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Author Topic: Getting an ancient PC to work online  (Read 3370 times)
KM1H
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Posts: 2609




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« on: November 16, 2017, 12:54:28 PM »

Dont laugh as it is a P3-450 running at 640 mHz that I havent used online since 2010!

Running XP SP2 and built back in the WIN 95/98 era  and hasnt burped until yesterday.
It wont connect to many sites using IE6, 7, or 8, plus Ive tried to download Chrome, Firefox and Opera that all give "Done with errors" or not compatible.

All I want to do is DL some new AVG, CCleaner, Spybot, and Malwarebytes before adding to several of the engineering programs I have been using near forever.

Carl
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KD3WB
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Posts: 91




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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 01:13:33 PM »

Download and run Microsoft's Windows Update Agent on the computer  It should allow the computer to update itself to SP3. Make sure Automatic Update is enabled in Control Panel. 

http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=100334

Also, you can still get old versions of Firefox.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-older-version-of-firefox

Ben
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KD0REQ
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Posts: 2021




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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 01:19:24 PM »

the thing with old kerosene-powered computers and software is, safer browsers and antivirus stuff will not run on them.  so you're at risk for everything you put on it. it's not that expensive to get a low-end laptop with a 64-bit processor that is miles ahead of that rig, and it should have functional support for years.

just the way it is.
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WA2ISE
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Posts: 1057




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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 01:46:42 PM »

the thing with old kerosene-powered computers and software is, safer browsers and antivirus stuff will not run on them. 

I've heard the argument that says that modern malware won't run on antique computers  Huh

You should keep your important stuff on a protected modern machine, though.
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 02:05:41 PM »

the thing with old kerosene-powered computers and software is, safer browsers and antivirus stuff will not run on them. 

Insufficiently protected computers are easily recruited by criminals for use in botnets that propagate malware or perpetrate denial of service attacks. While resurrecting old technology can be fun, allowing criminals to then use it to better deploy their ransom-ware is irresponsible.

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KM1H
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Posts: 2609




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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 03:30:56 PM »

Quote
the thing with old kerosene-powered computers and software is, safer browsers and antivirus stuff will not run on them.  so you're at risk for everything you put on it. it's not that expensive to get a low-end laptop with a 64-bit processor that is miles ahead of that rig, and it should have functional support for years.

just the way it is.

I asked a simple question and got a lot of noise.  I already have high end PC's and laptops.
Im also at risk every time I go drive one of my 60's muscle cars or hot rods using vintage technology but Ive managed decades doing it.

just the way it is.

Quote
Download and run Microsoft's Windows Update Agent on the computer  It should allow the computer to update itself to SP3. Make sure Automatic Update is enabled in Control Panel.

I noticed that but supposedly SP2 will do it thru IE8 and all the other browsers without going afoul of the MS Genuine Advantage rants. Last time I tried updating a vintage machine MS said I wasnt legal altho I bought the damn software years before. They wouldnt listen so I went out and used a massaged pirate program which still updates just fine.

Carl
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WW7KE
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Posts: 603




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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 03:52:37 PM »

I asked a simple question and got a lot of noise.  I already have high end PC's and laptops.
Im also at risk every time I go drive one of my 60's muscle cars or hot rods using vintage technology but Ive managed decades doing it.

Driving a '60s muscle car on the freeway is still doable.  Driving a Model T on the freeway is not, and that's what your 2000-vintage PC would be the equivalent of.

Quote
just the way it is.

So is the inevitable retirement of turn-of-the-century computers.  The era of 32-bit computing has come to an end.  They're just not worth putting time and money into.
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He speaks fluent PSK31...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!
AA6YQ
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 04:08:17 PM »

Im also at risk every time I go drive one of my 60's muscle cars or hot rods using vintage technology but Ive managed decades doing it.

Presumably you don't leave your muscle cars and hot rods sitting out by the street with keys in the ignition, enabling amoral joyriders to place your neighbors at risk. That's the relevant analogy to connecting a poorly-protected computer to the internet.
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VA3VF
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Posts: 927




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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 06:09:12 PM »

I asked a simple question and got a lot of noise.
Sounds like you know everything you need to know already. I tried this in the past, and it was not fun. It does not take long before you run into other performance and compatibility issues.

I commend you for being environmentally conscious, but it does not pay in this case.
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KD3WB
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Posts: 91




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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 06:37:16 PM »

Quote
the thing with old kerosene-powered computers and software is, safer browsers and antivirus stuff will not run on them.  so you're at risk for everything you put on it. it's not that expensive to get a low-end laptop with a 64-bit processor that is miles ahead of that rig, and it should have functional support for years.
just the way it is.
I asked a simple question and got a lot of noise.  I already have high end PC's and laptops.
Im also at risk every time I go drive one of my 60's muscle cars or hot rods using vintage technology but Ive managed decades doing it.
just the way it is.
Quote
Download and run Microsoft's Windows Update Agent on the computer  It should allow the computer to update itself to SP3. Make sure Automatic Update is enabled in Control Panel.
I noticed that but supposedly SP2 will do it thru IE8 and all the other browsers without going afoul of the MS Genuine Advantage rants. Last time I tried updating a vintage machine MS said I wasnt legal altho I bought the damn software years before. They wouldnt listen so I went out and used a massaged pirate program which still updates just fine.

Try an old version of Firefox.  I recall using version ten while waiting for all the updates to download and install, but you may not have to go back even that far.

https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/

Downloads for SP3 still exist, but not from Microsoft, so use at your own risk.  Also, I don't know what would happen if it was installed over a working version of Windows.

https://www.google.com/search?complete=0&ei=Ui8OWtHKEIqijwTDuohI&q=windows+xp+sp3+download+-site%3Amicrosoft.com

Ben
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 06:46:12 PM by KD3WB » Logged
W4KYR
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Posts: 1607




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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 08:28:25 PM »

If you still use an XP machine on the internet...Make sure you use Adblock with Firefox because some viruses come from the ads...Also AVG Antivirus still works with XP...

 
To anyone...Never toss out those old but still running XP machines! After you take them off the 'net...They can be repurposed for the ham shack..XP machines make excellent machines for packet radio, PSK 31 as well as countless older ham radio programs. Many of them come with a DB9 connector as well as USB port
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The internet and cellphone networks are great until they go down, what then? Find out here. 
https://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,111948.0.html

Using Windows 98 For Packet...
AE5GT
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Posts: 68




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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2017, 07:46:27 AM »

Its hard to find decent sound cards for SDR Panadapters , The best ones are still the old "PRO" cards which use a PCI slot. A lot of the newer motherboards dont have full width PCI slots. So those old machines have some uses .
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KM1H
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Posts: 2609




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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2017, 07:51:08 AM »

Quote
If you still use an XP machine on the internet...Make sure you use Adblock with Firefox because some viruses come from the ads...Also AVG Antivirus still works with XP...
 
To anyone...Never toss out those old but still running XP machines! After you take them off the 'net...They can be repurposed for the ham shack..XP machines make excellent machines for packet radio, PSK 31 as well as countless older ham radio programs. Many of them come with a DB9 connector as well as USB port

Finally somebody with some common sense and reading comprehension ability. It makes me wonder how some even passed their ham exams.

I go back to the Micro (I still have a few years of Byte from #1) and later a Commodore 64 for packet and then from a XT to the current Intel I7 with 16GB RAM, 1TB HD, and Win7 Pro 64 bit which is far more than I need. Ive always built my own from yard sales or transfer station throwaways as it keeps the old brain cells active plus it is a lot of fun.

Quote
Presumably you don't leave your muscle cars and hot rods sitting out by the street with keys in the ignition, enabling amoral joyriders to place your neighbors at risk. That's the relevant analogy to connecting a poorly-protected computer to the internet.

In your dreams and obviously you are clueless about how easy it is to hot wire a vintage vehicle. The closer analogy is many buying/using 20/30 year old ham gear either for cost reasons or some nostalgia if they are up to doing the service on them.
My going to a safe site such as AVG wont give me a STD or other virus Roll Eyes and I can evaluate any on the regular PC.

Quote
Driving a '60s muscle car on the freeway is still doable.  Driving a Model T on the freeway is not, and that's what your 2000-vintage PC would be the equivalent of.

A well kept 68 396 Chebby will keep up with any traffic as well as my former supercharged V8 Flathead in a 1926 Model T coupe. Both have traveled to national meets 1000 miles plus away and mostly in the fast lane. Ive pissed off many Prius drivers doing exactly or under the limit in the fast lane in the T as I blow by with the electronic horn blasting away, and the pair of glasspacks on the 68 are intense when I go by at WOT and let off fast; I particularly remember one fool in a Lincoln Navigator who attempted passing in the breakdown lane.....cubic inches and a big Holley rule Grin Roll Eyes

Carl
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VA3VF
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Posts: 927




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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2017, 08:07:02 AM »

Quote
If you still use an XP machine on the internet...Make sure you use Adblock with Firefox because some viruses come from the ads...Also AVG Antivirus still works with XP...
 
To anyone...Never toss out those old but still running XP machines! After you take them off the 'net...They can be repurposed for the ham shack..XP machines make excellent machines for packet radio, PSK 31 as well as countless older ham radio programs. Many of them come with a DB9 connector as well as USB port

Finally somebody with some common sense and reading comprehension ability. It makes me wonder how some even passed their ham exams.


English is not my first language, so my reading comprehension ability is far from perfect.

But I still maintain that while running Win XP today, and on old hardware, is doable, it doesn't take long before you run into difficulties.

As for the quote you added from another message, one key part was: "After you take them off the 'net...".

It may be perfectly fine for your old engineering software. Anything else will be hit and miss.

You said all you want is to download AVG, CCleaner etc. Can't you get the stuff on a flash drive/cd, and install them from there?

Should you try? Of course! The proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes.

Sorry for 'miscomprehending' even more. Grin
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 08:19:32 AM by VA3VF » Logged
KX4OM
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Posts: 210




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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2017, 11:21:38 AM »

Carl,

As to XP Service Pack3, I downloaded it from a website some time ago, burned it to a CD and installed it on my old Dell Dimension 2200 workstation. That box has a Celeron CPU and 512 MB memory that I use for the lab for parallel port stuff, RS-232 serial port for PIC programmers, Arduino, etc. and a Velleman PC Scope that I still use occasionally. I don't connect it to the internet or my LAN. It has my only installation of MS Office, 2003 version.

I did also install the SP3 update on my laptop that has XP running in a virtual machine, VirtualBox on top of Linux Mint. I have a lot of the same ham lab applications on it that I have on the old Dell 2200. SP3 was needed so I could install a nice graphics editing program, paint.net, which I have used for several years as an adjunct to to Gimp and even Photoshop. It does some things better, like editing schematic copies from scanned pages. Switching to the VM and XP allows me to do some touchups without having to go downstairs to the basement lab. Paint.net needs the Microsoft .NET Framework[/b in order to run, as do many modern Microsoft compatible programs. For paint.net, I had to install Microsoft .NET Framework version 3.5 first. Newer programs may require 3.5 and 4.x as well. The memory and CPU allocations in the virtual machine run it about as well as the old workstation.

Chrome and Firefox no longer support 32-bit. You can get legacy 32-bit installations from various web sites, but they will not be updated as malware threats are constantly being discovered. They would still be probably safer than an old Internet Explorer version, should you need to connect to the internet.

For antivirus and some of the other programs, you are better not using those that download to your machine using an installer, rather as complete program. AVG downloads using a 2.3 MB installer that is intended to download the main program direct to your PC, which is a risk since whatever you have now does not (I imagine) have up-to-date virus software. Avast, on the other hand downloads a 223 MB full program executable. That allows you to download it via another PC that runs Windows 7 or 10 that have their antivirus to check it out for malware, and then copy it to your old XP machine via a USB stick or CD-ROM and install it from there. My old Dell has USB. You can get downloads of other software from a reliable site that I've used for years, MajorGeeks.com. They have the option of DLing from their site or from the software author. They publish their lists daily, and you able to download the latest virus definition updates from AVG, Avast, Avira. etc. as packages so that you can keep up your software to date, but not having to connect to the internet to do so.

I occasionally connect to the internet using XP running in the VirtualBox "sandbox." Generqlly speaking, that provides a degree of isolation between XP and the other stuff on my laptop, which has Windows 10 in addition to Linux Mint (in a dual boot configuration.)

Ted, KX4OM
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