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Author Topic: EMP from North Korea's nuke over the Pacific, would it damage radios?  (Read 9103 times)
WA2ISE
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Posts: 1057




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« on: September 23, 2017, 01:33:19 PM »

Heard that nuke bombs can produce electromagnitic pulses(?) that can fry the front ends of radios.  I don't know if this is just an urban legend, or if it's a real problem (assuming N Korea actually launches an H bomb and blows it up over the Pacific, as they mentioned thinking of doing...).  Many other problems this would cause would be far more serious, like all that radioactive crap let loose in the air.  Power companies might not handle it well, either.  (I'm talking about places far enough away that are not vaporized by a direct hit).  Cars' electronics might not like it either.  Even if you kept an old 2m HT stashed away in a metal sealed box, you couldn't charge its batteries if the power company and your car are dead...  

I doubt that NK would actually do it,  Huh  



Maybe make sure your tinfoil hats are well grounded.   Grin  
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 01:35:36 PM by WA2ISE » Logged
W1VT
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Posts: 2530




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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 03:10:55 PM »

http://www.arrl.org/lightning-protection
There is a 4 part series that discusses the physics involved, as well as mitigation strategies, on the ARRL's Lightning Protection Web Page.
Electromagnetic Pulse and the Radio Amateur - Part 1
QST August 1986, pp. 15-20, 36
Will your station survive the effects of lightning strikes ........
Electromagnetic Pulse and the Radio Amateur - Part 2
QST September 1986, pp. 22-26
...testing EMP/transient-protection devices
Electromagnetic Pulse and the Radio Amateur - Part 3
QST October 1986, pp. 38-41
...protectors are connected to Amateur Radio equipment and retested.
Electromagnetic Pulse and the Radio Amateur - Part 4
QST November 1986, pp. 30-34
What can be done to protect an Amateur radio station from lightning......
Feedback: QST February 1987, p. 43
Feedback: QST April 1987, p. 59
The model number of the Siemans spark gap is B1-A350, not BI-A350.
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KC4ZGP
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Posts: 1637




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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 04:51:19 PM »

Rocket Man said he'll detonate an H-bomb over the Pacific ocean.

What is the world waiting for? What will it take now for any country to act?

Here's what I figure, If South Korea and U.S. forces just plowed northwards,

half the North Korean soldiers will not be poised in fire-when-ready position.

Their arms will be straight up...please save us from this ____.

The other half of the North Koran army will holding up the arms of the first half
because they're too weak from starvation to hold up their own arms.

Kraus

« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 04:55:58 PM by KC4ZGP » Logged
K0UA
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Posts: 1468




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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 05:37:07 PM »

Heard that nuke bombs can produce electromagnitic pulses(?) that can fry the front ends of radios.  I don't know if this is just an urban legend, or if it's a real problem (assuming N Korea actually launches an H bomb and blows it up over the Pacific, as they mentioned thinking of doing...).  Many other problems this would cause would be far more serious, like all that radioactive crap let loose in the air.  Power companies might not handle it well, either.  (I'm talking about places far enough away that are not vaporized by a direct hit).  Cars' electronics might not like it either.  Even if you kept an old 2m HT stashed away in a metal sealed box, you couldn't charge its batteries if the power company and your car are dead...  

I doubt that NK would actually do it,  Huh  



Maybe make sure your tinfoil hats are well grounded.   Grin  


I reckon you haven't heard of Starfish Prime?  In 1962?  EMP is real.  And I would't trust NK with a firecracker.
Also nuclear weapons can be "tailored" to produce more EMP.  EMP could be more dangerous than the blast itself and kill far more people over time.  No electricity means no infrastructure.  Back to the 1800's.  How many of us can live back in the 1800's.  Some, but not all.

You can read about Starfish Prime here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime

Starfish Prime caused an electromagnetic pulse (EMP), which was far larger than expected, so much larger that it drove much of the instrumentation off scale, causing great difficulty in getting accurate measurements. The Starfish Prime electromagnetic pulse also made those effects known to the public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii, about 1,445 kilometres (898 mi) away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 streetlights,[6] setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link. The EMP damage to the microwave link shut down telephone calls from Kauai to the other Hawaiian islands

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K0UA
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Posts: 1468




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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 05:49:28 PM »

Oh, by the way, you don't need a nuclear bomb to make an EMP generator either.  Nope, its pretty easy.  But you do need the ability to launch things high up.  Hmm  lets see NK already has that ability. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_pumped_flux_compression_generator
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KB2WIG
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Posts: 361




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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 07:42:31 PM »



This guy can't produce a viable nuke, so don't worry about an H bomb.

As far as the "EMP" problem, please consider the inverse square law.

More than likely, with more saber rattling from N.K., Japan will produce their own atomic devise and then tell the Fat mMan, er , the Rocket Man, where to go.

The JA's have reactors, and the expertise to produce their own material.


klc
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K0UA
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Posts: 1468




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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 07:03:21 AM »



This guy can't produce a viable nuke, so don't worry about an H bomb.

As far as the "EMP" problem, please consider the inverse square law.

More than likely, with more saber rattling from N.K., Japan will produce their own atomic devise and then tell the Fat mMan, er , the Rocket Man, where to go.

The JA's have reactors, and the expertise to produce their own material.


klc

Why would you say he can't produce a viable nuke when he has already produced several viable nukes, and possibly already produced an H bomb?  We are not sure on the last one, but most believe the capability to produce an H bomb if not already here is very near.  Don't underestimate the fat kid's and his country's ability to wage war. And while I agree that Japan has the expertise and the means to produce nukes, do they have the will?  The gunfight doesn't' always go the the fastest or even the most accurate.  It often goes to the most willing.  Nuclear warfare may come down to "the most willing".  I don't know if the fat kid is willing or not for sure, but do you want to bet the farm on it? 
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ND6M
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2017, 11:45:13 AM »



This guy can't produce a viable nuke, so don't worry about an H bomb...

Define "nuke"
He already HAS detonated multiple Fission bombs.
I doubt that he has the technology to detonate a Fusion bomb,.......... yet.

I lived in Japan for many years, and I'm of the opinion that they have no desire to become a nuclear bomb capable nation.
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K0UA
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Posts: 1468




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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2017, 01:17:55 PM »



This guy can't produce a viable nuke, so don't worry about an H bomb...

Define "nuke"
He already HAS detonated multiple Fission bombs.
I doubt that he has the technology to detonate a Fusion bomb,.......... yet.

I lived in Japan for many years, and I'm of the opinion that they have no desire to become a nuclear bomb capable nation.

Well, I don't doubt for a moment he either already has detonated an H bomb or will soon. We have constantly since the beginning underestimated the capabilities and the will of NK.  I agree with you that Japan does not have the will to make atomic weapons, even if they have the capability to easily do so.  I also believe while the South Korean military is extremely capable, they are governed now by a pacifist government.  Not a good unified front in standing down the aggressive little fat boy.
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KJ4HVL
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Posts: 76




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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 08:36:46 AM »

EMP induces current into circuits. Many IC's are rated to withstand thousands of volts of ESD. How long of a wire do you need to generate 2KV?

The only items that will be damaged are those with high imedance inputs, and / or very long wires on one side and ground on the other.

The transmission grid is hardened against this (especially north of mason / dixon line) thanks to a better understanding of solar storms. Local distirbution is not.
Most of the other systems that you would be worried about are floating and won't see a large enough field at their locations to cause damage across the case, unless they are within about 60 - 100 miles of the blast, in which case there are other more grave concerns.

Your radio's weakest links will be the long-wire + balun combo many of us use, and the power / control side.
A completely disconnected radio stashed in the corner of your basement is probably fine. In an ammo-can even better. No additional special precautions are required, unless you plan on it going off down the block.
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KC4ZGP
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 10:39:13 AM »


We did WWII backwards. We should have sided with Hitler, crush the Soviet union then crush Hitler.

In the Pacific, side with the Japanese, crush China then crush Japan.

We would own zie verld.

Kraus
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KH6AQ
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Posts: 7718




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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 11:56:37 AM »

MIL-STD-188-125-1 provides design parameters for EMP hardened equipment. Also see MIL-HDBK-423.

The E-field level to design antenna systems to is 50kV/m. http://ema3d.com/high-altitude-electromagnetic-pulse-hemp-emp-simulation/

The question "How long of a wire do you need to generate 2KV?" For an open-circuit monopole the wire length would be 3.7 cm or 1.5 inches.
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AF6LJ
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 11:58:34 AM »


We did WWII backwards. We should have sided with Hitler, crush the Soviet union then crush Hitler.

In the Pacific, side with the Japanese, crush China then crush Japan.

We would own zie verld.

Kraus
I disagree;
We should have stayed out of it, became a refuge for jews from Europe, developed the bomb and nuked anybody who dared cross our borders.
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Take Care
Sue,
AF6LJ
VK2LEE
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Posts: 36


WWW

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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2017, 06:53:13 AM »

Probably if You happened to live in the Pacific, but radiation fallout would be the major problem, I believe.
For those who Don't believe the little fat bloke can or would explode bombs [Nukes??] outside their airspace....
Just Remember that North Korea can easily be seen [or unseen] from the International Space station at night because of the lack of light , as they do NOT have electricity because the Generators don't operate 24 hours a day.  So You have a country with many people starving with their leader spending Millions on Weapons and the armed forces. He seems to be trying to make Himself heard around the world. Who knows what He is thinking??
I also agree that Japan is a pacifist country and don't wish to attack anyone or any country. I believe it against their Law. Self protection only. So. if they have North Korean missiles exploded in their air space.... the self protection part may have to be turned ON...

Lee  VK2LEE
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28 years as VK2LEE - The 1st 3 letter L call ever issued - in 1986 -
K0UA
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Posts: 1468




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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2017, 06:58:38 AM »

MIL-STD-188-125-1 provides design parameters for EMP hardened equipment. Also see MIL-HDBK-423.

The E-field level to design antenna systems to is 50kV/m. http://ema3d.com/high-altitude-electromagnetic-pulse-hemp-emp-simulation/

The question "How long of a wire do you need to generate 2KV?" For an open-circuit monopole the wire length would be 3.7 cm or 1.5 inches.

So If I have this right, it would take a very short piece of wire to develop voltages that would kill an IC , correct?
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