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Author Topic: Surge protection for a washing machine  (Read 14288 times)
WB4IVF
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Posts: 114




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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2017, 04:44:27 AM »

Regarding Joule ratings, here’s an extract from How to Protect Your House and Its Contents from Lightning - IEEE Guide for Surge Protection of Equipment Connected to AC Power and Communication Circuits:

“Some SPDs may claim a “Joule rating” in addition to surge current and clamping voltage ratings. This can lead to some confusion. Joules (J) are a unit of energy (Joules = current x voltage x time), and the Joule rating is intended to be an indication of how energetic an electrical surge the protector can withstand without damage. If two SPDs have the same clamping voltage and are tested using the same waveform, then Joule ratings can show that one device can handle more energy (larger surges) than the other device. However, there is no simple way to compare two devices using different waveforms. There are no standardized test protocols to establish Joule ratings. Also, SPDs with similar surge current ratings may claim very different Joule ratings if they are based on two different technologies. It is usually better to compare the clamping voltage and surge current ratings using the same waveform than to rely on the relative Joule ratings.”

“Due to the difficulty in comparing Joule ratings, many companies no longer publish this number. Most standards written recently in the surge protection industry either warn of the possible misuse of Joule ratings or, by omission, do not recommend the use of Joule ratings.”

This publication contains excellent information on the effectiveness of lightning protection strategies and different types of protective devices, and clears up a lot of common misconceptions.  It can be found on several sites, including:

http://lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/ieee_guide.html

Another good resource is W8JI’s site:

https://www.w8ji.com/lightning.htm
https://www.w8ji.com/station_ground.htm

Howard
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KD0REQ
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Posts: 2036




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« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2017, 05:18:52 PM »

code says all grounding inside the house must terminate at the buss in the entrance panel.  which then should ideally be grounded on opposite sides of the house.

sometimes you have to buy a new control board, I had to replace the one in my oven for no discernable good reason. if you can get a plug-in surge arrestor for your gollywog computerized appliance, do so.
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KI7LGC
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Posts: 10




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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2017, 03:25:35 PM »

I've seen surge protecting circuit breakers before. Maybe something like this would work well?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-20-Amp-6-5-in-Whole-House-Surge-Protected-Circuit-Breaker-QSA2020SPDP/202562776
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WB4SPT
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Posts: 521




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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2017, 06:06:23 AM »

I have a 2 year old nice GE washer that got hit several months ago. We had an almost direct lightning hit at the house. It vaporized my 10 meter vertical and a few CFL light bulbs in the house and killed the board in the washer. Believe it or not my warranty would not cover the new board because it was a lightning struck. Luckley  my local parts supplier had one fo 90 bucks and I fixed it myself.
 Now I use a good Triplite Isobar and just keep it switched off when not in use and switch it on when I want to wash. Worked out good so far. The isobars are rather expensive but had some extras at work.. Good luck,  73. Jim. W5JJG

I had the same experience.   My dipole took a direct hit.  The electronic washer machine was on a dedicated triplite and survived fine.  In the load center I had a whole house surge protector.  You do NOT want to independantly ground the washer to some local ground rod; counterproductive.   To those contemplating series L elements, model these on Spice first.  I have, and you can easily generate larger than initial pulse magnitudes as the L and downstream C elements ring with very high peak values.  My professional work is 50% time spent on electronic surge protection for outside equip. 
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SWMAN
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Posts: 1112




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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2017, 09:27:54 AM »

SPT,  I just recently installed an Eaton whole house surge protector in my main panel. With you experience in this field, I hope I made the right decision. It is the unit with the 2 green lights that show that protection is on. It cost around 120 bucks from an electrical supplier.  Thanks, Jim W5JJG
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WB4SPT
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Posts: 521




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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2017, 03:23:29 PM »

SPT,  I just recently installed an Eaton whole house surge protector in my main panel. With you experience in this field, I hope I made the right decision. It is the unit with the 2 green lights that show that protection is on. It cost around 120 bucks from an electrical supplier.  Thanks, Jim W5JJG

On this topic.  don't forget to protect the garage door openers.  I had 3 failures there due to my hit.  Chamberlain makes inexpensive point of use suppressors for the openers.   It handles both the mains and the sensor wiring.  It's best too to bond the door rails/tracks to the motor unit.   Otherwise very high differential voltages can result with a hit. 
Same with flat screen TV's.  Use point of use receptacles that have built-in surge protection.
More difficult are the 240V appliances that have gone electronic;  dryers, ovens, ranges, AC units.  I haven't done anything specifically for those, other than the whole house suppressor, which is a bit far away to really be effective. 
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NN4X
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Posts: 51




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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2017, 11:38:39 AM »

You may want to look at this Leviton product: http://www.leviton.com/en/products/5380-gy

I have them on my washing machine, my garage door openers, my refrigerator, and several other outlets, including the shack.  It has surge suppression as well as RFI suppression built-in.

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KE2KB
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Posts: 653




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« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2017, 11:17:09 AM »

Grounding the washer to an outside ground rod just might create a ground loop, and a better path THROUGH the washer, and its electronics, for a lightning induced surge. grounding and isolation is best done before the equipment, in my opinion.

Pete
That's good advice. I am not going to run a conductor between the washer and the antenna ground rod. So far, the NewPoint surge suppressor is working well. A bit bulky, but not an issue. The whole-house protection is something I installed several years ago when I realized that it was not possible to protect built-in appliances like the dishwasher and the oven (which is gas, but has electronic controls).
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WB4SPT
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Posts: 521




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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2017, 07:09:16 AM »

You may want to look at this Leviton product: http://www.leviton.com/en/products/5380-gy

I have them on my washing machine, my garage door openers, my refrigerator, and several other outlets, including the shack.  It has surge suppression as well as RFI suppression built-in.



Good tip.  I didn't realize they had recepts with built-in RF filters. 
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K8BYP
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Posts: 109




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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2017, 02:09:54 PM »

 Have done engineering in this field (industrial arc and transient suppression).

As you have figured out, it is not enough to have whole-house OR "at the load" suppression.

It takes both. The whole house unit will clamp down higher voltage transients than the load suppressor. At the load suppressor, it clamps more closely to nominal line voltage. Without both installed,
there is a range of voltages that are not covered by either suppressor. There ends up being a range of line voltages from roughly 140 up to 250VAC that arent covered without using both devices.

"My thinking is that most of the surge protection devices available to the consumer are simple devices that clamp voltage at some designated level; sending over-voltage (spike) current to ground via the ground conductor."

Or up from ground..Have a Ham here who learned that the hard way. His shack and antenna layout are nicely grounded by NEC, and hes a highly experienced EE, and a transient came UP, followed his ground wire into the shack. BANG!

Load suppressors are normally across L1 and N. There is no such thing as "ground wire", since:

1. As someone else noticed, too long a distance back to the breaker panel
2. Transients can come UP from the ground on their way up to meet the down-going lightning strike.
3. Both the Neutral and "ground" conductors in the house wiring go to the same terminal, there is no electrical difference.

The concept of "ground wire" is an old thing from back when TVs and Appliances had AC line derived power supplies (aka "hot chassis") which could present a shock hazard to a User if the Neutral line opened. If it did, the entire chassis was "hot" with 110VAC from L1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIuao-yRP4s 3:00 (sorry, cant resist)

Short answer, theres no where TO send it to. Lightning does whatever it pleases. Unplug the washer and dryer when not in use.

One of the best ways to protect against high speed transients is to tie a KNOT in the conductor. Ive seen one blown apart. That raises the inductance in the wire.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 02:16:57 PM by K8BYP » Logged
WB4SPT
Member

Posts: 521




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« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2017, 06:26:54 AM »



One of the best ways to protect against high speed transients is to tie a KNOT in the conductor. Ive seen one blown apart. That raises the inductance in the wire.

I'm going to try that one.   But, my surge generator only goes to 5kV and 2500A. 
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