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Author Topic: ICOM offers no Compare between 7610 versus ICOM 7700  (Read 3363 times)
KA4DPO
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Posts: 816




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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2017, 08:17:39 AM »

???Amazing how Zenki gets shot down when he raises valuable points.

Yes, the 'S' meter standard is an recommendation, but why implement it so poorly then?.
We all get 'S'9 should be equivalent to -73dBm, most rigs , including ICOM are calibrated as such.
readings below 'S'9 However, are WAY off the recommended 6dB standard.
Most are 2-3 dB!.
'S' 6 becomes 'S'0 on an ICOM... cool eh?..
So the 'S' meter acts more like a VU meter below 'S' 9 than what is was intended for.
I have had them all, Including the 7700 , and for instance ,s' meter would read 0 on higher bands, yet the signal sounded like at least an "S" 7!..
Switch to analogue rig, and it IS around 'S'7.
This is NOT normal.
The older NON-DSP Icoms had perfect 'S' meters.
K3 has a perfect 'S' meter.
The 'S' meter anomaly started with the DSP ICOMs, probably because of trying to improve the ever unattainable holy grail of RX close in performance numbers, front end GAIN was reduced.
BUILD an actual HF rig, and you will see what I mean.
Another point is the AGC POP, that everyone seems oblivious of on NEWER ICOMS.
Analogue NB's do NOT suffer from this at all.
Non-repetitive single impulses pegs the AGC.. try this with headphones on listening to a weak station!.

It would seem most Hams today stare themselves blind against the BLING and HYPE and don't actually care about real world performance.

73 de William
ZS4L

Amazing that when you click on ZENKI instead of taking you to his profile page the system re-directs you to the login screen.  so besides being annoying it would appear that ZENKI is either a hacker or, there is a flaw in the site software.

As for S meters, they have always been somewhat arbitrary and no one should ever rely on a single S meter reading as anything other than an indication of how you are being received in a particular location at that moment.  S-meter readings will be influenced by propagation and antennas, both at the transmitting end and the receiving end.  I have actually experienced where I switched between a horizontal antenna and a vertical and the station I was working came in stronger on the vertical.  A minute later a second station broke in, he was less than a mile from the station I was working and he was stronger on the horizontal antenna. 

Take S meters for what they are, imprecise indicators of instantaneous signal strength.  That can change at a moments notice.
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NN2X
Member

Posts: 246




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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2017, 09:17:49 AM »

Well, that was some thread! I am the originator of the questioned about the comparison between ICOM 7610 to the ICOM 7700.

This topic was moved to another forum (Understandable), and I think the subject matter has digressed somewhat. I don't know the fellow ZENKI, I assume he is a Ham operator, and just is shy on identifying him or her self. 

In summary, I have my answer, (I will in the future, purchase the ICOM 7610), I like what i see, and believe in Software Defined Radio.


I believe in the future, there will be only SDR offering from all the manufactures...To enhance analog technology, generally requires hardware, but enhancing a SDR, generally just requires another software upgrade.!

Thanks again to all the Ham operators who responded, (And even ZENKI (I will assume this person is a Ham Operator)

C U on the bands

NN2X !
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VE3WGO
Member

Posts: 163




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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2017, 11:29:07 AM »

..... snip...
In summary, I have my answer, (I will in the future, purchase the ICOM 7610), .... snip ...
NN2X !

An excellent choice!  When you get it set up, let us know your opinion of how well the S-meter works.   Wink

73, Ed VE3WGO
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K0UA
Member

Posts: 1458




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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »

..... snip...
In summary, I have my answer, (I will in the future, purchase the ICOM 7610), .... snip ...
NN2X !

An excellent choice!  When you get it set up, let us know your opinion of how well the S-meter works.   Wink

73, Ed VE3WGO

And we want to know how all 6 of the S meters work.  The two conventional, The two Edgemeters, and the two bargraphs.   Grin
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KA4DPO
Member

Posts: 816




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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2017, 07:55:56 AM »

Probably because the Icom IC7700 will be discontinued fairly shortly. In its place there will probably be a new model something likely called the IC-7710.

This new model IC7710 will be the IC7610 on steroids with real firmware and features implemented in the IC7710 that the IC7610 cant have because Icom does not want to deliver the full direct sampling feature potential for a cheap price. Icom have deliberately crippled the IC7610  and many of its potential  to maximise its profits and returns from the firmware investment cycle that will be spun into the IC7710 and IC7860.

Maybe the IC7710 will have a calibrated S-meter and a 200 watt transmitter that  has the best possible IMD performance. It would be even better if they directly supported pre-distortion in this radio. But really if they cant be bothered matching the features that other SDR radio manufacturers have  released why are they even in the radio business if all that they want to release is the same worn out feature set that has been with the ham radio market for the last 3 decades?

I wonder if Travis also has a thing about S-meters?
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KE2TR
Member

Posts: 629




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« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2017, 11:31:20 AM »

Well if you look at the lab numbers from the QST /ARRL lab reviews of the 7700 and then go to the 7300 you will get the idea very quickly that the 7610 with an up graded pre amp/bandpass filter/DigI select in front of there SDR RX that the 7610 should best not only the 7700 but may be on par with there 7851. The RMD numbers will best the 7700 buy allot, the two tone IMD test well be closer, blocking will be better and I would bet that the second order numbers will be the only area were they may be close only because they both use the digi select pre selector. Hell if you look at the RMD numbers of the 7300 at 5&2Khz , blocking and the use of the IP+ on with the two tine IMD test that the 7300 looks very good next to the older 7700. I am not saying that the 7700 is a bad radio but the technology has gotten better and the advancements in these radio's are far better than the older superhet designs.
As far as Flex well there current radio's are very good but until a 6400/6600 has been shipped who knows but I will say Icom knows how to package/market a radio in this hobby better than any one company out there and I think this is only the beginning.
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