eHam

eHam Forums => Computers And Software => Topic started by: AA6YQ on January 14, 2019, 11:15:54 AM



Title: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: AA6YQ on January 14, 2019, 11:15:54 AM
1. Amplitude Modulation (AM): 1900

2. Semi-automatic CW Keys (Bugs): 1902

3. Vacuum Tubes: 1906

4. Single Sideband (SSB): 1915

5. Radio Teletype (RTTY): 1922

6. Repeaters: 1935

7. Electronic CW Keyers: 1945

8. Transistors: 1948

9. Electronic digital programmable computers: 1948

10. Antenna Rotators: 1950

11. Integrated Circuits: 1958

12. Digital Signal Processing: 1960

13. Microprocessors: 1971

14. the Internet: 1972

15. CW Decoding Software: 1975

16. Packet Radio: 1980

17. DX Clusters: 1989

18. Pactor: 1991

19. PSK: 1998

20: FT8: 2017


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: NI0C on January 14, 2019, 02:46:02 PM
I guess we could quibble about a couple of the dates given.  1915 seems awfully early for Single Sideband.  It's introduction to ham radio was still very much underway when I was first licensed in 1959. I believe Central Electronics introduced some of the first SSB transmitters in the mid 1950's. 

Likewise, 1960 seems early for digital signal processing.  The Fast Fourier Transform  became generally known from the Cooley-Tukey paper of 1965, and digital filtering theory was still much under development in the early 1970's.  Mostly, though we were waiting for hardware developments such as fast multiply-add chips before much of DSP theory could be implemented in ways that would impact ham radio. These developments came along years later. DSP augmented transceivers didn't come along until around 1990 (e.g., Kenwood TS-850S with DSP-100, ICOM IC-756 pro II, etc).


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: KC0W on January 14, 2019, 04:39:10 PM
1. Amplitude Modulation (AM)
2. Semi-automatic CW Keys (Bugs)
3. Vacuum Tubes
4. Single Sideband (SSB)
5. Radio Teletype (RTTY)
6. Repeaters
7. Electronic CW Keyers
8. Transistors
9. Electronic digital programmable computers
10. Antenna Rotators
11. Integrated Circuits
12. Digital Signal Processing
13. Microprocessors
14. the Internet
15. CW Decoding Software
16. Packet Radio
17. DX Clusters
18. Pactor
19. PSK
20: FT8

  I use exactly 50% of the list. (I'm being generous regarding SSB) What does this mean at the end of the day?.............Probably nothing.

                                                                  Tom KC0W  
 


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: WW7KE on January 14, 2019, 06:19:48 PM
3a.  Regenerative receivers:  1912
3b.  Superheterodyne receivers:  1918

5a.  Single-signal IF filters:  1932


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: AA6YQ on January 14, 2019, 06:58:52 PM
I guess we could quibble about a couple of the dates given.  1915 seems awfully early for Single Sideband.  It's introduction to ham radio was still very much underway when I was first licensed in 1959. I believe Central Electronics introduced some of the first SSB transmitters in the mid 1950's. 

Likewise, 1960 seems early for digital signal processing.  The Fast Fourier Transform  became generally known from the Cooley-Tukey paper of 1965, and digital filtering theory was still much under development in the early 1970's.  Mostly, though we were waiting for hardware developments such as fast multiply-add chips before much of DSP theory could be implemented in ways that would impact ham radio. These developments came along years later. DSP augmented transceivers didn't come along until around 1990 (e.g., Kenwood TS-850S with DSP-100, ICOM IC-756 pro II, etc).

Here's the 1915 SSB patent, Chuck: Method and means for signaling with high-frequency waves (https://patents.google.com/patent/US1449382).

DSP was developed in the late 1950s and early 1960s: The Roots of DSP (https://www.dspguide.com/ch1/1.htm). Steve KA9MVA, a practicing EE, just posted on Facebook that he recently implemented a DSP filter based on a paper written in 1959.

Both of these technologies took decades before being broadly incorporated into amateur equipment. Other technological advances -- like microprocessors -- were much more rapidly adopted.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: AA6YQ on January 14, 2019, 07:03:20 PM
The point of my post is that too many ops react to new technologies by ominously predicting that they will ruin amateur radio. This has been going on for a century, yet every one of these predictions has been wrong.

We are expected to advance the state of the art in radio communications. This is one of the reasons why governments around the world give us access to electromagnetic spectrum.



Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: NK7Z on January 14, 2019, 07:11:21 PM
Most folks that become Amateur Operators, are curious about how things work.  That is innate in their personalities...  That is why they became Amateur Operators in the first place...  Sure some just want to play radio, and that is great, for them, but if you look at Dave's list, it is not what killed ham radio-- it is what built ham radio, those are achievements, not steps towards oblivion...


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: KS2G on January 14, 2019, 07:42:08 PM
Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy

You forgot the very first one.... CW!

 ;)


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: NI0C on January 14, 2019, 07:58:40 PM
I guess we could quibble about a couple of the dates given.  1915 seems awfully early for Single Sideband.  It's introduction to ham radio was still very much underway when I was first licensed in 1959. I believe Central Electronics introduced some of the first SSB transmitters in the mid 1950's. 

Likewise, 1960 seems early for digital signal processing.  The Fast Fourier Transform  became generally known from the Cooley-Tukey paper of 1965, and digital filtering theory was still much under development in the early 1970's.  Mostly, though we were waiting for hardware developments such as fast multiply-add chips before much of DSP theory could be implemented in ways that would impact ham radio. These developments came along years later. DSP augmented transceivers didn't come along until around 1990 (e.g., Kenwood TS-850S with DSP-100, ICOM IC-756 pro II, etc).

Here's the 1915 SSB patent, Chuck: Method and means for signaling with high-frequency waves (https://patents.google.com/patent/US1449382).

DSP was developed in the late 1950s and early 1960s: The Roots of DSP (https://www.dspguide.com/ch1/1.htm). Steve KA9MVA, a practicing EE, just posted on Facebook that he recently implemented a DSP filter based on a paper written in 1959.

Both of these technologies took decades before being broadly incorporated into amateur equipment. Other technological advances -- like microprocessors -- were much more rapidly adopted.
It was a long time between the concept of the wheel and its application in the horseless carriage. 

During the late 1970's I designed digital filters for analysis of aircraft vibration and acoustic measurements.  These were for implementation on mainframe and mini-computers available at the time.  The A/D converter used was a rack mounted unit.  Thirty years later, I purchased an Elecraft K3 that has IIR and FIR DSP filters, plus DSP NR, AGC, and APF functions in a small package that draws less than 2A at 14V.

But, I'll stop quibbling, and acknowledge that your chart seems consistent in providing dates of initial concepts rather than application to amateur radio communications. 

73 de Chuck  NI0C


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: N5INP on January 14, 2019, 08:14:29 PM
Good list.

May I suggest the inclusion of non-home made equipment (i.e. commercially-made out-of-the-box transceivers)?


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: OZ8AGB on January 15, 2019, 01:14:41 AM
N5INP:

Was thinking the same thing. That should be #1 on the list.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: N1AUP on January 17, 2019, 11:18:55 AM
Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy

You forgot the very first one.... CW!

 ;)

Dag nabbit!

Things were just fine when spark gap transmitters were the rage.  Then those tube things came, and ruined the hobby.

Young whipper snappers always making changes.

I guess it's time to take my Geritol, and watch Lawrence Welk.

:-)





Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: ON5MF on January 17, 2019, 11:59:42 AM
And where's network radio in the list?


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: N9LCD on January 17, 2019, 05:08:34 PM
What about AC power supplies for HV B+ & filaments?

Until well into the 20's they used zinc-carbon cells for B+ and lead-acid batteries for the filament supply.

And as we all know, zinc-carbon cells aren't rechargeable!


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: N0YXB on January 18, 2019, 09:06:55 AM
Most folks that become Amateur Operators, are curious about how things work.  That is innate in their personalities...  That is why they became Amateur Operators in the first place...  Sure some just want to play radio, and that is great, for them, but if you look at Dave's list, it is not what killed ham radio-- it is what built ham radio, those are achievements, not steps towards oblivion...

Indeed!  +1.


The point of my post is that too many ops react to new technologies by ominously predicting that they will ruin amateur radio. This has been going on for a century, yet every one of these predictions has been wrong.

So true. The sky is not falling.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: N9LCD on January 20, 2019, 05:30:39 PM
Quote
The point of my post is that too many ops react to new technologies by ominously predicting that they will ruin amateur radio

The op's aren't bellyaching about "new technology", they're really bellyaching about the intrusion upon their "hallowed frequencies" by the unwashed masses the new technology will bring.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: K0UA on January 20, 2019, 05:47:42 PM
Well, in every one of these displacement technologies, what the OB's are really bellyaching about is the fact when something new and better comes along that advances the state of the art, it means the new guys don't have to "suffer" like I did. And if a new guy doesn't have to suffer like I did then "IT AIN'T FAIR!"  "everyone should have to suffer like I did or otherwise I just suffered in vain".

 Every new advancement that comes along that makes life easier just means I was too STUPID to invent it myself and enjoy its benefits. And no one wants to think of themselves as stupid.  "YOU CAN'T USE THAT! IT IS RUINING HAM RADIO"  We always have to do things the old way. Cause that is the way it was, and By GUM, that is the way it is going to be too, if I have any say so in it!. so there!.

Such as it always was, such as it will always be. So it shall be written, So it shall be done..


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: W1VT on January 21, 2019, 09:03:51 AM
The op's aren't bellyaching about "new technology", they're really bellyaching about the intrusion upon their "hallowed frequencies" by the unwashed masses the new technology will bring.

This isn't a problem with FT8.  It packs a lot of users into a very small segment of the band, so that there is more room for hams who wish to rag chew using traditional modes like CW and SSB.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: KX4OM on January 21, 2019, 07:13:06 PM
Frequency counters have taken the fun out of it.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: W1VT on January 22, 2019, 07:31:40 AM
I built a homebrew frequency counter that features a rewound transformer!  I used it to monitor the frequency of my homebrew 30M transceiver so I could get close to the band edge!


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: KW4JX on January 23, 2019, 03:33:12 AM
Incentive licensing


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: KB2WVO on January 30, 2019, 01:20:34 PM
not one thing on that list hurts ham radio..
its the airwaves themselfs..

ever sit back and listen to the BULL-HIT on some of the freqs... even the hams themselfs gettin nasty about this or that if your not in there click ...

radio is killing itself...

who would want to get there ticket after listening to the crap out there..... its one of the reasons iam out of the hobby ...
net this net that. f this f that. ur not in the click goaway . its our freq get off it.
and answers such as its been goin on for years .. yeah dont do nothing to chage it.. just let it go on n on n on ..


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: K7MEM on January 30, 2019, 02:52:29 PM
ever sit back and listen to the BULL-HIT on some of the freqs... even the hams themselfs gettin nasty about this or that if your not in there click ...

Nope! Never have listened to that stuff. And I have been doing this since 1965. Life is far to short to listen to that crap. Spin the dial.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: KB2WVO on January 30, 2019, 07:07:47 PM
ever sit back and listen to the BULL-HIT on some of the freqs... even the hams themselfs gettin nasty about this or that if your not in there click ...

Nope! Never have listened to that stuff. And I have been doing this since 1965. Life is far to short to listen to that crap. Spin the dial.


i get that spin the dial. but yep theres the butt lol ..... its out there and kids can come across it. so on.. parents might hear it and say ooo no way .. then tell the kids turn off thr radio and they forget about it and so on... it is what it is.. so be it..
spin the dial is rite. but its still there...

i guess i thought hams were a better class of people then that...


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: W5TD on February 01, 2019, 07:58:38 PM
The point of my post is that too many ops react to new technologies by ominously predicting that they will ruin amateur radio. This has been going on for a century, yet every one of these predictions has been wrong.

Kind of like the prediction that if we don't get more young people involved in ham radio, it is going to die.  I have been hearing that since I was first licensed in 1980 also.

73 John AF5CC


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: K7KB on February 02, 2019, 02:06:07 PM
ever sit back and listen to the BULL-HIT on some of the freqs... even the hams themselfs gettin nasty about this or that if your not in there click ...

Nope! Never have listened to that stuff. And I have been doing this since 1965. Life is far to short to listen to that crap. Spin the dial.



i get that spin the dial. but yep theres the butt lol ..... its out there and kids can come across it. so on.. parents might hear it and say ooo no way .. then tell the kids turn off thr radio and they forget about it and so on... it is what it is.. so be it..
spin the dial is rite. but its still there...

i guess i thought hams were a better class of people then that...


I think you are generalizing humanity in general. There is always a jerk in every crowd, even in Amateur Radio. However, for the most part, I’ve always found most hams to be friendly and helpful. I’m sorry you had a bad experience in the past, but hopefully you will give us another try sometime in the future.

John K7KB


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: AC1DR on February 02, 2019, 02:09:08 PM
Technical advances have not killed Amateur Radio they have made it incredibly better.  Amateur Radio is a hobby to foster wireless communication via radio wave propagation.  The many technology advances have facilitated the broadening of our hobby to include VHF, UHF, SSB, and many new Digital modes.  Whether the hardware is spark gap, crystals, Vacuum tubes, Transistors, VLSI Circuits, augmented by Digital Signal Processing, Microprocessors, software define radios, or the next great invention, DOES NOT diminish the hobby, it greatly enhances the hobby.  Whether you like to build a home-brew tube amplifier, assemble a solid state kit, design and construct your own antenna farm, purchase available old/new equipment, and operate CW, Voice and/or one of the digital modes, the hobby has something for everyone.......SP


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: W4JCK on February 05, 2019, 10:52:29 AM
Ah, the good old days of spark.  God, I love the smell of ozone in the morning.



Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: KD8MJR on February 10, 2019, 10:18:30 PM
You also forgot Echolink and RHR.

I will also say that yes if we don't get younger people involved the Hobby will eventually die
when the last generation that was interested goes SK.


73s
Rob




Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: W1VT on February 12, 2019, 06:29:49 AM

I will also say that yes if we don't get younger people involved the Hobby will eventually die
when the last generation that was interested goes SK. 73s Rob

If you want to get young people interested, I suggest you engage in whatever ham radio activities you find interesting.  They are far more interested in what they can do now, instead of listening to stories about how good things used to be.

I worked Western Sahara on 160M this morning for a new country on FT8!

Zak W1VT


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: AE5GT on February 13, 2019, 12:10:56 PM
1. Amplitude Modulation (AM): 1900

2. Semi-automatic CW Keys (Bugs): 1902

3. Vacuum Tubes: 1906

4. Single Sideband (SSB): 1915

5. Radio Teletype (RTTY): 1922

6. Repeaters: 1935

7. Electronic CW Keyers: 1945

8. Transistors: 1948

9. Electronic digital programmable computers: 1948

10. Antenna Rotators: 1950

11. Integrated Circuits: 1958

12. Digital Signal Processing: 1960

13. Microprocessors: 1971

14. the Internet: 1972

15. CW Decoding Software: 1975

16. Packet Radio: 1980

17. DX Clusters: 1989

18. Pactor: 1991

19. PSK: 1998

20: FT8: 2017


You can engineer yourself out of existence , Auto Racing tried to to back in the 67 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP-Paxton_Turbocar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP-Paxton_Turbocar) 
And if you get rid of the tires and wheels it would go even faster. They basicly outlawed them ,
You have to deal with the fundamental question , when does it cease to be a car

Recent "advances" in amatuer radio have the same consequences , Is an Operator an operator if he doesn't do anything ? Should you receive a DXCC for doing nothing ? Because thats where we are headed. If we are not there now we'll be there soon.

If one has been around for while , you only have to listen to the bands to know that activity is down . You can argue over the reasons . Most of those listed have had little or no effect. Fiber optic and cellphones are probably the biggest reason ...cheap long distance and personal communications.  The internet is really just a result of cheap long distance.

To me using FT8 in the RTTY Roundup , is like allowing a moped in the Tour De France  but only if you use the peddles , it makes no sense.
 




Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: W1VT on February 13, 2019, 02:29:09 PM
My eQSL country totals are nearly identical--112 on FT8 and 114 on RTTY!


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: AA6YQ on February 13, 2019, 06:45:41 PM

You can engineer yourself out of existence , Auto Racing tried to to back in the 67 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP-Paxton_Turbocar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP-Paxton_Turbocar) 
And if you get rid of the tires and wheels it would go even faster. They basicly outlawed them ,
You have to deal with the fundamental question , when does it cease to be a car

Recent "advances" in amatuer radio have the same consequences , Is an Operator an operator if he doesn't do anything ? Should you receive a DXCC for doing nothing ? Because thats where we are headed. If we are not there now we'll be there soon.

For at least the past 30 years, it has been possible to build a fully automated "DX station" that makes CW or RTTY QSOs 7x24; digital modes like PSK and FT8 have made it even easier to construct an automated station. No one has bothered because it would eliminate the exciting part of DXing, leaving only the dreaded paperwork.

If one has been around for while, you only have to listen to the bands to know that activity is down . You can argue over the reasons . Most of those listed have had little or no effect. Fiber optic and cellphones are probably the biggest reason ...cheap long distance and personal communications.  The internet is really just a result of cheap long distance.

You have that backwards: cheap long distance is the result of the internet; phone companies can't charge much for long distance when free internet-based alternatives are available. The internet is the result of research funded by DARPA back in the 1960s and 1970s.

To me using FT8 in the RTTY Roundup , is like allowing a moped in the Tour De France  but only if you use the peddles , it makes no sense.

RTTY using a macro-providing application like FLDigi or MMTTY is not much different than FT8.
 


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: W9FIB on February 14, 2019, 12:48:57 AM
Recent "advances" in amatuer radio have the same consequences , Is an Operator an operator if he doesn't do anything ? Should you receive a DXCC for doing nothing ? Because thats where we are headed. If we are not there now we'll be there soon.
Advances in HR are just that...steps forward with new technologies. But the key ingredient that remains is radio. You still need to be able to transmit and receive. You still need antennas and feedlines. You still need to know propagation. You still need skills to operate the equipment.

You can't just hand a computer geek a software package and expect him to have an operating station. Somewhere along the line you need to know radio skills to accomplish a QSO.

Easier? I would argue that all advances have made HR easier in their own way. Otherwise we would all still be using spark gap transmitters yet. Or we would still have big boxes of tubes instead of SDR transceivers. Or we would look for DX only with our ears instead of a waterfall display.

Do nothing for DXCC? Totally impossible without radio skills. Just that things like FT8 and other digital modes take the place of a CW key or a mic. But the computer still needs to be plugged into that magic box that sends and receives those modes from around the world and even the moon. And no matter what you run through that magic box, you still need to be a HR OP to make things work. And that's not nothing.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: N0YXB on February 14, 2019, 12:09:31 PM
Easier? I would argue that all advances have made HR easier in their own way. Otherwise we would all still be using spark gap transmitters yet. Or we would still have big boxes of tubes instead of SDR transceivers. Or we would look for DX only with our ears instead of a waterfall display.

Do nothing for DXCC? Totally impossible without radio skills. Just that things like FT8 and other digital modes take the place of a CW key or a mic. But the computer still needs to be plugged into that magic box that sends and receives those modes from around the world and even the moon. And no matter what you run through that magic box, you still need to be a HR OP to make things work. And that's not nothing.

Indeed! To me this boils down to a silly argument about protocols or modulation methods. If someone likes CW, that's great, have fun. Rather operate FT8, or RTTY, or SSB, or AM? Well that's great too, have fun.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: K7KB on February 17, 2019, 10:22:11 PM
Recent "advances" in amatuer radio have the same consequences , Is an Operator an operator if he doesn't do anything ? Should you receive a DXCC for doing nothing ? Because thats where we are headed. If we are not there now we'll be there soon.
Advances in HR are just that...steps forward with new technologies. But the key ingredient that remains is radio. You still need to be able to transmit and receive. You still need antennas and feedlines. You still need to know propagation. You still need skills to operate the equipment.

You can't just hand a computer geek a software package and expect him to have an operating station. Somewhere along the line you need to know radio skills to accomplish a QSO.

Easier? I would argue that all advances have made HR easier in their own way. Otherwise we would all still be using spark gap transmitters yet. Or we would still have big boxes of tubes instead of SDR transceivers. Or we would look for DX only with our ears instead of a waterfall display.

Do nothing for DXCC? Totally impossible without radio skills. Just that things like FT8 and other digital modes take the place of a CW key or a mic. But the computer still needs to be plugged into that magic box that sends and receives those modes from around the world and even the moon. And no matter what you run through that magic box, you still need to be a HR OP to make things work. And that's not nothing.

+1 You nailed it Stan.


Title: RE: Technical Advances That Have Killed Amateur Radio by Making It Too Easy
Post by: K0UA on February 19, 2019, 02:00:10 PM
Easier? I would argue that all advances have made HR easier in their own way. Otherwise we would all still be using spark gap transmitters yet. Or we would still have big boxes of tubes instead of SDR transceivers. Or we would look for DX only with our ears instead of a waterfall display.

Do nothing for DXCC? Totally impossible without radio skills. Just that things like FT8 and other digital modes take the place of a CW key or a mic. But the computer still needs to be plugged into that magic box that sends and receives those modes from around the world and even the moon. And no matter what you run through that magic box, you still need to be a HR OP to make things work. And that's not nothing.

Indeed! To me this boils down to a silly argument about protocols or modulation methods. If someone likes CW, that's great, have fun. Rather operate FT8, or RTTY, or SSB, or AM? Well that's great too, have fun.

Amen x2