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Author Topic: Determing a call sign's weight  (Read 20495 times)
AJ4RW
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Posts: 568




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« on: January 15, 2012, 10:20:37 AM »

I have notice that when looking for a vanity call sign, one of the factors is the weight of the call sign.  I saw on AE7Q's website that there's an assigned weight for phonetics and for morse of a call sign.  I realize the importance of this but I can't figure out what the numbers represent?  Does a 9 on the phonetic weight of a call sign represent an easy or difficult call to pronounce and the same for the morse weight of a call.  Does a 51 as opposed to 49 represent an easier way to send or receive the call sign?  Could someone please explain the concept to me in an easily digestible way?   My perception of a call might differ from another’s perception of the same call.  Since they’re using some sort of algorithm to arrive at these weights, it should be beneficial and non-biased when looking for a new call sign.  Also, is there a website that has a calculator for evaluating any call sign’s weight?
73 and tnx Randy AJ4RW
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W7ETA
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Posts: 2527




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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 01:23:36 PM »

Here you go:
http://www.fists.co.uk/measurecallsign.aspx

My first vanity call was AE7G--I like it's cadence on CW, and I thought it would give me an advantage in pile-ups if the op wanted just last two.  My theory was that some DX would favor 7s over central and east coast stations.

Plus, I did not want a call with easily confused CW characters, D, B, J; did not want a call either starting or ending with K or R which can be confused with "over" and "received".

Unfortunately, DX would change my call to VE7 and sometimes to EA7.

Best from Tucson
Bob
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AJ4RW
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 03:28:40 PM »

Thanks a million Bob for the info.  I already had some ideas from back when I applied for this call concerning ease of sending and receiving CW without much confusion.  I would like to get a 1x2 for the ease of saying the call but I'm fairly happy with this one even if it's a little longer to spit out the call when working SSB in a pileup.  AJ4RW has fairly good rhythm phonetically and cw but always looking.
73 Randy
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AJ4RW
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Posts: 568




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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 05:16:42 PM »

Is there a website I can visit that will calculate and explain the phonetic weight of a call sign?  I have several factors to consider when selecting a call sign and would like to have and understand how phonetic weight scale is evaluated.  Is a 7 on the scale better than a 10 or vice-versa and what do they represent?
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AE5VH
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Posts: 4




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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 06:36:41 AM »

The phonetic weight is just the number of syllables needed to say the call.

W5MZ has 6 syllables: wis key five mike zu lu
N5IN has 10: no vem ber five in di a no vem ber

A call with a higher phonetic weight would presumably take longer to say, maybe not so useful with DX pileups.  The phonetic weight doesn't seem take into account things like cadence or letters that are easily confused.
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AJ4RW
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Posts: 568




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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 04:05:32 PM »

Thanks Tamara and Bob for the very useful information.  That cleared up the confusion.  I guess the phonetic weight can also vary upon which phonetics you use.  I use ITU but there are others that would change the syllables of a call.  Thanks a million.
73 Randy
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LUCYAJONES
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Posts: 16




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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2017, 10:13:49 PM »

I have notice that when looking for a vanity call sign, one of the factors is the weight of the call sign.  I saw on AE7Q's website that there's an assigned weight for phonetics and for morse of a call sign.  I realize the importance of this but I can't figure out what the numbers represent?  Does a 9 on the phonetic weight of a call sign represent an easy or difficult call to pronounce and the same for the morse weight of a call.  Does a 51 as opposed to 49 represent an easier way to send or receive the call sign?  Could someone please explain the concept to me in an easily digestible way?   My perception of a call might differ from another’s perception of the same call.  Since they’re using some sort of algorithm to arrive at these weights, it should be beneficial and non-biased when looking for a new call sign.  Also, is there a website that has a calculator for evaluating any call sign’s weight?
73 and tnx Randy AJ4RW

Is there a site I can visit that will ascertain and clarify the phonetic weight of a call sign? I have a few components to consider while choosing a call sign and might want to have and see how phonetic weight scale is assessed. Is a 7 on the scale superior to a 10 or the other way around and what do they speak to?
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N9KX
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Posts: 2063




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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 05:00:23 PM »

Is there a site I can visit that will ascertain and clarify the phonetic weight of a call sign?

visit this page & just type in the callsign you want to check the weight of in the field labeled "Show license, trustee, & application history, (callsign):_____"

http://www.ae7q.com/query/

(the weights will appear in the upper right corner)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 05:02:35 PM by N9KX » Logged
N9KX
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Posts: 2063




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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 11:06:04 PM »

Is there a site I can visit that will ascertain and clarify the phonetic weight of a call sign? I have a few components to consider while choosing a call sign and might want to have and see how phonetic weight scale is assessed. Is a 7 on the scale superior to a 10 or the other way around and what do they speak to?

you will find the nitty gritty here: http://www.ae7q.com/query/text/Explain.php#Derived

Quote
The following fields are not present in the FCC ULS or archival data, and are thus not changeable. They are derived from other values in the ULS or archival data:

County. This value is derived from the ZIP code.
Maidenhead. This value is derived from the ZIP code.
Callsign Group. This value is derived from the Callsign.
Operator Group. This value is derived from the Operator Class.
Call Region. This value is derived from the Callsign.
Geo Region. This value is derived from the State code.
Phonetic Weight. This value is derived† from the Callsign.
Morse Weight. This value is derived† from the Callsign.
The following fields are not present in the FCC ULS or archival data, and are thus not changeable. They are derived from both the ULS history and archival history. The accuracy of these fields may depend upon the accurate linking of archival data to ULS data (see below):

Code Proficiency.
Next Callsign.
The following fields have been added to archival data, in order to link archival data to ULS data. They are derived from both the ULS history and archival history. A best attempt is made to match archival records with those from the ULS database, but if the names are different, the automated software cannot make a match. These values may be changed in archival data upon request:

Licensee ID.
FCC Registration Number (FRN).
†These use the following SQL statement, plus a simple database table of characters and their phonetic & Morse equivalents (in dots and dashes):

  SELECT SUM( CHAR_LENGTH( REPLACE( morse_code, '-', '==' ) ) * 2 + 2 ),
    SUM( CHAR_LENGTH( REGEXP_REPLACE( phonetic, '[^-]', '', 'g' ) ) + 1 )
    FROM        "CharMap"
   NATURAL   JOIN (SELECT SUBSTRING( callsign
               FROM GENERATE_SERIES( 1, 6 )
               FOR 1) AS char_id) AS dummy
Explanation: The phonetic & Morse weights (the relative time it takes to key the callsign) is computed above, as follows:
The PostreSQL GENERATE_SERIES function is used to generate the string offsets of 1 through 6 in turn.
The string offsets are used with the SQL SUBSTRING function to extract each individual character from the callsign in turn.
Each extracted character from the callsign is used to lookup the equivalent phonetic & Morse code pattern in the database table.
For phonetic syllables:
The PostreSQL REGEXP_REPLACE function is used to remove all non-hyphen characters from the phonetic name.
Next, the SQL CHAR_LENGTH function gives the length of the result, which is just a count of the number of hyphens in the phonetic name.
Next, 1 is added to the count of hyphens, to give the number of syllables in the phonetic name. This now correctly computes the phonetic syllable weight of a single character.
For Morse code:
Each dot has a weight of two (the dot and the space after it), and each dash has a weight of four (the dash and the space after it). Therefore, a dash and its space is weighted twice as long as dot and its space. As a result, the SQL REPLACE function replaces each dash in the Morse code pattern with two (not three) "equal signs" (the actual character is unimportant) to give the proper relative weighting (in terms of length).
Next, the SQL CHAR_LENGTH function gives the length of the modified (above) Morse code pattern.
Next, the length is multiplied by 2 (remember that dots have a weight of two, and dashes have a weight of four), to give the actual weight.
Next, 2 is added to the single space after the last dot or dash in each character, to give the weight of the space (three) between characters. This now correctly computes the Morse weight of a single character.
The SQL SUM functions total the phonetic & Morse weights of each character, giving the correct total.
Note that this Morse weight computation includes the weight of the trailing character space after the last character. Thus, the total weight is too high by "3" for just sending the callsign; however, if you consider the callsign as a word in a message, it is too low by "2", since a word space is "5". Since the whole purpose of determining the Morse weight is to compare the counts between different callsigns, any constant offset does not matter, and this offset provides for consistency with the Morse weight computations of other amateur web sites.
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N9KX
Member

Posts: 2063




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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 02:26:27 PM »

I have a few components to consider while choosing a call sign and might want to have and see how phonetic weight scale is assessed. Is a 7 on the scale superior to a 10 or the other way around and what do they speak to?

- seven and zero both have two syllables on phone so that is a wash

- 7 is shorter (quicker to xmt and rcv) than 0 with CW because it has more dits and less dashes than 0

- both 7 and 0 tend to be desirable in terms of DX looking for rarer states or areas because many still associate the numbers with particular geographic areas

- another consideration some employ is how well certain numbers or phonetics for a given letter are easily recognizable in a pileup or in tough condx


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