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Author Topic: The Icom IC-7610 USA price is $4,000  (Read 12760 times)
KENNETH
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Posts: 96




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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2017, 08:02:59 AM »

How do you define worst Stan?. Thanks in advance.
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N2DTS
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Posts: 748




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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2017, 08:05:15 AM »

My new 7300 cost $1200.00 with no tax or shipping at HRO.
Three would cost $3600.00 without any bulk discount....

Not saying three 7300's would be as good as a 7610, but....
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N6YFM
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Posts: 517




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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2017, 09:19:19 AM »

My new 7300 cost $1200.00 with no tax or shipping at HRO.
Three would cost $3600.00 without any bulk discount....

Not saying three 7300's would be as good as a 7610, but....


But I don't get the logic with all the people comparing 3 times  IC-7300?
I *DO* understand that all of us were expecting approx $3500, and are mildly annoyed at $4,000.
But the multiplier thing with the IC-7300 makes no sense.
You can apply that to any radio or any object;

I can get 3 Ford Escape base models for the price of 1 Saleen Mustang.  Both fine cars.
I can get 3 Yaesu FT-DX3000's for the price of one Flex 6700.  Both fine rigs.
I can get 3 Tesla's for the price of your Ferrari.

Yes, but, um, if I wanted a Ferrari in the first place, why do I care about your
3 Tesla's?   Or, are all of us (me too) simply surprised at the large $4,000 number, and
using K-6 "math with object pictures" to show that we all understand the number?  :-)

Just sayin'
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 2801




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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 09:21:44 AM »

How do you define worst Stan?. Thanks in advance.

WORST

1.Promises from Flexradio that were not met.

2. Sent Radio back for spur fix, asked for radio to be checked for Factory Performance. Radio was returned with two cables switched to wrong places and RX inoperative. Was told to send radio back to Flexradio at my expense.

3. Was told over and over my computer was part of the problem, in spite of having the latest greatest and DPC free (  Wink ) computer available. Had to buy $100 worth of Ferrites to cure RFI in shack that I never had before or since I got rid of the Flex.

4. Kicked off (BANNED) from Flexradio Customer forum for posting Facts that should not be posted publicly.

5 Owned the Flex 5K for only 11 months. I could not take it any longer. Lost lots of $$$ but it was worth every dollar to get rid of that P.O.S.

6. I was Ridiculed for years because I had the balls to tell and post publicly the real Truth about Flexradios and the attitude that the Company and Flexradio Owners use on customers, especially those customers who fail to have a coming to Jesus moment when they buy a Flexradio.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

WORST, yeah there is lots more I could say but the old time eHamers have read it all before.  Cheesy

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 09:29:00 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
HAMSTUDY
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Posts: 419




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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 09:28:37 AM »

I would love to be a fly on the wall at Icom's HQ...

73 de WX0V

The Icom pricing meeting probably went something like this:

7610 Product Line Manager:  “We signaled to the market that the 7610 might be in the mid to lower $3k range and at $3k it’s still about 3x the 7300.  So let’s keep the price in the mid $3k range, but not any higher, and we'll sell a bunch.”

Overall Product Family Manager:  “We can always lower the price of the 7610 (or any model) but it’s very hard to raise a price, so let’s start at $4k and preserve our profit margin.   We want to be a good competitor and not harm our own marketplace.  If we lower prices too fast that could cause some of our competitors to make desperate price reductions.  We don't want a price war.  We want good volume and good margins.”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “But setting the price at $4k will disappoint some our potential 7610 customers including some of our pre-order customers; we might lose some of those orders.”

Overall Product Family Manager:  “People who can afford the 7610 and really want one will still buy one.  But if someone wants to buy a new radio and they can’t justify the price of a 7610, what are they going to buy?”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “A 7300?”

Overall Product Family Manager:  “Yes, in many or most cases anyone who has been waiting for the 7610 and who still doesn’t have a 7300 will buy a 7300 if they can't afford or justify a 7610.  In other words, why should we compete with ourselves?  If someone buying a new radio can’t justify the 7610 price and they want a new radio, they will buy a 7300 more often than not.  After we announce the 7610's starting price the 7300 is going to look even better to potential new customers, if that's possible.” (smiles)

Overall Product Family Manager:  “And, just to be clear, what will an existing 7300 customer do if they can’t afford or justify a 7610?”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “Keep their 7300 and be happy with the great value it provides. I suppose.”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “But, what if they buy a Flex?”

Overall Product Family Manager:  “If someone really wants a Flex instead of a 7610 or a 7300, or in addition to a 7300, they are going to buy a Flex anyway.  And if it turns out that new Flex models are really taking potential 7610 customers away from us we can always lower the price on the 7610.  In the meantime we won’t have to worry about quite as many 7300 owners dumping their 7300’s into the used market which would put pressure on the sales of new 7300s.  We are currently substantially in control of the market - why put needless pressure on ourselves?  So are we all in agreement?”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “I guess” (shrugs)

7300 Product Line Manager:  “Sounds like a good plan to me” (smiles)

Overall Product Family Manager:  “Don’t look so glum 7610 Product Manager.  You will be able to lower the price on the 7610 as needed.  By this time next year if not sooner the 7610 will be a $3k radio if Flex shows we need to make such a price reduction.  And by the time the 7610 drops below $3k and the 7300 approaches $999 we will introduce the 7300 II and the 7610 II to reset prices.  Flex is a fine competitor that we admire from a distance but Icom is a much larger competitor and we need both volume and margin to successfully operate our business.  7300 Product Manager, we will charge the drinks after the meeting to your product line."
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2801




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« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2017, 09:35:46 AM »

I live in the USA. Companies, any Company can and will price the products according to what the market will bear. It is the American way. It is called free enterprise.

Customers can and will buy these products - - or not..

It is called freedom of choice and I like it...

No one here on eham cares about your (or my) opinion of prices. Opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has one and they ALL stink except yours..

LMAO
Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 09:38:10 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
K0UA
Member

Posts: 1465




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« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2017, 10:01:55 AM »

I would love to be a fly on the wall at Icom's HQ...

73 de WX0V

The Icom pricing meeting probably went something like this:

7610 Product Line Manager:  “We signaled to the market that the 7610 might be in the mid to lower $3k range and at $3k it’s still about 3x the 7300.  So let’s keep the price in the mid $3k range, but not any higher, and we'll sell a bunch.”

Overall Product Family Manager:  “We can always lower the price of the 7610 (or any model) but it’s very hard to raise a price, so let’s start at $4k and preserve our profit margin.   We want to be a good competitor and not harm our own marketplace.  If we lower prices too fast that could cause some of our competitors to make desperate price reductions.  We don't want a price war.  We want good volume and good margins.”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “But setting the price at $4k will disappoint some our potential 7610 customers including some of our pre-order customers; we might lose some of those orders.”

Overall Product Family Manager:  “People who can afford the 7610 and really want one will still buy one.  But if someone wants to buy a new radio and they can’t justify the price of a 7610, what are they going to buy?”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “A 7300?”

Overall Product Family Manager:  “Yes, in many or most cases anyone who has been waiting for the 7610 and who still doesn’t have a 7300 will buy a 7300 if they can't afford or justify a 7610.  In other words, why should we compete with ourselves?  If someone buying a new radio can’t justify the 7610 price and they want a new radio, they will buy a 7300 more often than not.  After we announce the 7610's starting price the 7300 is going to look even better to potential new customers, if that's possible.” (smiles)

Overall Product Family Manager:  “And, just to be clear, what will an existing 7300 customer do if they can’t afford or justify a 7610?”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “Keep their 7300 and be happy with the great value it provides. I suppose.”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “But, what if they buy a Flex?”

Overall Product Family Manager:  “If someone really wants a Flex instead of a 7610 or a 7300, or in addition to a 7300, they are going to buy a Flex anyway.  And if it turns out that new Flex models are really taking potential 7610 customers away from us we can always lower the price on the 7610.  In the meantime we won’t have to worry about quite as many 7300 owners dumping their 7300’s into the used market which would put pressure on the sales of new 7300s.  We are currently substantially in control of the market - why put needless pressure on ourselves?  So are we all in agreement?”

7610 Product Line Manager:  “I guess” (shrugs)

7300 Product Line Manager:  “Sounds like a good plan to me” (smiles)

Overall Product Family Manager:  “Don’t look so glum 7610 Product Manager.  You will be able to lower the price on the 7610 as needed.  By this time next year if not sooner the 7610 will be a $3k radio if Flex shows we need to make such a price reduction.  And by the time the 7610 drops below $3k and the 7300 approaches $999 we will introduce the 7300 II and the 7610 II to reset prices.  Flex is a fine competitor that we admire from a distance but Icom is a much larger competitor and we need both volume and margin to successfully operate our business.  7300 Product Manager, we will charge the drinks after the meeting to your product line."


I suspect this is pretty  close to being right. The good news?  My old 756pro3 is probably worth a bit more today than it was yesterday. And I still love my 7300 too. Smiley  I am a happy man. If I could easily afford a 7610 I would have one.. But I can't.  But I still have some really nice rigs.  I even have a Yaesu....Smiley
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W6UV
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Posts: 828




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« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 10:53:43 AM »

This obviously has worried those that are Flexradio Lovers as the 7610 could very well be the death of the Flexradio Company.

I doubt that'll be the case as Icom and Flex target different users. Despite the fact that Flex is going to offer rigs with knobs (the 6400M and 6600M), I think their main market will continue to be the traditional SDR where everything is controlled by a GUI application running on a PC. I suspect that Flex's commercial products probably provides enough revenue to even out any hills and valleys in the sales of their amateur rigs.

Didn't I hear the same thing a few years ago when the IC-7300 came out and was supposed to be the death of Flex, the K3, (you fill in the blank)?
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KA4DPO
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Posts: 819




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« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 11:37:08 AM »

This obviously has worried those that are Flexradio Lovers as the 7610 could very well be the death of the Flexradio Company.

I doubt that'll be the case as Icom and Flex target different users. Despite the fact that Flex is going to offer rigs with knobs (the 6400M and 6600M), I think their main market will continue to be the traditional SDR where everything is controlled by a GUI application running on a PC. I suspect that Flex's commercial products probably provides enough revenue to even out any hills and valleys in the sales of their amateur rigs.

Didn't I hear the same thing a few years ago when the IC-7300 came out and was supposed to be the death of Flex, the K3, (you fill in the blank)?

I think Flex's main market will be the traditional black box SDR because the display on the Maestro is nothing short of rinky dink.  The door display on a Panasonic refrigerator looks better and no one with any brains is going to want to pay that much for a radio that looks makeshift no matter how it performs.  I doubt that the IC-7610 will be the death of any company but Icom has made every serious amateur radio manufacturer sit up and take notice.  Icom, Kenwood, and Yaesu have commercial an military radio contracts, so does Flex Radio for that matter so they are not going to disappear.  Flex caters to a smaller nice than Icom and the sales show it but Stan has a good point.  The IC-7610 might not undo Flex but their lack of follow through on upgrades for radios that cost a lot more than the Icom might very well do them in.
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K0YQ
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« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2017, 12:39:55 PM »

What I find interesting, from a marketing perspective, is the IC-7610 is set to replace the (currently) $2,000 IC-7600.  At $4,000 (or $3,900), that is twice the price of the radio it's replacing (and it is clearly being marketed as a direct replacement; hence, no new series number).

Has this ever happened before?--where a replacement is double the price of the existing model?

So is Icom then ditching the very popular $3,000 radio market?  Granted, the price WILL drop; you often pay a premium to be the first in the door, but even then a drop might be, what, $200 or $300?  It's still well above the $3K mark, that Ham Radio buyers are so accustomed to.  

Granted, this radio is a nice step above the IC-7600; SDR, 2 receivers, DiGi Sel, etc.  However, is it truly worth twice the price?  Will that $4,000 tag scare away the pre-order people like me?  Or do they change their orders to the IC-7600 for half the price like N3AWS mentioned?  

I currently have a 10 year old 756 PROIII.  If the email I got today said the IC-7610 is $3,499 and is shipping on Monday, I'd be pretty excited (I pre-ordered it in December of last year).  Instead, it's $4,000...$500 more than Icom's own rep said it would be on a youtube video from Xenia (linked here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAhllEAUnk -- go the 1:40 mark)...now I am questioning this...I wonder how many others feel like I do?

I would love to be a fly on the wall at Icom's HQ for their first quarter sales recap meeting in 2018...it will be interesting to see if the market accepts a $4K radio in a $3K radio world...maybe...maybe not?

We'll see...

73 de WX0V

I also still use my 756Pro3 with the Inrad roofing filter and never perceived the 7600 as being enough of a step up to upgrade.  I was hoping the 7610 would be in the $3K range.  $4K too rich for my blood, although looks like an amazing rig.  If the new 7600s plummet down into the $1500 range I might buy one. 

Do you feel like I do?  Yes I do! 
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WX0V
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Posts: 46




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« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2017, 01:02:11 PM »

I just spoke to DX Engineering.  Although the price on the email was $3,999.95 (hence, the title of this thread), the actual price will be $100 less at $3,899.95 (as others noted).  Perhaps the $4,000 was an MSRP and the $100 off is the "street price"; similar to what K9IUQ mentioned about the IC-7600. 

If so, then the IC-7610 is priced in line with its predecessor (which K9IUQ and KA4DPO stated), but I still do not think the 7600 was double the price of then then-existing IC-756 PROIII.  The deep discounting of the IC-7600 (must be a lot of them sitting in Icom's warehouse) probably is related to that.

Nevertheless, I confirmed my order and will take delivery when it happens.

I still think it's somewhat of a gamble to replace a $2,000 radio with a $3,900 one, but we'll see.  I also said Denver would easily beat Seattle in Super Bowl XLVIII.

They also said they expect the radio to start shipping in the last week of November/first week of December time frame (so the "ship" date is not 11/20/17).  Just when those who pre-ordered it will get theirs will vary.

Oh, and I ordered just 1...not 2 or 3...any more and I'd be accused of duping!  "WX0V 7610 B4 TU UP"  Grin   

73 de WX0V
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WX0V
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2017, 01:13:57 PM »

 K0YQ

I was hoping the 7610 would be in the $3K range.  $4K too rich for my blood, although looks like an amazing rig.  If the new 7600s plummet down into the $1500 range I might buy one. 

Do you feel like I do?  Yes I do! 
[/quote]

Love the Frampton reference!

I feel like you do, too (talk-box into Marshall stack).  I was hoping it was closer to $3K, but it is what it is. Sad

The good news is, history dictates the price WILL drop in time.  It all depends how much you want one.  I have beaten the living snot out of my PROIII the past 10 years, and it has some issues, so I am due.  A nit-picky thing to be sure, but I cannot stand the s-meter on the IC-7600, so that's out for me.

Enough of this WX0V radio history...have fun and 73! de WX0V
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W6UV
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2017, 01:29:19 PM »

The IC-7610 might not undo Flex but their lack of follow through on upgrades for radios that cost a lot more than the Icom might very well do them in.

And what upgrades are they not following through on?
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AB4D
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Posts: 419


WWW

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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2017, 01:59:35 PM »


I doubt that'll be the case as Icom and Flex target different users. Despite the fact that Flex is going to offer rigs with knobs (the 6400M and 6600M), I think their main market will continue to be the traditional SDR where everything is controlled by a GUI application running on a PC. I suspect that Flex's commercial products probably provides enough revenue to even out any hills and valleys in the sales of their amateur rigs.

Didn't I hear the same thing a few years ago when the IC-7300 came out and was supposed to be the death of Flex, the K3, (you fill in the blank)?

I agree, plenty of market share for most manufacturers. There has always been a rodeo between the big three Japanese manufactures, trying to top each other.  Flex and even Anan are a bit different.  Dedicated SDR enthusiasts that don't care about knobs or all in one boxes, has been a significant portion of their amateur radio market base.  They may own a Flexradio or Anan or both, but it's usually not the only SDR they own.  They are interested moreso with the technical and software aspect of SDR, and the flexibility that can provide.

Icom entered SDR with products directed more at operators.  They will continue to sell a bunch of IC-7300's and now IC-7610's.  It appeals to the masses, with promises of better performance, and a better operating experience than previous analog models. However, the radio they purchase, will more than likely remain virtually the same, with minor updates.  There is not much for the operator to do, but to turn it on, and set the menus.  Icom's SDR models very much mirror their previous analog offerings in that regard, and people are comfortable with that type of hardware.  Assuredly, Yaesu and perhaps Kenwood will follow suit, and will roll out their own SDR versions, making SDR less unique and will equalize the market.

Jim, AB4D  

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K9IUQ
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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2017, 02:46:11 PM »

I think Flex's main market will be the traditional black box SDR because the display on the Maestro is nothing short of rinky dink.  The door display on a Panasonic refrigerator looks better and no one with any brains is going to want to pay that much for a radio that looks makeshift no matter how it performs. 

And here I thought I was the only one who thought the Maestro was "odd". Flexers must like it as Flexradio's new models (are they shipping yet??) look like they just plastered a Maestro with glue on the front of their black box radios. Ugly, real ugly, but not as bad as the pictures of the back of their new radios though.. That back looks like pot metal, cheap pot metal at that. Hasn't Flexradio's advertising department  heard of PhotoShop?  Wink

I remember when the Icom Pro II first came out. Hams were mesmerized by that beautiful color display. That display sold a LOT of radios for Icom.

Regrettably Flexradio's display on their new models is not going to sell any radios to customers not already locked into the "Flex Culture".
 
Stan K9IUQ
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