eHam

eHam Forums => VHF / UHF => Topic started by: N4UE on February 10, 2019, 04:31:54 PM



Title: Icom 9700
Post by: N4UE on February 10, 2019, 04:31:54 PM
It seems that the new Icom 9700 has created a huge surge of interest. Lots of pre-orders for this high performance 2/432/1296 radio.
If it is as successful as it's hf/6m twin, there will be LOTS of older VHF/UHF radios on the market.

Rob Sherwood has already sold his trusty Icom 275H in anticipation of the 9700.

He has 2 7300s.

Yes Clayton, the 9700 has the despised (by only you) touch screen.
Horror of horrors... ha ha

ron
N4UE


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: K3GM on February 10, 2019, 06:38:11 PM
Does anyone have a confirmed US price yet?  Based on a post on my club reflector, it would appear that the initial price is more than what has been floated here.

"....a while back, I sent a $50 deposit to DX Engineering to reserve this new rig which is now FCC approved, but decided at $2100 I won't be purchasing it....."

If that price is true, it would be a few hundred dollars more than what has been speculated based on the European price with VAT.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: WD9EWK on February 10, 2019, 09:46:05 PM
Does anyone have a confirmed US price yet?  Based on a post on my club reflector, it would appear that the initial price is more than what has been floated here.

"....a while back, I sent a $50 deposit to DX Engineering to reserve this new rig which is now FCC approved, but decided at $2100 I won't be purchasing it....."

If that price is true, it would be a few hundred dollars more than what has been speculated based on the European price with VAT.

Price is $2099.95 from dealers like HRO, Universal Radio, and Gigaparts. DX Engineering wants $2098.99 for it. Prices went up on web sites Friday. BTW no FCC certification is required for the IC-9700, as it only covers the 3 ham bands.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: WB8LBZ on February 13, 2019, 04:50:10 PM
Give R and L a look for $300 less. http://www.randl.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=74768

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: K3GM on February 13, 2019, 06:21:25 PM
Give R and L a look for $300 less. http://www.randl.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=74768
...........
Out of stock already, but I think that price is closer to what was being discussed in previous threads.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: WD9EWK on February 13, 2019, 08:44:24 PM
Out of stock already, but I think that price is closer to what was being discussed in previous threads.

Nobody has them in stock in the US yet, but stores are taking orders. R&L is undercutting the other stores on the price right now, but perhaps we can use that for price-matching at other stores.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: WB8LBZ on February 13, 2019, 09:30:39 PM
There was an estimate of 05/29/2019 delivery on DX Engineering website. that might be when the dealers start getting them.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: WB8LBZ on March 31, 2019, 01:35:35 PM
I was just notified by DX Engineering that I can expect my 9700 on 04/08/2019, before my taxes are due!

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: N0YXB on March 31, 2019, 05:30:04 PM
I was just notified by DX Engineering that I can expect my 9700 on 04/08/2019, before my taxes are due!

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX


Sweet. Hope you let us know what you think once you've had time to put it through its paces.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: AB1XG on April 06, 2019, 08:23:56 AM
HRO called me yesterday, my 9700 came in.

I took a road trip and picked it up, though I won't be able to install it until tonight or tomorrow.

David AB1XG


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: N8LRG on April 26, 2019, 08:25:05 AM
Hello Everyone,
 
Just used the IC-9700 in the 432 Sprint. I thought I would post my thoughts on performance. I went from an FT-847 to the IC-9700. All of my usage has been mostly SSB/CW/Digital.

1. RX is exceptional. I can and see hear the difference. I am hearing beacons that were not heard before. Stations I have worked before were 3db or better on the the RX side.
2. Contest performance. Built in Voice and CW TX memories. Make or buy your keyer box and you will be pleased.
3. Dual band RX. Perfect for satellite work.
4. One USB cable and ICOM driver and you are up and running with digital or logging software. I use WSJT-X and N1MM.
5. Band Scope is nice to have but would be better to have higher bandwidth settings.
6. 10mhz  Ref in is not Phased locked but allows the radio to adjust the internal TXCO to the reference signal.

Overall I am very pleased with the radio as I did several 432 contacts over 450 miles away during the 432 Sprint(17 Grids). I am looking forward to using the abundance of features on this radio. If you are a weak signal operator, this needs to be in your ham shack.

73 Phil
N8LRG
 


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: W4KVW on May 08, 2019, 05:56:29 PM
It seems that the new Icom 9700 has created a huge surge of interest. Lots of pre-orders for this high performance 2/432/1296 radio.
If it is as successful as it's hf/6m twin, there will be LOTS of older VHF/UHF radios on the market.

Rob Sherwood has already sold his trusty Icom 275H in anticipation of the 9700.

He has 2 7300s.

Yes Clayton, the 9700 has the despised (by only you) touch screen.
Horror of horrors... ha ha
Ron-N4UE



Well I am so Excited about the New 9700 that I have a KENWOOD TS-2000 on the way as my New VHF/UHF all mode base. I will continue using my ICOM 7600 for HF/6 meters. I will however be parting with my ICOM 275A,amplifier,& SM-8 with both cords. I have already read & heard about issues of frequency drift so may they be lots for those blind sheep who can't read the handwriting on the walls. Nothing like a drifting transceiver that reminds you of the good old days. ICOM is Out Of Touch & thinks they now make Cell Phones,iPads,& Laptops. LOL  :o ;D :D :-[

Clayton
W4KVW



Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: N4UE on May 09, 2019, 04:48:23 PM
Clayton, unwind those panties. What's wrong? Can't afford a 9700 or just mad because you can't figure out how to use a touch screen?

You need to move up into 2019. I'll bet your 7600 doesn't even have he waterfall update.

Too much fried chicken on those chubby digits to use a touch screen? They make screen protectors for guys like you.  :)

HA HA

If, and a BIG IF, you have been following any recent 9700 info, you would realize this 'drift' you are talking about is a non-issue.
Lots of folks have had extended QSOs on 70 CM and report no SSB issues.

Are you going to do moon bounce on 23 CM? I doubt it.

In addition, Icom is about to release a Firmware update to control the drift for the digital modes ….
You need to stay on 11 Meters with your D-104 collection. No moon bounce there, good buddy....10-4?


'ron
N4UE


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: W4KVW on May 10, 2019, 09:08:08 AM
Clayton, unwind those panties. What's wrong? Can't afford a 9700 or just mad because you can't figure out how to use a touch screen?

You need to move up into 2019. I'll bet your 7600 doesn't even have he waterfall update.

Too much fried chicken on those chubby digits to use a touch screen? They make screen protectors for guys like you.  :)

HA HA

If, and a BIG IF, you have been following any recent 9700 info, you would realize this 'drift' you are talking about is a non-issue.
Lots of folks have had extended QSOs on 70 CM and report no SSB issues.

Are you going to do moon bounce on 23 CM? I doubt it.

In addition, Icom is about to release a Firmware update to control the drift for the digital modes ….
You need to stay on 11 Meters with your D-104 collection. No moon bounce there, good buddy....10-4?


'ron
N4UE

Latest eHam Review of the Perfect ICOM 9700 in case you missed it. LOL  Digital Disaster Radio    Time owned: 0 to 3 months
While the other reviewers have focused on SSB and CW, if you are a digital weak signal operator you are in for a horrifying surprise. First, frequency stability with the fan running is a disaster, its all over the place.

Worse yet, the radio will NOT pass 9600 baud packet of any kind.

I spoke with ICOM this morning they are "aware" of these issues, no plan to release a solution "at this time"

If you are a weak signal guy, or digital guy do NOT sell your other radio and buy this one.

Peter
W2PP

Shame it's a NON ISSUE but I know it is difficult admitting it after being out the $2000 that you can't get back. LOL Myself & many others know the TRUTH about this Disaster for a VHF/UHF transceiver. It has issues much like you & you won't admit either but others can read the blogs & watch the YouTube videos & not take your biased reports.Have a great weekend now.  :P :P :P :-* :-* :-* ;D ;D ;D

Clayton
W4KVW


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: K6JH on May 10, 2019, 07:18:23 PM
Peoples still use packet?   ;)
I suppose if you want to packet repeat through ISS or use some of the other satellites.

9600 baud uses straight FSK, not AFSK. So with normal FM rigs you have special I/O provisions for 9600 FSK, as the voice/mike circuits won't maintain proper signal fidelity to do AFSK. Now I suppose with that fancy FPGA doing all the heavy lifting they could have designed in the proper modulation/demod functions. I expect Icom just made the decision it wasn't worth it, having simply lifted much of the signal processing logic from their HF radios.

More 9600 tech info:
https://www.amsat.org/articles/g3ruh/109.html (https://www.amsat.org/articles/g3ruh/109.html)
ftp://ftp.tapr.org/general/9600baud/96man2x0.txt (http://ftp://ftp.tapr.org/general/9600baud/96man2x0.txt)

I'm not going to make excuses for the frequency stability issue. With the popularity of weak signal JT modes these days, in normal use and EME, ICOM should have foreseen the need for better stability.

Both issues may be able to be addressed in software updates (can the FPGA be updated that way?) I expect ICOM is feeling enough lack of sales pressure to want to update for stability, but I doubt if there will be enough complaining about no packet.

It feels a little like the 9700 was rushed to market before it was time.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: KD7RDZI2 on May 12, 2019, 01:39:24 AM
Peoples still use packet?   ;)
.... I expect Icom just made the decision it wasn't worth it, having simply lifted much of the signal processing logic from their HF radios.

Of course, packet is used for Winlink. No words if this is true... sending emails over radio is possible even with my UV2D Wouxun and a small packet interface PLXTracker.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: VE3WGO on May 12, 2019, 03:57:47 PM
I noted in my reply in the "ARTICLE: VK7MO-Review of IC-9700 for Weak Signal Digital Modes" in this same forum post that the IC-9700 is actually performing better than spec.  It's just that the spec is loose and nobody noticed it last year when the specs were first published...

73, Ed


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: K6JH on May 13, 2019, 01:41:39 AM
I noted in my reply in the "ARTICLE: VK7MO-Review of IC-9700 for Weak Signal Digital Modes" in this same forum post that the IC-9700 is actually performing better than spec.  It's just that the spec is loose and nobody noticed it last year when the specs were first published...

73, Ed

Yes, for non-critical applications most users can accept 0.5 ppm.

But the fact is that there was a "10MHZ Reference In" jack on the back in publicity photos and the show units on public display, but with no explanation of it's limitations. On other ICOM transceivers that jack allows the radio to be locked to an external reference for more critical applications, like JT modes or 10GHz transverters. So ICOM knows how it should work. Yet on the 9700 that only allows for on demand calibration.

They just about hit another home run like on the 7300, but tripped and only made it to second base.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: K3GM on May 13, 2019, 08:14:31 AM
I’m sure this will be a popular question at Dayton this week.  I know I’m going to ask what they were thinking.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: VE3WGO on May 13, 2019, 06:01:58 PM
It is interesting that maybe roughly a year and a half ago, when the IC-9700 was first making the rounds at the Japan Hamfair and later last year at Hamvention, and the first photos of the radio were surfacing, the rear pictures did not show a 10 MHz input connector at all.  The space below the RJ-45 LAN connector was empty back then.

It was not until summer of 2018, when the pre-release brochure came out, that the 10 MHz input connector showed up, located below the RJ-45.

The background story must be interesting for that 10 MHz connector's sudden appearance.

73, Ed


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: K3GM on May 13, 2019, 07:53:04 PM
....the IC-9700 is actually performing better than spec.  It's just that the spec is loose and nobody noticed it last year when the specs were first published.....
But is it?  The advertised frequency stability of 0.5ppm is over a 126° F span. The drifts seen are no doubt over a much narrower temperature span.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: K3GM on May 13, 2019, 08:26:29 PM
Hmmm... let's try that again...

But is it?  The advertised frequency stability of 0.5ppm is over a 126° F span. But the drifts seen in the videos are no doubt over a much narrower temperature span.  To me, there isn't enough data to determine if the observed drift may actually  exceed the spec for that span.  I had a sweaty wad of cash in hand hoping to come home from Dayton with an order for one, but not until this problem is addressed and rectified.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: W9IQ on May 14, 2019, 02:57:14 AM
I think you are misinterpreting the specification. The 0.5 ppm is guaranteed if the radio is kept anywhere within that temperature range. It does not mean the 0.5 ppm occurs at the extremes of the temperature range.

- Glenn W9IQ


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: AA2UK on May 14, 2019, 05:44:35 AM
I think there might be some bad assumptions on the freq drift issue. It has yet to be verified that we are dealing with a thermal issue. I'm thinking it might be a voltage regulation issue?
Bill AA2UK


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: W4KVW on May 14, 2019, 08:31:50 AM
Hmmm... let's try that again...

But is it?  The advertised frequency stability of 0.5ppm is over a 126° F span. But the drifts seen in the videos are no doubt over a much narrower temperature span.  To me, there isn't enough data to determine if the observed drift may actually  exceed the spec for that span.  I had a sweaty wad of cash in hand hoping to come home from Dayton with an order for one, but not until this problem is addressed and rectified.

LOL,I am guessing that you will NOT be bringing one home because it won't be corrected by then if at all since the specs pretty much show that it drifts pretty badly.Not sure why it would ever be considered an EME Rig or any digital mode which is pretty much what people want them for since few people need a microphone any longer.Better off with a 910H,9100,or other model that is far more stable.Being the Newest Toy does NOT make it the Best Toy.

Clayton
W4KVW


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: KF4HR on May 22, 2019, 09:03:07 PM
I received my IC-9700 today from Gigaparts, to replace my aging Yaesu FT-736R.  I managed to get a Dayton discount.  So far I'm very impressed. 


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: G4AON on May 23, 2019, 11:55:06 AM
Better off with a 910H,9100,or other model that is far more stable.Being the Newest Toy does NOT make it the Best Toy.

Clayton
W4KVW
Are you guessing or measuring? I’ve just been checking my IC910HX. It is fitted with a genuine Icom CR-293 TCXO.

Measured using a Racal counter and GPS locked standard on 433 MHz. Over a 2 hour period from cold it drifted HF by 130 Hz. Over a 30 second transmission at 25W output it drifted typically between 7 and 9 Hz. To be within the +/- 0.5ppm spec, the frequency should remain within +/- 216 Hz (which it does).

I won’t deny that Icom should have locked the 9700 to a reference input, but don’t suggest the basic stability is worse than an IC910HX.

73 Dave


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: K6JH on May 24, 2019, 04:07:03 PM
Better off with a 910H,9100,or other model that is far more stable.Being the Newest Toy does NOT make it the Best Toy.

Clayton
W4KVW
Are you guessing or measuring? I’ve just been checking my IC910HX. It is fitted with a genuine Icom CR-293 TCXO.

Measured using a Racal counter and GPS locked standard on 433 MHz. Over a 2 hour period from cold it drifted HF by 130 Hz. Over a 30 second transmission at 25W output it drifted typically between 7 and 9 Hz. To be within the +/- 0.5ppm spec, the frequency should remain within +/- 216 Hz (which it does).

I won’t deny that Icom should have locked the 9700 to a reference input, but don’t suggest the basic stability is worse than an IC910HX.

73 Dave


VK7MO did testing which indicated the IC-9700 exhibited drift of 35 to 75 Hz during a WSPR transmission, large enough to prevent receive decodes on the other end.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1OSha3iKWcl5q2IiJjXcPIXC_fUd1DYAL (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1OSha3iKWcl5q2IiJjXcPIXC_fUd1DYAL)

The 7-9Hz during a transmission stability on your IC-910HX w/TCXO looks to be stable enough to work these modes.

So yes, the 9700 stability is worse than your 910, in that it's bad enough to prevent it's use for JT modes.  The 0.5ppm spec doesn't tell the whole story.

If one's usage plans don't include those modes then the 9700 will likely be fine sticking to FM, and perhaps a little annoying but functional for voice SSB or CW.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: AA2UK on May 25, 2019, 07:45:27 AM
There are variables to the frequency stability. I've been using my 9700 on 2 meter FT8 and MSK144. My 9700 drives a W6PQL BLF188XR SSPA. It only requires 3 watts of drive for 1200 watts output. My fan has yet to turn on. The freq is stable enough for me to work FT8 and MSK144. There are much tighter specs for running WSPR & JT65 than the popular WSJTX modes (FT8 & MSK144) I'm using. So the caveat might be using the rig stand alone at 100 watts (the fan will come on at this power level, causing excessive drift for running WSJTX slow modes. Using it as a low drive transceiver and running WSJTX fast modes seem fine to me.
Bill AA2UK


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: VE3WGO on May 25, 2019, 08:15:10 AM
Has it been determined by anyone yet, whether the IC-9700's drift is due to TCXO thermal cycling, or a voltage regulation problem?  (or even some combination of these)

Potential fixes for either of these causes could be very different from each other.

73, Ed


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: AA2UK on May 25, 2019, 08:42:10 AM
Has it been determined by anyone yet, whether the IC-9700's drift is due to TCXO thermal cycling, or a voltage regulation problem?  (or even some combination of these)

Potential fixes for either of these causes could be very different from each other.

73, Ed
I asked the same Q earlier. But I'm not opening mine at this point.
Bill AA2UK


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: N4UE on June 05, 2019, 03:21:59 PM
Hi. Belonging to the 9700.io Group, I have seen that Icom Europe has made a firmware change to eliminate the 'drift' issue.
However, we'll have to wait for Icom Japan to make it official.
I LOVE my 9700 and since I don't do EME or FT8, my radio has performed orders of magnitude over my 271A (with optional Mutek preamp).
Lots of guys on the 9700.io Group have reported making MANY FT8 contacts on 70 CM with NO problems.

So all the 9700 haters should move to a different radio, they can't afford. ha ha

ron
N4UE


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: WB8LBZ on June 05, 2019, 09:38:05 PM
Something else that is broke, how about all of the software titles that don't support the 9700?
N3FJP - Nope
WSJT - Nope
FLDIGI - Nope
JS8CALL - Nope

The 9700 is a great rag chew rig. Some of us would like to do more.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX
SN:12XX


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: AA2UK on June 06, 2019, 06:21:31 AM
The 9700 will be fully WSJTX supported in the next mid-July general release v2.1.0 I got this from Joe Taylor himself. In the mean time you can run WSJTX using 2.0.1rc5 not 2.0.1.
Bill AA2UK


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: AA2UK on June 06, 2019, 08:55:05 AM
Actually if you want to marry up WSJTX with the IC-9700 v2.1.0rc7 has just become available. It can be found here.
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html
Bill, AA2UK


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: WB8LBZ on June 06, 2019, 03:53:13 PM
Thanks Bill. I have downloaded it and will be testing.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: VE6MB on June 06, 2019, 07:15:18 PM
The much anticipated firmware release 1.10 was issued.....

Valentino, VE6MB

Firmware V1.10 for the IC-9700 was released today (7 June 2019 in Japan).

http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/firm/IC-9700/1_10/

Release Notes:

Changes from Version 1.06

    "Sync to REF IN" function is added for the reference frequency adjustment.
    "UDP Hole Punch" function is added to the DV Gateway function.
    "Home CH Beep" function is added.
    An indication showing Shifted Digital Twin PBT is added in the filter icon.
    SCAN key action is changed.
    A file format to save the settings readable with older version firmware is added.
    The CI-V commands 25 and 26 work correctly.


In addition< the CS-9700 software has been updated.

http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/firm/IC-9700/CS-9700_1_10/

Release Notes:

Changes from Version 1.01

    The setting items below are added to support IC-9700 firmware version 1.10.
        "Home CH" (Band Setting, DR Mode Setting).
        "Home CH Beep" (Common Setting > Beep).
        "Sync to REF IN" (Common Setting > REF Adjust).
        "UDP Hole Punch" (DV Gateway > Internal Gateway Set).



Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: WB8LBZ on June 06, 2019, 08:27:28 PM
Thanks for the links Valentino, both upgrades went well.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: G4AON on June 07, 2019, 03:03:42 AM
Does the “sync to ref in” now mean it will lock to an external rubidium or GPS 10 MHz standard to operate in the same way that test equipment does? ie no more drift...

73 Dave


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: VE6MB on June 07, 2019, 06:04:18 AM
It would appear so. I am using a Leo Bodnar GPSDO tied to the IC-9700 and can see (from a cold start) constant ongoing adjustment the LO REF setting......after the radio has been on a while it settles down and there is very little adjustment change over time.

 I am reading discussion on the IC-9700 email list as people are trying out this firmware release. Early indication is that there is a marked improvement in the whole drift concern; but ongoing formal testing is being done to quantify it; particularly on 23cm (1.2Ghz).

Valentino, VE6MB


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: VE6MB on June 07, 2019, 07:08:51 AM
Actually if you want to marry up WSJTX with the IC-9700 v2.1.0rc7 has just become available. It can be found here.
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html
Bill, AA2UK

I wasn't aware that WSJT-X had been updated for the IC-9700.......however, I've been successfully using it prior to this by changing the CI-V interface address in the IC-9700, to that of the IC-7300.....effectively making the software think it's talking to the IC-7300......it works perfectly. Then, I merely removed all band info and references to HF bands leaving 2m, 70cm, 1.2Ghz as available band options.

Valentino, VE6MB


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: K3GM on June 10, 2019, 05:43:41 PM
Does the “sync to ref in” now mean it will lock to an external rubidium or GPS 10 MHz standard to operate in the same way that test equipment does? ie no more drift...

73 Dave


My understanding is that it's not phase locked, but more of a constant "compare and correct".  In talking to my friend though, he suggested this seemingly inferior method of frequency stability might be a good thing because if the 10 MHz reference has phase noise on it and an otherwise clean oscillator is phase locked to it, the phase noise will be imposed on the clean oscillator at least within the bandwidth of the PLL.


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: KD7RDZI2 on June 26, 2019, 11:42:49 AM
So all the 9700 haters should move to a different radio, they can't afford. ha ha

ron
N4UE

Enjoy https://rsgb.org/main/blog/news/gb2rs/headlines/2019/06/14/iaru-addresses-2m-23cm-threats/
ha ha


Title: RE: Icom 9700
Post by: AA2UK on July 02, 2019, 09:19:16 AM
So all the 9700 haters should move to a different radio, they can't afford. ha ha

ron
N4UE

Enjoy https://rsgb.org/main/blog/news/gb2rs/headlines/2019/06/14/iaru-addresses-2m-23cm-threats/
ha ha
This is really funny information.... What does it have to do with the ICOM IC-9700 performance?
Bill AA2UK