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eHam Forums => Elmers => Topic started by: KC9HOZ on May 11, 2011, 10:20:23 AM



Title: Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries
Post by: KC9HOZ on May 11, 2011, 10:20:23 AM
Anyone have any experience with Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries (http://www.saftbatteries.com/Technologies_Lithium_LiSOCl2_303/Default.aspx)?

I stumbled on these earlier today and don't know anything about them (except what I just read in the link above).

They're fairly expensive, especially since they're non-rechargeable.  Should I stick with NiMH rechargeables?

Thanks

Scott
kc9hoz


Title: RE: Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries
Post by: AC5UP on May 11, 2011, 01:14:27 PM
Should I stick with NiMH rechargeables?

Depends on the application... Powering an HT where it doesn't matter if you miss a few hours while the battery pack is on change? NiMH is cost effective and offers a good size-to-capacity ratio. You do biological research in the swamps of Alabama and carry a transponder that's activated whenever you get nailed by a copperhead and have 73 minutes to live...? Might want to consider using the most reliable battery you can find.

Point being is that battery selection depends on the device, duty cycle, need for reliability, anticipated usage level, application environment, etc. Best way to decide is to ask yourself: "if the battery went dead right now, how screwed would I be and what's it worth not to be?"

Years ago the most annoying cost factor in remote TV field production was a dead NiCd battery belt. If you want to find someone willing to pay whatever it takes for maximum reliability, those are the folks most likely. Nothing is more expensive than adding a day to a shooting schedule 'cuz the runtime on a NiCd drops in half at something like 50 degrees F and below or 85 degrees F and above.


Title: RE: Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries
Post by: W8JX on May 11, 2011, 01:48:38 PM
The only place I use Lithium batteries are in remote weather and temperature sensors outdoors that are difficult to service because of location. The do last much longer than alkaline. For radios and cameras  and such I use NiMH in high use items.


Title: RE: Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries
Post by: K2OWK on May 11, 2011, 02:31:19 PM
If you are using an HT. I use a Lithium Ion battery in mine. If I need extended talk time I have two battery packs both fully charged. I can talk for about 4 hours on each pack for a total of 8 hours. I will most likely run out of words by then. What I am saying is unless you have no availability of power for a long period of time a number of fully charged NICADS, NMH or Lithium will serve you for a long time and when you consider that they can be recharged over and over the overall cost is very little compaired to other types of non rechargeable batteries.

73s
K2OWK


Title: RE: Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries
Post by: VA3GUY on May 12, 2011, 09:40:30 AM
SAFT makes probably the best LI-SOCl 2 batteries on the market.  I have used these batteries for a few years now and have worked with a company that Specializes in Lithium Batteries and Analytical Chemistry and I can tell you this:  DO NOT EVER TRY AND CHARGE (or allow any current into) A SPENT BATTERY!  Once the battery has been completely discharged, the contents become 'black powder' and you have a miniature grenade on your hands...if current is pumped into it.  I was at the above mentioned company facility where we purposely (in a 'bang box') did testing on different types of LI-SOCl 2 batteries and believe me, they DO explode quite nice.  Just a word of warning.


Title: RE: Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries
Post by: KZ1X on May 13, 2011, 05:47:43 PM
Just one other word of warning:  besides the cost, and that they're primary cells, they are also Class 9 HAZMAT.  A heat burst releases phosgene gas.  No kidding.

If you're into portable power chemistry, like I am, you might want to check out LiFEPO4 cells.  Lithium ferrophosphate.  They are my current favorite.

Get it?  Current favorite?   heh heh


Title: RE: Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries
Post by: AC5UP on May 13, 2011, 06:43:15 PM
10,000 comedians on unemployment and you're doing bad puns...............  ::)

BTW: The most sadistic CW test ever devised relied on plain text from a Chinese phone book. Almost impossible to pass, but not because of the speed or content. It was the Wong numbers that tripped up most people...


Title: RE: Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries
Post by: K1CJS on May 13, 2011, 07:09:17 PM
You complain about bad puns, then you come out with a joke like that?  Gawd, that one was worse than the pun!


Title: RE: Lithium-thionyl chloride batteries
Post by: AD6KA on May 14, 2011, 06:31:30 AM
Just one other word of warning:  besides the cost, and that they're primary cells, they are also Class 9 HAZMAT.  A heat burst releases phosgene gas.  No kidding.
Yep, any kind of case burst or leak is trouble,  ESPECIALLY with contact with water.
From the Material Data Safety Sheet:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg4/cg432/docs/msds/MSDS_IceBatteries.pdf


**DANGER** INTERNAL CONTENTS ARE EXTREMELY HAZARDOUS. LEAKING FLUID IS CORROSIVE.
BATTERY MAY BE EXPLOSIVE AT HIGHER TEMPERATURES.


Solubility in Water: Thionyl Chloride: Decomposes violently on contact with water.

Water Reactive: Thionyl Chloride hydrolyzes to form SO2 and HCl gasses and strongly acidic wastewater.

Special Fire Fighting Procedures: Cover with Lith-X powder, Class D fire extinguisher, dry lithium chloride, or graphite
powder. DO NOT USE WATER, moist sand, CO2, Class ABC, or soda ash extinguisher. Wear protective breathing apparatus;
a positive pressure Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA), or Air Purifying Respirator (APR).