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Author Topic: Wire Antenna mounted against side of house?  (Read 5124 times)
KG4FXG
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Posts: 9




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« on: November 09, 2017, 08:15:56 AM »

Could I mount antenna (Dipole, or End-Fed) against the house?  Two Story home three sides are HardiePlank with a brick front.

Currently I use dipoles in the attic.  (Attic antennas are 80 meters one homemade the other Windom Shorty)  Just curious if I got something outside if there might be an improvement.  I only operate CW.  HOA is always a problem.  Lot is flat.  I have one tree in back.  Shack in front corner of house.  Station is grounded with eight foot ground rod.  Have to keep any wires away from yard service that mows grass.  No way to get on roof at my age or reach eaves.  At best I could climb latter leaning against house. 

Looking to work 20-40 meters but occasionally do 80 meters.

No deck in back yard just small patio not used. 

Thoughts? 


Thanks
Bill
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WB6BYU
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 10:08:36 AM »

Yes, you can install a wire against the wall.

How well it works will depend on a lot of factors.  Stucco siding is particular bad, as it contains
a layer of wire mesh.  Brick can be lossy, especially when wet, but if it is just a facade then
it may work well enough.

I've had best results with under the eaves or on the roof (though that depends on the roof
material.)

Do you put up Christmas lights?  That's a great excuse to hire a young kid (or borrow one from
the local radio club if have any) and have them put hooks under your eaves, ostensibly for
seasonal decorations, but really to string a wire around the house for a loop.
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N3HEE
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 12:21:42 PM »

I think a loop tucked up under the eaves is a better idea.  Bring the ends into the attic to a remote tuner and run coax to shack or feed directly with open wire line to 1:1 balun in the shack.  If you cant do that then the dipoles in the attic will be best.
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Joe
N3HEE
CW Academy Advisor (Level II)
KG4FXG
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 04:14:03 AM »

Thanks all for the reply.  Maybe the dipoles in the attic are not that bad.  Got 589 to Cuba the other day.  Just for fun I might build my own random wire and balun to test against the dipoles.  I have worked many countries on the dipoles, I don't normally chase DX.  Only CW mostly ragchew. 

So basically the take away, run coax out side to play with wire.  Unless I can do a loop or something more substantial outside, I won't out perform the attic dipoles.  After all these are wire antennas and one outside will not operate like a three element beam.  I might notice a little difference (maybe).  But an outside wire does not equate to turning on 1 KW. 

In a months time I fill the paper log sheet, yes still using paper logs.  So I can't complain, I make contains even if the antennas are not at the best location.  And it is still fun.

Thanks
Bill
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KG4RUL
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 05:58:35 AM »

But do remember to calculate the amount of RF exposure presented by your antenna system: https://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet65/oet65.pdf
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K4FMH
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 08:01:59 AM »

I agree! Mine is put just 1" underneath the architectural shingles. There's a wooden trim that lifts the shingle edges from the plywood underneath leaving a space for #14 THN wire. Both ends of my mostly horizontal loop enter into my attic for connection to a coil, etc.

73 K4FMH

I think a loop tucked up under the eaves is a better idea.  Bring the ends into the attic to a remote tuner and run coax to shack or feed directly with open wire line to 1:1 balun in the shack.  If you cant do that then the dipoles in the attic will be best.
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KG4FXG
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 08:56:06 AM »

The XYL had the best answer.  Big tree in back yard.  Forget ladder.  Go to second floor open window start there with antenna to tree.  Bring antenna back to another window on the second floor and you have a V Shaped antenna at least 40 feet up and no ladder.  Why didn't I think of that?  She is also a ham.  House is two story but very tall.  Can get close to roof this way. 

Was thinking about trying the EFHW-8010 from MyAntennas.  If I do something in a V shaped I could do 80 Meters and not have to settle for the 40 meter one.  I will measure with my feet just to check.  The HOA is not all that active here.  Paint the house the wrong color watch out but other than that a thin wire outside should not be an issue.  And I don't think I need to use those fiberglass push up poles or fishing poles but that would have been another option. 

I don't have lots of time, work for the railroad and up at 3AM home by 4:30PM but bed is early.  Office job.  I practice CW when work is slow LCWO.  Mostly upload files at 22 WPM.  All I want to do is get better at CW.  Maybe do more QRP. 

In the end maybe I will find I can't out perform the attic dipole?  I did make a nice solid contact to Aruba last night on 20M. 

Thanks
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K5LXP
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 04:18:11 PM »

If the "V" is very sharp, it can have wave cancellation making it no more effective than just a wire straight out to the tree.  As either a straight wire or a V, I would definitely give it a try.  Even if it's no "better" than the attic antenna, it will have less coupling to wiring and metal in the structure that you have with an attic antenna.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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KG4FXG
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 02:27:03 AM »

Mark

Very good point.  So the house is easy to attach the antenna to.  The tree not so much.  It is tall and lots of leaves, lots of branches.  Not easy to climb or get close to as so many small branches.  It is on the back of the lot that backs up to another neighborhood.

In other words, if you use a slingshot to fire over the tree good chance it will go through the neighbors window!  Neighborhood behind much smaller lots so end of property drops down a small hill but homes close as their back yard not deep like mine.  And mine is only 70 feet from the house.

So if I want to run a long wire 131 feet.  I can start at the house and go to the tree.  Then right angle across the back and turn again toward the house.  Basically three sides of a rectangle.  I have a smaller tree in the other corner of the lot.

Should you not run the actual antenna wire through the tree?  So then I am thinking of pulley's.  Or, what about two fiberglass telescopic masks?  Anchor them if possible close to the trees?

Thanks
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KD8IIC
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 08:32:38 AM »

 Look at k3wwp web page at his random wire he uses, his goes all over in his house then outside.
 Through, into on three won't much matter unless you're more into perfection than operating.
 It won't be high enough to be directional either.
 Random wires work well even QRP, I work many every week CW.
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KD8IIC
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 08:34:05 AM »

 Tree not three.
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KG4FXG
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 09:50:31 AM »

Thanks, will check that out as I emailed John about something else the other day.  The only perfection is keeping them away from the yard guy.  Will be interesting to see how this compared to my Attic Dipole. 
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K5LXP
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 10:17:53 AM »

I've put a lot of wires in trees and generally it works well, sometimes exceptional.  I use a pneumatic launcher and my technique is to shoot the line over/through the tree towards  the feedpoint.  Attach the antenna to the line and pull it up.  Something like a center fed antenna you shoot 2 lines over 2 trees toward the center, attach the wires and when you hoist it up the feedline goes up with them.

As far as over or through the tree that depends on what the goal is.  I've never had a tuning problem with the antenna stretched over the crown touching leaves and branches.   What does happen though over time is the wire or cord will fatigue or fray, so expect that they won't stay up forever.  Not a bad tradeoff though compared to the cost and effort to put up an antenna support.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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KL7CW
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 12:58:34 PM »

It is very hard to predict which of the ideas will be best, you will just need to try and compare them.  I think a wire in or to your tree would be worth a try.  When I operate portable, sometimes I carry a 31 ft Jackite pole in my car.  Usually I just throw a wire up in a tree.  Occasionally I erect the 31 ft pole.  At other times in crowded campgrounds or yards, I simply use my pole to hang a thin insulated wire on or through a tree or trees.  If I stand on a picnic table I can lay a wire over at least a 35 ft high branch. 
It is possible your attic antenna may be better on some bands for TX, but often antennas in or very near a house will have a high RX noise level, so possibly a wire further away from your house will be better for RX and may give you some advantage on TX...like possibly 80 or 160 meters.
One more idea...I operate portable QRP often from the US, the UK and Europe.....Most of the time I do not even bother setting up in an urban yard, but walk to the nearest park, trail, etc. and throw a wire up in a tree, or borrow a lawn chair, clipboard, and possibly a fishing pole from a grandchild, and have a great time on CW, QRP for many hours.  Sometimes even at night or in the winter occasionally even in Norway and Alaska.  Very low noise on RX and better antenna possibilities.
       Just ideas to think about.  Sitting in the Arizona sun at 110 degrees, or shivering outside in artic Norway may not be your cup of tea.
                Rick   KL7CW   Palmer, Alaska
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KG4FXG
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 03:42:23 AM »

Outside is good, grew up in IL with snowmobiles.  I do have some noise level issues.  And I like the thought of operating portable.  You tube video shows using 5 gallon buckets and painter pole to set up antennas.  Just interesting but much depends on location.  Everyone has their own challenges based on location.

More permanent.  Fiberglass more portable. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLHkPq57xOM
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