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eHam Forums => Remote HF Station Control => Topic started by: K1QQQ on March 12, 2019, 06:57:26 PM



Title: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K1QQQ on March 12, 2019, 06:57:26 PM
I know not what forum this belongs in but I have been missing another possible operating angel.

If a generator was light enough and quiet could it not be a possible miracle for people unable to operate ?

I have heard HONDA. Quiet ? If one has no options drive somewhere and use a quiet generator. 100 watt transceiver ? I know not the varieties and costs but quiet a must. A camping trip ? I briefly surfed upon a few Honda's but nothing yet to learn anything.


Fuel and longevity ? Quiet ? Weight ? Longevity ? RFI.   Forget powering for electrical failures (for house,etc.) BUT as a power source just for a 100 watt transceiver. Feasible ?  One spends $1000+ for a radio they can't operate so ?

Ii seems somebody could find some place to operate especially in a rural place.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: KD0REQ on March 12, 2019, 07:18:20 PM
Consu — uh, a leading test magazine that doesn’t want to be linked to brands — rated the Harbor Freight inverter generators right up there with Honda. A titch louder, a titch uglier, but same job for half the price.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K6BRN on March 12, 2019, 07:33:44 PM
Quote
a leading test magazine that doesn’t want to be linked to brands — rated the Harbor Freight inverter generators right up there with Honda. A titch louder, a titch uglier, but same job for half the price

Ha ha...ha. ho.ho...  ack ... choke....splutter. (there goes my IPA).

Oh...yeah.  I'm sure that's the case.  Right there with you.  (NOT).  Time to get a new subscription.

You know, Yugos were really very good cars!  Just misunderstood.  (Choke!)



Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K6BRN on March 13, 2019, 06:20:27 AM
BTW - The Honda EU1000i is 29 lbs, produces 900 watts continuous (1 KW peak). Runs for many hours on a half-gallon of gas.  Mine is still going strong after more than a decade. 

For dual use (some home backup yet still portable), the EU2200i is hard to beat. But it's weight is up to about 48 lbs.   Note that there are commercial and consumer versions of the EU2200i.  The commercial version adds GFI and deletes 12V battery charging, and I think cross-strapping.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: KD0REQ on March 13, 2019, 09:51:32 AM
nobody said the cheapo would last 20 years, just that it worked well in their tests.

the usual rules of physics and Murphy still apply... you pay for service availiability and less need for it.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K6BRN on March 13, 2019, 07:32:00 PM
Hmmm.  Well... the cost of a generator is really (purchase cost + maintenence cost)/usable srvice life.  If you actually use it, this is what counts, and if you don't use it, perhaps you shouldn't buy it.

Another thought... which would you rather have in the event of, say... a Florida hurricane?  A Harbor Freight special, or a Honda?

Just need to look at the reviews from real users who've actually put the products to work.

On the other hand, if you have a boat and need an anchor, maybe the Harbor freight path is the right one.  Kinda expensive for an anchor, though.  And leaks oil.  OK.  Scratch that idea.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: N8AUC on March 14, 2019, 11:28:48 AM
Consu — uh, a leading test magazine that doesn’t want to be linked to brands — rated the Harbor Freight inverter generators right up there with Honda. A titch louder, a titch uglier, but same job for half the price.
Indeed, the Harbor Freight generator is cheaper than the Honda.

In my experience, the Harbor Freight inverter generator generates tons of RF noise. The Honda doesn't.
Which is fine, unless you're trying to operate a radio on the HF bands. We tried one at Field Day three years ago. Never again.

I'm usually a fan of Harbor Freight stuff. But in this case, my recommendation is to save your pennies and get the Honda.
In this case, you really do get what you pay for.

Oh, and if you want quiet? Use solar panels and a big battery.

73 de N8AUC
Eric


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K0UA on March 15, 2019, 07:52:24 AM
A Honda generator on the end of a 50 foot HD cord is so quiet you will not likely be able to hear it.  But the solar panels, a charge controller and a Lithium battery are not a bad idea if you want to take a 100 watt class battery out in the boonies to get away from RFI.  For that matter if you want to operate for a few hours, you could just take a 20 or 30 amp hour lithium battery all by itself and charge it when you get back home on the AC mains. They are much lighter than a comparable Lead Acid battery and would not be a burden to carry to you picnic table or whatever. So your premise of packing up and going out into the fresh air and RF quiet environment has some merit.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K6BRN on March 15, 2019, 03:51:32 PM
Note that solar charge controllers are switching and also generate RFI, particularly the very inexpensive plastic cased PWM controllers.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K1QQQ on March 15, 2019, 04:33:30 PM
I think my question was partially answered ok.

I have seen the Honda seems to get nice things said by about everybody.


If one sneaks somewhere to run a radio for awhile you sure don't want a bunch of noise..the audible to ears stuff...


I have yet to research the battery options. If you wanted to run 100 watts for a few hours the cost effective way ? (I will be re-reading these threads) Then of coarse how many times you can recharge the battery ? Weight ?


Harbor Freight ? They have some around here now and I think they are good for some small tools without spending a fortune and various gadgets but....

I keep a collection of tools in the trunk of car and all I seem to notice Harbor Freight's seem to like to rust fast/easy.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K4PIH on March 18, 2019, 06:06:57 AM
Quote
a leading test magazine that doesn’t want to be linked to brands — rated the Harbor Freight inverter generators right up there with Honda. A titch louder, a titch uglier, but same job for half the price

Ha ha...ha. ho.ho...  ack ... choke....splutter. (there goes my IPA).

Oh...yeah.  I'm sure that's the case.  Right there with you.  (NOT).  Time to get a new subscription.

You know, Yugos were really very good cars!  Just misunderstood.  (Choke!)



I arrived at a new duty station and had to buy a cheap car. I bought a Yugo from a fellow squadron member. I was either the third or fourth owner, it was one of those cars that hangs around a squadron and gets passed on to new members. Kind of like a pet. I drove that Yugo the entire year I was posted there and it did what it was designed to do. Got me and my family around. Several years before that I bought a brand new ford Mustang and wound up evoking lemon law forcing Ford had to take it back, refund my down payment, and track down my trade in and buy it back from the owner and return it to me.

I also have a Harbor Freight 45k portable generator. It was half the price of a small Honda. The Harbor Freight generator has worked just fine for 5 years now. No issues. 


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K6BRN on March 20, 2019, 04:49:42 PM
Hi Jacquet (K4PIH):

Quote
I arrived at a new duty station and had to buy a cheap car. I bought a Yugo from a fellow squadron member. I was either the third or fourth owner, it was one of those cars that hangs around a squadron and gets passed on to new members. Kind of like a pet. I drove that Yugo the entire year I was posted

I, too had some experience with a Yugo.  It didn't make it out of the driveway very often (I had an uncle who made my dad look rich and thought he was being generous).  Learned a lot about how NOT to build cars from it.  Drove a Chevelle with a 3-speed until the rear axel rusted off.  The fixed it.  Still better than the Yugo.

If you have to make due with Yugos and Harbor Freight junk, I understand.  I grew up as poor as dirt, made a few good decisions, worked hard and have been able to afford quality for quite some time now.

Believe me, it's a MUCH better place to be.

Brian - K6BRN


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: N8AUC on March 21, 2019, 10:11:21 AM
Hi Jacquet (K4PIH):

Quote
I arrived at a new duty station and had to buy a cheap car. I bought a Yugo from a fellow squadron member. I was either the third or fourth owner, it was one of those cars that hangs around a squadron and gets passed on to new members. Kind of like a pet. I drove that Yugo the entire year I was posted

I, too had some experience with a Yugo.  It didn't make it out of the driveway very often (I had an uncle who made my dad look rich and thought he was being generous).  Learned a lot about how NOT to build cars from it.  Drove a Chevelle with a 3-speed until the rear axel rusted off.  The fixed it.  Still better than the Yugo.

If you have to make due with Yugos and Harbor Freight junk, I understand.  I grew up as poor as dirt, made a few good decisions, worked hard and have been able to afford quality for quite some time now.

Believe me, it's a MUCH better place to be.

Brian - K6BRN

We didn't have a whole lot of money when I was growing up, either.
We never went hungry, and always had a roof over our heads. But there wasn't a lot left over.

The first car I could afford, was an old Chevy Nova. It was two tone. Green, and rust. Had a leak above the windshield, right over the drivers seat.
If you weren't careful, you could end up with rust stains on your pants if it rained. Ran best on Valvoline. Added a quart every other fill-up.

Do you know why a Yugo has a rear window defroster? So you could keep your hands warm in the winter while you were pushing it.

I appreciate Harbor Freight for what it is.
I also am grateful that the Yugo didn't exist when I got that old Nova. Because if it had, I'd have been trying to drive one.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K6BRN on March 21, 2019, 11:11:45 AM
John (N8AUC):

Quote
Do you know why a Yugo has a rear window defroster? So you could keep your hands warm in the winter while you were pushing it.

Still laughing over THAT one.  Thanks.  BTW, after a few rounds with the Yugo, you would have gone back to the Nova.  One of my chores was keeping my aunts '65 Chevy II (entry level Nova, sort of) running.  Easy to do.  Lots of room to work (except when the heater core failed) and the straight six was pretty bulletproof.

The old '65 Chevelle (283/2bbl) burned a gallon of oil a week, toward the end.  Probably would go to jail for driving it, today.

Quote
I appreciate Harbor Freight for what it is.

Yes, so do I.  Generally buy tarps, tape measures, vises and misc. non-critical tools.  But have had some bad luck with (for instance) wrenches, which were NOT QUITE the size marked.  So... only quality wrenches in my toolbox, now.  The damage bad wrenches can do to bolts is far more costly than the cost of good wrenches.  Kind of like the damage cheap generators can do to electronics.

Brian - K6BRN


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: KD0REQ on March 24, 2019, 10:07:36 AM
Harbor Freight is good for one-offs, but no professional mechanic will stake his salary potential on them.  I totally get it.  still, if you need a 2-ton hoist once, you save good money

however, if you need a knock-around DVM, the red 6-buck job is hard to beat, especially if you have a free coupon with any other purchase. you don't have the bad feeling you get if you put a fine pro Fluke in ohms position across the power line. and I've found them pretty accurate.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: N8AUC on March 24, 2019, 12:03:24 PM
John (N8AUC):

Quote
Do you know why a Yugo has a rear window defroster? So you could keep your hands warm in the winter while you were pushing it.

Still laughing over THAT one.  Thanks.  BTW, after a few rounds with the Yugo, you would have gone back to the Nova.  One of my chores was keeping my aunts '65 Chevy II (entry level Nova, sort of) running.  Easy to do.  Lots of room to work (except when the heater core failed) and the straight six was pretty bulletproof.

The old '65 Chevelle (283/2bbl) burned a gallon of oil a week, toward the end.  Probably would go to jail for driving it, today.

Quote
I appreciate Harbor Freight for what it is.

Yes, so do I.  Generally buy tarps, tape measures, vises and misc. non-critical tools.  But have had some bad luck with (for instance) wrenches, which were NOT QUITE the size marked.  So... only quality wrenches in my toolbox, now.  The damage bad wrenches can do to bolts is far more costly than the cost of good wrenches.  Kind of like the damage cheap generators can do to electronics.

Brian - K6BRN

Brian,
John is my first name. Eric is my middle name, and what I go by. My friends call me Eric, so please do.

Actually, when someone calls and asks for "John", I immediately know that the caller is not someone who knows me.
Probably a telemarketer. At which point they get "the telemarketer treatment", which varies depending on how annoyed
I am, and how much time I have to mess with them.

Glad you got kick out of the Yugo joke. I've heard lots of them over the years. Like...

What does it take to go from 0-60 in a Yugo? Four tries.

I've known several people who owned a Yugo. After the fact, none of those people have anything positive to say
about them. But they were "inexpensive" to purchase initially. If Harbor Freight sold cars, it would be whatever
the Chinese equivalent of a Yugo would be.

Have you ever seen an engine start on a Lockheed L-1011? As they light off, there is a huge plume of blue
smoke that belches out the back of the engine, which goes away once the engine is running. My old Nova was
kind of like that. When you started it, there was a plume of blue smoke out the back. Which is probably where all
the oil went. You didn't see that once it was running though. It had a 305 V8 in it. My girlfriend liked it though,
because she could slide over and ride in the middle of the front bench seat.  It's tough to do that in modern cars
because most have a center console where the shift lever is. The old Nova had the shift lever on the steering
column.



Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: SOFAR on March 24, 2019, 12:15:53 PM
Blue smoke on start-up, is oil leaking passed valve guide seals, accumulating in the cylinder after sitting.

Blue smoke while running, would be worn piston rings.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K6BRN on March 27, 2019, 08:36:24 PM
John:

Sorry about the name mix-up. 

FB on the Yugo, Nova and girlfriend.

The Lockheed L-1011 was my favorite plane back in the early '80's.  Used to take it coast to coast on "night-flight super-savers"  A massive airplane, mostly empty at night - what was it? - 7 across in the middle row, ideal for a good night's sleep.  Gone now.

Regarding oil use and smoke after starting up... the old small block V8s used a small rubber oil seal just above the valve guide that was simple to replace if you had a valve spring compressor and spring key.  Which I did to my old '65 Chevelle's 283 V8.  But it still used oil and smoked a great deal.  So I popped the head off to look in the cylinders.  Cylinders were clean as a whistle and as true as an hourglass, which is a good description of the shape they had.  The pistons would actually flop around a bit when I put hand pressure on them.  Did not give up on that car until the real axle fell off for the 2nd time.  Just added gas, oil and it went.

Brian - K6BRN


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: W4FID on April 03, 2019, 03:18:46 AM
Any of the generators you're considering or a solar panel big enough with a battery big enough to run a 100 watts fig for several hours are beyond what you can transport to a remote location without a car. If the car already has an HF radio in it you're all set. I have an IC-7000 in my Honda CR-V. A medium size car at best -- not a full size pick up or SUV by any measure. It's a clean installation. It's velcro "anchored" under the passenger seat and the control box is on the dashboard.  Safe to operate. Not in the way of my XYL's legs or knees. Use a 3 magnet mount on the roof and have hamsticks for 75-40-20. Total cost is in the same range as a Honda generator or nice solar panels and large LiON battery. I can sit in the car at an RV park or even in my drive at home and operate the same as if I was on a picnic table someplace. And I enjoy HF on longer road trips like on my way to Dayton.


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: N8AUC on April 03, 2019, 10:02:42 AM
Any of the generators you're considering or a solar panel big enough with a battery big enough to run a 100 watts fig for several hours are beyond what you can transport to a remote location without a car. If the car already has an HF radio in it you're all set. I have an IC-7000 in my Honda CR-V. A medium size car at best -- not a full size pick up or SUV by any measure. It's a clean installation. It's velcro "anchored" under the passenger seat and the control box is on the dashboard.  Safe to operate. Not in the way of my XYL's legs or knees. Use a 3 magnet mount on the roof and have hamsticks for 75-40-20. Total cost is in the same range as a Honda generator or nice solar panels and large LiON battery. I can sit in the car at an RV park or even in my drive at home and operate the same as if I was on a picnic table someplace. And I enjoy HF on longer road trips like on my way to Dayton.

You need to check out the work of Julian, OH8STN.

A homebuilt LiFePO4 battery pack complete with BMS and a Genasun charge controller, and a 120w foldable solar panel allows him to operate an FT-891
at 100 watts, and he carries the whole thing on foot out into the wilderness several kilometers to operate. Even in the winter.

I am truly impressed with what he does, and how he does it.

And for the record, I'm not a fan of operating outdoors in the winter. But he shows it can be done, and how to do it.
He's also doing it in Finland, which in the winter makes NE Ohio look almost tropical in comparison.

Check his website out at OH8STN.org. He also has a bunch of YouTube videos to show how he does it.

73 de N8AUC
Eric



Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: K0UA on April 06, 2019, 10:41:58 PM
Quote
Any of the generators you're considering or a solar panel big enough with a battery big enough to run a 100 watts fig for several hours are beyond what you can transport to a remote location without a car

That used to be true, but not so anymore. Not since LiFePO4 batteries.  The battery alone is enough to operate a 100 watt rig for several hours.

Check out the duty cycle charts:

https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries-for-communication-equipment-ham-radio


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: NQ3M on April 08, 2019, 05:16:43 PM
Set a Honda an Harbor freight generator side by side, running at no load. Fire up at least a 2 channel 100MGz or better O scope, an look at both sine waves, than load them up with the same none linear load an look again. Some people will hook up a $2K + load to a unknown generator, yet others look before the leap. If your looking for some more fun look at the wave form of a gen-a-junk, or what others call junk-a-rack. For a fun afternoon, test them all with a Spectrum Analyzer, running a none linear, an linear load.   


Title: RE: Generator-HONDA
Post by: WA2ONH on April 15, 2019, 08:31:51 AM
From the ARRL web site...
Honda Portable Generators Recalled Due to Potential Fire Hazard 04/15/2019
http://www.arrl.org/news/honda-portable-generators-recalled-due-to-potential-fire-hazard

"American Honda has announced that it’s voluntarily recalling some 200,000 of its portable generators sold in the US due to a potential fire and burn hazard. The recall includes the EU2200i, EU2200i Companion, and EB2200i generators. The US Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) says the affected portable generators can leak gasoline from the fuel valve. Users should stop operating the recalled generator and contact an authorized Honda dealer for a free repair. Honda is also contacting users directly. For more information, visit the CPSC website. A similar recall has been issued in Canada."

CPSC Site: https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2019/american-honda-recalls-portable-generators-due-to-fire-and-burn-hazards