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eHam Forums => Computers And Software => Topic started by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 07:37:13 AM



Title: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 07:37:13 AM
You might want to consider this
http://hothardware.com/news/heres-how-to-keep-microsofts-nose-out-of-your-personal-data-in-windows-10 (http://hothardware.com/news/heres-how-to-keep-microsofts-nose-out-of-your-personal-data-in-windows-10)
And This
http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/14/comparison-of-windows-10-privacy-tools/ (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/14/comparison-of-windows-10-privacy-tools/)


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KK4GGL on August 27, 2015, 07:48:29 AM
... or go to http://distrowatch.com (http://distrowatch.com) and get a Linux based system :-)


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 08:00:34 AM
... or go to http://distrowatch.com (http://distrowatch.com) and get a Linux based system :-)
That is fine if you can live with drivers that are at least two years out of date.
I own a Linux system, sit behind a Linux firewall on a separate box and have been using Linux in one form or another since 1995.
If all you plan to do is browse the web read and write email, do a few basic office functions and some multi media it will do the job.

Contact management, serious desktop publishing Nope Linux won't cut the mustard.

My PCB design / spice simulation software won't run in Linux, Wine is still a pain in the butt to get to work under some apps... Especially games which is why you will not see a serious gamer run Linux.



Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KK4GGL on August 27, 2015, 09:25:24 AM
... or go to http://distrowatch.com (http://distrowatch.com) and get a Linux based system :-)
That is fine if you can live with drivers that are at least two years out of date.
I own a Linux system, sit behind a Linux firewall on a separate box and have been using Linux in one form or another since 1995.
If all you plan to do is browse the web read and write email, do a few basic office functions and some multi media it will do the job.

Contact management, serious desktop publishing Nope Linux won't cut the mustard.

My PCB design / spice simulation software won't run in Linux, Wine is still a pain in the butt to get to work under some apps... Especially games which is why you will not see a serious gamer run Linux.

I don't have problems with drivers, but then I only have an all-in-one printer, a couple of signalinks and a radio control cable plugged in at the moment. I've never used heavy duty contact management software, so I don't really know what's available in GNU/Linux or Android. As for desktop publishing, I was under the impression that Scribus was pretty good.

If your specific software doesn't run under a Linux distro, I can see why you'd need Windows.

As for gaming, there's consoles.

Still.. I don't have to worry about Win10 snooping :-)


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 10:01:23 AM
... or go to http://distrowatch.com (http://distrowatch.com) and get a Linux based system :-)
That is fine if you can live with drivers that are at least two years out of date.
I own a Linux system, sit behind a Linux firewall on a separate box and have been using Linux in one form or another since 1995.
If all you plan to do is browse the web read and write email, do a few basic office functions and some multi media it will do the job.

Contact management, serious desktop publishing Nope Linux won't cut the mustard.

My PCB design / spice simulation software won't run in Linux, Wine is still a pain in the butt to get to work under some apps... Especially games which is why you will not see a serious gamer run Linux.

I don't have problems with drivers, but then I only have an all-in-one printer, a couple of signalinks and a radio control cable plugged in at the moment. I've never used heavy duty contact management software, so I don't really know what's available in GNU/Linux or Android. As for desktop publishing, I was under the impression that Scribus was pretty good.

If your specific software doesn't run under a Linux distro, I can see why you'd need Windows.

As for gaming, there's consoles.

Still.. I don't have to worry about Win10 snooping :-)
I hate to burst your bubble but Consoles are about as lame as it gets.
No realism in graphics, poor frame rate..
Need to upgrade buy a new console.
Then there is the issue with poor screen performance since one is limited to using a television set in most cases. Latency, image blurring Nope Consoles are as lame as it gets.

I'll save linux for the obsolete tech.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KA1VF on August 27, 2015, 10:49:14 AM
Folks, go to the www.komando.com (Kim Komando) website and in the Search box
at the top right of the screen type in "Windows 10". note: you'll get about 7 Pages
of separate Windows 10 related articles. note: The article that you want here is the
one entitled "3 Windows 10 privacy gotchas".


                  73, and good luck

                       Bob



Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W4KYR on August 27, 2015, 11:05:56 AM
In defense of Linux, it is just another option, another operating system really. Sure Linux may not run some Windows programs. But those Windows programs cannot run on Mac or Android either but that doesn't stop those operating systems from being wildly popular.

What it boils down to is that the lack of Windows programs that can run on Linux is really an non issue, just like the lack of Windows programs that can run on the iPad or an Android tablet is an non issue.

If a person needs a Windows machine, they will own a Windows machine. If a person needs to run certain Windows programs, they will use a Windows computer.

Personally I don't believe anyone should limit themselves to just one operating system anyway. Just like I don't believe that one should restrict themselves to just Icom or just Yaesu products. Or restrict themselves to just VHF when there is a whole world out there.

All the most important Windows programs will not run on Linux. Some of them might run under "Wine". Or it may not run under Wine.  Does someone use a flat head screwdriver to turn a Phillips head screw? Of course not. We use the right tools for the applications at hand. Get as many tools as you can.

Linux is a good option, and has some advantages especially if you have older but perfectly good running computers but cannot run 7, 8 or 10. There are thousands of free apps and programs on Linux. There is no app store to register with or to join, and no phone home concerns to worry about. In addition there are a whole bunch of free Linux ham radio apps and programs that one can use under Linux.

Will Linux ever replace Windows? No.  Will the Android tablet or the iPad replace a Windows computer? No. (But some have gone onto use the iPad instead of their Windows machine).  Will there ever be a "year of the Linux Desktop'? No. Should we dismiss Linux because it can't run Windows programs or apps? No. We should not dismiss Linux and we should not dismiss Android or Mac.

Can some people do without a Windows computer? Yes they can. Should they? That is up to them. Like I said, some have gone on to using the iPad for everything they need, maybe except for doing taxes on line or financial spreadsheets. I say use whatever operating system you want. But never limit oneself to just one operating system.

Use all of them







Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 27, 2015, 11:24:25 AM
The real joke would be if you could actually get an accurate number on how many people use their computers for real work versus how many people use them for just web browsing and email.   IMHO I think the latter covers about 80% of home users and therefore Linux a Mac or anything else would work fine for them.   As a matter of fact many women that I know have gotten themselves a giant smart phone like a Samsung 5 or iPhone 6+ and they don't even use PC's anymore.

As for Windows 10 and snooping, people need to stop dreaming and wake up.  We have lots of Win7 machines and they are all sending out Data even when completely idle for hours.  They do this on a routine basis and that data has been captured and looked at and it is completely encrypted, all we know is that it's going to IP's registered to MS. And yes all updates etc have been turned off.  One young tech spent about a week stripping the OS down to looking for the source and had no luck.  Blocking ranges of IP's ended up to be the only solution.

73s
Rob




Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 11:30:10 AM
The real joke would be if you could actually get an accurate number on how many people use their computers for real work versus how many people use them for just web browsing and email.   IMHO I think the latter covers about 80% of home users and therefore Linux a Mac or anything else would work fine for them.   As a matter of fact many women that I know have gotten themselves a giant smart phone like a Samsung 5 or iPhone 6+ and they don't even use PC's anymore.

73s
Rob
I would have to agree when it comes to what people uuse their computers for. This one gets used for work and fun.
The trend toward "smart phones", has been a long time coming in Japan many people have been using smart phone like devices for a couple of decades now, along with palm top computers, a computer that fits in the palm of the hand, full keyboard and a joystick for a point device.

PC sales will decline until all that is left is a fraction of the usership still using PCs.



Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 11:44:04 AM
In defense of Linux, it is just another option, another operating system really. Sure Linux may not run some Windows programs. But those Windows programs cannot run on Mac or Android either but that doesn't stop those operating systems from being wildly popular.

What it boils down to is that the lack of Windows programs that can run on Linux is really an non issue, just like the lack of Windows programs that can run on the iPad or an Android tablet is an non issue.

If a person needs a Windows machine, they will own a Windows machine. If a person needs to run certain Windows programs, they will use a Windows computer.

Personally I don't believe anyone should limit themselves to just one operating system anyway. Just like I don't believe that one should restrict themselves to just Icom or just Yaesu products. Or restrict themselves to just VHF when there is a whole world out there.

All the most important Windows programs will not run on Linux. Some of them might run under "Wine". Or it may not run under Wine.  Does someone use a flat head screwdriver to turn a Phillips head screw? Of course not. We use the right tools for the applications at hand. Get as many tools as you can.

Linux is a good option, and has some advantages especially if you have older but perfectly good running computers but cannot run 7, 8 or 10. There are thousands of free apps and programs on Linux. There is no app store to register with or to join, and no phone home concerns to worry about. In addition there are a whole bunch of free Linux ham radio apps and programs that one can use under Linux.

Will Linux ever replace Windows? No.  Will the Android tablet or the iPad replace a Windows computer? No. (But some have gone onto use the iPad instead of their Windows machine).  Will there ever be a "year of the Linux Desktop'? No. Should we dismiss Linux because it can't run Windows programs or apps? No. We should not dismiss Linux and we should not dismiss Android or Mac.

Can some people do without a Windows computer? Yes they can. Should they? That is up to them. Like I said, some have gone on to using the iPad for everything they need, maybe except for doing taxes on line or financial spreadsheets. I say use whatever operating system you want. But never limit oneself to just one operating system.

Use all of them

I certainly agree with that each has their niche.
For most of the older crowd; people in my age group and older that didn't make the transition to computers at an early age an i-Pad meets most of their needs. I'm waiting for the right tablet to come out that I can load up with radio manuals and have at my workstation for repairing gear.

My firewall runs Linux; a ten year old box that use to run Vista now runs Smoothwall Express 3.1.
My Gateway laptop dual boots Vista / Ubuntu 14.XX. I don't have support for the built in camera, but that is fine, I never use it and never loaded the Gateway driver for the camera in Vista.

I have a client who uses a Windows box for business and has a 27" i-Mac for pleasure.

If I push my clients to do anything; it is to get what will fill their needs best.
Most use Windows and have work that needs done, the rest use whatever meets their needs best.



Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W4KYR on August 27, 2015, 11:59:19 AM


As for Windows 10 and snooping, people need to stop dreaming and wake up.  We have lots of Win7 machines and they are all sending out Data even when completely idle for hours. 
73s
Rob

Why weren't there any 'snooping' and "phone home to Microsoft" issues with Windows 7 and Windows 8?



Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 27, 2015, 03:40:36 PM


As for Windows 10 and snooping, people need to stop dreaming and wake up.  We have lots of Win7 machines and they are all sending out Data even when completely idle for hours. 
73s
Rob

Why weren't there any 'snooping' and "phone home to Microsoft" issues with Windows 7 and Windows 8?

There is a level of snooping going on with Win7, that's what I was saying.  When our techs tested Win8 it was a magnitude higher and nobody was impressed with it anyway so that was a non starter.  Win10 is a non starter because the EULA makes it clear that snooping will be happening at all levels, so we have not even bothered or should I say we have been told not to hook up a win 10 machine to our networks.

73s
Rob


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 05:27:59 PM


As for Windows 10 and snooping, people need to stop dreaming and wake up.  We have lots of Win7 machines and they are all sending out Data even when completely idle for hours. 
73s
Rob

Why weren't there any 'snooping' and "phone home to Microsoft" issues with Windows 7 and Windows 8?


Rumor has it there is now.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 05:37:55 PM


As for Windows 10 and snooping, people need to stop dreaming and wake up.  We have lots of Win7 machines and they are all sending out Data even when completely idle for hours. 
73s
Rob

Why weren't there any 'snooping' and "phone home to Microsoft" issues with Windows 7 and Windows 8?

There is a level of snooping going on with Win7, that's what I was saying.  When our techs tested Win8 it was a magnitude higher and nobody was impressed with it anyway so that was a non starter.  Win10 is a non starter because the EULA makes it clear that snooping will be happening at all levels, so we have not even bothered or should I say we have been told not to hook up a win 10 machine to our networks.

73s
Rob


Well there is that famous Joseph Goebbels quote; You have nothing to fear, if you have nothing to hide.
Windows 7 is being updated with all the Snoop-Ware in Windows 10.
At this point the age of privacy over the Internet is coming to a close.
If you want privacy there cannot be any connection to the Internet.

I suspect MS will or has made things in such a way that foning home will be a conditional to keeping the operating system operational like the Rege Worm was for not having a ligit copy of Win-XP.

There is already an uproar over private citizens and companies encrypting their data in ways the NSA can't easily crack. Unless something changes people won't even be able to run to Linux.




Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: WW7KE on August 27, 2015, 05:41:31 PM
In defense of Linux, it is just another option, another operating system really. Sure Linux may not run some Windows programs. But those Windows programs cannot run on Mac or Android either but that doesn't stop those operating systems from being wildly popular.

What it boils down to is that the lack of Windows programs that can run on Linux is really an non issue, just like the lack of Windows programs that can run on the iPad or an Android tablet is an non issue.

If a person needs a Windows machine, they will own a Windows machine. If a person needs to run certain Windows programs, they will use a Windows computer.

Personally I don't believe anyone should limit themselves to just one operating system anyway. Just like I don't believe that one should restrict themselves to just Icom or just Yaesu products. Or restrict themselves to just VHF when there is a whole world out there.

All the most important Windows programs will not run on Linux. Some of them might run under "Wine". Or it may not run under Wine.  Does someone use a flat head screwdriver to turn a Phillips head screw? Of course not. We use the right tools for the applications at hand. Get as many tools as you can.

Linux is a good option, and has some advantages especially if you have older but perfectly good running computers but cannot run 7, 8 or 10. There are thousands of free apps and programs on Linux. There is no app store to register with or to join, and no phone home concerns to worry about. In addition there are a whole bunch of free Linux ham radio apps and programs that one can use under Linux.

Will Linux ever replace Windows? No.  Will the Android tablet or the iPad replace a Windows computer? No. (But some have gone onto use the iPad instead of their Windows machine).  Will there ever be a "year of the Linux Desktop'? No. Should we dismiss Linux because it can't run Windows programs or apps? No. We should not dismiss Linux and we should not dismiss Android or Mac.

Can some people do without a Windows computer? Yes they can. Should they? That is up to them. Like I said, some have gone on to using the iPad for everything they need, maybe except for doing taxes on line or financial spreadsheets. I say use whatever operating system you want. But never limit oneself to just one operating system.

Use all of them

+1000 ;D

That post was the best perspective I've ever read on the Windows vs Linux vs everything else debate.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W8JX on August 27, 2015, 05:50:49 PM
You are snooped every time you get on Web and if you have a Facebook account all they do is snoop everything you do and sell that info to marketers. It is their major only source of income. You have bigger snoopers than MS to worry about!!! If you do not want to be snooped stay off Web and live in a cave.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 06:07:03 PM
You are snooped every time you get on Web and if you have a Facebook account all they do is snoop everything you do and sell that info to marketers. It is their major only source of income. You have bigger snoopers than MS to worry about!!! If you do not want to be snooped stay off Web and live in a cave.

That is always why I give out as much wrong or misinformation as possiable.
Like I said we use to call this The World Wide Wiretap.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 27, 2015, 06:11:21 PM

Well there is that famous Joseph Goebbels quote; You have nothing to fear, if you have nothing to hide.
Windows 7 is being updated with all the Snoop-Ware in Windows 10.
At this point the age of privacy over the Internet is coming to a close.
If you want privacy there cannot be any connection to the Internet.


Everyone has something they want to hide, it could be your credit card numbers. SS#, personal medical info or in the case of companies it can be projects or financial data.

You can still be on the net and have privacy, it just requires having a seperate intranet for R&D machines and another  network for connected machines in other departments.  Also good firewalls implemented on dedicated internet servers can make it so painfull to hack that no one will even bother trying, and if they do they won't find much because the machines with the good stuff are not on the same network.

As for free email accounts and Facebook, Twitter etc. those are for people who don't seem to care if everything they type is available to the highest bidder.

73
Rob


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W8JX on August 27, 2015, 06:22:28 PM
As for free email accounts and Facebook, Twitter etc. those are for people who don't seem to care if everything they type is available to the highest bidder.

Many do not know or want to believe it.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 27, 2015, 06:59:42 PM
As for free email accounts and Facebook, Twitter etc. those are for people who don't seem to care if everything they type is available to the highest bidder.

Many do not know or want to believe it.

That is true!  I have had that conversation with so many people and they all look at me like I need a Tin Foil Hat :D  I stopped preaching it to friends a long time ago, I just say to them if you want to know how much stuff they are gathering go onto Netflix and watch "Terms and conditions may apply".  Human nature at work, even those with Netflix do not want to watch it, they just do not want to face reality.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AC2EU on August 27, 2015, 07:03:37 PM
As for free email accounts and Facebook, Twitter etc. those are for people who don't seem to care if everything they type is available to the highest bidder.

Many do not know or want to believe it.

Yet you are the #1 advocate of the data vacuum AKA win10?  The more snoops and junk apps I turn off, the more I find! Who needs the Patriot act or NSA data mining when there is Win10 ?


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 07:12:41 PM

Well there is that famous Joseph Goebbels quote; You have nothing to fear, if you have nothing to hide.
Windows 7 is being updated with all the Snoop-Ware in Windows 10.
At this point the age of privacy over the Internet is coming to a close.
If you want privacy there cannot be any connection to the Internet.


Everyone has something they want to hide, it could be your credit card numbers. SS#, personal medical info or in the case of companies it can be projects or financial data.

You can still be on the net and have privacy, it just requires having a seperate intranet for R&D machines and another  network for connected machines in other departments.  Also good firewalls implemented on dedicated internet servers can make it so painfull to hack that no one will even bother trying, and if they do they won't find much because the machines with the good stuff are not on the same network.

As for free email accounts and Facebook, Twitter etc. those are for people who don't seem to care if everything they type is available to the highest bidder.

73
Rob

Yup..


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 27, 2015, 07:22:31 PM
Who needs the Patriot act or NSA data mining when there is Win10 ?

The scary part is that the fact that the EULA gives them the right and you have absolutely no recourse.  This is a guess on my part, but I would bet that before Win10 they might have had the Data in front of them but could not act on it because of the way it was obtained.  Now with Win10 I suspect a lot more people might be hauled into court for stupid stuff, like having down loaded songs or movies.

And off the subject:
I have to say/rant that after watching that movie massacre guy get 1000+ years in prison I am kind of annoyed with the system.  An obvious murderer yet we spend a few million dollars on a trial and the another couple of million feeding and housing him until he dies of old age.  We could have had justice for under a $1 and used the millions to feed a village of starving kids for life!

73s
Rob


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 27, 2015, 07:50:44 PM
Who needs the Patriot act or NSA data mining when there is Win10 ?

The scary part is that the fact that the EULA gives them the right and you have absolutely no recourse.  This is a guess on my part, but I would bet that before Win10 they might have had the Data in front of them but could not act on it because of the way it was obtained.  Now with Win10 I suspect a lot more people might be hauled into court for stupid stuff, like having down loaded songs or movies.

And off the subject:
I have to say/rant that after watching that movie massacre guy get 1000+ years in prison I am kind of annoyed with the system.  An obvious murderer yet we spend a few million dollars on a trial and the another couple of million feeding and housing him until he dies of old age.  We could have had justice for under a $1 and used the millions to feed a village of starving kids for life!

73s
Rob


I am sure you would want your due process.


As for the Win-Ten snooping, you haven't spent much time looking into Android or ISO smart phones have you, believe me the degree of snooping and lack of recourse is just as bad.
Glad I have a dumb phone..


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 27, 2015, 10:50:34 PM


I am sure you would want your due process.

Criminals thrive on the compassion of society.

Quote
As for the Win-Ten snooping, you haven't spent much time looking into Android or ISO smart phones have you, believe me the degree of snooping and lack of recourse is just as bad.
Glad I have a dumb phone..

No I use an iPhone.  At the very least Apple does not "seem" to be very interested in playing ball with the NSA and they certainly are not selling info to advertisers.

73s
Rob


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W8JX on August 28, 2015, 05:45:14 AM
As for free email accounts and Facebook, Twitter etc. those are for people who don't seem to care if everything they type is available to the highest bidder.

Many do not know or want to believe it.

Yet you are the #1 advocate of the data vacuum AKA win10?  The more snoops and junk apps I turn off, the more I find! Who needs the Patriot act or NSA data mining when there is Win10 ?

Once again Facebook and many web sites are far bigger threats but you seem to fixate on MS as being the root of all web evil. I am hard on 7 because it is a dead end OS with zero future is cross platform world. MS knows this and that is why free upgrade to 10 to be able to push cross platform WINRT apps out (that are not supported by 7) and hopefully boost sales of their tablets and smart phones as they share and work alike. Its funny you worry about government possibly snooping yet you would want them to know about a attack before hand yet you do not want them to snoop some. What then telepathy?


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KK4GGL on August 28, 2015, 06:09:33 AM
As for free email accounts and Facebook, Twitter etc. those are for people who don't seem to care if everything they type is available to the highest bidder.

Many do not know or want to believe it.

Yet you are the #1 advocate of the data vacuum AKA win10?  The more snoops and junk apps I turn off, the more I find! Who needs the Patriot act or NSA data mining when there is Win10 ?

Once again Facebook and many web sites are far bigger threats but you seem to fixate on MS as being the root of all web evil.

They may not be the root, but they have been at it a long time.

I am hard on 7 because it is a dead end OS with zero future is cross platform world.

Which does not matter if a person is not running cross-platform applications.

MS knows this and that is why free upgrade to 10 to be able to push cross platform WINRT apps out (that are not supported by 7) and hopefully boost sales of their tablets and smart phones as they share and work alike. Its funny you worry about government possibly snooping yet you would want them to know about a attack before hand yet you do not want them to snoop some. What then telepathy?

I can't speak for others, but I want them to properly secure and execute warrants, as outlined in the Constitution, not secret warrants from secret courts with virtually no oversight.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W8JX on August 28, 2015, 06:22:10 AM
They may not be the root, but they have been at it a long time.

Stay in a cave and of Internet. There are far bigger threats with Facebook being a very big one. You will never find me there.

I can't speak for others, but I want them to properly secure and execute warrants, as outlined in the Constitution, not secret warrants from secret courts with virtually no oversight.

What are you more worried about, a little privacy lost or having a mall blow up where you live. You want to make it easier for sleeper cell to hide and operate. This is a different world and they threat today were not even remotely seen when constitution was written. With terrorist activities by time you get a warrant it is usually too late. You know a funny thing is there was a intercept of a transmission on 911 one day before it happened. It seemed no one acted on it for a few days and when it made it to media it was quickly squashed (made GOV look very bad) and hard to find any trace of this advent now.

Which does not matter if a person is not running cross-platform applications.

Does not matter. most new apps will be written for cross platform and will not run on 7 but then you can use your old OS and old apps in your old cave with head in the sand and be left behind.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: G8YMW on August 28, 2015, 06:53:32 AM


Does not matter. most new apps will be written for cross platform and will not run on 7 but then you can use your old OS and old apps in your old cave with head in the sand and be left behind.
And the consequence of being left behind is???
I'd sooner have a PROGRAM as opposed to a castrated program aka "app"


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: N9FB on August 28, 2015, 07:04:51 AM

I can't speak for others, but I want them to properly secure and execute warrants, as outlined in the Constitution, not secret warrants from secret courts with virtually no oversight.

What are you more worried about, a little privacy lost or having a mall blow up where you live. You want to make it easier for sleeper cell to hide and operate. This is a different world and they threat today were not even remotely seen when constitution was written. With terrorist activities by time you get a warrant it is usually too late. You know a funny thing is there was a intercept of a transmission on 911 one day before it happened. It seemed no one acted on it for a few days and when it made it to media it was quickly squashed (made GOV look very bad) and hard to find any trace of this advent now.


we had the intel long before that, Bush admin just did not take seriously the intel which said bin Laden the was intent on hijacking planes to attack.  Bush's terrorism czar is on record about having his warnings fall on deaf ears at the White House.  wasn't it 1994 when bin Laden almost blew up the WTC from the basement(?)...

the Constitution was not written with respect to specifics as mush as it was a philosophical stance on principles by which a govt should govern.  The Bill of Rights draws an important line between illegal searches and seizures to protect liberty.  (NSA is seizing private data w/out probable cause and warehousing it so even if you trust the govt is only taking it to counter terrorism threats --there is still the potential for terrorists to gain access to it by hacking from outside or within -- just consider how much 3rd party contracting the defense dept does these days! let alone insiders). 

Ben Franklin's quote -- Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety -- applies well here.  Terrorists pretty much know everything on the internet is surveilled anyway and have acted under that assumption even before 911 (bin Laden for example used message carriers not cell phones). 

And, the FBI and CIA can easily get warrants to tap whatever they want if there exists a true threat.  The issue is that an agency like the NSA -- given the carte blanche budget and mission that they have -- wants every tool that is possible without regard to concern over anyone's Constitutional liberties. The govt is only as good as its checks and balances.  Eisenhower warned us about the complex we have now. http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html (http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html)

Let a guy like McCarthy get in power again and give him NSA capabilities and people willing to allow our govt to search and seize whatever they like and the witch hunts will destroy us from within all in the name of saving us from threats without.   And if you try to defend our liberties like Snowden did you will be misrepresented as an enemy of the state. Unfortunately appeals to lowest common denominators (like fear of terrorist attack) carry far more sway power with the masses. How much more money do we spend on 'defense' each year than the entire non-USA world while our infrastructure crumbles?


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KK4GGL on August 28, 2015, 07:05:45 AM
They may not be the root, but they have been at it a long time.

Stay in a cave and of Internet. There are far bigger threats with Facebook being a very big one. You will never find me there.

I doubt Facebook is any bigger threat than Microsoft. Still, I try to use Microsoft OSes and Facebook as little as possible.

I can't speak for others, but I want them to properly secure and execute warrants, as outlined in the Constitution, not secret warrants from secret courts with virtually no oversight.
What are you more worried about, a little privacy lost or having a mall blow up where you live.

There's no such thing as losing a little privacy.

You want to make it easier for sleeper cell to hide and operate.

I find that highly offensive. Seriously.

This is a different world and they threat today were not even remotely seen when constitution was written. With terrorist activities by time you get a warrant it is usually too late.

And just how do --you-- know this? How many warrants have --you--applied for?

You know a funny thing is there was a intercept of a transmission on 911 one day before it happened. It seemed no one acted on it for a few days and when it made it to media it was quickly squashed (made GOV look very bad) and hard to find any trace of this advent now.

It's not funny at all being a symbol of too much secrecy and over reach.

Which does not matter if a person is not running cross-platform applications.

Does not matter. most new apps will be written for cross platform and will not run on 7 but then you can use your old OS and old apps in your old cave with head in the sand and be left behind.

Since you have all this money to run out and buy all this new stuff why don't you start spreading around some?

I see you have not figured out the concept of people using --what works for them-- regardless of how old it is. BTW, put any radials down yet?


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: N9FB on August 28, 2015, 07:20:19 AM
Quote from: KK4GGL (replying to W8JX)

Since you have all this money to run out and buy all this new stuff why don't you start spreading around some?

BTW, put any radials down yet?


how do you expect him to have money for radials when he buys every latest technology that comes out to not be left behind? i mean he surely has the latest engine technology in his car, the latest washing machine, refrigerator, HVAC, roofing materials, clothing, audio, video, home security, etc, etc, etc.  give the guy a break!    :P


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AC2EU on August 28, 2015, 07:31:53 AM
They may not be the root, but they have been at it a long time.

Stay in a cave and of Internet. There are far bigger threats with Facebook being a very big one. You will never find me there.

I can't speak for others, but I want them to properly secure and execute warrants, as outlined in the Constitution, not secret warrants from secret courts with virtually no oversight.

What are you more worried about, a little privacy lost or having a mall blow up where you live. You want to make it easier for sleeper cell to hide and operate. This is a different world and they threat today were not even remotely seen when constitution was written. With terrorist activities by time you get a warrant it is usually too late. You know a funny thing is there was a intercept of a transmission on 911 one day before it happened. It seemed no one acted on it for a few days and when it made it to media it was quickly squashed (made GOV look very bad) and hard to find any trace of this advent now.

Which does not matter if a person is not running cross-platform applications.

Does not matter. most new apps will be written for cross platform and will not run on 7 but then you can use your old OS and old apps in your old cave with head in the sand and be left behind.

A yes, the views of a fascist who believes that a omniscient, omnipotent government is a good thing!
Do you really think that the govt is keeping malls or aircraft from blowing up? Have you read about TSA performance?
You, sir, must be the one living in a cave!
Obviously, public safety is not their #1 objective...


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W8JX on August 28, 2015, 08:16:01 AM
A yes, the views of a fascist who believes that a omniscient, omnipotent government is a good thing!
Do you really think that the govt is keeping malls or aircraft from blowing up? Have you read about TSA performance?
You, sir, must be the one living in a cave!
Obviously, public safety is not their #1 objective...

You are because TSA is not the snoopers that stop that stuff. It is the ones they never talk about and kinda do not exist. You take a lot for granted.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K5TED on August 28, 2015, 08:25:49 AM
You might want to consider this....


http://www.tenforums.com/general-discussion/5880-conspiracy.html


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AF6LJ on August 28, 2015, 08:32:19 AM
A yes, the views of a fascist who believes that a omniscient, omnipotent government is a good thing!
Do you really think that the govt is keeping malls or aircraft from blowing up? Have you read about TSA performance?
You, sir, must be the one living in a cave!
Obviously, public safety is not their #1 objective...

You are because TSA is not the snoopers that stop that stuff. It is the ones they never talk about and kinda do not exist. You take a lot for granted.

No Such Agency

He is right about one thing the TSA and the Department of Homo-Land Security are completely incompetent. You can walk through airport security with a knife in your purse (well I am female and carry a purse) and they won't find it. Same with pepper spray which I carry all the time.
What was laughable a girlfriend and I (Not that kind of girlfriend) went to Las Vegas, She was puulled aside for additional screening, they let me go through with a metal nail file and pepper spray.

This is all theater not real security like they have in Israel.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 28, 2015, 12:34:51 PM
As for free email accounts and Facebook, Twitter etc. those are for people who don't seem to care if everything they type is available to the highest bidder.

Many do not know or want to believe it.

Yet you are the #1 advocate of the data vacuum AKA win10?  The more snoops and junk apps I turn off, the more I find! Who needs the Patriot act or NSA data mining when there is Win10 ?

Once again Facebook and many web sites are far bigger threats but you seem to fixate on MS as being the root of all web evil. I am hard on 7 because it is a dead end OS with zero future is cross platform world. MS knows this and that is why free upgrade to 10 to be able to push cross platform WINRT apps out (that are not supported by 7) and hopefully boost sales of their tablets and smart phones as they share and work alike. Its funny you worry about government possibly snooping yet you would want them to know about a attack before hand yet you do not want them to snoop some. What then telepathy?

The only reason MS is not the root of all evil is because most of their customer base has moved there day to day personal info onto phones and tablets.  So Apple and Android based companies are now the one's with the greatest access.  If MS was still in the drivers seat they would most likely be doing what they do best.

As for your ideas that MS is some sort of good guy, you must not have been around in the 1990's when MS was persuading people to write software for their OS.  Yes it was great time for MS!  Once someone came up with a good software program MS would steal it and integrate it into one of their own products.   That's why when Apple came up with the App store they  had to go out of their way on day one to make sure independent programmers would be guaranteed that they would be well compensated for their work and that Apple would buy anything they believed was really good for integration into IOS.  On the other hand MS burned so many people in the Windows freeware and shareware markets that they never recovered and most MS freeware/shareware stuff is now just a bunch of Trojans left to screw over any unfortunate soul that installs them.

73s
Rob


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W8JX on August 29, 2015, 08:18:37 AM
As for free email accounts and Facebook, Twitter etc. those are for people who don't seem to care if everything they type is available to the highest bidder.

Many do not know or want to believe it.

Yet you are the #1 advocate of the data vacuum AKA win10?  The more snoops and junk apps I turn off, the more I find! Who needs the Patriot act or NSA data mining when there is Win10 ?

Once again Facebook and many web sites are far bigger threats but you seem to fixate on MS as being the root of all web evil. I am hard on 7 because it is a dead end OS with zero future is cross platform world. MS knows this and that is why free upgrade to 10 to be able to push cross platform WINRT apps out (that are not supported by 7) and hopefully boost sales of their tablets and smart phones as they share and work alike. Its funny you worry about government possibly snooping yet you would want them to know about a attack before hand yet you do not want them to snoop some. What then telepathy?

The only reason MS is not the root of all evil is because most of their customer base has moved there day to day personal info onto phones and tablets.  So Apple and Android based companies are now the one's with the greatest access.  If MS was still in the drivers seat they would most likely be doing what they do best.

As for your ideas that MS is some sort of good guy, you must not have been around in the 1990's when MS was persuading people to write software for their OS.  Yes it was great time for MS!  Once someone came up with a good software program MS would steal it and integrate it into one of their own products.   That's why when Apple came up with the App store they  had to go out of their way on day one to make sure independent programmers would be guaranteed that they would be well compensated for their work and that Apple would buy anything they believed was really good for integration into IOS.  On the other hand MS burned so many people in the Windows freeware and shareware markets that they never recovered and most MS freeware/shareware stuff is now just a bunch of Trojans left to screw over any unfortunate soul that installs them.

73s
Rob


Not that MS is a good guy in a white hat but they do not have a black hat like Facebook and Apple. Apple snooops a lot and when caught they say it was a mistake. Over a year ago a hacker found that Apple was secretly tracking everywhere you went and did with your phone. Rather than admit that the cleverly coded and deeply hidden apps was no mistake, they played it off as a mistake. WHo knows what other hidden Apple snoops there are. Once again every time you log intp facebook it knows where you are at and if client is running in back ground it knows what you are doing when surfing. And you are worried about MS??? Thats a laugh.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 29, 2015, 03:45:46 PM
Not that MS is a good guy in a white hat but they do not have a black hat like Facebook and Apple. Apple snooops a lot and when caught they say it was a mistake. Over a year ago a hacker found that Apple was secretly tracking everywhere you went and did with your phone. Rather than admit that the cleverly coded and deeply hidden apps was no mistake, they played it off as a mistake. WHo knows what other hidden Apple snoops there are. Once again every time you log intp facebook it knows where you are at and if client is running in back ground it knows what you are doing when surfing. And you are worried about MS??? Thats a laugh.

Lets not blow this out of the water.  Yes Apple phones track your location, so do all the other smart phones on the market.  Most Phones put your current location in an easy to find file so that other applications like the Camera, Weather Apps etc can use the info if they need to.
Apple method was definitely much more aggressive than your typical phone, and I am not going to say that they may not have had some other plans but a few things make it a lot different than an MS tactic.

1) The file was not hidden or encrypted

2) Their is a menu option to turn it off (and yes it is off, I have looked at the file and the data stopped when I hit the switch)

3)  Keep in mind that iPhone owners had been asking Apple for a method of tracking stolen phones for years.  A continual trailing file might have been an early attempt at that.

Info on turning it off for those who want to.
http://www.igeeksblog.com/how-to-turn-off-ios-7-frequent-locations-tracking/

73s
Rob


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: VK6IS on January 08, 2016, 08:45:35 AM
so, it's taken a few months, but some revelations from Microsoft:

"Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking":
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35251484
- The firm also said that Windows 10 was now active on over 200 million devices.
- until now though, relatively little has been known about what data is being collected.

Microsoft also reported that Windows 10 continued to be the fastest growing version of Windows,
- outpacing the adoption of both Windows 8 and Windows 7.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W8JX on January 08, 2016, 09:10:01 AM
so, it's taken a few months, but some revelations from Microsoft:

"Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking":
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35251484
- The firm also said that Windows 10 was now active on over 200 million devices.
- until now though, relatively little has been known about what data is being collected.

Microsoft also reported that Windows 10 continued to be the fastest growing version of Windows,
- outpacing the adoption of both Windows 8 and Windows 7.

When you use express setup it sends a lot of telemetry mostly on web stuff and health of OS but if you use custom install you can disable a lot of it, I have monitored my network connection on this laptop I upgraded from 8.1 to 10 several days ago and there is no telemetry streaming out and actually the connection seems less active than with 8.1. Many that claim there is a problem never actually looked to see if data is flowing.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on January 08, 2016, 01:11:20 PM
Microsoft also reported that Windows 10 continued to be the fastest growing version of Windows,
- outpacing the adoption of both Windows 8 and Windows 7.

At first glance you could look at that statement and get excited for Microsoft, but in fact it really is not as good as they would like you to think.   First of all this is a FREE OS for most people yet most people are still not taking them up on the offer. As of Dec 2015 Win7 is still at 55% market share and Win 10 is at 9.96% which is still lower than the 10% of people that use XP.

Secondly MS is nagging Win7 Users and Win8 users to death with prompts to upgrade.  This kind of forceful action should not be required when a person is running Version 7 of a product and is being offered version 10 for free, yet it is happening and not with the kind of success that I think MS was looking for.

73s
Rob



Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W8JX on January 08, 2016, 01:23:27 PM
Microsoft also reported that Windows 10 continued to be the fastest growing version of Windows,
- outpacing the adoption of both Windows 8 and Windows 7.

At first glance you could look at that statement and get excited for Microsoft, but in fact it really is not as good as they would like you to think.   First of all this is a FREE OS for most people yet most people are still not taking them up on the offer. As of Dec 2015 Win7 is still at 55% market share and Win 10 is at 9.96% which is still lower than the 10% of people that use XP.

Secondly MS is nagging Win7 Users and Win8 users to death with prompts to upgrade.  This kind of forceful action should not be required when a person is running Version 7 of a product and is being offered version 10 for free, yet it is happening and not with the kind of success that I think MS was looking for.

73s
Rob



As usually you totally miss the point why it is free. MS dropped ball and clung to XP/7 way too long andmissed the ship for smart phones and tablets big time. 7 is a DEAD end in multi-platform world and MS knows it and the more 10 they get out there the more they are likely to generate interest in their tablets and smart phones. But as usually you think it is some grand scheme to spy or something. You are pretty clueless Rob.   


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: G8YMW on January 08, 2016, 01:51:40 PM
Microsoft also reported that Windows 10 continued to be the fastest growing version of Windows,
- outpacing the adoption of both Windows 8 and Windows 7.

At first glance you could look at that statement and get excited for Microsoft, but in fact it really is not as good as they would like you to think.   First of all this is a FREE OS for most people yet most people are still not taking them up on the offer. As of Dec 2015 Win7 is still at 55% market share and Win 10 is at 9.96% which is still lower than the 10% of people that use XP.

Secondly MS is nagging Win7 Users and Win8 users to death with prompts to upgrade.  This kind of forceful action should not be required when a person is running Version 7 of a product and is being offered version 10 for free, yet it is happening and not with the kind of success that I think MS was looking for.

73s
Rob



As usually you totally miss the point why it is free. MS dropped ball and clung to XP/7 way too long andmissed the ship for smart phones and tablets big time. 7 is a DEAD end in multi-platform world and MS knows it and the more 10 they get out there the more they are likely to generate interest in their tablets and smart phones. But as usually you think it is some grand scheme to spy or something. You are pretty clueless Rob.   

The only ball dropping Microsoft did was to ABANDON  XP and 7 and go for their version of multiplatform.
They learned nothing from their touch tablets running Windows CE. They learned nothing from their exploits in the phone market. They are still persisting with Metro ( or is it modern or is it Universal Apps or has it got another name) No one is bothering with apps for the Windows Store and who is going to buy a Winzip clone from the store if it is freeware outside of the store.
Windows Phone 10 is going to tank just the same as all previous Windows phones did.
Hell even the sacked Steve Ballmer now says Metro was a mistake and Microsoft could save a shedload of money by making Windows phones run Android apps


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on January 08, 2016, 05:08:25 PM
Microsoft also reported that Windows 10 continued to be the fastest growing version of Windows,
- outpacing the adoption of both Windows 8 and Windows 7.

At first glance you could look at that statement and get excited for Microsoft, but in fact it really is not as good as they would like you to think.   First of all this is a FREE OS for most people yet most people are still not taking them up on the offer. As of Dec 2015 Win7 is still at 55% market share and Win 10 is at 9.96% which is still lower than the 10% of people that use XP.

Secondly MS is nagging Win7 Users and Win8 users to death with prompts to upgrade.  This kind of forceful action should not be required when a person is running Version 7 of a product and is being offered version 10 for free, yet it is happening and not with the kind of success that I think MS was looking for.

73s
Rob



As usually you totally miss the point why it is free. MS dropped ball and clung to XP/7 way too long andmissed the ship for smart phones and tablets big time. 7 is a DEAD end in multi-platform world and MS knows it and the more 10 they get out there the more they are likely to generate interest in their tablets and smart phones. But as usually you think it is some grand scheme to spy or something. You are pretty clueless Rob.   

The only ball dropping Microsoft did was to ABANDON  XP and 7 and go for their version of multiplatform.
They learned nothing from their touch tablets running Windows CE. They learned nothing from their exploits in the phone market. They are still persisting with Metro ( or is it modern or is it Universal Apps or has it got another name) No one is bothering with apps for the Windows Store and who is going to buy a Winzip clone from the store if it is freeware outside of the store.
Windows Phone 10 is going to tank just the same as all previous Windows phones did.
Hell even the sacked Steve Ballmer now says Metro was a mistake and Microsoft could save a shedload of money by making Windows phones run Android apps

Exactly!  I just had a IT friend who was running Win8.1 call me and tell me, that I was right and that he just went back to Win7 on his laptop.  I asked him why and he said he just cannot take the way it works anymore and he is so much more productive at his job when using Win7 (BTW no need to lecture him on Win10, his company told him not to bring any machine running it to work).

IMHO  MS will most likely wake up and realize what the problem is with Win10, it will take a year or two and they will wonder why so much of the market is still using Win7.  Then a light bulb will go off and they will create Win11 and get rid of the spying and start charging again for a real desktop OS.

73s
Rob


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: N9FB on February 05, 2016, 03:17:54 PM
interesting video interview of John McAfee (McAfee Antivirus Software Founder) about privacy awareness ("we have to take privacy & security into our own hands"):
https://youtu.be/fKP0C8zA7_Q (https://youtu.be/fKP0C8zA7_Q)

another, 2-year old interview of McAfee, apparently he is working on a project to protect computer users not just from hackers and viruses, but from govt spying:
https://youtu.be/axrBUSTh1i0




Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KX4OM on February 05, 2016, 05:12:59 PM
What will they do if you don't upgrade tonight????

http://www.howtogeek.com/241329/upgrade-now-or-upgrade-tonight-how-microsoft-has-aggressively-pushed-windows-10-to-everyone/

Ted, KX4OM


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: VK6IS on February 05, 2016, 05:42:09 PM
the current question though, is if this thing downloaded "without permission",
which is what Microsoft now seems to be doing, is:

Q:  'what happens if you click on the Decline  icon, on the licence screen?'.

- does it then abort the installation, temporarily or permanently ??.
probably only temporarily, & has another go at the installation,
after a short period of time. ..

Note: for those who have installed it, yet:
http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/GwxControlPanelSetup.exe
will dispose of the thing, permanently.
- which has been already mentioned, elsewhere.

 


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KD8MJR on February 05, 2016, 06:43:59 PM
What will they do if you don't upgrade tonight????

http://www.howtogeek.com/241329/upgrade-now-or-upgrade-tonight-how-microsoft-has-aggressively-pushed-windows-10-to-everyone/

Ted, KX4OM

If you have updates turned off and leave it off they will do nothing!
If MS was to suddenly update users PC's without permission they would have a firestorm of bad PR plus they would be sued by thousands of people who would claim that some valuable piece of software no longer works or was destroyed.  It would open them up to litigation from every person who had an Axe to grind and as I said the Negative PR alone would be devastating.

73s
Rob



Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: N9FB on February 05, 2016, 06:55:17 PM
tks for the update on the aggressive windows 10 push -- reminds me of the kudzu vine...

I have one Windows 7 PC and wish it to remain that way.  for good measure I installed the GWX 10 shield software. (even though i have set Windows not to automatically update)
Hopefully that keeps this nasty vine from taking over my old growth PC LOL

i am stuck with 10 on this new machine i am using to type this...  :-\


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: VK6IS on February 05, 2016, 11:23:46 PM
if you are stuck with 10 on the new machine,
then now install "classic shell";
http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/
that’ll fix that issue, as well.

which was the 'standard fix' on win-8x,
& works just as well on win-10.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KX4OM on February 06, 2016, 10:00:54 AM
Another user experience (Windows 10 Enterprise) reported by Slashdot:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/02/06/1550249/even-with-telemetry-disabled-windows-10-talks-to-dozens-of-microsoft-servers

Ted, KX4OM


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W2BLC on February 06, 2016, 04:27:02 PM
Everything you do on the Internet is being watched - why worry about what MS is doing? Too minuscule to be concerned over. Most of it is all about dollars and advertising - clogging up the Internet, your inbox, and all the on-screen litter you get to view. Learn how to block it on your screen and block unwanted emails. It is not rocket science.

 


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7EXJ on February 07, 2016, 05:52:15 PM
Everything you do on the Internet is being watched - why worry about what MS is doing?

MS is in the unique position of being able to see EVERYTHING you do on your computer. Every keyboard entry, every mouse click, even mouse-over. No "app" can do that. MS can know what you've downloaded, who you email, who emails you; even when you use Gmail. Even if you encrypt.

The amount of information MS can collect from its direct access to your operating system is far greater than what can be gleaned by scraping web sites or watching Facebook.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W2BLC on February 08, 2016, 04:24:53 AM
......... and NSA is in bed with them?  Perhaps that is why the great push to get everyone on Win10???  Time to cut the wires and move back into the cave!

Got a grocery store (drug store, etc.) membership card? It tracks every purchase you make - and customizes the ads and coupons just for you.

Just think, soon the department of health will send you a notice that your eating habits need improvement - based upon your grocery store purchases!!!


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AC7CW on February 08, 2016, 07:38:54 PM
Whitelisting firewalls are the best way to prevent snooping and intrusions, when they work properly. You simply close off the internet then allow the url's you want. Starting off with the entire internet open and closing off the unwanted stuff is entirely an overwhelming task, as evidenced by all the hacking that goes on. I find it very difficult to find a good conversation about whitelisting, in fact it seems to be sort of taboo? I think that security experts don't like it because it doesn't generate much work for them? The problem with whitelisting is that it's a hassle to work with and you wind up wanting to only apply it to machines with a very narrow focus. It probably would be fine for a computer dedicated to ham radio stuff.

I had Panda software that had a whitelisting aspect to it but it was very ineffective, hackers could get past it with ease. Whitelisting hardware firewalls are hard to find and some are even harder to work with.

The DNS system can be bypassed entirely if one just pings a url, captures the numerical ip address and uses that in the firewall. The DNS system is an easy vector for hacking. Hackers can simply change the lookup of a website's name to direct to their site, make it look the same and capture what you do. Your internet provider has a DNS and there are others connected to the backbone, I'd not use the local one at all, I recommend OpenDNS, not that I have any idea how secure it is but at least it's open.

I had XP computers behind a numerical ip address whitelisted hardware firewall for a long time. I didn't allow microsoft in or out at all, no updates for the life of the machines and they ran flawlessly for their entire lives. I didn't allow microsoft in even to register the OS install, I did it over the phone. Identical machines with the normal blacklisting firewalls and updates were always acting up...


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: N9FB on February 08, 2016, 08:57:58 PM
I found this article interesting in that it specifically mentions "Microsoft’s 12,000-word service agreement" and links to it here:
 
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/servicesagreement/default.aspx (https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/servicesagreement/default.aspx)

source: http://technerdreview.com/windows-is-spying-on-almost-everything-you-do-here-is-how-to-opt-out/ (http://technerdreview.com/windows-is-spying-on-almost-everything-you-do-here-is-how-to-opt-out/)


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W2BLC on February 09, 2016, 03:59:43 AM
Be careful of the helpful downloads - they are adware that installs crippled software, requiring the user to purchase the full package - RIPOFF!!!!!


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7EXJ on February 09, 2016, 05:49:12 AM
For a system that is in use, setting up whitelists in a router will seriously impede the usefulness of the computers that use that router. Any new URL would have to be looked up first using "ping" (on any Windows machines - which lack the basic tools like "dig" or even "nslookup") then entered into the access control list as "allowed". The most annoying thing about this would be the large numbers of other IP addresses that are commonly loaded when a web browser is directed at modern web sites.

In fact, MS does this for Internet Explorer in new installs of Server 2012 and it takes me several minutes just to get IE to go to Mozilla in order to download and install Firefox so I can continue the installation. Every single IP address has to be individually "allowed". It is a major PITA.

But if you are using a computer as adjunct to your amateur radio then you might find it useful.

I think it's simply easier - and far more secure - to run Linux. Or, if you simply must use a Windows machine then use that for your ham radio tools and then use a Keyboard/Video/Mouse switch to use a Linux computer for outside browsing. (This, by the way, is what security agencies - CIA, DIA, NSA, etc. do; one computer for outside browsing and the other computer for the secure network and never the twain do meet).

Configure the Windows machine to not have a default gateway and not have a DNS server and it will never find MS in order to call home.






Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: AC7CW on February 10, 2016, 05:05:10 PM
For a system that is in use, setting up whitelists in a router will seriously impede the usefulness of the computers that use that router. Any new URL would have to be looked up first using "ping" (on any Windows machines - which lack the basic tools like "dig" or even "nslookup") then entered into the access control list as "allowed". The most annoying thing about this would be the large numbers of other IP addresses that are commonly loaded when a web browser is directed at modern web sites.

In fact, MS does this for Internet Explorer in new installs of Server 2012 and it takes me several minutes just to get IE to go to Mozilla in order to download and install Firefox so I can continue the installation. Every single IP address has to be individually "allowed". It is a major PITA.

But if you are using a computer as adjunct to your amateur radio then you might find it useful.

I think it's simply easier - and far more secure - to run Linux. Or, if you simply must use a Windows machine then use that for your ham radio tools and then use a Keyboard/Video/Mouse switch to use a Linux computer for outside browsing. (This, by the way, is what security agencies - CIA, DIA, NSA, etc. do; one computer for outside browsing and the other computer for the secure network and never the twain do meet).

Configure the Windows machine to not have a default gateway and not have a DNS server and it will never find MS in order to call home.






Whitelisting is best with a computer that has a very narrow focus of operation. The older FireStarter firewall setup program for linux made whitelisting very easy to do, it seemed like what superseded it was a little on the difficult side, haven't looked at it lately. I looked at Windows firewall about a year ago and essentially it can whitelist if memory serves. Panda software could whitelist by asking the user for the ok on any new url then adding it to the whitelist. Good idea but easy to hack, I had it all properly set up on a computer, installed a utility to see what connections were made and found I was wired to two notorious hacking sites!


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7EXJ on February 10, 2016, 05:44:59 PM
I'm going to start a thread for this but for anyone who is following this and wants to rid themselves of the "windows 10 upgrade begathon popups" you can go to this site for instructions:

http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-do-you-disable-the-get-windows-10-icon-shown-in-the-notification-tray/

And to this site for the free utility that will do it:

http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

I have not yet tried them but the scenario looks reasonable. I'll be doing several computers tommorrow.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: N9FB on February 10, 2016, 07:31:26 PM
so i thought i had my PC to make it so updates are not automatic, but my PC was freezing so i decided to do a reboot and boom -- updates. wtf???

anywhew, i ran into the following article (written today) entitled: "Windows 10 will keep spying on you no matter how hard you try to stop it"  

http://bgr.com/2016/02/10/windows-10-spying-investigation/ (http://bgr.com/2016/02/10/windows-10-spying-investigation/)


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: G8YMW on February 12, 2016, 04:51:02 AM
For those who think that crippling Windows 10's phone home tendancies is easy, have a read

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/09/windows-10-data-tracking-spying-levels/#40e5fef7aa99


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: G8YMW on February 12, 2016, 05:03:37 AM
However there may be hope

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/11/microsoft-makes-windows-10-u-turn/#109ccc7f3974


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7EXJ on February 12, 2016, 07:33:47 AM
However there may be hope

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/11/microsoft-makes-windows-10-u-turn/#109ccc7f3974

Really, the only hope left for MS is to come out with Windows 11 with an actuallly new OS (instead of just a rehash of the NT kernel with more crap laid over the top of it), warn its developers that change is coming and the old days of simply changing which kernel version you need to put into your code to have it run on the next iteration of Windows (and thereby make your customers pay you for an "upgrade") ....

and get a clue!

Even corporations won't put up with this forever.

As a long-time (but very minority) stockholder I'm tired of watching my investment go down the tubes because MS' management cannot get it right.

We all have known - or should have known - for at least a decade that Windows is insecure. Why else would you have to buy antvirus, anispyware and anti-exploit. Why else would user have abandoned their vaunted Internet Explorer and moved to other browsers?

What other operating system has spurred the creation of a billion-dollar industry devoted to trying to make Windows secure? (An industry, by the way, that will only block exploits they already know about, spurring the creation of yet-another major computer industry: The Zero-Day Exploit.)

It will be painful to do this. But if they don't they can expect massive migrations to Linux.





Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: KX4OM on February 12, 2016, 04:03:54 PM
That Forbes article is an eye-opener because a prominent business community source got Microsoft to not only reply, but to say that will allow users to stop the telemetry. When Microsoft was releasing Windows 10, they stated very plainly that 10 would be the last version of Windows. Now there are these big releases like the one in November, and the constant telemetry back to Redmond. Are they using data from the users' machines in lieu of software QA and testing? They used to use beta testing by volunteers of new product releases; are they now constantly beta testing on an installed base that is approaching 1 billion machines? Will Nadella end up eating his words and release "Windows 11" to appease the business community?

Ted, KX4OM


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7EXJ on February 12, 2016, 04:23:57 PM
Will Nadella end up eating his words and release "Windows 11" to appease the business community?

MS could "appease" the business community by simply continuing to support updates and upgrades to Windows 7 ad infinitum.

But Nadella has to do more than that. Simply continuing to support Windows 7 will not bring new money into the MS vaults; it will actually COST money. The best MS could hope for in that scenario is that it would forestall complete abandonment of the MS paradigm.

No... Nadella has to come up with something that the business community will actually buy! And so far every pitch has been a strike.



Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: G8YMW on February 23, 2016, 04:00:30 AM
Just seen this

http://betanews.com/2016/02/22/control-windows-10-updates/


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7MEM on February 23, 2016, 04:39:19 AM
Just seen this

http://betanews.com/2016/02/22/control-windows-10-updates/

That is just a pitch for a product. They reel you in with false claims hoping you will buy something from their advertisements. Or worse, it could be packed with malware or a virus. The internet is now full of these products that claim to fix Windows 10 issues that really don't exist. I would be wary of all of them.

On one of my PCs (the one the XYL uses), I do allow automatic update. I have never observed any issues with the updates. They happen silently during the night.

On my other two PCs (both laptops) I decide when I want an update to happen. I don't want the updates bothering me while I am working, so I schedule them for 2:00 AM. But at 2:00 AM, my laptops are always in Hibernate mode and will not respond. I do a check, from time to time, for updates and fit them in when it is convenient.

All three systems are running Windows 10.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W2BLC on February 23, 2016, 06:32:23 AM
Someday - 200,000 Windows computers will fail to boot from a bad update. The only way to fix them will be to go on line. Hmmmmmm - that should be interesting. However, in the interim, I generally allow updates and have yet to suffer for it.

In case you are wondering, and I am sure you are not - Linux does a lot of updating (varies from disto to distro).

I run both Windows (out of convenience) and Linux Mint out of reduced resource waste and basic security. I prefer the latter when possible.

So far as Windows calling home - you should see what Google does with searches! Just not important to me.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7MEM on February 23, 2016, 08:56:57 AM
Someday - 200,000 Windows computers will fail to boot from a bad update. The only way to fix them will be to go on line. Hmmmmmm - .....

Yea, more hysteria about something that hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7EXJ on February 23, 2016, 12:29:20 PM
Someday - 200,000 Windows computers will fail to boot from a bad update. The only way to fix them will be to go on line. Hmmmmmm - .....

Yea, more hysteria about something that hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen.


Yea.... like Dell has never seen this sort of issue so doesn't need to publish anything to help users resolve it.
http://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/04/SLN171014/en?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04

Google "no boot after Windows update" and you may see a lot of advice for something that "hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen."


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7MEM on February 23, 2016, 01:30:05 PM
Someday - 200,000 Windows computers will fail to boot from a bad update. The only way to fix them will be to go on line. Hmmmmmm - .....

Yea, more hysteria about something that hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen.


Yea.... like Dell has never seen this sort of issue so doesn't need to publish anything to help users resolve it.
http://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/04/SLN171014/en?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04

Google "no boot after Windows update" and you may see a lot of advice for something that "hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen."


Yep, and most of that was caused by users not paying attention to the update installation and interrupted the process. Some of them just waited 30 minutes and everything worked fine. I admit that some of those update installations can take a long time. My new Windows 10 laptop took 12 hours to update (32 updates), after the initial configuration. But overall, yes, more mass hysteria.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: K7EXJ on February 23, 2016, 02:08:23 PM
Yep, and most of that was caused by users not paying attention to the update installation and interrupted the process. Some of them just waited 30 minutes and everything worked fine. I admit that some of those update installations can take a long time. My new Windows 10 laptop took 12 hours to update (32 updates), after the initial configuration. But overall, yes, more mass hysteria.

I would love to see the evidence corroborating your opinion that "most of that" was user error.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/many-windows-updates-fail-to-install/51d3e3eb-b113-47d9-806e-d560466a83f2?auth=1

MS updates are notorious for either failing to install or causing issues upon installation. Your anecdotal comments fly in the face of reality.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: N1KTJ on February 25, 2016, 06:52:36 AM
Yep, and most of that was caused by users not paying attention to the update installation and interrupted the process. Some of them just waited 30 minutes and everything worked fine. I admit that some of those update installations can take a long time. My new Windows 10 laptop took 12 hours to update (32 updates), after the initial configuration. But overall, yes, more mass hysteria.

I would love to see the evidence corroborating your opinion that "most of that" was user error.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/many-windows-updates-fail-to-install/51d3e3eb-b113-47d9-806e-d560466a83f2?auth=1

MS updates are notorious for either failing to install or causing issues upon installation. Your anecdotal comments fly in the face of reality.


am fighting to keep windows 7.  Its crazy.  half the updates are attempts to make it easier to put WIN10 on it, or other stealth ways to get a channel to put WIN10 on.  Is everyone reading the install discussion data, before you check okay?  Am now forced to read every one.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W2BLC on February 25, 2016, 02:10:57 PM
I have been using Win 10 for several months and have had few issues. It does not appear to spend all its time phoning home and you can control some of it.

I have up graded all but one computer to Win 10. I cannot say that all was a picnic - use an install "1511" disk to install from. Direct online did not go so well.

I also tried Linux Mint - really wanted it to work. No go for many reasons - after several months of use/testing. Hence, I have settled on Win 10.


Title: RE: Worried about Windows Ten Snooping?
Post by: W7ASA on March 15, 2016, 04:34:37 PM
I have only ONE reason to own a Windows machine: RMSexpress/WINMOR,which does not play well with the Linux I love. Other than that, it's CW (no computer needed) of a rare FLdigi contact with friends who don't speak Morse.

MS lost me with endless delays during updates, delays with mandatory reboots, killing drivers for peripherals after an update and lock-ups. When I was on a satellite link, it cost a BUNDLE to run Windows.  Linux - has been good to me.


>Ray  ..._  ._