages, etc. And enforce it.

Great in theory, in practice you'd have to actually allow a dupe or three because of busted calls etc !
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 09, 2014, 05:48:25 PM
Pete,

If I interpreted your views correctly, as long as your competitors have access to band-mode slots you also want to have access to band-mode slots.  It seems to me that you don't want to be 'left out' if your competitors have twenty slots and you only have eight.  So the only way you will stop hunting for slots is for the dxpedition to restrict slot hunting.

As I stated in another thread the level of competition in a pileup is greater than ever.  And this increased competition is bringing out the worst of the worst behaviors.  Not to mention a lot of smaller stations are left out of an opportunity to make an ATNO on a band like 20m.  If there are 2,000 stations who made three contacts each on 20m, that's 4,000 contacts that could go to someone else as ATNOs.  So I ask the question here, is competition a good thing for DX'ing?  Is it good to have every dxpedition turn into a big dawg contest?

Btw, I don't expect Clublog will change anything.  Their name says it all!

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 09, 2014, 05:59:53 PM
Only 15,000 uniques ? That seems awfully low for a big operation.


On a percentage basis, its slightly better than FT5ZM.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 09, 2014, 06:04:09 PM
Only 15,000 uniques ? That seems awfully low for a big operation.


On a percentage basis, its slightly better than FT5ZM.

Exactly. So, in a perfect world, if everyone wanting a Q got one how many would that be? How many active DXers are there in total, big guns, QRPers and all in between ?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WW3QB on November 09, 2014, 06:11:03 PM
Only 15,000 uniques ? That seems awfully low for a big operation.


On a percentage basis, its slightly better than FT5ZM.

Exactly. So, in a perfect world, if everyone wanting a Q got one how many would that be? How many active DXers are there in total, big guns, QRPers and all in between ?


The best and biggest DXpeditions that operate long enough to be begging get 40,000 uniques.
I did not work FT4TA, but did work FT5ZM.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 09, 2014, 06:14:22 PM
Contacts without an award "point" seem to me the bane of DXing.  Even given that some don't care for these awards, there is no reason the rest of us should cooperate with the 27 slot mentality.

If DXer X wants 27 band slots for his or her private satisfaction, that's one thing.  No cure for that.  But take out the bragging rights -- if an X with 27 band slots bragging yields a "so what" or even a derogatory remark or two, maybe behavior changes.

It takes little skill to jam a frequency, so its not clear its in everyone's interest to condone this behavior.  A minority of the disgruntled can yield a boatload of bad behaviour.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5MOA on November 09, 2014, 06:19:48 PM
So, in a perfect world, if everyone wanting a Q got one how many would that be? How many active DXers are there in total, big guns, QRPers and all in between ?

I doubt anyone really knows.

Looking at Club Log's "Uniques League" listing:

               QSOS       UNIQUE         DAYS      OPS

T32C       213,022     48,966          30           38
D68C       168,591    45,274           20           32
HK0NA     195,331    43,159           27           -


More than 15,000 and less than 50,000 seem like a reasonable guess?

 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 09, 2014, 06:23:08 PM
Only 15,000 uniques ? That seems awfully low for a big operation.


On a percentage basis, its slightly better than FT5ZM.

Exactly. So, in a perfect world, if everyone wanting a Q got one how many would that be? How many active DXers are there in total, big guns, QRPers and all in between ?


The best and biggest DXpeditions that operate long enough to be begging get 40,000 uniques.
I did not work FT4TA, but did work FT5ZM.

Agreed.  In addition since the new call rate seems fairly constant whether they beg or not, it seems likely that such a rate would be realistic to expect given that sponsor-driven DXpeditions will not optimized only for ATNOS only.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KA5NDH on November 09, 2014, 06:29:43 PM
As one of the guys running 100 watts into a dipole it would be nice to get one contact while everyone is getting their bandfills. However, I am not complaining, it is what it is. I got a question on cw ops during these expeditions. I am new to the DX game so would like some info. Last night I finally found FT4TA on 20m cw. He was sending faster than I could copy but I found him cause I could hear the 5nn 5nn after every contact. Just to see what the speed was I turned on the computer to decode the cw and my program said he was sending at 35 wpm. I use a straight key and get no where near 35 wpm in my qsos. I really don't expect them to slow down for me but even if I could copy at 35 wpm, no way I am sending that fast on my key. My question, is there a minimum speed I should be expected to send my callsign in order to be not ignored? Thanks
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 09, 2014, 07:20:03 PM
... dupe ... server hicupped.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 09, 2014, 07:31:33 PM
Pete,

If I interpreted your views correctly, as long as your competitors have access to band-mode slots you also want to have access to band-mode slots.  It seems to me that you don't want to be 'left out' if your competitors have twenty slots and you only have eight.  So the only way you will stop hunting for slots is for the dxpedition to restrict slot hunting.

Pretty well, yeah. I love the hunt and if the DXpedition is condoning the slot hunt I'll be in the thick of things and a willing competitor with my friends, fellow club members and some of the calls I recognize from here on eHam. I would absolutely play it differently with P5 (unless they manage to get a 30-day/30-member team and put together a DXpedition for the ages), and ditto for any operation that asks people not to hunt slots or not make more than x bands or y modes. I'll gladly respect DXpeditions organizers' wishes. I'm actually hoping Heard does this next year, too. It's just too rare.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W1VT on November 09, 2014, 07:33:57 PM
As one of the guys running 100 watts into a dipole it would be nice to get one contact while everyone is getting their bandfills. However, I am not complaining, it is what it is. I got a question on cw ops during these expeditions. I am new to the DX game so would like some info. Last night I finally found FT4TA on 20m cw. He was sending faster than I could copy but I found him cause I could hear the 5nn 5nn after every contact. Just to see what the speed was I turned on the computer to decode the cw and my program said he was sending at 35 wpm. I use a straight key and get no where near 35 wpm in my qsos. I really don't expect them to slow down for me but even if I could copy at 35 wpm, no way I am sending that fast on my key. My question, is there a minimum speed I should be expected to send my callsign in order to be not ignored? Thanks

If possible, listen to the stations he comes back to to estimate the best sending speeds.  Alternately, send your call just once.  If he is always in the middle of a QSO by the time you finish, it is likely that he is looking for faster stations.  

Zack W1VT
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 09, 2014, 07:36:47 PM
My question, is there a minimum speed I should be expected to send my callsign in order to be not ignored? Thanks

As a new CW op you should work on copying your own callsign up to 35wpm.  35wpm is the minimum because if you can't copy your own callsign then you won't know if he comes back to you.  Once you have mastered your own callsign then start working on copying all letters/numbers at up to 15wpm.  With this level of skill you could start working dxpeditions.  As for sending there are several options 1) record your signal report in a memory keyer, or 2) manually send your exchange on a CW paddle.  I believe most people prefer option 1.  I take the road less traveled of option 2.  This is a matter of personal preference.  As for sending your call the preferred option is to record your call on the memory keyer.  You could send your call at any speed you wish (preferably a minimum of 20wpm unless you are working on the low bands).

I have the strangest CW preference.  I send my call only at 20wpm no matter how fast the Op is sending.  There's no rule that says I have to match his speed.  And as for the exchange I only use a CW paddle at 20wpm.  I don't have anything recorded on my memory keyer other than my own callsign.  It's not difficult to send a short exchange using a CW paddle and to me it's a lot more fun.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AA6YQ on November 09, 2014, 07:52:25 PM
My question, is there a minimum speed I should be expected to send my callsign in order to be not ignored? Thanks

I have the strangest CW preference.  I send my call only at 20wpm no matter how fast the Op is sending.  There's no rule that says I have to match his speed.  

True.  However, if the DX op preferentially calls complete callsigns, then at 35 wpm your complete callsign is more likely to be heard through a "gap" in the transmissions of other callers than at 20 wpm. Sending at too high a speed can risk poor intelligibility, so there's a sweet spot.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD6KVL on November 09, 2014, 07:57:40 PM
I heard one of the final pileups on 20 ssb today and a guy giving w2nq or w2qn I can't remember trouble for calling in the pile up.  I looked the guy up and sure enough, he was in the log on 20 ssb and calling!  I'd figure these folks don't need insurance contacts like we did before online logs.  The w2 had a big signal, don't know why he'd call, seems greedy, and the guy calling him out obliterated the dx, but I kinda agreed with him, if your in the log in that slot, why are you calling in one of the last pileups?  Talk about lack of ham spirit!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AA6YQ on November 09, 2014, 07:59:01 PM
Only 15,000 uniques ? That seems awfully low for a big operation.


On a percentage basis, its slightly better than FT5ZM.

Exactly. So, in a perfect world, if everyone wanting a Q got one how many would that be? How many active DXers are there in total, big guns, QRPers and all in between ?

See Michael G7VJR's How many DXers are there in the world? (http://g7vjr.org/2013/04/how-many-dxers-are-there-in-the-world/).

Several of us have been working to encourage DXpeditions to work more unique stations (http://www.cassaward.com/). Here are the current standings for 2014 (http://www.clublog.org/cassaward.php)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W9OY on November 09, 2014, 08:35:16 PM
Why are you using a strait key?  Working DX is like dancing or playing an instrument in a band.  You need to match tempo and rhythm or you will simply be stepped on.  The point is to put yourself in the DX's receiver on the frequency to which he is listening and at the instant he is listening with a signal that flows directly into his conscientiousness.  He is trying to work as many people successfully in an hour as he can given conditions, and has no time and likely no interest to play antique QSO with somebody going 10 wpm on a strait key.  DXers tend to run at 30 +- wpm because it gives them a good rate of successful QSO's.  If the other station also is running in that ball park then that yields about the most efficient QSO.  If you do things to deliberately impede your coherence from flowing into his brain don't expect to be a very successful DXer.  You can get a $20 keyer with a memory, learn to use it and easily participate in the DX dance.  I'm betting some joker told you the BEST WAY to learn CW is on a strait key.  That's the worst way. 

73  W9OY
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5UD on November 09, 2014, 08:37:13 PM
If guys need the competition, and trying to meet that in every DXped. Why not just work the contests that are around every weekend ? Contests .... competition.

What was wrong with endorsement stickers for each band instead of the current Challenge ? This Challenge has generated a lot of bad manners.

My real complaint is the same big stations working every DXped, in every band slot, every time a new DXped shows up from the same place.  

For who ever complained about not being a big gun. I grew out of that years ago. My #1 plaque shows 1994, but my letter is dated 1992. Want me send you a copy ? Some how it got the wrong plate on it.

Now for my powerhouse mobile station. Yeah i miss some. I can't fill every band slot. But I can work DX.

Which when I started. DXCC meant the ability to work DX. Not be there firstest with mostest to take a line from a famous general. Contests fill that desire.  
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KA5NDH on November 09, 2014, 08:54:05 PM
  I'm betting some joker told you the BEST WAY to learn CW is on a strait key.  That's the worst way. 


No, not really. Said I was new to messing with DX not to CW. Learned CW back in 1982 on my HW-101, been a casual cw guy ever since. Currently on my second radio an Icom751 (no keyer) that I got back in 1987. Just bought a pico keyer to play with. In the past I have just stayed away from all the pile ups as I was not interested. Lately, I have been looking to expand my experiences.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO2C on November 09, 2014, 09:18:45 PM
If guys need the competition, and trying to meet that in every DXped. Why not just work the contests that are around every weekend ? Contests .... competition.

What was wrong with endorsement stickers for each band instead of the current Challenge ? This Challenge has generated a lot of bad manners.

My real complaint is the same big stations working every DXped, in every band slot, every time a new DXped shows up from the same place.  

For who ever complained about not being a big gun. I grew out of that years ago. My #1 plaque shows 1994, but my letter is dated 1992. Want me send you a copy ? Some how it got the wrong plate on it.

Now for my powerhouse mobile station. Yeah i miss some. I can't fill every band slot. But I can work DX.

Which when I started. DXCC meant the ability to work DX. Not be there firstest with mostest to take a line from a famous general. Contests fill that desire.  

I agree with David. I think the ARRL has done the DX community a disservice with challenges and the numbering of band fills. Similarly,  I've been frustrated with the W1AW/__  stations who often seem to operate at or very near some of the published frequencies of DXpeditions.

This is the reason I don't--and won't--donate to a DXpedition beforehand.  I'm not willing to help fund someone's leader board - Challenge - look how awesome I am on Clublog-nonsense. I make my donations when I'm filling out the OQRS  online form.

With Navassa  in the near future,  I can only hope that more DXpedition teams, as well as individual DXers adopt the "one and done" philosophy.

73,
Ray, WO2C
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 09, 2014, 09:47:11 PM
Before we continue the discussions on 'competition' we need to be careful on how we use the term 'challenge'.  The DXCC 'challenge' is an award based on the number of bands each entity is worked, regardless of mode.  Some people also refer Clublog 'slot' hunting as a 'challenge' which is entirely different from the DXCC challenge awards.  In Clublog a DX'er could make three contacts on 20m on three different modes.  In clublog this counts as three 'greenies' but for DXCC challenge it only counts as one point.  It is clear that greenie hunting in Clublog serves no purpose for awards once a contact is made for each band.  Greenie hunting is just a different form of a contest.  I don't think anyone will dispute that.

While the DXCC challenge does increase the size of the pileup it doesn't compare to greenie hunting.  The DXCC challenge point hunter is after one QSO per band.  The greenie hunter is after three QSOs per band.  While one may perceive any type of DX 'hunting' is DX hogging, one type of 'hunting' serves a purpose for an award while the other type doesn't.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K7ZA on November 09, 2014, 09:52:16 PM
You people realize that working FT4TA on say 10m CW is all that is required for 10m on DX Challenge. Additional QSOs on 10 SSB or 10 RTTY add nothing
to your DX Challenge count.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K7ZA on November 09, 2014, 09:54:52 PM
To W6GX, Well said, we must have posted at the same time. Also Jonathan here! K7ZA
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 09, 2014, 10:01:27 PM
To W6GX, Well said, we must have posted at the same time. Also Jonathan here! K7ZA

Thanks.  Welcome to the forum!

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 09, 2014, 10:09:04 PM
My question, is there a minimum speed I should be expected to send my callsign in order to be not ignored? Thanks

I have the strangest CW preference.  I send my call only at 20wpm no matter how fast the Op is sending.  There's no rule that says I have to match his speed.  
True.  However, if the DX op preferentially calls complete callsigns, then at 35 wpm your complete callsign is more likely to be heard through a "gap" in the transmissions of other callers than at 20 wpm. Sending at too high a speed can risk poor intelligibility, so there's a sweet spot.

I find that about 30-32 WPM seems to be the sweet spot for most decent CW operators in DXpedition pileups. When there's a speed demon at the key I'll ramp up to about 36 or even 38 WPM. Conversely if I'm after a Marathon point or some interesting location to work for fun I'll probably drop down to about 20-25 WPM. Likewise, if any op is unable to copy my full call correctly at 30+ I'll drop it down, send manually and increase the space between characters.

In DX pileups I'd say I use WinWarbler/WinKey to do the sending about 75% of the time and my Vibroplex paddles for the rest. In contests I'm 100% keyboard CW via N1MM+. For normal CW QSOs I'm almost 100% hand-keyed. I gave up using a straight key the instant I got licensed. I practiced on a Brass SpeedRacer key and bought my Vibroplex paddles shortly thereafter. Now I'm saving up for a Begali Sculpture.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 09, 2014, 10:19:08 PM
My question, is there a minimum speed I should be expected to send my callsign in order to be not ignored? Thanks

I have the strangest CW preference.  I send my call only at 20wpm no matter how fast the Op is sending.  There's no rule that says I have to match his speed.  

True.  However, if the DX op preferentially calls complete callsigns, then at 35 wpm your complete callsign is more likely to be heard through a "gap" in the transmissions of other callers than at 20 wpm. Sending at too high a speed can risk poor intelligibility, so there's a sweet spot.

I don't recall having to go above 22 very often even for the rarest ones.  18 to 20 will get darned near anything.  There are many high speed guys out there, but nowhere near enough to fill out an entire DXpedition.

If you can send intelligibly at even 20, join the fray.

As long as you can reliably decode your own call (this is a must) you can participate without being a nuisance.  Even without real 35 wpm skills, you can teach yourself that.

Warm up to this learned skill with strong signals from not so rare but fast ops.  You may not get 'em all but you will get most.

If you find yourself constantly sending at the wrong times, then back off until the winners get to a speed you can handle.  It means the winners are all faster for now.  For that period, it is futile but such periods in my experience do not last forever.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 09, 2014, 10:22:17 PM
My call is short so even at 20wpm it's about the same length as someone else' call at 25wpm :P  Plus a slower speed makes me 'stand out' among the hoard of callers :)  To each and his own.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 09, 2014, 10:26:42 PM
Warm up to this learned skill with strong signals from not so rare but fast ops.  You may not get 'em all but you will get most.

I used W1AW/x as practice especially on the low bands.  It's similar to working a dxpedition except the pileups are smaller and the signals are stronger.  I tried not to pick a DX who are likely to start a CW ragchew :D

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on November 10, 2014, 06:04:22 AM
I am with Jonathan.  I set my keyer speed to 20 to 22 wpm and maybe 18 wpm on 160m and 80m where the noise is high.


Quote
I use a straight key and get no where near 35 wpm in my qsos

Goodness me your arm must ache after an hour of straight key sending. I use a Bencher iambic keyer plugged into electronic keyer which also has a keyboard plugged in.    I hit F1 and it sends my call  N1UK and F2  which sends N1UK 5nn tu


Do yourself a a big favour and get some sort of electronic keyer and put that straight keyer in the museum.

Sorry that you didn't work FT4 but to get things in perspective it took me an hour on 20m cw with 1400 watts and a 3 element beam at 87 feet. Running 100 watts to a wire is probably not going to get you a contact with such rare DX unless you are very skilful and lucky.


73 Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 10, 2014, 06:09:20 AM
KD6KDL,

That was John W2NQ - his is - how can I say this - you know when you say - "he has a screw lose"? - well - he lost all his screws.

He's a big time DX cop also.

On the low bands I'll set my CW slower but elsewhere I'll match the DX op and his rhythm.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 10, 2014, 06:32:39 AM
My question, is there a minimum speed I should be expected to send my callsign in order to be not ignored?

While it might be true that the guy at FT4TA was sending at 35 wpm (I bet it was closer to 30, I have not heard them sending 35), I think very few of the guys CALLING him were sending at 35 wpm. I usually call at about 25 wpm. If the DX is loud and fast sometimes I throw my call in at 40 wpm and I get the contact. As someone else here said, your signal has to somehow stand out from the others. Maybe SLOW stands out, maybe FAST stands out. (Usually it is LOUD that stands out or maybe being 100 Hz higher in pitch stands out, or ...).

You have to recognize your call CORRECTLY, if he sends "KA5NBH 5NN" don' just send "R R 5NN TU". You should recognize ALL the busted permutations of your callsign!

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N3QE on November 10, 2014, 06:43:08 AM
If you find yourself constantly sending at the wrong times

I strongly believe that contesting is a great way to work up the skillset of "how to send at the right time".

At same time the DXpeditioner has to help the pileup by making it obvious, when the "right time" is. I have heard some amazing driving rhythms from contesters and DX'ers over the years.

And have also heard some astoundingly poor timing on both sides too!!!! This is mostly the guys who just keep sending their call all the time no matter what, but there are more limited examples too. Just the other night there was a loud OK station on 160M OK/OM contest that a W2 was trying to work. The OK station would send the W2's callsign, 599, and the exchange (3 character OK/OM district). But every single time the W2 would start sending after or during the 5NN, and the OK wasn't hearing him because he was still transmitting. Just wrong. They did this for dozens of cycles, seemed like an eternity, lather rinse repeat, and I'm not sure the W2 ever got in the OK's log. I could hear both sides just fine, it was astounding to listen to such repeatedly poor form.

Tim.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ3N on November 10, 2014, 06:54:51 AM

Wasn't worth the effort.


I am sure some other deserving DXer is grateful that you quit and cleared the way for them.

Just means more for me. From Club Log:

FT4TA   TROMELIN ISLAND   2014-11-07 13:36:00   12M Data
FT4TA   TROMELIN ISLAND   2014-11-05 13:21:00   10M Phone
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7WQ on November 10, 2014, 07:10:58 AM
KD6KDL,

That was John W2NQ - his is - how can I say this - you know when you say - "he has a screw lose"? - well - he lost all his screws.

He's a big time DX cop also.

On the low bands I'll set my CW slower but elsewhere I'll match the DX op and his rhythm.
  Very  tactfully put.  I was gonna say a stone nut.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 10, 2014, 08:19:15 AM
Learn to also use QSK, at least semi-breakin, then you can hear when DX station starts transmitting again so then stop sending and start looking for the lucky guy working him!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD8MJR on November 10, 2014, 09:30:20 AM
Interesting observation when I look at the FT4 stats.  Even though on the last 2 days they asked for only people who needed ATNOs and even thought the bands where just as full of people calling, their Q rate dropped off quiet a bit!  Personally I just don't think this was a dxpedition that the little pistol could work unless he got the propagation time just right and had a huge bit of luck.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KD6KVL on November 10, 2014, 09:38:57 AM
I worked him with a hex beam on cw, but i had about 30 hours invested in tuning for him every day before and after work, and about an hour in the cw pileup once i could hear him.
Frank KG6N
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 10, 2014, 09:40:28 AM
Interesting observation when I look at the FT4 stats.  Even though on the last 2 days they asked for only people who needed ATNOs and even thought the bands where just as full of people calling, their Q rate dropped off quiet a bit!  Personally I just don't think this was a dxpedition that the little pistol could work unless he got the propagation time just right and had a huge bit of luck.

FYI.  The current log in Clublog doesn't have the QSOs from the last two days.   Their operation ended at 0130z 11-10-14.

Q rate and unique calls are always a tradeoff especially towards the end of the dxpedition.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4OGW on November 10, 2014, 09:50:16 AM
Another thing that can help in breaking pileups is to be active in contests.

Why? Most dxpeditions are using computer logging now. In most programs there is a list of suggested calls that comes up when a partial call is typed in ("supercheck partial" http://www.supercheckpartial.com/). These lists are compiled from contest logs. The op may or may not be using this or looking at the suggestions but having your call in the database is an advantage.

Tor
N4OGW
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2NL on November 10, 2014, 10:11:14 AM
I can confirm what Tor says - I believe most of the DXpeditions are using some sort of Super Check Partial (SCP) file.  I would guess that a good percentage of DXers are already in this file, if you have worked even a handful of DX during CQWW DX.  When I first used NH2T on Guam - it took a while.  Now that I have changed that call to WH7AA - OMG it's bad.  W5ZAA, WS7AA, etc.  I can't get into the SCP soon enough.

To reiterate what I think Pete said - it would be great to see Clublog have a way to select two different ways of listing how someone is in the log.  For the big T32C type DXpeditions looking to maximize QSOs - allow the old "leaderboard" so guys can see every band/mode "greenie".  For the FT4FA sized DXpedition, perhaps show one marker for each band, and a separate line for the modes.  This way, someone very active on 160-10m could potentially see all green with only 9 QSOs, one for each band with a mix of RTTY, CW, and SSB.

I think FT4FA did a fantastic job given the limitations.  The ops seemed to be very good, given sometimes challenging QRM.  I was blown away when I heard them asking for OC on the 1st or 2nd day.  There were probably a half dozen KH6 stations calling; unfortunately none got through because there were too many NA stations who simply would not shut up (it is not an EU phenomenon only).

I don't think that starting on the low bands early is necessarily a bad thing.  Look at the AA7JV/HA7RY DXpeditions - they had a Topband focus and just about everyone was happy by the time the DXpedition was over.  Low band propagation is such an uncertainty, it makes sense to exploit good conditions if they are there early, when conditions may be much worse later in the expedition.

I believe that it is good to start RTTY early, but limit the number of bands at first.  If you have 1 RTTY station, don't band hop all over giving the big guns another worthless "greenie".  Stick to 20, 17, and 30m.  Same with 75M - I doubt many got an ATNO with a single QSO on this band mode.

Overall, fantastic job!
-KH6/N2NL
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 10, 2014, 10:31:39 AM
Overall, fantastic job!

I don't know if I'd call it fantastic, but it was certainly a decent showing that put a fair dent in a top-10 entity. "Fantastic" DXpeditions to top-10 entities don't take up 25-30 kHz on each band, and they focus on getting as many uniques into the log as they can. I would call it a qualified success, and I certainly have more reason than most to be falling-over grateful for their putting my call in the log, and even moreso for uploading their logs to LoTW for all. That was magnificent, and I'm beyond grateful to the team for that sweet touch.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 10, 2014, 10:41:45 AM
The log is updated.  My Hail Mary 80 meter QSO is in there.  Amazing!  Good luck to all on your final check.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KR4BD on November 10, 2014, 10:42:02 AM
Just noticed that the FT4TA on-line log has been updated!  I got ONE good Q on 15 SSB.  Wow.  I had three others that were broken QSOs by QRM and thought I would never get a valid exchange.  I am truly thankful to the DX gods that ONE QSO DID get through for the ATNO for me.

Tom, KR4BD
Lexington, KY
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 10, 2014, 10:45:09 AM
To reiterate what I think Pete said - it would be great to see Clublog have a way to select two different ways of listing how someone is in the log.

Why not just restrict the log checks to those with an account with Clublog (i.e. DX'er A cannot see the contacts of DX'er B)?  What reason is there to check on another person's log other than to follow one's competition?  Like I stated earlier Clublog will not put these log check restrictions on because the entire website was built to promote competition.

I think I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of becoming a greenie hunter.  After all busting a 25kc wide pileup is the most fun one could have with his clothes on.  Bring K1N on!

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on November 10, 2014, 11:09:16 AM
Gene's 30m & 80m Qs show GREEN  ;D ;D :D


Total QSOs: 71335
Unique Calls: 18434   so 26% uniques, pretty good going.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on November 10, 2014, 11:22:44 AM
YES!!  All three of my Qs are there ;D!  That makes #320, and #97 in 80M band.

(One of these days I will get 80M DXCC ::))

Congrats to all who made it through!

73, Gene AF3Y
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N2NL on November 10, 2014, 11:49:24 AM
I was able to work them from here twice (two bands, one CW, one SSB as WH7AA) from an antenna restricted QTH on the opposite side of the planet - I would say "fantastic" that I even had a shot through NA and EU.

I used to be a Greenie hunter myself but since spending the last four years in a location where any DX outside of the Pacific Rim is difficult (at best) to work, I am starting to find more pride in working a DXpedition on as many bands and modes as possible, in as few a QSOs as possible (meaning - 9 QSOs would be ideal for 160-10, all three modes).

VU4CB is actively looking to hand out a rare IOTA to as many unique callers as possible.  I can hear them reasonably well from Hawaii at my local sunrise and sunset.  Here is the problem:  At my sunrise, they are working a snarling EU pileup.  In the evening, they are asking for NA only.  I've spent considerable time trying to work them, but it appears that it will be hopeless at least until later this month.  To their credit, they have been limiting their operating to a few bands, but how many guys have worked them multiple times just for the sake of breaking a pileup?  I suppose the counter argument is "I invested my time in building a loud station and you get to snipe at DX that is rare for me" but in this case they are begging for people to only work them ONCE.  But, alas, for me with the WH7AA call sign, a VU4 is just as rare as an EA because I still need both from here :)  I guess this is a bonus of moving from DX country to DX country.



Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB3LIX on November 10, 2014, 12:40:56 PM

Wasn't worth the effort.


I am sure some other deserving DXer is grateful that you quit and cleared the way for them.

Just means more for me. From Club Log:

FT4TA   TROMELIN ISLAND   2014-11-07 13:36:00   12M Data
FT4TA   TROMELIN ISLAND   2014-11-05 13:21:00   10M Phone

Glad to hear you got thru Jim.

Seems like things are changing for me.
I just don't seem to want to sit and fight for a contact.

That has carried over to contests too.
I did VERY little in CW Sweeps,
and very little in the WAE-RTTY last weekend.

WAE-RTTY is one of my favorite contests. I like the
QTC feature and just couldn't be bothered.

Maybe it is time for a break.

I HAVE to get back for Navassa, because it could be YEARS before they become active again.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 10, 2014, 12:50:27 PM
I have 8 with the guys, one for each band except 15m and 1 for RTTY.  9 should all that anyone needs.  I used to hunt greenies but not anymore, It just takes away from someone who needs it for ANTO.

I feel that DXpeditions should take the 9 QSO stance, and clublog should forever remove the leaderboard for starters.  Climbing off the soapbox now.  ;D

Congrats on all who made it thru!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7NUW on November 10, 2014, 01:02:00 PM
Not a morning person, but I got up at 0-dark-30 on November 8 and about 1500Z (0700 PST) they were true 579 on 40 meters. Worked them with a dipole and 500 watts after about 20 calls -- CW. Almost certain it was long path given that I have close and high terrain to the north, but down hill, and except for Antarctica, only seawater in the path. They were at or below the noise floor at all other times when I was looking for them. This small-gun station is mighty pleased to see his call sign in the log! An ATNO that I had little hope of waiting for the next effort at FT4.

I am presuming they set their 4-square to aim south.

Best to all, Ken  W7NUW
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: NM6V on November 10, 2014, 01:14:59 PM
Yes it was LP
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N4CR on November 10, 2014, 08:31:02 PM
I would absolutely play it differently with P5 (unless they manage to get a 30-day/30-member team and put together a DXpedition for the ages), and ditto for any operation that asks people not to hunt slots or not make more than x bands or y modes. I'll gladly respect DXpeditions organizers' wishes. I'm actually hoping Heard does this next year, too. It's just too rare.

Any DXpedition could just tell everyone from the start that they will only QSL the first two contacts.

Problem solved.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE8EV on November 10, 2014, 09:18:35 PM
I would absolutely play it differently with P5 (unless they manage to get a 30-day/30-member team and put together a DXpedition for the ages), and ditto for any operation that asks people not to hunt slots or not make more than x bands or y modes. I'll gladly respect DXpeditions organizers' wishes. I'm actually hoping Heard does this next year, too. It's just too rare.

Any DXpedition could just tell everyone from the start that they will only QSL the first two contacts.

Problem solved.

I think there are a couple of misconceptions we're having about the "average DXer", ie; the "other guys" in the pileups. 

The first misconception is that they are working the DX for a reason.  A challenge slot, a greenie, whatever.  I don't think this is the case.  I think most guys are just trying to work the DX because they are there.  No doubt there are plenty of serious guys collecting "stuff" but for the most part its probably just guys working the DX for the fun of it (this is supposed to be fun after all).

The second misconception is that they are like "us".  Plugged into the "DX scene", active on DX forums, following events, and reading the expedition web sites.  Truth be told I really don't think most guys pay that much attention.  The DX is just whatever shows up on DX Summit and if they can hear it they'll probably have a shot at working it. So if a big expedition had said in advance "We only want one contact per band" (or one per mode or whatever) chances are most wouldn't be aware anyways.

Even though I had always kept track of what I worked and what I needed, I never really paid much attention to following the "DX news" until recently. 

73
John VE8EV
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 10, 2014, 09:35:26 PM
I doubt if the casual DXer plays in pileups like FT4.  More troublesome are those that worked it 30 years ago AND hunt greenies just because they can.

Someone like that will be well-informed.

So will the vast majority of small stations who actually persist for even one win.

The rest will give up and go for easier prey, doubly so as competition outside the rare one is less.

I think the uninformed will self-winnow.  Anyone going for a lot of slots knows what they are doing.

I don't begrudge someone the thrill of Tromlein in 2014 at least once no matter what they have in the bag.

But some of this is just piggy and we all know it.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 10, 2014, 11:02:17 PM
No doubt there are plenty of serious guys collecting "stuff" but for the most part its probably just guys working the DX for the fun of it (this is supposed to be fun after all).

Yup.  I have a buddy in CA who has #1 honor roll.  Yet he's more radioactive than I am.  He broke the pile on E30FB for bragging rights.  And he worked FT4TA just for fun.  Check out the FT4TA log on W1JR.  He probably doesn't need any of the contacts for award purposes.  I'm beginning to warm up to the idea that this is just a hobby.  So anyone can make as many contacts for any reason as he wishes.  Of course the little guys will feel that this is DX hogging.

The second misconception is that they are like "us".  Plugged into the "DX scene", active on DX forums, following events, and reading the expedition web sites.  Truth be told I really don't think most guys pay that much attention.

Yup.  I have a local buddy who doesn't follow any dxpedition news.  Yet he works every dxpedition when he's not away.  I have to 'feed' him with dxpedition news.  He doesn't care where the DX is as long as he has the correct beam heading :D

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 10, 2014, 11:18:02 PM
I think we have to distinguish between reading the Daily DX and being well-informed.

Even if one rests on his or her HR laurels, it would take about 5 seconds to catch up after the pileups start.

All these expeditions now have easy to find websites too.

Again, I don't begrudge a few "because I want to" to anyone.  And bandfills are worthy too.

Beyond that looks just...piggy and what might be called bad form, especially to the extent it motivates bad behaviour and less fun for all.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 11, 2014, 06:45:02 AM
At the end of the day the whole thing seems simple to me.  Have respect for the team and for other ops.  If the DX is asking to stand down for ATNOs, then stand down.  If the DX has the leaderboard up CQing from DC to daylight, then greenie yourself to your heart's content.

The only thing that bothers me is that if you're going to fill band slots, at least have the decency to be an upfront donor and not one of these a$$clowns that works 27 slots and then sends for a minimum donation buro card after the trip.  Buy a ticket in advance and share the risk.  I can certainly understand why small ops refuse to donate upfront to subsidize that behavior.  DX funding is like love - it must have hope for nourishment.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 11, 2014, 07:34:54 AM
I did a rough calculation of the total donations made to FT4TA as of this morning.  The total is $112,000.  This is how it broke down:

Individuals $43,000
Clubs and organizations $69,000

There were a total of 864 individual donors and 69 club/organization donors.

I think the result showed that an early LoTW upload didn't hurt them financially.  The ham spirit is alive and well.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 11, 2014, 08:00:10 AM
I did a rough calculation of the total donations made to FT4TA as of this morning.  The total is $112,000.  This is how it broke down:

Individuals $43,000
Clubs and organizations $69,000

There were a total of 864 individual donors and 69 club/organization donors.

I think the result showed that an early LoTW upload didn't hurt them financially.  The ham spirit is alive and well.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Good numbers and quick question.

$43,000 / 864 individuals is ~$50.00 donation per head.  Pretty good average per upfront donor.  Kudos.
$43,000 / 18,422 uniques in the log is $2.33 donated upfront per unique worked.  Yuck.

For a DXped like FT4TA, how much back ended donation funding do you think they will yet receive from individuals?  Since lots of the back-ended funding I would think would be QSL request based, I'd argue that the early LOTW upload might hurt them.  How much, don't know.  Gotta go shovel snow. 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K3STX on November 11, 2014, 08:03:19 AM
I'd bet that most people will want a card and will pony-up a $3 donation.

paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 11, 2014, 08:08:08 AM
For a DXped like FT4TA, how much back ended donation funding do you think they will yet receive from individuals?  Since lots of the back-ended funding I would think would be QSL request based, I'd argue that the early LOTW upload might hurt them.  How much, don't know.  Gotta go shovel snow.  

Dxpeditions don't get much back-end donations.  For VK9MT the entire back-end donation (defined as any donations above the minimum QSL fee) = $1,200.  For FT4TA my guess is a few thousands.  Any dxpedition organizer hoping for a bonanza on back-end donations is a fool.

So 864 individuals out of a total of 18,422 donated prior to OQRS.  This up-front donation rate (4.7%) has to set a record considering how little up-front donations other dxpeditions received.

ps the minimum QSL fee is what the QSL manager charges.  VK9MT didn't receive any money from back-end OQRS other than the amount above the beyond the minimum QSL fee.  So if someone donated $3 thinking that $2.50 will go to the dxpedition is foolish.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 11, 2014, 08:23:01 AM
Anyone who donates less than $5 shouldn't get a card and personally I wouldn't have given LOTW to everyone only people who donated before the started or people who paid more than $10 after the finished,

Too many free loaders out there,

I'm was not impressed with this operation but I'll still donate at least $25 when I do OQRS, any less is hardly worth sending,

Trevor
EI2GLB
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: M0TTB on November 11, 2014, 08:26:39 AM
Not easy for some to understand, but the rapid LoTW from some dxpeds isn't anything to do with $$ gained or $$ lost. LoTW as quick as possible for ALL is a core policy of some EU dx foundations/groups.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KF7CSO on November 11, 2014, 08:32:37 AM
Not easy for some to understand, but the rapid LoTW from some dxpeds isn't anything to do with $$ gained or $$ lost. LoTW as quick as possible for ALL is a core policy of some EU dx foundations/groups.

I'm slow. So if the dxpedition declines to adhere to the policy, these "EU dx foundations/groups" do what?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 11, 2014, 08:35:46 AM
So if the dxpedition declines to adhere to the policy, these "EU dx foundations/groups" do what?

These conditions are attached to a donation.  So if the dxpedition refuses to adhere to their policy it doesn't get the money.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: M0TTB on November 11, 2014, 08:36:53 AM
Not easy for some to understand, but the rapid LoTW from some dxpeds isn't anything to do with $$ gained or $$ lost. LoTW as quick as possible for ALL is a core policy of some EU dx foundations/groups.

I'm slow. So if the dxpedition declines to adhere to the policy, these "EU dx foundations/groups" do what?

I'm also saying it's the voluntary policy of some dx groups going on dxpeds.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KE4KY on November 11, 2014, 08:37:07 AM
I'm slow. So if the dxpedition declines to adhere to the policy, these "EU dx foundations/groups" do what?

Many stipulate their logo on any webpage and/or QSL card, how they get cards back to their club members that QSL, etc...

Just go to some of their websites...they list their desires up front in their documentation for applying for the needed grant or funds.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 11, 2014, 08:56:37 AM
Not easy for some to understand, but the rapid LoTW from some dxpeds isn't anything to do with $$ gained or $$ lost. LoTW as quick as possible for ALL is a core policy of some EU dx foundations/groups.

It's very easy to understand.  I just wonder if the individuals that might be incentivized to donate upfront for early LOTW would be > than the forgeone donations of those foundations.  Just a question.

John
Freezing-ish.  :)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 11, 2014, 09:15:12 AM
For a DXped like FT4TA, how much back ended donation funding do you think they will yet receive from individuals?  Since lots of the back-ended funding I would think would be QSL request based, I'd argue that the early LOTW upload might hurt them.  How much, don't know.  Gotta go shovel snow.  

Dxpeditions don't get much back-end donations.  For VK9MT the entire back-end donation (defined as any donations above the minimum QSL fee) = $1,200.  For FT4TA my guess is a few thousands.  Any dxpedition organizer hoping for a bonanza on back-end donations is a fool.

So 864 individuals out of a total of 18,422 donated prior to OQRS.  This up-front donation rate (4.7%) has to set a record considering how little up-front donations other dxpeditions received.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Yes but that (high) percentage could be inflated by a lower number of uniques worked too.  I imagine that there's a very high R^2 correlation between being an ATNO and willing to donate upfront.

I'm sorry I'm stuck on the upfront issue.  I just think that the whole DXped funding model is bas aackwards. 
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 11, 2014, 10:39:30 AM
I pretty much always donate a little extra on top of my OQRS cost. I don't have deep pockets, but I give what I can.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 11, 2014, 04:57:27 PM
The second misconception is that they are like "us".  Plugged into the "DX scene", active on DX forums, following events, and reading the expedition web sites.  Truth be told I really don't think most guys pay that much attention.

Yup.  I have a local buddy who doesn't follow any dxpedition news.  Yet he works every dxpedition when he's not away.  I have to 'feed' him with dxpedition news.  He doesn't care where the DX is as long as he has the correct beam heading :D

I'm coming around to thinking this is the case too. As Cass once wrote back in June of '96, "Long ago we learned that DXers are the smartest, the tallest, the best looking and always noted for their grasp of philosophy and psychology. DXers understand things. We learned that years back when we read it in a DX bulletin. We never forgot it. We were told it and we did not even have to think about it. The knowledge came easily. We don't think we should have to point this thing about DXers being the smartest, how handsome DXers are and how astute their thinking. Every DXer knows of this intuitively. It comes with the DXCC certificate."

Well, I guess I fell into the trap of thinking most Advanced/Extra Class HFers were also real DXers. A couple of weeks ago, one of my friends, then another and another, joined a Facebook group called "Ham Radio Operators." I joined too, and quickly came to the realization of what it's like out there in the real world, away from this cozy fellowship of DXers. It's a strange and mystifying place where guys are content with G5RVs (or as one called it, his GR5V), think nobody should be allowed to run more than 100 Watts--and being forced to turn even that down once a QSO is established--and where amazement sets in when they work a real live station across the great big ginormous Atlantic Ocean. I figure they get the vapours at the thought of working over the pole into the Pacific.

Well, this group had very few ops who worked FT4TA at all, and most of those who did managed anywhere between 1 and 4 QSOs, tops. Many have no clue about DXpedition protocols, who's up next or even the basics we know here. I suspect it's much as Jon says, that they're just J. Random Hammy Hambone with a cluster connection and a wire 'tween the pine trees in the back 40. Figure "hey, I can hear him, my logger says I need this guy so what the heck."
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W2IRT on November 11, 2014, 05:02:34 PM
I pretty much always donate a little extra on top of my OQRS cost. I don't have deep pockets, but I give what I can.

Agreed; ditto. I donated upfront to Tromelin knowing I'd surely work them on at least 2 or 3 bands, and 2 or 3 modes, and what that would do for my totals, etc. I also plan to donate a second time, as a way of thanking them for 16 slots and to defray their postage costs. I don't need a card from them, but I'd like one for an ATNO for my album.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N6PSE on November 11, 2014, 05:35:54 PM
Peter, to echo your point, I'll never forget during the ST0R Dxpedition to the new country of South Sudan, I was trying to give General Class ops a chance to work us on 20 meters SSB.  I know that 14.225 is bad because of SSTV at 14.230.  I started at 14.240 but quickly got hollered at by some guys on a sked. Then I went to 14.245 and the guys at 14.247 hollered at me because they had a net.  I listened at 14.260 and IOTA guys were busy.

I went up to 14.270 and I could hear the jammers and crazy guys that used to be at 14.272. I finally found a spot at 14.280 to work some general class guys. Some guys would rather talk about the price of corn or pork bellies than work a new DX country.

I've written my thoughts on the FT4TA Dxpedition on my Blog at: http://n6pse.wordpress.com
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: MM0NDX on November 12, 2014, 12:13:18 AM
FINAL UPDATE - We made it! After so many years of planning, sleepless nights, daily issues to solve, it’s hard for us to realize that FT4TA is now history. We all worked, think, dream “Tromelin” for months!

I’m now writing you theses words from Mayotte. Yesterday, the small plane came back to Tromelin to pick us up, after 10 days spent on this isolated island.. The departure from the island was full of emotions.

We don’t had time yet to look around on the blogs, websites etc … it’s hundreds of emails to be classified later, but for now, priority is given to families and friends.

Radio operations were executed “as planned”, all communications and amateur radio promotions activities were also a success. We will come back on this part and make a full debriefing later. Previous experience on this type of project shows that any problem in the complex organisation, from transportation, to logistics, energy, etc can occur at any time and make everything fail…nothing of this happened to us, thanks to the precise organisation, and that is the most important thing.

On the island our motivation was there from the first minute until the last. Our hard work from the time we step on the island of Tromelin allows us, from the first night, to start achieving our objectives. For low bands lovers, we knew that we had to take any chance from day 1 and erecting the 160m antenna appears to be a very good idea. We are sure low banders have much appreciated that; conditions have never been better than the first two nights. At the same time we also started up 4 others stations on the higher bands. What a huge work done in only a few hours before darkness, last tunings on the antennas were made with “head lights”. 2000 QSOs were in the log at sunrise! We then stopped all transmission during the minimum amount of time, to finish all antenna work installation, despite high temperature and strong winds.

We are still amazed by the huge pileups. Despite all team members having already experience from other most wanted entities, none of us had ever had to face such an incredible demand. Up 5, 5 to 10, to 20…whatever our instructions, bands were filled in seconds. Pileups were so big, that even catching a call, or just letters was a challenging task, and no matter the band, mode or the time of the day! We had to be fully dedicated and concentrated to keep managing pileups and good rate without making errors in logging. Since we didn’t had to reach a specific QSO number, we just kept focused on our initial goals, and following the propagation forecast allows us to get contacted by all part of the world. It seems to had been productive and we had given chance fairly to any part of the world. Despite this, it was sometime very difficult to get respect from the pileup, and more discipline would had allow us better rates and more contacts.

We took advantage of the excellent propagation conditions on the higher bands. At our sunrise, focusing on Japan and also West coast US by long path, then Europe all day long, following at our sunset and during the first part of the night by Americas. Of course, we always try to listen to other less populated areas and we believe we also give a faire chance to them. Sometimes getting more than one continent at the same time on the same band was really challenging.

The daily communication with our pilots allowed us to adapt our traffic pattern. Nevertheless, some “advise” was not really realistic. For instance, putting a 20m station 24/7 would have made us loose 12h of radio per day, since this band was totally closed few hours after sunrise and until sunset. We were also being asked to limit our split, and we focus on reducing to the minimum each time it was possible while still being able to keep decoding callsigns. Others were asking more low bands, less low bands, more RTTY, less RTTY, etc..

We will soon read emails and comments related to our activity. Obviously many people will provide us advice, some more relevant than others.

With more than 1000 QSO per day and per operator, while keeping focus on the respective openings, was challenging. In addition, we had to balance our time between the radio sessions, the help in the daily life on the island (cooking, cleaning, etc …), the continuous improvement on our antenna system, the daily satellite communication with our pilot, and finally some hours of sleeping.

Our objectives were clearly announced and supported by the community and we believe we had achieve most of them. In addition, we were happy to surprise most of you by providing immediate LoTW confirmation during our activity.

A detailed summary will come in due date. It will also be the opportunity to share with you this exciting adventure with all details. We will also come back with statistics, sharing our thoughts on what did work well and what is still to be improved. We will also explain in more detail the part of the activity that was much less known by the amateur radio community, but which was probably the most important, since our DXpedition was a wonderful promotional event for amateur radio towards the TAAF, the officials, schools, journalists etc …

But for now, please get in contact with Yann F1NGP our QSL Manager for all related QSL and log topic. Cedric F5UKW, our webmaster, will try to design and print the QSL card as soon as possible. Just to remember, all direct QSL will be stamped by the dedicated TAAF stamp issued specialy for our dxpedition, and will be send out from Tromelin

We have thousands of photos and hundreds hours of video and we are impatient to share some of them to show you the magical of Tromelin.
We are extremelty grateful to the TAAF to had allowed us to realised this expedition: THANK YOU

What an incredible adventure, 73′s de F5UFX for the FT4TA TEAM , QRT.

(https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQAAvTdbGmb7wXVM&w=484&h=253&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xpf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F1536428_822491937796998_8238858902006034752_n.jpg%3Foh%3Df476cdfe965e11ac9591b39303e9f392%26oe%3D54D205CC&cfs=1)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KH6DC on November 12, 2014, 12:48:29 AM
You guys did an awesome job, thank you.

73, Delwyn KH6DC
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AJ7G on November 12, 2014, 02:02:33 AM
Yes, the team did a fabulous job.  THANKS!  Have a safe journey home!

73 Randy AJ7G
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WO7R on November 12, 2014, 04:14:55 AM
MM0NDX thank the team for the hard work.

We look forward to hearing the story from your side of the microphone.

The LOTW credit was amazing and useful.  To be sure of QSOs from a place like Tromlein while the DXpedition was still happening was amazing.  It kept me out of some pileups for sure and I hope it cut down a little on the craziness for the team.  As a "W7" op, I much appreciated the listening for West Coast on the times you did so.  It helped.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AA6YQ on November 12, 2014, 05:25:24 AM
Well done. Thanks!

      73,

           Dave, AA6YQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W1VT on November 12, 2014, 05:39:15 AM
Thanks for the great DX-pedition. 

The lack of respect is nothing new--back when I worked FR7CG/T with 4 watts and a half wave vertical from Hawaii--someone had the gall to say there were no sixes awake at that hour!

Zack W1VT (ex KH6CP)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N3QE on November 12, 2014, 05:56:39 AM
and where amazement sets in when they work a real live station across the great big ginormous Atlantic Ocean. I figure they get the vapours at the thought of working over the pole into the Pacific.

Fundamentally, aren't we into DX'ing because when we were a kid (or at whatever formative stage) we were first captivated by working some other state, then VE, then across the Atlantic, then JA's, and we all remember that thrill of each step, and get at least a little of it as we work them still

Heck, just this past summer, I got to work at W1AW/portables where the best known contesters and DX'ers in the world, were gushing over at the size of the raging JA pileups. They were working them at a furious pace, but also shouting out loud how amazing this was. Just amazing, the enthusiasm these guys have after a half century in ham radio and being at the top of nearly every contest and honor roll list and still "getting the vapors" at working JA's.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KB2FCV on November 12, 2014, 07:30:29 AM
Thanks guys for the great Dxpedition! Have a safe trip home!
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 12, 2014, 07:33:43 AM
Great dxpedition and a job well done!  Hopefully the team will consider Glorioso as their next target.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: EI2GLB on November 12, 2014, 08:20:49 AM
They all ready did FT/G Jonathan but I'm sure lots still need it,

That's all I will say  ;)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 12, 2014, 09:07:34 AM
I can only imagine how much work goes into the planning and execution of trips like FT4TA.  A simple thank you seems inadequate to express my gratitude, but thank you.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on November 12, 2014, 09:15:55 AM
I can only imagine how much work goes into the planning and execution of trips like FT4TA.  A simple thank you seems inadequate to express my gratitude, but thank you.

And most importantly, this result was avoided:

(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll82/shemaro91/crying-baby.jpg)

Getting the commemorative stamp, postmarked Tromelin, will just be the icing on the cake.  An enjoyable, if challenging, operation.  I'm looking forward to their next one...
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: WS3N on November 12, 2014, 10:00:17 AM
It's a strange and mystifying place ...

Don't you suppose non-DXers (i.e. the majority of hams) feel that way about you? Not to mention the non-hams who no doubt think we're all a bit crazy.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KW4CQ on November 12, 2014, 10:51:37 AM
Managed only one contact but I'm very grateful for the ATNO.  I appear in ClubLog but not in LoTW.  I wonder why?
12m CW 11/05/2014 20:57 UTC.

Bob KW4CQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5INP on November 12, 2014, 11:04:48 AM
Don't you suppose non-DXers (i.e. the majority of hams) ...

That's interesting, I never thought about it. Is that based on one of the DX services such as LoTW or Clublog - or what?
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE8EV on November 12, 2014, 11:20:24 AM
Managed only one contact but I'm very grateful for the ATNO.  I appear in ClubLog but not in LoTW.  I wonder why?
12m CW 11/05/2014 20:57 UTC.

Bob KW4CQ

Probably because your QSO details (date/time/band/mode) do not match the FT4TA logs so no LoTW match -or- you didn't upload your QSO to LoTW.  Check everything and try again...

GL
John VE8EV
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: VE3YF on November 12, 2014, 11:39:34 AM
Managed only one contact but I'm very grateful for the ATNO.  I appear in ClubLog but not in LoTW.  I wonder why?
12m CW 11/05/2014 20:57 UTC.

Bob KW4CQ

Probably because your QSO details (date/time/band/mode) do not match the FT4TA logs so no LoTW match -or- you didn't upload your QSO to LoTW.  Check everything and try again...

GL
John VE8EV

Bob:

I had a problem with the 12m CW contact somewhat the same. It was in Clublog but couldn't get a match. I ended up working them again and the same problem, couldn't get a match, yet I finally got a match in LOTW. So when I filled out the OQRS in Clublog, I will not get a card for the 12m CW contact, but at least I have it in LOTW. I still say that one logging computer might be the issue, as the 12m CW QSO's are the only ones with issues, and my computer is always in Zulu time so the issue is not at my end. GL

73 De Mike
VE3YF

Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: K0YQ on November 12, 2014, 11:40:38 AM
I can only imagine how much work goes into the planning and execution of trips like FT4TA.  A simple thank you seems inadequate to express my gratitude, but thank you.

And most importantly, this result was avoided:

(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll82/shemaro91/crying-baby.jpg)

Getting the commemorative stamp, postmarked Tromelin, will just be the icing on the cake.  An enjoyable, if challenging, operation.  I'm looking forward to their next one...

Absolutely!  But between Slim and the pileups, I may have lost some tread on the tires.  DXing above 290 is no place for the weak or the meek.

(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/345/f/e/eeww_wrinkly_old_man_by_blackroseeatsmuffins-d34odzs.png)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on November 12, 2014, 04:15:38 PM
For those of you who has a LoTW confirmation problem, you could diagnose the problem by doing a function called 'log matching' in Clublog.  Essentially it's like LoTW except it's done in Clublog.  If Clublog cannot match the two logs then one of the logs has incorrect data.  GL.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W7WQ on November 12, 2014, 04:27:08 PM
I'm happy for the sole 17m cw contact.  75W to a half wave dipole about 35 feet, broadside E/W not the path to FT4T but he somehow heard me.  Sadly though the VU4 has been but a whisper here...maybe not at right place at right time.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KW4CQ on November 13, 2014, 06:55:52 AM
Managed only one contact but I'm very grateful for the ATNO.  I appear in ClubLog but not in LoTW.  I wonder why?
12m CW 11/05/2014 20:57 UTC.

Bob KW4CQ

I checked again last night on LoTW and there it was.  Oh, how sweet it is!
Thanks everyone.

Bob KW4CQ
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on February 24, 2015, 08:48:42 PM
They've brought out a book for purchase but you can view it for free too ;D

E-reader won't work on Android but Windows is fine:

   http://www.blurb.fr/books/5999560-hamradio-dxpedition-to-tromelin-island-ft4ta-2014 (http://www.blurb.fr/books/5999560-hamradio-dxpedition-to-tromelin-island-ft4ta-2014)

Worth the read, 73 Paul
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: W6GX on February 24, 2015, 09:53:48 PM
Wow.  What a great read and beautiful photos!  It's like reading a fairy tale story ;D  The team has done a fantastic job from beginning to end.  They have earned my respect and financial support for their next gig :)

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N1UK on February 25, 2015, 07:30:20 AM
The link didn't seem to work for me.

Mark N1UK
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on February 25, 2015, 07:37:01 AM
The link didn't seem to work for me.

Mark N1UK

Me either.  Go to: http://blur.by/1LziqfS (http://blur.by/1LziqfS) then click the image where it says "Preview."  You need Adobe Flash enabled, unfortunately.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on February 25, 2015, 08:51:17 AM
The link didn't seem to work for me.

Mark N1UK

Me either.  Go to: http://blur.by/1LziqfS (http://blur.by/1LziqfS) then click the image where it says "Preview."  You need Adobe Flash enabled, unfortunately.

Why "unfortunately" ?

A local can't open it either, not sure what the problem is, works fine here (Windows Vista) and also on Linux box but you do need "Flash".
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: KJ4Z on February 25, 2015, 09:01:45 AM
Quote
You need Adobe Flash enabled, unfortunately.

Why "unfortunately" ?


Flash is a buggy, crashy CPU hog, at least in my experience.  I only have it enabled in one "special" browser.  Fortunately, the web has largely moved on in the last few years.

Sorry if you're a Flash fan!  :)
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: N5PG on February 25, 2015, 09:05:27 AM
Not a fan, it's just a necessary evil if you're to see a lot of content.
Title: RE: FT4TA Tromelin dxpedition
Post by: AF3Y on February 25, 2015, 09:43:27 AM
Opens fine for me.  IE11 and win

Gene AF3Y