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eHam Forums => Hamfests => Topic started by: KX4QP on February 14, 2019, 03:36:30 PM



Title: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KX4QP on February 14, 2019, 03:36:30 PM
I just read through this old thread (https://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,121683.0.html), concerning paying with cash at a Hamfest.

Everyone keeps telling me to get a modern radio, not the boat anchors that actually interest me.  Are these seriously the same people who discussed payment for a page and a half and never once mentioned PayPal?  They have apps for both Android and iOS (meaning you can carry your PayPal wallet with you), and can be funded from PayPal balance, a checking account or a credit card -- and even if you don't maintain a PayPal account, you can download the app on the spot and make a credit card funded payment to a seller who isn't set up to take credit cards.

This is not news, folks.  I've been using PayPal on a routine basis for more than a decade.  It's as secure as you can make your password (correcthorsebatterystaple -- google it), the funds can be verified by the seller literally as fast as you can tell them "You've got money," and the fee to the seller is very minor (a couple percent) and can be automatically included in the amount PayPal charges your card or account.  And in the unlikely case you get home and find out that Hallicrafters S-38 has all the correct dials and connectors, but is actually full of rocks and sticks instead of tubes and capacitors and coils and resistors, you can file a dispute against the seller at the PayPal site.

If you sell used radio gear, you owe it to yourself to set up and verify a PayPal account before your next Hamfest.  Accept a bunch of cash and you make yourself a target.  Accept the same amount by PayPal, and you can walk lightly on your way home (and not just because you sold me one of your boat anchors).


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: SOFAR on February 14, 2019, 05:00:46 PM
Good luck with that.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: N9LCD on February 14, 2019, 06:48:37 PM
If you THINK CREATIVELY, you can carry more cash than most hams would take to a year's worth of fests.

Don't carry a bulging wallet full of 20's.  Carry 50's & 100's.

Don't carry your wallet in your hip pocket.  That's the first place pickpockets ,look!

Don't keep feeling your hip pocket to make sure your wallet's till there.  You're telegraphing iots location and contents.

As a minimum consider a trucker's/biker's wallet on a chain.

N9LCD   


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: W9FIB on February 15, 2019, 03:18:24 AM
Cash is king.

Show me the money.

Or someone else will.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KE4OH on February 15, 2019, 06:25:11 AM
Since I can still run faster than a mobility scooter, I'm certain that I'm in no danger of losing my cash at a hamfest. I can easily catch the perpetrator and reclaim my money.  :D


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: N0YXB on February 15, 2019, 08:41:38 AM
Since I can still run faster than a mobility scooter, I'm certain that I'm in no danger of losing my cash at a hamfest. I can easily catch the perpetrator and reclaim my money.  :D

Now that's funny!   :D


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: K3GM on February 15, 2019, 09:20:46 AM
There was this one time ..... at Dayton..... where I got rolled for all my cash while waiting in line for a bratwurst.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: W3UC on February 15, 2019, 05:34:46 PM
Some of us carry real cash and even dare use our real callsigns on eHam ....  ::)


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: W9FIB on February 16, 2019, 04:00:13 AM
Since I can still run faster than a mobility scooter, I'm certain that I'm in no danger of losing my cash at a hamfest. I can easily catch the perpetrator and reclaim my money.  :D

I put a turbo on mine...it's really fast now. Care to race?  :D


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KX4QP on February 16, 2019, 04:16:38 AM
Some of us carry real cash and even dare use our real callsigns on eHam ....  ::)

I surely will use my real callsign, when I have one.  Carrying hundreds of dollars cash in a crowd of strangers makes me nervous.  I have the same problem at gun shows.

I'm not worried about being able to run down a mobility scooter -- I still get around okay.  I'm worried about the usual pickpocket issue, not knowing my wallet's gone until I try to pull it out to pay for something (even if it's only a bratwurst).


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: SOFAR on February 16, 2019, 04:39:04 AM
I never understood the logic in keeping money in a wallet.
If I carry a large amount of cash, its in an envelope, or wrapped with a rubber band, in my front pocket.

Carry $30 in small bills for coffee snacks etc., so the bankroll is not seen.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KX4QP on February 16, 2019, 08:32:46 AM
I never understood the logic in keeping money in a wallet.
If I carry a large amount of cash, its in an envelope, or wrapped with a rubber band, in my front pocket.

Carry $30 in small bills for coffee snacks etc., so the bankroll is not seen.

Oh, I completely agree, in that that's the most secure way to carry cash.  I just have trouble understanding why people who put a whole PC worth of computer into a radio and carry another one in their phone still feel cash is the best option.  AND force that on others -- if I'm carrying all my boat anchor money in cash, I don't have it in my checking to fund a PayPal payment; so as long as most sellers only take cash, they're all going to get nothing else.

It's a chicken and egg problem.  PayPal isn't a viable option until most sellers accept it, and sellers won't accept it when few if any buyers can use it because no sellers accept it.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: N9LCD on February 16, 2019, 12:03:59 PM
SOFAR:

I wear "tactical" -- a/k/a cargo -- pants.  The leg pockets above the knees have industrial-grade velcro closures are an ideal carrying place.

If you're trying to grab my "stash", you're exposing the back of your neck to edge of my hand.  And that chop will be pretty painful!


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KB5UZB on February 16, 2019, 01:16:35 PM
There is also a profit motive involved. Paypal/Venmo/Square all have fees involved with certain parts of them. Generally somewhere around 3% plus or minus. If you are buying a $500 radio, that's $15. The seller pays that. So, a seller that only takes cash can have lower, more competitive prices and potentially make more money.

Then there's the shadier tax avoidance side. There's no tracking the cash - so sales tax and income tax can be cheated on. Yet another "savings."


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: N0YXB on February 16, 2019, 06:46:05 PM
If you're trying to grab my "stash", you're exposing the back of your neck to edge of my hand.  And that chop will be pretty painful!

Yes! I like the way you think.  :)


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: W9PMZ on February 17, 2019, 05:25:01 PM
"where I got rolled for all my cash while waiting in line for a bratwurst."
What?  The cost of the bratwurst?

73,

Carl - W9PMZ


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: WA9AFM on February 23, 2019, 06:20:52 AM
SOFAR:

I wear "tactical" -- a/k/a cargo -- pants.  The leg pockets above the knees have industrial-grade velcro closures are an ideal carrying place.

If you're trying to grab my "stash", you're exposing the back of your neck to edge of my hand.  And that chop will be pretty painful!

Same here.  I like to wear the '511' tac pants; very practical for a hamfest and comfortable, too.  I spread the cash around in several pockets plus the back pockets are deep and have Velcro closures to deter 'sticky' fingers.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KU2US on February 27, 2019, 10:01:07 AM
If I go to a ham fest or gun show I will pay cash, BUT, any online purchases it is PayPal all the way. I am not exposing my CC# to anyone. Paypal has it on file. Yes the seller pays a fee, but don't you think they know that? It is built into the price. As far as I am concerned, if the seller does not accept Paypal, I will not buy on line. Heck! Even Walmart on line has Paypal.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KA0SBL on February 27, 2019, 03:00:14 PM
There is also a profit motive involved. Paypal/Venmo/Square all have fees involved with certain parts of them. Generally somewhere around 3% plus or minus. If you are buying a $500 radio, that's $15. The seller pays that. So, a seller that only takes cash can have lower, more competitive prices and potentially make more money.

Then there's the shadier tax avoidance side. There's no tracking the cash - so sales tax and income tax can be cheated on. Yet another "savings."


Not only that but you have no seller protection in a face to face transaction. Someone could open a claim and say Item not received. There's potential for unauthorized use of a hacked account as well.

Cash is King in-person and paypal online where there's proof of delivery.

-K


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: WI8P on February 28, 2019, 01:39:07 AM
There is also a profit motive involved. Paypal/Venmo/Square all have fees involved with certain parts of them. Generally somewhere around 3% plus or minus. If you are buying a $500 radio, that's $15. The seller pays that. So, a seller that only takes cash can have lower, more competitive prices and potentially make more money.

Then there's the shadier tax avoidance side. There's no tracking the cash - so sales tax and income tax can be cheated on. Yet another "savings."


Not only that but you have no seller protection in a face to face transaction. Someone could open a claim and say Item not received. There's potential for unauthorized use of a hacked account as well.

Cash is King in-person and paypal online where there's proof of delivery.

-K

Actually, PayPal can be king in person as well, provided you and the seller both have cell phones.  There are other forms of e-payments that work as well, but almost everyone has PayPal.  You can do the transaction while standing there, and they can confirm a minute or less later.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: W9FIB on February 28, 2019, 12:36:42 PM
Cash is still king at a swapfest. Plus I can spend my cash earnings from my sales with those who don't mess with Paypal or CCs at the swapfest.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: AA4PB on February 28, 2019, 12:49:26 PM
" I am not exposing my CC# to anyone. Paypal has it on file."

Tell that to my Granddaughter. She had Paypal linked to her checking account and the checking account was linked to her credit card for overdraft protection. Somebody hacked her Paypal account and cleaned out her checking account and maxed out her credit card. Her bank straightened it out and got her money back, but she had to go a couple of weeks without access to her accounts.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: SOFAR on February 28, 2019, 02:01:04 PM
Cash is still king at a swapfest. Plus I can spend my cash earnings from my sales with those who don't mess with Paypal or CCs at the swapfest.

Swapfest items are sold 'as is', All sales final.
Cash payment is final.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KX4QP on February 28, 2019, 07:07:09 PM
" I am not exposing my CC# to anyone. Paypal has it on file."

Tell that to my Granddaughter. She had Paypal linked to her checking account and the checking account was linked to her credit card for overdraft protection. Somebody hacked her Paypal account and cleaned out her checking account and maxed out her credit card. Her bank straightened it out and got her money back, but she had to go a couple of weeks without access to her accounts.


The exact same thing happens every day without PayPal being involved in any way.  Someone gets your card number (skimmer at the ATM or gas pump, maybe, or these days, a photo of the card taken with a cell phone while you're swiping), cleans you out.  if they're subtle about it, you might not know there's a problem until the CC bill arrives, but much more likely they'll blow it up as soon as they confirm it works.

Then again, if a pickpocket manages to empty those cargo pockets in your "steal from me" pants, and makes off with ten portraits of Ben Franklin, police will just ask you "Why were you carrying so much cash around in a crowd?"  After which, you'll never see a dime of that money again.  At least if your PayPal gets hacked, or your CC skimmed, you can get the money back after some hassle.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: NO2A on March 09, 2019, 10:10:50 PM
Cash is still king at a swapfest. Plus I can spend my cash earnings from my sales with those who don't mess with Paypal or CCs at the swapfest.

I agree. And in the event the internet is down cash still works unless they have a problem with that. If you want to steal my wallet from my front pocket good luck.  Under my dead body...


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: W5HEX on March 13, 2019, 04:58:34 AM
As a seller I would never accept PayPal in person. How do you prove to PayPal that the item WAS delivered? All a buying has to do is file a PayPal claim and say the item was never received. How do you prove it was? The buyer will be getting their money back and the seller will lose. Been there....never again. Cash only.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: AE5GT on March 15, 2019, 07:41:45 AM
As a seller I would never accept PayPal in person. How do you prove to PayPal that the item WAS delivered? All a buying has to do is file a PayPal claim and say the item was never received. How do you prove it was? The buyer will be getting their money back and the seller will lose. Been there....never again. Cash only.

Home Depot accepts it. All you have to do is get them to sign a receipt , that shows they were there. 


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KX4QP on March 15, 2019, 03:32:46 PM
As a seller I would never accept PayPal in person. How do you prove to PayPal that the item WAS delivered? All a buying has to do is file a PayPal claim and say the item was never received. How do you prove it was? The buyer will be getting their money back and the seller will lose. Been there....never again. Cash only.

Home Depot accepts it. All you have to do is get them to sign a receipt , that shows they were there. 

In defense of W5HEX (never mind it's on the opposite side from my original post), Home Depot routinely takes large losses from shoplifting, spoilage, and card chargebacks; they probably wouldn't even notice if a few PayPal users disputed a charge.  OTOH, having a signed receipt (or even better a short video of the buyer acknowledging receipt) would go a long way to avoid the "automatically believe the buyer" attitude sometimes seen with online shopping and payment systems.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: W9FIB on March 15, 2019, 04:20:53 PM
As a seller I would never accept PayPal in person. How do you prove to PayPal that the item WAS delivered? All a buying has to do is file a PayPal claim and say the item was never received. How do you prove it was? The buyer will be getting their money back and the seller will lose. Been there....never again. Cash only.

Home Depot accepts it. All you have to do is get them to sign a receipt , that shows they were there. 

In defense of W5HEX (never mind it's on the opposite side from my original post), Home Depot routinely takes large losses from shoplifting, spoilage, and card chargebacks; they probably wouldn't even notice if a few PayPal users disputed a charge.  OTOH, having a signed receipt (or even better a short video of the buyer acknowledging receipt) would go a long way to avoid the "automatically believe the buyer" attitude sometimes seen with online shopping and payment systems.

So much work when just giving/getting cash is easier, undisputed, and final.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KE0ZU on March 16, 2019, 09:23:00 PM
Quote
...I have the same problem at gun shows....
Now THAT makes absolutely no sense at all.   

you're in a crowd of a thousand people, most of whom are packing, and you think you're going to get robbed? 

You need to get back under your rock and stay there.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KX4QP on March 17, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
you're in a crowd of a thousand people, most of whom are packing, and you think you're going to get robbed? 

Sounds like a very fruitful field for a master pickpocket who has a place to drop his takings. Might pick up a Glock or Beretta, too...


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: SOFAR on March 17, 2019, 10:53:28 AM
you're in a crowd of a thousand people, most of whom are packing, and you think you're going to get robbed?  

Sounds like a very fruitful field for a master pickpocket who has a place to drop his takings. Might pick up a Glock or Beretta, too...

People that carry, have a heightened sense of situational awareness.

If you ever carried, you would be aware of this. That said...

Seems to be scant interest in using/accepting Paypal at a swap meet. If I was approached by someone expounding the many benefits of accepting Paypal. I would politely ask the individual to move aside, make room for cash-paying customers.

To reiterate, Good luck with that.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KX4QP on March 17, 2019, 04:52:11 PM
People that carry, have a heightened sense of situational awareness.

If you ever carried, you would be aware of this.

I carried for more than fifteen years when I lived in Seattle.  Haven't cared to jump through the hoops again since moving to North Carolina.

I know what you're talking about, but I doubt anyone who is not himself either a pickpocket or a stage magician in that line (and a good one) could detect a highly competent pickpocket at work.  Unless you're in that line, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that specific subject.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: ND6M on March 23, 2019, 05:56:35 AM
As a seller I would never accept PayPal in person. How do you prove to PayPal that the item WAS delivered? All a buying has to do is file a PayPal claim and say the item was never received. How do you prove it was? The buyer will be getting their money back and the seller will lose. Been there....never again. Cash only.

Home Depot accepts it. All you have to do is get them to sign a receipt , that shows they were there. 
The next time you are in Home Depot, take a close look around, even a novice can spot some of the cameras.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: N0YXB on March 24, 2019, 08:53:57 AM
...but I doubt anyone who is not himself either a pickpocket or a stage magician in that line (and a good one) could detect a highly competent pickpocket at work. 

Totally agree. There are some talented thieves out there.

And there's this.

https://www.hickoryrecord.com/news/man-robbed-twice-at-gun-show/article_c4326099-c685-555d-9283-237656526e93.html (https://www.hickoryrecord.com/news/man-robbed-twice-at-gun-show/article_c4326099-c685-555d-9283-237656526e93.html)


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: W9FIB on March 25, 2019, 01:44:34 AM
IMHO if I need to carry a weapon to a HR swapfest, I will no longer attend it. Sometimes common sense has to be used. But then again I will not let the fear of what could slightly possibly happen dictate my actions. Each person needs to find that balance between cowering in the corner and brazenly flashing cash in public.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: WI8P on March 25, 2019, 08:00:40 AM
IMHO if I need to carry a weapon to a HR swapfest, I will no longer attend it. Sometimes common sense has to be used. But then again I will not let the fear of what could slightly possibly happen dictate my actions. Each person needs to find that balance between cowering in the corner and brazenly flashing cash in public.

And yet some people have been killed while attending a church, a synagogue or a masque. Crime or danger can find you anywhere.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KB5UZB on March 25, 2019, 09:50:50 PM
you're in a crowd of a thousand people, most of whom are packing, and you think you're going to get robbed?  

Sounds like a very fruitful field for a master pickpocket who has a place to drop his takings. Might pick up a Glock or Beretta, too...

People that carry, have a heightened sense of situational awareness.

If you ever carried, you would be aware of this. That said...

Seems to be scant interest in using/accepting Paypal at a swap meet. If I was approached by someone expounding the many benefits of accepting Paypal. I would politely ask the individual to move aside, make room for cash-paying customers.

To reiterate, Good luck with that.

Around these parts (Texas) any weapon you carry into a gun show has to be unloaded. They check at the gate. Seems strange to me, but there ya go.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: KX4QP on March 26, 2019, 02:19:54 AM
Around these parts (Texas) any weapon you carry into a gun show has to be unloaded. They check at the gate. Seems strange to me, but there ya go.

Same here (NC).  Then again, go check YouTube, there are a couple videos from IraqVeteran8888 showing the half-gallon or gallon jar filled with rounds taken out of "unloaded" guns brought into a pawn shop, to sell.  I'd be very surprised if a bunch of folks with carry permits at any given show hadn't looked at that sign and said "Oh, I remember, those signs have no legal standing" and just kept walking.



Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: K3LI on March 28, 2019, 02:59:51 PM
Yep, you sure can use paypal aps.  And you can also get screwed out of your money big time.  It is very very easy to do.  Its the old Paypal scam, works everytime.


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: AH7I on May 23, 2019, 06:51:21 PM
I used to carry $20 k cash when I had a surplus business.
$600 is my max carry for a hamfest and it's gonna have to be something pretty special to get me to spend it all.
The guys I bought from,  usually scrap dealers, were seldom in good neighborhoods and preferred cash.
Never had a lick of trouble, nor did I anticipate any.
Not strangers at the hamfest. Brother hams!


Title: RE: Seriously, carrying hundreds in cash in a crowd of strangers at Hamfest?
Post by: AH7I on May 23, 2019, 07:03:52 PM
  And in the unlikely case you get home and find out that Hallicrafters S-38 has all the correct dials and connectors, but is actually full of rocks and sticks instead of tubes and capacitors and coils and resistors, you can file a dispute against the seller at the PayPal site.

It does not work that way. Most hamfests have a table where you can test stuff from the boneyard. That said, expecting an S-38 from the boneyard to work... unless you've paid a lot to a guy who is known to restore them well... or you are buying it from someone you know well... It's not going to be 100%. So, you look to make sure it's all there, you smell it to see if the transformer is bad, you buy it for $25 plus or minus $20 or so, and you are happy that it's all there and the transformer is not bad. Otherwise, you've got no business buying an S-38 from the boneyard. There is a reason it's called a "boneyard". Do your homework, know who you are buying from, or use your knowledge and skill to steal a deal from the boneyard.