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Author Topic: The Icom IC-7610 USA price is $4,000  (Read 11876 times)
AC7CW
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Posts: 1004




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« Reply #135 on: December 07, 2017, 11:07:31 AM »

Sometimes good things are worth waiting for.  Grin

Flex Lovers HAVE to wait,wait,wait. It is what they have to do. Wait until the new radios get funded by Reservation $$$. When Flex gets enuff $$$ they make a few. Then when those are gone, they start new Reservation funding for the next batch of radios. Fund,wait,Fund,wait. Or Wait, fund,Wait, fund.  Cheesy Cheesy

I don't pay a lot of mind to this kind of thread but a Flex with [possibly indefinite, who really knows?] wait for the... wait... hold it....drumroll.... Waterfall? Wow...


Well, at least Flex and Tesla have one thing in common then...

Quote
After a Flex Owner actually gets a radio, then they get to wait for software updates to get a full functioning radio. You don't have any valid arguments anymore, Stan, so all you're left with is hyperbole.

Wait is an excellent and well used word by all Flex Lovers.

I haven't waited for any new functionality for my Flex-6500 for years. The only thing not there when I bought it was waterfall, and that was added in an update two weeks later. Everything else was there and it worked. You don't really have a valid argument anymore, Stan, so all you're left with is hyperbole.

WHAAATT???  You paid that much for a digital radio and it didn't even come with a waterfall???  Shut the front door, Stan is right.
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)
W6UV
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Posts: 821




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« Reply #136 on: December 07, 2017, 12:20:27 PM »

I am going to start calling you Lucky Jerry. First you say you only waited 2 weeks to get that waterfall update. You neglected to mention that the waterfall update took forever to come and early 6000 series owners had to wait, wait, wait. But Lucky Jerry only waited 2 weeks.

How many years did it take Icom to add waterfall to the IC-7600? Seven? Eight?
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 2799




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« Reply #137 on: December 07, 2017, 01:54:09 PM »

How many years did it take Icom to add waterfall to the IC-7600? Seven? Eight?

Like you, I "could" say I waited 2 weeks for my Icom waterfall.  Smiley Smiley   But that would be a lie. I did not buy my 7600 until after the Version 2 firmware upgrade. In fact the Icom 7600 ver 2 upgrade was one reason I bought the 7600.  IOW I did not wait for the waterfall because the radio I bought already had Version 2.

What you as a Flex Lover fail to mention is Icom NEVER promised a waterfall on the 7600. In fact most 7600 owners were very surprised that it happened. Icom does not try to sell promises.

Now, Flexradio promised a waterfall from the beginning of the 6000 series. They promised ability to remote also, among many other features. My memory is not great (as W6UV reminded me - I am old) and I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong. But it seems the Flexradio waterfall promise took a couple of years to achieve and the remote even longer.

For your entertainment and memory refreshment , a nice discussion about the lack of a 6000 waterfall:

http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,90145.0.html

What is really interesting is the second post from memory challenged W6UV:  "That really sucks! I wonder what their justification for this could be?"

Not only that but Lucky Jerry's comments in that thread are quite different than what he spouts today.

LMAO
Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 02:15:10 PM by K9IUQ » Logged
W6UV
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Posts: 821




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« Reply #138 on: December 07, 2017, 02:59:53 PM »

Not only that but Lucky Jerry's comments in that thread are quite different than what he spouts today.

Perhaps that's because I got over my ill feelings towards Flex as a result of owning a 5000A. My current attitude towards Flex comes from having owned a Flex-6500 and using it as my primary HF rig for the last 3-1/2 years. I've owned top-of-the-line rigs from all of the major companies (Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, TenTec, and Elecraft), but the Flex-6500 is the best HF rig I've ever used. It has been problem-free from the day I bought it and the only issues I've had were the result of configuration issues that were my fault.

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N6YFM
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Posts: 516




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« Reply #139 on: December 07, 2017, 03:10:04 PM »

Stay Calm, Drink Wine....

Each of us likes a different brand radio.   Each of us accepts or makes compromises
in choosing which brand radio we like.  And for different reasons.
And just like we each choose a different brand and color car, they all seem to get
us to the store and back home just fine.  

I have a Yaesu HF rig and an Icom HF rig.   I am thinking about maybe trying
a Flex 6600 later part of next year, maybe.   They are all very different.

We don't really need to get mad at each other, and fight over something silly
like choosing an Icom or a Flex, or whatever.  We don't really have to act like
politicians and fight about anything and everything, just because we can.
(Although, full disclaimer, yes, I have occasionally done that :-)   Guilty as charged!)

I think if we line up a Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu, Elecraft, Flex, Alinco, Drake, Collins,
you would see wide ranging differences in strengths, weaknesses, performance, and features.
Some can pull out a weak DX better, but all of them can get you on the air for something :-)
Just like a good photographer can pick up ANY camera and make a better photo than an
amateur (but would still prefer their favorite full featured Pro camera), a radio operator can
probably have "some" amount of fun with almost any rig above, entry level to contest grade.

But if you ask me (or anyone) what they prefer, or would wish for, each of us will have a different new,
high end, super-fan-dangled bells, whistles and lights (Coffee dispenser built in) favorite choice.

So again, why fight with each other over this?   If we all liked the exact same thing, we would
be SO VERY BORING it would just kill me.   Listen with interest and curiosity about the changes,
differences,  and choices we each make.   We can learn something by listening, rather than fighting.

Stan will NEVER buy another Flex.  (And in his case, he is right)
Neal will NEVER buy a GM car or truck.  (Or anything that says MFJ)  And I'd like to think that I am right :-)

Who cares!  :-)   No problem.  No worries.

I used to think that the top 3 contributors to death in this world were;
Religion
Politics
Disease

We don't have to add "Un-Caged Angry Torch-carrying Ham Radio Operators" to the above list :-)

My observations;
A Yaesu buyer likes mature traditional superhet design, great receiver performance, but hates the menu system.
An Icom buyer likes a modern SDR design in a compact box, fully stand-alone with knobs that can be used like a SuperHet, or with a computer.
A Kenwood Buyer likes...  Um...   ah...,  The audio?    A 20 year old SuperHet design?   Hates Waterfalls?   I'm reaching....
An Anan buyer likes the hardware features, and loves to program software, and work on evolving features themselves.
A Flex buyer likes the hardware features, likes using a computer for it all, likes the remote Maestro, and is OK waiting
for slowly evolving factory-supplied software features.

The point is;   Some buyer is buying each of the above rigs, so there are many people in each category that have decided
they are just fine with the trade-offs.   So what.   The only thing that matters is if each of them is having fun.
If not, they need to try a different rig, or add another hobby.

You can yell until you are blue in the face and exhausted, but you will never convince me
to want YOUR brand, model, and color car.   But if that one makes YOU happy, then I am happy too.

Cheers
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 03:14:37 PM by N6YFM » Logged
W6UV
Member

Posts: 821




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« Reply #140 on: December 07, 2017, 03:17:50 PM »

The point is;   Some buyer is buying each of the above rigs, so there are many people in each category that have decided
they are just fine with the trade-offs.

And many, if not all, of those companies would be out of business if they produced products as bad as some people on this forum claim.
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2799




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« Reply #141 on: December 07, 2017, 03:57:15 PM »

My current attitude towards Flex comes from having owned a Flex-6500

Yes drinking the Flexradio Koolaid will do strange things to the mind.

My current attitude towards Flexradio comes from having to deal with Flexradio employees (I still have their emails) and Flex Owners who have lied to me MANY times. I have no particular problem with their recent radios. Of course I will never own another Flexradio so my experience with their recent radios is limited.

It is the attitude (and business practices) of the company and the attitude of "some" owners that I have issue with.

Stan K9IUQ
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2799




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« Reply #142 on: December 07, 2017, 04:02:09 PM »

We don't really need to get mad at each other,

I don't get mad at any Flex Lover. In Fact I enjoy talking to them. Jerry, W6UV has been my friend for many years and I still like him. I don't hate or dislike or get mad at anyone over a stupid radio.

Stan K9IUQ
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NI8R
Member

Posts: 272




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« Reply #143 on: December 07, 2017, 05:49:15 PM »

No platform is perfect.

down conversion rigs suffer on 17 and 30 meters.

the second receiver on the ftdx5k is so bad and no one talks about it.

flex software and hardware have issues that are not addressed. You cannot sit next to the rig and use the audio coming out of the computer on cw, you need to port the stereo jack to a speaker, very weird.

ftdx9000 needs about 20db of pre amp to compete with modern day receivers on 6-20m.

elecraft mechanical filters are so tight, brick wall like that the 250hz is not good for search and pounce. need a panadapter/fish finder.

kenwood is heavy into the r and d, all of their products need overhauled fast.

The list of problems goes on and on, yet most of these problems only bother me.

 i have owned a k3, kx3, 590sg, flex6500, ftdx9k, ftdx5k, Anan, ic9100, tentec omni 7, ic7100, , and about 10 more, my opinions are locked.

The ic7851, k3, flex 6k series, Anan100d are the very best of the best in my time of using better radios. You will need nothing if you own one of these.

The ic7851 is the one i would keep if all others had to go, its not the best, but its the best at everything. The receiver is so close to the Anan, it does not matter


Greg ni8r
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VA3VF
Member

Posts: 927




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« Reply #144 on: December 07, 2017, 06:08:34 PM »

No platform is perfect.

Very true!

But to some, it is, while they own it. That changes when the radio changes hands. Roll Eyes
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W6UV
Member

Posts: 821




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« Reply #145 on: December 07, 2017, 07:20:17 PM »

No platform is perfect.

The "best" rig hasn't been built yet, and may never be.

I wonder how long it will be before all rigs are digital direct sampling? That seems to be where everything is heading. Icom seems to be the least conservative of the big three Japanese vendors, so it's not surprising they were first out of the gate with the 7300 (and now the 7610). The superheterodyne has been around for almost a hundred years now, but I think it's finally met its match.

I predict that the IC-7852 (or whatever Icom calls it) and the Elecraft K4 will both be direct sampling rigs.
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N1EU
Member

Posts: 129




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« Reply #146 on: December 08, 2017, 04:14:11 AM »


I predict that the  Elecraft K4 will be direct sampling.

Not much of a leap - are you willing to predict whether that K4 will arrive in 2018 or 2028 or Huh

Barry N1EU
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W6UV
Member

Posts: 821




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« Reply #147 on: December 08, 2017, 07:36:43 AM »


I predict that the  Elecraft K4 will be direct sampling.

Not much of a leap - are you willing to predict whether that K4 will arrive in 2018 or 2028 or Huh

Nope. Elecraft seems to be able to keep their internal development plans closely guarded. The K3 is a decade old now, but the updated K3S is only around two years old, so perhaps the K3 line still has some life left before the K4 is announced (if it ever is). They've also been working on releasing their 1.5KW amp recently, so perhaps that's taken engineering resources away from work on a K3 replacement.
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K7JQ
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Posts: 959




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« Reply #148 on: December 08, 2017, 08:32:30 AM »


I predict that the  Elecraft K4 will be direct sampling.

Not much of a leap - are you willing to predict whether that K4 will arrive in 2018 or 2028 or Huh

Barry N1EU

It's gonna take a lot of R&D and hardware structural changes for a small company like Elecraft to come out with a competitive SDR based radio in the near future. Going from the K3 to the K3S was mainly software changes, maintaining the same cabinet structure and look, keeping with their outboard P3 panadapter. IMO, in the future, they'll have to incorporate a built-in panadapter to be competitive. Look how long it's taking them to come out with the KPA-1500 amplifier, announced and "in the works" years ago.

I'm certainly not knocking Elecraft...they make great proven performance products. It's just that they aren't able to adapt and change as quickly as the larger world-wide companies. Also strange that we haven't heard from Yaesu and Kenwood regarding future SDR plans. Maybe they're putting their ham radio divisions on the back-burner at this time?

73, Bob K7JQ
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W6UV
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Posts: 821




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« Reply #149 on: December 08, 2017, 08:36:45 AM »

I'm certainly not knocking Elecraft...they make great proven performance products. It's just that they aren't able to adapt and change as quickly as the larger world-wide companies

As far as I know Elecraft doesn't have any significant commercial (non-ham) business like the bigger companies (and Flex) have, so they're unable to subsidize development of new ham rigs with profits from their commercial business.
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