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eHam Forums => Mods And Repairs => Topic started by: ON7WP on October 03, 2008, 12:07:20 PM



Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on October 03, 2008, 12:07:20 PM
WARNING about the lousy quality control at the yaesu factories !!!

Yaesu has very low quality standards and sells time bombs type FT857 FT897 !

Almost incredible !  After reading for the last 5 years about problems with bias of Yaesu FT-857 FT-897 radios I just came home with my brand new (2008J series) second FT 857 radio and found out the hard way they did nothing to improve this at all.

While testing it on the lab bench auditory tests revealed a not so beautiful modulation.

So I decided to open up the box and check the bias level: A DISASTER !!!!

The predriver was at 95 mA (should be 30 mA)
The driver was at 70 mA (should be 20 mA)
The exciter stage was at 2 x 30 mA (should be 2 x 100 mA)
The HF final stage was at 550 mA (should be 300 mA)
The VHF final stage was at 990 mA (should be 300 mA)

If I wouldn’t have opened it I would have blown my VHF final stage at the first contest, as these currents even increase when heating up.  Al values above were for a cold radio straight out of the box.

I also would like to add the fact that those Japanese engineers don’t know yet that we all are using 3 kHz FM deviation (unit was adjusted at 5,5 kHz) and a low CTCSS deviation of max 450 Hz deviation (was at 1 kHz adjusted).

The only thing I can conclude from this bad experience is that virtually nobody at the Yaesu Plant or Yaesu design centre speaks English or bothers reading reviews or mod sites in order to see what is severely wrong with their products and do something about it.

So if you also have a FT857 FT897 and you get complaints about rotten modulation, have somebody check out your radio for these bias problems.  There are plenty of resources on the web explaining how to.  If you are not familiar with SMD stuff please don’t try this at home…  You can easily toast your radio if you are not a radio whizzz like me…

Pedro M.J. Wyns ON7WP – AA9HX

comments welcome !!!


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: WW5AA on October 03, 2008, 12:53:08 PM
Interesting....I must be lucky. My FT-857D has been used mobile for three years now in all kinds of weather. I get great audio reports and a lot of comments like "What a signal, you sound like a base station".

73 de Lindy


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: PE1HZG on October 09, 2008, 01:53:14 PM
Do we know absolutely sure that setting a higher bias setting isn't part of product improvement? Do we know if these bias settings are identical on, say, another radio in the same lot?

We all want the latest (a 'D' instead of the "older" radio), but yet compare bias settings with the values printed in the earliest version of the service manual.

It is not unlikely that you are correct, but I'd like to know what Yaesu has to say about this. Unfortunately, the techs in Amsterdam are very carefully shielded from the outside world and you don't get to talk to them..

Geert Jan


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KLEMM on February 03, 2009, 02:54:38 PM
  That's real strange , everyone I know that either has the 857 or the 897 have no complaints. If you look at this site there aren't many 857 or 897 problems. If you didn't like your first one can you tell us why the heck you bought another?


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on March 28, 2009, 03:45:26 PM
97% of all people, especially if they are US based :-) won't even hear the distortion if an amplifier is operating in class-C...

Until now I got 7 FT-857/FT-897 radios in my hands and ALL suffered from modulation distortion caused by bias settings that are wrong.

People start fumbling with mic gain and so on but this is totally wrong.  It is neither RF feedback as some think.

But unfortunately most hams are afraid to open their radio still under warranty to do some "very difficult" adjustment needing high end tools such as a Wallmart 10$ multimeter...

Pedro M.J. Wyns ON7WP-AA9HX


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: NO6L on March 29, 2009, 09:49:04 PM
>by ON7WP on March 28, 2009
>...97% of all people, especially if they are US based :-) won't even hear the distortion if an amplifier is operating in class-C...

Oh, you are such the expert, not only at RF engineering, but the geopolitical aspects of Amateur Radio, too. You want a medal, or chest to pin it on? All in one sentence you alienate people in the United States. So much for International Good Will through Amateur Radio.

And I've got news for you, Johnson. Not only can I hear the effects of an improperly biased solid state output stage from form a "mile away", 20Khz away and on frequency, but almost every one I know that are US amateurs can, too.

So I don't don't know where you got your statistics, but you should reevaluate your sources.

/end of line


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KL7YK on April 03, 2009, 09:02:44 AM
My 2 cents worth.

I have owned 2 FT-857Ds and a FT-897D for several years without one problem at all.  From base to boat never skipped a beat.  In the truck at 10 below it takes the display a minute or so to come up but the radio worked fine. Only complaint I have ever gotten was RF into the mic which turned out to be a faulty coax switch, not that radio.

Have added the filters and even the TCXO to the 897 without incident.  MARS modded them as well.

Further I own an FT-450AT which has proven to be a gem as well.

Ron Keech, KL7YK


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KA9DTZ on April 05, 2009, 12:04:03 AM
I almost decided not to comment since I cannot claim to be on the level of "radio whizzz".  Then I thought what the heck, little as I know, my 857D seems to have performed very well over time.  I get good reports although I cannot work everyone I can hear.  I guess that could indicate something is wrong.  Come to think of it, I have received comments that I didn't sound very good in bad band conditions.  Now I'm really worried.  I may just get rid of it to be safe... Naaaa :)

I've seen the $10 Walmart multimeter and if that's what is being used, I'll take my chances on the margin of error of your preferred test equipment that I'm safe.

Seriously, I think we have all replied to a thread simply intended to create an image of self-importance.  

73, Greg


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on April 05, 2009, 02:32:29 AM
Dear fellow citizens,

I spend a lot of time documenting the repairs I perform on different types and brands of ham radio equipment.  I do this with no commercial intentions.
The collection of my articles as such is getting huge, take a look on www.mods.dk

And even then there are dumb people that need to give comments that are not at all contributing anything interesting at all, just background noise from sheeple...

So I am not going to give too much comment on the remarks below.  Anybody in doubt of my knowledge or measuring equipment used I invite to take a look at my website, easily found even for sheeple by typing my callsign into google...

Or if that is too difficult type users.telenet.be/vrt in the webbrowser window, or better copy and past it if you have these computer skills, it will prevent you from typing errors...

With a big smile and "clin d'oeuil" like they say in French....

Pedro M.J. Wyns ON7WP AA9HX



Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KA9DTZ on April 05, 2009, 09:38:01 AM
My previous post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek... mostly.

Given the reviews posted on eHam are generally not scientific, most representing personal taste, you still cannot discount the high positive rating associated with these two radio models.  This isn't to say there aren't some problem units or some problems inherent to the design.  I would think there would be many more negative comments on actual "drop dead" failures if your, apparently, all inclusive comments on these models had more merit.

I don't know what your skill level is or what test equipment you have access to nor do I feel compelled to make a case study of you by searching the web at your request.  I suspect we know something about you without that effort.

I will, however, question your motives in posting what appears to be a technical review/observation of a radio and, in almost the same breath, deciding to attack a large portion of your audience.  If you cannot tolerate responses questioning your posted material, you might consider sticking with mods.dk where your audience is left to read and move on.  That would certainly be safer than being questioned or disagreed with.  

In the end, it's hard to tell whether you posted in order to attack the US ham community due to some pre-existing anger or became angry when you weren't deified for your observations.

I tried to think of something cute in French but all I could think of was "more power to you".

73, Greg


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KA5N on April 06, 2009, 03:26:12 PM
"Radio Whizzz"  is that when a grid leaks?

Allen


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: N5UP on April 12, 2009, 08:25:51 AM
OK, well, I came here to find the proof that Yaesu sells time bombs.  All I've seen so far is:

1. Currents are out of spec with an old service manual possibly from a radio that is several versions behind;

2. A claim that Americans can't tell distortion with our ears and don't even own a $10 Wal-Mart voltmeter;

3. Testimonials from several people who have owned multiple Yaesu radios without any problems.  Testimonials from the original poster that a bunch of his radios have currents that vary from the old, possibly out-of-date service manual, but no evidence that these manifest themselves in any kind of aberrant behavior as a result;

4. The typical degeneration of forum threads into name-calling and personal attacks, when claims cannot be substantiated by facts;

So where is the proof that the alleged out-of-spec currents constitute a "time bomb"?  I would like to buy an FT-857, but not if it is going to explode someday in the near future.

73,
Dave Morris, N5UP


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on April 12, 2009, 12:39:13 PM
hello my friend,

the proof that these are time bombs is the pile of broken SRF transistors in my Beryllium toxic waste bin, remains from radios (both 857 and 897, new and old) I repaired that suffered from a fatal thermal runaway.

Please disregard some rude comments but I get tired of dealing with people not interested in the real content of my message, id est "please check the current, or take the risk of loosing your very expensive final".

New manual or old manual doesn't matter, you need a MINIMUM of bias current in the predrivers to get a decent sounding signal (and yes most people don't hear low bias and deal with the splatter), and if you set them for TOO MUCH current you have the risk of thermal runaway.

Checking more than 8 radios revealed that NONE of them was even close to any (old or new manual) setting, or do you consider it normal having a balanced stage where one side is running tenfold bias current than the twin brother ?

So please stop the crap, if you own this radio and have some basic electronic knowledge, check the currents and publish the observations here in this thread, and you will see this is a real problem.

Pedro ON7WP


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: W4KVW on April 15, 2009, 02:00:46 PM
Whoever said there are NO Yaesu 857D problems listed has NOT read the feedback page.My posting on my FORMER 857D was less than good by far.As I said in that feedback,if you wanted to GIVE me another one & I HAD TO USE IT as part of the deal I would REFUSE the offer!Now there are some BAD words AGAIN!The 857D is the WORST rig I have EVER owned hands down.Buy a REAL radio(ICOM 706,706 MKII,706 MKIIG,or EVEN BETTER an ICOM 7000)& leave this piece of garbage at the store!

Clayton
W4KVW


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KA9DTZ on April 16, 2009, 09:55:00 AM
It appears Dave summed it up pretty well.  

It appears Clayton has had some problems with his 857 and maybe prefers Icom.  Nothing wrong with that.  I think all the manufacturers produce their share of fair and poor radios.  I did review the thread comments and didn't find any that indicated there were NO problems with 857 or 897 Yaesu's though.

So what we're left with is, again, a claim that 857/897 models are time bombs.  This is evidenced by one set of posted measurements.  The only other thing we have to make a judgement from is anecdotal reviews.  What can we deduce from this information?

Looking back at the number of reviews and rankings for the 857 and 897 we see 4.5 and 4.6 respectively.  The 706 and 7000 both are ranked at 4.5.  Although the number of votes for each radio are not exactly the same, they seem to be similar enough.  

With that said, do we then decide that Pedro's observations are atypical since the four radio models are ranked fairly well and about that same?  If not, then are we to assume, by reverse logic, the 706 and 7000 radios are quite likely time bombs too?  What would be seen if they were measured?  

This comes down to a measured data sample of one vs. positive, albeit, anecdotal 'data' of 242 to 400 samples per model.  You do see reviews that note "melt-down" type failures for the radios but those reviews constitute only a small percentage.  If there were that many 857/897 radios with such a severe problem leading to failure, I believe you would see it reflected even in what amounts to an opinion poll.

IMHO, unhappy people don't generally post positive reviews.  Furthermore, I think there is little evidence to support Pedro's time bomb position but we each have to decide for ourselves.

73, Greg


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on April 16, 2009, 10:08:59 AM
now when the tone changes back to normal I would like to add some more comments...

I do own more than 40 HF radios so I know what to compare...
The FT857, when working is a very nice radio.  I have two of them.  It works great in the car.  It works bad on my Mosley PRO67 beam due to overload, but the radio was never built for this.
I also have an IC706, also a great radio, but the menu structure is not so nice as with the yaesu.  No other comments.
I also have the IC-7000, a superb receiver, an operating systems that is even worse than the IC706 and a transmitter that is less good than the average President Lincoln CB rig.  It is NOT possible to set FM deviation, not in the normal menu not in the engineering menu.  The SSB sounds terrible, even with a modified micro (a shame you have to modify the mike with a 1300$ rig), due to bad ALC performance.

But the main difference and why I posted this tread is that the IC7000 neither the IC706 are self destructing...  The FT-857 and FT-897 are suicidal....

Look at the amount of posts of people looking for spare SRF finals.  They don't go dead without a reason.

So the bottom line of my discours: check the bias current of your rig, to trace down a possibility for a meltdown in the future.  Generally drivers are set too low, finals too high, resulting in rough modulation, like you get with RF feedback, and overheated radios.  You can do this with a 10$ wall mart multimeter or a 5000$ Rohde und Schwarz bench system.  But you do have to handle a screwdriver and open the radio, and most current hams can't handle this any more, they prefer bragging on forums instead insulting people like me that only want to warn for construction faults...


Pedro ON7WP
aa9hx@arrl.net



Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: N7ZM on April 25, 2009, 02:47:30 PM
Bought my FT-857 in 2003, still waiting for the time bomb to go off. Let me know when it's ok to come out of the bomb shelter?


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: K2YO on April 26, 2009, 09:06:07 AM
Pedro,

Could you publish a procedure on how to check this? You said it's real simple, maybe a published how to will help people become comfortable in open up their radios and checking things out.

Bernie


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on April 26, 2009, 10:18:13 AM
most info can be found on www.mods.dk

http://www.mods.dk/mod/yaesu/DG2IAQ_Modification_Sheet_YAESU_FT-897.pdf

page 7 is the important one, although I can also advice to perform, while the radio is opened, the flickering squelch mod that is very effective.

another article in the same directory www.mods.dk  contains excellent photos but suggests a way of adjusting the currents without measuring.  I would advice against this method, use the explaining pictures but do measure and adjust the recommended settings.

All non-beleivers will find out by measuring there is something very wrong...

I hope this ends this BOILING-HOT thread...


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: N4ABA on April 29, 2009, 06:06:25 AM
"Time bombs?"  Misleading, but maybe a "2nd language" inadvertent overstatement. Technically Pedro is correct, some rigs are "out of range" on bias.

I've owned 5 of the 857 range units. Out of the 5, two were "out of range" and were tweaked into range with little problem (but didn't blow up, hi).  One (orig. 857) has over 250K mobile miles so far, no problems except for the "6M fix" from Yaesu.  I've also owned 706 series rigs and have seen similar problems...as well as the "infamous exploding caps" problem.  BOTH are decent little rigs, and, like all production items, will have variance in toleration (yup, was in a design/production environment for 15 yrs).  I have 6 other rigs (KW, Icom, etc) sitting here at present; I'm sure I can find faults with all of them.

If Pedro's "time bomb" comment bothers you, get on the Yaesu FT857 user's group and get the info on setting finals bias.  Set it up as desired...heck, then maybe you can get and wear a "Bomb Squad" T-shirt!!  

Yellow journalism does little except to incite to riot...whether by keyboard or in person.  Lets try to ponder the titles before posting...a solid informative post is much appreciated.  Oh, and a "$10 Wallmart (sic) DVM" (one's in the car's Emergency kit) is probably as good as what I started with 40+ years ago...for the bench, Tek/Fluke/HP are my choices.

73 de N4ABA


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on April 29, 2009, 06:16:53 AM
hmmm, third language in fact...

My mother tongue is Dutch, second language French, third English although I am trying to raise my 8 year old son bi-lingual Dutch-English....
(fourth german, fifth spanish, sixth Russian...)

Thanks for the support, at least you got the message,...

I used a 10$ "Wallmart" multimeter several times to repair >10.000 € (read >15.000 $) broadcast equipment.  Lucky I also had it in my car emergency kit.

Let's raise this thread to the 50+ replies...lol...


Title: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: K1DA on May 08, 2009, 09:25:50 AM
   Your gratuitous insult to US amateurs does little
to enhance my impression of you.  The usefullness of your comments is far exceeded by the snarkeyness of your attitude.  Spare us both in the furure.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: STAYVERTICAL on March 11, 2010, 09:46:17 PM
Hey Pedro, I was a bit worried after reading your post, since I have TWO time bombs (ft897) in my house. I am wondering if my ft817nd could be the detonator which sets off the whole lot? So far they have all worked extremely well on all modes but then with bombs you never know. Any radio that survives being used by such a ham fisted operator as me, has to be one tough baby. These little gems may not be the sexiest radios on the planet ( I am not that way inclined ), but you can rely on them to keep going when the pretty boys are panting in the cafe with their latte's. I guess being time bombs that is why their owners keep them rather than ebay-ing them in droves like some un-named vendors gear.
I cant believe they would really explode, wait! whats that ticking ....73s


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: WA1UFO on March 14, 2010, 05:22:43 PM
Well gentlemen! The next time Holland gets invaded by the Germans, all of us Yanks can stay home!  Whizz-Bang-Boom!!


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on March 15, 2010, 03:26:08 AM
Indeed !  We all can see what a mess you made in Iraq and Afganistan.  You Yanks would better stay home at any time....


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on March 15, 2010, 03:35:13 AM
Apart from all off-topic bullshit comments (including mine, I can never resist trowing back stones, especially at Americans LOL) it is a fact that these radios have serious TX IMD problems due to bad bias settings.  If you have access to a two tone generator and a spectrum analyser you can see for yourself.
Luckily most stages are set for a too low current, so no explosion danger, just a rough sounding modulations that gets better if you overdrive the radio.  The default seting of SSBMICGAIN=50 is far too much, I always suggest 20.
Only the VHF-UHF fet often is the one that has a too high setting, and this is the one that goes QRT.  Proof of this is the hundreds of ads on the web begging for a spare SRF7043 transistor.
Just type "FT857" and "SRF7043" in Google... and you get results in all major world languages complaining about defective finals... How much more proof do you need.  But yes, I've forgotten, the majority of readers of this posting are Americans ROFLOL...


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: STAYVERTICAL on March 15, 2010, 10:45:55 PM
Hi Pedro,

Excuse me, I get confused easily, as I live in the wrong part of the world. I have put in your FT857 and SRF7043 google search and it came back with 35 hits.
Since I am lacking in mathematical skill (due to being in the wrong grid square), can you explain how 35 equals hundreds?
Also it seems a lot of these have to do with other transceivers.
I guess things have changed in the last few days?
I can get more than 35 hits by searching for dancing gay bears from Mars! (2.8 million hits).

Anyway, perhaps you can expose this mystery.
And perhaps you can also explain why this IMD/bias problem does not seem to show up on forums, when the 897/857 rigs have been out since adam was a boy?

If you are too busy saving the world (Holland superpower) just reply when you have time.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: K4RSV on March 21, 2010, 10:35:19 PM
Guys! give a rest. This has gone well beyond where it should. Those that are not having a problem, move on an read another post. You are happy, so stay happy. If you are having problems, check it out for yourself and then decide if the info has value. All my radios are GREAT until they break down. Then I look for help. This is a good place to start. You don't have to get wet or be a great swimmer to use this pool. If you don't feel comfortable with waters, continue to stay out of the deep end.
George K4RSV


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: AB4D on March 23, 2010, 11:02:18 AM
Cool!  This is like the thread that will not DIE!

It's like the Wolf Man, The Blob, and Glen & Glenda, all rolled into one, Yippe!


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: AD6KA on March 23, 2010, 07:13:47 PM
ON7WP  
"hmmm, third language in fact...

My mother tongue is Dutch, second language French, third English although I am trying to raise my 8 year old son bi-lingual Dutch-English....
(fourth german, fifth spanish, sixth Russian...)"

Very admirable goals, you are to be applauded.

I agree that Americans have made a mess of things in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yet before bashing us all, please try to remember that were it not for our European intervention in WWII, most likely the ONLY language you would be speaking right now would be German.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: STAYVERTICAL on March 25, 2010, 03:10:21 AM
Hi Pedro,

Excuse me for being off topic, but rather than discuss wars etc, I would like to ask you whether the link to the modification pdf is current. I have downloaded the modification/check sheet hyperlink, but it is marked december 2004.

I would not trust anything this old, as I am sure Yaesu has made changes since that time. As both my FT897D radios are relatively recent, I would not be comfortable using these values of bias as accurate. I understand about minimum levels etc, but there is more to a circuit than a bias level.

I have unsuccessfully tried to find, or buy a recent manual for the FT897D. I have an old pdf for a FT897, but things have changed since that model.

I will put my FT897Ds' on my spectrum analyser with a two tone signal and check the IMD, just to be sure, as you suggest.

Do you have a set of bias current levels for recent FT897D models obtained from a recent yaesu service manual. If so, would you be so kind as to post them.

Oh, and to keep in the spirit of this thread, also provide instructions of which color test lead to plug into the positive socket of the walmart multimeter! (LOL).

AB4D - most humorous post!

Tnx Pedro and 73s.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KB1SNJ on March 28, 2010, 04:42:09 PM
The sensational headline grabbed me, now I feel like I need a shower.

Anyway, there was (possibly or probably) a kernel of useful ham related tech info by the OP and some follow-on replies.

In the future, a better headline might be "Yeasu factory units out of adjustment, here is the fix"

Then publish the fix, in as simple and linear terms as possible since some of us are new hams.

As to opening the radio, todats smt/ic based rigs especially compact ones can be intimidating. It's not like th spread out, simpler tube radios of the past. Personally, I would still like to learn. I have both a 706Mk2g as ell as a 7000 and would love the opportunity to be shown how to check what could be checked and possibly improve the results.


As to the O/T stuff, I am proud to be an American. I feel that we as a nation do things big, big mistakes but big progress and big contributions. Our founders introduced the idea that Liberty is God-given, and inalienable and we have fought for that ideal ever since. I value that. We have been a force for GOOD especially throughout the 20th century. Because of our wealth and unwavering dedication to the principles laid out by our founders of Liberty, we have helped our European friends avoid having to speak both German AND Russian, don't forget the bill for winning the cold war (when no one else would have been able to) is a big part of our national debt - a current issue we are trying to deal with.

On radio's, even though I am a new ham, I still think my 7000's transmitter is more than a "President Lincoln CB Rig". I have made contacts throughout the world, something the CB probably wouldnt do as well.

There are blogs for political stuff and a place to argue. This ham-community isnt one of them, in my opinion.

Let's stay on topic and be helpful.

State the problem, and the solution and see how many are helped.

If there is opportunity for me to check my 706 or 7000 for some of these same adjustment issues, I would like to learn about that.

73's


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KD8MJR on March 31, 2010, 02:33:03 PM
My 857D has been working great, I love the radio I have made contacts to almost every part of the world with this rig and so far it has not blown up ;D

Sensational post, with little evidence, if the OP had opened 10 radios and said that 3 of them were not biased properly I would be worried; but his one radio example means nothing.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: K4DPK on March 31, 2010, 09:24:59 PM
I work a lot of CW.

For those of you unfamiliar with that term, it involves the encoding and decoding of carrier pulses, patterned to represent specific alphabetical and numerical characters, which of course yield words and other information.

In the past year, I have logged seven (7) stations to whom I gave a report of K, or key clicks.

Every one of them was using a Yaesu transceiver.  Two of them were FT-1000s.  The rest were 857s or 847s.

Improper biasing can be a cause of key clicks, as well as a generator of audio distortion.

Phil C. Sr.
k4dpk


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: STAYVERTICAL on April 01, 2010, 12:50:02 AM
Hi Phil,

Thank you for the explanation of CW.
I have always wondered how CW encoded information, since CW stands for continuous wave.

As regards the key clicks on yaesu transceivers, please don't think me too critical, but your route between cause and effect is full of logical errors.
If you care to look some up they include:
Bad analogy, excluded middle and reductive fallacy.
I will now use the "argument from authority" myself, I used to be a ships sparky, so morse is second nature to me as well.

You have not given the sample size, the signal levels, the way of generating CW (direct cw or AFSK) or any of a myriad of factors which would make your statement provable.

If you look on the net, you will find numerous articles on the cause of key clicks.
There are, for example, issues on ICOM rigs with the ALC causing clicks when running on reduced power.
Yaesu rates mentions as well of course, as do elecraft and most other rigs.

Now, fun aside, as numerous other posters have stated, we are waiting for Pedro to post some recent bias levels from a recent manual so that we can check our rigs.

He made a mistake by letting the thread lurch into an America bashing exercise, but that can be corrected, if he cares to post.
You may say many things about Americans, but one thing they have not had taken away from them is their patriotism.
I understand that in the EU zone, patriotism is seen as a bit of a demon, as it has been instrumental in many wars, but being proud of your country should not be something of which you are ashamed.
Particularly when that freedom has been bought with the blood of its soldiers.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: HAMMYGUY on April 02, 2010, 09:15:44 PM
I certainly don't consider these rigs time bombs and I do own an 897. VG rigs overall.  

However the OP has made a valid point about overheating.  I have purchased two used 897's in the past, both had bad VHF/UHF finals. One was only few months old. Almost as bad as the old version FT-817's.  Any significant mismatch and POP goes the finals.  I've replaced at least four of those final boards over the years.  No they weren't modded for 10 watts.

So Yaesu does have a bad track record relating to burned out final transistors in this series of rigs.  No not everybody will have this experience, and most probably won't.  But that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: AE5NE on April 05, 2010, 10:45:22 AM
With my recent experience having the EEPROM trim values in the service menu randomly change, I am wondering if these problems are a result of this corruption.

They might be fine at the factory, then the EEPROM data gets corrupted and they are out of spec for bias or whatever.

Still a problem, even if that's the cause.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: K1DA on April 09, 2010, 12:47:40 PM
The snarkey little twerp  seems to forget that the radios are made in Japan, not in the USA  and boy have I heard some LOUSY signals out of Europe, especially Italy.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: K1DA on April 09, 2010, 12:51:06 PM
Does anyone MAKE any radios in his little US liberated part of the world to compare?  BTW 5 KC deviation rather than 3, OMG what a disaster.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: K1DA on April 09, 2010, 12:53:35 PM
THis moron dumps on Yaesu gear and then brags about how many he owns...what is wrong with THAT picture???


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: ON7WP on April 09, 2010, 01:18:55 PM
I am not complaining about ALL Yaesu gear, just warning about problems with the 857/897 radios.

The bias problem continues after all these years, all new radios also suffer from bad adjustment.  Yaesu service manual recommended settings are on the low end for the predrivers.  If you have the equipment, check with dual tone.  The website www.mods.dk has some good info on this topic.  Certainly check the VHF-UHF final as this one is usually to high.

I have nothing against Japanese radios, most are fine and better value for money than 95% of what is made in the US.  Ten-tec is over 20 years behind on the Japanese radios.  Elecraft is good but old fashioned design.  Most amazing observation I made is Hygain advertising the same ad on antennas for over 20 years in QST.  These guys are really standing still.  European antenna designs like optibeam are blasting these old pieces of aluminum away by several dB's.
Currently the state of the art HF radio is made in Switserland (!) and it is a lot cheaper than the Icom and Yaesu high end crap.  Look on the web for ADAT ADT-200A.  This radio has an S-meter that stands up against a high end spectrum analyser for just 5000 $

Sorry for my bad feelings against US made radio equipment but I just bought my third bunch of Professional microwave equipment there in three years and all ended up being crappy, having really bad specs or horrifying spectral output.  Next week I will be out doing another factory visit over there and I am already afraid what we are going to discover.

But I keep an open mind and give everybody chances.

And gentleman, please stop talking about things that happened 65 years ago.  I wasn't even born yet then.

I live now and see what our respective countries are producing right now.

To end with a patriotic touch: God Bless America and his president, at least they voted for a decent one...  (Yes I am a big fan of Obama...)

Please stick to the item, and if you have comments publish them with a funny touch like I do, do not insult people, even not if they are American :-)


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: STAYVERTICAL on April 09, 2010, 09:58:19 PM
Hi Pedro,
Nice to see you back.
The swiss radio is interesting, but that front panel!
It would look nice in a 1960's cafe.
As regards technology, that ADAT radio relies entirely on advanced DSP chips for its operation.
Those DSP chips are Analog Devices Inc chips, an American company.

I wonder how they managed to put together those chips while scraping the roadkill off the road :)


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KF6QEX on April 12, 2010, 04:06:03 AM
Quote
As regards technology, that ADAT radio relies entirely on advanced DSP chips for its operation.
Those DSP chips are Analog Devices Inc chips, an American company.

It goes to show you, it's the painter and not the paint that makes a great painting.
But that's a subject for another thread :)





Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: FORMER_K0PD on April 13, 2010, 11:10:03 AM
Pedro ON7WP i was not going to respond to the radio discussion here as i did own a 897 at one time and it performed flawlessly and sorry i did not keep it. But your remark about Americas military making a Mess out of Iraq and Afghanistan i took very personal. I have two sons who fought over their and one was wounded and the other a Special forces soldier served three tours over there. And what i want to say it is not our fighting men that caused this mess your accusing us of but our politicians listening to your various european countries whining and afraid to make the Muslims angry that caused this mess that actually they the Iraquis and people of Afghanistan brought on there selves. Trust me and pray you never have to see it but we could have in a matter of days physically eliminated both those countries and there people. So with that said and i have no doubts nor questions of your technical knowledge lets just keep it at that a tech discussion and i personally really do not find the smart alec comments funny posted by others here. I'm sure you all know what was meant by the term used time bomb.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: FORMER_K0PD on April 13, 2010, 11:12:21 AM
Pedro ON7WP i was not going to respond to the radio discussion here as i did own a 897 at one time and it performed flawlessly and sorry i did not keep it. But your remark about Americas military making a Mess out of Iraq and Afghanistan i took very personal. I have two sons who fought over their and one was wounded and the other a Special forces soldier served three tours over there. And what i want to say it is not our fighting men that caused this mess your accusing us of but our politicians listening to your various european countries whining and afraid to make the Muslims angry that caused this mess that actually they the Iraquis and people of Afghanistan brought on there selves. Trust me and pray you never have to see it but we could have in a matter of days physically eliminated both those countries and there people. So with that said and i have no doubts nor questions of your technical knowledge lets just keep it at that a tech discussion and i personally really do not find the smart alec comments funny posted by others here. I'm sure you all know what was meant by the term used time bomb.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: FORMER_K0PD on April 13, 2010, 11:12:23 AM
Pedro ON7WP i was not going to respond to the radio discussion here as i did own a 897 at one time and it performed flawlessly and sorry i did not keep it. But your remark about Americas military making a Mess out of Iraq and Afghanistan i took very personal. I have two sons who fought over their and one was wounded and the other a Special forces soldier served three tours over there. And what i want to say it is not our fighting men that caused this mess your accusing us of but our politicians listening to your various european countries whining and afraid to make the Muslims angry that caused this mess that actually they the Iraquis and people of Afghanistan brought on there selves. Trust me and pray you never have to see it but we could have in a matter of days physically eliminated both those countries and there people. So with that said and i have no doubts nor questions of your technical knowledge lets just keep it at that a tech discussion and i personally really do not find the smart alec comments funny posted by others here. I'm sure you all know what was meant by the term used time bomb.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KF6QEX on April 13, 2010, 03:08:32 PM
Quote
I'm sure you all know what was meant by the term used time bomb.
I took it to mean the finals will "blow".

The supermarket checkout stands are filled with publications using sensational titles.
While in a ham forum I read the words in the context of ham radio, electronics, phycics, chemistry mechanics, weather, propagation and whatever other discipline is involved in getting signal out back and forth.

So if I read that someone got a "dirty radio" off of Ebay, I will think dust and crud before I panic that there was a plutonium rod in the radio.






 


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: STAYVERTICAL on April 13, 2010, 06:09:10 PM
"So if I read that someone got a "dirty radio" off of Ebay, I will think dust and crud before I panic that there was a plutonium rod in the radio."

I guess that would make it a radioactive transceiver!

73s


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: VE2ITZ on April 14, 2010, 05:45:37 AM
Some people are just born to "bitch and complain".

It has nothing to do with "those Japanese engineers."

For all that matters they might even be American, Indian, who knows....In these times of globalisation the world is such a small place full of surprises.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: VE2ITZ on April 14, 2010, 06:04:28 AM
It would be much nicer  to stop blaming "those"

You seem to be a specialist in blaming others and putting certain groups like Japanese and americans as people that do not know what they are doing.

This is a mistake. This is called ignorance.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: WY3X on April 18, 2010, 09:06:27 AM
>(Yes I am a big fan of Obama...)

Oh, you're pro-communism. That explains a lot about your attitude. Communists (liberal democrats) are quite prone to hurling profane insults toward anyone who doesn't agree with them. Never a rational disagreement, and very little in the way of an valid explanation. It's a bit like a BASIC endless loop program.

10 HEAR CONSERVATIVE OPEN MOUTH
20 HURL INSULT
30 IF SATISFIED WITH RESULT, GOTO 10
40 IF NOT SATISFIED WITH RESULT, GOTO 20

In other words, the insults never end, and democrats (a.k.a. communists) are never happy or satisfied. Even when they get the changes they want, they're still not happy. An inch is not enough. They absolutely MUST possess the entire yardstick, and even that's not enough!

FWIW, one survey on America's approval rating for Obama is down to around 9.8%. In other words, 90.2% think he's doing a bad job! SOURCE: http://www.civicscience.com

-AJ4VM


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: N3OX on April 18, 2010, 10:01:29 AM
not a political forum.



















Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: STAYVERTICAL on April 18, 2010, 03:52:44 PM
An author who studied the behavior of societies called Le Bon, wrote a book called "The crowd" (Free on Gutenberg). It describes how to control societies and one of its prime postulates is that a society decays and falls apart when its accumulated cultural history is destroyed. In other words, take away the peoples cultural identity, then they are without a rudder, and the society falls apart, and can be remade in another guise.
This covert process is certainly taking place and it may be "political" but it intimately affects each one of us.
Ham radio will be outlawed in the name of "National security" when the process is complete.
Totalitarian regimes, want to be the only religion, the only source of information, and control.
Remember taxation as we know it was only put in 100 years ago and in the name of "tax the rich", but it never stays that way.
As an aside, both Mussolini and Hitler read "The crowd" by Le Bon and used its ideas to control the population (big hypnotic marches etc).

On the Flowchart (LOL). But soooo true.


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: WY3X on April 19, 2010, 08:47:06 AM
Tell that to ON7WP, the originator of the thread, who began hurling political insults early-on. -AJ4VM


Title: RE: Yaesu sells time bombs !!! FT857 FT897 ....
Post by: KD8HMO on May 11, 2010, 07:04:30 PM
After the problems I have had with my brand new VX-7R this week, I wonder if there is any merit to the OP's quality control complaints. If my warranty replacement has the same problems, Im going to dump it in Dayton this weekend, after I hammer on the Yaesu techs there about it...