eHam

eHam Forums => Elmers => Topic started by: GW0HUS on August 26, 2015, 11:52:12 PM



Title: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: GW0HUS on August 26, 2015, 11:52:12 PM

Is it just me that thinks every ham radio op that uses CB lingo on the bands should be constructively criticised and informed not to use such lingo,
I notice this seems to happen to a lot of licensed novice stations and of course there are plenty of intermediate and full calls doing the same.
 I myself listened for  many years  before getting licensed, but I never once thought to  bring over the " lingo " I heard, as they say WHEN IN ROME,
(speak like an Amateur  act like an Amateur ) not act  like some demented kid,s club .. or worse !!
It just it seems to me that operating practices have gotten so bad in recent years and are getting  worse .
I,m afraid a lot of these clubs who put these guys on the air really need to step up to the game and teach these guys to ditch their bad habbits, its bad enough listening to guys say "MY PERSONAL IS" and "MY FRIEND MY FRIEND " your a SANDIEGO 9, next thing the 10 code will be used.
I think is time to bring back proper operating practises before a lot of really good operators leave the hobby for good. it just takes a couple of bad apples to ruin a whole barrel Not only here in the U.K  BUT  WORLDWIDE .. :'( :'( :'(

Graham Gw0hus


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: G3RZP on August 27, 2015, 12:28:38 AM
There's another advantage in using Morse....


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: G8JNJ on August 27, 2015, 05:20:21 AM
Errrrr......

Isn't amateur radio just as bad in it's own way ?

I often think that the only thing that differentiates professions is the terminology that is used.

Discuss........

73 OM Dah Di Dah,


Martin - G8JNJ

www.g8jnj.net
www.tc2m.info
http://websdr.suws.org.uk/


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: KG7SWP on August 27, 2015, 06:06:06 AM
I hear old timers using the same lingo all of the time. When I was on CB, I do not ever recall using the term, "My personal is".

Ed


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: K8AXW on August 27, 2015, 07:32:36 AM
I have always said that a man working toward his ham ticket should be listening to the ham bands.....to learn procedure and language  (14,313 excluded) along with what he needs to learn to pass the test(s).

I've heard many new hams say they were afraid to get on the air because "they might not be accepted because they are new."  While I won't argue that point, learning to speak the ham "language" and not the CB "language" will help overcome that rough spot, if it does exist.
 


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: AC2EU on August 27, 2015, 08:49:32 AM
CB has moved to the 75 meter band and they are PROUD to be as obnoxious as they wanna be.
As unfortunate as it may be, it is rather entertaining at times.

A previous poster mentioned that it makes the case for moving to CW. I agree.
Most of the offending parties are too lazy and/or ignorant to try CW. Even if they did, they would have no choice but learn a NEW LINGO which would probably make their tiny heads explode.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: N4NYY on August 27, 2015, 10:09:02 AM

Is it just me that thinks every ham radio op that uses CB lingo on the bands should be constructively criticised and informed not to use such lingo,
I notice this seems to happen to a lot of licensed novice stations and of course there are plenty of intermediate and full calls doing the same.
 I myself listened for  many years  before getting licensed, but I never once thought to  bring over the " lingo " I heard, as they say WHEN IN ROME,
(speak like an Amateur  act like an Amateur ) not act  like some demented kid,s club .. or worse !!
It just it seems to me that operating practices have gotten so bad in recent years and are getting  worse .
I,m afraid a lot of these clubs who put these guys on the air really need to step up to the game and teach these guys to ditch their bad habbits, its bad enough listening to guys say "MY PERSONAL IS" and "MY FRIEND MY FRIEND " your a SANDIEGO 9, next thing the 10 code will be used.
I think is time to bring back proper operating practises before a lot of really good operators leave the hobby for good. it just takes a couple of bad apples to ruin a whole barrel Not only here in the U.K  BUT  WORLDWIDE .. :'( :'( :'(

Graham Gw0hus

Have you ever  been to the 80M rag chews in the US at night? They make CBers look like amateurs.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: K4JJL on August 27, 2015, 10:42:40 AM
(http://dinarvets.com/forums/uploads/gallery/album_1038/med_gallery_56225_1038_62827.jpg)


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: DRBEN on August 27, 2015, 12:08:01 PM

Is it just me that thinks every ham radio op that uses CB lingo on the bands should be constructively criticised and informed not to use such lingo,
I notice this seems to happen to a lot of licensed novice stations and of course there are plenty of intermediate and full calls doing the same.
 I myself listened for  many years  before getting licensed, but I never once thought to  bring over the " lingo " I heard, as they say WHEN IN ROME,
(speak like an Amateur  act like an Amateur ) not act  like some demented kid,s club .. or worse !!
It just it seems to me that operating practices have gotten so bad in recent years and are getting  worse .
I,m afraid a lot of these clubs who put these guys on the air really need to step up to the game and teach these guys to ditch their bad habbits, its bad enough listening to guys say "MY PERSONAL IS" and "MY FRIEND MY FRIEND " your a SANDIEGO 9, next thing the 10 code will be used.
I think is time to bring back proper operating practises before a lot of really good operators leave the hobby for good. it just takes a couple of bad apples to ruin a whole barrel Not only here in the U.K  BUT  WORLDWIDE .. :'( :'( :'(

Graham Gw0hus

Your best bet is teaching by example. When a particular field has its own terminology, newcomers will generally integrate that terminology into their own vocabulary. But some will never change. Over 50 years since being dropped, we still hear the old phonetic alphabet (Able, Baker, Charlie...Queen, Roger, Sugar....

In some cases, you could encourage the use of a particular term by questioning the other party: "I think you said 'sandiego 9'. I'm not familiar with that term. What does it mean?" Then you can politely point out what the usual term is "S9" and when conditions are difficult "sierra 9" and add that "sierra" is the phonetic named used for the letter S in the international phonetic alphabet used or recommended by the ARRL, ITU, ICAO, NATO, U.S. and most other countries' military forces for the last half-century.

If the goal is communication, it really doesn't matter what word is used so long as the message is understood (even if the word makes your grandmother blush).

This discussion has made me hungry. I think I'll go out and get a submarine, hero, hoagie, grinder po'boy, torpedo or whatever the folks around here call them!


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: N7ZAL on August 27, 2015, 12:17:16 PM
Times change and things evolve and nothing can be done. So I don't worry about adaptability any more. :)


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: K0CBA on August 29, 2015, 08:03:55 AM
Me thinks the D-minus students have taken over.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: G3RZP on August 29, 2015, 09:21:01 AM
Back in the mid 1960s, CBer's breaking the rules got sent to jail! See QST.....How things have changed!


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: ONAIR on August 31, 2015, 02:31:59 AM
Just recently, I heard a few new hams on 2 meters using terms like "Good Buddy" and "Roger D"!  Rather than start an argument over it, I just called them "Mud Ducks" and left.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: M0GVZ on August 31, 2015, 05:33:00 AM
Its interesting how many of the old Gx callsigns you hear using CB lingo on the repeaters, 40 and 80 metres so its far from just those who have come into the hobby since the CW requirement was dropped.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: G8YMW on August 31, 2015, 06:03:19 AM
True Conor, as far as the UK is concerned CBers upgrading to amateur radio overloaded the licensing system in 1980.
I took my RAE in May 1980 and it was October when my license came through. I rang up to see where it got to, the lady sounded like  she'd been run into the ground.

The G8 series ran from the mid 60's until December 1980.
The G6 series was done and dusted in 18 months flat.

As an aside, G4 was at G4K** when I was licensed

Onair, are you sure they were not using the "lorry lingo" just for the listners? Just wondering


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: KG7SWP on August 31, 2015, 06:15:15 AM
Again, I hear old timers that I ragchew with regularly use these terms. Unless they are all liars, they had their tickets for 30+ years. How can you blame CBers for that?

Ed


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: M0KFO on August 31, 2015, 06:27:18 AM
I'm sure I just stumbled into the hamradiodeals forum.

To the OP, just remember, when giving out the prefix letter of your call sign, it is Guatemala and the suffix letter is Honolulu.

BTW, how's me modge, am I in your strawberry patch? You're a bit 10-1 good buddy, back of the box. Anyway, 10-10 'til we do it again, keep the shiny side up and the greasy side down, catch you on the flip flop, we're down, we're gone.


Suppose it could be worse, CQ contest, CQ contest, CQ contest ad infinitum.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: AC2EU on August 31, 2015, 06:43:02 AM
CW CQ CONTEST? that's too specific! It's CQ TEST ad nausuem every 100 HZ or even on top of each other during a contest "feeding frenzy".  It's like a bunch of bulls in a china shop. When that happens,The only refuge is 30 meters
They are worse than our "good buddies", IMO.
Hard core contesters talk about about contesting as if it's a blood sport or something. Very strange...



Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: EI2HEB on September 01, 2015, 01:28:47 AM
Really?

are we really THAT worried about the terminology / lingo used ?

I do not mind "my friend my friend" "good buddy" "roger".
Nor the old alphabet "able, baker, charlie, easy, fox" -- these are actually still the standard when talking to Engineers in various disciplines.

As long as the operator has common decency, friendly, well mannered, no foul language, pleasant, aware of the rules/practices/bandplans and respectful... now THAT I would call important, and has nothing to do with Lingo

and it seems that this is not always the case; newbies or long-timers(!!)

But go ahead; discuss Lingo again; discussion threads like this makes me giggle.  ;)

-- my 2 cents --
Rgds,
Edwin.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: DRBEN on September 01, 2015, 08:01:15 AM
Really?

are we really THAT worried about the terminology / lingo used ?

I do not mind "my friend my friend" "good buddy" "roger".
Nor the old alphabet "able, baker, charlie, easy, fox" -- these are actually still the standard when talking to Engineers in various disciplines[/color].

As long as the operator has common decency, friendly, well mannered, no foul language, pleasant, aware of the rules/practices/bandplans and respectful... now THAT I would call important, and has nothing to do with Lingo

and it seems that this is not always the case; newbies or long-timers(!!)

But go ahead; discuss Lingo again; discussion threads like this makes me giggle.  ;)

-- my 2 cents --
Rgds,
Edwin.

Actually that alphabet is no longer the recommended standard for engineers. In fact, it was formerly (but no longer) used by IBM and is basically the pre-1956 U.S. military alphabet (now replaced by the NATO alphabet).


http://www.w2aee.columbia.edu/phonetic.html

Able Baker Charlie Dog Easy Fox George How Item Jig King Love Mike Nan Oboe Peter Queen Roger Sugar Tare Uncle Victor William X-ray Yoke Zebra [formerly used by IBM engineers for hex digits and pin positions; still used at at least one site]


http://www.dictionaryofengineering.com/definition/phonetic-alphabet.html

The "Dictionary of Engineering, Wiley, 2004, defines phonetic alphabet as "A set of standardized words utilized to identify the letter of a given alphabet." Then, the only example given is several letters specific to the NATA/ITU/ICAO/ARRL alphabet.


www.engineer-and-technician.com

The NATO alphabet is recommended.


http://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F1-4020-0613-6_13957 (password protected)

Computer Science and Communications Dictionary, p. 1265, recommends the NATO alphabet


http://www.engcom.net/engineering-trivia-quiz/142-engineering-trivia-quiz-april-20-2015

In a trivia quiz based on scientific and engineering terms, question 6 requires the engineer contestant to know that I in the NATO alphabet is India. How would engineers (in general) know this unless it is profession-related terminology?

As the English essayist and poet Alexander Pope wrote:

Be not the first by whom the new are tried,
Nor yet the last to lay the old aside.







Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: WA9CFK on September 01, 2015, 09:33:17 AM
What make Ham lingo and better than CB lingo or Army lingo or Marine lingo or the latest catch phrase from a Country song.

The fact is people use the figures of speech they are comfortable with. Typically tied to their hobbies, generation, circle of friend or an expression they just find particularly “catchy”.

The language involves over time and many old terms are dropped while new one are added. A few even stand the test of time.

In the fifty years that I have been in the air, it is the profanity not the “10-4 Good Buddy” that bothers me. As already mentioned, it is one of the advantages of CW.   


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: W6EM on September 01, 2015, 02:44:13 PM
Don't we have our own version of mal-adapted jargon, though?  Like using "Q" signals during phone contacts.  QTH, QSO, QRT, QRX, QSY, and QRU etc. etc. etc.  Q signals were devised for CW operation to quickly send what otherwise would take much, much longer.

I'll have to admit, though, living here in the Southeast, I hear "my personal" and "comeback" much too often.

For those who preach "ARRL Phonetic Alphabet,"  Here's the OFFICIAL ARRL P A from page 575 of the 1962 ARRL Radio Amateur's Handbook: Able, Baker, Charlie David, Edward, Frank, George, Henry, Ida, John, King, Lewis, Mary, Nancy, Otto, Peter, Queen, Robert, Susan, Thomas, Union, Victor, William, X-ray, Young, Zebra.

Definitely a must if you don't like the ICAO one and want to de-militarize amateur radio.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: DRBEN on September 01, 2015, 07:10:32 PM
Don't we have our own version of mal-adapted jargon, though?  Like using "Q" signals during phone contacts.  QTH, QSO, QRT, QRX, QSY, and QRU etc. etc. etc.  Q signals were devised for CW operation to quickly send what otherwise would take much, much longer.

I'll have to admit, though, living here in the Southeast, I hear "my personal" and "comeback" much too often.

For those who preach "ARRL Phonetic Alphabet,"  Here's the OFFICIAL ARRL P A from page 575 of the 1962 ARRL Radio Amateur's Handbook: Able, Baker, Charlie David, Edward, Frank, George, Henry, Ida, John, King, Lewis, Mary, Nancy, Otto, Peter, Queen, Robert, Susan, Thomas, Union, Victor, William, X-ray, Young, Zebra.

Definitely a must if you don't like the ICAO one and want to de-militarize amateur radio.

From a current ARRL operating procedures document:
"If the other operator is having difficulty copying your signals you should use the standard International Telecommunication Union (ITU) phonetic alphabet."
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/LabHandbook/RLH%20Unit%205.pdf

That's the NATO/ICAO/etc. alphabet.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: WA9CFK on September 01, 2015, 08:58:00 PM
No doubt there are times that proper protocols should be use but for many amateur radio is simply a fun hobby.

As such, clever phrases and unique call sign phonetics abound.



Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: W6EM on September 01, 2015, 09:33:24 PM
Don't we have our own version of mal-adapted jargon, though?  Like using "Q" signals during phone contacts.  QTH, QSO, QRT, QRX, QSY, and QRU etc. etc. etc.  Q signals were devised for CW operation to quickly send what otherwise would take much, much longer.

I'll have to admit, though, living here in the Southeast, I hear "my personal" and "comeback" much too often.

For those who preach "ARRL Phonetic Alphabet,"  Here's the OFFICIAL ARRL P A from page 575 of the 1962 ARRL Radio Amateur's Handbook: Able, Baker, Charlie David, Edward, Frank, George, Henry, Ida, John, King, Lewis, Mary, Nancy, Otto, Peter, Queen, Robert, Susan, Thomas, Union, Victor, William, X-ray, Young, Zebra.

Definitely a must if you don't like the ICAO one and want to de-militarize amateur radio.

From a current ARRL operating procedures document:
"If the other operator is having difficulty copying your signals you should use the standard International Telecommunication Union (ITU) phonetic alphabet."
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/LabHandbook/RLH%20Unit%205.pdf

That's the NATO/ICAO/etc. alphabet.

If all else fails (not "when") then we should follow the ARRL Lab Notebook? Another Ed Hare Special?
Just kidding, of course.  Lots of things change over the years.  It used to be that when someone used ICAO phonetics, they were assumed to be ex-military commo people, MARS, etc.

I quoted the 1962 Handbook to show that at some point after then, the League decided to use the International Civil Aviation Organization's alphabet.  And, they probably convinced the ITU to switch to it as well.  Probably sounded best when spoken into a carbon mike element....the military's old standy airplane mike.  Loud and raspy and hard to understand.  Very poor audio by today's standards.


Title: RE: C.B LINGO USED ON HAM BANDS "Standards" do they need lifting .. I think so .!
Post by: EI2HEB on September 02, 2015, 12:49:47 AM
Actually that alphabet is no longer the recommended standard for engineers. In fact, it was formerly (but no longer) used by IBM and is basically the pre-1956 U.S. military alphabet (now replaced by the NATO alphabet).

Difference between theory and practice...

I try to use whichever is appropriate for the situation; most of the time it is the (current) NATO alphabet, sometimes it is the old, sometimes it is "made-up" -- as long as the actual message is communicated correctly.

Professionally I use the NATO alphabet, unless I deal with "seasoned" IBM engineers  ;)
And I do have dealings with those on a daily basis, and not all of them are from IBM either !

While time goes on, certain terminology/lingo changes... but not everyone will change with it, some may adapt in a different pace.
There is no harm in a hobby like Amateur Radio to use an older phonetic alphabet as long as both parties understand the message.
I would not classify "not using the NATO alphabet" as wrong behaviour on the bands

A youngster asked me once: "why is it called dialling a number when you make a phone call?" -- it will not be long before "dialling a number" will be replaced with a new term...

There is a lot worse behaviour on the bands which is upsetting; terminology/lingo is not one of them (for me)

73,
Edwin.