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Author Topic: The "NEW" Contest Killer  (Read 6975 times)
N2SR
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Posts: 660




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« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2017, 08:44:06 AM »

I am considering writing an application that can do the decoding and send the 5NN 18 TU automatically.
 Wink

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say ALL CW contesters are F-key pushers but it is apparently wide spread. Just listen to the 5NN being sent at double rate.
"Digital CW" should be in its own category.

Are you planning on moving to Central Siberia for the contest?   

You implied that ALL CW contests are F-key pushers.  And now you are backing off your initial comment.  Typical. 

And CW contests are filled with F-key pushing computer operators. No skills required. Why contests then??

It's a feature in most of the contest logging programs to speed up sending the report.   Sort of like writing an application to auto decode CW.   

You can always enter the contest with a crystal controlled radio you built yourself, with a straight key you fabricated yourself, transmission line you fabricated yourself, wire you fabricated yourself.   Also be sure and make the paper and the writing implement you are going to use.   





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If no one is doing it that way, there is a probably a very good reason.
5BWAZ
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Posts: 12




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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2017, 10:09:55 AM »

So...  the reason for my original post was to simply say that after 30+ years of serious contesting that I never thought I would be doing something else during most of a major contest. With the declining sunspots, I found it more fun to actually run Europeans on FT8 from a VERY modest station than bash my head against the wall in WW PH and SS CW struggling for every qso and feeling the pain of being geographically challenged into EU. Those that are concerned about the declining number of stations to work in any given contest need to know that IMO, FT8 could be partially responsible.

Please don't derail this thread. If all you want to do is bash and hate on contesting, start your own thread.
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OZ8AGB
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Posts: 347




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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2017, 10:22:55 AM »

It is called a CW contest not a homebuilt-equipment contest. I am asking a simple question because I really don't understand it. That's all. No bashing.

I think that being able to send the report correctly is part of the skill but it is obviously not required.
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VA3VF
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Posts: 940




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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2017, 04:39:15 PM »

And while sending requires some skills, receiving is a lot more skills dependent. There are software out there to decode CW, but nothing compared to a good op. Very few people use software only to decode CW in a contest, and they sure won't score very high.
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N2SR
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Posts: 660




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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2017, 04:48:12 PM »

It is called a CW contest not a homebuilt-equipment contest. I am asking a simple question because I really don't understand it. That's all. No bashing.

I think that being able to send the report correctly is part of the skill but it is obviously not required.

As I, and others have posted previously, "if you think it's easy, then why don't you get off your high horse, and operate the CQWW CW contest in a few weeks?"   You obviously do think it's easy, since you bashed CW contesters with this:

And CW contests are filled with F-key pushing computer operators. No skills required. Why contests then??

If it's easy, then everyone would do it, and everyone would do well, and there would be no point, would there?  There are thousands of participants who operate contests, who enjoy it in the way that they see fit.  If using a straight key, keyer, memory keyer, or a computer is how they feel they want to push technology, why are you bashing them?  

Many participants are pushing the technology in many ways.  Instead of just saying that contesters are F-key pushing computer operators, you might want to do some reading about how many of them push the limits of their own brain and body by operating two radios at the same time, or designing antenna sytems, filters, stubs, etc to optimize their signals, or write an application that allows control of radios, computers, amplifiers, and other switching control.  




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If no one is doing it that way, there is a probably a very good reason.
KG4NEL
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Posts: 508




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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2017, 06:53:01 AM »

No I just learned it from a couple of top notch contesters here in my country. Big disapointment.

Everyone is free to decide if they like a certain method of operation, but to deny the skill involved is at best, uninformed.

For example, I think traffic nets bore me to tears, but to listen to a skilled net control is to listen to a clinic of skills at work.

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KG4NEL
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Posts: 508




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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2017, 06:54:45 AM »

You can always enter the contest with a crystal controlled radio you built yourself, with a straight key you fabricated yourself, transmission line you fabricated yourself, wire you fabricated yourself.   Also be sure and make the paper and the writing implement you are going to use.

Classic Exchange!  Tongue
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OZ8AGB
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Posts: 347




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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2017, 07:25:32 AM »

Sorry guys. Didn't want to step hard on your toes. I admit my statements were a bit provocative and was intended to start a debate on the subject.
As you figured out I am not a contester although I do like our yearly field day.

I'm out'a here. Happy contesting.  Smiley
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AC4RD
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Posts: 1461




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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2017, 09:16:01 AM »

I think that being able to send the report correctly is part of the skill but it is obviously not required.

"Not required" is what keeps me able to play with the radio.  I've got progressive muscle tremors, even typing is slow and awkward.  I can't send CW with my paddles any more, it comes out gibberish.  If it weren't for "keyboard CW" I'd have to abandon CW--and I'm not ready to do THAT!

"You can have my iambic paddles when you pry them out of my cold dead fingers!"  ;-)
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K3TN
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Posts: 568


WWW

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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2017, 02:47:33 AM »

Like dandelions, this type of thread pops up every year. The SmampFox Contesting Group in South Carolina has an online copy of the AARGH! Frequently Asked Questions list I wrote that was published in the National Contest Journal a while back. You can access the AARGH! FAQ here.

Item 4 is repeated here as a public service:

Isn't {insert latest new technology here} the death of contesting? No, generally new technology is always incorporated in all forms of competition. If you choose not to use any particular new technology, feel free - it is your choice.

73 John K3TN
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John K3TN
K0UA
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Posts: 1464




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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2017, 10:08:23 AM »

If you think contesting only involves mindless button pushing you are sadly mistaking.  It requires true technical skills, true operating skills and true planning skills.  I would say that the contester is the true radio operator.  Everyone else is just an amateur !

Amen and roger that.  If any "true" amateur radio operator thinks contesting is easy, than put your money where you mouth is, and lets see you win one. Any one.  There is room for all aspects of Amateur Radio, including contesting and working piles of DX with FT8 on a wet noodle and a tiny transmitter.
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K3LI
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Posts: 49




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« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2017, 05:36:13 PM »

""If you think contesting only involves mindless button pushing you are sadly mistaking.  It requires true technical skills, true operating skills and true planning skills.  I would say that the contester is the true radio operator.  Everyone else is just an amateur !""


So I take it you are uniformed enough, ignorant enough to think only contesters  are "real" radio operators. Pretty sad on your part.  Some like me, think contesting is about as useless as it gets.  Let see, I can get a zillion dollars, build a contest station that makes K3LR look like 20 watts and a wire and win everything.   That makes me a "real" operator?  How sad for you.
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N3QE
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Posts: 4938




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« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2017, 07:47:51 PM »

Let see, I can get a zillion dollars, build a contest station that makes K3LR look like 20 watts and a wire and win everything.   That makes me a "real" operator?  How sad for you.

I'm not sure you ever spent much time listening to K3LR - especially the phone operators. They are remarkably supreme operators.
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VK5EEE
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Posts: 1178




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« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2017, 02:47:28 AM »

And CW contests are filled with F-key pushing computer operators.
Indeed they are. To win a CW contest, you will need at least some degree of those. Which is why it would be more interesting if there was also a category for CW without any memory keys, or even just mechanical keys. But I think there are some such contests.

No skills required.
As explained and accepted in later comments below, there are certainly skills required. Especially listening skills.

Why contests then??
Some people love the competitive nature, or the group cooperation as a team, or pushing themselves and their equipment to the limit. It's not my idea at least at this age, to stay awake for most of 48 hours using a computer to log, macros to push, but, if the contest is short, or of a different type that shows up skills I am good at myself e.g. copying messages accurately, then I'm interested. There ARE lots of different types of contests, and contesting is no doubt a good thing for amateur radio, and different types of contests.

That said, many of the major contests in general appear to need a lot of improvement, such as having a genuine CW category that rules out any Digital CW, use of decoders (e.g. this will become a problem in future: an ENTIRE contest of multiple TX can run the entire contest from finding frequency, search and pounce, calling, logging, everything, WITHOUT any operator while the "operator" i.e. USER simply is off fishing, having coffee, watching the tell-lie-vision. Perhaps at that point they will finally acknowledge a "DCW" category.

Another problem, is that contesters really should be considerate to OTHER users of the bands on a weekend. It is not enough to simply say "well you have the WARC bands". There should be at least respect to give the QRP frequencies a berth, and indeed, contest free segments, e.g. above 14059 and below 14010 should be contest free, taking 20m as an example. So that those wanting to work DX can do so down the bottom 10kHz and those wanting to have QSO, QRP or QRS can use the top 10kHz. WHY NOT. CW is also allowed in the SSB section, so during a major CW contest there could be a PART of the shared SSB section also used for the CW contest.

I have a lot more respect for contests even in their current often-inconsiderate form for non-contesters than "DX unspecified and thus unlimited split" because those DX Pedos also sometimes wreck the WARC bands on a contest weekend, and unlike contesters do not occupy a bandwidth of 50 Hz per station, on a CLEAR frequency (no contester will sit on a used frequency as the QRM wills slow them down) -- and CW contesters acknowledge the fact and make use of it that CW is less than 50Hz wide, so they are happy to make full use of the spectrum instead of all being a rediculous 1000 Hz apart.

DX Pedos on the other hand occupy upwards of 30 kHz PER DX Pedo do not listen on their own frequency, AND the DX Pedo demands a full 1000 Hz exclusion zone around their signal -- at least, the DX Pedo Philes chasing the Pedo do, many of which are using decoders and remote internet mobile apps and remote stations with big time lag -- something no contester would do or they'd simply fail.

Interesting discussion and thanks to OZ8AGB for getting it rolling.]

As to original topic, FT8 I don't see how it will be a contest killer, just as it will not be a CW killer. It has its uses and is not for everyone or all the time. Like any other mode. Some advantages, and many disadvantages.
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
N3QE
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Posts: 4938




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« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2017, 03:51:11 AM »

Which is why it would be more interesting if there was also a category for CW without any memory keys, or even just mechanical keys. But I think there are some such contests.

Here in NA, we have "Straight Key Night", and there are a variety of events )like NAQCC sprint) where there is a multiplier bonus for using a straight key or hand paddle. There are also other ( SKCC  WES ) events that either require or strongly encourage straight keys.

http://www.arrl.org/straight-key-night

http://naqcc.info/sprint_rules.html

http://www.skccgroup.com/operating_activities/weekend_sprintathon/
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