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Author Topic: FT8 just might do in CW?  (Read 2799 times)
VK5EEE
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Posts: 1174




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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2017, 11:38:35 PM »

Oh. I always assumed paddles counted as mechanical but the bugs didn't. Guess I assumed wrong! So I've just started to learn paddles. Should I stop and just stick with the straight key?
For SKCC, the following count as mechanical keys (as there is no electronics needed for them to function, unlike paddles): straight key, side swiper (cootie), bug, or even a button such as the microswitch on the QCX QRP rig. So keyers (paddles attached to an eletronic device that causes electronically generated dits and/or dahs) do not count as "mechanical" keys, nor keyboards. 73!
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
KD7RDZI2
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Posts: 229




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« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2017, 01:59:32 AM »

I think JT modes like FT8 make sense using a QRP or QRPp pushing down to the really minimum power to make a QSO otherwise impossible using all other modes, even CW. But hearing some signals last weekend during the WW CW DX contest some FT8 (I think it was this mode) operators seemed to use an amplifier instead. BTW I think it is a nice mode for 160m and lower bands for those stations with marginal antennas at those frequencies.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 02:03:25 AM by KD7RDZI2 » Logged
AE5GT
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Posts: 68




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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2017, 06:33:41 PM »

Did PSK modes displace CW or RTTY more  ?  If FT8 is the be all end all Digital mode why would you run PSK modes ? are you going to get 500 Qs / HR  and manage 2 pileups  with interleaved Qso s on two different bands and only one transmitted signal at a time ?  

So which mode should you choose?

CW because SSB is the work of the devil and everything else is a waste of time.  Grin
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 06:37:49 PM by AE5GT » Logged
K0UA
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Posts: 1456




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« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2017, 08:20:54 AM »

Will FT8 displace CW?  Uh, no.  Not even close. Why would it?  Apples and Oranges.  99 percent of all contacts I have made in the last 9 months or so have been FT8.  They were JT65 before FT8 was invented.  Has CW diminished in the last few months?  I don't think so. Has JT65 and JT9 diminished since the invention of FT8.  You bet!.  While neither are extinct, they are nearly dead as compared to the levels before this spring when FT8 was invented.  I see FT8 having very little to no effect on CW.  Remember FT8 is just for working for awards. Nothing more.  You don't carry on stimulating conversations on it. You make contacts.  It is addictive, and it is fun.  And it is one helluva lot more work than some of the idiots on this forum seem to think.  But why would you listen to them?  They are not FT8 aficionados.  What they know about the intricacies of the mode could fit in a thimble. And that is the way they like it.
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AE5GT
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« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2017, 08:57:07 AM »

Will FT8 displace CW?  Uh, no.  Not even close. Why would it?  Apples and Oranges.  99 percent of all contacts I have made in the last 9 months or so have been FT8.  They were JT65 before FT8 was invented.  Has CW diminished in the last few months?  I don't think so. Has JT65 and JT9 diminished since the invention of FT8.  You bet!.  While neither are extinct, they are nearly dead as compared to the levels before this spring when FT8 was invented.  I see FT8 having very little to no effect on CW.  Remember FT8 is just for working for awards. Nothing more.  You don't carry on stimulating conversations on it. You make contacts.  It is addictive, and it is fun.  And it is one helluva lot more work than some of the idiots on this forum seem to think.  But why would you listen to them?  They are not FT8 aficionados.  What they know about the intricacies of the mode could fit in a thimble. And that is the way they like it.

I for one look forward to your explanation of FT 8 . I am highly interested in correlation theory , sampling and oversampling of low frequency sine waves , and how they irelate to noise. I have to stop now because my thimble is full .
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KD8ZM
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« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2017, 03:38:55 PM »

Surely FT8 is the answer to all things.
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AE5GT
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« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2017, 04:30:55 PM »

I do run SSB sometimes but i try not to get caught.  Grin


For Digital modes i just take shower after every QSO.  Grin
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VK5EEE
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« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2017, 05:06:41 PM »

It surely helps if people making a post in a long thread took the time to read the thread before posting, and not just replying to the first post without reading the rest. I make that observation not with any one particular reply above, but as a general observation that applies to many posts and many threads. But hey we live in lazy times.
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
W7ASA
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« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2017, 12:04:44 PM »

“Enable Transmit” and allow computers to mutually beacon for an award
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VK5EEE
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Posts: 1174




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« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2017, 04:07:56 PM »

Why not indeed Ray good idea. And it may keep a few of the robot and synthetic whiskey lovers off the CW contests and DX pile ups where they slow things down and wreck havoc. The modern uptake in the hobby seems to be split between those that want to leave machines to do everything and check back once a week to take a look at results on a web site, and those that are turning to CW for the human element and the fun. They use different parts of the band, no issues, robots up, humans down.
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
W7ASA
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Posts: 476




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« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2017, 07:20:22 PM »

For me ( and like many CW ops) , having some 'labor saving device' to take away the 'drudgery' of operating the radio is not at all desirable.  You see: it's fun and not something to be eliminated. I use Morse, because I enjoy using Morse for conversation: why have a computer generate meaningless points, awards, ARRL brownie points, if I'm not communicating?  Just pass it all over to the internet and receive Double SECRET Awards and be the envy of all your friends, or the envy of other computers...

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K3UIM
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Posts: 30




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« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2017, 11:44:48 AM »

Quote
So honestly I cannot see what all the fuss is about, those who like to have an orgasm within 30 seconds with a robot blow up doll, be my guest. Those who like foreplay, and prolonged orgasms, and all the additional fun, with a real woman, well CW would be your drink. Those for whom driving is fun and freedom: CW is your car, horse, private plane or any other vehicle of your choice, FT8 is being strapped to the passenger seat of the aircraft flying at high speed but only from A to B with little or no entertainment on board.

EEE, I have 2 questions. Being a comparative newbie to our pastime, what is FT8? Is it, from what I gather from this thread, like Freq. Shift Keying?
And What is a "blow up d...... Oh, never mind! I think there was something about that on "Two And A Half Men" once.
Charlie
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K5UNX
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Posts: 784


WWW

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« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2017, 12:26:58 PM »

EEE, I have 2 questions. Being a comparative newbie to our pastime, what is FT8? Is it, from what I gather from this thread, like Freq. Shift Keying?
And What is a "blow up d...... Oh, never mind! I think there was something about that on "Two And A Half Men" once.
Charlie


http://www.arrl.org/news/ft8-mode-is-latest-bright-shiny-object-in-amateur-radio-digital-world
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K0UA
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Posts: 1456




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« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2017, 01:28:19 PM »

EEE, I have 2 questions. Being a comparative newbie to our pastime, what is FT8? Is it, from what I gather from this thread, like Freq. Shift Keying?
And What is a "blow up d...... Oh, never mind! I think there was something about that on "Two And A Half Men" once.
Charlie


http://www.arrl.org/news/ft8-mode-is-latest-bright-shiny-object-in-amateur-radio-digital-world

much of the info presented there is wrong of course. Not because it was wrong when printed, but because FT8 has changed so much in these last few months.  It is constantly changing and improving.  One large change is the ability to decode at -24 dB below the noise level in a 2.5khz bandwidth now.  Of course LOTW accepts FT8 now.  FT8 is still not fully automated, and still requires an operator and a skilled operator if he wants to do well.  I know many CW forever guys believe FT8 is some sort of robot operation computer to computer and no skill required.  But it isn't true.  It is just a self perpetuating lie.  They feel if they tell the lie often enough it will be believed.  Apparently a recent large DXpedition bought into the lie and actually set up an FT8 operation and were dismayed when it would not run itself.  Oh well, live and learn.  If you would like to learn more about getting set up on FT8, perhaps I could help you?  I have helped many get their rigs and computers set up and going.  I receive emails nearly every day asking for assistance.   But FT8 will never "do in" CW.  They are two separate things, and one will not replace the other, ever.   FT8 has almost completely replaced JT65 though.   There are still some hold outs (JT65 forever!) type of guys.  I don't know why other than trying to fill out WAS on JT65 mode or some such.  I worked a lot of JT65 in the past and dropped it like a hot potato as soon as FT8 came out in June.  Good luck on your learning journey.
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