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eHam Forums => Mobile Ham => Topic started by: NT6U on July 23, 2016, 01:09:14 PM



Title: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: NT6U on July 23, 2016, 01:09:14 PM
Does it make any difference to the Kennwood TS 480 HX main unit when installed right side up or upside down.  laying flat?  There is a top and bottom.
Is heat dissipation effected?
I have mounted it in a 2016 Tacoma 4x4, access cab, on the floor on the transmission well ridge, behind front seats.  No back seats in installed. 
Thanks


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: K0BG on July 23, 2016, 01:46:11 PM
It shouldn't as long as it has circulation all around the chassis.


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: NT6U on July 23, 2016, 06:12:01 PM
Thank you.
I also appreciate your website.


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: W8JX on July 27, 2016, 05:47:07 AM
It shouldn't as long as it has circulation all around the chassis.

I disagree. Bad advise because K0BG does not always think things thru as usual. This is a 200 watt rig in a car that can get warm at times so you want best possible cooling. This rig has a natural flow path thru it and uses fans to augment it. That path is drawing air thru front and bottom over main circuitry and then out over finals and out back. I ideally it would be best to installing it vertically face down as this is the flow path of fan cooling and it would would aid cooling when fans are off and assist its cooling quicker when power is off. (heat rises and it would use normal path) Second choice would be to mount it flat top side up. To mount it flat upside down places heat sink below rig and would tend to heat circuit up above it from convection as heat rises. Mounting it vertically fan down would be last choice choice because this would not only reduce cooling efficiency (because heat tends to rise) and when fan is off heat flow path would reverse and heat from heat-sink would rise into main circuitry in rig and heat it more than normal and this would result in larger temp swing there as fan cycles on and off. Also, air expands as it heat so air displaces a greater volume when heated and exit holes by fan are bigger than entrance surface area to assist flow. When flow it reverse, the expanded heated air flow is choked by smaller entrance holes now being used as exits.


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: K0BG on July 27, 2016, 07:50:50 AM
Well, the fire is calling the kettle black. The manual say not to mount the transceiver vertically! I wonder why?


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: W8JX on July 27, 2016, 08:06:57 AM
Well, the fire is calling the kettle black. The manual say not to mount the transceiver vertically! I wonder why?

I own a 480 do you??? I have also had mine apart to study its design and add accessories to it have you?  I suspect recommendation is because someone would mount it vertically face up, which you do not do for reasons I mentioned and you must of missed.  So, rather than try to confuse users, like you,  between which way a vertical mount is okay they do not recommend it at all because mounted vertically face up would reduce cooling.

BTW how are your 3/4 wave 440 verticals doing that you said would work great when they do not?


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: AG5BC on July 27, 2016, 09:48:20 AM
I agree with K0BG. Mounting it vertically gives them a far better chance of shaking something apart in a mobile installation, especially with the centrally located mounting bracket and the large mass of the radio. Mounting it pointed down (or up) would be worse than across because the bracket makes a great pivot point for shaking the rig.

Kenwood has done the thermal modeling as well. If they say to mount it flat, it's probably safe to say that they don't think any perceived cooling advantages that come from vertical mounting outweigh the mechanical disadvantages.

And before you retort about all of your TS-480 experience, you should know that I own a TS-480SAT, which has internal relays for its tuner that probably don't like extra movement, either.

I think that I'd follow the manufacturer's advice on this one - unless, of course, you've managed to design and manufacture your own HF rig and successfully market it without our knowledge. If you have, please let us know - people might like to hear about that.


Brian
AG5BC


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: K0BG on July 27, 2016, 11:30:50 AM
I have owned a TS-480Hx, and used it long enough to learn more about it than you apparently have, John.

In any case, it would serve you better not to be so abrasive and indigent.


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: W8JX on July 27, 2016, 04:17:50 PM
I have owned a TS-480Hx, and used it long enough to learn more about it than you apparently have, John.

Apparently not because you do not because you did not even know how to mount it.

In any case, it would serve you better not to be so abrasive and indigent.

When you stop giving BS answers... (remember first you said any position is fine then you changed because YOU DID NOT know without google) I have read your posts and auto makers have it all wrong and you are right huh. Just like 3/4 wave vertical should work great on 440 when they suck worse than a Jpole. And suddenly a expert on electric cars too but do not own them. My Volt we have owned for two years NEVER got your memo that it was supposed to be noisy.



Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: KK4YDR on July 28, 2016, 01:08:34 AM
Meanwhile at the DNC......


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: KK4CHM on July 28, 2016, 04:38:04 AM
More often than not, when I peruse the mobile forum here looking for ideas and such, I see the two of you bickering back and forth.  It's almost as if you two are vying for the top spot at eHam as being the resident expert and gurus on everything.  Maybe you are, maybe you are not, but it would serve the both of you AND the community well if you'd just grow up, get together and try to treat each other with a bit more respect.  You've both grown tiresome........




Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: N4UM on July 28, 2016, 07:26:11 AM
Enough with  the ad hominums(sp?) already.  This isn't an election .


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: AC4RD on August 01, 2016, 05:08:54 PM
I also appreciate your website.

Darned near everybody does.  Alan's website is a great resource and a remarkable public service on the part of the author.  :-)    You know what happened when the first telegraph line was installed between two points?  Ten minutes after communications were established, the first flame war started.  :-)

I'm glad I saw this, though: I've had my 480-sat installed vertically (on one side) for a year or so now.  Maybe I better rearrange things.  :-)


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: NT6U on September 11, 2016, 11:18:32 AM
What's the final consensus please, getting back to my original question. 480 is mounted flat.  Is it going to hurt it being mounted flat but bottom side up?
Thank you


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: W8JX on September 11, 2016, 02:43:03 PM
What's the final consensus please, getting back to my original question. 480 is mounted flat.  Is it going to hurt it being mounted flat but bottom side up?
Thank you

I just looked my 480 over and as I said well up thread contrary to K0BG "thoughts" on it.  The "best" way to mount it would be vertically front down as physics would assist cooling as heat would rise on same path in same direction as when fan is active even without fan running (though as a lower rate). Next best is flat top up but NOT on a flat surface as you want air under it as it has vent hole top and bottom that draw air in when cooling and you do not want to block them. That being said I would not mount it upside down on floor. Rig is designed for convention and forced air cooling and inverting it upset the designed air flow via convection. If you want to mount it flat mount it top side up above floor. Further note that optional MB 480 bracket that bolts to rig and provides place to mount face plate in front of rig and provides a side carry handle has holes in bottom of bracket that covers rig for air flow. You do not want to block any of these holes especially on a HX as you want maximum airflow through unit.


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: N5MOA on September 11, 2016, 06:42:58 PM
What's the final consensus please, getting back to my original question. 480 is mounted flat.  Is it going to hurt it being mounted flat but bottom side up?
Thank you

Not sure why you decided to mount it upside down, it takes up the same space right side up, but as long as you have it in the L-bracket holes where it has air space between it and the surface below, I don't see it making any difference.

Mounting on a flat surface doesn't seem to make any difference either. Sitting on a desk only sits it up about a 1/4" on the rubber feet.

My TS-480HX has resided happily mounted on a flat plate underneath the drivers seat of my Dodge pickup for 6 years worth of Texas summers.  Whatever airflow the L-bracket allows underneath,  about 4" above and open front and rear.

If the radio needs more airflow, the fans kick on. That's what they are supposed to do. Unless I'm really hammering it in a cw or RTTY (parked for RTTY) pileup, they rarely come on.

Provided you DO have airflow underneath the radio (no feet on the top :)), it will be fine, imo.

73, Tom
N5MOA


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: AB9TA on September 12, 2016, 02:23:31 PM
When in doubt, consult the Kenwood manual, (written by the folks who actually designed and made it) found here: http://images.kenwood.eu/files/images/products/product_id_258/file_category_10/TS-480HX-TS-480SAT_Instruction_Manual.pdf

The manual does not speak to any unusual installation requirements as far as orientation. However, the installation drawings do show it sitting flat, i.e. horizontal. The only thing they emphasize is to ensure adequate airflow around the installation. The radio has cooling fans that should pull in enough air cool it in any orientation, and it can sense high temps and shut itself down for protection. So, you should be OK there.
A "hanging" mount has a lot going for it, for example, it's useful to keep the transceiver off the floor where mud, water, or errant feet could damage it. An under the seat mount is a good way to go.
Based on the information in the manual (unless there's another Kenwood manual to look at somewhere), I'd say to install it in whatever way works best for you, just make sure it's a solid mount (no projectiles!), and that air can get to it, i.e., follow the clearance recommendation in the manual.

73!
Bill AB9TA


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: NT6U on September 13, 2016, 11:59:31 AM

Not sure why you decided to mount it upside down, it takes up the same space right side up, but as long as you have it in the L-bracket holes where it has air space between it and the surface below, I don't see it making any difference.

Thanks for all the replies.  I knew some would ask "why is it mounted up side down"?

Short answer is I used 2-1/2" #12 Stainless Steel Sheet Metal Screws to screw the mount to the inside of the truck.  That worked very very well, however the hex head was slightly to large and the radio bottomed out on the screw head and did not allow the screws that hold the radio to the bracket to align right side up, but they fit great with the radio upside down.
I "could" drill new holes in the mounting bracket if it would jack up the radio being upside down, but if not, as mentioned by you fine folks I'll let sleeping dogs lie.

By the way I used Breed love Mounts and they are beautiful pieces of art. A 3/8 Ball, a PL-259 and a NMO, drilled through the roof, pulled the headliner down, ran 2" braided copper straps, 2" flat copper, bonding bonding bonding.   Seems to be going OK so far.


Title: RE: TS-480 HX Installation
Post by: VE7REN on September 17, 2016, 10:54:48 AM
ive owned 3 of these radios.. and everyone was in a mobile install.. vertical install I may ad.. less room behind the seats in these newer trucks than the past.. I opted this way for what I think was a better cooling method,and dust intrusion vs laying flat on the floor mount... ive never had a problem in 10 yrs, my thoughts..