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eHam Forums => Clubs => Topic started by: WB0CJB on February 10, 2016, 05:06:51 PM



Title: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: WB0CJB on February 10, 2016, 05:06:51 PM
A club plans for its participation in FD and decides to have a potluck dinner that Saturday evening. Everyone is asked to bring a covered dish and the club provides for the meat (usually hamburgers, hot dogs, or pulled pork BBQ). The dinner is well attended by both members and non members, as well as the spouses/harmonics. Everyone enjoys the meal and the fellowship.

Here is the catch: There are usually some people who come to the dinner without bringing a covered dish or has helped in setting up or operating/logging at one of the stations. That person loads up his plate and sticks around to visit with some of his buddies after dinner. He then decides to go home and you don't see him anymore until the next year's FD. Pretty much that person shows up each year for free food.

If the club chooses to hand out dinner tickets to any and all who has set up or operated and has made at least 1 contact then the club is being childish. If everyone brings a covered dish donations could solicited for the cost of the meat. But then again the freeloaders get their belly full at the expense of the others.

The club treasury should not be expected to furnish the meal completely as it has expenses to take care of. If the club repeater goes down and a major repair is needed the treasury would be pretty much wiped out.

So the club could:

1 Forget about the dinner and just have a small dinner for the FD group doing the operation
2 Have the dinner and have to deal with the freeloaders as always
3 Bring in a food truck and have everyone order off the food truck
4 Have the dinner catered by the food truck at so much per plate per person

Anyone have this issue?


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: AC2EU on February 10, 2016, 05:25:10 PM
Did you look into a local place supplying a buffet?  The local Lions club does that on the cheap occasionally.
Our radio club is fortunate to have a member who loves to cook for parties. All we have to do is buy the food and gas!
Everybody gets fed and there is usually over a couple of hundred in the donation jar at the end.

I'd say put out a donation jar for those who didn't bring food. Make it known what is expected of the attendees.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: NA4IT on February 11, 2016, 03:51:00 AM
I'd say put out a donation jar for those who didn't bring food. Make it known what is expected of the attendees.

AND TELL THEM WHAT THE JAR IS FOR!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KA4GFY on February 11, 2016, 12:49:10 PM
Our club has had the same problem as well.  We have a few people who show up around dinnertime on Saturday, fill their plates, eat and leave.  One claims to be a club member, but no one in the club knows who he is.

We once had a ham who brought their teenage son with him.  The son consumed 2 cases of soft drinks by HIMSELF over the weekend and dad never offered to replace or pay for the soft drinks.  Needless to say, neither was welcomed back.

Just like NA4IT said, we put a jar out.  Put money in the jar and get a ticket from the Field Day chairman or treasurer.  No ticket, no food.

73,
Rich, KA4GFY   

 


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: K6CPO on February 11, 2016, 10:52:02 PM
My club budgets for food every year.  In the past it's been cooked by a couple of members, a father and son team, but last year we had to opt for pizza because they couldn't do it.  We've not had a problem with freeloaders, as you called them, because o lot of our members help out even if they don't operate.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: AB1LT on February 12, 2016, 05:27:35 AM
If all the bad apples are doing is violating your principles, but not causing a tangible problem, just let it go and focus on the fun of the event.  Don't let a bad minority wreck it for the good majority.  Don't change a fun, casual time to a rigid, controlled, terms & conditions thing!  Pot lucks always have a few free loaders.  Some forgot, didn't know, or didn't have time.  Others truly are selfish freeloaders.  But the people that bring stuff almost always bring more than their share, so there is usually enough to go around.  Focus on the fun.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N0IU on February 15, 2016, 05:09:54 AM
So let me see if I understand the problem....

Your club gives away free food but then you have a problem when people have the gall, audacity and the nerve to actually come and eat it. Your club created the "problem" so it is up to your club to fix it.

You said:
The club treasury should not be expected to furnish the meal completely as it has expenses to take care of.

If your club can not afford to provide their portion of the meal, then the solution is really really simple.... STOP DOING IT!

If the people who bring a covered dish feel they are being taken advantage of by having people take as much as they want without paying for it.... STOP DOING IT!

If providing a meal is such an extreme financial burden on the club as you claim it could be:

If the club repeater goes down and a major repair is needed the treasury would be pretty much wiped out.

then why not have the club buy the hot dogs, hamburgers, pulled pork, potato salad, cole slaw, chips, soft drinks and whatever y'all eat down there and charge for the meal. You should be able to buy the food from Sams or Costco and provide a meal for $6-7 per person which is what they would pay at McDonalds anyway.

With all due respect, it sounds like your club is in over its head financially. You should not have put up a repeater if you can't afford to maintain it and you certainly should not be providing food for free if your treasury is that close to going into the red.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: K5TED on February 15, 2016, 02:55:10 PM
If you have 'strangers' who claim to be club members, then either they are indeed strangers, or are people who have joined the club, paid dues and just aren't 'clubbers', but do like to support the repeater.

On the other hand, some clubs encourage non-members and new hams to visit the Field Day with full rights and access, just to become acquainted with the locals.

But, we're addressing 'freeloaders'..

Designate a Field Day Marshal(s) who is in charge of walking around with a gaily decorated clipboard(or gaily decorate the Marshal), welcoming participants and having them sign the guestbook. If a person is a non-member, offer an invitation to join the club on the spot as an entry level or guest member in exchange for a nominal Field Day contribution. This can foster conversation, and weed out the freeloaders. They get a green wristband entitling them to food.

If this person later joins as a full member, paying the full annual dues, they should receive a Club Card in the mail. Cards are cheap, but 'official', and something a guy/gal will stick in his/her wallet in perpetuity. People like cards.

If they don't want to join, then give them/offer them a Guest Sticker and a bottle of water. If they have a callsign, write it on the sticker.

If they are indeed active contributing full members, whose callsigns/names you should know and have a list available from their regular financial contributions and by means of good treasury practices, or by means of an issued Club Card, have them sign the Guestbook. They get a green wristband entitling them to food.

Encourage club members to engage people with Guest Stickers during Field Day. Lead the Guest over to one of the station setups to have a look. Answer questions. Ask questions. This may serve to scare some Guests away, but may also bring them into the community. Never ignore people who appear as strangers or are not club members. Engage them in the Field Day.

Drinks are another story altogether, and often overindulged in. Soft drink cans and bottled water are roughly 60 cents each. Have people drop in 50 cents to defray the cost. Eat the rest. People like to imbibe.

What about the kids? Kids under 12 eat free, get a free water, 50 cents for dessert, and pay for drinks after the first free water bottle. If they are allergic to water, they pay for soda or other colored, sweetened beverage. Kids are usually cheap to feed for free.

If they personally are non-members(no coattail riding on Dad's membership), kids 12-17 have to recite at least one question and correct answer from the current question pool to attain Free Food. Out loud. They can use a cheat sheet. If they recite from memory, they get free dessert. Otherwise, Pay The Marshal.

If you catch someone attempting to crash the foodline with a green Marksalot stripe around their wrists, or a tattered wristband from the previous night's foray to the dance club, then you're on your own. I can't recommend anything..

Or just forget about rules and have a free-for-all.



Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N8AUC on February 16, 2016, 09:46:51 AM
Seriously?
Why are you worried about this? If you want a closed, uber-competitive contest type Field Day operation, then don't invite anyone except the actual operators, and only provision for the actual operators. Make it well known that non-participants are not welcome. If you want to backpack into the woods or up a mountain to a remote spot and operate, then do that. You're not likely to get many visitors that way. Both of which pretty much eliminate the "freeloader problem", if that's what you think you have.

But frankly, I think you guys are completely missing one of the major reasons we have Field Day. Is it a contest? Sure. It is an emergency communications thing? Sure. But it's a chance to show off what we do to the general public. That's why you get bonus points for setting up in a public location. The general public includes those club members who might not be all that "into HF" yet. Newer hams, who may or may not be curious, with their freshly minted tech licenses. Get some of those folks, sit them down at an HF rig, and let them play radio. Let them have some fun. If they're alive, and they had fun, before too long they'll be upgrading their licenses. Because a luxury once tasted, soon becomes a necessity.

Our club treats Field Day as an educational club outing. Everyone is invited. We usually have dinner meetings anyways, so we hold the June club meeting just after dinner on Saturday evening. The club springs for the food and the beverages, we raffle off a door prize or two, and then settle in to playing more radio, or visiting with folks for a while. Around sundown, most of the "non-participants" head for home. But the camaraderie and the fellowship is well worth it. And we don't consider anyone who comes out to Field Day a "freeloader". People who come to our Field Day once, soon begin to look forward to it as the annual event it is. Then they start coming out to help setup or tear down. Next thing you know, they're bringing gear and operating all night. This almost becomes an outreach activity. Will you have the occasional person who just shows up to mooch food? Yes, you will sometimes. If you treat them right, those "freeloaders" end up becoming "contributors". But it's a small price to pay to ensure the future health of your club in particular, and ham radio in general.

73 de N8AUC
Eric


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: AC2EU on February 16, 2016, 11:54:44 AM
Seriously?
Why are you worried about this? If you want a closed, uber-competitive contest type Field Day operation, then don't invite anyone except the actual operators, and only provision for the actual operators. Make it well known that non-participants are not welcome. If you want to backpack into the woods or up a mountain to a remote spot and operate, then do that. You're not likely to get many visitors that way. Both of which pretty much eliminate the "freeloader problem", if that's what you think you have.

But frankly, I think you guys are completely missing one of the major reasons we have Field Day. Is it a contest? Sure. It is an emergency communications thing? Sure. But it's a chance to show off what we do to the general public. That's why you get bonus points for setting up in a public location. The general public includes those club members who might not be all that "into HF" yet. Newer hams, who may or may not be curious, with their freshly minted tech licenses. Get some of those folks, sit them down at an HF rig, and let them play radio. Let them have some fun. If they're alive, and they had fun, before too long they'll be upgrading their licenses. Because a luxury once tasted, soon becomes a necessity.

Our club treats Field Day as an educational club outing. Everyone is invited. We usually have dinner meetings anyways, so we hold the June club meeting just after dinner on Saturday evening. The club springs for the food and the beverages, we raffle off a door prize or two, and then settle in to playing more radio, or visiting with folks for a while. Around sundown, most of the "non-participants" head for home. But the camaraderie and the fellowship is well worth it. And we don't consider anyone who comes out to Field Day a "freeloader". People who come to our Field Day once, soon begin to look forward to it as the annual event it is. Then they start coming out to help setup or tear down. Next thing you know, they're bringing gear and operating all night. This almost becomes an outreach activity. Will you have the occasional person who just shows up to mooch food? Yes, you will sometimes. If you treat them right, those "freeloaders" end up becoming "contributors". But it's a small price to pay to ensure the future health of your club in particular, and ham radio in general.

73 de N8AUC
Eric


I couldn't have said it better myself and the donation jar does help defray some of the expenses.

Our club leadership did an uber-competative FD last year. Participation was way, way down. The atmosphere was tense and not very much fun, IMO.
I mean, how many people are into pounding brass for 3 to 6 hours at a clip?  You lose a lot of would-be participants that way being a CW elitist club which turns people off.  In fact it was so tense, I just helped set up and left when I found out how intense it was.

Previous years had always been open to all levels of proficiency, the old timers would tell stories and the kids got to play radio a little bit, etc.  We didn't do too bad in the national ratings even with the relaxed format. The "marshal" would greet people and invite them to operate. It was a very fun showcase and we are returning to it this year!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: K0IZ on February 17, 2016, 06:03:02 AM
Here's how we do it:  WØERH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l52_9PV4zVU


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W9FIB on February 20, 2016, 12:11:08 PM
Seriously?
Why are you worried about this? If you want a closed, uber-competitive contest type Field Day operation, then don't invite anyone except the actual operators, and only provision for the actual operators. Make it well known that non-participants are not welcome. If you want to backpack into the woods or up a mountain to a remote spot and operate, then do that. You're not likely to get many visitors that way. Both of which pretty much eliminate the "freeloader problem", if that's what you think you have.

But frankly, I think you guys are completely missing one of the major reasons we have Field Day. Is it a contest? Sure. It is an emergency communications thing? Sure. But it's a chance to show off what we do to the general public. That's why you get bonus points for setting up in a public location. The general public includes those club members who might not be all that "into HF" yet. Newer hams, who may or may not be curious, with their freshly minted tech licenses. Get some of those folks, sit them down at an HF rig, and let them play radio. Let them have some fun. If they're alive, and they had fun, before too long they'll be upgrading their licenses. Because a luxury once tasted, soon becomes a necessity.

Our club treats Field Day as an educational club outing. Everyone is invited. We usually have dinner meetings anyways, so we hold the June club meeting just after dinner on Saturday evening. The club springs for the food and the beverages, we raffle off a door prize or two, and then settle in to playing more radio, or visiting with folks for a while. Around sundown, most of the "non-participants" head for home. But the camaraderie and the fellowship is well worth it. And we don't consider anyone who comes out to Field Day a "freeloader". People who come to our Field Day once, soon begin to look forward to it as the annual event it is. Then they start coming out to help setup or tear down. Next thing you know, they're bringing gear and operating all night. This almost becomes an outreach activity. Will you have the occasional person who just shows up to mooch food? Yes, you will sometimes. If you treat them right, those "freeloaders" end up becoming "contributors". But it's a small price to pay to ensure the future health of your club in particular, and ham radio in general.

73 de N8AUC
Eric


Very well put Eric!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W1XWX on February 20, 2016, 04:08:47 PM
Field Day is a social event, not a contest; and should be used to educate newcomers to the hobby and or to introduce amateur radio to the community at large. The simple solution is to charge all members a small diner fee, and provide drinks and snacks to the general public. If someone shows up for dinner you don't know or is not a member feed them for free and go on down the road-- :)

73


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KD8TUT on February 25, 2016, 06:28:50 PM
A club plans for its participation in FD and decides to have a potluck dinner that Saturday evening. Everyone is asked to bring a covered dish and the club provides for the meat (usually hamburgers, hot dogs, or pulled pork BBQ). The dinner is well attended by both members and non members, as well as the spouses/harmonics. Everyone enjoys the meal and the fellowship.

Here is the catch: There are usually some people who come to the dinner without bringing a covered dish or has helped in setting up or operating/logging at one of the stations. That person loads up his plate and sticks around to visit with some of his buddies after dinner. He then decides to go home and you don't see him anymore until the next year's FD. Pretty much that person shows up each year for free food.

If the club chooses to hand out dinner tickets to any and all who has set up or operated and has made at least 1 contact then the club is being childish. If everyone brings a covered dish donations could solicited for the cost of the meat. But then again the freeloaders get their belly full at the expense of the others.

The club treasury should not be expected to furnish the meal completely as it has expenses to take care of. If the club repeater goes down and a major repair is needed the treasury would be pretty much wiped out.

So the club could:

1 Forget about the dinner and just have a small dinner for the FD group doing the operation
2 Have the dinner and have to deal with the freeloaders as always
3 Bring in a food truck and have everyone order off the food truck
4 Have the dinner catered by the food truck at so much per plate per person

Anyone have this issue?

Put a donation jar out for the food when serving, encourage people to donate if they did not bring a dish.

Then welcome *everyone*.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W1VT on February 26, 2016, 08:07:37 AM
I just heard about one group that has a raffle to pay for the "free" food. Food is free, but you need to pay for raffle tickets to win prizes.

Zack W1VT


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: VE3LYX on February 28, 2016, 06:11:59 AM
WOW What an education. I dont belong to the local clubs. I am tied up on their meeting nigt with other commitments and so didn't think it fair to join if I couldn't attend. And I dont own a taxi radio so don't use the repeater. Don't do well in clubs anyway. ("do not play well with others") However I have over the years made a point when at all possible of dropping by the local field days even the winter one for a few minute at least just to encourage them and show support. Fair or rotten weather too. Even helped them set up one day when they were short handed for a vertical antenna raising. never felt real welcome. Thoought perhaps I had BO or something but have done it for 20 years or so. Never took any food or interupted them when eating but I didn't know I wasn't welcome. I thought Field Day was about promoting ham radio. Stupid me. Boy I won't make that mistake again!
donVE3LYX


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W9FIB on February 28, 2016, 08:40:40 AM
I thought Field Day was about promoting ham radio.
donVE3LYX

Actually it is. Just some people hate to see others possibly getting something for nothing. And that is one of the big problems in HR today. Makes me wonder sometimes how people can meet up on the air and have fun anymore. Camaraderie has become mostly a thing of the past.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: ONAIR on February 28, 2016, 10:15:19 AM
Someone (China?) should make cheap tiny Ham receivers to give out to prospective Hams instead of food!  Bet that would bring a lot more people into the hobby!!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: AC2EU on February 28, 2016, 03:08:15 PM
WOW What an education. I dont belong to the local clubs. I am tied up on their meeting nigt with other commitments and so didn't think it fair to join if I couldn't attend. And I dont own a taxi radio so don't use the repeater. Don't do well in clubs anyway. ("do not play well with others") However I have over the years made a point when at all possible of dropping by the local field days even the winter one for a few minute at least just to encourage them and show support. Fair or rotten weather too. Even helped them set up one day when they were short handed for a vertical antenna raising. never felt real welcome. Thoought perhaps I had BO or something but have done it for 20 years or so. Never took any food or interupted them when eating but I didn't know I wasn't welcome. I thought Field Day was about promoting ham radio. Stupid me. Boy I won't make that mistake again!
donVE3LYX
Maybe you were welcome but toy weren't "playing well'? I'm sure they appreciated the help, but did you make an attempt to talk to them much?
Our club doesn't worry about the food that much but we do have a donation jar out for visitors who partake of the food. Eat the food , stick a five in the jar. Simple. I participate in all aspects of FD and I still put money in the jar.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: K7EXJ on March 02, 2016, 10:04:12 AM
Just a technicality, but legally, if you require a donation.... it's not a donation. And that distinction could make a difference in the tax-free status of your club.



Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KH6AQ on March 02, 2016, 06:17:42 PM
My answer is to relax, be gracious and feed all who come, whether they contributed to field day and the meal or not.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: NO9E on March 03, 2016, 08:28:58 AM
An organizer for a social event needs to take into account that his efforts might be under appreciated. He organizes it because he feels good about it. The event is successful if many people show up, not successful otherwise. I nearly every social event I participated, there was excess food and freeloaders actually were welcome. It is sad when people bring much and need to take most of it home.

A donation box is an excellent idea.

Ignacy, NO9E


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: K4FMH on March 03, 2016, 08:35:11 AM
Just a small point here...a donation jar is not a requirement. It's just a suggestion. Non-profits with 501c3 status with the IRS can, and often, do charge for "stuff" they do. It need not affect that tax-exempt status at all. Cost-recovery is a legitimate part of services rendered...depends somewhat on the narrative submitted in the tax-exempt request. Often, ham clubs are "educational" in nature and food expenses for meals can be legitimately construed as part of the educational outreach.

I hope this clarifies some of the nuances of this discussion.

73,

Frank
K4FMH

Just a technicality, but legally, if you require a donation.... it's not a donation. And that distinction could make a difference in the tax-free status of your club.




Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: ONAIR on March 03, 2016, 10:20:15 AM
It could be an issue, but Hams seem to be quite generous for the most part. In Los Angeles, a Ham actually donated a motor home to 2 Ham brothers who were unemployed and homeless!!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N2SR on March 04, 2016, 09:02:57 AM
I think that the amount of food you area allowed to consume be based on the amount of work you do and/or the amount of Q's you make.  So if you help erect the portable towers, you get to eat steak.  If you only make 10 contacts / hour, you get one of last years twinkees 


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W9FIB on March 04, 2016, 03:54:05 PM
I think that the amount of food you area allowed to consume be based on the amount of work you do and/or the amount of Q's you make.  So if you help erect the portable towers, you get to eat steak.  If you only make 10 contacts / hour, you get one of last years twinkees 

WOW That's all I can say.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: ONAIR on March 04, 2016, 07:50:27 PM
I think that the amount of food you area allowed to consume be based on the amount of work you do and/or the amount of Q's you make.  So if you help erect the portable towers, you get to eat steak.  If you only make 10 contacts / hour, you get one of last years twinkees 
  They often seem to have last years potato chips!!!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N0IU on March 05, 2016, 07:34:54 AM
Just a technicality, but legally, if you require a donation.... it's not a donation. And that distinction could make a difference in the tax-free status of your club.

Just a small point here...a donation jar is not a requirement. It's just a suggestion. Non-profits with 501c3 status with the IRS can, and often, do charge for "stuff" they do. It need not affect that tax-exempt status at all. Cost-recovery is a legitimate part of services rendered...depends somewhat on the narrative submitted in the tax-exempt request. Often, ham clubs are "educational" in nature and food expenses for meals can be legitimately construed as part of the educational outreach.

I hope this clarifies some of the nuances of this discussion.

73,

Frank
K4FMH

I am the secretary and a founding member of a 501(c)(3) charitable foundation. Being not-for-profit tax-exempt (as many radio clubs are) and being a 501(c)(3) ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS! I don't know about other states, but in Missouri, the Department of Revenue grants not-for-profit tax-exempt status to an organization, but in order to become a 501(c)(3), that requires approval by the IRS. The short form application is only 3 pages, but the cost is $400.

Only donations to 501(c)(3) corporations are tax deductible, but any money you give to a not-for-profit tax-exempt entity is just a gift given voluntarily out of sense of personal generosity.

Even if they wanted to fill out the application and spend the $400, amateur radio clubs can not be 501(c)(3) corporations. The only entities that qualify are religious, educational, charitable, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, to foster national or international amateur sports competition, or prevention of cruelty to children or animals organizations. Strictly speaking, amateur radio club's are social organizations and even though they may do "educational" or "scientific" stuff from time to time, that alone does not qualify for 501(c)(3) status.

Yes, it does seem somewhat of an oxymoron to have a "mandatory donation" since a donation is generally considered to be voluntary, but just because you call it a donation does not make it tax deductible. A club has every right to charge for a meal and it will not effect their tax-exempt status in any way, but if you try and deduct your "donation" to your club, you are the one who could possibly be in trouble with the IRS, not the club!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: K3LI on March 11, 2016, 07:32:04 PM
Your field day should be a darn good opportunity to gain new members and help bring more hams into the hobby.  That is the whole idea.  If you require people to "donate" then it is not a donation, but a fee, thereby jeopardizing your tax status.

Ill bet your club is also the same type that a small clique wants to be in charge of everything and do not welcome other hams setting up their antennas and rigs because it may interfere with your precious
field day set up.

It darn sure sounds like a club I would not waste 1 dollar joining.

If you advertise your field day and people actually show up, do not be surprised when they enjoy your dinner.

Your club is either financially mismanaged with dues that are too low, or too small to fund your projects. 

Besides, some people suck at cooking and you most likely would not want it anyway.

What a waste of a tremendous opportunity to gain members.  I truly feel sorry for you.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N0IU on March 12, 2016, 04:33:46 AM
If you require people to "donate" then it is not a donation, but a fee, thereby jeopardizing your tax status.

Seriously?

First of all, we don't know anything about this club's "tax status". The OP has not contributed one word to this discussion since his original post. For all we know, his "club" could be just a bunch of folks who have pooled their money to buy a repeater and meet once in a while for friendship and camaraderie and may not have filed any sort of letter of incorporation with his state and therefore has no special "tax status" whatsoever.

Secondly, assuming they are a tax-exempt not-for-profit corporation, how exactly will charging for a meal "jeopardize" their tax status? Where are you getting this information? Where did you get your accounting training? Are you a licensed CPA in Texas or Tennessee where the OP lives?

I am also the secretary of a fraternal organization with tax-exempt not-for-profit status in the State of Missouri and we charge for meals all the time. If you think this is illegal or is somehow jeopardizing our "tax status", then you are free to contact Ms. Nia Ray, the Director of the Missouri Department of Revenue. Her address is:

Nia Ray, Director
Department of Revenue
Truman Building, Room 670
P.O. Box 311
Jefferson City, Missouri 65102

Let me know what she says!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W9FIB on March 12, 2016, 08:09:49 AM
We sell tickets to our swapfest. It is our fundraiser for our club and supports our ARES group as well. State of Wisconsin is fine with it because the money raised is used for community good, not individual profit. So would getting money for field day meals. It is a club event and the money is used for club purposes which in turn is community good.

N0IU knows his stuff!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: SWMAN on March 12, 2016, 08:47:35 AM
 I say let everyone eat and be happy, it only happens once a year.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: K5MF on March 13, 2016, 08:29:28 AM
I agree, FD events are the time of year that you should spend the money collected over the year.  Guests, freeloaders, strangers are all welcome.  When I bring food I always bring extra.  I don't mind at all and I don't think others do either.  Typically we have one member who brings 2 or 3 large pizzas each year.  Others bring cases of water, another brings a big cooler full of sodas.  When it is gone, we drink water or someone makes a run to get more.  If I am asked to bring a package of hot-dogs, I bring 2.  One member participates in BBQ competitions and always fixes a brisket or two at his cost.  Wives and guys make potato salad, cole slaw, macaroni salad, cut up a watermelon, make deviled eggs, baked beans, or put together a vegi-tray or bring plates, potato chips, or napkins.  Wives make delicious cakes, pies, brownies, cookies, and we make a couple of freezers of ice cream.  We welcome all and don't give a hoot if anyone donates or not.  It doesn't matter if they have come to a club meetings or not.  It doesn't matter if they are guests or the homeless guy that hangs out at the park where we operate.  We feed all who come to visit.  We have organized games for the kids and the park has a swimming pool so if we get overheated we hit the pool for a while.  There is a fishing pond so some choose to take the kiddos fishing or kayaking.  Our biggest problem is what to do with all of the food that is left over at the end of the day.  There is usually more than enough to take home and/or donate to the food bank.  By the end of the day there are way to many of us with protruding bellies (more than normal) ready to take a nap.  Oh yeah, we play radio a little bit also.  I know everyone in the club spends more on FD supplies then they do for dues.  We don't look at it as a club doing something for us day, but rather us doing something to promote radio day.  We have a blast.

Don't sweat the little things.  Don't expect it to be a 50/50 relationship (just like marriage) and give more than is expected knowing you are being a good person and helping the club and event be successful.  Don't worry about the outliers, have faith in your fellow man, and go through life happy and full of joy.

Tom/K5MF


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: SWMAN on March 13, 2016, 06:45:27 PM
WELL SAID TOM. That's how it's suppose to be.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N8AUC on March 13, 2016, 07:01:42 PM
WOW What an education. I dont belong to the local clubs. I am tied up on their meeting nigt with other commitments and so didn't think it fair to join if I couldn't attend. And I dont own a taxi radio so don't use the repeater. Don't do well in clubs anyway. ("do not play well with others") However I have over the years made a point when at all possible of dropping by the local field days even the winter one for a few minute at least just to encourage them and show support. Fair or rotten weather too. Even helped them set up one day when they were short handed for a vertical antenna raising. never felt real welcome. Thoought perhaps I had BO or something but have done it for 20 years or so. Never took any food or interupted them when eating but I didn't know I wasn't welcome. I thought Field Day was about promoting ham radio. Stupid me. Boy I won't make that mistake again!
donVE3LYX

Don,
It might be a bit of a drive, but consider this an invitation.

Come on down to Cleveland, OH and visit us for Field Day.
You can break bread with us and maybe play some radio too.
We'll make you feel welcome.

Look up WB8CQR on the ARRL Field Day locator. We're not hard to find.
It'll show up on the locator as Field Day approaches.
We start setting up around 9AM. A break for lunch around noon, and
dinner is around 5 or 6PM.

Bring your favorite lawn chair.

73 de N8AUC
Eric


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: VE3LYX on March 13, 2016, 07:22:58 PM
Thank you for the wonderful invite. Should it ever be a possibility I will do my best. I have been to your fair City a few times.
Boy, the subject got well covered here.
My Elmer got me involved with the Air Base Ham club in Trenton Ont (CFB Trenton) in the early 1980s. I did several field days with them , taking my turn at CW ops and tent pitching etc. Most were ex Military or currently active Military and I am not in that field of endevour but I was treated well. The club is no longer for some reason. The local clubs have their meetings on WED nights and I have a meeting every Wed which I chair so I can't attend. That didn't seem fair to join when I know for a fact I will only see one of two meetings per year. They wouldn't understand that. I don't think I have ever even taken a cup of coffee from them. Just wanted to encourage them. Still it used to be back when men were men and women were proud of it that hams were always friendly with each other. Those days are gone I fear. But I have decided to be as pleasant as possible and try to ignore the "yer not really welcome here" feeling. It doesn't help that I love tubes, homebrew, don't own an auto tuner and use CW.  But that's life. Now at least I can go to Cleveland if they throw me out here. Just knowing that helps :>)
donVe3LYX


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KC2QYM on March 14, 2016, 11:25:26 AM
This problem is not exclusive to Ham radio...it's the human condition.  Those that throw a ten or twenty dollar bill into the pot and those that never do.  I have seen so much of this freeloader abuse that I have taken the liberty to walk over to those who haven't contributed and ask them right there on the spot to throw the money in.  Not just a dollar or two but whatever the acceptable amount should be.  Those that do not contribute time and time again are flatly asked to leave or stop eating.  If we are supposed to be mature adults then no one should believe that they have a right to freeload or think that they won't get caught not paying their share.  If these repeat offenders are in your organization, do you really want them there? These are the same people who never volunteer to help out in any capacity at all so do you want them in your organization?  The problem with freeloaders are that the people who do all the organizing, cooking, and subsidizing don't have the nerve to embarrass the miscreants.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: ONAIR on March 14, 2016, 01:07:21 PM
This problem is not exclusive to Ham radio...it's the human condition.  Those that throw a ten or twenty dollar bill into the pot and those that never do.  I have seen so much of this freeloader abuse that I have taken the liberty to walk over to those who haven't contributed and ask them right there on the spot to throw the money in.  Not just a dollar or two but whatever the acceptable amount should be.  Those that do not contribute time and time again are flatly asked to leave or stop eating.  If we are supposed to be mature adults then no one should believe that they have a right to freeload or think that they won't get caught not paying their share.  If these repeat offenders are in your organization, do you really want them there? These are the same people who never volunteer to help out in any capacity at all so do you want them in your organization?  The problem with freeloaders are that the people who do all the organizing, cooking, and subsidizing don't have the nerve to embarrass the miscreants.
   Interesting point!  I'll never forget this one "freeloader" who used to come to most of the events, and grab whatever he could.  However, the biggest shock of all came when we found out that the guy was worth over $20 Million!!!   :'(  ???


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W9FIB on March 14, 2016, 01:10:38 PM
Seems to me publically embarrassing someone only makes the person doing the embarrassing look bad. Comes across petty and cruel. That's why most people don't use such a tactic. Especially if the group only asks for donations.

If you need to collect every dime, sell tickets and collect every ticket from them when they eat. Otherwise the few that take advantage of not "donating" are just part of doing business. And I thought a donation was voluntary anyway. If it is not voluntary, it is no longer a donation, but a sale. Only in the case of a sale would such a strong reaction to the few be correct.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N0IU on March 15, 2016, 05:08:38 AM
Those that do not contribute time and time again are flatly asked to leave or stop eating.

Seriously? You would take a plate of half-eaten food from someone and throw it away?


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KD8TUT on March 15, 2016, 10:22:31 AM
Those that do not contribute time and time again are flatly asked to leave or stop eating.

Seriously? You would take a plate of half-eaten food from someone and throw it away?

Yes... that irks me too.

The whole idea of being of service to the community and people are carping about people eating food offered for free, but not met with a quid pro quo.

It's just selfishness. Personal or organizational. Put out a donation jar to offset the food costs. Be humble and accept what's given. Enjoy doing something for someone else without getting anything in return.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: AC2EU on March 15, 2016, 08:47:56 PM
This has become a showcase for some of what I call the "grumpy old men syndrome" in this hobby.
If they wonder why there are no new members in their club or they don't stay long, READ THIS THREAD.
It's probably why the club can't afford a couple of hot dogs in the first place!
THe club will die along with the last of the old grumps.

The donation jar works well. Welcome all and have fun with FD.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: AC6CV on March 27, 2016, 09:27:23 AM
Over the years I have been a member of clubs and attended FDs. Never encountered any of those problems. Possibly some hams are standing around with a check sheet taking score on who is working. Guess I never noticed.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W3WN on April 06, 2016, 08:09:00 AM
Well, all I can say is this...

Almost every Field Day, we have a handful of people who stop by and never "contribute"

Some of them are new hams.  Some of them are inactive hams.  Some are older club members who have put in their time in years past, and now want to socialize.

I have never seen someone show up just to eat lunch or dinner & leave immediately thereafter.  I'm sure it happens -- it's just never happened with my club in the ~25 Field Days I've been to.

Regardless... we usually have plenty of everything, so it's not a problem.  We use the opportunity to try and encourage the new and inactive hams to get active (and if it's with us, so much the better!) , and to get to socialize with the older gang.  Isn't that what the non-operating part of FD is all about?


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: AA7LX on April 09, 2016, 10:36:51 PM
OK; I understand what has been said. When I was President of the local club, the way we did it was: Everybody paid for the BBQ dinner. When you paid - You received one Plate. You were allowed one pass thru the line. One person-one Ticket-one Plate. The dinner was catered and/or cooked by outside of the Club personnel. Children received one Plate for a paid ticket. No sharing of Plates. There was no free Food since no-one brought anything to share. Otherwise, And, when we had the annual Club Picnic everyone brought something to share to be part of the Picnic.   


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KD4YSH on April 15, 2016, 10:07:02 AM
If the club member is in good standings with the club and does not bring a covered dish and takes home food what can you really say? The next club meeting you could make it clear that you bring a covered dish or buy something to bring from home, but hurting feelings and possibly losing a club member is not the intention of the club. This type of activity happens a lot but you need to stop and realize maybe that person is having some hard times, do not single out or hurt feelings not the purpose of the club to hurt feelings, but you can tell them in a way so they know who they are. Club meetings are also good fellowship do not ever lose sight of that important factor. If this person makes a habit of the same activity they talk to them but be nice, help him out, you could also be in his or her shoes one day.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KD4YSH on April 15, 2016, 10:09:54 AM
ka4gfy....record keeping....record keeping how could you possibly not know this person is a member of the club, fire your recording sec. and smack the treasurer's hand.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: NK7Z on April 15, 2016, 10:43:13 AM
ka4gfy....record keeping....record keeping how could you possibly not know this person is a member of the club, fire your recording sec. and smack the treasurer's hand.
Or you could just not worry about it, and let someone take some food home...  It is not like they are steeling your K3, it is just a bit of food, that was freely given.  You can't stop this and not cause bad feelings...


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KD4YSH on April 16, 2016, 07:00:17 AM
WHAT IS A K-3?


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N0IU on April 16, 2016, 07:20:12 AM
WHAT IS A K-3?

There are a lot of people asking you about 501(c)(3) corporations in your other post and all you can tell them is to go to Google® for the answer, so why don't you follow your own advice and use Google® to look it up for yourself!

(I'll give you a hint: the K3 mentioned in NK7Z's post is NOT a Pentax DSLR camera body)


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: NK7Z on April 16, 2016, 07:45:23 AM
WHAT IS A K-3?
This covers everything you need to know about a K3.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=K3+ham+radio


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KD4YSH on April 17, 2016, 07:25:58 AM
nk7z....ok thank you for the radio update we were in conversation on 501 (c-3) areas of taxes but ok the k-3 is a nice radio lets keep this a secret because it would be a great door prize...lol..lol


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: NK7Z on April 17, 2016, 11:57:16 AM
nk7z....ok thank you for the radio update we were in conversation on 501 (c-3) areas of taxes but ok the k-3 is a nice radio lets keep this a secret because it would be a great door prize...lol..lol
You should probably add a few quotes, (like above), to your posts so people can actually follow what you are trying to impart, and to give context...  Look at the post directly above your comment... 


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: K4JK on May 02, 2016, 06:15:25 AM
I'll bet those freeloaders eating your XYL's bean salad without chipping in are no-code hams, too!   :D :D


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: ONAIR on May 02, 2016, 07:14:47 AM
I'll bet those freeloaders eating your XYL's bean salad without chipping in are no-code hams, too!   :D :D
    Or maybe even CBers!!!!   ???


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W9FIB on May 02, 2016, 06:55:02 PM
I'll bet those freeloaders eating your XYL's bean salad without chipping in are no-code hams, too!   :D :D
    Or maybe even CBers!!!!   ???

Or maybe not hams at all. OH THE HORROR!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: ONAIR on May 02, 2016, 09:29:43 PM
I'll bet those freeloaders eating your XYL's bean salad without chipping in are no-code hams, too!   :D :D
    Or maybe even CBers!!!!   ???

Or maybe not hams at all. OH THE HORROR!
   Darn Freebanders!!!!  :'(


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: AE7IS on May 02, 2016, 09:44:16 PM
just read thru this entire posting.  may I add?  I don't go to my local club meetings but I pay my yearly dues.  I don't use the repeater either, but I still pay my dues.  I don't feel very welcome at any of the meetings I have attended and have considered driving an extra 20 miles to try the club a couple of towns over but considering things, it would most likely be more of the same.  I WAS able to be a vec coordinator for the club, along with 3 other fellows.  But I opened my mouth and asked why I was the only one who had to share a session.  Now I only am allowed to do 2 sessions, not 3 as one would expect.  Perhaps I just don't "play well with others".  Those I work with in ARES and those vec sessions don't seem to have any problems with me. They keep coming back, even knowing I am present.
So what is my point?  If you really want to have a club then I think you are going to have to let go of your concern of what other people are doing/getting/being. I know of no surer way to drive people away.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: K4JK on May 03, 2016, 09:42:05 AM
If you really want to have a club then I think you are going to have to let go of your concern of what other people are doing/getting/being. I know of no surer way to drive people away.


Amen, this type of behavior is what drives new hams away in droves. I think most clubs aren't really clubs anymore, they're just incorporated groups of insular whacker buddies.

If I were a new ham (or an interested non-ham) and came to an open field day where someone immediately started peppering me with questions about whether I chipped in my $5 for the spoiled potato salad sitting in the sun all day and cold KFC, I'd probably just give him the money then never come back to any of that club's meetings again.

People are complaining about how horrible our culture is now in this thread, and how too many folks want everything for free. While I generally agree with that sentiment, there's a flip side to that that is lost... which is hospitality to guests. Eastern/Asian cultures still practice this, but it has become totally lost in western culture. It used to be if you wanted someone to join your organization you welcomed them in, told them what you were about and explained what you had to offer. You offered food and drink. If they offered to chip in you wouldn't hear of it, because they were a guest and you were "recruiting" them to join your organization and actively participate. You hoped your initial hospitality would pay dividends down the line in dues, possible technical know-how, volunteer service, or even grunt-work.

All of that is lost in most ham radio clubs now, and this thread is a perfect example. Hospitality? Encouraging guests ? Why don't we just have a guy with a orange vest and clipboard meet everyone at the parking lot with wristbands, membership applications and plenty of change before people can even get out of their cars? Let's treat casual family picnics like they are full-blown paid-entry hamfests!

And if a couple of "freeloaders" come by and eat a plate and don't operate, what are you doing to encourage them to hang around and make some QSO? Maybe they are intimidated by "contest-style" operating. Maybe their XYL just died and they just could use some company. Maybe they don't get on HF much, or don't know how to work a rig well. Does anyone offer to help them jump in and log for them while they work some SSB so they can get acclimated? Or do you just run up to them with spittle flying out of your mouth, poking them in the chest over being a freeloader?

I used to work with a guy. He was really smart and did a great job, but I absolutely hated going out to lunch with him. Mostly because he was so OCD he had to divide the check up to the penny every time a group went out. He would obsess over it so that everything was exactly even. There was no "close enough" or "hey I'll get the tab next time" or "just buy me a beer at happy hour and we're good" with this guy. He wanted everything down to the penny or he would drive you nuts about how so-and-so was short a dollar in the pot. Cringeworthy stuff. People asked him to chill out, told him it wasn't a big deal, don't worry so much about it. But he could never let it go. Eventually people stopped inviting him to lunch, and he ended up eating by himself a lot in the company cafeteria.

Everyone should just chill out. It's a family picnic. If you decide you want to eat by yourself in the cafeteria fine, but don't later wonder why your organization can't attract any younger hams or new people.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N0IU on May 03, 2016, 01:19:25 PM
Everyone should just chill out.

And I will repeat what I said earlier in this thread that sums up this whole idea....

If your club can not afford to give away food to anyone who wants it, DON'T DO IT!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KC2QYM on May 12, 2016, 09:52:28 AM
Maybe I should just show up to all these club outings and eat for free, not contribute my time and efforts, and just be cursed behind my back and not worry about it..right?  If a majority of club members were of this mindset what sort of club would you have.  I still stand with my earlier post that a strong club consists of members that contribute something to it.  You don't need the extra hangers on who do nothing and expect to get something out of it.  Most clubs charge a minimum annual dues like $25 and some of these 'takers' think that's enough to eat free and have fun on the backs of 'Doers'.  Clubs collapse because of freeloaders.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N0IU on May 12, 2016, 10:53:44 AM
Clubs collapse because of freeloaders.

I am guessing you haven't been a member of too many clubs! Pretty much ALL organizations operate under the 90/10 rule.... 90% of the work is done by 10% of the membership, not just amateur radio clubs. I am a member of a very old worldwide fraternal organization that has been in existence (in its present form) for nearly 300 years and that is exactly the way things work with them as well.

Clubs collapse because they don't give the membership a reason to keep coming back. No one wants to come to "business meetings", at least not for very long anyway. I was president of an amateur radio club back in the mid-90s. I tried to have a program that would (hopefully) be of interest to the membership regardless of their license class. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't, but at least I tried. A couple of years after my term in office (2 years) was over, all the new president wanted to do was have the club do "public service" events like providing communications for road rallies, marathons and stuff like that. While this interested some members (mostly the Technicians who are limited to VHF/UHF), there was nothing to keep most of us "OFs" coming back.

Sure, I could have offered to do some general interest programs, but the president at the time just didn't seem interested in anything but his agenda. I could only do so much for the club!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KD1I on May 12, 2016, 05:39:41 PM
My antique radio club holds 3 swap meets each year. Two are very informal but one involves a large county park with a very big building. We have coffee n donuts in the morning and pizza with soda for lunch. Everyone is invited to enjoy it and we only ask for a donation. This ranges from nothing to a handful of change to some five dollar bills.....and we hope to break even.
The same people staff the front desk, run the 50/50 raffle, the auction, set up and tear down, the radio contest, the PA system, run for the chow, line up a presentation.... you get the idea.
If someone enjoys a cup a joe or a slice of pizza at our expense... so be it.  Who really cares in the end. We all had a good time.

73, Jim          www.sarsradio.com


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W5WSS on May 18, 2016, 07:08:50 AM
Conversely, I went to a field Day event and volunteered to help. I was NOT a member of their club but have been a ham for over 30 years and have plenty to offer. I was assigned to help with the setup of the shelters, tents, Ice, and various camping type tasks which all went well.

The event is held at a County Park and there are no concessions available.

I volunteered so I didn't mind helping and did some operating....But at lunch time I was not invited to partake...I was Hot, thirsty and hungry no joy.

I thought well maybe it was an oversight? Same thing during the cook out for dinner. 1 time OK.. 2 times I'm out.

Who knew? An experience I will not subject myself to again.

73


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: N0IU on May 18, 2016, 02:26:09 PM
Who knew?

So you're saying you didn't ask for a membership application on your way out???


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: AC7CW on May 18, 2016, 04:43:22 PM
Ham clubs do better with a jar for donations than the Senior Center I used to lunch at. The suggested donation was $2.75 or so and I learned that on average the donation was $.58!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: ONAIR on May 18, 2016, 04:46:26 PM
Ham clubs do better with a jar for donations than the Senior Center I used to lunch at. The suggested donation was $2.75 or so and I learned that on average the donation was $.58!
   But aren't a lot of seniors broke? 


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KASSY on May 24, 2016, 03:41:51 PM
Sounds like your club hasn't really grasped the point of Field Day.

Field Day is a prime public event for clubs.  The club does lots of stuff all year long, but Field Day is what it's all about.  Anybody and everybody is invited.  It's a time for making publicity, getting newbies on the air, celebrating, having a big old happy party time and showing the general public that hams are above all, fun-loving, and not the grumpy gray-haired serious wet blankets we're often thought of.  So, the more the merrier!

Every successful FD I've been do ditched the whole potluck idea.  Making every attending member "bring a dish" is challenging.  On average, hams can't cook and don't have any culinary creativity at all.

I've seen some clubs hire a caterer...caterers aren't only for expensive weddings.  For $7 a person, I've seen a caterer provide burger/hot dog meals with potato salad, green salad, baked beans and free-running soda pop.  Most caterers ask for an estimated headcount, then you pay more or less depending on actual headcount.

I've seen clubs designate a 'chef', who takes care of stuff.  I was that person one year.  I got enough burger meat for the club times 3, formed 1/4 pound patties two days prior, and kept them at 34 degrees...you don't want to freeze beef twice.  Up to the FD site, small fridge on a generator held at 34 degrees.  A couple hours before the cookout, out comes 1/3 of the patties, then an hour before cookout, the grill gets going.  If more show up - more patties come out.  Whatever's left over, I took home and froze.  Buns freeze even better than meat does.  For all veggie side dishes, I purchased canned items or other items that had months-long shelf lives.  Sure, not the freshest food, but all excess came home with me.  Most of the canned stuff I donated to the food bank - it became part of my annual donations.  The meat and buns, I offered to club members later at my cost, and used some for my own parties after.  Condiments like catsup and mustard are so cheap that it didn't phase me a bit to dispose of the extra.

Get in the spirit and embrace this part of FD as a major public service invitation, worthy of the price!  If you really want, you could put out a donation jar.

- k


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: NK7Z on May 25, 2016, 06:38:09 AM
Maybe I should just show up to all these club outings and eat for free, not contribute my time and efforts, and just be cursed behind my back and not worry about it..right?  If a majority of club members were of this mindset what sort of club would you have.
To answer your question-- you would have a friendly club, in which certain members did not obsess over minutia, like who paid for their Field Day Potato Salad, thus ruining the entire club sprite, and rendering the club a not fun place to be.

I still stand with my earlier post that a strong club consists of members that contribute something to it.
That statement is absolutely correct.

You don't need the extra hangers on who do nothing and expect to get something out of it.
The above statement will kill your club... 

Most clubs charge a minimum annual dues like $25 and some of these 'takers' think that's enough to eat free and have fun on the backs of 'Doers'.  Clubs collapse because of freeloaders.
Consider you are referring to your fellow club members activities using words like-- "extra hangers on", "do nothing",  "get something out of it", "takers", "on the backs of", and finally "doers", if I found myself using those terms about my fellow club members, I would re-think my position...  Do your fellow club members shun you?


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KC2QYM on May 25, 2016, 08:31:26 AM
NK7Z...
No I am not shunned at all, in fact I am asked to help as I was one of a subset of club members who were always willing to get things done.  When I looked around to see how others would arrive just on time to operate a station they didn't help build, or just in time for the meal, or just sit around and watch me and a few others sweating through the work I made the decision not to be involved anymore.  I am not as tolerant as a few others here are when absolute laziness and cheapness emerge.  I don't have to be a member of any club to enjoy the core hobby. 


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: NK7Z on May 25, 2016, 09:44:50 AM
NK7Z...
No I am not shunned at all, in fact I am asked to help as I was one of a subset of club members who were always willing to get things done.  When I looked around to see how others would arrive just on time to operate a station they didn't help build, or just in time for the meal, or just sit around and watch me and a few others sweating through the work I made the decision not to be involved anymore.  I am not as tolerant as a few others here are when absolute laziness and cheapness emerge.  I don't have to be a member of any club to enjoy the core hobby.  
Hmm...  "I WAS asked", "I WAS one of the subset of club members who WERE willing...", "I made the decision not to be involved ANYMORE", seems all of your club activities are now past tense...  Not surprising...  Probably better for all involved you "made the decision", to leave.  Silly me for asking about the shunning, I erroneously assumed you were still in a club...


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KC2QYM on May 27, 2016, 08:23:49 AM
NK7Z...
I detest laziness, freeloaders, people that contribute nothing and just take.  If a majority of club members fit that description then I will retreat from my involvement.  I have a take it or leave attitude when it comes to ham radio as a hobby.  I quickly lose the motivation to be involved in an organization when I encounter a majority of people as described lurking about.  If my attitude detracts from my enjoyment of the hobby when I encounter miscreants then I move on.  Similar to the occasional miscreants one encounters on the air.  I am not going to fight with idiots who do stupid things on the air so I just move on.  Again, this is a hobby...if there are jerks in it (as in all human organizations) I simply seek out those like minded persons to interact with.  If you were implying that somehow my attitude about club involvement is wrong then I would just say that perhaps you are more tolerant than I am and that's OK from your own perspective....but I have my standards.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: NK7Z on May 27, 2016, 08:33:36 AM
NK7Z...
I detest laziness, freeloaders, people that contribute nothing and just take.  If a majority of club members fit that description then I will retreat from my involvement.  I have a take it or leave attitude when it comes to ham radio as a hobby.  I quickly lose the motivation to be involved in an organization when I encounter a majority of people as described lurking about.  If my attitude detracts from my enjoyment of the hobby when I encounter miscreants then I move on.  Similar to the occasional miscreants one encounters on the air.  I am not going to fight with idiots who do stupid things on the air so I just move on.  Again, this is a hobby...if there are jerks in it (as in all human organizations) I simply seek out those like minded persons to interact with.  If you were implying that somehow my attitude about club involvement is wrong then I would just say that perhaps you are more tolerant than I am and that's OK from your own perspective....but I have my standards.
I tend to be a lot more relaxed than you seem to be...  I expect there will be people that are not as motivates as I, in clubs, or in life, however I don't go about posting about how I can't stand them, and calling them names.  There exists a small group of people that seems to need to demean others in order to feel better about themselves...  These are the folks I point the thrusters at and perform a safe distancing maneuver from.  See ya and thanks.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: W5WSS on May 29, 2016, 01:35:56 PM
Hello N0IU, That is a correct assumption. I did not request a membership application.

73


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: VE3DVY on May 31, 2016, 07:20:56 PM
yea  we have the Feddy the freeloaders too   some come and take up space talk and eat.  

I look at it this way      as most clubs go  its a small percentage that do the work.  most of the freeloaders where part of that working percentage at one time    some not    so I figure  when Im to old to heave antennas and tents  I have the privilege of being that freeloader   I have paid my dues.    

we just  don't get to wrapped up about it.   The biggest battle we have is the  social gathering that seems to congregate in the operating tent and the operators cant hear the rigs for the noise.   so hard rule now is  unless your operating or assisting an op  OUT OF THE TENT!


And to the fellow W5WSS that helped out but was not a member and did not get a lunch,  That just stinks and was bad on the clubs part
    We do not ask for a membership card at the chow line.  and hand out water and drinks to the point of annoyance to anyone at the site.     Its better than someone getting dehydrated.


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: NK7Z on May 31, 2016, 10:10:38 PM
yea  we have the Feddy the freeloaders too   some come and take up space talk and eat.  

I look at it this way      as most clubs go  its a small percentage that do the work.  most of the freeloaders where part of that working percentage at one time    some not    so I figure  when Im to old to heave antennas and tents  I have the privilege of being that freeloader   I have paid my dues.    

we just  don't get to wrapped up about it.   The biggest battle we have is the  social gathering that seems to congregate in the operating tent and the operators cant hear the rigs for the noise.   so hard rule now is  unless your operating or assisting an op  OUT OF THE TENT!


And to the fellow W5WSS that helped out but was not a member and did not get a lunch,  That just stinks and was bad on the clubs part
    We do not ask for a membership card at the chow line.  and hand out water and drinks to the point of annoyance to anyone at the site.     Its better than someone getting dehydrated.

and it is the right thing to do!  Bravo to you!


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: VE3DVY on June 01, 2016, 04:58:36 AM

I detest laziness, freeloaders, people that contribute nothing and just take.  If a majority of club members fit that description then I will retreat from my involvement. 

I find that most of the So Called freeloaders  where many years ago like me and the other guys that are working hard.  often getting on in age and tired to do much but come out for the social part of Field Day.  I am fairly new to our group   only a member for 8 years and now club president.    we have several that come out, set up a lawn chairs under the social tent and chat offer advice and eat and go home.  At first I saw this as a problem  then as the other old-timers in the group would tell stories  like "Well that guy sitting over there was the mainstay for Field Day for years and years.  nice to see him relax now and watch the young folks take over."  or "did you know that when he was president he  was the one that negotiated with the city to get the repeaters on the water towers and it was because of him we get to use City facilities for events like this for free?"  digging deeper these so called freeloaders I find that they are not that at all.  they have done their dues and now deserve to sit back and enjoy the fun of watching us young eager beavers do the work for a change.  and for them   there is the social tent.  enjoy the burgs and potato salad.   JUST STAY OUT OF THE OPERATING AREA UNLESS YOUR AT A KEY OR MICROPHONE!

lets face it  if the 40-50 hams that show up for our field day where in there trying to help it would be mayhem and confusion. let the core organized group that know what is going on do the work   go sit and if we need you I will call.


Social is definitely a big part of the event.  Read the ARRL description.   

there are very few that come out and do nothing that have not worked hard in the past. 


Title: RE: Field Day and freeloaders
Post by: KC2QYM on June 01, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
DVY...I should qualify that I was not pointing out the older, more senior gentlemen that are obviously not able to do the physical things anymore but contribute in other ways such as advice and historical context. The 'lumps' are the guys that are physically capable but naturally lazy, lacking the self pride to even care that they are perceived as such.