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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: WB5EAT on January 07, 2011, 03:04:51 PM



Title: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: WB5EAT on January 07, 2011, 03:04:51 PM
There was a time when the quality of radios made in Japan was pretty good . Good enought
that American Mfgrs. lost market share . Now Japan wants to sub contract their stuff to China and still charge high prices . China makes crap !
It's time for America to produce a good VHF/UHF mobile radio . One without the cheap phone plug mike chords and the noisy recievers . It will cost more i am sure , but it would sell if it weren't a rip off product . Step up America and win back what you allowed the politicians to sell off .


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: N0ZNA on January 07, 2011, 06:14:52 PM
Everything is made overseas,and more companys are leaving everyday.The only radio that is made here is TenTec,and only HF...not  VHF-UHF...73s de n0zna/John


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: KH6AQ on January 07, 2011, 07:09:48 PM
Don't forget Elecraft. It's made in the USA. And Ameritron. And MFJ. And Vibroplex.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K1CJS on January 08, 2011, 04:24:33 AM
Moot points.  A lot of the parts used in "American" made radio are made overseas, just like a lot of the car parts used in "American" cars these days.  Big business has made their choice, aided by the American worker and American government regulation.  Forget about seeing much of anything that is totally 'made in the US' these days.  It ain't happening anymore.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: KH6AQ on January 08, 2011, 04:37:20 AM
Myth alert!

American manufacturing output is the highest in the world. How about the components in your PC? The Microprocessor, memory and many of the power supply ICs are made right here in the USA. Where did the manufacturing jobs go? Productivity is the main answer. It takes less workers in 2010 to produce more manufacturered goods than where produced in 2000.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010020825/no-virginia-us-manufacturing-isnt-dead



Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: TANAKASAN on January 08, 2011, 06:23:36 AM
It's pure coincidence but this morning I built a computer for someone from the parts. The Intel CPU was manufactured in Israel and the Samsung memory was made in South Korea. The motherboard and hard drive were manufactured in China and the DVD drive came from Romania. It's a small planet.

As for USA manufactured VHF/UHF sets I'm not sure if Motorola are still in the business but they're the only company that springs to mind apart from Harris who produce military gear.

Tanakasan


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K0BG on January 08, 2011, 01:43:59 PM
Apparently, no one watches the news. It appears Dell is spending $100 mil on a new plant in China. The net result is, 900 US jobs lost!


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: NO2A on January 08, 2011, 02:56:10 PM
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I  once saw that read,"Out of work?,hungry? Eat your foreign car!".......................... ::)


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: KC8IUR on January 08, 2011, 04:16:54 PM
My foreign car is made of 98% NA content and is assembled in Texas.

I would really like to be able to buy a HT made in the U.S.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: AA4PB on January 08, 2011, 04:23:52 PM
I don't know where you get your computers, but the processor, memory, chip sets, capacitors, resistors, etc in mine are mostly made in China with some from Mexico.

Even if you purchase an item "made in USA" from Ten Tec or Elecraft, the vast majority of components in it are made overseas. Maybe they should change the label to "final assembly in the USA" or "sold in the USA".


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K0BG on January 09, 2011, 07:18:54 AM
Bob, how about duped in the USA? Or maybe, NAFTA'd in the USA?


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K1CJS on January 09, 2011, 07:50:40 AM
How about simply 'Most parts made anywhere BUT in the USA!'


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: KH6AQ on January 09, 2011, 08:21:06 AM
I don't know where you get your computers, but the processor, memory, chip sets, capacitors, resistors, etc in mine are mostly made in China with some from Mexico.

There are no semi-conductor plants in China making PC microprocessors or memory. Yet. They do have test and assembly plants in China that take the finished die and "package" it. The "made in" mark is attached to the final assembly.

The real guts of the Microprocessor - the die - is made in the US by Intel. Intel makes the chip sets in the US. Intel is by far the world's largest semiconductor manufacturer. The memory is most likely Micron (Boise, Idaho) or Samsung (South Korea). But because labor costs are lower in China semiconductor manufacturing will move there. A memory plant is being constructed in China right now.  

As pointed out, US manufacturing is alive and well but it is changing. The US makes the high-end stuff that the world wants. Every electronics manufacturer I have worked for has exported over half their production.

The reduction in manufacturing jobs, due mainly to increases in productivty, is falsely portrayed by polititians as the fault of the other political party. Why are the low-end manufacturing jobs leaving the US? Lower manufacturing costs in China and an improper exchange rate. Why are Japanese cars manufactured in the US? Lower manufacturing costs here than in Japan. When manufacturing costs in China become prohibitive plants will be built elsewhere (Africa?).



Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: N0YXB on January 09, 2011, 10:40:17 AM
Good post David.  Unfortunately many don't understand economics basics and just repeat nonsense spewed by politicians or the media.  The upside of the dollar's lower value compared to other currencies means more U.S. goods are being exported. Our improvements in worker productivity plays into this too.  Although China is cheating when it comes to currency valuation, their economic success will eventually cause them the same problems we've experienced.  As they become more affluent, the rising cost of labor will cause China to outsource labor to other countries (perhaps India, Burma, etc) and they will experience exactly what the U.S. has experienced in regards to their manufacturing sector.  Fortunately, there are manufacturing niches that America is successfully exploiting.  Ten-Tec and Elecraft come to mind.  It's not all gloom and doom when it comes to American manufacturing.  To those who want to complain that globalization is destroying America, one question, do you shop at Wal-Mart?  If so you may want to rethink that.  I am frequently amused by those who tout, “Buy American”, yet every week load their “American cars” with items purchased at Wal-Mart.   


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: W3LK on January 09, 2011, 11:49:36 AM
To those who want to complain that globalization is destroying America, one question, do you shop at Wal-Mart?  If so you may want to rethink that.  I am frequently amused by those who tout, “Buy American”, yet every week load their “American cars” with items purchased at Wal-Mart.   

Before you start on a WalMart Is Evil rant, I suggest you look at Sears, Target, Home Depot, Lowes and just about every other big-box retailer and see where the overwhelming majority of their products are manufactured - EXACTLY the same places as WalMart items are made.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K0BG on January 09, 2011, 03:20:06 PM
Just to add insult to injury, or fuel to the fire, which ever suits you....

Let's thank the prez who signed the NAFTA agreement. Give that man a cigar!


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: ONAIR on January 09, 2011, 07:27:48 PM
Don't worry!  Foreigners are starting to buy all of our bargain real estate, so at least we'll get something back!


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: KH6AQ on January 10, 2011, 07:47:12 AM
Just to add insult to injury, or fuel to the fire, which ever suits you....

Let's thank the prez who signed the NAFTA agreement. Give that man a cigar!

Yes, thanks H.W. Bush for signing NAFTA on Dec. 17, 1992.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K1CJS on January 10, 2011, 09:04:01 AM
Before you start on a WalMart Is Evil rant, I suggest you look at Sears, Target, Home Depot, Lowes and just about every other big-box retailer and see where the overwhelming majority of their products are manufactured - EXACTLY the same places as WalMart items are made.

True enough--but the evil really comes from something in Wal-Marts history.  The claims loudly made by Sam Walton when Wal-Mart was expanding.  "Made in America by Americans".  When Sam passed on, that philosophy was quickly dumped by the Wal-Mart board of directors.  All they wanted to see was a large bottom line--to fuel their ever growing expansion.

These days, the cheapest of the cheap is what you find at Wal-Mart.  Even though other 'big box' stores sells foreign made things, somehow the quality of those things seems to be better than the junk Wal-Mart sells, and that is because Wal-Mart uses their buying power to get things made more cheaply--and the Chinese aren't dummies.  When they make things more cheaply, THEY MAKE THEM CHEAPER!


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: AA4PB on January 10, 2011, 09:33:17 AM
That's odd. When I look in my local WalMart store I see the same brand name stuff that I see in all the other stores. Cell phones, cameras, TV sets, small kitchen appliances, computers, vacuums, etc - all the same names.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: W3LK on January 10, 2011, 01:53:40 PM
That's odd. When I look in my local WalMart store I see the same brand name stuff that I see in all the other stores. Cell phones, cameras, TV sets, small kitchen appliances, computers, vacuums, etc - all the same names.


Yup, and in many cases, WM is NOT the most inexpensive. My recent purchase of a flat screen TV and Home Theater sound system is a case in point. In both cases, WM was more expensive that Best Buy.



Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: NO2A on January 10, 2011, 06:13:21 PM
My foreign car is made of 98% NA content and is assembled in Texas.

I would really like to be able to buy a HT made in the U.S.
But ultimately the money supports Japan,or whatever country you`re supporting,doesn`t it?


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K1CJS on January 11, 2011, 04:31:04 AM
That's odd. When I look in my local WalMart store I see the same brand name stuff that I see in all the other stores. Cell phones, cameras, TV sets, small kitchen appliances, computers, vacuums, etc - all the same names.

My suggestion is to look closer.  The Wal-Mart item will be another model number, a similar enough model, but with features missing--or just more cheaply made.  Thinner shells, permanently connected cord instead of a connector, etc.  Yes, I've noticed that too many of the name brands are following the Wal-Mart lead and are getting things made in China with their name on it.  It just may be that the rest of the retailers are catching up since so many Americans are looking for lowest cost--without caring that the items won't last as long and they'll be paying out MORE in the near future instead of enjoying the use of a quality product for a longer time.

A good example is this--I bought a BLACK & DECKER quarter inch drill recently that didn't last a year, but a MILWAUKEE 1/2 inch drill that I bought twenty five years ago is still going strong!  The B&D drill was used for all light duty work while the Milwaukee is used--and sometimes abused.  You can get the picture.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: KC8IUR on January 11, 2011, 10:42:02 AM
My foreign car is made of 98% NA content and is assembled in Texas.

I would really like to be able to buy a HT made in the U.S.
But ultimately the money supports Japan,or whatever country you`re supporting,doesn`t it?

It supports engineers and corporate heads in Japan. But it also supports blue collar workers and some white collar sub-contracted design work in NA as well. For instance, there is an injection molding company in Indiana, whos name escapes me at the moment, that is the world leader in fuel tank design. Previously, Toyota said "make this tank like this, we don't care what your engineers say" and was then liable for the tank leaking. Now Toyota says "make us a tank that fills this space on this vehicle" and the Indiana firm does. It's not as cut and dried as what badge is on your product.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: W3LK on January 11, 2011, 01:25:51 PM


My suggestion is to look closer.  The Wal-Mart item will be another model number, a similar enough model, but with features missing--or just more cheaply made.  Thinner shells, permanently connected cord instead of a connector, etc.  Yes, I've noticed that too many of the name brands are following the Wal-Mart lead and are getting things made in China with their name on it.  It just may be that the rest of the retailers are catching up since so many Americans are looking for lowest cost--without caring that the items won't last as long and they'll be paying out MORE in the near future instead of enjoying the use of a quality product for a longer time.

Sorry, Charlie, but I have done enough comparative shopping over the last 10 years to know that this is an inaccurate statement. I match model number for model number, and on name brand items, there is no difference. As for manufacturing in China, it was happening a long time before WalMart became as big as it is. Whether you and I like it or not, China is a major player in the manufacturing market and will likely surpass the US within the next five years. Again,  before you bash WM, look at where Sears, Home Depot, Lowes and the other mass market company get their products - especially their house brands, Even the Craftsman label from Sears is no longer US-made.

The EXACT same TV set I bought from Best Buy was available from WM for $50 more. Another brand (again, exact same model number) was slightly cheaper at WM than BB. You don't want to shop at WM, that's your choice, but don't try to paint them as somehow evil, unless you are going to paint every other major retailer with the same brush.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: KC8IUR on January 11, 2011, 01:27:59 PM
Craftsman lawn equipment is all made in Cleveland, Ohio.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: NO2A on January 11, 2011, 02:13:17 PM
I`ve also heard that the John Deere tractors sold at Home Depot are not as good as the ones sold at their own dealers`stores. Has anyone else heard this? Please say it `aint so...


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: KC2TOO on January 11, 2011, 03:52:31 PM
Sorry, but after working on them, its true.

My wife and I refuse to shop at wal-mart, look at every label on what we buy, etc, etc. It's a global economy though... These days you can't actually "buy American".  As much as I like my Ten tec, or my Gravely, or my Aladdin lamp (The mantle in it isn't made here...Pesky environmental laws... what's a little thorium in the ground?), you try finding an all American radio, or an all American tractor, or an all American lamp these days. It ultimately comes down to cost. Compare an Yaesu with something similar from Ten Tec. Compare a Mahindra to a John Deere. Do this while you are on a limited budget and needing to get a job done. You, and everybody else, does what they have to.

There's a reason my radio is old, my tractor is older, and my lamp is even older.

73, KC2TOO


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: AA4PB on January 11, 2011, 04:03:37 PM
I`ve also heard that the John Deere tractors sold at Home Depot are not as good as the ones sold at their own dealers`stores. Has anyone else heard this? Please say it `aint so...
It aint so. They are exactly the same model number and the local Home Depot has their John Deere setup and service done by the local John Deere dealer.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: AA4PB on January 11, 2011, 04:10:53 PM
"My suggestion is to look closer"

So you are telling me that Philco, for example, makes an inferior product for Wall Mart and puts the same model number and the Philco name on it? I don't believe it. Companies will sometimes make inferior stuff for sale under a different brand but they aren't going to risk their own name - not even for Wal Mart.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: N2EY on January 11, 2011, 04:41:37 PM
It ultimately comes down to cost. Compare an Yaesu with something similar from Ten Tec. Compare a Mahindra to a John Deere. Do this while you are on a limited budget and needing to get a job done. You, and everybody else, does what they have to.

There's a reason my radio is old, my tractor is older, and my lamp is even older.

There's also a reason we're on limited budgets.

"Global economy" and such buzzwords don't change the facts. The USA has been steadily shipping good jobs and vital industries out of the country for short term gain. But in the long term it has cost us.

Lost jobs are an obvious result. But there's more.

By running a trade deficit, we are slowly but surely shipping wealth created here to other countries.

By eliminating industries, we eliminate the knowledge/skills associated with them. Why learn a trade or profession if there are no jobs in it?

By becoming more and more dependent on imports, our very freedom and way of life are endangered. (The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 was the direct result of FDR's embargo of oil, steel, electronics and raw materials. Japan could not keep doing what they were doing back then without those supplies).

Sure, the labor in some other countries is a little cheaper. But there's the cost of long-distance transportation, too. And the inability to repair many things, which clogs up the waste stream.

What the sellers of all this stuff won't tell you is just how much more it would cost to make something in the USA. Or how many American jobs would be created, thereby increasing the tax base. Or what the long-term benefits would be with Made In USA.

As for NAFTA, it only covers North America.

Sure, a Yaesu may be a little less expensive than a Ten Tec. A big part of the reason is that the Japanese trade policies and tax laws are set up to protect their workers and businesses from foreign competition, while American policies aren't.

Last of all - if we ship all the industries out of the country, what are American workers supposed to do for a living? Everyone can't be a doctor, lawyer, teacher or government worker etc.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: N3JBH on January 12, 2011, 09:22:23 AM
I`ve also heard that the John Deere tractors sold at Home Depot are not as good as the ones sold at their own dealers`stores. Has anyone else heard this? Please say it `aint so...

The local John Deere dealer here sells both agriculture and lawn and garden tractors, what i have noticed is the line of equipment they carry is for the most part more robust in the build strength and the price reflects it. they do carry some of the lower level lines carried by the so called big box stores.  but most of the tractors are much beefier built having diesel engines or quality gas engines in them.
seldom do you find them under $5000.00 dollars there serious high end garden type tractors with 5 lug axles.  and such. I guess or maybe assume Walmart ,home depot etc do not cater to this market there more geared toward the small yard types you know the 1 maybe 2 or 3 acre yard types. that are perfectly happy spending $2000.00 on a small tractor that simply cuts and mulches the yard. and that's fine i bet there tractor wont be running 28 years latter like my  Big cub  but spends your money and get what ya pays for Jeff


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K1CJS on January 12, 2011, 09:54:31 AM
Sorry, Charlie, but I have done enough comparative shopping over the last 10 years to know that this is an inaccurate statement. I match model number for model number, and on name brand items, there is no difference. As for manufacturing in China, it was happening a long time before WalMart became as big as it is. Whether you and I like it or not, China is a major player in the manufacturing market and will likely surpass the US within the next five years. Again,  before you bash WM, look at where Sears, Home Depot, Lowes and the other mass market company get their products - especially their house brands, Even the Craftsman label from Sears is no longer US-made.

The EXACT same TV set I bought from Best Buy was available from WM for $50 more. Another brand (again, exact same model number) was slightly cheaper at WM than BB. You don't want to shop at WM, that's your choice, but don't try to paint them as somehow evil, unless you are going to paint every other major retailer with the same brush.

Hey Louis, I didn't say ALL of the merchandise was as such.  Some of it is.  And you're not going to tell me that Wal-Mart didn't build its business on cheap, mass produced stuff that people in their right mind would NOT have bought a couple of decades ago.

Hey--Wal-Mart has their place.  It's just unfortunate that they've 'run over and killed' so much of their competition while they built their empire.  And you're right--more retailers are buying the cheap stuff and selling it, since most Amreican people today aren't giving a darn as to where they're sending their money.  Wal-Mart isn't alone anymore.  But they are the 'standard' that has forced the other retailers to follow them.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: VE7DQ on January 13, 2011, 11:54:03 PM
Unfortunately, many (most?) North Americans are more concerned with price than source or quality.  This Wal-mart mentality has already invaded ham radio.  Notice the recent infatuation with the cheap chicomm VHF/UHF radios.  I suspect that much of the technology for these radios was reverse-engineered from Japanese examples, with little R&D co$t, and that they are being dumped in North America to queer the market.

A US-made VHF/UHF radio would, in all probability, be doomed to failure, simply because it would be more expensive to produce, and, even if it was feature-rich, would be competing with similar, cheaper, established import radios.

Just as the US has lost most of its ham radio engineering and manufacturing base to Japan, Japan's ham radio industry could be further distressed by these cheap chinese knockoffs.  What happens when YaeComWood et al decide that declining ham production is no longer viable in Japan because they are being undercut by chinese marketing practices?

Who would you rather support with your dollars?  Japan or China?  An ally or a potential opponent?  China's runaway economy and military buildup (both supported by OUR transferred wealth) are... troubling.

You won't find any significant chinese stuff in my shack, at any price, if I can avoid it. 

Long live the few North American and Japanese manufacturers we presently have!


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: W3LK on January 14, 2011, 12:06:32 PM

Hey--Wal-Mart has their place.  It's just unfortunate that they've 'run over and killed' so much of their competition while they built their empire.  And you're right--more retailers are buying the cheap stuff and selling it, since most Amreican people today aren't giving a darn as to where they're sending their money.  Wal-Mart isn't alone anymore.  But they are the 'standard' that has forced the other retailers to follow them.

Just like HRO, AES and the other (primarily) Internet-sales based retailers have killed off the mom and pop ham stores; national and regional chain grocery stores have killed off the mom and pop grocery stores; Home Depot and Lowes have killed off the mom and pop hardware stores ... take your choice, mass-marketing always does in the small retailer.

If a retailer has what I want at a price I am willing to pay, then I am pretty much unconcerned with where the product is made. Like many other things, you have have low prices, product availability or touchy-feely customer service - just not all three at the same place.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: KC8IUR on January 14, 2011, 12:25:06 PM
But AES *is* my local mom and pop.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: W3JKS on January 14, 2011, 01:40:41 PM
You can buy an American-made HF-UHF radio (2 MHz - 2 GHz) from Boeing.  They would be happy to sell you one right now since the Pentagon is having second-thoughts about buying many of them.  Of course, they don't work very well, the voice quality is not all that good (Army's tests, mind you) and they cost over $300,000 EACH.

Knock yourself out. 

73,
john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAM3RE/AAA9SL


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: N2EY on January 14, 2011, 01:55:50 PM
If a retailer has what I want at a price I am willing to pay, then I am pretty much unconcerned with where the product is made.

I think a lot of Americans think the same way. Until the consequences catch up to them.

What I have seen happen in the USA for the past 30-odd years is the slow but steady dismantling of the middle class, done by small changes that have added up over time.

I think we've been sold a short-term bag of defective goods that winds up costing us all more in the long run.

Like many other things, you have have low prices, product availability or touchy-feely customer service - just not all three at the same place.

But the Wal-Mart method goes far beyond that.

Check out this documentary (it's on Netflix):

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

Consider also these questions:

Should it matter to the customer if a product they buy is made by exploited/abused workers?

Should it matter to the customer if their country has a consistent trade deficit?

Should it matter to the customer if entire industries where their country used to be a world leader are being shipped away, so that they no longer have a choice?

Is it possible for a country which is highly dependent on imports to maintain its independence and freedom if there are serious disagreements with the countries that supply it?

I'm not against trade or a global economy, when both parties benefit. But it seems to me that there's more to it than a race to the bottom.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: AD4U on January 14, 2011, 02:37:00 PM
Don't worry!  Foreigners are starting to buy all of our bargain real estate, so at least we'll get something back!

Foreigners can buy every piece of land in the USA, but they can't take it home with them.

Dick  AD4U


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: N2EY on January 14, 2011, 02:54:23 PM
Foreigners can buy every piece of land in the USA, but they can't take it home with them.

No, they can't.

But they can take home the rent.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K0BG on January 14, 2011, 03:55:01 PM
One thing to keep in mind is tiering.

Most major brands of consumer electronics have three tiers (levels if you please) of products. For sake of argument, lets call them good, better, and best. The good stuff is marketed (sold in consumer parlance) by just about anyone who has the money to purchase goods. The second tier (better) is sold by retailers like Best Buy, in some cases Walmart, Value Source, Rex, and similar outlets. The best stuff is sold by ListenUp, Sound Solutions, and other high-end electronic retailers.

Typically, the top of the good tier, has the same features as the low end of the better tier. They may, or may not, have the same part number. The same goes for the better, and best tiers. It should be noted that the pricing is similarly situated, and in some cases you're better off buying the lessor of one tier, than the best of a lower tier. It just depends on the marketplace any individual company aims at. As a result, it's a shopper's nightmare! Thus, anyone, buying consumer electronics needs the ability to read between the lines.

There are guides to follow, and a few of them are: Make sure you read the model nomenclature very carefully. For example, one model might have a part number of KV43UV3, and another KV43VU3.  It is not uncommon to transpose features in a list of features. This is meant to purposely confuse the consumer. Again, read very carefully, and make sure the device you're buying has the exact features you want!

As for some models having wired in plugs, while a better model a computer type cord, that's hogwash! These guys are in the business to make money. Designing models which use the same basic configuration, with daughter boards, or missing parts in one model vs. another, is part of the strategy. Using different hardware does the opposite.

Lastly, it should be mentioned that the price you pay doesn't mean squat! Make that double squat!!! Consumer electronics always have at least 35 points of profit. It is not uncommon to have discount structure from MSLP of 35, 20, and 10. So the next time you see some super-duper 35% discount from Walmart, know that they are still making over 25% on the sales price!

Caveat emptor and then some!






Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K1CJS on January 14, 2011, 04:56:28 PM

.....As for some models having wired in plugs, while a better model a computer type cord, that's hogwash! These guys are in the business to make money. Designing models which use the same basic configuration, with daughter boards, or missing parts in one model vs. another, is part of the strategy. Using different hardware does the opposite.....


Oh really, Alan?  Are you telling me that cheaper models do NOT leave out parts meant for convenience in the more expensive models?  If so, YOU are the one spouting hogwash.  That's the whole idea behind creating lower priced models for your bottom tier.  The extra parts used for the convenience or for extra function are eliminated or reduced, and that lowers the costs.  The ideas that they'll include the parts that are not needed for the basic functioning of the appliance or device and just lower the price to call it lower tier is hogwash.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K1CJS on January 14, 2011, 05:00:47 PM
Lon, you're alone on this one.  Jim and I agree almost exactly.  Americans who are simply looking for the lowest cost on an item without taking into account the origins of the item are selling this country, bit by bit, to the foreign countries and companies who ship their junk over here for the 'gullible Americans' to buy.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: W3LK on January 14, 2011, 06:41:22 PM
Lon, you're alone on this one.  Jim and I agree almost exactly.  Americans who are simply looking for the lowest cost on an item without taking into account the origins of the item are selling this country, bit by bit, to the foreign countries and companies who ship their junk over here for the 'gullible Americans' to buy.

(1) Alone doesn't make me wrong. :)

(2) The overwhelming majority of products sold in this country are made outside the US. This is not going to change, no matter how much one moans and groans about it. Some of you people think this is new; it's not. We have been buying predominantly foreign goods for something over 30+ years now. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. There hasn't been a US-made TV set since the early 70s (if then). Clothing has been coming from India, the Caribbean, Indonesia, Mexico and other places for 30+ years. The majority of tools sold, even at Sears, are made outside the US.

(3) (reference the bold print) I know very few people, in any country, that will willingly spend a measurably larger amount of money to buy something made wholly within their country.

Believe what you want, guys, it won't change reality.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K0BG on January 15, 2011, 10:04:14 AM
Chris, the reason I made that "brash" statement is that it is true.

Almost all consumer electronics are robotic production line items, and everything that can be flow soldered on, is! I'm fortunate enough to have seen first-hand how Hitachi manufacturers flat-screen TVs. Their least expensive model is not corded. This is true of the vast majority of CE devices. If you would have been at CES this year, and took the time to look, you might be surprised at what was there. One of those surprises was the number of flat-screen TVs which had external power supplies.

Lon's comment about buy cheap is true too. How we got there, would take a few tome-sized books.

I'm just glad I'm not still in the business.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: K1CJS on January 17, 2011, 05:04:02 AM
My use of the statement about permanently attached cords versus cord connectors was made as an example, not as fact on each and every thing that is a cheaper version of a product.  Some use cheaper 'cabinets', some leave out extra shielding, (and boy, have we seen complaints about THAT in these forums) some just use parts that are produced with wider tolerances than others, etc., all the way down the line.

And yes, business was being done in the 'Wal-Mart' fashion before Wal-Mart became the industry leader in cutting prices by cutting people's throats, but Wal-Mart took it to an entirely new level.  As Lon had said,

....Believe what you want, guys, it won't change reality.

As he believes that sums up his statements, so do I believe it sums up mine.  73!



Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: WB6DGN on January 19, 2011, 08:26:16 PM
"Sorry, Charlie, but I have done enough comparative shopping over the last 10 years to know that this is an inaccurate statement."

I can't make blanket statements as, in most cases, I haven't explored a product's origin but several years ago I was looking to replace an aged vacuum cleaner with a new one.  Wanting an "American made" product, I chose a Hoover from WalMart, copied the model number and called Hoover to ask some questions and make a comparison with another vendor.  I was told point blank by the Hoover customer service rep. that the WalMart product was made by Hoover TO WAL MART SPECIFICATIONS and, while it looked identical to a Hoover dealer sold product, there were indeed differences between the products, though he couldn't (wouldn't) elaborate on what those differences might be.  I DO know that one of those differences was a considerably longer warranty for the product bought from the Hoover dealer vs. the warranty for the WalMart version.  Would the WalMart product hold up as well as the dealer product I bought?  I have no idea, but the one I bought is doing just fine.  Just one isolated experience but it tells me that there ARE differences, at least in SOME cases.


Title: RE: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios
Post by: AA4PB on January 20, 2011, 06:25:23 AM
"the WalMart product was made by Hoover TO WAL MART SPECIFICATIONS"

Several stores do that, including Sears. What I am saying however, is that the Mfgs will NOT put the exact same model number on the product made to WalMart specifications as they do on their own product. If I find a Hoover model XYZ20 at WalMart it will be the same product as the Hoover XYZ20 sold by other Hoover dealers.

If I can purchase the exact same TV at WalMart for less money than BestBuy, guess where I'm going to purchase it.