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Author Topic: How to tell an Op to use proper inter-character spacing  (Read 4059 times)
AA4OO
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« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2017, 06:18:06 AM »

  Hello Again Rich, Worked you Sunday on 40m....
. . .
Hello Lane.  Sorry I had to cut that QSO short last Sunday. I had severe XYL QRM telling me we were late to go somewhere. 

I look forward to picking up the conversation again on-air.

Richard AA4OO
http://hamradioqrp.com
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VK5EEE
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« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2017, 06:57:01 AM »

Richard AA4OO your site is really great content, thank you!
http://www.hamradioqrp.com/

Can I request on your very helpful CW Abbreviations Page maybe you can add there the RST table with description of each as RST is often misunderstood, could be helpful to many.

I am getting back into QRP with the QCX -- I blew mine up after just couple days, when my doublet once again converted itself via the wind into an inverted L. So I have to wait for a 74ACT00N chip to arrive, having replaced the massive BS170 finals which cost all of $4.

I had committed the crime of leaving it on WSPR while at other end of the house, which is TX down 2 minutes, and by the time the fried transistor smell had reached me, it was all far too late...

Looking forward to trying again soon. Single band 30m rig. Not sure the output power, possibly around 3W. Got into USA and Timor easily on CW and into Europe on WSPR with just 1W (off 9V).

My dipole is for Europe/Asia though, I don't currently have an antenna here for USA, so am up to 12dB down in your direction.
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
K8AXW
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« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2017, 09:55:17 AM »

Quote
So MUCH assumption...

Not assumption but observation!  I've probably copied and have attempted to copy as many crummy fists as anyone here on eHam.  I have exchanged the expected information and have had extended QSOs with hams with crummy fists. 

Have I enjoyed these QSOs.... overall yes!  But it would have been much more enjoyable if the fists were better. 

Anyone who works a crummy fisted operator without gnashing their teeth is lying!  Now THAT is an assumption.  Roll Eyes

 
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KB5ZCR
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« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2017, 12:58:52 PM »

I'm new to CW. I've only had 30 CW contacts and all have been in the last 3 weeks or so (I was absent from HF for 15 yrs or so).
I can copy about 13-15 wpm on my phone app that is sending perfect CW.
I have once asked an operator that was nice enough to QSO with me that I wasn't getting everything he sent because I was new again to CW and his dits were too fast for me to pick out and my ear wasn't good enough to get it all.
This OP was using a bug or cootie and he immediately changed to something (paddle, or straight key, I have no idea), but his sending became a lot clearer and I was able to understand him.
I think that he didn't get mad because I told him that I was new at CW and I just wasn't good enough yet to pick it all up.

This all happened after I got his call and sent him his RST, my QTH, my name, and skcc NR and he was sending his info to me (which I wasn't able to copy). I told him why and explained that I was new and didn't have a trained ear yet. He took no offence and made it easy for me to copy.

An experienced OP may have had no problem copying him, but I sure did.


 
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VK5EEE
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« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2017, 06:15:24 PM »

I'm new to CW. I've only had 30 CW contacts and all have been in the last 3 weeks or so (I was absent from HF for 15 yrs or so).
I can copy about 13-15 wpm on my phone app that is sending perfect CW.
I have once asked an operator that was nice enough to QSO with me that I wasn't getting everything he sent because I was new again to CW and his dits were too fast for me to pick out and my ear wasn't good enough to get it all.
This OP was using a bug or cootie and he immediately changed to something (paddle, or straight key, I have no idea), but his sending became a lot clearer and I was able to understand him.
I think that he didn't get mad because I told him that I was new at CW and I just wasn't good enough yet to pick it all up.

This all happened after I got his call and sent him his RST, my QTH, my name, and skcc NR and he was sending his info to me (which I wasn't able to copy). I told him why and explained that I was new and didn't have a trained ear yet. He took no offence and made it easy for me to copy. An experienced OP may have had no problem copying him, but I sure did.

Beautiful recount of your experience, hope to be hearing more from you on this forum! I agree that that IS the response you'd get from most bug/cootie operators: we CAN GREATLY improve our CW to "standard" i.e. without the accent/swing and slow down, and most of us are very happy to. I also use an electronic keyer daily, and in fact when I'm active I use straight key, bug, cootie and electronic keyer all in the same day or same hour. I CAN send "good" CW on each, I enjoy the freedom a bug/cootie brings and I also enjoy the perfection of the keyer: which of course many keyer ops don't send well due to spacing. I've often been complemented on my good spacing on keyer and told it sounds like computer generated. It SHOULD be if you're really good at it. But if you're NOT good at it don't ever let that prevent you going on air, nor be put off by on-forum comments on poor sending, you'd not get such comments on air, at least should not, it's really against etiquette to send more than "QSD" or "QRS" or, as you have done, explain you are inexperienced and the dits are too fast -- in fact just asking a bug OP to slow down the dits would never be received as offensive.

I'm glad your experience was a positive one. Imagine, there are some who had the misfortune of coming across that rare negative behaviour which put them off CW for years or for life! IF anyone has a bad experience on CW, let me say, that is VERY RARE (unless you count DX Pedo pile ups etc, I'm talking of QSO), and if it does happen, please know that irrespective of YOUR poor fist (everyone had to start somewhere) it is NOT YOUR fault, it is THEIRS. I'm Old School, and probably at the younger end of the CW Op age which now averages 60's to 70's... I'm in 50's. I still remember, and try to live by (NOT ON FORUMS LOL) the values of the CW OP ON AIR: patience, politeness, courtesy, consideration, loyalty, support, encouragement, for example, even if we may slip up now and then, that's the ethics that I believe are included in being a real CW Operator and sets us apart, though amateur radio as a whole USED TO have such great values that would make young people aspire to be a part of this "elite" due the Radio Amateur's Code that used to be lived by!

Now, that is much out the window, and amateur radio (less though CW) is all about LOWERING the standards and PROUD MEMBERSHIP that was offered to those youth who aspired to GREAT THINGS, and it is now about going down to the lowest denominator, e.g. wireless internet modem owners, and turning the oldest radio amateur society on the planet, the Wireless Institute of Australia, into just that, a WIRELESS institute, which in the modern times, means the internet modem: since everyone has one, let's open up membership to everyone who has an internet wireless router since then we have the NUMBERS and hence the MONEY. And out the window with ham radio and what is at the HEART AND SOUL of it: Morse Code, and the values and standards that went (go) with that.

HOWEVER, there is great hope in spite of the trends in AMATEUR RADIO overall, which is in decline as a percentage of the population (I remember when in Germany 1 in every 2000 was a radio ham, and even today in Thailand one in every 1,500 citizens is a radio ham, thanks to the example of the King of Kings, HS1A, SK) but Morse is a RISING percentage of amateurs once again after the decline when the requirement was dropped, even though digital is the shooting star on the rise, SSB is on the wane, and CW is on the SLOW rise. CW will always be around for many reasons some of which I touched on in my 9 issues of CW Today: http://www.vkcw.net/cwtoday

These include that it is the only mode where you can talk with your fingers, text efficiently, using nothing but ear and brain and fingers, the only mode that you can use with one hand at high speed while sitting naked at the table and eating, burping and farting at the same time without causing offense -- please don't let that put you off QSO with me as I usually have my clothes on, at least my underwear -- and I don't usually do ALL of those 3 things during a QSO -- and with the rise again of QRP thanks to SOTA and QCX etc, future is good.

Another thing that points in this direction, is that CW Ops (please anyone who is a CW OP I really think you should STRONGLY consider joining at least ONE or ideally more CW Clubs, to read the material, and show CW is there and in numbers and give your support, such clubs are FISTS, SKCC, CWOPS and there are many others depending on your country, language or interest) recently sent out notification of a  new program aimed at YOUTH, at first only to start in the USA from next year, but recognizing key facts I've been talking about for the past two years:

-- Holding a microphone is NOT the type of photo and image that will get anyone interested in ham radio, it is INFERIOR to the hand held that even cockroaches and rats now carry around with them even in the toilet, a Mobile full-duplex full-function Phone-do-it-all.

-- CW IS the skill, fun, an therapeutic activity which is best aimed to attract radio amateurs, in terms of modes

-- The ability to be self-sufficient in power and communicate via only nature and not any network or grid, even in low power digital modes, or with some training, in human CW

So we've been slow to do something about it, but the growth of CW Club memberships, and the numbers of people returning to CW or starting out in CW, is again on the rise, at least, in SOME parts of the world. In others: Africa, Asia, Latin America, where people lead a full social life and enjoy life, love and food, it is hard to find the NEED for CW, which those of us with the misfortune to live in pathocracies and suffer incarceration in aged concentration camps, social isolation, or a mental asylum where the inmates are in charge, then CW becomes that much more important as it is the only sane thing left to do... along with watch the Tell-Lie-Vision, or follow the orders and whims of the Slave Mistress to do this or that...

So congratulations to all CW Operators who are STILL on air, or coming on air, and do not let anything deter you. It's perhaps never been easier and cheaper, just $49 and an excellent step by step construction manual will give you a single band rig (any band from 80m to 15m currently) with dual VFO, narrow filter, memories, inbuild CW decoder, inbuilt test gear, WSPR, CW, inbuilt keyer, inbuilt straight key, and more: frankly what until now would have cost between 10 and 100 times the price, is now yours for just $49!!!



Anyone who works a crummy fisted operator without gnashing their teeth is lying!  Now THAT is an assumption.  Roll Eyes

Cheesy
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
AA4OO
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2017, 04:57:15 PM »

Richard AA4OO your site is really great content, thank you!
http://www.hamradioqrp.com/

Can I request on your very helpful CW Abbreviations Page maybe you can add there the RST table with description of each as RST is often misunderstood, could be helpful to many.
. . ..
I'm glad the blog is interesting to a CW veteran such as yourself.  I'm a relatively new, young CW operator, compared to most I meet, I started the blog as somewhat of a journal to record what I was learning for myself and other newbies.

Concerning RST reports, that would be a interesting topic  because I think most CW ops only give a 3 or 5 for readability and seem to send their S-meter for signal strength rather than the table suggested by ARRL at http://www.arrl.org/quick-reference-operating-aids

The problem with an S-meter reading is that depending on local noise levels an S2 may be a good signal to the receiver or an S8 may still be in the noise. And some rigs don't present an absolute measurement without regard to preamp or attenuator.  My favorite radio, a TenTec Century/21 doesn't even have a S-meter.

Since I generally operate with my AF gain near max and control the audio with RF gain I give a signal strength report based on how much I have to turn my RF gain UP to copy the station.

This would make for a good separate discussion topic.

Richard AA4OO
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GW3OQK
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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2017, 02:36:40 AM »

Hello Richard
QRM I am being interfered with, from man-made interference
QRN is I am being troubled by static or atmospherics, that is natural interference.

Regarding RST I have found many new operators do not know about chirp and give me a poor tone report. Example T7 instead of T9C. My home brew QRP and WW2 rigs chirp and drift.

Back to inter-character spacing. NAG IS QRTF is typical. (Name is Martin)
73
PDRÜ 
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VK5EEE
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2017, 03:25:35 AM »

 Grin  Grin  Grin

BTW, QRM was designed for Man Made Station interference as far as I know, not LOCAL interference, and of course QRN atmospherics, again, not car ignition noise etc.

It is important to know if the interference is from another station on/near frequency, or static, or, local broadband noise. The amateur radio community sadly has not come up with a code for the latter, which is an increasing problem.

Some use QRM, which I think is incorrect, others use QRN, which is incorrect. Some say LOCAL QRM which is fine and clear, I use "QRML" but that is made up. QRMN maybe too. The best code I found, but which would be useless as no one would understand it, is ZIM.

As far as I remember, it means I am suffering from Industrial or Medical interference. That seems to fit the local junk noise the best. ZIM has a scale 1 to 5. But, who would know what you are talking about? I find it unsatisfying that there isn't a Q code for local noise  Huh
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
WY4J
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« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2017, 01:15:07 PM »

There are many fist out there that are not fun to chat with. Once I made the mistake of telling someone who had been calling CQ for at least an hour that the was creating his own alphabet by joining all the letters in his call into one. He got pissed, I went away.
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VK5EEE
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« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2017, 05:11:48 PM »

There are many fist out there that are not fun to chat with. Once I made the mistake of telling someone who had been calling CQ for at least an hour that the was creating his own alphabet by joining all the letters in his call into one. He got pissed, I went away.
Maybe he got pissed from calling CQ nicely for an hour, then entertained himself by joining his callsign together, ended up unknowingly entertaining you for the next hour, but still no QSO resulted  Grin Try sending VK5EEE especially the 5EEE joined together, great fun, it is just one big VK ERROR. A suitable callsign in so many ways, but far from ideal for DX first-time contacts.
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
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