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Author Topic: contest and skimmer WW FT8 and FT8 Skimmer  (Read 1360 times)
IK0OZD
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Posts: 157




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« on: November 16, 2017, 04:21:37 AM »

when ? Grin
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WO7R
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Posts: 2538




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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 10:39:16 AM »

There is a kinda sorta skimmer.  If you look at https://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html   . . . you can see what people are hearing if they take the trouble to activate JTAlert.  Which many do.

It's already much more extensive than what you get out of RBN.  In a way, it's too much data.

The DXing modes can't come too soon.

But you know, very little beats using the above link on your own callsign only.  It's a little delayed, but in effect, you get a nice graphical look at what you, yourself are hearing.  Best skimmer of all!

It does little good to see 1A0KM on the PSK Map if you are on the west coast and all those east coast stations trying to work 1A0KM are the only decodes you can actually detect because of overcrowding.  It is often quite binary -- you hear or you don't.

So, I'm not sure that conventional spotting is all that helpful.  I do see some spots now, usually only a handful, and it is hit or miss as to whether I can hear the DX because of the aforementioned problem.

Truthfully, I go by what is being decoded by my own gear.  At most, a juicy spot might get me to change bands.  But, it doesn't take but a minute or two to scan the bands with your own WSJT-X.
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N3QE
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 11:12:19 AM »

WSJT-X has a built in "logger" but not nearly good enough for a contest. It can't even show you which ones are dupes.

There are ways to marry WSJT-X to N1MM through UDP packets. This is a start but not nearly good enough.

PSKReporter is a nifty website but I do not know how these can be ported over into actual telnet cluster format. I am very surprised such a gateway has not been put together but I haven't done it myself either!

VHF Contesters have made extensive use of FT8 since this summer, but I understand almost all the interfacing between FT8 and Contest logger is done manually. e.g. Make the QSO in WSJT and then go type it into the contest logger.
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N2NL
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 12:02:41 PM »

There is at least one FT8 cluster I know of that through-puts FT8 spots from PSKReporter (see DK1MAX QRZ).  You can set up some filters to determine where you get spots from.  I'm wondering if VK3AMA will do something similar, at some point, associated with his JTAlert software.
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WO7R
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 08:20:44 PM »

I really suspect that this will happen and when it does, other than burying the DX, not much will come of it.

As I said, neglecting contesting (which does not yet exist on HF contesting yet anyway), there's little in the way of DX you miss by simply watching your own feed.

It doesn't take more than a minute or two per band to figure out what's there.  You may miss a few weaker stations because your beam is pointed the wrong way, but that's it.

Anything that actually shows in your feed you, by definition, have a shot at working.
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VA3VF
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 03:39:19 PM »

There is a kinda sorta skimmer.  If you look at https://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html   . . . you can see what people are hearing if they take the trouble to activate JTAlert.  Which many do.


There is also hamspots.net, less delay than PSKReporter, but no graphics.
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WO7R
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 09:15:15 PM »

Cool. Can you post a screenshot?  I'm not going to burden them or me with Yet Another Signon just to see what it looks like.  Be nice to see it first.
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VA3VF
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2017, 06:31:20 AM »

Cool. Can you post a screenshot?  I'm not going to burden them or me with Yet Another Signon just to see what it looks like.  Be nice to see it first.

Hi Larry,

Not sure if the request was directed at me, about hamspots.net. I would be happy to post screenshots, but just cannot make it work. As for yet another signon, I know the feeling, but this one is callsign and password only.

Hopefully another reader, more proficient with eHam, can post the screenshots. But as I said before, no graphics, table display only, but with different options. One screenshot is not enough.

73 de Vince, VA3VF
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N3QE
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2017, 06:49:43 AM »

We have a decades-old packet-cluster now telnet-cluster format for distributing spots that the reversebeacon (CW and RTTY) guys bought into wholeheartedly.

But what I see, is that the guys who are effectively doing FT8 skimming, do not natively produce this format and seem to distribute by web pages (sometimes requiring login etc.)

It's great that a couple folks have figured out how to usefully gateway FT8 skims from web pages into the more universal Telnet cluster format.

But what I really think we need to do, is educate the new FT8 guys as to the usefulness of making the spots into telnet cluster spots to begin with such that web-scraping is not necessary.

It is interesting that there is such a gap between FT8 users and the users of more traditional modes. I've only made a few hundred FT8 QSO's, and I've made hundreds of thousands of CW and SSB QSO's. ALMOST NONE of the guys I've worked on FT8 are folks I've ever worked on CW or SSB. It'd be great to narrow or eliminate that generational gap.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 06:52:16 AM by N3QE » Logged
VA3VF
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Posts: 925




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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 06:53:38 AM »

But what I really think we need to do, is educate the new FT8 guys as to the usefulness of making the spots into telnet cluster spots to begin with such that web-scraping is not necessary.

The sheer volume of spots could overwhelm the system. I don't remember the details, but something similar was attempted with DXMaps, and 'plans' changed quickly.

WSJT modes, specially FT8 these days, are like CQWW every day, as far as spots go.
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WO7R
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 08:07:42 AM »

Quote
The sheer volume of spots could overwhelm the system

++

I'm really increasingly uncertain that "spotting" and "FT8" really go together well.  Maybe at some future time, when the mode spreads out to more than 3Khz per band (my personal prediction, no idea if it will come true), then maybe spotting, especially conventional spotting, will make more sense.

Right now, spots are, I find, way more "regional" than usual.  It is not at all abnormal for me to go to 20m FT8 in prime time, when I know from long experience there are plenty of Europeans active, and hear only the "nearby" stateside stations.  I not only would not hear any EU, I would not even see (say) much east coast working EU if it is really frenzied enough.

That is, as long as the 3 KHz window can be overwhelmed (and it often is, especially at the more favorable times), then I don't know that I see much value in seeing a 3A spotted by someone in Maine who can hear the DX, but I have no chance at that particular moment.

I suspect if filtering of some kind were to be implemented on WSJT-X's "left hand window" that nobody would really care about spots at all.  If I could get rid of all the "stateside working stateside" or at least "common DX working each other and/or stateside", I'd have a pretty darn good and useful feed without any secondary anything.
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VA3VF
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Posts: 925




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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 08:15:58 AM »

Quote

That is, as long as the 3 KHz window can be overwhelmed (and it often is, especially at the more favorable times), then I don't know that I see much value in seeing a 3A spotted by someone in Maine who can hear the DX, but I have no chance at that particular moment.


And in my experience, granted that I have a very basic station, the number of QSOs that are not completed is on the increase. I know about the propagation, and propagation may be partly to blame for people TXing on top of others.

Quote

I suspect if filtering of some kind were to be implemented on WSJT-X's "left hand window" that nobody would really care about spots at all.  If I could get rid of all the "stateside working stateside" or at least "common DX working each other and/or stateside", I'd have a pretty darn good and useful feed without any secondary anything.

I have not checked JTDX in a while, but if I recall, it offers more or less what you describe in terms of filtering. I wait for them to move their code base to one that has FT8.
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IK0OZD
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2017, 04:33:18 AM »

very impressive  The spot today during the cq cw ww https://pskreporter.info/cgi-bin/pskstats.pl
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WD4ELG
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Posts: 182




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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2017, 09:03:36 AM »

Am I reading that correctly?  W4DJW reported 223 different countries in 24 hours?  Wow.  But that's not just FT8, right?  It's all modes.  Still, that's impressive.
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