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Author Topic: Alpha ProMaster Antenna  (Read 2140 times)
KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2018, 07:20:40 AM »

Our Discone-cage antenna (Patent pending )—We modified design  to fit on Flying
Bridge of our 42 foot boat - the space we had keep us to 10 meters 29999 to 14500 20 meters
Using with 240 super flex coax and Ameritron ATR 30 tuner

The Pro Master is the Master of 40/75/80 meters

The Cage Antenna is now our Higher bands antenna

I wish I could post pictures


Captain Joe -Follow our Alaskan Radio Adventures on Facebook






Capt Joes -Discone-cage antenna -Kodiak Ball Buster

Alpha Pro Master Antennas —What  other antennas  try to be !!!
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KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




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« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2018, 10:43:21 AM »

I been using 400 450 watts with Pro Master at times
Her coil built Like Tank


















Captain Joe Alaskan Radio Adventures /Follow us on Facebook



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KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




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« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2018, 07:28:14 AM »

Myantennas CMC-130-3K Common Mode Choke / Noise Suppressor / RF Isolator

With the Pro Master antenna  a marriage in heaven

Friends using them on Dipole’s too

When we fire computer guided weapons we pick up RFI
This Choke completely takes 4 S units noise to zero



Captain Joe









Alpha Pro Master Antenna -What other antennas try and want be when they grow up

Follow my Alaskan Radio Adventures on Facebook
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KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #93 on: December 07, 2018, 12:45:43 PM »

I like wish everyone a safe good DX weekend

Alaskan Time
Kodiak Ham Club and Coast Guard and Yours Truely will be
On 7200 ssb 5-9 pm Sat and Sun

14245 ssb 10am-3pm Sat and Sun

3920 ssb6pm and 8 Pm Sat and Sunday








Captain Joe -Kodiak Alaska most famous ham operator-


Alpha Pro Master Antenna -Born in USA
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KN4IDS
Member

Posts: 1




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« Reply #94 on: December 08, 2018, 06:59:34 AM »

Great help from Alpha Antenna folks, when I was just starting out they spent a lot of time explaining antenna functioning and assisting me with the two antenna I purchased from them.  Good products, good help.
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KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




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« Reply #95 on: December 08, 2018, 01:35:36 PM »

Great help from Alpha Antenna folks, when I was just starting out they spent a lot of time explaining antenna functioning and assisting me with the two antenna I purchased from them.  Good products, good help.

Yes nice help even on Sat and Sun




Captain Joe
Kodiak Alaska
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KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #96 on: December 08, 2018, 02:22:30 PM »

To help understand why and how the Chameleon and Alpha and Zero-Five? and Diamond type broadband (and sadly, often radial-less) antennas get such a low SWR over such a wide range, G8JNJ has a good article here:  "Broadband HF Vertical Comet CHA-250B / VA250 / HA-750BL / FALCON OUT-250-B / GP2500F / JTV680" ===> https://www.g8jnj.net/cometcha250b.htm

Note that Martin is a fan of this style of lossy antenna (which is just fine if that's what you're after...), and has a good "bottom line" graph of the loss involved with a CHA version:



Note that this version is about 3 1/2 S-Units down on 80 M, and about 2 S-Units down on 40 M.  For context,  being 20 dB down (around 3 1/2 S-Units) on 80 M means that the efficiency is around 1%.

Naturally, the details of installation matter, and one can make these numbers not so bad with a good radial field and extended top radiator.



That is not needed to prove the reality of what I already have posted on this topic.

I understand my Pro Master better than most I have Pro Master for Alaska ALE Nets and one in my boat - the tried every marine HF 23-30 whip made with tuners the Pro Master is the Master
Of Vert antennas best 10/80 meter Vert made




Captain Joe
Kodiak Alaska most respected Mobile Marine HF Ham Operator
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 02:32:09 PM by KL4QG » Logged
KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2018, 08:11:25 AM »

Hoping 20 opens up today

14260 open your ears and turn your beams to Kodiak Alaska

I’ll be on 14260 all day get your Alaskan contact

Captain Joe KL4QG


Alpha Pro Master antennas -What Dreams Become!!
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KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #98 on: December 10, 2018, 08:42:10 PM »

Hoping 20 opens up today

14260 open your ears and turn your beams to Kodiak Alaska

I’ll be on 14260 all day get your Alaskan contact

Captain Joe KL4QG


Alpha Pro Master antennas -What Dreams Become!!


I like thank the 5 members here talked me over weekend helping me
Fine Tune my Audio With Heil 781 Mic and my new yaesu 3000




Captain Joe
Kodiak Alaska

Pro Master Antennas the DX master of Vertial Antennas
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KD6RF
Member

Posts: 756


WWW

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« Reply #99 on: December 11, 2018, 05:22:25 AM »

Sadly, the other 322 members that couldn't hear your signal, because of the built-in inefficiency of your antenna, where unable to "help" you  Shocked Huh Shocked


As always, it's not the one's that happen to be able to hear you, it's all the one's that CAN'T hear you, but could have if proper attention had been paid to station setup and antenna basics.

Wondering if you ever managed to come up with an explanation of why those "tests" of your antenna efficiency came out with such absurd numbers?   You promised this a few pages ago.

Also promised was the explanation of how you came up with flawed S-Meter comparisons (never a good way to do tests at best...) that showed 1500 Watts radiated out of your system with only 100 Watts in?


...of course the point of the above is to demonstrate why a decent knowledge of basic antenna principles helps us put a sanity check on manufacturer's claims, and to pick out the incorrectly done "tests"  that we sometimes see claimed on websites or review pages, such as the one's supposedly done above.



« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 05:27:03 AM by KD6RF » Logged

VTenn Antennas
Bay Area Technical Equip Rental and Test Range
http://vtenn.com/Blog/
KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #100 on: December 11, 2018, 07:19:54 AM »

Sadly, the other 322 members that couldn't hear your signal, because of the built-in inefficiency of your antenna, where unable to "help" you  Shocked Huh Shocked


As always, it's not the one's that happen to be able to hear you, it's all the one's that CAN'T hear you, but could have if proper attention had been paid to station setup and antenna basics.

Wondering if you ever managed to come up with an explanation of why those "tests" of your antenna efficiency came out with such absurd numbers?   You promised this a few pages ago.

Also promised was the explanation of how you came up with flawed S-Meter comparisons (never a good way to do tests at best...) that showed 1500 Watts radiated out of your system with only 100 Watts in?


...of course the point of the above is to demonstrate why a decent knowledge of basic antenna principles helps us put a sanity check on manufacturer's claims, and to pick out the incorrectly done "tests"  that we sometimes see claimed on websites or review pages, such as the one's supposedly done above.






My friend I’m sure 322 members were not on signal hunt for me

But I’m glad for members that did talk me

One nice guy on Battle Ship Iowa we talked long time on 20 he owns a yaesu 3000 at home gave me a lot pointers for my new 3000 he provided with a cool web site about Iowa God Bless our Vets

Your beating a drum your drum

You don’t even own Pro Master

We love Pro Masters up in Alaska they do a great job and owner one nice guy he helps us all time up here even on Sundays

My test my friend best test is 3920 Alaskan Bush  net 6pm being about check in net every night Alaska a big big state
From 42 foot boat on Near Island Kodiak Net control from Fairbanks - I’m only member in big Stste AK that able check in every night that’s my Test of Pro Master / don’t tell me Pro Master not a good antenna

Captain Joe





Alpha Pro Master Antennas -when things get Alaskan  tough the Pro Master does the job


« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 07:31:28 AM by KL4QG » Logged
KD6RF
Member

Posts: 756


WWW

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« Reply #101 on: December 11, 2018, 07:54:31 AM »

/\  /\  Another lesson in why we don't need to believe some of the claims made on the web - never is there an honest or well documented test, nor is there any attempt to reconcile the absurdities of previous claims - as seen above.

While some folks surely do benefit by a no-tune fast-setup antenna, the fairly low SWR, but lossy, method used by Alpha and Chameleon and the like, means the large performance loss that the actual numbers tell us from properly conducted test, such as shown in the green G8JNJ graph above ------ And the fact is that most folks don't own or want to own an antenna that is designed for those who can't or don't want to understand antennas and are happy with inefficiency and missed contacts.

An added bonus of understanding antenna basics is that one can homebrew a simple vertical antenna for a few 10's of $ that is up a few S-Units on the low bands!

While those who buy quick-setup, but inefficient, antennas are missing contacts and never knowing it, simple wire antennas are out there that can hang even in there fairly well even with the "big boys".  Good place to start is of course ARRL antenna book.  If you're like me, once you homebrew you'll get hooked on building and understanding how things work - the most fun part of the hobby for me!



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VTenn Antennas
Bay Area Technical Equip Rental and Test Range
http://vtenn.com/Blog/
KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #102 on: December 11, 2018, 08:17:32 AM »

I believe in people not computer programs

And opinion

Pro Master one hell of antenna sitting on 42 foot boat my life depends on Pro Master
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K4SAV
Member

Posts: 2532




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« Reply #103 on: December 11, 2018, 09:18:44 AM »

It takes some digging to figure out what the antenna configuration looks like.  The technical description of how this antenna works is pure technical gibberish, even giving the retro encabulator video a run for the money in content. It's not obvious if this description was written by someone that doesn't have a clue or by someone that wanted to sound grandiose without actually saying anything.

The vertical element comes in different lengths.  Even so it is unclear as to how long it is.  For the 18 ft version, in one place it will show an 18 ft length mast and in another place it will say the top of the antenna is at 18 ft when sitting on top of the tripod.  No specified height for the tripod but it looks like about 5 ft from the video.

There are wires called "NVIS wires".  Four of them usually supplied.  Sometimes they say 24 ft each and sometimes they say various lengths.

The pictures are very clear that these "NVIS" wires attach to the base of the vertical element.  They are driven in parallel with the vertical element.  The other feedpoint wire is attached to the "ground" wire.  That wire is 8 ft in length and goes to a ground stake similar to a tent stake.  This ground wire comprises the counterpoise part of the antenna.  This antenna is obviously off center fed as claimed.  One side is an 8 ft ground wire and everything else is on the other side.

I had a picture of the setup used for measuring the published SWR curve.  I can't seem to find it at the moment.  That test set-up had the NVIS wires run from the top of the tripod, drooping down and running along the ground for a distance, then terminated in a ground stake.  This produces something like a 4 wire dipole, partially on the ground, with the ends of each wire connected to a ground rod.  No doubt this will create a very low SWR curve.  On the low bands, the vertical element will carry insignificany current and contribute nothing. 

In this configuration, gain of the antenna should be very low, similar to that of a dipole on the ground.  On the higher bands, the gain will depend on the length of all of the wires and length of the vertical element.

It is unclear as to the recommended way of configuring this antenna for home use.  There is no specific information. From the little information given, a configuration like the SWR test setup would be OK. 

It should be obvious that getting the whole thing away from ground should improve the gain by a lot.  Of course that won't result in anything like the published low SWR curve.  Putting this antenna on a boat over salt water should make a huge different in gain.  Without analysis, I would guess probably 20 dB or more on the low bands, compared to their SWR test setup.  That is, unless the matching transformer has a lot of loss.  From the power limitation for the antenna, that may not be a good assumption.

Jerry, K4SAV
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KL4QG
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #104 on: December 11, 2018, 10:52:40 AM »

It takes some digging to figure out what the antenna configuration looks like.  The technical description of how this antenna works is pure technical gibberish, even giving the retro encabulator video a run for the money in content. It's not obvious if this description was written by someone that doesn't have a clue or by someone that wanted to sound grandiose without actually saying anything.

The vertical element comes in different lengths.  Even so it is unclear as to how long it is.  For the 18 ft version, in one place it will show an 18 ft length mast and in another place it will say the top of the antenna is at 18 ft when sitting on top of the tripod.  No specified height for the tripod but it looks like about 5 ft from the video.

There are wires called "NVIS wires".  Four of them usually supplied.  Sometimes they say 24 ft each and sometimes they say various lengths.

The pictures are very clear that these "NVIS" wires attach to the base of the vertical element.  They are driven in parallel with the vertical element.  The other feedpoint wire is attached to the "ground" wire.  That wire is 8 ft in length and goes to a ground stake similar to a tent stake.  This ground wire comprises the counterpoise part of the antenna.  This antenna is obviously off center fed as claimed.  One side is an 8 ft ground wire and everything else is on the other side.

I had a picture of the setup used for measuring the published SWR curve.  I can't seem to find it at the moment.  That test set-up had the NVIS wires run from the top of the tripod, drooping down and running along the ground for a distance, then terminated in a ground stake.  This produces something like a 4 wire dipole, partially on the ground, with the ends of each wire connected to a ground rod.  No doubt this will create a very low SWR curve.  On the low bands, the vertical element will carry insignificany current and contribute nothing. 

In this configuration, gain of the antenna should be very low, similar to that of a dipole on the ground.  On the higher bands, the gain will depend on the length of all of the wires and length of the vertical element.

It is unclear as to the recommended way of configuring this antenna for home use.  There is no specific information. From the little information given, a configuration like the SWR test setup would be OK. 

It should be obvious that getting the whole thing away from ground should improve the gain by a lot.  Of course that won't result in anything like the published low SWR curve.  Putting this antenna on a boat over salt water should make a huge different in gain.  Without analysis, I would guess probably 20 dB or more on the low bands, compared to their SWR test setup.  That is, unless the matching transformer has a lot of loss.  From the power limitation for the antenna, that may not be a good assumption.

Jerry, K4SAV

1-How long have you used a Alpha Pro Master ?

2-Coax length ?

3-Radio used do you have built in antenna tuner -How was SWR on 20-40-80 meters

4- How did you ground the Pro Master?
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