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Author Topic: How to tell an Op to use proper inter-character spacing  (Read 3894 times)
WA7PRC
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2017, 07:04:40 AM »

Best thing to do is just spin the VFO.  Leave him wondering where you went.  If enough people do that, he will get the message loud and clear that he is unpleasant to communicate with.
Q: Rhetorically, why should I give-up the frequency I've been running (in a contest, in a crowded sub-band) to someone because he can't send decipherable Morse?
A: I shouldn't. Bad Morse should no more be rewarded than bad operating.

vy 73 es gl,
Bryan WA7PRC
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W3TTT
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2017, 01:49:11 PM »

Best thing to do is just spin the VFO.  Leave him wondering where you went.  If enough people do that, he will get the message loud and clear ...

There are hams, and there are dense hams.  "Dense" is a personality trait possessed by certain Amateur Radio operators.   (BTW there are a few on this blog).   Anyway, said personality type would be the type to (a) not get the message unless told directly, and (b) send badly.  Or, so it seems.  This type is amazingly incapable of understanding the feelings of others. 

I conclude that if a ham is sending badly, he should be made aware. 
Explicitly. 

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VK5EEE
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2017, 03:57:35 PM »

Which can always be done easily and without problem with 3 letters: QSD
Trying to explain to a ham why his sending is not OK may in some cases be counter productive since it may be you that is the problem, e.g. a five to one dit to dah ratio on a bug by experienced bug operators is deliberate, and it would not make for an easy QSO if the bug operator had to try to explain that on air when it is impossible to explain it to the uninitiated even on a forum with 10,000 words  Grin

Define "sending badly" please, what percentage variation from the rather randomly chosen 3.000 dit to dah ratio would that be, on each of the 26 letters and 10 digits for a start, since it also depends on the letter, and in what way would it affect intelligibility?

Also, if the signal is in heavy static, how would you vary your CW from 1:3:3:7 to greatly improve intelligibility?

In rapid QSB, how would you vary your CW to improve intelligibility?

In each case, is that variance 'sending badly' or is it exempt from whatever definition you have come up with? Is this an exact science?
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
N4OI
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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2017, 06:49:35 PM »

Best thing to do is just spin the VFO.  Leave him wondering where you went.  If enough people do that, he will get the message loud and clear ...
There are hams, and there are dense hams.  "Dense" is a personality trait possessed by certain Amateur Radio operators.   (BTW there are a few on this blog).   Anyway, said personality type would be the type to (a) not get the message unless told directly, and (b) send badly.  Or, so it seems.  This type is amazingly incapable of understanding the feelings of others. 

I conclude that if a ham is sending badly, he should be made aware. 
Explicitly. 

I just hope no hams are discouraged by this gibberish...  that includes new hams, old hams and just hams...  It's a hobby, get on the air and make some mistakes with that paddle, key, bug, whatever...  There are those of us who want to work you and will figure it out...

73 dit dit
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KD8IIC
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2017, 09:26:02 PM »

   Well, I don't know of any mind readers here.
   I certainly can't.
   So I will not be able to figure out what someone is saying or trying to say if they cannot say it correctly, legibly.
   It makes NO difference whether it is via CW or Phone.
   Taking time to warm up by sending into a dummy load before air time is a proven best practice. Not hard to do.
   Record your sending and play it back a few days later.
   If you can decipher it then quite likely everybody can as well, so get on the air and make QSO's.
   It is not out of reach to learn proper spacing, rhythm and procedure. Computer trainig and W1AW is available.
   It is not out of reach to use the proper universal phonetics when doing phone modes. There's a published list.
   I work with slow code new ops and rusty ones every time I get on the air and I enjoy the experience.
   If and when there's coaching and constructive advice needed then it should be forthcoming.
   One's "bed-side manner" of the individual doing the coaching is of the utmost importance to be sure.
   
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K8AXW
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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2017, 11:00:36 PM »

The worst offenders are the old timers.  Newbies usually will listen to honest criticism... guys who have been pounding brass for years think they have a great fist and if you can't copy them, then it's YOU!

And among the old timers are the bug operators.  They're the worst and the most difficult to suggest changing anything!
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2017, 11:12:55 PM »

The worst offenders are the old timers.  Newbies usually will listen to honest criticism... guys who have been pounding brass for years think they have a great fist and if you can't copy them, then it's YOU!

And among the old timers are the bug operators.  They're the worst and the most difficult to suggest changing anything!
I prefer to not assume that.
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VK5EEE
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« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2017, 12:11:15 AM »

Yep, take it easy, we who are happy to QSO anyone no matter their fist, are I think the SILENT MAJORITY. We love CW of all flavours  Smiley
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
WA7PRC
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2017, 01:30:51 AM »

Quote
Yep, take it easy, we who are happy to QSO anyone no matter their fist, are I think the SILENT MAJORITY. We love CW of all flavours  Smiley
...even if it's painful to copy.
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GW3OQK
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2017, 01:39:26 AM »

On behalf of the silent majority,
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VK5EEE
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« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2017, 02:59:16 AM »

Quote
Yep, take it easy, we who are happy to QSO anyone no matter their fist, are I think the SILENT MAJORITY. We love CW of all flavours  Smiley
...even if it's painful to copy.
But that's the thing. I don't find any CW painful to copy. I think a Zen state assists greatly when copying CW you find hard e.g. extra dits, irregular beat... perhaps only CW on a keyer with wrong letter combinations joined together, everything else including -13dB CW is rewarding. But I concede that there are many who only enjoy hearing perfect CW at 599 with no QSB, but I think the silent majority are not as fussy as some make out on this forum  Smiley
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
VK5EEE
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« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2017, 03:14:30 AM »

On behalf of the silent majority,
OM Andrew, LP on 30m is now later... so perhaps we can make it again soon if conditions allow. Around the 10116 to 10119 area mostly if free of pile up, and not necessary on a round .000 Hz  Grin random is good, chirp even better, and drift made it interesting too... bring those days back! None of my rigs will chirp...

I'd like to see a MODERN CW rig with knobs for amount of chirp, and Tone Quality from T1 to T9 adjustable. Why not? It's all STILL legal (shhhhh!!!! before they ban it and even ban non-channelized CW frequencies!)
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
WA7PRC
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« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2017, 03:21:59 AM »

Quote
Quote
Yep, take it easy, we who are happy to QSO anyone no matter their fist, are I think the SILENT MAJORITY. We love CW of all flavours  Smiley
...even if it's painful to copy.
But that's the thing. I don't find any CW painful to copy. I think a Zen state assists greatly when copying CW you find hard e.g. extra dits, irregular beat... perhaps only CW on a keyer with wrong letter combinations joined together, everything else including -13dB CW is rewarding. But I concede that there are many who only enjoy hearing perfect CW at 599 with no QSB, but I think the silent majority are not as fussy as some make out on this forum  Smiley
Wow. Just... WOW.
So MUCH assumption...
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KD8IIC
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« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2017, 05:43:29 AM »

  Not sure the majority of the postings reflect any one of us being overly "fussy"...
  The topic was indeed on the table for discussion and as such some of us had to vent.
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VK5EEE
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« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2017, 05:49:37 AM »

No problemo OM Lane Smiley
It DOES help to vent here on Eham...
what is missing is a LIKE button for posts so one can signal likes to replies!
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
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