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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: KG9ZTX on March 12, 2019, 02:36:33 AM



Title: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KG9ZTX on March 12, 2019, 02:36:33 AM
Does anyone get the feeling that certain part of ham radio is slowly dieing? Being killed off by other alternative with cellphones iPads and internet?

I have talked with a few from around the world on my ham radio in  various different alternatives.

I would say 90% of those I have talked with have been older then me. I am 55. Of those 90% I would most are over 75.

Even those 10% younger then me, were all at least 40 - 55.

I know only 8 hams younger then 40, and their only reason they are hams, is cause they are in groups that hunt, or 4x4 off road, and they have 2m/70cm radios and the only time they are on their radio is when they are hunting or off roading.

I wonder what percentage of the many other tech licensees under 40 are the same or similar?

Now I have no problem with talking with someone older then me. They have the most to teach me, and usually have the best stories to tell as well. So no complaint here. I just worry about the direction our field is taking.

VOIP and combining that with repeaters and nodes is cool. But then again... why? Why not just get on our phones and use “virtual” “ham” radios. On the iPhone/iPad there are a dozen virtual voip “walkie-talkie” apps that one can use to talk to people anywhere in the world as long as they have internet. Give it another 50 years or even less, and the entire planet will no longer have cell phone coverage dead areas. Once that happens will ham radio really be even needed or used?

I use ham radio, mainly for being able to communicate when there isn’t internet and I want to be chatty! Lol

Am I totally in left field? I have my suspicions why this is the case if I am not in left field. But I accept the fact I could be. So Am I?


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W7ASA on March 12, 2019, 06:54:59 AM
Although I've met some people half my age on the air, I agree with your general assessment of hams peaking above a certain age is correct ... I know that I am certainly old, retired and glad for it :-) Then again, I was still in the workforce last year, and the younger people I worked with - which meant everyone else at the lab-  were all into things which rarely interested me at all, usually centered around shotgunning beer, their latest tech gadget or things they can drive around in.  I was probably the only person at the lab who kept notes in a paper notebook (it always boots, can't be digitally virused and has no security backdoors...) I've never seen anyone of them concerned that 'there aren't enough old people doing this.'. I think that same way about ham radio: those who see it as worth their time and effort will pursue it and those who don't , won't.

// They TRIED to instruct me in proper technique to 'shotgun' beer (PBR) , but I really demonstrated that I have no talent for it ;-)  I'm more into quality, not quantity. //

Considering the average age of a ham , especially on HF, there were more than a few common threads during the hey-day of ham, which motivated us to pursue it:

1. When I began into radio, long distance phone calls via a woman at a phone company switchboard were 'a thing'. Asking the operator to place a long distance phone call was the norm,

'Operator, I'd like to place a long distance phone call to Puckett, Rhode Island, Regency 3456, please.'  
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rrQnRPuExmE/VnBEVBF8bKI/AAAAAAAAKJM/tKvKdCG3Z68/s1600/Telephone%2BSwitchboard%2BOperators%2Bin%2Bthe%2BPast%2B%25281%2529.jpg)
... while we waited and paid by the minute.  "FREE" communication with friends out of town was a BIG draw for ham radio. Now, we have global communication (sight and sound ) in our shirt pocket, leaving little or no lure for ham radio as a means to talk with the world.

2. From the early 20th century through the early 1970's, "A Career in ELECTRONICS!" was the road to the future, and was pushed heavily in magazines, TV  (remember those?) & schools. Post 'Personal Computer', most of the focus shifted to programming and later to "data management" which exploded into ARPANET becoming the Internet. No, need or want for ham radio, when you can hop on the net and immediately talk to the world; instantly & basically free. The technical hunger is well fed for many via software development, instead of physical building.

3. Travel & Wilderness treks with home brew QRP rigs were my passion.  I was usually the conduit to get short notes to/from home for friends and crew. Now, anyone with a cellphone and legs to reach a ridgeline can usually hit a cell tower in most of the Rocky Mountains which previously were an RF wilderness.  International travel is entirely improved, now because of cellphones. HF is excellent and I love it, but a smarty-pants phone is extreeeeeemely lite and powerful - as long as there is an internet. Besides, updating friends now usually involves selfies, video & etc. several times per day on social media, not quick SITREP and location sent via HF.


Personally, I mourn the passing of the age of sail with navigation by sextant and lead-line, but then again, I love receiving packages by next-day-air from Amazon.  


73 de Ray  ..._ ._

Ps. It's also fun to see a hipster head turn when I read Morse code copied in my head during one of his video clips: "You know Morse code???"  Yep, old guys have a few things going for us ;-)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KB2CRK on March 12, 2019, 07:22:58 AM
Dying or not there is still a higher number of licenses out there than in the past. I think that in spite of the hobby is dying crowd that the hobby is growing. The more time passes the mor ething stay the same. Oh My gerd the sky is falling


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: AA4PB on March 12, 2019, 07:44:02 AM
I don't think ham radio was ever as full of young people as we sometimes think. In 1962 my high school had about 1200 students. To my knowledge there were only 2 hams, me and one other guy. We started a ham radio club but only had a maximum of about 10 students interested. We held a license class. Our teacher sponsor was the only one to get a novice license (which he let lapse in a year).
When I attended a local Detroit area club, as I recall I was normally the only one under 20 years old present.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K5LXP on March 12, 2019, 08:36:19 AM

The thing about old people is they're always making more.  When I got into the hobby as a teenager, the next youngest guy in my club was more than twice my age.  Fast forward a few decades, I'm an OF and am in good company.  It's an old man's hobby and it's only ever going to attract so many young folks.  When folks get more chronologically advanced, some percentage will be attracted to the hobby and so it goes.  So what's changing isn't the hobby, or the demographics.  Just your perspective of it.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
 


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KC6RWI on March 12, 2019, 09:45:23 AM
Younger or older, a few people have fascination of receiving or creating a radio signal that can go around the world. Part of the fun of sending that signal is that it is done by an individual who had the know how to assemble a station. On top of that you gain the ability to talk to other like minded persons, and you can do it even if the grid goes down. No network needed.

It would be interesting topic for the survey question to have the subject of age.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W1VT on March 12, 2019, 09:54:11 AM
I think the real surprise is that you can still find CW pilups on the Amateur bands, but good luck trying to find a shortwave program broadcast overseas towards North America!


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W0BKR on March 12, 2019, 10:38:14 AM
QSY!!!  Frequency is in use!!!


How many times do I tune across someone complaining about crowded band(s).....



Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W6BP on March 12, 2019, 11:03:08 AM
It's undeniable that amateur radio skews heavily to the upper end of the scale on age. But as a VE, I see a significant number of young people entering the hobby. In fact, two weeks ago I worked at a session for high school students. The real challenge is keeping them in the hobby once they get a license.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N0YXB on March 12, 2019, 11:08:25 AM
Ah, the perennial ham radio is dying thread. It would be interesting to see a historic trend of the the median age of hams. I suspect it would support the posts below.

The thing about old people is they're always making more.  When I got into the hobby as a teenager, the next youngest guy in my club was more than twice my age.  Fast forward a few decades, I'm an OF and am in good company.  It's an old man's hobby and it's only ever going to attract so many young folks.  When folks get more chronologically advanced, some percentage will be attracted to the hobby and so it goes.  So what's changing isn't the hobby, or the demographics.  Just your perspective of it.

I don't think ham radio was ever as full of young people as we sometimes think. In 1962 my high school had about 1200 students. To my knowledge there were only 2 hams, me and one other guy. We started a ham radio club but only had a maximum of about 10 students interested. We held a license class. Our teacher sponsor was the only one to get a novice license (which he let lapse in a year).
When I attended a local Detroit area club, as I recall I was normally the only one under 20 years old present.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KG9ZTX on March 12, 2019, 12:22:54 PM
Well We are all getting older that’s for sure. Lol


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W4AMP on March 12, 2019, 04:53:36 PM
When I started on ham radio, I was always the young one. Almost 30 years later I still am.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KC6RWI on March 13, 2019, 10:00:40 AM
Yes,   YXB that would be interesting to see which way the average age of hams is trending.
It seems that so many got the spark at an early age, it would also be interesting to hear from the people who started at later age.    Leonard Kc6rwi


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N4MU on March 13, 2019, 11:28:31 AM
Oh yes. The age old (pardon the pun) saga of old hams...
I agree about the internet being responsible for loss of interest. Too bad too. Now, I'm not knocking D-star, Fusion, etc., but when it's the only way to contact other hams (via your hot spot  and internet connection) there's something missing. It is however the instant gratification that seems to pervade every facet of life today. Why wait for WAS, DXCC when in a weekend you can "contact" everything with Q-5 readability? I laugh every time one op tells the other how clear his signal is! (You'll have to make your own certificate though, thank goodness)
Yes Zach, there are still CW pileups.. I get involved regularly but there are fewer and fewer licensees who can participate. Hey, maybe I'll have better odds as we go along...
Yes, I have decided to live and let live (digital modes) but they'll never know what they're missing by not giving up instant grats.

-"OF"  (in Florida no less)

Heard today:  "Sorry, no contacts today...propagation sucks!"
Heard tomorrow: Sorry, no contacts today...the internet connection is down!"

TRUISM (really): My internet went down JUST AS I was clicking on "Post"! I'm not lying...a real goocher! LOL


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K4EZD on March 13, 2019, 02:14:04 PM
The answer IMHO is yes, very slowly.  I am 75 and checking the current contest calendar I saw that the Virginia QSO party is this weekend and wanting more details I checked the link given https://www.qsl.net/sterling/VA_QSO_Party/2019_VQP/2019_VQP_Pre-Brief.pdf
Scrolling down to pages 22, 23, 24, and 25 show the club members for that region.  Not to judge or anything, but they look like my age group and typical of ham clubs I am familiar with.  I wish all of us a long life but it seems that when we go, ham radio slowly goes with us.   :( :(


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N4IAG on March 13, 2019, 02:31:10 PM
Is ham radio slowly dying?

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes, it is.

 :D


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KD4UPL on March 13, 2019, 03:19:17 PM
I was licensed at age 16. Back then it was really neat to be able to use the autopatch on the repeater to make phone calls when out camping. Now everybody has a phone.
I'm now 42. I'm just about always the youngest ham at a gathering. My wife got her license at age 32 so that she could communicate with me when I work at places with no cell phone coverage.
I was much more active in my 20's then I am now. Right now I have a wife and 3 young kids. Contesting is out of the question. "That's right honey, I'm going to sit here at this radio for the next 48 hours. Please keep the children silent. Have a nice weekend."  isn't going to cut it.
Really, most any home operating is difficult. At least 2 of my children are making noise at any one time. Any time I turn on the radio one of them will try to grab the knobs or the mic. So, most of my operating is mobile VHF/UHF. There are a good number of local hams on the repeaters that are 40 to 50 age range but not many any younger. Why, I don't know.
But, there is lots of activity. Is the hobby dying? I don't know. We have activity around here on DMR, 220, 2m, 70cm, Fusion, APRS, 6m, HF, and I don't know what all else. One local ham in his late 50's mostly just monitors one local 2m repeater. He's always complaining that there is no activity on it. I bet he thinks ham radio is dying.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KG9ZTX on March 13, 2019, 11:28:22 PM
Here’s actually my IMHO thoughts.

I am active in several hunting camping off road groups. While many in those groups refuse to get ham for various reasons and use GMRS and CB, many do have ham licenses. Also there all of them that do, except for 3-4 out of 50-60 that have ham licenses do anything more then just for our activity. Meaning the other 46-56 other hams only use ham for our group activities. Age range of the 3-4. All over 45. The age range of the rest, 20-35.

There are still a lot of us around over 45 so the the bands will still be crazy busy, so will the repeaters as well. Are there still youngsters even kids getting into the hobby still. Yes of course there is. Although personally at least here in the USA less youngersters are getting into it then prior to the internet.

I do believe the internet, cell phones chat rooms texting etc... has had a negative impact on ham radio.

YET....

For those people that know and worry about disasters, some known as “Preppers” ham radio will always be needed. Never met a preppier that didn’t have a ham radio license, GmRs license and a CB.

Same thing goes with those who are storm chasers, or for those who know they need alternative communications when we have bad weather. I used to be a Paramedic in my younger days. Have worked many a disaster, tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, bombings, where the “phone” grid goes down and cell phones are useless, and so is internet in the area. Thus communications were provided by ham radio users!

So will ham completely die. No I don’t think so. Even if we move to more satellite based communications, even satellites fail.

However, ham is dieing in other areas and in other forms. Morse is starting to become a lost art form. Less people now know Morse then 50 years ago.

As several here put it... the need of free communication when we had to pay for long distance, is no longer needed, the need for autopatch phones  and now we all have cells.

However... at least in the western USA and Canada, there are still vast areas that still have no cell coverage but have ham radio repeaters.

Crazy world we live in though....

Is it dieing though... yes.... will it die out completely? Not for another 50 years or more I don’t believe.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: NN4RH on March 14, 2019, 03:20:28 AM
I don't think ham radio was ever as full of young people as we sometimes think.

Agree. I think that's a myth. 

And many young people back in the day didn't stay with the hobby for very long anyway ... but some returned to it decades later when they have fewer other young-person distractions, and have more money to put into it.


Ham radio has been dying of various ailments for at least the past century ...


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KS2G on March 14, 2019, 06:03:04 AM
Is ham radio slowly dying?

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes, it is.

 :D

Except for the 30,000 new licenses issued by the FCC each year.

http://www.arrl.org/news/us-amateur-radio-population-grows-slightly-in-2018

 ;)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: AA4PB on March 14, 2019, 07:30:47 AM
When I went into the Navy in 1963 I saw evidence of very active base radio clubs well before my time. In Quonset Pt., RI I found a club ham station. I was told that I was the first person in several years that had ever accessed the key to get in. There was a BC610 and an old worn out Hallicrafters receiver and a working Yagi & rotor. There was a separate class room where it was obvious they used to hold ham radio classes. Student desks with keys attached, tape machine, and books still on the shelves. I brought in my SB34, hooked to the antenna and had a private ham shack on base.

Later I went to NAS Cecil Field in Jacksonville, Fl. I found the radio club station hadn't been accessed in years. The receiver was an old Hallicrafters that had seen so much use that the main tuning gear teeth were worn down to nubs. I hooked up my trusty SB34 and the station was back on the air again.

My point is that apparently 10-15 years before my time there were some young sailors who were really active in ham radio on those bases. The question is, what happened? Why were the stations abandoned? My guess is that the stations were established soon after WWII ended. Perhaps as military pay increased, many had the funds for other "off base" activities and lost interest in the ham radio clubs.



Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K0UA on March 14, 2019, 07:41:24 AM
I have been licensed for pretty close to the 50 year mark. While I have always had an interest in Amateur and held a license, that doesn't mean I was always very active. I have ran hot and cold thru that 50 or so years with stints of activity and lapses in activity.  I have been more active in the last two years than I have ever been.  My "semi" retirement has allowed me more free time to pursue it. I run two HF rigs at the same time now in the shack. I have done something I always wanted to try and that is mobile HF radio. It was always something I could not justify, but I am really enjoying it now. I was very interested in radio from about age 12, but I was 16 before I became licensed.  Yes, now I add to the "old pharts" total of licensee's but I am as radioactive now as I have ever been.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on March 14, 2019, 07:49:04 AM
"slowly dying"... ???

(http://www.arrl.org/images/view/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202018.JPG)
source: ARRL


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on March 14, 2019, 08:01:57 AM
disclaimers:

while the number of [USA] hams continues to grow, i am not sure what the trend is worldwide...

when i was 1st licensed as a young teen, it was looked at as quite an accomplishment that i earned the Advanced class license.  The majority of hams taking the tests at the FCC office were pretty old, and the normally stern-sounding & solemn-faced FCC office employee even appeared to convey a touch of surprise & humanity when he informed me that I had passed -- which seemed to hinge on the fact that i was so comparatively young. The hams I encountered on air (CW or phone) seemed on average as old then as they do today.  it was rare that i came across a ham my age.   

that said, the overall population seems to be slightly aging (greater longevity), so it would only go to reason that hams may be slightly aging too...

i think it is fair to say though that the general perception of the hobby today is that it is a bit antiquated, whereas in the 1970's it was still viewed as technologically advanced.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N4IAG on March 14, 2019, 08:23:42 AM
Is ham radio slowly dying?

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes, it is.

 :D

Except for the 30,000 new licenses issued by the FCC each year.

http://www.arrl.org/news/us-amateur-radio-population-grows-slightly-in-2018

 ;)

Yeah, but how many of these new hams even own a radio, have an HF antenna or will ever have a single QSO? The ARRL promotes getting a license for EMCOMM and saving the world. When an active ham dies do you really think he will be replaced by one of these preppers on the air? In that context, ham radio is slowly dying, literally.

Ham radio will never die completely, just as sailing and horseback riding will never die, but there will less interest and activity as time goes by.  IMHO


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KB4QAA on March 14, 2019, 11:10:27 AM
Is there less interest among young people in radio, and HF radio in particular?  Yes.

Is the US ham population aging?  Among HF'ers, yes.

Is ham radio dying?  No.  As long as there are two hams, it will be alive. As long as there are three hams, there will be contests.

Neither the 'success' nor the quality of ham radio is measured by how many licensees there are.

The hobby was great in the 1930's when there were 25,000 licensed US hams.  If the number declines again to 25k, it will still be a great hobby and 'alive".  

Compare how many people ride horses, or even better drive horse pulled buggies the number in 1915.  Millions fewer riders, but still a nice hobby and not 'dead".


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9LCD on March 14, 2019, 12:54:26 PM
I graduated high school '65.  There were about 432 guys in the Class of '65 and 2,250 in the school.

I was active in the Radio Club in my Junior & Senior years.  There were about 10 - 12 members out of a student population of 2,250.  About 5 or 6 club members were licensed hams.

Code & licensing class were every Friday, 90 minutes to 2 hours.  Nobody "got" licensed.

When I was licensed -- Tech -- in '92, I spent a couple of months tracking "Radio Bug" -- the former club president.

"Tom, I finally passed the licensing exam.  See you on 2 meters one night."

"Jer, I BURNED OUT on Ham radio long ago.  I haven't been licensed for about 15 - 20 years now!"

Dying Out?  Maybe.

Burning out?  Yeah!  A ham gets to the point where he or she gets tired of pouring money down a hole and getting nowhere.  Then, IT'S QUITS!

Count me among the "BURNT OUT".  I now find two hours a week of serious weightlifting a heck of a lot more satisfying & relaxing than two hours on the air.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KS2G on March 14, 2019, 01:17:05 PM
Is ham radio slowly dying?

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes, it is.

 :D

Except for the 30,000 new licenses issued by the FCC each year.

http://www.arrl.org/news/us-amateur-radio-population-grows-slightly-in-2018

 ;)

Yeah, but how many of these new hams even own a radio, have an HF antenna or will ever have a single QSO? The ARRL promotes getting a license for EMCOMM...


I find it interesting that any time this subject comes up the Nay Sayers always point to HF.

News Flash! Interest/involvement in HF isn't a measure of the "health" of Amateur Radio.

Yes, many (most?) new licensees these days come to Amateur Radio because of their interest in using it for emergency and public service communications and they have little/no interest in HF -- and therefore little/no interest in upgrading to General of Extra. GET OVER IT!

Amateur Radio is CHANGING, not dying.  ;)



Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N4IAG on March 14, 2019, 04:37:49 PM
Is ham radio slowly dying?

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes, it is.

 :D

Except for the 30,000 new licenses issued by the FCC each year.

http://www.arrl.org/news/us-amateur-radio-population-grows-slightly-in-2018

 ;)

Yeah, but how many of these new hams even own a radio, have an HF antenna or will ever have a single QSO? The ARRL promotes getting a license for EMCOMM...


I find it interesting that any time this subject comes up the Nay Sayers always point to HF.

News Flash! Interest/involvement in HF isn't a measure of the "health" of Amateur Radio.

Yes, many (most?) new licensees these days come to Amateur Radio because of their interest in using it for emergency and public service communications and they have little/no interest in HF -- and therefore little/no interest in upgrading to General of Extra. GET OVER IT!

Amateur Radio is CHANGING, not dying.  ;)



Really? You admit that the majority of new hams won’t upgrade, probably won’t even operate, and their primary interest is waiting for doomsday or assisting trained personnel with their walkie-talkies and blinking lights. And you think that’s healthy for the hobby?

You say vhf/uhf is the future, not HF. Good. Maybe all the dead repeaters will now spring to life.

But you’re right, ham radio is changing.  ;)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W7ASA on March 14, 2019, 05:01:38 PM
So many quips targeting self made  'strawman' assumptions, yet so few reasoned debates of facts and well reasoned thoughts.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N0YXB on March 14, 2019, 06:52:21 PM

Amateur Radio is CHANGING, not dying.  ;)


Exactly!   +1


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on March 15, 2019, 09:23:00 AM
Ham Radio is not what’s slowly dying. Hams are slowly dying, just like every other living thing.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: NE1U on March 15, 2019, 03:24:46 PM
A thread on zed is all about hate on millenials. I have to admit that I have not bothered to open that thread.

I have noticed that European and Eastern Europeans on cqham.ru (translaters are my friend) seem younger and more interested in basic electronics & advanced electronics. Then there are the HSCW (high speed CW) groups found on youtube. Notable are yls blazing away (>>40wpm) on various keys.

It is my ambition to get to 40 wpm with a sideswiper and getting there. When asked my my local buds, "who are you going to talk to at that speed?" I feel amost like a pedophile when I mention the yls in Eastern Europe. LOL

OFs are dominant in the US. Sport for them is Radio Sport and appears to me to their normal interest in operation. For reasons that I cannot explain, I have never been interested in any radio contest. As a kid I used to gget up 3 to 4 AM & work JA land from 9 land for good QSOs for a half hour or more. Get back in bed for a very sound nap & be off to school.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N0YXB on March 15, 2019, 03:52:22 PM
A thread on zed is all about hate on millenials. 

That's just sad.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1QQQ on March 15, 2019, 04:56:58 PM
Try this.


Post something negative about the Tech crowd and they will be screaming for 100's of years.


Their interests mostly do not match mine so what can I think ? I have little interest in chit-chat on repeaters (nothing about radio) and nothing else. (I mean nothing else) Ya know you do have GMRS.


I get some funny feeling some will some day get tired of feeding money to the corporations to talk/communicate with someone. Who knows.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KB4MNG on March 16, 2019, 04:58:49 AM
Very interesting to see where ham will be in say 15 years. Change is coming and I think we are at a cross roads. I got my ticket at 14 in 1984 and mainly hf oriented. For the most part, even today, Im the young guy.

i get on Cw which I love during the day, I work shift work. Most hams are 70 plus but during the day younger working people are at work.

On hf cw, I think as we move forward, you will definitely see a reduction of activity.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on March 16, 2019, 08:26:52 AM
Very interesting to see where ham will be in say 15 years. Change is coming and I think we are at a cross roads. I got my ticket at 14 in 1984 and mainly hf oriented. For the most part, even today, Im the young guy.

i get on Cw which I love during the day, I work shift work. Most hams are 70 plus but during the day younger working people are at work.

On hf cw, I think as we move forward, you will definitely see a reduction of activity.

Yes it is way past time to move forward. Morse code has been irrelevant and relegated to a quaint niche for Decades!  Morse code -- which has signaled disasters at sea since the sinking of the Titanic -- is slipping silently into the sea. As of February 1999, passenger and cargo ships of 300 gross tons or more will no longer use Morse code for SOS calls.

The beginning of the end came in 1988, when an international treaty on safety and rescue at sea was amended to phase out Morse worldwide, beginning in 1992, in favor of the satellite communications setup dubbed the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System.

US civilian ships dropped Morse for distress calls in 1995.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KG9ZTX on March 16, 2019, 08:54:05 AM
Is ham radio slowly dying?

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes, it is.

 :D

There are also other hobbies where wireless communications are needed in areas of no cell service, outdoor activities, such as hunting, hiking, camping, off roading etc...

Except for the 30,000 new licenses issued by the FCC each year.

http://www.arrl.org/news/us-amateur-radio-population-grows-slightly-in-2018

 ;)

Yeah, but how many of these new hams even own a radio, have an HF antenna or will ever have a single QSO? The ARRL promotes getting a license for EMCOMM...


I find it interesting that any time this subject comes up the Nay Sayers always point to HF.

News Flash! Interest/involvement in HF isn't a measure of the "health" of Amateur Radio.

Yes, many (most?) new licensees these days come to Amateur Radio because of their interest in using it for emergency and public service communications and they have little/no interest in HF -- and therefore little/no interest in upgrading to General of Extra. GET OVER IT!

Amateur Radio is CHANGING, not dying.  ;)



Really? You admit that the majority of new hams won’t upgrade, probably won’t even operate, and their primary interest is waiting for doomsday or assisting trained personnel with their walkie-talkies and blinking lights. And you think that’s healthy for the hobby?

You say vhf/uhf is the future, not HF. Good. Maybe all the dead repeaters will now spring to life.

But you’re right, ham radio is changing.  ;)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N5CM on March 16, 2019, 11:36:31 AM
This topic arises every now and then.  Reminds me of Wayne Green back in the day.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K3UIM on March 16, 2019, 12:25:57 PM
This topic arises every now and then.  Reminds me of Wayne Green back in the day.
Many of us OT's think of it as "THE" day. LOL
Charlie, K3UIM


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KC8KTN on March 17, 2019, 04:07:58 PM
WOW.. Ham Radio will never die. Nuff said . Keeping it Real...  Everyone please be safe and Enjoy the hobby. 73s


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: OH2RM on March 18, 2019, 12:56:34 AM
Does anyone get the feeling that certain part of ham radio is slowly dieing? Being killed off by other alternative with cellphones iPads and internet?

I have talked with a few from around the world on my ham radio in  various different alternatives.

I would say 90% of those I have talked with have been older then me. I am 55. Of those 90% I would most are over 75.

Even those 10% younger then me, were all at least 40 - 55.

I know only 8 hams younger then 40, and their only reason they are hams, is cause they are in groups that hunt, or 4x4 off road, and they have 2m/70cm radios and the only time they are on their radio is when they are hunting or off roading.

I wonder what percentage of the many other tech licensees under 40 are the same or similar?

Now I have no problem with talking with someone older then me. They have the most to teach me, and usually have the best stories to tell as well. So no complaint here. I just worry about the direction our field is taking.

VOIP and combining that with repeaters and nodes is cool. But then again... why? Why not just get on our phones and use “virtual” “ham” radios. On the iPhone/iPad there are a dozen virtual voip “walkie-talkie” apps that one can use to talk to people anywhere in the world as long as they have internet. Give it another 50 years or even less, and the entire planet will no longer have cell phone coverage dead areas. Once that happens will ham radio really be even needed or used?

I use ham radio, mainly for being able to communicate when there isn’t internet and I want to be chatty! Lol

Am I totally in left field? I have my suspicions why this is the case if I am not in left field. But I accept the fact I could be. So Am I?

I quess you do not see / hear / work those modes were the growth is. I see a lot of new activity in digi modes so the hobby just evolves. I would not be worried :)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: AF7JA on March 18, 2019, 05:38:44 AM
Try this.


Post something negative about the Tech crowd and they will be screaming for 100's of years. . .

That is very likely because the Tech operators got tired of decades of derision and active jamming. The people that I know, who got tech licenses are no longer active.

I remain active in that I have had an on-air conversation in the last couple of years. "An" that means one. It consisted of:
[me] This is AF7JA, can anyone tell me, is this the repeater that is on top of the medical centre?
[someone else] no it's not
[me] ok, thanks, I was just curious, that's all, AF7JA

That is the only conversation I can recall in several years.

None of the people I got my tech with are as active as I am. This includes one that is now a trucker.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W9FIB on March 18, 2019, 05:57:53 AM
Amateur Radio is CHANGING, not dying.  ;)

I remember my early days when nothing below 30 MHz interested me. 2M SSB was my favorite band and mode. But now I am looking forward to summer and installing my 90' vertical for 160 and 80. Also looking at becoming involved in digital modes. People change all the time if givin half a chance to succeed.

Young people can evolve from "preppers" to other things IF we don't forget to treat them like we wanted to be treated when we were new to HR. And for some, unfortunately, that's a tall order.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K0UA on March 18, 2019, 08:20:12 AM
Amateur Radio is CHANGING, not dying.  ;)

I remember my early days when nothing below 30 MHz interested me. 2M SSB was my favorite band and mode. But now I am looking forward to summer and installing my 90' vertical for 160 and 80. Also looking at becoming involved in digital modes. People change all the time if givin half a chance to succeed.

Young people can evolve from "preppers" to other things IF we don't forget to treat them like we wanted to be treated when we were new to HR. And for some, unfortunately, that's a tall order.

If you hurry, you can get set up for 6 meter Es season coming in late may. Sometimes we get triple hop and you can work other countries. I am up to 21 countries and 48 states.  Alaska and Hawaii seem to be a little tough. It is fun and fast and furious.  You don't need great height to have fun. Hope to see you there.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KG9ZTX on March 18, 2019, 08:57:19 PM
I think  amateur  radio will be around for quite along time in the future for several reasons.
There are more reasons... but these are 4 good ones...

1. The preppers

2. Those who have active hobbies that involve the outdoors and being in locations with no cell service.

3. Group activities where some form of communication other then cellphones is needed.
My off road, hunting, camping group for one. To communicate to everyone, only one transmission is needed, not 20+ individual calls are needed.

4. Disaster/weather situations. As we have seen the phone grid fails during hurricanes, tornadoes etc and ham radio becomes communication central.

What modes of communication we use in those 4 above situations will change. Maybe CW, maybe RTTY, maybe FM maybe even digital. Who knows.

What bands we use and how and for what will change too. We may loose some bands and we may gain some bands.

Morse code is dying.. but there will always be some that will use it. It’s like driving an old old classic car. We don’t drive them as daily drivers, but there are still thousands of old classic cars being driven for the fun of driving them. But everyone who has a classic car, also has a modern one that they use as their main car.

The reasons for ham radio use will change, but it will be here for a long time in the future.

That’s my honest opinion.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on March 19, 2019, 07:07:17 AM
Quote from: KG9ZTX

Morse code is dying.. but there will always be some that will use it. It’s like driving an old old classic car. We don’t drive them as daily drivers, but there are still thousands of old classic cars being driven for the fun of driving them. But everyone who has a classic car, also has a modern one that they use as their main car.


can you please show your math here?  how do you arrive at your conclusion that morse code is dying? do you mean in ham radio itself, or just in terms of maritime and military usage  ???  it seems to me that there are too many hams who only operate CW and never "drive" in phone modes for your classic car comparison to fit well ...

i have been a ham since 1976 and fail to see signs that suggest your presumption is correct when it comes to ham radio.  when i returned to the ham bands after a long period of inactivity 10 years ago, and learned the requirement to learn morse code had been dropped by the FCC, i expected that i would find morse code operation sparse and in decline, but when i turned on a xcvr i found the bands full of CW activity.  Now, in 2019, i still find that to be true and dont see signs of decline -- in fact i constantly learn of "no-code" hams who are learning code and having a blast with it.  If you dont believe me, tune your rig to the CW section of the bands during the next big CW contest ...


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on March 19, 2019, 12:54:38 PM
Quote from: KG9ZTX

Morse code is dying.. but there will always be some that will use it. It’s like driving an old old classic car. We don’t drive them as daily drivers, but there are still thousands of old classic cars being driven for the fun of driving them. But everyone who has a classic car, also has a modern one that they use as their main car.


can you please show your math here?  how do you arrive at your conclusion that morse code is dying? do you mean in ham radio itself, or just in terms of maritime and military usage  ???  it seems to me that there are too many hams who only operate CW and never "drive" in phone modes for your classic car comparison to fit well ...

i have been a ham since 1976 and fail to see signs that suggest your presumption is correct when it comes to ham radio.  when i returned to the ham bands after a long period of inactivity 10 years ago, and learned the requirement to learn morse code had been dropped by the FCC, i expected that i would find morse code operation sparse and in decline, but when i turned on a xcvr i found the bands full of CW activity.  Now, in 2019, i still find that to be true and dont see signs of decline -- in fact i constantly learn of "no-code" hams who are learning code and having a blast with it.  If you dont believe me, tune your rig to the CW section of the bands during the next big CW contest ...
Please learn to use your shift key.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on March 19, 2019, 05:45:28 PM
Quote from: K1FBI
Please learn to use your shift key.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PoorCompleteCanary-max-1mb.gif)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: SOFAR on March 19, 2019, 06:06:06 PM
'dieing' (https://forums.whatthetech.com/public/style_emoticons/default/wall.gif)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W3TTT on March 19, 2019, 06:29:29 PM
 ;D

No, but Ham Radio is slowly DIETING.  Losing old weight.   :D

But really, in anywhere else but North America, I believe that the normal age background as in decades past is still the rule.  DX station ops seem to be all younger - and it can't be that everyone is using old photos... 

And even is ham radio was really "dying" I would not really care.  Look, I don't think so.  I belong to SKCC, and the club just registered it's 20,000th member.  Looks like there's an interest there! 

ARRL has 150,000 members, or so. 

3905 Century Club 40 meter net has 60-80 check ins every night - and not all the same, either.

Thousands take part in the various contests. 

The point is that there is still good activity out there on the air, even in the "traditional" modes. 

On 40m cw I almost always get a reply to my cq, or I hear a CQ in a few minutes of tuning around.  Today, two QSO's of a half hour each, and they could have gone longer. 

My bottom line is that I am happy with the hobby right now, and I don't notice much change in the nearly 30 years that I am a ham. 

Guesses about the future are nearly always wrong.  I like the quote from Bill Gates "640KB should be enough memory for anybody". 

And the quote frm Yogi Berra "you can see a lot by looking."

73, W3TTT


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W6BP on March 19, 2019, 07:53:34 PM
And the quote frm Yogi Berra "you can see a lot by looking."

Not to mention another quote attributed to Yogi: “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1QQQ on March 20, 2019, 11:20:58 PM
Remember HF has not been the best in recent eras.


The CW thing. Yes. What commercial type service uses it ? (I still hear beacons) In Amateur Radio what mode is simpler and cuts through the noise and bandwidth and all that stuff ? An international language. I have also heard from many that cw usage is picking up in various areas vs. the opposite.  I'd bet the biggest preachers of 'CW IS DEAD' are those that hate it and could never learn it or try to. I don't think anybody ever figured out why some can not digest cw as many as such are brilliant people. If one was into music and compare that to cw ? How many tones to memorize ?

I did not get the energy to post over cw but the giant question of amateur radio is dead.

When I surf sites like E-ham does not one observe many many into all kinds of aspects of the hobby ? My depression is the Tech thing. The majority forces changes. I don't want a hobby of nothing but HT's and repeaters vhf/uhf and literally nothing else. -and this crowd thinks everybody should be just like they are-
Literally if it is an aspect they are not interested in get rid of it !!!! Try to bring a cw key into a club !!!! (or even use the built into rig options)
HT's or a mobile radio for short chit-chat and never anything about radio. Social Dinners and Breakfasts. That's a HAM. It goes on the resume for hoped for career promotion.

I'll get a little weirder. Many in this hobby have many varied interests. Like maybe even a religion ? The new crowd does not like anything to do with the old stuff. Get rid of it..who cares ? Sell 160/80/40/30/20..thirty first... Then.....

When I say nothing else...no interest in anything but....FM...2/440...Maybe DMR as a fad... In psychology when do people get mad often ? Hit a sore point. Talk this terrible stuff and threads on fire will continue forever.

ICOM just came out with a multi-mode 144/440 rig. Wonder why.

I have observed many Techs do have a desire to do more. (upgrade and all that stuff)(or maybe even try 6)

I think amateur radio is dead with 90% Tech. (supposedly it is this license class that will keep amateur radio thriving for centuries to come.)

I have to study more the international health of amateur radio. It would seem around the earth many are still having fun with it.


Don't know. AND I am not trying to bash the so-called Tech !!!! If that is what people enjoy it's their choice. I don't like being forced to leave the hobby because of the Tech crowd. I just have no interest in VHF/UHF HT/MOBILE minus anything about 'radio'. I enjoy multi-mode VHF/UHF and up. geeeezzz  yes...bash me...I have been a General since 1966 and a novice prior. I had my fun as a novice working/talking to the whole earth with the same options as a present Tech.(10/15/40/80)  To me it is a hobby. Not enjoyed any longer most leave.....

I hope there is enough left to enjoy. Digital Modes are obsolete ?


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on March 21, 2019, 12:15:54 AM
Remember HF has not been the best in recent eras.


The CW thing. Yes. What commercial type service uses it ? (I still hear beacons) In Amateur Radio what mode is simpler and cuts through the noise and bandwidth and all that stuff ? An international language. I have also heard from many that cw usage is picking up in various areas vs. the opposite.  I'd bet the biggest preachers of 'CW IS DEAD' are those that hate it and could never learn it or try to. I don't think anybody ever figured out why some can not digest cw as many as such are brilliant people. If one was into music and compare that to cw ? How many tones to memorize ?

I did not get the energy to post over cw but the giant question of amateur radio is dead.

When I surf sites like E-ham does not one observe many many into all kinds of aspects of the hobby ? My depression is the Tech thing. The majority forces changes. I don't want a hobby of nothing but HT's and repeaters vhf/uhf and literally nothing else. -and this crowd thinks everybody should be just like they are-
Literally if it is an aspect they are not interested in get rid of it !!!! Try to bring a cw key into a club !!!! (or even use the built into rig options)
HT's or a mobile radio for short chit-chat and never anything about radio. Social Dinners and Breakfasts. That's a HAM. It goes on the resume for hoped for career promotion.

I'll get a little weirder. Many in this hobby have many varied interests. Like maybe even a religion ? The new crowd does not like anything to do with the old stuff. Get rid of it..who cares ? Sell 160/80/40/30/20..thirty first... Then.....

When I say nothing else...no interest in anything but....FM...2/440...Maybe DMR as a fad... In psychology when do people get mad often ? Hit a sore point. Talk this terrible stuff and threads on fire will continue forever.

ICOM just came out with a multi-mode 144/440 rig. Wonder why.

I have observed many Techs do have a desire to do more. (upgrade and all that stuff)(or maybe even try 6)

I think amateur radio is dead with 90% Tech. (supposedly it is this license class that will keep amateur radio thriving for centuries to come.)

I have to study more the international health of amateur radio. It would seem around the earth many are still having fun with it.


Don't know. AND I am not trying to bash the so-called Tech !!!! If that is what people enjoy it's their choice. I don't like being forced to leave the hobby because of the Tech crowd. I just have no interest in VHF/UHF HT/MOBILE minus anything about 'radio'. I enjoy multi-mode VHF/UHF and up. geeeezzz  yes...bash me...I have been a General since 1966 and a novice prior. I had my fun as a novice working/talking to the whole earth with the same options as a present Tech.(10/15/40/80)  To me it is a hobby. Not enjoyed any longer most leave.....

I hope there is enough left to enjoy. Digital Modes are obsolete ?

Tell the truth OM! You posted because you HATE Techs! You hide behind a club call sign instead of using KH8AC.
This is from your old website: “THIS SITE WAS EDITED BY MY GIRLFRIEND LONG LONG AGO BUT IN 2019 IT IS BEING TAKEN DOWN OVER RIDICULE BY THE NEW "TECH CROWD". IT IS IMMATERIAL TO ME IF I WERE EVER IN THE PACIFIC AND WISH NOT TO BE SUBJECT TO ENDLESS JOKES AND ENDLESS BLABBERINGS ABOUT THE PACIFIC WHEN EVERYTHING IS PROBABLY FICTION BECAUSE A GOOD PART OF 'TECH' TALK IS ALWAYS FICTION. NO...NOT ALWAYS....BUT GET A CALL OUT OF GUAM OR MARIANA ISLANDS AND THE ENDLESS JOKES ? SURE..IT IS EASY WITH A POSTAL MAILING ADDRESS but TRY TO ENLIST THE SERVICES OF SUCH FROM THE US TERRITORIES TO USA. LET ME KNOW YOUR LUCK.”

Why such hostility towards Techs??

What’s even more interesting is your trashing of VHF as a mode. Yet interestingly enough you are over on QRZ this month expressing interest in a 6 meter Ranger! A RANGER???
https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/ranger-rci-5054-dx100-6-meter-all-mode.649006/ (https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/ranger-rci-5054-dx100-6-meter-all-mode.649006/)



Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K3NRX on March 21, 2019, 06:06:34 AM
From http://www.arrl.org/fcc-license-counts

the number of current unexpired FCC issued amateur licenses held by individuals on March 15, 2019 was:

Novice:                    8,228       (1.1%)
Technician            385,288     (50.9%)
Technician Plus                0      (0.0%)
General                176,465     (23.3%)
Advanced               39,276       (5.2%)
Extra                    147,929    (19.5%)

Total                    757,186

Percentages may not add up to exactly 100.0% due to rounding.

No new Novice or Advanced licenses have been issued since April 2000. However, the totals for those classes may sometimes show an increase over prior numbers due to renewals in the grace period.

This is a new all time high record total.


Once and for all, STOP IT WITH THE GLOOM AND DOOM!!!!!!... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :o :o >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :P :P :P :P :

V
K3NRX


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9AOP on March 21, 2019, 10:14:21 AM
I AM USING A 'MILL' TODAY.  SORRY, NO LOWER CASE AVAILABLE.
ART


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on March 21, 2019, 11:23:56 AM
I AM USING A 'MILL' TODAY.  SORRY, NO LOWER CASE AVAILABLE.
ART
Sorry, I didn't notice; forgot to put my hearing aid in today. ;D


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1QQQ on March 24, 2019, 12:43:16 PM
I do not like the way amateur radio is going SO I speak out at times.

Look at the numbers ? Now if you enjoyed old amateur radio is there not some concern ? I still like to DX. All kinds of different bands and modes and it can be a challenge. Naturally the new TECH cares nothing about so-called DX or many many other things the amateur radio operator used to do. Yes...times have changed but I still look at it as there are amateur bands from the sound waves up to microwaves so absolute no interest in any of this ? -or other modes besides FM and DMR etc.

I still like to collect QSL's as to me they simply bring back memories. I still like to participate in all kinds of HF activity. Everybody has their hobby interests here. (variety)

Now if the future is just segments of 2 meters/440 and repeaters and NOTHING ELSE I think my hobby is over with.


So I grumble a little before I am gone ?


I am mistaken if the perception is put out that I simply don't like TECH's. I get depressed if tech activity is all that is left.

I think maybe I stumble across some of the wrong crowd and label everyone as the same.

In a club setting if 99% of members are TECH what is all that clubs activity ? Personally I don't think ALL HF activity is over forever. International allot of people still enjoy HF.(in amateur radio) A few are even dabbling with LF,VLF,etc.

I do not like TECH'S ? My apology if my views got that shrunk. I do not dislike any individual person BUT I dislike everything that most techs do is the only thing left in this radio hobby. I have met ....if you do not like tech activity SORRY...your hobby is gone...tough luck !!! In a club setting if somebody enjoys 12 meters AM there is no provision for that person to enjoy such ever.

Back in the 1960's prior to incentive licensing there was none of this nonsense and everybody was equal. The ARRL pushed incentive licensing and the FCC adopted it and the crowds became unequal. Some are simply better than others. (I  know it gets more complex as there were different license classes like novice and conditional, etc. Novice did have limited space to operate.

I am still a General. I myself can be targeted with dislike over that. Some strange things though is I know Extras that never used a multi-meter or even know what one looks like.

I can not ramble forever but the whole crux of my thoughts are the end of amateur radio as known and nothing nothing left but the Tech and their interests. If the FCC decides to auction everything below 54 mhz nobody cares anymore.


If I were known personally I am not the a-hole some might perceive. For all I care let the Tech have full frequency privileges. If one is against that they must be a real a-hole !!!  Now this thread can go on till 2024 ?


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K3UIM on March 24, 2019, 01:58:46 PM
QQQ: I have to admit that I truly understand your feelings.

I, too, am from the 60's with the "Novice to General" phase of learning. It was a tough time working the tiny frequency "slots" allocated to us that motivated us to bust our butts to learn by reading, building most of our rigs, test equipment and antennas and pounding away on the straight key to go to the "big-test" up in Buffalo, NY. (A visit to the dentist would have been easier on the nerves!!)

I get frustrated at times when it looks like the techs are going to be all that's left in our group in time. I did as much as I could with building circuitry just to reason out the why's and wherefor's of ham electronics. (Granted, I loved every minute of the time I invested, but I guess I kind of resent the techs being practically handed their tickets without having to "explain" circuitry, etc to prove their electronic abilities. The multiple choice tests lack a bit of knowledge along that line. But then, maybe I'm out in left field with my feelings. … sigh …)

I can't believe the tech's self satisfaction can possibly be the same as ours! Kind of like us working 50 years to provide a living for our families after retirement and then seeing today's 2nd and 3rd welfare generation with the very large TVs, multiple tattoos, etc, that we can't afford.  (The grasshopper and the ant!)

Oh boy! Will I hear about this rant!!! LOL

Charlie, K3UIM


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K3NRX on March 25, 2019, 05:22:09 AM
I do not like the way amateur radio is going SO I speak out at times.

Look at the numbers ? Now if you enjoyed old amateur radio is there not some concern ? I still like to DX. All kinds of different bands and modes and it can be a challenge. Naturally the new TECH cares nothing about so-called DX or many many other things the amateur radio operator used to do. Yes...times have changed but I still look at it as there are amateur bands from the sound waves up to microwaves so absolute no interest in any of this ? -or other modes besides FM and DMR etc.

I still like to collect QSL's as to me they simply bring back memories. I still like to participate in all kinds of HF activity. Everybody has their hobby interests here. (variety)

Now if the future is just segments of 2 meters/440 and repeaters and NOTHING ELSE I think my hobby is over with.


So I grumble a little before I am gone ?


I am mistaken if the perception is put out that I simply don't like TECH's. I get depressed if tech activity is all that is left.

I think maybe I stumble across some of the wrong crowd and label everyone as the same.

In a club setting if 99% of members are TECH what is all that clubs activity ? Personally I don't think ALL HF activity is over forever. International allot of people still enjoy HF.(in amateur radio) A few are even dabbling with LF,VLF,etc.

I do not like TECH'S ? My apology if my views got that shrunk. I do not dislike any individual person BUT I dislike everything that most techs do is the only thing left in this radio hobby. I have met ....if you do not like tech activity SORRY...your hobby is gone...tough luck !!! In a club setting if somebody enjoys 12 meters AM there is no provision for that person to enjoy such ever.

Back in the 1960's prior to incentive licensing there was none of this nonsense and everybody was equal. The ARRL pushed incentive licensing and the FCC adopted it and the crowds became unequal. Some are simply better than others. (I  know it gets more complex as there were different license classes like novice and conditional, etc. Novice did have limited space to operate.

I am still a General. I myself can be targeted with dislike over that. Some strange things though is I know Extras that never used a multi-meter or even know what one looks like.

I can not ramble forever but the whole crux of my thoughts are the end of amateur radio as known and nothing nothing left but the Tech and their interests. If the FCC decides to auction everything below 54 mhz nobody cares anymore.


If I were known personally I am not the a-hole some might perceive. For all I care let the Tech have full frequency privileges. If one is against that they must be a real a-hole !!!  Now this thread can go on till 2024 ?


Dude....it will NEVER happen.....do you realize how much and how popular these dxpeditions are???....are they all operating on VHF?...don't think so....and if you have any doubts, look at the MONEY in donations that these operations accumulate.....that in and of itself is enough to warrant that everything below 54 MHZ will NOT be auctioned off.....So sick of the gloom and doom and these threads.........

again, repeating....HAM RADIO....THE ONLY HOBBY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH THAT HAS BEEN ON LIFE SUPPORT FOR THE PAST 110 YEARS!!!!!..... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

V
K3NRX



Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1QQQ on March 25, 2019, 02:15:56 PM
At least the last 2 posts seemed to understand me.


O-is VHF a mode ?? I thought about buying another Ranger 6 meter radio used if the price was low enough. I believe it does SSB/CW. (yes...I have another stored away..the older versions were only 10 watts...The Ranger company is sort of in limbo. What happened to it ? Some say now in Viet-Nam.  ps..that rig has no tones for a repeater unless you got one of their special tone boards but good luck...



Otherwise there are always the message-board 'trolls' (is that what you call it ?). Say anything somebody has different views on and they freak out. Even try to investigate forever the person with a differing opinion. Exciting ?   ooops..that a negative comment ?


I enjoy EHAM and other places as an interesting place to review what others are doing and 'help' at maybe the most simple or complex things.


On the negative when 99% is TECHNICIAN where do all the non-technician amateur frequencies go ? Up for auction.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on March 25, 2019, 06:53:42 PM



O-is VHF a mode ??

OH is a word; O is a letter. I have no idea what O-is means or represents. VHF is an acronym and it stands for Very High Frequency. This is in the Technician Question Pool. Maybe you can get a local Tech to help you with the things you forgot over the years.



Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K5TED on March 26, 2019, 06:52:06 PM
Ham radio is being killed off by instant gratification, not cellphones and iPads.

When new hams stop at a Baofeng and wonder why the hobby isn't satisfying.

When new hams attempt to equate the wonder of HF comms around the world with internet comms dependent on their PC or mobile device.

When new hams don't grasp the intent of ham radio, and instead treat it as just another social app.




Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: WO7R on April 02, 2019, 10:32:13 AM
When I look at actual evidence, I see nothing that indicates the hobby is dying.

I have been assured that it is dying since I first got licensed in the late '80s.  One of Wayne Green's legacies perhaps.

The change seems to be demographic.  Not many kids are being licensed as teenagers.

But, so what?  The VE program has ended up as a smashing success; people find their way to us in the '30s and '40s when they have money and maybe, more time.

The FCC data base (posted up earlier in this thread) shows there are as many or more with licenses as there ever has been.  So, no "death" there.

What about HF?

Well, that's harder to measure.  The CQ WW contest folks used to publish a nice graph of "logs submitted".  Unfortunately, I don't see it anymore.  But, if you want to work at it, most of the data is there.

Here's some "logs submitted" over the last decade for SSB:

2018   8033   (from https://www.cqww.com/publiclogs/2018ph/)
2017   8161
2016   7266
2015   7904
2014   7920
2013   8104
2012   7847
2011   7098
2010   6175
2009   5703
2008   4728
2007   4867
2006   4243
2005   4205

CW has these numbers:

2018   7668
2017   7967
2016   7697
2015   7203   (from https://www.cqww.com/publiclogs/2015cw/)
...
2007   4576
2006   4259
2005   3866

This is all they publish now (and all I bothered to look up -- you can do 2008 to 2014 for CW yourself).  However, when they did publish that nice graph, it went way back at least as far back to the '60s.  On the whole, the submitted log count grew over the years.

Maybe these numbers represent other trends.  But the one thing they do not support is the thesis that "ham radio is dying" either in terms of total licensure or HF activity.

You can also look at data from LOTW and from Clublog.  None show any sort of drop-off.  The magnitudes from those sources are in the 10s of million of QSOs per year.  It is unlikely that either LOTW or Clublog contain a great fraction of VHF, though surely there is some.  None of it is local 2m net repeater activity however.

We seem to be panicking largely because people don't get licensed before they are 20.  AFAICT, that's it.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N0YXB on April 02, 2019, 11:19:46 AM

We seem to be panicking largely because people don't get licensed before they are 20.  AFAICT, that's it.

Yes! I concur.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KG7FIU on April 07, 2019, 10:27:51 PM
"slowly dying"... ???

(http://www.arrl.org/images/view/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202018.JPG)
source: ARRL

Uh, I take issue with your graph.  It's a subtle misrepresentation of data.  A more accurate depiction of the number of hams would show a nearly flat line -- with a very slightly increasing slope.  A graph that accurately reflects the relatively low increase in hams "percentage-wise".   Perhaps something like this:

(https://www.qrz.com/hampages/kg7fiu/Graph1.png)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 08, 2019, 05:35:41 AM
"slowly dying"... ???

(http://www.arrl.org/images/view/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202018.JPG)
source: ARRL

Uh, I take issue with your graph.  It's a subtle misrepresentation of data.  A more accurate depiction of the number of hams would show a nearly flat line -- with a very slightly increasing slope.  A graph that accurately reflects the relatively low increase in hams "percentage-wise".   Perhaps something like this:

(https://www.qrz.com/hampages/kg7fiu/Graph1.png)

It reminds me of over enthusiastic stock market graphing. The first year is in reality, only an increase of slightly less than 1.3%. Although if the 9,130 new hams got on the air at the same time that year, we would probably all be complaining about that.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W9FIB on April 08, 2019, 05:44:41 AM
Actually if they are made to scale, either graph is accurate. The top graph shows the data in a range while the lower shows from 100,000 axis. But in reality they do show the same thing. If you want a flatter line yet, set the x axis to say 0 - 5,000,000. Then your data will be even more a straight horizontal line. But yet it would still show the same data.

To say showing the same data in a narrow range vs. a wide range is a misrepresentation is incorrect. Even if you try to interpret percentage, you need to pick a starting point. Do you use 0, or do you use the 2014 number. Even then using the same starting point to calculate percentage still would have the same numbers. The numbers are the same in either graph. They mean the same thing in either graph. The main difference is the amount of useless space you want to show vs. better visual detail.

The lower graph would have more meaning if it were spread out over a much longer y axis timeline. Like going back to 1969 and show a 50 year trend. Or 1919 for a 100 year trend. Then the bottom portion of the lower graph would actually contain data, and be more historically relevant. As over time, the numbers would fall out of the range of the top graph.

Simply put, don't try to blow smoke visually when the data and the math says the same thing in either graph.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 08, 2019, 07:05:35 AM
Don't kid yourself. Everyone from Politicians and Bankers to gun control advocates plot graphs to make the data "appear" more significant than what it is. This is done with an intent, regardless if the total numbers and percentages are still the same.

Data is skewed by:
Omitting the baseline
Manipulation of the Y-Axis
Data Cherry Picking
Using the wrong graph
Going against tradition with shading

You are smart enough to know what the other Ops point was, even if he could have articulated it better.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K5NOK on April 08, 2019, 09:55:00 AM
Yes. Yes.
Ham Radio is dying. We all know it is true.
What with that new mode that everyone is doing now.

I mean, I can't even fire up my spark gap transmitter without someone complaining...Sigh.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 08, 2019, 11:50:58 AM
Yes. Yes.
Ham Radio is dying. We all know it is true.
What with that new mode that everyone is doing now.

I mean, I can't even fire up my spark gap transmitter without someone complaining...Sigh.

7.074 and 14.074 are two great places to fire up your spark gap!


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on April 08, 2019, 04:13:22 PM

Quote from: N9KX
"slowly dying"... ???

(http://www.arrl.org/images/view/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202018.JPG)
source: ARRL

Quote from: KG7FIU
Uh, I take issue with your graph.  It's a subtle misrepresentation of data.  A more accurate depiction of the number of hams would show a nearly flat line -- with a very slightly increasing slope.  A graph that accurately reflects the relatively low increase in hams "percentage-wise".   Perhaps something like this:

(https://www.qrz.com/hampages/kg7fiu/Graph1.png)

1. it is not my graph -- it is the ARRL's
2. obviously they have chosen to graph the data in a way that emphasizes the incline of growth in the hobby over the last 5 years
3. because it overemphasizes the rate of growth it serves as the perfect foil to the ridiculous question that is the  pretext of this thread: "is ham radio slowly dying?"  :D
4. the graph you posted as a better representation of ham radio's growth is a bad link


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W9FIB on April 08, 2019, 07:24:16 PM
Don't kid yourself. Everyone from Politicians and Bankers to gun control advocates plot graphs to make the data "appear" more significant than what it is. This is done with an intent, regardless if the total numbers and percentages are still the same.

Data is skewed by:
Omitting the baseline
Manipulation of the Y-Axis
Data Cherry Picking
Using the wrong graph
Going against tradition with shading

You are smart enough to know what the other Ops point was, even if he could have articulated it better.

You should be the one not to kid. No matter which graph you use, the numbers are the same. An intelligent person understands the meaning of data no matter what kind of graph is used. Especially when it is the same numbers.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: AK4YH on April 08, 2019, 11:50:41 PM
The title should be "amateur radio is dying and it's our fault."

Our hobby is a bit solitary. Yes, we communicate, although even that is debatable, but we are not seen... When have you last seen a Ham operator using a radio outside of a planned event? Me, never. Most people don't even know our hobby exists. There is very little effort being made to popularise amateur radio. And let's not talk about the Emcomm wankers, nobody wants to be that guy (yes, emcomm is important, no, they're not all wankers).

We need to get out of the shack! Operate in public parcs, where there are people around. I always get lots of questions when I do so... Instead, we hide... We are worried of what people might say, maybe even call the cops on us, don't! And of course home is so much more comfortable... This is probably why many Ham operators are so fat... Few people are going to join our ranks if they don't see Ham radio in operation. The younger ones don't want to talk to old guys (their loss).

Get out of the shack!

Gil.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KC8KTN on April 09, 2019, 12:18:05 AM
Seems like a troll question. No ham radio is not dying. Whats wrong with everyone. Nuff said. Keeping it Real. 73s to all. The proof that ham radio is not dying is look how AWESOME Eham.net is. Nuff said...... Wow.  Everyone please be safe and Enjoy the hobby..
P.S. Dayton Ham fest will be here soon getting larger and larger every year.  
P.S#2. I got a feeling that the arrl and fcc will be opening coverage to all the bands for the General class liscence coming soon...


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: WI8P on April 09, 2019, 01:59:20 AM
"slowly dying"... ???

(http://www.arrl.org/images/view/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202018.JPG)
source: ARRL

Uh, I take issue with your graph.  It's a subtle misrepresentation of data.  A more accurate depiction of the number of hams would show a nearly flat line -- with a very slightly increasing slope.  A graph that accurately reflects the relatively low increase in hams "percentage-wise".   Perhaps something like this:

(https://www.qrz.com/hampages/kg7fiu/Graph1.png)

It reminds me of over enthusiastic stock market graphing. The first year is in reality, only an increase of slightly less than 1.3%. Although if the 9,130 new hams got on the air at the same time that year, we would probably all be complaining about that.

A few things from this conversation come to mind:

Saying: Figures lie and Liars figure.

Story: Large company is interviewing a prospective accountant.  They throw a bunch of numbers at him and ask him what the bottom line would be. The prospective accountant leaps from his chair, runs to the door and looks both ways down the outside hallway.  Seeing it is clear, he comes back to his chair and calmly replies: "What would you like it to be?" He got the job.

Russian newspaper headline screams: Great Car Race! Russia comes in second place! America finishes next to last!
The point: There were only two cars in the race.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 09, 2019, 02:33:47 AM
^^
That's funny!


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 09, 2019, 02:41:40 AM
Seems like a troll question.................
P.S#2. I got a feeling that the arrl and fcc will be opening coverage to all the bands for the General class liscence coming soon...

It's the latest ARRL proposal and they are calling it Disincentive Licensing! :o


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on April 09, 2019, 07:03:03 AM

A few things from this conversation come to mind:

Saying: Figures lie and Liars figure.


1. the graph does skew the rate of growth of our hobby over the past 4 years in order to highlight growth
2. the numbers and dates in the graph are accurate (the number of ham radio licenses in the USA has grown at an average of 7000+ licensees per year from 2014 thru 2018)

so which is the bigger "lie" here:

the ARRL graph or "figuring" that ham radio is slowly dying?


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 09, 2019, 09:09:43 AM
Hams are dying; Hams Radio is not!



Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W9FIB on April 09, 2019, 09:39:44 AM

1. the graph does skew the rate of growth

How? The rate of change is the same since it uses the same amounts for each year. Or does the data rate change just because the y axis changes? If so show the math that confirms the rate changed based on the 2 different graphs with the same data points.

Only the visual effect changes, not the actual data being displayed. And with both charts lacking much detail, the only really important facts the graphs show are the actual annual numbers...which are the same.

You can really make it look bad by reversing the y axis so the slope of the line goes down. Yet the actual numbers will still be the same and still indicate accurately the increase in hams per year. Now that's playing visual games.

2. the numbers and dates in the graph are accurate (the number of ham radio licenses in the USA has grown at an average of 7000+ licensees per year from 2014 thru 2018)

That's my point...both accurately show the same numbers.

so which is the bigger "lie" here:

the ARRL graph or "figuring" that ham radio is slowly dying?

With increasing amounts of licenses, how can the hobby be dying?


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 09, 2019, 09:50:08 AM

1. the graph does skew the rate of growth

How? The rate of change is the same since it uses the same amounts for each year. Or does the data rate change just because the y axis changes? If so show the math that confirms the rate changed based on the 2 different graphs with the same data points.

Only the visual effect changes, not the actual data being displayed. And with both charts lacking much detail, the only really important facts the graphs show are the actual annual numbers...which are the same.

You can really make it look bad by reversing the y axis so the slope of the line goes down. Yet the actual numbers will still be the same and still indicate accurately the increase in hams per year. Now that's playing visual games.

2. the numbers and dates in the graph are accurate (the number of ham radio licenses in the USA has grown at an average of 7000+ licensees per year from 2014 thru 2018)

That's my point...both accurately show the same numbers.

so which is the bigger "lie" here:

the ARRL graph or "figuring" that ham radio is slowly dying?

With increasing amounts of licenses, how can the hobby be dying?

The Know Code aspect of the hobby is dying.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W9FIB on April 09, 2019, 10:07:47 AM
The Know Code aspect of the hobby is dying.

And that is a bad thing? I don't use CW since I switched to digital. And with some digital modes, it is more robust then CW since my aging ears don't have to actually hear it in the noise to make a solid copy contact. Actually 21st century stuff instead of 20th century stuff. And the main reason I would never support bringing back a code requirement.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K3UIM on April 09, 2019, 11:44:38 AM
FIB:
@#$%^&*~ !!!
(Sorry you had to hear that from me!) LOL
Now I have to say 3 Hail Mary's and say aloud the 10 Commandments. (And I'm a Baptist!!! Sheesh!!)
Charlie "Viva La CW!!" K3UIM


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on April 09, 2019, 06:35:22 PM
Quote from: WI8P
A few things from this conversation come to mind:

Saying: Figures lie and Liars figure.

Quote from: N9KX
1. the graph does skew the rate of growth

Quote from: W9FIB
How? The rate of change is the same since it uses the same amounts for each year. Or does the data rate change just because the y axis changes? If so show the math that confirms the rate changed based on the 2 different graphs with the same data points.

Only the visual effect changes, not the actual data being displayed. And with both charts lacking much detail, the only really important facts the graphs show are the actual annual numbers...which are the same.

You can really make it look bad by reversing the y axis so the slope of the line goes down. Yet the actual numbers will still be the same and still indicate accurately the increase in hams per year. Now that's playing visual games.

the graph presents a visual trend line that is skewed to the extent it deviates in incline from a graph where the Y axis started at a normal starting point of zero.
as you say the actual numbers are correct so if one looks deeper than merely at the angle of the trend lines nothing is technically mispresented.
and the only reason i acknowledged the fact that the ARRL graph i posted skews the data was because WI8P pointed out how easily we can be misled by the way pictures get framed

Quote from: N9KX
2. the numbers and dates in the graph are accurate (the number of ham radio licenses in the USA has grown at an average of 7000+ licenses per year from 2014 thru 2018)

Quote from: W9FIB
That's my point...both accurately show the same numbers.

agreed -- again, the context for my response was the post made by WI8P where he pointed out how easily information can be presented in ways that promote misleading interpretations (for example see his hilarious example of the Great Car Race) :D

so which is the bigger "lie" here:

the ARRL graph or "figuring" that ham radio is slowly dying?

Quote from: W9FIB
With increasing amounts of licenses, how can the hobby be dying?

the reason i posted the ARRL graph was to ask that exact same rhetorical question ;)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on April 09, 2019, 06:56:04 PM

Uh, I take issue with your graph.  It's a subtle misrepresentation of data.  A more accurate depiction of the number of hams would show a nearly flat line -- with a very slightly increasing slope.  A graph that accurately reflects the relatively low increase in hams "percentage-wise".   Perhaps something like this:

(https://www.qrz.com/hampages/kg7fiu/Graph1.png)

for some reason, today the graph you posted is showing up for me (whereas earlier there was no graph at all; so apparently the fault was not with the link).

again, the graph i used was from the ARRL and i used it precisely because i find it to be a good counter-balance to the question in this thread's title.
your graph above better portrays the angle of the growth trend line, but its Y axis starts at 100,000 instead of true zero and it also only portrays 2014 thru 2018.
it would show a bigger picture if the X axis represented several decades (instead of just 5 recent years)...


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 10, 2019, 12:40:00 AM
How many of the total license holders are Silent Keys(deceased)? It's hard to get an accurate figure until those licenses expire. In the meantime more Hams expire.

Also how many are active, on the air Hams? I know of several Hams locally who just renew their license because they earned it. Yet, they haven't been on the air in the past 10-20 years.
Some don't even own a rig any more.

Sometimes....Figures don't Figure. :o


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: KC8KTN on April 10, 2019, 07:10:22 AM
This topic is dying. Nuff said. 73s
Everyone please be safe and Enjoy the rest of the week.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K9MRD on April 10, 2019, 07:56:10 AM
If I were analyzing this data I would also be looking at the number of hams vs US population from 1960 to date. Results SHOULD/MAY be instructive regarding trend.

Wayne
K9mrd since 1958


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: PU2OZT on April 10, 2019, 08:53:28 AM
If I were analyzing this data I would also be looking at the number of hams vs US population from 1960 to date. Results SHOULD/MAY be instructive regarding trend.

Wayne
K9mrd since 1958

Worth considering % housings in the 60s that had antennas to feed one, or several receivers, radios, televisions vs today's numbers.
In a sense, FM switched (killed) the way we were coping with propagation, and satellites, the way we were communicating with friends and family in remote places or at sea.

No one cares what ether is though quite everyone uses 3G, 4G or 5G.
Which Radio Mindset is remaining, that, would be a pertinent gauge.
 
Oliver


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: WO7R on April 11, 2019, 09:46:35 PM
This data (on US licensing) has been around for a long time.  It has never (that I recall) suggested a decline in ham population.

I don't have the numbers at my elbow any more, but back when Wayne Green was hammering away on this like it was a fact,  I did look into the government published numbers on US ham population.

Turns out, at that time, the numbers were around 650K licensees and no worse than stable.  That's what I remember.

Similarly, though I cannot find the numbers now, things like "logs submitted" for  CQ WW were available well back into the past and did not suggest any drop off in participation.  What those graphs used to show (when I could find them) were varying degrees of growth in the count of logs submitted.

It's easy to find reasons to suspect one's favorite hobby is declining, but whenever I have looked over the decades, I never found it to be true, especially if I looked at the broadest, largest items like US licenses or CQ WW participation where one would expect to see any general declines as impossible to mask.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W9FIB on April 12, 2019, 03:01:56 AM
Found an interesting chart by AH0A. It starts back in June of 97 with 678,473 to Jan of 19 with 755,952. Pretty much a slow steady increase throughout the time span. So a graph would show mostly a similar slope to the ARRL graph. That gives us an almost 22 year window to look at. No death spiral here.

http://ah0a.org/FCC/Licenses.html (http://ah0a.org/FCC/Licenses.html)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on April 12, 2019, 01:01:11 PM
Found an interesting chart by AH0A. It starts back in June of 97 with 678,473 to Jan of 19 with 755,952. Pretty much a slow steady increase throughout the time span. So a graph would show mostly a similar slope to the ARRL graph. That gives us an almost 22 year window to look at. No death spiral here.

http://ah0a.org/FCC/Licenses.html (http://ah0a.org/FCC/Licenses.html)

thanks for the helpful link. when i was first licensed as a teen in 1976, it seemed to me ham radio was mostly an older person's hobby even then -- while there were young hams they were the exception rather than the norm.  i dont get the impression ham radio is aging any faster than the general population as a whole.  maybe what is slowly dying is the perception that ham radio is cutting technology since technology has made such jumps since when radio communication was state of the art and kind of special ...

one thing is slowly dying -- the number of US hams with an Advanced license.  that number is down over 60% since 1997... for me, it was the tasty DX that hangs out in the Extra class CW portions of the band that [finally] was enough incentive for me to upgrade from Advanced (after 35 years of meh)...

i wonder if the trend is pretty much the same the world over?  Has the number of licensed ham stations in Japan, England, Brazil, Canada, Australia, Russia, Germany, Egypt and elsewhere slowly & continually grown over the past several decades?


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K6BRN on April 13, 2019, 11:22:14 AM
Interesting that California has the highest percentage (of all U.S. hams) of hams in the nation -- 14% (116,353), which is TWICE as much as the NEXT highest state (Texas, of course) at 7% (57,971).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_operator#Demographics

Same with the number of ham clubs:  1,559 (CA) vs. 769 (TX)

WE ROCK!  YAY!

Brian - K6BRN





Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W9FIB on April 13, 2019, 11:32:25 AM
Interesting that California has the highest percentage (of all U.S. hams) of hams in the nation -- 14% (116,353), which is TWICE as much as the NEXT highest state (Texas, of course) at 7% (57,971).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_operator#Demographics

Same with the number of ham clubs:  1,559 (CA) vs. 769 (TX)

WE ROCK!  YAY!

Brian - K6BRN

More QRM there too!  :D


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K6BRN on April 13, 2019, 05:51:15 PM
Quote
More QRM there too!  Cheesy

And bigger solid-state amps, too.  Space companies.  Chip companies.  Tesla.  Swimming pools.  Movie stars...

Quote
Come and listen to my story 'bout an engineer named "Ned"
A poor starving student, barely kept his kitty fed,
And then one day he was lookin' at some jobs,
And out through the phone came a clamerin' flood.

Jobs that is, engineering jobs, lots of 'em..

Well the first thing you know ol Ned's a-movin out,
Girlfriend said 'Let's get away from here"
Said "Californy is the place we oughtta be"
So they loaded up the junk and they moved to beach & sea!

Redondo Beach, that is. Swimmin pools, Techno-stars... 

Quote
Cheesy

Now THAT's cheesy!

The Golden State.  We have more of EVERYTHING.  Including taxes, earthquakes and politicians.

73 DE Brian - K6BRN


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W9FIB on April 13, 2019, 08:42:51 PM
I will stick with WI where things are quiet and small tech companies like Allen Bradley, ABB, Eaton, Yaskawa help build the electrical world.  ;)

And then of course is the beer. For the price of 1 bottle in CA you can afford to get drunk in WI.  ;D

And more fresh water then we could ever use...even in a drought.  8)

Plus you can breathe the air and not need California emissions.  :o


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K6BRN on April 13, 2019, 09:22:14 PM
Quote
will stick with WI where things are quiet and small tech companies like Allen Bradley, ABB, Eaton, Yaskawa help build the electrical world.  Wink
And then of course is the beer. For the price of 1 bottle in CA you can afford to get drunk in WI.  Grin
And more fresh water then we could ever use...even in a drought.  Cool
Plus you can breathe the air and not need California emissions.  Shocked

Hmmm.  VERY convincing argument.  Especially about the beer.  Now that you've brought it up, about 4,000,000 of us will be dropping in to have a look-see.  Same thing happening to Washington, Colorado and Oregon.  Be careful what you ask for!

BTW, how are the winters?  :)

Brian - K6BRN


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on April 13, 2019, 09:33:46 PM

BTW, how are the winters?  :)


brrrr. nevermind the answer... that question was cold!  ::)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: WI8P on April 14, 2019, 03:23:53 AM
Quote
will stick with WI where things are quiet and small tech companies like Allen Bradley, ABB, Eaton, Yaskawa help build the electrical world.  Wink
And then of course is the beer. For the price of 1 bottle in CA you can afford to get drunk in WI.  Grin
And more fresh water then we could ever use...even in a drought.  Cool
Plus you can breathe the air and not need California emissions.  Shocked

Hmmm.  VERY convincing argument.  Especially about the beer.  Now that you've brought it up, about 4,000,000 of us will be dropping in to have a look-see.  Same thing happening to Washington, Colorado and Oregon.  Be careful what you ask for!

BTW, how are the winters?  :)

Brian - K6BRN

What percentage of those 4mil won't speak English?  :D


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 14, 2019, 04:39:28 AM
Quote
will stick with WI where things are quiet and small tech companies like Allen Bradley, ABB, Eaton, Yaskawa help build the electrical world.  Wink
And then of course is the beer. For the price of 1 bottle in CA you can afford to get drunk in WI.  Grin
And more fresh water then we could ever use...even in a drought.  Cool
Plus you can breathe the air and not need California emissions.  Shocked

Hmmm.  VERY convincing argument.  Especially about the beer.  Now that you've brought it up, about 4,000,000 of us will be dropping in to have a look-see.  Same thing happening to Washington, Colorado and Oregon.  Be careful what you ask for!

BTW, how are the winters?  :)

Brian - K6BRN

What percentage of those 4mil won't speak English?  :D

Mention anything FREE or CHEAP Cerveza and it should be close to 100%


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on April 14, 2019, 06:54:45 AM
What percentage of those 4mil won't speak English?  :D

in that same vein, what percentage of those in Wisconsin today wont speak Ojibwe?  ;)

(https://pics.me.me/Imgur-c45edf.png)


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 14, 2019, 09:00:15 AM
What percentage of those 4mil won't speak English?  :D

in that same vein, what percentage of those in Wisconsin today wont speak Ojibwe?  ;)

(https://pics.me.me/Imgur-c45edf.png)


Moral of the story:

The Indians should have built a wall!


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K3UIM on April 14, 2019, 09:51:14 AM

Moral of the story:

The Indians should have built a wall!


Woo-Hah!!!

Charlie, K3UIM


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9LCD on April 14, 2019, 10:53:17 AM
The question nobody has addressed:

      WORLDWIDE, IS THE GROWTH IN LICENSED KEEPING UP WITH THE POPULATION GROWTH?

If the growth in licensed amateurs is NOT KEEPING UP with the overall growth in the population then it is time ti face the fact that amateur radio is in CRITICAL CONDITION.

N9LCD


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: W9FIB on April 14, 2019, 10:54:43 AM
BTW, how are the winters?  :)
Brian - K6BRN

Winters are great!

Lakes freeze over so I can drive out on them for fishing.

Snow for the snowmobiles. Frozen rivers become highways.

Snow for tracking while hunting.

And even quieter conditions so 160M is easier to use.

Northern lights when activity on the sun actually happens.


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K1FBI on April 14, 2019, 11:59:12 AM
The question nobody has addressed:

      WORLDWIDE, IS THE GROWTH IN LICENSED KEEPING UP WITH THE POPULATION GROWTH?

If the growth in licensed amateurs is NOT KEEPING UP with the overall growth in the population then it is time ti face the fact that amateur radio is in CRITICAL CONDITION.

N9LCD

Instead of asking that question, maybe you should do the research yourself. Then let the rest of us know.  :o


Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: N9FB on April 14, 2019, 12:49:35 PM
The question nobody has addressed:

      WORLDWIDE, IS THE GROWTH IN LICENSED KEEPING UP WITH THE POPULATION GROWTH?

If the growth in licensed amateurs is NOT KEEPING UP with the overall growth in the population then it is time ti face the fact that amateur radio is in CRITICAL CONDITION.

N9LCD

hold on -- let's look at that the other way:

If the growth in licensed amateurs worldwide DOES keeping up with human population growth and we aren't allocated more frequencies: Houston we have a problem!  :D

(https://www.lifegate.com/app/uploads/world-population.jpg)

(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fniallmccarthy%2Ffiles%2F2017%2F06%2F20170622_World_Population.jpg)

otoh, working Asia may become a lot easier for those of us in North America :D

(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/world-pop-share.jpg)





Title: RE: Age? Is ham radio slowly dieing?
Post by: K6BRN on April 14, 2019, 09:41:33 PM
Quote
What percentage of those 4mil won't speak English?  Cheesy

Not many.  Worldwide, "English" is a very popular inter-cultural language so most of those that immigrate already know it, and those that don't go to great lengths to learn it.  Just like my Grandpa did.  I think English was his 5th language.  But I'm partial to Esperanto, myself.  It's a LOT more consistent.

Quote
Winters are great!

Lakes freeze over so I can drive out on them for fishing.

Snow for the snowmobiles. Frozen rivers become highways.

Snow for tracking while hunting.

Yes.  I grew up in the Northeast and love that about winters, too.  But my XYL does not.  And as you get older, cold, bad weather becomes a lot more problematic.  So here, in the Golden State, we drive up to the snow in a few hours time (MANY hours if there's traffic).  Enjoy it for a day, or a week, and then head back to the incredibly beautiful beaches and warm sand.  And where the ocean water is freezing cold (Arctic "California Current").  THey left that LAST part out of "Bay Watch".  But the actors knew this very well.

[Happy!  Happy!  Baaayyy WAATCH!  Aaaiiiieeee!!!! that !@#$ water is COLD!)

Heard it more than once on the business band, back in the day it was being filmed nearby.

Brian - K6BRN