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Author Topic: ARRL Committee for New Entry-Level License  (Read 21844 times)
WN2C
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Posts: 546




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« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2017, 09:07:34 PM »

Curmudgeons. If you had to pass the code test or draw / explain / identify an oscillator circuit then you are a curmudgeon, and any change to the license structure and / or license requirements to get younger people involved is bad.

How many of you got in to some career involving some technical aspect because of ham radio?
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KC9NRN
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Posts: 98




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« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2017, 01:29:21 PM »

How about a Technician class license, made easier then the original Novice, with no code. Oh wait we have that now. I read where some 7 year old passed the tech. test. How much easier can you make it.

Shortly after I passed my Novice test in 1978, at the ripe old age of 17, I read an article in CQ magazine about a 4 year old kid who passed HIS Novice test, including the morse code test required at the time. Of course, his mom and dad were both hams, so that might have provided a little encouragement.

But yeah. Good question. How much easier CAN you make it?

When I went to Dayton to take the Tech exam in 2008 there was an 8 year old girl there taking her Extra which she easily passed. I asked her afterword's how hard was the test, she smiled and said she wishes there was a harder level to make it interesting. I felt like a moron talking to this kid....
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N2EY
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Posts: 4455




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« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2017, 12:27:19 PM »

Curmudgeons. If you had to pass the code test or draw / explain / identify an oscillator circuit then you are a curmudgeon, and any change to the license structure and / or license requirements to get younger people involved is bad.

Oh please.

I've been a ham 50 years in October. Went from Novice to Extra in three years. FCC office exams and the whole deal. And I support changes to the license requirements and structure IF they make sense.

How many of you got in to some career involving some technical aspect because of ham radio?

Does being an electrical engineer (BSEE and MSEE) count?
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K6CPO
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Posts: 404




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« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2017, 04:54:59 PM »


I've been a ham 50 years in October. Went from Novice to Extra in three years. FCC office exams and the whole deal. And I support changes to the license requirements and structure IF they make sense.

There's the key words "...if they make sense."  It's pretty clear the ARRL wants more hams because they fear for their existence.  So far, none of the proposals put forth make any sense.  Expanding Technician privileges, while seeming to be good idea on the face of it, does nothing but erode what those of us with higher licenses worked hard to achieve. 

Leave the licensing structure alone...
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K3NRX
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Posts: 2874


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« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2017, 06:01:07 AM »

The problem is that the 'early retirees' are actually people like me who got older and got laid off. Fortunately, I had earned a pension and had a big 401K at the time. Most people in the current generation won't be so lucky. So, I'm a bit concerned that the 40+ group of well heeled people of leisure are dwindling faster than we know.

We do need younger people.

Why? Why do we need younger people?....this has been, is and always will be a hobby dominated in it's demographic by men, middle aged, and older of moderate to high income levels.....guys like me who got a license at age 18 are the exception, as well as those even of younger age.....that's not to say people who aren't men, middle aged and/or older can't or shouldn't get into the hobby......I'm just saying it not a frequent occurrence and probably never will be..... when I was younger, my interests were sports and girls (even though they weren't interested in me, and pretty much still aren't... Roll Eyes Tongue).....but yes, ham radio was there too.....that's not the way it is with the majority of young people...When I first started getting on 2 meters at age 20, and went to a ham club meeting for the first time, i was kind of flabbergasted that every guy there was pretty much in their 40s and older....I was probably the youngest guy there at the time....have to admit, i felt kind of out of place....some of those guys were cool....some of them were ....well...ya know... Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue... .....how many young people do you know out there who want to be involved in a hobby dominated by a bunch of old(er) guys?...how many young people have a budget or income to blow money on radio gear?...how many young people do you know have the time for such an endeavor?.....younger people are going to do what younger people are going to do....no matter what..and this nonsense of another "entry level" license being the solution is just that...Nonsense....it won't change a thing......get over it with this with this we need more younger people thing....Ham radio is what it is....and doing stupid stuff like taking on another exam a 5 year old can pass for a newly developed lower grade of license is not going make it better.....

V
K3NRX
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 06:22:33 AM by K3NRX » Logged
N9KX
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Posts: 2062




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« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2017, 10:47:42 PM »


Yep!  What we will definitely get is a license that is designed to significantly increase the number of new ARRL members, and new radio equipment buyers!  Money talks, bupkiss walks!!    Shocked

And nothing says "I love you" like a nice thick stack of dead presidents. This is probably closer to the reality of what the current thinking revolves around.

N8AUC, 3 months water under the bridge, but you misattributed ONAIR's quote above to me, so i have fixed it for the record Wink

how about we offer kids a cash rebate if they get a license? (though we will need some legalese experts to reword it and provide plausible deniability to make it seem like a discount on products/ membership)
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KB9ZB
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Posts: 111




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« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2017, 07:24:47 AM »

I am not sure what or if we need a new path for new hams, BUT I do know what we don't need. The attitude of old school will not achieve the results we desire and dumbing down what we have will not get what we want as well. What we do need is a little give and take, the new hams need a taste of what we have to offer. going back to the old novice days, we can learn what works and what did not. Having a sunset license did not work well ( remember when you had one year to upgrade or else you had to start all over)and we changed that to an unlimited time license. still today we have a lot of novice class licenses on the air and on the books, this a great thing. CW back in the day was our main means of communication and a world wide requirement. Now it not longer is, but we have had a surge in new folks on the CW bands. This is due in large part because they don't have to but want to learn CW. We can use this as an incentive to gain a license and to upgrade.
In todays world we not use voice and data as our main means of commination, so the entry level license needs to have this incorporated in it, so lets give the new entry class license a little voice and a little data on the HF bands. How about 100KHZ voice on the same bands they CW privileges on now, keep it simple and easy to implement and administer.
We also need to get folks involved and interested, in short we need to advertise to the general public in A SENSE. Lets get the clubs to set up GOTA stations not just on field day but n the 4th of July and other holidays, at events, at picnics at any public function you may have. Not every function but as many as each club can, the better we are at getting the word out the better. We also need to hold classes as well, if you look at the ARRL web site you will note very few if any tech license classes are being held. That we have to change, holding classes will get more people involved and we will also need more Elmer's to help those new folks. This is a win win for all
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ONAIR
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Posts: 3536




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« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2017, 01:01:19 PM »

Just put a 10 through 80 rig into a smartphone!  Maybe then the kids might get excited about the hobby.
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K0RGR
Member

Posts: 138




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« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2017, 06:52:14 PM »

The problem is that the 'early retirees' are actually people like me who got older and got laid off. Fortunately, I had earned a pension and had a big 401K at the time. Most people in the current generation won't be so lucky. So, I'm a bit concerned that the 40+ group of well heeled people of leisure are dwindling faster than we know.

We do need younger people.

Why? Why do we need younger people?....this has been, is and always will be a hobby dominated in it's demographic by men, middle aged, and older of moderate to high income levels.....guys like me who got a license at age 18 are the exception, as well as those even of younger age.....that's not to say people who aren't men, middle aged and/or older can't or shouldn't get into the hobby......I'm just saying it not a frequent occurrence and probably never will be..... when I was younger, my interests were sports and girls (even though they weren't interested in me, and pretty much still aren't... Roll Eyes Tongue).....but yes, ham radio was there too.....that's not the way it is with the majority of young people
V
K3NRX


I was 13 when I was licensed, and I had a group of similarly aged ham buddies. Essentially growing up with friends who shared my fascination with the hobby is certainly a big part of why I'm still around.

Now, I am on Social Security, and in no shape for much antenna work, or setting up Field Day, or a dozen other things I used to do easily. That situation will not improve for me, nor for those my age and older, which is almost certainly a majority of U.S. hams.  We're going to need the young folks to do the things our aging bags of bones can't do.

Young minds also tend to be the source of new ideas, and we need a lot of those. I will not be the inventor of the next new digital mode or the next advance in SDR technology. Someone who is a kid today will.

What good are all these radios if there isn't anyone to talk to? I am not that interested in recruiting more hams - but I want to keep the ones we've got, and help them become the best they can be. Hands-on operating is the only way for that to happen.
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WB4M
Member

Posts: 267




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« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2017, 08:40:24 PM »


[/quote]

Why? Why do we need younger people?....this has been, is and always will be a hobby dominated in it's demographic by men, middle aged, and older of moderate to high income levels.....guys like me who got a license at age 18 are the exception, as well as those even of younger age.....that's not to say people who aren't men, middle aged and/or older can't or shouldn't get into the hobby......I'm just saying it not a frequent occurrence and probably never will be..... when I was younger, my interests were sports and girls (even though they weren't interested in me, and pretty much still aren't... Roll Eyes Tongue).....but yes, ham radio was there too.....that's not the way it is with the majority of young people...When I first started getting on 2 meters at age 20, and went to a ham club meeting for the first time, i was kind of flabbergasted that every guy there was pretty much in their 40s and older....I was probably the youngest guy there at the time....have to admit, i felt kind of out of place....some of those guys were cool....some of them were ....well...ya know... Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue... .....how many young people do you know out there who want to be involved in a hobby dominated by a bunch of old(er) guys?...how many young people have a budget or income to blow money on radio gear?...how many young people do you know have the time for such an endeavor?.....younger people are going to do what younger people are going to do....no matter what..and this nonsense of another "entry level" license being the solution is just that...Nonsense....it won't change a thing......get over it with this with this we need more younger people thing....Ham radio is what it is....and doing stupid stuff like taking on another exam a 5 year old can pass for a newly developed lower grade of license is not going make it better.....

V
K3NRX

[/quote]

This has been my perspective for some time, we focus on the wrong age group, for the very reasons K3NRX mentions.   Seems the ARRL targets the 15 and under people, and I feel main target should be 35-40+.  Which group is more likely to have the time, interest, MONEY, to spend on this hobby?  It has been truthfully said many times that young people have their cellphone and that is their social activity now.  I was 27 when first licensed and I didn't have the distractions of computers or cellphones.  I no longer believe the ARRL wants the "trained pool", they just want consumers.
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KQ4YA
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Posts: 77


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« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2017, 04:42:22 AM »

I couldn't help it - I had to laugh when the ARRL worried that this might be a problem:

"possibly due to the Amateur Radio terminology"

Mercy, imagine that - using Amateur Radio terminology in a test to get an Amateur Radio license. How dare they?
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W1JKA
Member

Posts: 2087




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« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2017, 02:44:24 AM »

Why doesn't the ARRL just buy the publishing rights for "Amateur Radio for Dummies" and re label it with the ARRL logo?
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N9AOP
Member

Posts: 664




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« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2017, 05:38:15 PM »

The code test was dropped and the ham-in-a-day class was started.  This generated a large volume of licensed operators but in my area I find that less than 1% of these folks add any value to the hobby.  Most of them do purchase a cheap Chinese HT and thats about all.  Perhaps that't because we don't follow up with them and mentor them properly.  But I think the ARRL likes the volume but so far they have not convinced them to join.  They may yet have some value if the ARRL can contact most of them and convince them to write their congressmen to pass what ever agenda the league is pushing.  Whan it comes to the millenials, they don't have any $ left over for ham radio after they pay their phone bill.
Art
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ND6M
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Posts: 568




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« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2017, 07:47:32 AM »

Well, quite frankly, there isn't much on the TECH element that can't be learned in one day.

After all, it is an entry level license.
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KD7YIM
Member

Posts: 2




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« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2017, 01:03:18 PM »

I've taught about 15 or 20 one day fast classes and have used the Gordon West material on all but one them, I much prefer the his material+on-line practice tests.  It's easier for beginners. 

The ARRL material is dense, dull, dry and reads like a textbook so it's hard to learn from.  I found it tough to use when I originally got my license and I had some electronics/radio background. 

It's a technical hobby but don't kill off the starters by making it too technical.  Many people want the license for utility uses such as off-road, public service etc etc and that's fine!   Some of those people will move up the ladder.  Some of them will stay Techs and that's fine also. 
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