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Author Topic: IC-7300 vs. TS-590SG ? (not S model)  (Read 102801 times)
GM1FLQ
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Posts: 794




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« Reply #225 on: August 09, 2017, 12:23:53 AM »

. At least no one has put a antenna into a $1000 rice box with a display yet.

My point is antennas are what makes the difference. Radios are nearly all approaching the limit of physics and software tools are filling the operating gap. I find signal stacking in N1MM very useful as a small pistol station doing S&P.

Some contest  Roll Eyes - may as well have software replacing drivers in the Indy500 next.

Wonder at which point realisation of the law of unintended consequences is going to kick in.  Undecided
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VE3WGO
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Posts: 163




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« Reply #226 on: August 09, 2017, 10:12:07 AM »


Correct...the N1MM+ window depiction of the spectrum display is not as well defined as an actual panadapter on a radio or external dongle. But as long as the function is engaged, you don't have to look at it, and it can be hidden. Even though the 7300 screen is small, you can change the band's fixed edges of the scope to the contest's activity width. This will expand and better define the signals and spaces between signals on the radio's scope/waterfall traces. The sharp resolution and brightness of the 7300 scope/waterfall is more than good enough to see where you are as you hit Shift+Up/Down on the keyboard to move from signal to signal.

In fact, as long as the N1MM+ spectrum display is adjusted properly to define and filter out noise crashes from actual signals (no matter how weak they are) and you hide it, you don't even have to look at the radio's display. You're confident of hitting every signal as you Shift+Up/Down search and pounce for runners. Lets you concentrate soley on the keyboard and the other important N1MM+ windows. Pretty neat. 

True, the IC-7300's screen isn't really that small.  It's the size of many smartphone screens (somewhere between an iPhone 5 and 6), and those seem to be big enough for everybody.  Or are hams special?  (what's that smartphone in your pocket)
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K0UA
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Posts: 1458




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« Reply #227 on: August 09, 2017, 08:14:50 PM »

By the way if anyone wants to know about the heat dissipation of the IC7300.  I own one and I also own an Ic 756pro3.  I was pleasantly surprised that the 7300 stays cooler when run wide open 100 watts than the 756pro3.  I don't know how to explain it, other than the air handling is better on the 7300.  This rig DOES NOT GET HOT. I run mostly digital, balls to the wall and this thing has a temprature gauge in the meters sections and while it warms up a bit, it never gets past the letter L in the word COOL.   A long way to the HOT. And a hand on the heat sink remains downright cool.  It is the most amazing cooling I haver ever seen on a rig and I have owned several.

I noted that several mentioned how it "had to get hot" because it is so small.  Yep it is half the size of my pro3 and doesn't even get half as hot.  The fans runs during transmit, but goes off or slows down so slow you can't hear it during receive.  By the way the DSP noise reduction is better than on the pro 3 also. And it should, it is 10 years newer.  I understand the IC7000 is another word for frying pan. Some say you can cook eggs on them.  I don't know, I have never owned one of those, but if you are worried about heat and the 7300, worry no more.  This rig really keeps its cool.  Wish I could say that about a couple of yaesu's I own.  I have an FT90, you can fry bacon on if you want to.
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K7JQ
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Posts: 961




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« Reply #228 on: August 09, 2017, 08:29:55 PM »

By the way if anyone wants to know about the heat dissipation of the IC7300.  I own one and I also own an Ic 756pro3.  I was pleasantly surprised that the 7300 stays cooler when run wide open 100 watts than the 756pro3.  I don't know how to explain it, other than the air handling is better on the 7300.  This rig DOES NOT GET HOT. I run mostly digital, balls to the wall and this thing has a temprature gauge in the meters sections and while it warms up a bit, it never gets past the letter L in the word COOL.   A long way to the HOT. And a hand on the heat sink remains downright cool.  It is the most amazing cooling I haver ever seen on a rig and I have owned several.

I noted that several mentioned how it "had to get hot" because it is so small.  Yep it is half the size of my pro3 and doesn't even get half as hot.  The fans runs during transmit, but goes off or slows down so slow you can't hear it during receive.  By the way the DSP noise reduction is better than on the pro 3 also. And it should, it is 10 years newer.  I understand the IC7000 is another word for frying pan. Some say you can cook eggs on them.  I don't know, I have never owned one of those, but if you are worried about heat and the 7300, worry no more.  This rig really keeps its cool.  Wish I could say that about a couple of yaesu's I own.  I have an FT90, you can fry bacon on if you want to.

I agree. My 7300 is way cooler than my 7600, at 100 watts under constant duty in contests. In fact, it doesn't even get warm.
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VE3WGO
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Posts: 163




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« Reply #229 on: August 10, 2017, 05:19:24 AM »

hmm, very interesting!  Perhaps the 7300's transmitter and power amplifier is more efficient than the older radios.  Does the 7300 use less DC current at full power than the 7600 does?

Is there anything in the rig's documentation that talks about the kind of power amp it uses, maybe some DSP linearization to increase the efficiency or something like that.

73, Ed VE3WGO
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GM1FLQ
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Posts: 794




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« Reply #230 on: August 10, 2017, 06:42:40 AM »

Or are hams special?  

Only some  Sad >>> Cry........fishfinder Icom, HRD, sprinkling of mission control LCD displays, a big boomboom Heil mic & you're more than half way there.

          Grin..............
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 06:48:10 AM by GM1FLQ » Logged
K7JQ
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Posts: 961




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« Reply #231 on: August 10, 2017, 08:37:06 AM »

hmm, very interesting!  Perhaps the 7300's transmitter and power amplifier is more efficient than the older radios.  Does the 7300 use less DC current at full power than the 7600 does?

Is there anything in the rig's documentation that talks about the kind of power amp it uses, maybe some DSP linearization to increase the efficiency or something like that.

73, Ed VE3WGO

Ed, I took some measurements between the 7600 and 7300, using the meter on an Alinco DM-330MV switching power supply, 13.8V, no voltage drop on key downs at 100W CW/RTTY:

Current draw on receive....7600-4A      7300-2A
Current draw on PTT SSB, no voice activation, no power output....7600-8A      7300-4.5A
Current draw on key down, 100W CW/RTTY....7600-21A        7300-19A

The 7300 has a large muffin cooling fan, the full height of the radio (3-1/2"), which activates full speed on every PTT/key down during the entire transmission. Some have found it objectionable, and replaced it with a quieter fan. Doesn't bother me. I believe the 7600 fan is smaller, barely discernible, and I think is thermostatically controlled on/off or speed.

73,  Bob K7JQ

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K0UA
Member

Posts: 1458




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« Reply #232 on: August 10, 2017, 08:55:27 AM »

. At least no one has put a antenna into a $1000 rice box with a display yet.

My point is antennas are what makes the difference. Radios are nearly all approaching the limit of physics and software tools are filling the operating gap. I find signal stacking in N1MM very useful as a small pistol station doing S&P.

Some contest  Roll Eyes - may as well have software replacing drivers in the Indy500 next.

Wonder at which point realisation of the law of unintended consequences is going to kick in.  Undecided

Do you have a purpose in life?  Or are you like a fly:  eat chit and bother people? Pull that "weed" from up your azz and join the human race. Just because you are a scotsman does not mean you have to act this way.
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K1HMS
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Posts: 467




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« Reply #233 on: August 10, 2017, 09:23:02 AM »



Fratricide? - My call is in your quote twice, I do not believe I'm your intended target.... I have and like my 7300 and do not have a LCD phobia.
K1HMS
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KC4ZGP
Member

Posts: 1637




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« Reply #234 on: August 10, 2017, 10:26:40 AM »

I tell you, that TS-480HX is looking better each day.

My TS-450S uses two 2SC2879 in a push-pull arrangement.

Each is rated at 100 watts.

Why are they under driven for a total of 100 watts. I need to find how to drive them a tad more.
My other amplifiers' in push-pull is twice that of one device. It can be done.

I am a mad scientist ham radio guy. Mmwwaaa!!!

Kraus
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K0UA
Member

Posts: 1458




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« Reply #235 on: August 10, 2017, 10:27:39 AM »



Fratricide? - My call is in your quote twice, I do not believe I'm your intended target.... I have and like my 7300 and do not have a LCD phobia.
K1HMS

Sorry, I didn't meant to include you.. I was referring to our Scot "friend". 
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K7JQ
Member

Posts: 961




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« Reply #236 on: August 10, 2017, 10:52:38 AM »

hmm, very interesting!  Perhaps the 7300's transmitter and power amplifier is more efficient than the older radios.  Does the 7300 use less DC current at full power than the 7600 does?

Is there anything in the rig's documentation that talks about the kind of power amp it uses, maybe some DSP linearization to increase the efficiency or something like that.

73, Ed VE3WGO

Ed, I took some measurements between the 7600 and 7300, using the meter on an Alinco DM-330MV switching power supply, 13.8V, no voltage drop on key downs at 100W CW/RTTY:

Current draw on receive....7600-4A      7300-2A
Current draw on PTT SSB, no voice activation, no power output....7600-8A      7300-4.5A
Current draw on key down, 100W CW/RTTY....7600-21A        7300-19A

The 7300 has a large muffin cooling fan, the full height of the radio (3-1/2"), which activates full speed on every PTT/key down during the entire transmission. Some have found it objectionable, and replaced it with a quieter fan. Doesn't bother me. I believe the 7600 fan is smaller, barely discernible, and I think is thermostatically controlled on/off or speed.

73,  Bob K7JQ



Some additional measurements on the RADIOS' METERS (approximate, as calibration markings aren't exact):

Key down, 100W CW/RTTY output....7600- 12.3V @ 19A        7300- 12.8V @ 17A

73,  Bob K7JQ



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VE3WGO
Member

Posts: 163




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« Reply #237 on: August 10, 2017, 11:13:59 AM »


....snip...

Some additional measurements on the RADIOS' METERS (approximate, as calibration markings aren't exact):

Key down, 100W CW/RTTY output....7600- 12.3V @ 19A        7300- 12.8V @ 17A

73,  Bob K7JQ


thanks Bob, so there is a big difference!   your readings all show that there is about 25-30 watts less consumption by the 7300 in receive and transmit! 

Good to see that the energy efficiency trend went in the right direction!   We can only speculate about what allows that to happen in the 7300 ...   perhaps the DSP/FPGAs, or a new power amp technology, or ...

73, Ed VE3WGO
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VK3BL
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Posts: 1359


WWW

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« Reply #238 on: August 11, 2017, 04:31:51 AM »

Why are they under driven for a total of 100 watts. I need to find how to drive them a tad more.
My other amplifiers' in push-pull is twice that of one device. It can be done.

Kraus

To keep them linear. 

My THP HL-2.5Kfx has 2x 1500 Watt Dissipation 100 Volt FETs but is conservatively rated at 1500 watts output, because it was designed properly for linearity.


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J.D. Mitchell - VK3BL / XU7AGA - http://vk3bl.wordpress.com
NM0O
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Posts: 9




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« Reply #239 on: September 04, 2017, 01:03:13 PM »



I call it a new toy with eye candy for sales because it is small which limits display and front panel button or knobs, has a odd front control panel and also because its small size means it has to get warmer at 100 watts out key down because of less thermal mass and heat sink surface area. Some seem to think that small rigs do not have to loose as much heat but big or small they are all about 50% efficient on PA stage at best and have to loose same amount of heat.
[/quote]

There is a sense in which I consider my one-year-old IC-7300 a "toy": I won it a year ago during Superfest in Peoria, IL. Nothing else indicates that status, either in its appearance or in its performance.

Since I use the radio every day, maybe I can enlighten those who don't.

For me, a good ragchew is the most fun to be had. It occasions longer transmission periods and the swapping of actual personal information with someone else who likes the same stuff. In the course of two long ragchews yesterday, I found that the radio did NOT get uncomfortably warm (something I can monitor from the adequately-sized display). During these conversations, I watched the power output, and it peaked around 20 amps throughout. Sure, that's a lot of power, but the resultant heat was dissipated effectively by the radio's heat sinks and fan. It was not a problem at all.

The display--and its various optional inclusions--is useful for anyone who can pick up ordinary table dishes. It is a good size for me to garner information from it and for the radio to be small enough to fit on my desk. Control of these inclusions is easy with one or two finger touches, especially with changes of frequency and mode. I do NOT find myself put out by NOT having to drill down through six sets of instructions. A finger touch will get it done.

The main dial and three other knobs that appear on the front panel of the 7300 perform multiple functions that can be done quickly and cleanly, and the various buttons also on the panel are pretty self-explanatory. They make life pretty easy for even the casual operator like me.

Jon, NM0O
Happy ham since summer 1979
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