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eHam Forums => Software Defined Radio => Topic started by: W6UV on May 10, 2019, 07:55:31 AM



Title: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W6UV on May 10, 2019, 07:55:31 AM
For those who care about such things, Rob Sherwood posted the test results for the Yaesu FTdx-101D on his site at it tops the list.

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 10, 2019, 08:50:58 AM
For those who care about such things, Rob Sherwood posted the test results for the Yaesu FTdx-101D

Personally I have never used Sherwoods List to determine what radio I should buy.

However the Flexradio (and Elecraft) Lovers egos just got bruised.  ;) :D

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W6UV on May 10, 2019, 08:59:36 AM
Personally I have never used Sherwoods List to determine what radio I should buy.

Neither have I, but my initial reaction was the same as yours: this is going to take the Flex fanbois down a notch or two.  :D


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 10, 2019, 10:24:49 AM
my initial reaction was the same as yours: this is going to take the Flex fanbois down a notch or two.  :D

It is going to do more than that IMO. There are many hams who think the Sherwood list is some kinda holy grail and will buy the Top O' The List just for bragging rites. Yeah I misspelled rights on purpose.....

This does not bode well for Flexradio who has enjoyed the Top O' The List for years. It IS gonna cost them sales. Just like the Icom 7300 cost Flexradio many SDR sales.

Since the Yaesu FTDX 101D is not a true 100% SDR but a hybrid, this will hurt Flex Lover egos even more. I suspect that Flexradio has had its day in the sun. Bleak times ahead for Flexers, time to dump that Flexradio Jerry and upgrade your FT-5000.   ;D

Flexradio no longer rules SDRs and is no longer Top O' The List

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 10, 2019, 10:54:33 AM
Good for Yaesu, something had to give cause the trench Motorola placed Yaesu in for years was not fairing too well for them. It would be interesting to see the full lab number on this new puppy and maybe a full ARRL lab report as well before I sell off my 7610 plus see how the radio fairs as far as reliability goes.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 10, 2019, 11:02:47 AM
The Flex guys will not be selling off there radio's anytime soon cause nothing does remote operational control as easy as the Flex does, they are just down rite flexible plus they do have very good performance. The Icom user's are second runner up when it comes to the remote ability but there down side is there software is a real PITA for bout half the user's out there, once working it works well but no I phone connectivity and if Icom cared about that sector of the market they would spend some R&D into an easier software that was more plug n play. The Kenwood is kind of like the 590SG was, maybe slightly easier than the Icom but just never really had taken off cause I hear allot more Icom's doing remote then Kenwood but the Yaesu I have no idea if they have any plans at all and leave it seem up to some third party botch job.
The Yaesu does have more button which is nice but its all in how easily it is to operate!


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 10, 2019, 11:19:07 AM
Not only did the birth of the 7300 cost Flex sales but Icom has been kicking but on Elecraft since the 7300 came out, yes the K3 has better numbers but between being one of the ugliest radios in the marketplace and being a real PITA to use then here comes the 7300, decent performance, full spectrum/waterfall display and ease of use all for around a kilobuck, Icom spanked Elecraft all the way to the bank on this one. They did what the original K3 did when it first came out but for less money.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W6UV on May 10, 2019, 11:19:52 AM
The Flex guys will not be selling off there radio's anytime soon cause nothing does remote operational control as easy as the Flex does

I have zero interest in remote operation (and I suspect most hams fall into this category). I'm looking for performance and ergonomics.

The thing that bothers me about Yaesu, however, is their infrequent FW updates and their handling of issues with their rigs (for example, the issues with the OLED subdisplays on the FTdx-5000).


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K7JQ on May 10, 2019, 12:01:10 PM
Looks like +1 for Yaesu in topping the Sherwood list, for those who care. That ranking might let the FTDX-101D maintain its initial price point of approximately $4,000, without the usual big drop after it's been out for a while, as other manufacturers commonly do. What remains to be seen is its ergonomic usability and reliability. Lots of eye-candy on this one. I agree, remote operation is a niche market feature.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 10, 2019, 02:00:23 PM
The main reason Icom came out with remote software was not to compete with Flex but for computer rig control in the first place, then once that had developed that it grew from that point on and I think with Flex it was something they developed early on cause there radio's need a computer to work in the first place so making the remote ability was an easy fix. Its not the main selling point with the Icom but hams do use the software and with the 7610 there is no need for a computer at the radio end cause it has a built in server for this but need at the other end for control. There is no mention if the Yaesu will have any of this built in so I would assume you must use some aftermarket jury rig device.
Yaesu being on the top of Sherwoods list is a + for them but almost every company with a new rig has its growing pains but I hope Yaesu changes how there firmware is loaded onto the radio cause the 5000 and 3000 were a real PITA were the Icom was a walk in the park.
I think the next Icom rig might be a surprise as far as price range and ability but its maybe two years away but I will say that this new Yaesu will really hurt the Kenwood 890S cause if the numbers are this good Kenwoods statement radio just ran out of steam, it clearly is no as good of an investment when looking at the playing field today.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K7FD on May 10, 2019, 02:08:45 PM
The Sherwood ranking right before Dayton is sure to put pep in the step of Yaesu. That said, I made my purchase prior to any ranking. I just liked the looks of the rig in the ads I saw. I was a sucker for good marketing. But it appears I made lucky choice! So far, so good...

If you haven't downloaded the nice glossy brochure for the FTdx101D off yaesu.com, you should. Lots of interesting info in there...

73 John K7FD


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 10, 2019, 04:05:37 PM
I will say that this new Yaesu will really hurt the Kenwood 890S cause if the numbers are this good Kenwoods statement radio just ran out of steam, it clearly is no as good of an investment when looking at the playing field today.

I will say the Icom 7610 statement radio just ran outta steam too as the 7610 is rated under the TS-890S. On top of that the 7610 screen issue is making MANY prospective buyers pause. Gotta wonder if all those 7610s in the dealers warehouse have the new screens OR not. Icom won't say and buyers are sayin I will just wait. And along comes the new kid on the block named FTDX101D and all those prospective Icom 7610 buyers (like K9IUQ)  are saying WHOA, glad I waited.

Used Icom 7610's are going to be more common than 7300s on the used market..
Damn, there goes your investment in the 7610,
Since when are hamradios investments?
LMAO

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K7JQ on May 10, 2019, 05:38:51 PM

Used Icom 7610's are going to be more common than 7300s on the used market..
Damn, there goes your investment in the 7610,
Since when are hamradios investments?
LMAO

Stan K9IUQ



I doubt it. Agreed, the screen issue will make people pause until it's definitely resolved. But a 7610 is still $1K cheaper, and not too shabby on its own.
Investments? No. But before the IC-7300 came out and killed the value of prior upper tier radios, resale prices weren't that bad for popular rigs.

Bob K7JQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: VA3VF on May 10, 2019, 05:45:38 PM
Quote
However the Flexradio (and Elecraft) Lovers egos just got bruised.  ;) :D
How true. Lots of grinding teeth and sobbing tonight. ;)


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N8FNR on May 10, 2019, 07:30:14 PM
my initial reaction was the same as yours: this is going to take the Flex fanbois down a notch or two.  :D

It is going to do more than that IMO. There are many hams who think the Sherwood list is some kinda holy grail and will buy the Top O' The List just for bragging rites. Yeah I misspelled rights on purpose.....

This does not bode well for Flexradio who has enjoyed the Top O' The List for years. It IS gonna cost them sales. Just like the Icom 7300 cost Flexradio many SDR sales.

Since the Yaesu FTDX 101D is not a true 100% SDR but a hybrid, this will hurt Flex Lover egos even more. I suspect that Flexradio has had its day in the sun. Bleak times ahead for Flexers, time to dump that Flexradio Jerry and upgrade your FT-5000.   ;D

Flexradio no longer rules SDRs and is no longer Top O' The List

Stan K9IUQ

Buy whatever you want. I am sure that the Yaesu is a great rig but I don't care what you own. I have never understood why you have a personal vendetta against Flex. This has gone on for years. A normal person would have moved on long ago.

Not like this is a Ford vs Chevy thing: https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2019/05/01/ford-chevy-shooting-virginia/3637905002/


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N8FNR on May 10, 2019, 07:36:47 PM
The Flex guys will not be selling off there radio's anytime soon cause nothing does remote operational control as easy as the Flex does

I have zero interest in remote operation (and I suspect most hams fall into this category). I'm looking for performance and ergonomics.


I use my Flex-6400 all of the time from a laptop in my living room and have 100% of the functionality as of I was in front of my rig. I can remotely control the rig, my KPA500, my Steppir and select 2 different 2 TX and 1 RX antenna. There is no downside to this. I thought that remote operation would be of no use to me but now I use it 90% of the time.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K6JH on May 10, 2019, 07:39:36 PM
The Flex guys will not be selling off there radio's anytime soon cause nothing does remote operational control as easy as the Flex does, they are just down rite flexible plus they do have very good performance. The Icom user's are second runner up when it comes to the remote ability but there down side is there software is a real PITA for bout half the user's out there, once working it works well but no I phone connectivity and if Icom cared about that sector of the market they would spend some R&D into an easier software that was more plug n play. The Kenwood is kind of like the 590SG was, maybe slightly easier than the Icom but just never really had taken off cause I hear allot more Icom's doing remote then Kenwood but the Yaesu I have no idea if they have any plans at all and leave it seem up to some third party botch job.
The Yaesu does have more button which is nice but its all in how easily it is to operate!


Per the "FTDX Series Catalog" brochure Yaesu is planning a special adapter to connect the FTdx-101D to a LAN, and the internet. And it also shows PC remote control software.

Of course it remains to be seen when, if ever, Yaesu will come through - and at what price. But with the amount of effort put into the rest of the radio I'd be surprised if it wasn't a high priority. Time will tell whether the protocol is open enough to allow third party remote SW vendors in, like for Ipads, or IOS or Android phones.

It would have been nicer if they had built-in a lan jack and server software, but at least there is a pathway.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N8FNR on May 10, 2019, 07:44:44 PM
Quote
However the Flexradio (and Elecraft) Lovers egos just got bruised.  ;) :D
How true. Lots of grinding teeth and sobbing tonight. ;)

So now I need to sell my Flex-6400 because the Yaesu has a RX that is a bit better? I am sure that the Yaesu is a great rig but this is so delusional. I would never go back to an old fashioned knob based rig. Right now I am using my 6400 from a laptop in my living room and can control my KPA500, a SteppIR and pick 2 different TX antennas and use an RX antenna, That sounds terrible. How can I get by with those limitations?


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N8FNR on May 10, 2019, 07:56:02 PM
Personally I have never used Sherwoods List to determine what radio I should buy.

Neither have I, but my initial reaction was the same as yours: this is going to take the Flex fanbois down a notch or two.  :D

Isn't that also going to take the Kenwood and Elecraft users down a few notches? Why not gloat about that to? Don't that need to sell theit rigs too now?


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: VA3VF on May 10, 2019, 08:14:12 PM
This is the kind of reaction that gives rise to all the jokes.

There are 'fanatics' for every brand, but some seem to have more than others. Ten-Tec used to be the main one, replaced by Elecraft and Flex.

I really do not understand why some people take these things so seriously. ::)

The jokes are in the FTdx thread, not in the Elecraft or Flex threads. Talk about looking to be 'offended'. :o

By the way, my last two radios have been Icom. Criticize and joke all you want about it, I'll be sound asleep. ;D


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K6BRN on May 10, 2019, 08:51:40 PM
Yes.  Well.  Very nice that the Yaesu engineers have come up with an approach that leverages the best of both worlds.  Bravo!  As far as "being better than Flex".  Ummmm.  Who cares?  I mean, aren't ANY of these radios overkill for most (99.99%) operating.  Especially on FT8 and its new brother, FT4.

So... let's see what users say about how much FUN the FTDX-101D is (and the 200W version to follow).  That performance metric is not really on Sherwod's list. Once the early adopters debug the radio, I may take a closer look at it.  Just because I love toys, and well, an FTDX-101D would be a new toy.  In my use, I doubt its performance difference will be in any way discernable from the FTDX-3000 and FT-991s I'm already using.

The biggest benefits of the IC-7300, and what has KEPT it so popular, is #1 Ease of use.  It's intuitive, and #2 Price:  low.  The IC-7610 was hyped up to the max and had less of both.  Now its selling used for WAY less than its intro price.  Lots easier to sell an IC7300 than an IC-7610.

So... let's see what the FTDX-101D delivers - fun or frustration.

Either way - competition is GOOD!

Brian - K6BRN


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: VA3VF on May 10, 2019, 09:32:46 PM
Quote
I mean, aren't ANY of these radios overkill for most (99.99%) operating.
If one is short one entity for induction into the DXCC Honor Roll, switches on the Elecraft: nothing. Then switches on the Flex, and works that last entity, then maybe there was a tangible difference.

For most operating, and users, it's just the radio equivalent of the 'blue pill'. ;D

If any of these radios can effectively neutralize tinnitus, I'll recant. ;)


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 10, 2019, 10:15:20 PM

Personally I have never used Sherwoods List to determine what radio I should buy.

Yes, we agree on that.  But he does good testing and good work on his list.

Quote
However the Flexradio (and Elecraft) Lovers egos just got bruised.  ;) :D
Stan K9IUQ

Not hardly.   I like my Flex, and I like my Icom and I like my Elecraft.
They are all nice radios,  but not my  "identity" or my "life" :-)

Cheers,

Neal


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 10, 2019, 10:23:24 PM
my initial reaction was the same as yours: this is going to take the Flex fanbois down a notch or two.  :D

It is going to do more than that IMO. There are many hams who think the Sherwood list is some kinda holy grail and will buy the Top O' The List just for bragging rites. Yeah I misspelled rights on purpose.....

This does not bode well for Flexradio who has enjoyed the Top O' The List for years. It IS gonna cost them sales. Just like the Icom 7300 cost Flexradio many SDR sales.

Since the Yaesu FTDX 101D is not a true 100% SDR but a hybrid, this will hurt Flex Lover egos even more. I suspect that Flexradio has had its day in the sun. Bleak times ahead for Flexers, time to dump that Flexradio Jerry and upgrade your FT-5000.   ;D

Flexradio no longer rules SDRs and is no longer Top O' The List

Stan K9IUQ


Yes, indeed.
Free Market Competition is a great thing for customers.   It was only obvious that the other vendors would
take notice and eventually leap-frog with new product ideas.   That is good for everyone and keeps
innovation alive.  Each vendor will always try to leap forward from the pack with each new product cycle.

So we finally have a second one of the "big three" releasing an SDR product. (It still counts, even as a hybrid).
The remaining mystery is;  Does HF life exist inside Kenwood HQ?   Or is Kenwood taking a break from
HF until Sunspots come back?  Or perhaps they can't hire SDR engineers?

Neal


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 10, 2019, 10:29:05 PM
The Flex guys will not be selling off there radio's anytime soon cause nothing does remote operational control as easy as the Flex does

I have zero interest in remote operation (and I suspect most hams fall into this category). I'm looking for performance and ergonomics.

The thing that bothers me about Yaesu, however, is their infrequent FW updates and their handling of issues with their rigs (for example, the issues with the OLED subdisplays on the FTdx-5000).

Like I said;  Will not be selling my Flex any time soon :-)
And, the Flex HW has more than enough speed/power/capacity to hold a larger software load.
So they can "make a new radio" when they get better at adding features and fixes to the software.
Being a pure SDR, you don't really need new HW, you just need half a dozen new software updates.
[Which they do approx every 3 to 5 months, more often than my Icom gets them, and more
often than my previous Yaesu got them.

Neal


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 10, 2019, 10:33:09 PM
I will say that this new Yaesu will really hurt the Kenwood 890S cause if the numbers are this good Kenwoods statement radio just ran out of steam, it clearly is no as good of an investment when looking at the playing field today.

I will say the Icom 7610 statement radio just ran outta steam too as the 7610 is rated under the TS-890S. On top of that the 7610 screen issue is making MANY prospective buyers pause. Gotta wonder if all those 7610s in the dealers warehouse have the new screens OR not. Icom won't say and buyers are sayin I will just wait. And along comes the new kid on the block named FTDX101D and all those prospective Icom 7610 buyers (like K9IUQ)  are saying WHOA, glad I waited.

Used Icom 7610's are going to be more common than 7300s on the used market..
Damn, there goes your investment in the 7610,
Since when are hamradios investments?
LMAO

Stan K9IUQ



In fairness, it is too early to know.  What if Yaesu is buying their screens from the same factory as Icom.
Neither one of them is an LCD maker, they buy them from some third party.  Any radio maker could
have been bit by that one.

Neal


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 10, 2019, 10:37:46 PM
Personally I have never used Sherwoods List to determine what radio I should buy.

Neither have I, but my initial reaction was the same as yours: this is going to take the Flex fanbois down a notch or two.  :D

Isn't that also going to take the Kenwood and Elecraft users down a few notches? Why not gloat about that to? Don't that need to sell theit rigs too now?

Because Stan has no bone to pick with Kenwood and Elecraft, but "runs a mighty and furious anti-Flex Jihad"
like his life depends on it.  But surely you already knew that?  Everyone on eHam does...
It's almost like Flex did terrible unspeakable things to Stan when he was a small child :-)

By the way;  The Yaesu looks like a fine rig.    Good work there...


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N5PG on May 10, 2019, 10:39:00 PM
Good for Yaesu, something had to give cause the trench Motorola placed Yaesu in for years was not fairing too well for them. It would be interesting to see the full lab number on this new puppy and maybe a full ARRL lab report as well before I sell off my 7610 plus see how the radio fairs as far as reliability goes.

I'm told the next QST has report on this new Yaesu :)


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W6UV on May 10, 2019, 10:49:33 PM
I use my Flex-6400 all of the time from a laptop in my living room and have 100% of the functionality as of I was in front of my rig. I can remotely control the rig, my KPA500, my Steppir and select 2 different 2 TX and 1 RX antenna. There is no downside to this. I thought that remote operation would be of no use to me but now I use it 90% of the time.

Whatever floats your boat... I go down to my shack to get away from the hustle and bustle upstairs. I don't want to mix ham radio and other activities.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W6UV on May 10, 2019, 10:53:27 PM
I'm told the next QST has report on this new Yaesu :)

Nope. The report is on the new Kenwood.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 11, 2019, 04:02:33 AM
Buy whatever you want. I am sure that the Yaesu is a great rig but I don't care what you own. I have never understood why you have a personal vendetta against Flex. This has gone on for years. A normal person would have moved on long ago.

Who said I was normal?  :D :D

I am as normal as the Flexlovers in this thread trying mightily to defend their beloved radios.

WOW did the Flexlovers get stirred up. Especially N8FNR...

Because Stan has no bone to pick with Kenwood and Elecraft, but "runs a mighty and furious anti-Flex Jihad"
like his life depends on it.  

Why bother when Kenwood fans are not rabid and Elecraft fans  could care less. Flex Lovers OTOH have to defend their beloved radios. I think it is written in the Flexradio Code of Honor that Flexers have to sign when they buy a Flex radio.  ;)

I go down to my shack to get away from the hustle and bustle upstairs. I don't want to mix ham radio and other activities.

BINGO, I swear some of these Flex Lovers do remote radio at the Supper Table and in bed at night.  :D

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K6BRN on May 11, 2019, 08:30:37 AM
Stan (K9IUQ):

Quote
Who said I was normal?  Cheesy Cheesy

I'll settle for just "Not destructive."

There are "Fanboys" of all sorts of things, from politicians to cars and radios.  Flip the sign bit and you get an "Anti-Fanboy", which is apparently what you are for FlexRadio.  I get it.  So does everyone else.  Message received.

I hope that being an "Anti-Fanboy" pays well,  because otherwise there is "no percentage in it"

It's just a radio, like any other.  So many preferences in life are personal and harmless, whether of not they work for you.  Is it REALLY necessary to bash someone elses preference and belittle them because of it?

Too many losers on the forums already are doing that kind of bullying.  And that's exactly what it is.  The group here seems to understand and know YOUR preferences, and the thread is about the new Yaesu FTDX-101D, anyway, not Flex.

My advice:  Let it go.

Regarding the Yaesu FTDX-101D, it simply moves the IF in a digital signal processing radio one step away from the antenna, from the perspective of the IC-7300/IC-7610/Flex approach.  High IF sampling (9 MHz?).  The FTDX-3000, -1200, FT-991 and many other radios also use DSP systems, but at Low IF, just above audio.

High IF sampling is SOP in higher frequency DSP "radios" and has been for a very long time, in the commercial market.

Each of these blends have the ability to excel.  High IFsampling leverages the dynamic range, often gentler compression effects and lower cost of analog down conversion, especially at higher frequencies, to (relatively) precisely control the center frequency and noise/signal bandwidth the ADC "sees" and dynamic range it has to handle, which allows a great deal of optimization of the ADC through digital  sampling chain.  Lots of advantages, if it's done right.  Seems like Yaesu might have "done it right".

Good to see amateur radio makers are looking at this from all angles.  Competition is GOOD.

Brian - K6BRN


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N0YXB on May 11, 2019, 08:51:31 AM

Good to see amateur radio makers are looking at this from all angles.  Competition is GOOD.

Indeed! We all benefit whether we buy a Flex, or a Yaesu, or an Elecraft, or an Icom, etc...


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 11, 2019, 11:03:21 AM
Stan (K9IUQ):
My advice:  Let it go.


The Flex Lovers need to let it go. I KNOW that all I have to do is mention Flexradio in a post and the Flex Lovers come outta the woodwork to defend. Just look at this thread. Pitiful actually that the Flex Lovers are so Rabid about any discussion that does not show their beloved radios to be superior.  I find it hilarious.

My Advice: Don't give advice, especially on  the internet.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W4HIJ on May 11, 2019, 11:39:30 AM
Just have to say, after my experience with an FT-991, you couldn't pay me to take a Yaesu from you, no matter the specs. When will hams quit drinking the Japanese Kool-Aid? As for Flex, they've priced themselves out of my meager radio budget and I no longer own one although I sure enjoyed them when I did. 1500 had a better receiver than rice boxes costing twice to three times as much. These days I prowl the bands with a little Hobby PCB RS-HFIQ, still with mouse tuning and all.  It's the 21st century, when will hams get over sitting around playing with their "knobs" all day? ;) :D
Michael, W4HIJ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: AC7CW on May 11, 2019, 04:18:53 PM
Yaesu points the way: Passive filter ahead of the R.F. stage, state of the art mixer[apparently] and dds, and direct sampling of the first I.F. Their offering is at the top of Sherwood's list without sacrificing general coverage, not to forget to mention that op's like the 3D display. Kudos to Yaesu!!


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: ZENKI on May 11, 2019, 04:19:12 PM
 Top on the chart for receiver performance and transmitter performance  that has such low phase noise performance you could probably use it as signal general to test other radios.

But what about the transmitter IMD performance. Yaesu does not publish a specifications so that probably means that they ashamed of the figure hence they dont publish it. If there was a transmitter performance chart most of the top rated receiver radios would be on the bottom of this imaginary chart.

Maybe ham radio manufacturers need to refer to far eastern philosophy and start studying some Yin and Yang engineering balance and maybe one day they will realize that the duality of receiver and transmitter design is an indivisible whole whose performance cant be separated. I think think thats  lesson 1  in 1st year communications engineering. I wonder why  some try and make their own engineering  rules by producing radios with rubbish transmitters?

Sherwood needs to produce a transmitter performance chart to give a complete picture. It would not take much effort to include transmitter IMD performance that  covers  IMD products beyond the 9th order that causes much of the splatter we hear today. A simple way to do it is to measure the IMD product at 5,10,15 and 20khz  under voice conditions. Its easy to spot the radios with horrible IMD performance. Many SDR radios have excellent 3rd order IMD but their IMD products are horrible past 5 or 10KHZ spacing.

Yaesu needs to be congratulated for taking receiver performance to levels that most hams will never need. They have almost produced a laboratory grade receiver.  Its great to see that Kenwood and Yaesu have utilized and adopted many of the excellent receiver design techniques by hams such as PA3AKE who did a lot of good  work on producing the ultimate receiver. Lets hope that future work will concentrate on transmitter performance.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: ZENKI on May 11, 2019, 04:29:16 PM
With a clean Transmitter and a calibrated S-meter it would have been a perfect radio.

The Japanese dont seem to want to understand the point that the big advantage of the SDR direct sampling platform that producing a radio with a calibrated S-meter  is something that is very easy to do. A good example is the Icom IC7610, I wonder what was so hard to put in 5 lines of code  to make sure that the S-meter was accurate?

Many hams cant seems to comprehend why a calibrated s-meter is so useful today. With direct sampling receivers it would be very easy to measure and quantify  illegal radiated sources and report these with great accuracy. It would easy for manufacturers to define a 9khz EMC filter bandwidth while providing a quasi peak meter in a menu option. These levels could be reported   when used with a suitable active antenna such as a vertical  or loop.  Hams have always been about exploiting what technology has to offer, burying this technology because so  many hams dont understand the science is not good enough reason to do so.

Yaesu points the way: Passive filter ahead of the R.F. stage, state of the art mixer[apparently] and dds, and direct sampling of the first I.F. Their offering is at the top of Sherwood's list without sacrificing general coverage, not to forget to mention that op's like the 3D display. Kudos to Yaesu!!


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: AC7CW on May 11, 2019, 04:46:29 PM
With a clean Transmitter and a calibrated S-meter it would have been a perfect radio.

The Japanese dont seem to want to understand the point that the big advantage of the SDR direct sampling platform that producing a radio with a calibrated S-meter  is something that is very easy to do. A good example is the Icom IC7610, I wonder what was so hard to put in 5 lines of code  to make sure that the S-meter was accurate?

Many hams cant seems to comprehend why a calibrated s-meter is so useful today. With direct sampling receivers it would be very easy to measure and quantify  illegal radiated sources and report these with great accuracy. It would easy for manufacturers to define a 9khz EMC filter bandwidth while providing a quasi peak meter in a menu option. These levels could be reported   when used with a suitable active antenna such as a vertical  or loop.  Hams have always been about exploiting what technology has to offer, burying this technology because so  many hams dont understand the science is not good enough reason to do so.

Yaesu points the way: Passive filter ahead of the R.F. stage, state of the art mixer[apparently] and dds, and direct sampling of the first I.F. Their offering is at the top of Sherwood's list without sacrificing general coverage, not to forget to mention that op's like the 3D display. Kudos to Yaesu!!

My first rig didn't have an S meter. I guess I'd really like to have the Yaesu with no S meter. S meters are distracting. Call me a radio minimalist...


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K6BRN on May 11, 2019, 11:08:33 PM
Wow!  Almost like stepping into Arkham.

Quote
Pitiful actually that the Flex Lovers are so Rabid about any discussion that does not show their beloved radios to be superior.  I find it hilarious.

Ummm.  Stan... we were talking about the Yaesu FTDX-101D, not FlexRadio, except perhaps as a comparison point.  So, I don't think anyone really cares.

Quote
Yaesu does not publish a specifications so that probably means that they ashamed of the figure hence they dont publish it. If there was a transmitter performance chart most of the top rated receiver radios would be on the bottom of this imaginary chart.

Well, Zenki, you hide your identity behind an alias, and a lot can be read into that, too.  Does THAT mean you're up to something BAD?  Try looking on the bright side for a change.  You just might cheer up.
 
Quote
When will hams quit drinking the Japanese Kool-Aid? As for Flex, they've priced themselves out of my meager radio budget and I no longer own one although I sure enjoyed them when I did. 1500 had a better receiver than rice boxes costing twice to three times as much. These days I prowl the bands with a little Hobby PCB RS-HFIQ, still with mouse tuning and all.  It's the 21st century, when will hams get over sitting around playing with their "knobs" all day

Sorry to hear about the FT-991.  Must have been bad and very disappointing.  But there are a LOT of Japanese radios out there and most work just fine, including my two FT-991s.  I did hear the early ones has a defect that caused the finals to fail.  Does not seem to have happened for quite some time, though.

Brian - K6BRN


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: VK3BL on May 12, 2019, 03:12:42 AM
Top on the chart for receiver performance and transmitter performance  that has such low phase noise performance you could probably use it as signal general to test other radios.

But what about the transmitter IMD performance. Yaesu does not publish a specifications so that probably means that they ashamed of the figure hence they dont publish it. If there was a transmitter performance chart most of the top rated receiver radios would be on the bottom of this imaginary chart.

Maybe ham radio manufacturers need to refer to far eastern philosophy and start studying some Yin and Yang engineering balance and maybe one day they will realize that the duality of receiver and transmitter design is an indivisible whole whose performance cant be separated. I think think thats  lesson 1  in 1st year communications engineering. I wonder why  some try and make their own engineering  rules by producing radios with rubbish transmitters?

Sherwood needs to produce a transmitter performance chart to give a complete picture. It would not take much effort to include transmitter IMD performance that  covers  IMD products beyond the 9th order that causes much of the splatter we hear today. A simple way to do it is to measure the IMD product at 5,10,15 and 20khz  under voice conditions. Its easy to spot the radios with horrible IMD performance. Many SDR radios have excellent 3rd order IMD but their IMD products are horrible past 5 or 10KHZ spacing.

Yaesu needs to be congratulated for taking receiver performance to levels that most hams will never need. They have almost produced a laboratory grade receiver.  Its great to see that Kenwood and Yaesu have utilized and adopted many of the excellent receiver design techniques by hams such as PA3AKE who did a lot of good  work on producing the ultimate receiver. Lets hope that future work will concentrate on transmitter performance.

I suspect the FTdx101MP 200w version with its 50v VRF150 finals (and hopefully Class A mode) will keep you happy in that regard.



Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: VK6HP on May 12, 2019, 04:28:39 AM
We can hope for better things but I see one Yaesu brochure says -31 dB third-order for both the 100W and 200W versions, on 20m.  An asterisk note says "PEP".  Surely they don't mean -31 dB wrt to PEP, or -25 dB wrt to tone? That would be a real disgrace.  (I'll bring my FTDX560 and its sweep tubes out of retirement if that's the case!).

Let's hope the brochure is not reflective of reality.

Anyway, my TS-890S arrives tomorrow so it's strictly academic for me, for the foreseeable future at least.

73, Peter.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W9IQ on May 12, 2019, 05:21:56 AM
Quote
The Japanese dont seem to want to understand the point that the big advantage of the SDR direct sampling platform that producing a radio with a calibrated S-meter  is something that is very easy to do. A good example is the Icom IC7610, I wonder what was so hard to put in 5 lines of code  to make sure that the S-meter was accurate?

I find it disingenuous for someone to preach about the adherence to standards when the preacher cannot be bothered to follow basic grammatical standards.

- Glenn W9IQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W4HIJ on May 12, 2019, 06:06:56 AM
FT-DX101D...3,995.00 delivered to your door. Japanese radios are great when you get up into that price range. Great receivers, comfortable to listen to. Problem is anything in the 1000 to 2000 dollar range where the receivers are crap. That's the Japanese Kool-Aid. They could produce better RX in the lower price ranges but they don't have too because hams keep buying their crap. "Thank you sir, may I have another" Personally, I've never cared for Icom and hell will freeze over before I buy another Yaesu so that leaves Kenwood which is what I mostly bought back in the day but even they produced some real turkeys like the TS-2000.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 12, 2019, 06:36:21 AM
I almost have to agree with Zenki on the IMD issue with Yaesu, back 20 years ago most all rigs had the same IMD performance which was that they all had taken up between 4 to 5 Khz and that back then was clean, these 20 year old radio's stick out like you would not believe in the DX window on 75 meters. Today's radio is a little cleaner like the Flex and Icom SDR types, maybe 3Khz at best and the slide rule goes to the Anan but even the FTDX5000 and 3000 still hearken back to the way most radio's were back 20 years ago. The IMD issue was never Yaesu's finer points, yes you could run class a on some of the bigger rigs but there ALC circuit design was designed to make the radio have more punch at the expense of IMD so unless you babied that control most of these Yaesu rigs could get nasty very fast. With the new radio we have no idea until enough get out on the air but this is one area the newer SDR rigs have a cleaner platform.
I was never taken by the Icom radio's when they first came out with the fish finder, I always thought you were giving up something in the RX side cause your paying for that screen but today the fish finder is a must have it seems but even after the rigs like the ProIII or even the 7600 I was not impressed but along came the 7300 which sells for around $1K with an above average RX and it sounds good well Icom hit there first Home Run. There 7610 was even better which today you have radio's that are SDR designs with knobs, Flex never figured that would be the case until Icom beat there sales figures of the 7300 into there stubborn heads.
I an glad to see Yaesu finally get back in the game though but transmitter IMD will be closely watched on this $4000 box cause most all of these newer rigs have a more than good enough RX but the proof is in a clean TX.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N2DTS on May 12, 2019, 08:06:51 AM
A worse rig to operate then the FT-991 I never had or heard of.

Fish finders are great if you want to catch fish.
I find them a must have to find signals on big empty bands, or quickly find spaces to operate.
Others may have plenty of time to spin knobs back and forth for hours trying to find a signal, I would rather just look at the screen.

I really don't think the chart is important if the radio is on the 1st two or three pages, its more about operating a radio for me.
The 991 could have the worlds best performance and you could not give one to me...


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 12, 2019, 09:38:03 AM
Now that the FT101D is out there are a few nice video's on the radio, its like the 3000 was and I mean in the add copy it looked kind of funky but in real life its nicer.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 12, 2019, 11:01:27 AM

...But what about the transmitter IMD performance.?

...

Sherwood needs to produce a transmitter performance chart to give a complete picture.


Hi Zenki:

No!   Sherwood does not need to.   He is not a public service company and is not paid for his testing
by us users buying subscriptions.   He tests a small set of specifications that are interesting to him,
and he does it very well.

If a different person is passionately interested in calibrated S-meters and transmitter IMD, then THAT person
is free to start a testing website and do all the requied work and expense.

Let's try to avoid making it sound like possibly it is Sherwood's duty to publish any and all specs that
interest us.    Not his job :-)    But other people could, and SHOULD, start additional website testing
charts, *IF* it interests them.

Cheers


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 12, 2019, 11:04:22 AM
With a clean Transmitter and a calibrated S-meter it would have been a perfect radio.

The Japanese dont seem to want to understand the point that the big advantage of the SDR direct sampling platform that producing a radio with a calibrated S-meter  is something that is very easy to do. A good example is the Icom IC7610, I wonder what was so hard to put in 5 lines of code  to make sure that the S-meter was accurate?

Many hams cant seems to comprehend why a calibrated s-meter is so useful today. With direct sampling receivers it would be very easy to measure and quantify  illegal radiated sources and report these with great accuracy. It would easy for manufacturers to define a 9khz EMC filter bandwidth while providing a quasi peak meter in a menu option. These levels could be reported   when used with a suitable active antenna such as a vertical  or loop.  Hams have always been about exploiting what technology has to offer, burying this technology because so  many hams dont understand the science is not good enough reason to do so.

Yaesu points the way: Passive filter ahead of the R.F. stage, state of the art mixer[apparently] and dds, and direct sampling of the first I.F. Their offering is at the top of Sherwood's list without sacrificing general coverage, not to forget to mention that op's like the 3D display. Kudos to Yaesu!!

There are a wide range of desires and choices in the market.
If you can't understand why no other hams are "pounding the drum" for Transmitter IMD and S-Meter accuracy
improvements, maybe you would benefit from starting a survey on e-ham, and tally up how many hams
vote vs. how many actually care about S-meter and transmitter IMD improvements?
That would give you an "interest percentage".

Cheers


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 12, 2019, 11:16:08 AM
FT-DX101D...3,995.00 delivered to your door. Japanese radios are great when you get up into that price range. Great receivers, comfortable to listen to. Problem is anything in the 1000 to 2000 dollar range where the receivers are crap.

Simply NOT true.   Fake news.
The Icom-7300 is a $1000 Japanese radio with very good receive capability.
But don't expect ANY $1,000 radio to equal the performance of [pick one],
perhaps the Icom-7851 (at it's associated cost).
That has nothing to do with what country builds the radio.  Performance costs.
Take a look at Detroit cars.

But maybe you are just a "hater"?   The Japanese are making some very good
radios.  Frankly, their radio, electronics, and camera technology are world leading.

Good day.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: VA3VF on May 12, 2019, 11:40:19 AM
Imagine a hamradio world with only Elecraft and Flex as manufacturers. It would be a bad one in my opinion.

Lest anybody think I'm against them (Elecraft and Flex), not at all. They, their founders, actually put their money where their mouths were, and built businesses to compete with the established Japanese firms. In the process, they forced the competition to shape up as well.

I doubt many of the 'armchair designers' on eham/QRZ would do that. Lastly, customer feedback is very important, but only up to a point.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W6UV on May 12, 2019, 01:54:21 PM
With a clean Transmitter and a calibrated S-meter it would have been a perfect radio.

Hey Zenki, we'll start taking you seriously when you start using a call sign on here like everyone else. Until then, you're just an outsider.

What do you have to hide? Do you actually have a call sign or are you just a wannabe?


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 12, 2019, 04:06:18 PM
With a clean Transmitter and a calibrated S-meter it would have been a perfect radio.

Hey Zenki, we'll start taking you seriously when you start using a call sign on here like everyone else. Until then, you're just an outsider.

What do you have to hide? Do you actually have a call sign or are you just a wannabe?

Sometimes it is hard to take someone with a callsign seriously. I been on eHam forever and there has been much untrue crap being posted by hams with callsigns. As long as eHam allows alias and does little to no moderating we are free to post our views with an alias or with our callsign. Including Zenki who occasionally is mildly interesting.

I can fully understand why a ham would want to use an alias instead of a callsign. I myself have taken considerable abuse over the years from hams that do not agree with me. Nasty emails, including death threats and even one British ham that wished me dead right here in this forum. I even had one long hateful Topic thread (that was deleted later) devoted to Banning me from posting on eHam. I am still here.

I still use my callsign when posting because I have the balls to post truths, and opinions that others may not like. I live in America. I will not hide my true identity because of hams attacking me.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: NI8R on May 12, 2019, 04:28:42 PM

Stan, i thought you liked being attacked. Why else would anyone post here ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Greg


[/quote]

Sometimes it is hard to take someone with a callsign seriously. I been on eHam forever and there has been much untrue crap being posted by hams with callsigns. As long as eHam allows alias and does little to no moderating we are free to post our views with an alias or with our callsign. Including Zenki who occasionally is mildly interesting.

I can fully understand why a ham would want to use an alias instead of a callsign. I myself have taken considerable abuse over the years from hams that do not agree with me. Nasty emails, including death threats and even one British ham that wished me dead right here in this forum. I even had one long hateful Topic thread (that was deleted later) devoted to Banning me from posting on eHam. I am still here.

I still use my callsign when posting because I have the balls to post truths, and opinions that others may not like. I live in America. I will not hide my true identity because of hams attacking me.

Stan K9IUQ
[/quote]


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 12, 2019, 04:42:47 PM
Stan, i thought you liked being attacked. Why else would anyone post here ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Greg

Well Greg it is like this. Posting here on eHam is like banging my head against a wall. It hurts like heck but when I stop banging, it feels sooo good.  :)

Plus I have many Flexradio Owners here who would miss me if I stopped posting on the SDR forum from time to time.  ;)

Greg, you are a ham who always seems to have the latest and greatest radios. Being a millionaire Alpaca farmer probably has something to do with that.  :) What do YOU think of the new offerings from Yaesu, Kenwood and the Icom 7610.

Are you ready to buy something new?

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: VK3BL on May 12, 2019, 09:50:39 PM
Now that the FT101D is out there are a few nice video's on the radio, its like the 3000 was and I mean in the add copy it looked kind of funky but in real life its nicer.


Even the videos don't do it justice, and I say that having produced one of them!

Sitting in front of the FTdx101D is something else; it actually /feels/ amazing and I can honestly state that until you've sat in front of one of them you haven't got a clue what the radio is actually like.  Photos do it no justice at all (it doesn't fit the 2/3rds convention), and Videos whilst a bit better are not 3D.

People will laugh, but that 'big knob' really does feel lovely in the hand...

Even though I have absolutely no need for one and would never sell my Icom IC-7610 to buy one... I'm sitting here thinking 'well maybe if I took leftovers to work for a while and didn't buy chocolate at the servo'...

That is how nice it feels to sit in front of.

As for the architecture, well, its not an SDR like an ANAN, Flex or Icom.  But who cares? It beats them all.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: AC7CW on May 13, 2019, 12:29:53 AM
my initial reaction was the same as yours: this is going to take the Flex fanbois down a notch or two.  :D

It is going to do more than that IMO. There are many hams who think the Sherwood list is some kinda holy grail and will buy the Top O' The List just for bragging rites. Yeah I misspelled rights on purpose.....

This does not bode well for Flexradio who has enjoyed the Top O' The List for years. It IS gonna cost them sales. Just like the Icom 7300 cost Flexradio many SDR sales.

Since the Yaesu FTDX 101D is not a true 100% SDR but a hybrid, this will hurt Flex Lover egos even more. I suspect that Flexradio has had its day in the sun. Bleak times ahead for Flexers, time to dump that Flexradio Jerry and upgrade your FT-5000.   ;D

Flexradio no longer rules SDRs and is no longer Top O' The List

Stan K9IUQ



According to a footnote the Flex 6700 has not been near the top of the Sherwood list since 2017 when something changed with regard to the preamp or something... if the Flex is moved down the list the best topology is direct sampling of a single conversion IF at 9MHz followed by two double conversion designs that sample at very low frequency IF's, and a lowly Tayloe conversion unit. The direct sampling stuff is fully two S Units down from the top but they have great bandscope capabilities and the Flex has multiple slices and all... if a homebrewer could figure out how to squeeze one S Unit improvement out of a Tayloe design they could have a rx equal to the FTdx-101D with regard to close spaced signal rejection with hardware parts cost < $50...


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 13, 2019, 07:47:12 AM
What is not clear on the FTDX101D is do you have to add two VC tune units per each receiver at the tune of $329 each, two 300Hz roofing filters per each RX section and here again two 1.2khz narrow SSB roofing filters per each RX sections and they are $259 each filter. Now I am not sure what how much they are going to charge for the shack Lan interface and whatever remote software will cost, seems like this new Yaesu will be closer to around $6k fully loaded but someone who owns one should chime in cause the web info is not that clear yet.
When you look at how almost complete the 7610 is at $3K and maybe the remote software at $150 or the remote RC28 second VFO is $250 is almost a bargain.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 13, 2019, 08:23:53 AM
What is not clear on the FTDX101D is do you have to add two VC tune units per each receiver at the tune of $329 each,

When you look at how almost complete the 7610 is at $3K and maybe the remote software at $150 or the remote RC28 second VFO is $250 is almost a bargain.

It IS clear if a ham reads the FTDX-101D manual available as free download from Yaesu. The VC-tune is an option on the sub RX. You post like a Icom fanboy.

Probably the ham that purchases a FTDX-101D is not looking for a bargain. He is looking for top performance.
If a ham wants a bargain - he buys a 7300 or TS-590.  $3K plus for ham radios is not bargain territory.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: AC7CW on May 13, 2019, 09:58:51 AM
What is not clear on the FTDX101D is do you have to add two VC tune units per each receiver at the tune of $329 each, two 300Hz roofing filters per each RX section and here again two 1.2khz narrow SSB roofing filters per each RX sections and they are $259 each filter. Now I am not sure what how much they are going to charge for the shack Lan interface and whatever remote software will cost, seems like this new Yaesu will be closer to around $6k fully loaded but someone who owns one should chime in cause the web info is not that clear yet.
When you look at how almost complete the 7610 is at $3K and maybe the remote software at $150 or the remote RC28 second VFO is $250 is almost a bargain.

The FTdx-101MP 200 watt version comes fully loaded. The price is TBA at this point but I'd guess it will be ~$5500


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KA4DPO on May 13, 2019, 01:14:50 PM
my initial reaction was the same as yours: this is going to take the Flex fanbois down a notch or two.  :D

It is going to do more than that IMO. There are many hams who think the Sherwood list is some kinda holy grail and will buy the Top O' The List just for bragging rites. Yeah I misspelled rights on purpose.....

This does not bode well for Flexradio who has enjoyed the Top O' The List for years. It IS gonna cost them sales. Just like the Icom 7300 cost Flexradio many SDR sales.

Since the Yaesu FTDX 101D is not a true 100% SDR but a hybrid, this will hurt Flex Lover egos even more. I suspect that Flexradio has had its day in the sun. Bleak times ahead for Flexers, time to dump that Flexradio Jerry and upgrade your FT-5000.   ;D

Flexradio no longer rules SDRs and is no longer Top O' The List

Stan K9IUQ



According to a footnote the Flex 6700 has not been near the top of the Sherwood list since 2017 when something changed with regard to the preamp or something... if the Flex is moved down the list the best topology is direct sampling of a single conversion IF at 9MHz followed by two double conversion designs that sample at very low frequency IF's, and a lowly Tayloe conversion unit. The direct sampling stuff is fully two S Units down from the top but they have great bandscope capabilities and the Flex has multiple slices and all... if a homebrewer could figure out how to squeeze one S Unit improvement out of a Tayloe design they could have a rx equal to the FTdx-101D with regard to close spaced signal rejection with hardware parts cost < $50...

I think Flex shot themselves in the foot when they rushed the Flex 6600M and 6400M to compete with the Icom 7610.  If you really look at the specs for the Flex 6600, it has poor sensitivity and AGC action compared to the less expensive Icom.  In fact, the only thing it really has going for it is the display.  Flex radio caters to the eye candy crowd because quite frankly, the performance in several areas is just not that good when compared to the Icom 7610, the Kenwood TS-890S, and now the FTDX-101D.  When a home brewer does figure out a way to squeeze a few more DB out of a Flex unit I will be a believer.  That is unfortunately, not very likely,  since a good bit of the operating system firmware is proprietary to Flex.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W6UV on May 13, 2019, 02:00:53 PM
I can fully understand why a ham would want to use an alias instead of a callsign.

I can't. At least Slashdot, which also allows anonymous posting, gives these people an appropriate name: Anonymous Coward.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: VA3VF on May 13, 2019, 02:25:40 PM
At least Slashdot, which also allows anonymous posting, gives these people an appropriate name: Anonymous Coward.
Really? LOL

I don't know I would go that far. Better not to allow those kind of posts, end of story.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W4HIJ on May 13, 2019, 02:30:49 PM
FT-DX101D...3,995.00 delivered to your door. Japanese radios are great when you get up into that price range. Great receivers, comfortable to listen to. Problem is anything in the 1000 to 2000 dollar range where the receivers are crap.

Simply NOT true.   Fake news.
The Icom-7300 is a $1000 Japanese radio with very good receive capability.
But don't expect ANY $1,000 radio to equal the performance of [pick one],
perhaps the Icom-7851 (at it's associated cost).
That has nothing to do with what country builds the radio.  Performance costs.
Take a look at Detroit cars.

But maybe you are just a "hater"?   The Japanese are making some very good
radios.  Frankly, their radio, electronics, and camera technology are world leading.

Good day.
I'm not a hater at all but I call them like I see them. It's not just about the specs or as you put it "good receive capability" It's about listener comfort. I worked in the ham radio industry for years and got to see and hear the latest and greatest as soon as they came out. Side by side comparisons were easy. Based on those years of experience as well as experiences with the many rigs I've owned, I can say that most every radio from the "big three" which is under, now, about the 2K range is fatiguing to listen to for any long periods of time, not to mention other issues like birdies and such. The higher dollar radios never produce the fatigue for me the lower end ones do. I thought that was just the way it was till I owned a Flex 1500 and realized that someone had produced a relatively inexpensive radio that was as comfortable to listen to as the high end radios. That's what my bias, if it could even be called that, is about. Of course, it's all my opinion, which last I checked I'm entitled to, but it's an opinion based on years of experience. YMMV and probably will. Good day to you too!


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 13, 2019, 02:31:59 PM
Stan, I do own a 7610 but I am not a Fan Boy, I skimmed the FTDX101D manual but it was more for what they were divulging as specs and set up, you seem to think that the specs on this radio is going to maybe bring new light on the QSO's you might have with it but bottom line unless your station has multiple stacked mono band beams on 100' plus towers and full sized 4 SQR on 75 and 160 that the Icom is like a tonka toy. If you are blessed with a antenna farm full of big beams and directional array the differences in spec just might make that subtle difference but I think not, its all about how you feel about the extra's it brings to the table and #3K for a radio is not cheap but if you want to compare apples to apples to bring both RX sections up to what would be called state of the art you need the second VC unit and both RX sections loaded with the optional roofing filters so that brings up the $4k price a bit more, still allot better buy than a K3s which will be slowly sitting in muddy waters.
To answer your question about Fan Boy, hell I used to be that way about Yaesu but sorry no more until they start cleaning up the way the design there ALC system and track there PA bias cause when you look at spectral purity the Anan is number one and the Icom and then Flex rigs are second and third everything else has laged including the 890S, its better than the Yaesu's 5K and 3K but this new puppy needs to get tested by the ARRL lab so we will see, I hope they did there homework as well on the TX side.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 13, 2019, 03:54:24 PM
Stan, I do own a 7610 but I am not a Fan Boy,

you seem to think that the specs on this radio is going to maybe bring new light on the QSO's you might have with it

I like Icoms, have had many and presently own a 7600. I am not an Icom fan boy. I knock them when they deserve it.

Any radio I might buy is NOT going to bring new light on any QSOes. I just am ready for a new radio. I have the $$ and the urge but can not decide which to get.  The FTDX-101D is very new and Yaesu has the worst reputation concerning new adopters. The Kenwood TS-890s is very attractive but only has one Rx. Also the lack of an included Microphone REALLY disturbs me. It is the principle. Ham Radios should always include a hand mic. The 7610 is interesting but until I can be positive the screen issue is solved I will not consider one.

So I am at a stand still right now. I can wait and will wait on a purchase unless a deal comes up I can not pass up.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: NI8R on May 13, 2019, 04:48:11 PM
Stan, i thought you liked being attacked. Why else would anyone post here ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Greg

Well Greg it is like this. Posting here on eHam is like banging my head against a wall. It hurts like heck but when I stop banging, it feels sooo good.  :)

Plus I have many Flexradio Owners here who would miss me if I stopped posting on the SDR forum from time to time.  ;)

Greg, you are a ham who always seems to have the latest and greatest radios. Being a millionaire Alpaca farmer probably has something to do with that.  :) What do YOU think of the new offerings from Yaesu, Kenwood and the Icom 7610.

Are you ready to buy something new?

Stan K9IUQ


Well , Stan, its true. I can afford any radio i want. Being a Multi multi makes that an easy feat. I am done buying rigs for a while. Everyone know its the antenna doing all the work.

I spend a lot of my time using my oak hills research qrp rigs, i have the ohr 500 and a few 100a's and some decked out spirits.
The big sleeper in all of this is the software that is developed by expert electronics for the sun sdr products and the companion tci software.
The radio is also great with nice transmit chain.

I have the icom 7851 which i would love to see side by side with the 101d, if the 101d does not have 24 bit audio, i would guess 7851 would make it seem cheap.

The real champion is the Anan 7000dle mk2. No radio will compete with the receive due to the complex dsp code. the pure signal even gets zenki's seal of approval.

Stan , i dont need anymore radios, lets hope i stay away from xenia.

Greg ni8r


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 13, 2019, 07:03:51 PM
Hey Stan I agree, just within the year warranty my display started to get that burn in look and to be honest ever since new the display did not have that black background dynamic contrast level like the 7300 had. The replacement display has that ultra black background and look jet black just like the 7300 did so I agree Icom has to get behind this issue but the radio itself is really a good value per dollar in today's market, there will always be a slightly better radio but for the asking price is dam good.
I remember back in 1998 I had a new FT1000MP which was just over a year old, I used a pair of them in contesting and the newer one which was so much better than the one with the 96 date code it wasn't funny, it was getting all kinds of interference when the radio was on another band, any band and the newer one had none. I called HRO then Yaesu and a week before that 98CQWW phone I had a new FT1000MP delivered to my door that Friday from Yaesu with PIN diodes in the band pass filter network which the newer serial number already had which fixed that issue. Great job on Yaesu's part back then but I don't think they would be doing that today but Icom should learn some lessons and put this display issue to bed.   


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 14, 2019, 09:38:46 AM
Stan, I do own a 7610 but I am not a Fan Boy,

you seem to think that the specs on this radio is going to maybe bring new light on the QSO's you might have with it

I like Icoms, have had many and presently own a 7600. I am not an Icom fan boy. I knock them when they deserve it.

Any radio I might buy is NOT going to bring new light on any QSOes. I just am ready for a new radio. I have the $$ and the urge but can not decide which to get.  The FTDX-101D is very new and Yaesu has the worst reputation concerning new adopters. The Kenwood TS-890s is very attractive but only has one Rx. Also the lack of an included Microphone REALLY disturbs me. It is the principle. Ham Radios should always include a hand mic. The 7610 is interesting but until I can be positive the screen issue is solved I will not consider one.

So I am at a stand still right now. I can wait and will wait on a purchase unless a deal comes up I can not pass up.

Stan K9IUQ


regarding the Icom 7610 screens;
The Japanese are not a culture that will release news about a mistake like the screen problem on the 7610, or the
prior PA design issue (grounding strap needed) inside the Yaesu FT-991 that blew finals before 2014.  Instead, they
will silently fix the issue and continue building rigs.  You not only will NOT hear anything from them, it will be close
to impossible to ever find out what they changed or did.

Personally, I think the Icom 7610 would be perfect for you, especially since simple mention of word Flex pisses you off.
The Icom is a great rig.  No vendor could have predicted that their display supplier would let them down.
But I can guarantee that Icom is pissed, and takes the issue VERY seriously, and will, or has already, solved it.

I would say;  Watch for new forum posts of display problems to dwindle away.  At that point, Icom likely has solved
the issue, and you would be safe to purchase the 7610.  That is the only information we will get.

Also, the new Yaesu looks like a fine choice.    I don't think you could go wrong buying one.
You could even use your older Flex as a support pedestal to put the Yaesu on top of :-)

Like sherwood himself has previously said, most of the rigs on the first few pages work just fine.

Until we get some uptick in the sunspot solar cycle, not sure it matters which transceiver you buy
at all;  more important is pairing it with a 50 KiloWatt transmitter :-)

Neal


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 14, 2019, 10:04:48 AM

Personally, I think the Icom 7610 would be perfect for you, especially since simple mention of word Flex pisses you off.


You could even use your older Flex as a support pedestal to put the Yaesu on top of :-)


Until we get some uptick in the sunspot solar cycle, not sure it matters which transceiver you buy
at all;  more important is pairing it with a 50 KiloWatt transmitter :-)

Neal

Neal, you got it backwards, I mention the word Flexradio in a post and the Flex Lovers get pissed.

I am so over my Flexradio experience. I no longer have a Flexradio and never will have another one. Also I will never buy another radio that requires a computer to use. I want knobs and buttons, the more the better.

I admit I do yank the Flex Lover Chain from time to time,it is merely for entertainment as I know how rabid and silly the Flex Lovers can get towards me. They never change. I do not hate Flexradio nor do I hate the Flex Lovers.

You are correct the 7610 would be a good fit for me and the bands suck so much that the K index was 7 today. Dead Bands. Dead Radios. Why buy a new one?

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K7JQ on May 14, 2019, 11:36:42 AM

Why buy a new one?

Stan K9IUQ



Because they're out there...something new and exciting to play with in the shack. We all get that "itch", whether we need it or not :). Human nature. Buy one and enjoy it...you only live once, and you never know what's around the corner health-wise. At 73, I just got over treatment for a life-threatening illness (with a chance of relapse), and boy has my attitude changed!

Bob K7JQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N0YXB on May 14, 2019, 11:52:54 AM
I am so over my Flexradio experience. I no longer have a Flexradio and never will have another one. Also I will never buy another radio that requires a computer to use. I want knobs and buttons, the more the better.

Stan K9IUQ

When did this happen? I feel blindsided.

Just kidding.   :D


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W4HIJ on May 14, 2019, 04:54:10 PM
I still have to chuckle when I think back on the post I saw in the Flex forum when I was first considering buying one. It was something to the effect of how spectacular the 5K was. It was a small part of what influenced me to buy one. That post was by none other than "Stan the Man". Then someone at Flex peed in his cornflakes and he became the salty old fart we all know and love. Well, some of you love him I guess! Anyway, wasn't this a Yaesu thread? Yaesu, the people you buy a radio from and six months later they improve it to the "A" model and want to charge you 500 bucks plus shipping for the upgrade. They also use second rate crap finals. Do yourselves a favor and buy a Kenwood, Elecraft or dare I say, a Flex. Y'all have a nice day! ;D


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 14, 2019, 05:29:21 PM
I still have to chuckle when I think back on the post I saw in the Flex forum when I was first considering buying one.

Yaesu, the people you buy a radio from and six months later they improve it to the "A" model and want to charge you 500 bucks plus shipping for the upgrade. They also use second rate crap finals.

Michael, you ain't changed a bit in 9 years. Still Grumpy. Still bashing Jap radios, K9IUQ and plugging Flexes.  :D :D
Yeah, I remember you, and WB6RQN Brian and many others on this SDR forum many years ago. What fun we had, especially with Brian. He gave up on Flexradios finally, he got too many truths from me I guess. I miss him, he was very intelligent and never nasty even tho he was a Flex Lover and the First Official Flexradio Ambassador.

I have to agree with you on Yaesu. They did a bum deal on the first adopters of the FT-991. I guess you bought one and they peed in your cornflakes? This is one reason why I have not jumped on the FTDX-101D bandwagon yet. Yaesu has a history with first adopters and it ain't good..

Your old friend
Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N0YXB on May 14, 2019, 10:09:03 PM

Yeah, I remember you, and WB6RQN Brian and many others on this SDR forum many years ago. What fun we had, especially with Brian. He gave up on Flexradios finally, he got too many truths from me I guess. I miss him, he was very intelligent and never nasty even tho he was a Flex Lover and the First Official Flexradio Ambassador.

Those really were fun threads. And I agree about Brian, his debating style is sorely missed.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: W4HIJ on May 15, 2019, 06:38:00 AM
I still like Kenwood! I never really cared much for Icom, I don't know why. I had a couple but sold them both not long after I got them. Yes, Yaesu peed in my cornflakes. I have a very limited radio budget and I took a bath on the FT-991. It's one of the reasons that my main rig is the 250 buck Hobby PCB RS-HFIQ but I do love the little gem. It's not really bashing Jap radios to point how uncomfortable the RX's are to listen to on the sub 2K models. I'm telling you folks, and I know Stan hates Flex, the 1500 RX was a joy to listen to. To this day, I'd probably still buy a new Flex if I had the funds. I wouldn't need a "Maestro" or a knob model either. Ever the outlier, I actually like mouse tuning.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 15, 2019, 07:13:47 AM
Yaesu in the mid nineties really tried to set the bar as far as the receiver section was concerned but soon after Motorola bought them the advent of the FT2000, FT9000 series just made them plummet in that regard, the 200 was nowhere as good as the old MP's and the 9000 was two FT950's in a box with more power and lots of features that was mainly eye candy. Until the 3000/5000 series they were floundering and that basic design was following the K3 and the Orion's, nothing new. This radio is interesting cause it does combine a superhet with a narrow band SDR but I thought the whole basis of SDR is to get away from internal noise from mixers and multiple conversions, that the technology was by the numbers not with ultra low noise components which end up bringing the bill of materials higher and the retail price higher as well. The main reasons why I think the superhet designs do create such a buzz is the blocking numbers, the phase noise on the SDR rigs is very good and even the RM numbers are very good yet the higher end mixers used in the 890 and the 101D seem to produce some higher numbers on one's chart but the bottom line is if you really need these higher numbers be prepared to invest in that higher end price.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KA4DPO on May 15, 2019, 08:51:26 AM
I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. ;D ;D


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 15, 2019, 08:59:17 AM
The main reasons why I think the superhet designs do create such a buzz is the blocking numbers, the phase noise on the SDR rigs is very good and even the RM numbers are very good yet the higher end mixers used in the 890 and the 101D seem to produce some higher numbers on one's chart but the bottom line is if you really need these higher numbers be prepared to invest in that higher end price.

I have never figured out why the high numbers turn on so many hams. Rob Sherwood has and is quite active on many different groups, iogroups and in years past - Yahoo groups. If one reads his actual "opinions" you will find he has been partial to Icom radios thru the years for his own purchases. Right now he owns two 7300s, 7610 and a TS-890S which recently replaced a 990s. He owns no Yaesus or Flexradios to my knowledge. Rob is a pretty avid contester and could have any radio he wants.

He has written countless times that hams should not use the ranking in the Sherwood List to buy a radio. Instead of reading the Sherwood List , hams should read what Sherwood really thinks in the real world. This link is a good place to start and may change some hams thinking about the Holy Grail of Sherwoods List:

 http://www.dj0ip.de/sherwood-forest/sherwood-s-shootouts/

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: AC7CW on May 15, 2019, 10:31:05 AM
The main reasons why I think the superhet designs do create such a buzz is the blocking numbers, the phase noise on the SDR rigs is very good and even the RM numbers are very good yet the higher end mixers used in the 890 and the 101D seem to produce some higher numbers on one's chart but the bottom line is if you really need these higher numbers be prepared to invest in that higher end price.

I have never figured out why the high numbers turn on so many hams. Rob Sherwood has and is quite active on many different groups, iogroups and in years past - Yahoo groups. If one reads his actual "opinions" you will find he has been partial to Icom radios thru the years for his own purchases. Right now he owns two 7300s, 7610 and a TS-890S which recently replaced a 990s. He owns no Yaesus or Flexradios to my knowledge. Rob is a pretty avid contester and could have any radio he wants.

He has written countless times that hams should not use the ranking in the Sherwood List to buy a radio. Instead of reading the Sherwood List , hams should read what Sherwood really thinks in the real world. This link is a good place to start and may change some hams thinking about the Holy Grail of Sherwoods List:

 http://www.dj0ip.de/sherwood-forest/sherwood-s-shootouts/

Stan K9IUQ

Thanks for that link. I read the shootout between Anan and Icom and it made me realize that keying relay noise [not terribly expensive to get right] is perhaps more important than the position on the list [terribly expensive to get right]!! The Anan could hear some weak signals that the Icom could not but they weren't workable anyhow so... yeah, the list is a good reference but not the only reference.

The mention of keying noise reminded me of when as a teenager I built a keyer; two relays mounted on the outside of a Bud Box... so I complete the thing and am testing it in the middle of the night. it's summertime, windows were open and after awhile I hear my mom who is trying to sleep saying "what's that noise? I'm trying to sleep, turn that stuff off...." I had headphones and didn't realize how much relay noise it was making... always something, just always...


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N3HEE on May 15, 2019, 10:50:23 AM
I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. ;D ;D

TROLL !!   ;)

Close your eyes Stan.

Fun indeed !  Watching potential Yahoo customers walk over to the Flex both and buy a radio with an 8 inch 1080P IPS touch screen display capable of 30FPS and external monitor output capable of 1920x1200.  Not to mention displaying 7 Mhz of spectrum at once.  Oh, and a couple more thousand of dollars in savings by not needing external band pass filters, optional roofing filters, optional VC tuning for sub rx, optional remote control box over Ethernet.  Forgot about the open API that allows third party software developers build really cool software and controls without needing to configure COM ports and CAT controls.  Wait there's more.  No need for all of those cables and expensive external switch boxes for SO2R contesting.  Remote control from anywhere on Earth via PC, MAC, iOS, etc.  

As a SO2R contest operator the Flex has saved me thousands and allows me to operate from anywhere.  So it's been fun.  Not to mention third party software applications that really extend the functionality and value of the radio itself.  

I'm not a Flex Lover by any means.  I will tell you how it is.  I own Kenwood, Elecraft and Flex gear.  Flex has issues !  They've bit off way more than they can chew trying to compete and beat others to the market.  They have a hard time delivering software enhancements and bug fixes.  They've made people wait years for hardware.  The version 3 roll out was a disaster.  Version 2 users still waiting on bug fixes after V3 released.  That made some people pretty HOT.
On a positive note their tech support is FIRST RATE !  Near real time responses and resolutions to problems!  Time will tell if they remain a player in the ham radio market.  Until then there is enough right about Flex to keep me interested for the foreseeable future.

I just dont think you can compare the total user experience with Kenwood, Yaesu or Elecraft.  They are just radios.  Flex is an ecosystem !  A radio platform.   And crazy flexible too.  See the diff ?

You can open your eyes again Stan :)

I'm out


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 15, 2019, 11:04:38 AM
Flex has issues !  They've bit off way more than they can chew trying to compete and beat others to the market.  They have a hard time delivering software enhancements and bug fixes.  They've made people wait years for hardware.  The version 3 roll out was a disaster.  Version 2 users still waiting on bug fixes after V3 released.  That made some people pretty HOT.

You can open your eyes again Stan :)


Now you did not really think I would close my eyes did you?

I have not owned a Flexradio for sometime and have not kept up with their latest and greatest. From what you described they have not changed one bit since I owned mine.   Same Old Stuff   :D

Flexradio sells Promises AND Frustration and they are good at it.....

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N8AUC on May 15, 2019, 11:05:54 AM
I still have to chuckle when I think back on the post I saw in the Flex forum when I was first considering buying one.

Yaesu, the people you buy a radio from and six months later they improve it to the "A" model and want to charge you 500 bucks plus shipping for the upgrade. They also use second rate crap finals.

I have to agree with you on Yaesu. They did a bum deal on the first adopters of the FT-991. I guess you bought one and they peed in your cornflakes? This is one reason why I have not jumped on the FTDX-101D bandwagon yet. Yaesu has a history with first adopters and it ain't good..


Yet more evidence to validate my assertion that "You should never buy version one dot uh-oh of anything".

With that said, I've had good luck and good service out of every radio I've ever bought from Yaesu. (I currently own 5 of them!)
But I never, ever buy the early versions of a new model. I don't need to be on the bleeding edge.
There are plenty of people out there with fatter wallets than mine who do want to be on that bleeding edge.
I'm glad they are out there, and more power to them. It's just not for me.

When I buy a radio, since they're rather expensive, I intend to keep it and use it for a long time.
And I hate the "buyers remorse" that results from feeling like you wasted good money on a radio that has stupid problems.

73 de N8AUC
Eric


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 15, 2019, 01:04:57 PM
I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. ;D ;D

Ahh...,    I love the smell of competition in a free market system :-)


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K9IUQ on May 15, 2019, 01:58:57 PM
I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. ;D ;D

Ahh...,    I love the smell of competition in a free market system :-)

For the newbies in the forum, this is probably an inside joke from KA4DPO. If it really does happen, then payback is a bitch:

A few years ago a Rinky Dinky Company went to Hamvention and put the newly released Icom 7300 on the table next to their beloved SDR. The Rinky Dinky Company Lovers made great fun of the 7300 even bashing it on this forum.

The rest is history. The 7300 went on to being probably the best selling ham radio ever. More 7300s have been sold than the Rinky Dinky radios has sold in 12 years of existence.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KA4DPO on May 15, 2019, 08:26:03 PM
I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. ;D ;D

TROLL !!   ;)

Close your eyes Stan.

Fun indeed !  Watching potential Yahoo customers walk over to the Flex both and buy a radio with an 8 inch 1080P IPS touch screen display capable of 30FPS and external monitor output capable of 1920x1200.  Not to mention displaying 7 Mhz of spectrum at once.  Oh, and a couple more thousand of dollars in savings by not needing external band pass filters, optional roofing filters, optional VC tuning for sub rx, optional remote control box over Ethernet.  Forgot about the open API that allows third party software developers build really cool software and controls without needing to configure COM ports and CAT controls.  Wait there's more.  No need for all of those cables and expensive external switch boxes for SO2R contesting.  Remote control from anywhere on Earth via PC, MAC, iOS, etc.  

As a SO2R contest operator the Flex has saved me thousands and allows me to operate from anywhere.  So it's been fun.  Not to mention third party software applications that really extend the functionality and value of the radio itself.  

I'm not a Flex Lover by any means.  I will tell you how it is.  I own Kenwood, Elecraft and Flex gear.  Flex has issues !  They've bit off way more than they can chew trying to compete and beat others to the market.  They have a hard time delivering software enhancements and bug fixes.  They've made people wait years for hardware.  The version 3 roll out was a disaster.  Version 2 users still waiting on bug fixes after V3 released.  That made some people pretty HOT.
On a positive note their tech support is FIRST RATE !  Near real time responses and resolutions to problems!  Time will tell if they remain a player in the ham radio market.  Until then there is enough right about Flex to keep me interested for the foreseeable future.

I just dont think you can compare the total user experience with Kenwood, Yaesu or Elecraft.  They are just radios.  Flex is an ecosystem !  A radio platform.   And crazy flexible too.  See the diff ?

You can open your eyes again Stan :)

I'm out

Troll???  I guess you thought it was OK when the good folks at Flex brought a newly released IC-7300 to their booth at Dayton and trashed the crap out of it by comparing it with their Flex 6700 show setup.  Yeah, no one was a troll then right???

 Had it not been for that totally crappy, juvenile stunt, I might have actually looked into a Flex, but they totally lost me as a customer when they pulled that nonsense.  Stan remembers that too.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N3HEE on May 16, 2019, 05:22:59 AM
Lighten up there Flex Haters.  All is fair in sales and marketing.  Yes eyeCom sold tons of those inferior little radios.  Wazoo and eyeCom will take over the SDR market.  I propose a 25% tariff on them so Flex can survive.  BTW, have you heard what Flex is planning to announce at Hamvention this year ?   Nothing !  And it brings a tear of joy to my eye  :'(


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K8EZB on May 16, 2019, 06:35:42 AM
This posted May 15 on groups.io with no further explanation:

Rob’s TX IMD results for 100 watts in 20 meters:

3rd order = 33 DBc

5th order = 31.8

7th order = 40.7

9th order = 52.8

Results less favorable on 6 meters and better on 80 meters.

Composite noise =

1 kHz is 130.86 DBc/hz

2 kHz is 131.86

5 kHz is 133.86

10 kHz is 135.06

20 kHz is 136.96


Rick
K8EZB


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N8YX on May 16, 2019, 07:03:42 AM
I'll dump this in as a prospective future buyer:

Those of you who purchase a -101D, give us some feedback on how the receiver handles band noise (man-made EMI, RFI). As I'm typing this I see an S7 noise level on 40M, most of it being hash from sources external to the house. I'd love for a receiver to be able to reduce or eliminate this to the point where weak signals are readable once again.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K8EZB on May 16, 2019, 09:21:42 AM
Any info on the availability of the MP version of this radio? GigaParts has posted an estimated MSRP of $6500. I'd expect the street price to be under $5500. Would seem like good value at this price point when compared to some of the higher end radios (7851, etc). I remember paying $3995 for an FT-1000D in 1997 (about $6300 in 2019 dollars). So, if the numbers are about correct, much more radio for about $1000 less.

RIck
K8EZB


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: AC7CW on May 16, 2019, 02:53:31 PM
I'm wondering how narrow space dynamic range relates to total noise in the passband... DSP may be just finding strong signals at the edge of the passband center and removing them or it might be working on the overall noise in the passband. The former won't do much with regard to noise fatigue when not in a qso but the latter might, no?


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: K6BRN on May 17, 2019, 01:57:36 PM
I've designed and led the desigh teams for MANY digital signal processing systems. So, Having looked inside quite a few contemporary radios, here are my thoughts...

1.  Icom IC-7300:  A DSP driven radio with compromises in all the right places, an elegantly designed user interfaces and at the right pricepoint for the performance and features it offers.  Those are the three characteristics that still make it one of the best values out there.  BTW - I don't own one (I'm a Yaesu "fanboy" BTW) but I've used one.  Hard NOT to like it.  Well done!  Guess I'm an Icom Fanboy, too.

2.  FlexRadio Flex-6600:  An excercise in engineering elegance.  It blends modular design with minimalist internal materials/shielding/isolation (cost optimization) and takes advantage of some VERY good digital signal processing design to yield excellent performance.  Not the simplest radio in existence, but definitely an enthusiasts radio with a LOT of usable features.  Well done!  I'm DEFINITELY a FlexRadio Fanboy.

3.  Yaesu FTDX-3000:  A very classic and relatively expensive RF chassis for both TX abd RX (lots of shielded compartments, custom cast aluminum chassis) married to a low-IF (just above audio) DSP processor with excellent firmware to provide very good performance.  Tough as nails TX section.  Menu designed by three different groups of 60's hippies on LSD, with bad memories.  Still, a pretty goof rig overall.  Yaesu does analog RX VERY well.  And since nobody has really complained about my TX signals, I guess IMD is, well, goo enough.  Like I said, I'm a Fanboy!

I just love good equipment with good engineering!

Brian - K6BRN


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N6YFM on May 18, 2019, 11:07:18 PM
Hello, where did all the poster's go?   Did the Elecraft K4 announcement kill this thread?

Hey, I do NOT have Attention Deficit Dis....    
                                                                  Hey look, there goes a squirrel !

:-)


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: M0GVZ on May 19, 2019, 02:05:07 PM
I'll dump this in as a prospective future buyer:

Those of you who purchase a -101D, give us some feedback on how the receiver handles band noise (man-made EMI, RFI). As I'm typing this I see an S7 noise level on 40M, most of it being hash from sources external to the house. I'd love for a receiver to be able to reduce or eliminate this to the point where weak signals are readable once again.

The sad part about this is that any radio with two receivers could be capable of doing it, the SDR ones especially those doing diversity receive even more so by having a small antenna connected to the sub receiver then feeding that back into the main receiver chain 180 degrees out of phase. That's pretty much the way the MFJ1025/1026s work with them having additional controls on phase and amplitude.

BTW if you haven't tried one yet you may want to give a MFJ 1026 a go.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 19, 2019, 05:24:33 PM
I use a MFJ 1025 in my station as well, on 75 meters I have an S9 noise level during the bay and night as well which the MFJ bring it down to S3, also on 40m its about an S6 and with the MFJ its drought down to S1. At night on 75 somewhere around 10 pm a local home 400 feet away has a solar panel system that seem to go into a deep charge cycle then for a few hours till 2 am or soo, this produces an annoying noise level in which the MFJ only does slight changes on maybe 10db yet the NB on the 7610 makes it go simply away, My FTDX 3000 I had didn't even come close in noise elimination of this type yet the IC7300 and the 7610 did a dam good job.
 
                        The best receiver in the land doesn't buy you squat if the noise reduction doesn't work well in a suburban QTH! 


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: N2DTS on May 19, 2019, 06:14:24 PM
I looked at some video's of the new MFJ loop antenna, quite a dramatic noise reduction.
My dipoles are not bad, but my zero 5 vertical antenna picks up a LOT of noise.
I did find the 7300 noise blanker about the best I have had.
I think the Elad was also good.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on May 22, 2019, 11:31:56 AM
I am moving south in a few weeks out of the NE area and to warmer southern climates, I find out what the noise level will be down in Florida, yes I know lightning will be an issue but I mean man made noise, I have looked into a RX loop but will still try the phasing MFJ 1025. The loop may be better with lightning static though but it pays to have them in your arsenal. On the low bands I might be able to get some brown jacketed RG6 coax and make some blog style beverages 200 to 300 feet long which may also help in certain directions but on both the 7300 I owned and the 7610 the noise blanker has been one of the best I have used with excellent results plus the noise reduction which does have a slight change in the upper high frequencies of the audio spectrum really reduces the back ground noise without any digital artifacts. I would like to see someone who owns both the FTDX101D and the IC7610 compare them side by side and write a report of there findings.


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: AC7CW on May 22, 2019, 02:19:52 PM
Direct sampling is becoming an industry catch phrase. Yaesu talks of direct sampling of a 9MHz I.F. That is hardly more "direct" than sampling the low I.F. in a double conversion design. They might capture more spectrum at the 9MHz I.F. than a double conversion rig and make the bandscope seem like the rig was direct sampling, there's that. If there is a mixer between the antenna and the A to D it is not direct sampling. Maybe we can request that the industry adopt a term such as "Indirect Sampling" or "Post Conversion Direct Sampling" or "First I.F. Direct Sampling" to indicate a single conversion SDR rig :)


Title: RE: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart
Post by: KX2T on June 01, 2019, 02:40:37 PM
On the full Sherwood test report the blocking spec was at 100Khz not 2Khz or 2.5 Khz were the 101 is around the same as all the other top line SDR rigs, only the Kenwood 890S  has the higher numbers up around 150 at 2Khz spacing. Nothing fancy there just the way Rob test in his lab and will wait for the more detailed ARRL lab numbers.