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eHam Forums => DXing => Topic started by: VK3MEG on October 11, 2018, 07:23:42 PM



Title: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3MEG on October 11, 2018, 07:23:42 PM
this is a curly one.
Sorry for posting here but you guys wont get hung up in the the tech stuff e some other forums might  comments from ftdx 5000 owners sought and others with the same dilemma. which way did you go. the sherwood numbers are there but they don't interest me i have some hearing loss so filtering  and audio is key. i work lots of ssb and cw i have the 7300 for ft8 :D if need be

i have owned sdr's had the elad fdm Duo for 2 years currently have the  ic 7300,ftdx1200, kx3 and IC 7100 ( also owned a ft920 which was killer rig came 7th in the world open ssb in the marathon with one only running 100w 2013 or 14 cant remember) looking for a dual rx rig with great filtering 200w preference but can live with 100w wont get the  new ftdx 101D cause not till next year and price. would love a k3s but cost and no support here in vkland i could buy a flex or anan but the sdr does nothing for me i'm and old school vfo guy the simple spectrum display is fine.  i'll be doing low band stuff from suburbia plus have strong interests in 10m and 6m dx.
im serious worked 275 4 band dxcc with  100w no warc bands.
im leaning to the ftdx 5000mp but the  ic 7610 has the  good point icom service is in the same city we get 5 year warranty v 3 years with yaesu old tech with the  5000 but the reviews of the  5000 tell alot of the story.
this is not an icom v yaesu thing its about what works in the worst conditions bullet proof mission critical dx rig. when they turn the antenna our way we have 3 - 5mins to be on freq find split and work them through all the others
thanks for reading this even more for a reply


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: N3QE on October 11, 2018, 07:30:01 PM
The FTDX5000 is the finest SSB rig I've ever worked with. It also does quite fine on CW and digital modes but just is so DE LUXE on SSB. Excellent speech processor on transmit and lots of filtering options on receive.

Cost-wise, the base FTDX5000 comes with all the filters and 2nd receiver the works all built in and standard.


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: N5PG on October 11, 2018, 10:00:50 PM
I've been told Icom  provides excellent support in Australia so I'd say that should carry a lot of influence in a decision on what to buy.

73, gl
Paul


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3MEG on October 12, 2018, 04:36:16 AM
it  does but yaesu support is very good as well the local yaesu repairer is a ham and  good to deal with so no issues then. this is proving to be a very tough decision do you go analog or.


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3BL on October 12, 2018, 07:04:45 AM
it  does but yaesu support is very good as well the local yaesu repairer is a ham and  good to deal with so no issues then. this is proving to be a very tough decision do you go analog or.


Just look at the back panel Steve, and it becomes obvious how much you have to add by the way of external accessories just to bring it up to 'modern rig' standards.

The FTdx-101D will be a nice rig but it lacks a lot of 7610 standard equipment such as transverter drive, an RX loop etc etc.

Its all about the back panels - they give away what a rig can really do.

At there current prices, you can't regret a 7610, and in anywhere but a remote, contest station, the IC-7610 RX performance is more than adequate, according to Rob Sherwood himself.

PS, there is nothing like watching (and listing) to 2x different antennas in real time and SEEING which one is better to work each station before you've even tuned there. :)

Good Luck!


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: W2IRT on October 13, 2018, 07:08:22 AM
Not to stir the pot, but why not consider an Elecraft K3s? For DXing, you really can't beat them, especially with the second receiver and a couple of roofing filters (500, 250 and 2100). I will never give mine up for anything. Once you get comfortable with them the performance is other-worldly good.

But with that said, if you're bound and determined to consider only those two, I'd take the Yaesu 5000 over the Icom in a heartbeat. Both are great performers, but to me, Yaesu has always had a better handle on HF DXing than Icom. Unlike for contesting, successful DXing is all about finding the QSX, and a dedicated 2nd RX is crucial.

Check out Rob Sherwood's specs, too. http://www.sherweng.com/table.html (http://www.sherweng.com/table.html). The FTDX-5000 is in 10th place and the 7610 is in 15th. The K3s is in 3rd place.


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: K0RS on October 13, 2018, 08:09:09 AM
Those of us in Colorado are fortunate to have Rob Sherwood as a local.  He's worked on my R4C (back in the day) and I sold him a T4XC.  He's often at our local hamfests.

Rob's list doesn't rate radios, it quantifies certain aspects of a receiver's performance.  There's no way he can rate many features that aren't easily measured, such as ergonomics, ease of operation, intuitiveness of controls, even eye appeal.  Nowhere are transmitter specs, physical size, whether the radio has an internal power supply or not,  quality of manufacturer support, warranty, price, or literally dozens of other parameters which make a radio acceptable to any given individual.  Indeed, many of the radios on his list aren't even tranceivers, but are receivers only.

I personally find I prefer my TS-990s to my K3s.  Nothing against the K3, just subjective preference, even though the 990 is something like 25th on Rob's list.  I sure wouldn't want to lug the 990 on a DXpedition where the K3 would obviously be preferable.  I'm not refuting Peter's judgement, just saying I wouldn't solely use Rob's list to make a selection.  There's far too many other aspects to a radio as a total package.  In some ways the list has become almost a disservice to hams.  So much weight and credibility has been placed on Rob's measurements that we often forget about other qualities of rig that make one easy (or hard) to live with.

I don't own, nor have used, either the FTDX-5000 or the Icom 7610 so I can't give first hand advice.  I can see one is much larger than the other and I believe the Yaesu has a built in power supply.  One is 200w, one 100w.  the Icom has real bandscopes.  Looking at the rear panel, it appears the 5000 has a dated DB-9 for computer control.  Are these dealbreakers for you?  I probably wouldn't buy an Icom, but that's just me.  You'll work lots of DX with either.  I have a friend with an FTDX-5000 who swore by it, but lately he's been using a K3 (non-S) that he inherited.  Go figure. 


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3MEG on October 13, 2018, 01:44:48 PM
thanks k3s is my prefered prices over here are huge by the time you get filters etc i have a kx3 so i know what they are like. i'm really close to the ftdx 5000 only draw back is no usb only rs232 for panadaptor the sdr play works through the  9mhz if out ports so thats covered im still not 1005 convinced on the sdr tech v analog + crystal filters coming bac to the 5000 the 990 is an outsider option . andyeah 200w plus the  75w class A are deal makers .
cheers
thanks for replies


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: W2IRT on October 13, 2018, 07:23:10 PM
thanks k3s is my prefered prices over here are huge by the time you get filters etc

I was pricing them out in 2016 when I went the Elecraft route, and the FTDX5000 with 200W was a little less than the K3s with the options I wanted, but not all that significant. A few hundred less. I'd rather spend more up front and be happy for decades, but the 5000 is definitely no slouch in its own right. And yes, 200W out is very, very nice. In fact, that's the only thing I don't like about the K3s. I couldn't easily operate full legal power on 30 with it unless I sent my old amp into contortions. Now with the KPA-1500 it's easy, thankfully. Plus my old radio (200W Mark V) could drive my old AL-1200 amp with about 125W, enough to get full power on 10 and 12, which I could no longer do with the K3s. Again, with the KPA-1500 that's not an issue either. Is the price-plus-shipping from the U.S. really that much higher for the K3s than the 5000?


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3MEG on October 13, 2018, 07:34:09 PM
yes it is plus the aussie dollar took a dive  70 cent so our buying power isnt great the k3 is close to 6-7k the 5000 5k plus local support no elecraft support here . The 5000 is winning after talking to an owner and few others its the likely winner


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: W6GX on October 13, 2018, 07:36:29 PM
I have a FTDX 5000 and an Elecraft P3  ;D  I love both pieces of hardware.  To me the radio is a tool to work the DX.  Any decent radio will do the job.  It all comes down to personal preferences.  You will be happy with either option.

73,
Jonathan W6GX


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3MEG on October 13, 2018, 08:37:23 PM
Quote
To me the radio is a tool to work the DX.  Any decent radio will do the job.

Very true now stuff is getting harder and from vk the openings are much shorter the right gear is needed. and as most of us know dxing is more perspiration and determination than luck to get it


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: W2IRT on October 14, 2018, 07:04:38 AM
To me the radio is a tool to work the DX.  Any decent radio will do the job. 

Well, yes and no. If I were DXing at the bottom of the solar cycle from ViktahKeelo I'd want the best receiver I could get to pull those weak signals out and reject the louder ones in crowded conditions. From there I'd be more interested in how low the noise floor is and minimum discernible signal than 2kHz rejection stats, and the 5000, 7610, and K3s are all in the same ballpark, although the RX sensitivity figures for the Icom and Yaesu are not quite as good as the Elecraft.

With Rob Sherwood's table, I wish the results were sortable by column; that would give a better picture, I think.


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: W6GX on October 14, 2018, 10:40:07 AM
If you’re talking about pulling weak signals out the noise the radio is not where you want to spend your money.  The antenna and/or tower is where it makes the biggest difference


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VE3VEE on October 14, 2018, 01:34:46 PM
Quote

the aussie dollar took a dive  70 cent so our buying power isnt great the k3 is close to 6-7k the 5000 5k


Transceivers are very very expensive. Steve, you already have excellent transceivers at home. Do you really believe spending 5k, 6k, or 7k will be worth it? Perhaps sell your old and then buy a new?  ;D

Quote

If you’re talking about pulling weak signals out the noise the radio is not where you want to spend your money.  The antenna and/or tower is where it makes the biggest difference


I agree with Jonathan.  I only own a small Kenwood TS-480. Every time I start dreaming about a nice new K3s, I quickly realize how the same money could buy me a new antenna with a longer boom, or a bigger amplifier, or perhaps I could extend my tower by another 20 or 30 feet. If there was nothing I could improve on the height or length of my antenna or on my power output, I think then and only then I would consider buying some more decent TCVR.  ;D

Marvin VE3VEE


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3MEG on October 14, 2018, 02:17:22 PM
thanks marvin one transceiver will be going from my group my ftdx 1200. re antenna's im at my limit size and height wise  suburban block 55' wide my 6m beam has a  9m long boom my hf  6.5m it has been 8.25 need to reduce beam lengths to fit more antenna's , warc antenna due to wind loading on tower 20,15 and 10 i have great country counts nearly double dxcc on all but 10m is special to me. my noise floor is not great has got much worse as new houses have been built around me. so need better filtering. i was like you guys i have always bought low to middle range radios the elad had great rx and filtering but the software was a pita for me the 7300 is ok but really need the dual rx to nail the split . i have got an amp not a big one and its doing its job with a big difference al 811 400 watt limit here will get a bigger one one day also the  200w tx will help on 6m without need for another amp :D. i have interests in  2/70cm which i have shelved for the time being. and too boot our high band season is very very late this year.................


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VE3VEE on October 14, 2018, 02:34:41 PM
Quote

re antenna's im at my limit size and height wise


Steve, then by no means go for it. Buy the very best. If you feel K3s is the best, but it has no support in your country, I would still take the chance and buy it anyway.  ;D

Marvin VE3VEE


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3MEG on October 14, 2018, 05:46:15 PM
ok marvin but the k3 new is out of my budget due to teh state of the aussie dollar quick question does the ftdx 5000 have an on board tuner as standard i cant find anything in the specs



Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: W2IRT on October 14, 2018, 06:07:53 PM
I believe it does have a built-in tuner (at least one model does; not sure about all of them).

If your antenna system is maxed out and you have legal-limit power for your country, then the radio should be the best you can get. In case you weren't aware, the FTDX-5000 series was discontinued a few years ago. Not sure if that will be an issue for you down the road in terms of repairs, should that become necessary.


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: N3QE on October 15, 2018, 07:06:22 AM
In case you weren't aware, the FTDX-5000 series was discontinued a few years ago.

Most definitely is not discontinued. I know of many buyers just in the past year (many of them buying their 2nd FTDX5000 they liked the first so much).

But Yaesu hasn't been discussing the future of the FTDX5000 much. Other than ongoing, neverending OLED replacement negotiations that every FTDX5000 owner knows about!


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: N3QE on October 15, 2018, 07:10:57 AM
ok marvin but the k3 new is out of my budget due to teh state of the aussie dollar quick question does the ftdx 5000 have an on board tuner as standard i cant find anything in the specs

Page 72 of the FTDX5000 manual.
(http://n3qe.org/5000.png)

See, that's the thing, everything that's an option for any other radio, it comes standard on the base FTDX5000. So in an interweb search you don't find endless discussions about the options.

As to budget, if you are looking for a new rig with dual receivers and all the filters, here in the US the base FTDX5000 is a lot cheaper than a K3 after you've added all those options.


Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3MEG on October 15, 2018, 03:23:08 PM
Quote
As to budget, if you are looking for a new rig with dual receivers and all the filters, here in the US the base FTDX5000 is a lot cheaper than a K3 after you've added all those options.
same here but even more pronounced this is like a see saw but keeps coming back to the ftdx 5000
thanks re the tuner in the basic brochure its not mentioned yaesu have great tuners built into their radios if it wont tune your wires go back and do more work on your wires.
anyway just made the decision  FTDX 5000 leaving soon to pick it up



Title: RE: /off topic ftdx 5000mp v ic7610 which would you choose for serious dxing
Post by: VK3MEG on October 16, 2018, 02:33:28 AM
thanks every one for the comments it was a big help. Radio is plugged in all i can say is WOW i also got the station monitor sm 5000 if you are going to do a job do it properly