eHam

eHam Forums => Station Building => Topic started by: AD9DX on December 23, 2013, 05:09:02 PM



Title: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AD9DX on December 23, 2013, 05:09:02 PM
I figured since the topic gets drug through this board so ofter off topic you guys could have a thread to yourselves about it. 


I love mine  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: W4KYR on December 23, 2013, 05:21:20 PM
I figured since the topic gets drug through this board so ofter off topic you guys could have a thread to yourselves about it.  


I love mine  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I hope to own the KX3 someday. The only thing offensive is that I don't own one yet... :-)


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AD9DX on December 23, 2013, 06:57:37 PM
I am just sick of everyone going out of their way to bash it. It ruins the forum.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on December 24, 2013, 05:06:53 AM
I am just sick of everyone going out of their way to bash it.

Said by a K-3 owner..  ;)

It is not the K-3 that is offensive, it is the owners of the K-3 that are offensive. Much like the Flexradio owners...

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: W1JKA on December 24, 2013, 05:16:34 AM
My Ford is better than your Chevy. Nah nah nee nah nah.  Merry Christmas every one


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: N0IU on December 24, 2013, 06:04:20 AM
Tastes great!


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AD9DX on December 24, 2013, 07:55:57 AM
I am just sick of everyone going out of their way to bash it.

Said by a K-3 owner..  ;)

It is not the K-3 that is offensive, it is the owners of the K-3 that are offensive. Much like the Flexradio owners...

Stan K9IUQ

So pride of ownership bothers you? 

I hope some day you find a radio that makes you as happy as the K3 does me. 


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on December 24, 2013, 08:42:18 AM
So pride of ownership bothers you?  

I hope some day you find a radio that makes you as happy as the K3 does me.  

Pride of ownership? Give us a break. It is only a radio. Why would owning any radio give anyone pride??  OTOH Owning a K-3 gives many an big ego. They feel a need to convince everyone their K-3 is better than a Yaesu,Kenwood,Icom,Flexradio etc.

Trust me, I have had MANY radios that have given me happiness. No radio would ever give me pride..  :D :D :D

If I ever feel a need for pride I can guarantee it will not come from a K-3 or any other radio.

I am just sick of everyone going out of their way to bash it. It ruins the forum.

If the K-3 Bashing bothers you, as it seems it does, I suggest you stay on the Elecraft forums where you can get a nice warm feeling and spread your K-3 pride to other prideful owners.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AC4RD on December 24, 2013, 09:18:25 AM
Tastes great!

LESS FILLING!

(Next we can do "Hey, you got chocolate in my peanut butter!"  :)  )


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 24, 2013, 10:07:34 AM
Pride of ownership? Give us a break. It is only a radio. Why would owning any radio give anyone pride??  OTOH Owning a K-3 gives many an big ego. They feel a need to convince everyone their K-3 is better than a Yaesu,Kenwood,Icom,Flexradio etc.

If the K-3 Bashing bothers you, as it seems it does, I suggest you stay on the Elecraft forums where you can get a nice warm feeling and spread your K-3 pride to other prideful owners.

Stan K9IUQ

Well Stan you pretty much took the words out of my Mouth.
As you stated the K3 owners come on the forum and whenever someone asks what radio should I buy, I am thinking of X and Z?   The K3 owners pounce and say oh forget that Icom 7800 and the Kenwood 990 the K3 is better because some arbitrarily sorted list by a guy who doesn't even use one himself makes it the best for everyone and every situation ::)


And on the flip side Elecraft is using a few clever business tactics to make money.

1) Offer it as a Kit:  (When people put together kits it becomes like their own child, they feel like they gave birth to it and nobody is going to say anything negative about their child!
It becomes a radio that I made and am SO PROUD OF!  (Same technique Heathkit used)

2) Niche marketing:  Make a radio that will appeal to the CW purist.   The kind of CW guy who only cares about that .01% of the time when having something so narrow will make a difference.  The guy who will suffer with all the other short comings for 99.99% of his QSO's just so he has or believes he has a CW edge in that once per year situation.   After all who better to use to promote a product than the purist, he will always be the most vocal.  Just look up IMD and almost every post will have "Zenki" chiming in.

So what's wrong with the K3:

1)  It's Ergonomics and Menu system are a complete mess.

2)  The "Do You Want Fries With That?" sales approach that Elecraft uses is a turn off.  And those dam fries are expensive, and on top of that the plain burger without cheese is expensive!

3)  It's Tinny and Narrow and gives people a headache if they listen to it for too long. Basically the Ear fatigue level is at +10 with all Elecraft products

4) It's Expensive, the whole Radio plus the accessories to make it into the same radio you would get from the Big 3 ends up making it cost more, in some cases a lot more.

5) It's Tiny!  I want more meat on my radio, that tiny size may or may not bother some people but it's a turn off for me.

6) The Plastic is cheap feeling and not impressive at all.

So since you asked, that's the main list of problems with the K3 IMO.
As stated before the real turn off is not those problems because anyone who does their home work should know what they are getting before they buy it.  The problem is the owners and their hijacking of forums like eHam to try and push a product by telling new Hams stupid stuff like it's the "Best Radio Made", "It's better than a Kenwood 990".  You guys just turn off so many people and are unknowingly doing Elecraft a big disservice.

 
Rob
KD8MJR


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K4EJQ on December 24, 2013, 11:02:04 AM
Hello Gang: Funny, I've never ever heard of a K1, K2, or K3 owner ever saying he was unhappy with his purchase. Personally. I'd love to have one myself.

Pride in ownership-Yep, it happens.Just ask anyone who homebrews his own gear from scratch.

Wishing you all the best of  the Season and a Happy and Safe New Year...Bunky, K4EJQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 24, 2013, 12:25:59 PM
Hello Gang: Funny, I've never ever heard of a K1, K2, or K3 owner ever saying he was unhappy with his purchase. Personally. I'd love to have one myself.

Pride in ownership-Yep, it happens.Just ask anyone who homebrews his own gear from scratch.

Wishing you all the best of  the Season and a Happy and Safe New Year...Bunky, K4EJQ

You rarely hear any Ham say he's unhappy with his purchase unless it burns out.  Just look at the Ameritron AL-1300 owners, they even defend their amplifier after it burns out twice in the first 3 months ???

Pride in ownership in something that you Designed and Built from scratch is a lot different than buying a simple kit and bolting it together.  I built an ensemble RX/TX and that thing took longer to put together than any K-3 would ever take me (Winding Inductors and hand soldering SMD components is no fun).  In the end I even made my own excuses for it's complete lack of Tx usability (1/2 a Watt is useless) by saying well at least the receive is good (which it's not).

That's the power of putting together kits, they become a reflection of your own ingenuity and you try to find reasons to love them even when you know they have problems.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: REMOVED_ACCOUNT_2015-01-09 on December 24, 2013, 03:00:16 PM
Excellent and honest assessment Robert showing your experience and time with this rig.
Personally built two K3's which brought memories of an Erector Set by Hasbro I received
for Christmas one year.

This kit took 8 hours of screwing nuts onto bolts and once that tedious process was finished
15 minutes plugging in the 7 or so modules. Never wanted to see a bolt or nut again in my
life after this experience.

To state "I built this radio" is a joke. This is not even homebrew. Elecraft saves
LOT'S of cash using this approach and then nickel and dime you to death with the accessories.
Reminds me in the early 80's when Atari came out with their excellent gaming console. They
did not make money on the console but made huge profits with their game cartridges. Later we
found out the cartridges were manufactured for .50 cents each and were sold for $49.95. Pretty
nifty eh!

Sold my K3's and now have a very nice Kenwood TS-590S which is fantastic on CW with some
very nice stock accessories.

john


[/quote]

Well Stan you pretty much took the words out of my Mouth.
As you stated the K3 owners come on the forum and whenever someone asks what radio should I buy, I am thinking of X and Z?   The K3 owners pounce and say oh forget that Icom 7800 and the Kenwood 990 the K3 is better because some arbitrarily sorted list by a guy who doesn't even use one himself makes it the best for everyone and every situation ::)


And on the flip side Elecraft is using a few clever business tactics to make money.

1) Offer it as a Kit:  (When people put together kits it becomes like their own child, they feel like they gave birth to it and nobody is going to say anything negative about their child!
It becomes a radio that I made and am SO PROUD OF!  (Same technique Heathkit used)

2) Niche marketing:  Make a radio that will appeal to the CW purist.   The kind of CW guy who only cares about that .01% of the time when having something so narrow will make a difference.  The guy who will suffer with all the other short comings for 99.99% of his QSO's just so he has or believes he has a CW edge in that once per year situation.   After all who better to use to promote a product than the purist, he will always be the most vocal.  Just look up IMD and almost every post will have "Zenki" chiming in.

So what's wrong with the K3:

1)  It's Ergonomics and Menu system are a complete mess.

2)  The "Do You Want Fries With That?" sales approach that Elecraft uses is a turn off.  And those dam fries are expensive, and on top of that the plain burger without cheese is expensive!

3)  It's Tinny and Narrow and gives people a headache if they listen to it for too long. Basically the Ear fatigue level is at +10 with all Elecraft products

4) It's Expensive, the whole Radio plus the accessories to make it into the same radio you would get from the Big 3 ends up making it cost more, in some cases a lot more.

5) It's Tiny!  I want more meat on my radio, that tiny size may or may not bother some people but it's a turn off for me.

6) The Plastic is cheap feeling and not impressive at all.

So since you asked, that's the main list of problems with the K3 IMO.
As stated before the real turn off is not those problems because anyone who does their home work should know what they are getting before they buy it.  The problem is the owners and their hijacking of forums like eHam to try and push a product by telling new Hams stupid stuff like it's the "Best Radio Made", "It's better than a Kenwood 990".  You guys just turn off so many people and are unknowingly doing Elecraft a big disservice.

 
Rob
KD8MJR
[/quote]


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 24, 2013, 03:10:43 PM
Thanks John.
BTW I love that 590, it's one of the best bangs for the buck on the market.

73's
Rob
KDMJR


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on December 24, 2013, 05:57:34 PM
BTW I love that 590, it's one of the best bangs for the buck on the market.

I like (I have not ever loved a radio, love is for my dogs and wife) my TS-590s. It does not give me pride, however I am happy of the fact the 590s has saved me about $3K over a comparable equipped model K-3.  :D :D

Sold my K3's and now have a very nice Kenwood TS-590S which is fantastic on CW with some
very nice stock accessories.

I guess K-3 Pride did not impress you...  ;)

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 24, 2013, 07:37:04 PM
I like (I have not ever loved a radio, love is for my dogs and wife) my TS-590s. It does not give me pride, however I am happy of the fact the 590s has saved me about $3K over a comparable equipped model K-3.  :D :D
Stan K9IUQ

Don't worry Stan the Relationship between me and my 7600 is strictly platonic.   ;D ;D ;D


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: PA1ZP on December 25, 2013, 04:02:01 AM
Hi to you all

The only reason why I do not have a K3 and use a TS590 instead is the price.
As others say if you want a complete K3 it is expencive.
But as i said , I would love to have a K3 though I think it is nothing special at all on SSB, and radios like the FTDX3000 or even FTDX1200 will do as good in SSB or even better as a K3.

One of the most annoying points of the K3 is that even the handmike is an option.
The standard price is good, but who needs a 10 watt radio.
If you want it dressed a little bit and I sure do not need the second reciever.
Just plain 100 watts and 2.8 KHz, 2.4KHz  500Hz and 250Hz roofing filters, no auto tune I never use them.
If I would want to buy this its costing you an arm and a leg.

But I would love to test the K3 against my TS590.
A lot of people are completely in the TS590 and find it WOW , I think it has a few nasty problems and should be advertised as a 100 watt CW radio with an QRP SSB TX , but if you ook at its price the TS590 is very good quality.

I think the size of the K3 is super , I like my radios small , i do not need to impress anyone with a big rig.
Do not need TV screens even do not want a computer in my shack.
The only problem is the strange way you have to compose your radio.
That way of work has also advantages, you do not have to pay for what you do not want.
And you can build the rig you want to have.

So why this relationship between the owners of Elekraft and others is sometimes a bit strange, I do not know.
But I agree that some of the owners react some what strange every now and then.

But as sometimes other owners of the TS590 find it a super rig they are getting warmed-up if i say that this radio has a few nasty flaws, wich Kenwood even doesn't want to admit.

73 Jos


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AA4HA on December 25, 2013, 09:02:17 AM
I have been considering the K3 as my next radio for the last few years. I do not care for the "bling" that accompanies many other modern radios. The K3 has a simple, clean layout, excellent specifications and was a pleasure to spend some time with after I had a day to take one for a test drive at a friends station.

That it seems to make Stan completely crazy that there would be another K3 owner is just icing on the cake  :P That has cinched the deal for me. Now I must have one and I must share it with everyone out there that it is the best-est radio on the  planet, bar none.  ;D


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 25, 2013, 11:20:16 AM
Make sure to get the Nifty Manual Accessory or you will be pulling out your Hair  ;D

http://www.niftyaccessories.com/Elecraft_RefGuide.htm

It's one of the cheapest "accessories" for the K-3  ;)

BTW I know your just jabbing Stan  :) :)


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on December 26, 2013, 11:46:43 AM
That it seems to make Stan completely crazy

Stan has been completely crazy well before the K-3.....  ;)

I do not care for the "bling" that accompanies many other modern radios.

A lady that does not like bling? I find that very hard to believe.  :D  :D  :D

Give me that bling. I want everything but the kitchen sink in a radio and if the sink is available I will take that too...

Barebone radios are for Newbies...

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: WA2DTW on December 27, 2013, 04:46:24 AM
]

Said by a K-3 owner..  ;)

It is not the K-3 that is offensive, it is the owners of the K-3 that are offensive. Much like the Flexradio owners...

Stan K9IUQ

It is most important to keep in mind that the Elecraft, Flex and TenTec are US-made radios.  And they are not only competitive but excel in many ways.  This includes the K3.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9MHZ on December 27, 2013, 04:47:51 AM
Yeah, brand-loyal activists are always funny to watch/read.  I've always owned Icom gear for no other reason than it is what it is, and even fellow "Icom guys" get silly with the "Yaesu is junk" comments, blah, blah.   Personally, getting some Kenwood gear for 902 MHz because our dear Icom gods won't have anything to do with it, and later some Ten-Tec accessories and Alinco 220 MHz gear was the best thing.  It's all good today....very good.

The hipster dufus, occupy Wall Street, Apple crowd are way, way worse than anything out there in the ham radio world.  Apple's great, Linux is good and fun, Microsoft is getting there (I have all three)...but who cares?  

I still laugh at statements made by an airline years ago after being offered a sweetheart deal from McDonnell Douglas on some new planes...."ah, no thanks....we're a Boeing airline"   Not even a year later, Boeing and McD merged, and Boeing stamped their name on those McD planes.  Even Japan Airlines, probably the most staunch Boeing customer ever, has recently ordered some Airbus planes.

It's just stuff.



Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: NZ0T on December 28, 2013, 07:34:36 AM
I bought my K3 as a kit in August 2008 and really enjoyed putting it together.  Not as much fun to build as my K2/100 was but fun nonetheless.  How can any ham NOT enjoy building something?   I am ashamed to say this but I really, really like my K3 and I have found that Elecraft has the best customer service in the industry. 

And I'm primarily a CW op which evidently is a bad thing from what some people have posted here in this thread.  I do spend some time most evenings on 1.947 SSB with friends and I have found the K3 receiver to be excellent on that noisy band.  One just has to understand how to set it up.  I, for one, am very happy to own a rig that allows me to set virtually any parameter however I want to instead of settling for what the manufacturer thinks is best for me. I always get excellent audio reports but if anyone wants to join the group on 1.947 and tell me how terrible my audio is feel free to.

Once again I apologize for liking my rig and yes, I am so ashamed.......


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on December 28, 2013, 09:52:15 AM
I do spend some time most evenings on 1.947 SSB

 yes, I am so ashamed.......

Understood.

Anyone who has heard a K-3 on SSB knows exactly why you are ashamed.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: REMOVED_ACCOUNT_2015-01-09 on December 28, 2013, 09:54:32 AM
Ok My Son,
for your Penance say Three Our Fathers, Three Hail Mary's and Three Glory Be's. Now make an Act of Contrition.



I bought my K3 as a kit in August 2008 and really enjoyed putting it together.  Not as much fun to build as my K2/100 was but fun nonetheless.  How can any ham NOT enjoy building something?   I am ashamed to say this but I really, really like my K3 and I have found that Elecraft has the best customer service in the industry. 

And I'm primarily a CW op which evidently is a bad thing from what some people have posted here in this thread.  I do spend some time most evenings on 1.947 SSB with friends and I have found the K3 receiver to be excellent on that noisy band.  One just has to understand how to set it up.  I, for one, am very happy to own a rig that allows me to set virtually any parameter however I want to instead of settling for what the manufacturer thinks is best for me. I always get excellent audio reports but if anyone wants to join the group on 1.947 and tell me how terrible my audio is feel free to.

Once again I apologize for liking my rig and yes, I am so ashamed.......


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: NZ0T on December 28, 2013, 10:33:56 AM
I do spend some time most evenings on 1.947 SSB

 yes, I am so ashamed.......

Understood.

Anyone who has heard a K-3 on SSB knows exactly why you are ashamed.

Stan K9IUQ

Guess you missed the part where I mentioned I get consistently good audio reports on SSB. 


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: ZENKI on December 28, 2013, 05:41:19 PM
If the K3 was the price of the TS590 nobody would be complaining. However when  you complete a K3 station the total invested is a large sum of money in any hams book.
So when sink so much into one radio, I suppose you have the  right to be critical and ask after experiencing what you bought, own and tried is as good  as the hype.

The K3 is by no means perfect and neither is any other brand of radio. So if you do have issues or are critical of some aspects  of the radios design and performance you should  have the right to openly discuss the radios performance and design.

Why there are  so much frustrations by some owners is that there seems to be a Koolaid drinking mafia running around who dont want you to know about these problems or somehow be dismissive of other users concerns. Their bullying tactics does not impress a lot of K3 owners who bought into the K line because of all the promises of high performance. Now when owners  have a radio that does not meet their expectations they vent.  I suppose thats life in the ham radio ownership lane. It does not help when there seems to be a self imposed silence and  censorship by  many who deem that they are protecting their investment in a brand and will do anything to defend their new toy regardless if the truth is being twisted and bent. If a radio is the best it should be able to withstand any scrutiny technical or otherwise. The fact is that their has been
no counter from brainwashed K3 owners nor the company to the legitimate criticisms of the radios design and performance. I suppose some people cant live in the ham radio world with " I have dream" but road to the dream is a bit bumpy full of pot holes and the Hallelujah chorus sings  be patient   the devil from Japan is tempting you with debauchery  and eye candy

The problem now in the internet age is that you have  forums and reflectors. These reflectors have become gathering points for the true believers. Anyone who has any criticisms becomes a heretic who must be slain down. The problem is also  you have a the chief dictator called the moderator who blatantly bans or censors anyone who raises any known or perceived problems with the  brand or the radio. The various yahoo amateur radio groups is a hot bed of this closed shop brand worship. Its just unfortunate that many of these groups and individuals dont want the truth to get out  about the various issues  affecting all brands of radios. If radio has a issue say so, build a bridge over it or fix, life is really that simply. Hiding  your problems like a drug addict serves nobody interests, its just a pity some people have not learned their lessons in life. Look at the ex Soviet Union, all the lies, brainwashing  and propaganda failed because the truth won the day. Hams trying to cover up a radios problems are just being fools.

It is interesting to contrast ownership of the TS990S owners to the K3 owners. You dont have a Koolaid mafia running around screaming "its the best, its the best, its the best, its the best" Nor are they trying to bully or silence  discussions about perceived  problems and  issues with the TS990S radio.  I just picked up my TS990S and  if you compared the K3 and TS990S on paper the K3 is so much more superior to the TS990S in many key specifications. On the other hand in areas that dont matter  like ergonomics and general perceived quality the TS990S sounds better. Owners who bought the TS990S are willing to live with all the TS990S issues despite this radio not having blockbuster receiver performance numbers because there was no expectation before the release that it was going to be the best. There was also no Kenwood cheer squad running around trying to brainwash other hams into thinking that  the Kenwood TS990S was a radio that will have no equal on the planet.

The crux of the matter many K3 owners have come down from a make belief  cloud 9 and now have come to the reality that their so called perfect expensive radio is not what the want or what in their minds is their ideal radio. As  far as I can work out most of the frustration comes from the small size and poor front panel ergonomics.  I know at least 50 K3 owners and all their K3's sit on top of older or newer inferior model radios. They use their K3's as mission critical radios where performance counts and  then switch to some other general purpose big crap box  for day to day tuning around the band. This sums up the conflicting ownership pains of owning a K3. They like the performance but cant handle  handle whatever it is about the K3 they dont like for  use as a everyday radio. 

The problem for Elecraft is that they wont  throw the baby out with the bathwater, nor will they murder their own children. Unfortunately  their inflexibility and  closed minded thinking to what makes a good radio is not meeting the expectations of many hams despite the performance numbers. After speaking to K3 owners and being a multiple K2 and K3 owner, I think the problem is  more about the size, sound and ergonomics of the radio. All these issues could be fixed, but while you have the K3 bullies running around bullying other peoples opinions and a company who is holding its cards close to its chest about the future it makes people feel insecure. 

Why many hams have stuck with the K3 is because they believed in Elecraft  to deliver solutions and assumed that they had the flexibility of a small company to rapidly develop, discuss and deliver solutions. To this day Elecraft has become just like every other big Japanese company because they seem to have lost their desire to bring about and effect change. This lack of company direction towards the future lets the owners become insecure about what they own, because they read and hear about happy brand X owners  and they have no counter besides "the numbers are better" I think K3 owners want the best receiver, ergonomics, big radio, more knobs, best TX audio, best RX audio and  because they cant have all this they get frustrated. A good example of this is the ESSB market. Elecraft has catered for this market with wide ESSB TX. Despite this the uptake of the radio in this market has been very slow or non existent. Contrast this to the Kenwood TS990S which has overall less performance than the K3 however has quickly  established itself as an ideal ESSB radio as well as status symbol radio to own. Snobbery, Elitism perhaps, market perception yes! Its perceptions that count and Kenwood is winning the perception stakes despite the lack of  a few Db on receiver numbers.

While I say all this  I would rate the K3 as one of  my best radio buys in ham radio. As far as I am concerned the performance that it delivers despite its many shortcoming in my eyes are the best set of shortcomings to live with compared to the problems that I  have had with other radios. My belief is that Elecraft can deliver a killer radio like the TS990S or IC78000, but that would require a huge change in their thinking in terms of what constitutes a good performance radio and what makes a desirable brand radio. They have delivered a set of performance numbers that has not been enough to sway many buyers into their camp. I suppose  this is not hard to understand once you sit in front of the big box radio from Japan. Elecraft  has image problem with its small box radios that dont appeal to many hams sense of radio taste and thats the crux of the Elecraft K3 frustration. The majority of K3 owners that I speak too want the K3 experience in a big with kobs. If I owned Elecraft I would release a new integration kit. This kit should offer a new front panel, new box that can fit in the P3, pwr supply and a 200 watt PA. More knobs and a big box will  be a winner for Elecraft. While they stick to this wire up tree from a park bench, dxpedition super radio they not going to capture the big picture ham radio transceiver market.

The K3 despite what I dont like about the radio in my mind is still one of the safest radio buys you can make. However  this does not mean that its the best in every  expected  area of performance. I think Elecraft has a good brand name that  could deliver  more products that hams do want to buy. What Elecraft has to realize is that hams want the best that technology  can deliver. Hams dont want radio with 5 receiver performance boxes ticked as perfect and 20 other boxes left  not ticked because there is no conclusive evidence  besides cheerleaders saying its the best in those areas. The real problem is that Elecraft is small and does not  have unlimited financial resources  to throw around or gambling on the whim of shallow  expectation hams who dont have a clue. But I am sure if they said we going to deliver the best in all areas of performance and expectation I would buy in. I would gladly put down a 50% deposit on the K4 or K5000 if they spelt out clearly what that new product is going to be .
In the meantime I will enjoy playing around with my TS990S, which has a uncalibated S-meter, average receiver numbers, poor bandscope dynamic range and numerous other faults. But oh boy do I enjoy spinning a big VFO knob and playing with nice front panel with ergonomic place controls. Even with my 2 stack of 40 meter yagis never once did I say I need my K3 or I need less knobs. The soothing audio on TX and RX is really " Kenwood Audio" But if I wanted the best RX audio quality I turn on a DDC  SDR receiver now that is music to my ears.



Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: NZ0T on December 28, 2013, 06:49:14 PM
LOL sure was great reading War and Peace again Zenki!  The bottom line is a lot of hams seem to like big rigs.  They are OK but not for me.  I have owned a couple of TS-940s and were great rigs in there time but just too damn big.  With today's technology there is no reason for a rig to be that big.  I understand that some hams still want big rigs and more power to them.  Enjoy!

The bottom line is that Elecraft is an AMERICAN company that is very successful in a bad economy.  They have excellent products, great customer service and continue to sell a ton of product.  The Japanese make good stuff too - I have a Yaesu FT-857D that is an amazing rig that works great for what it is designed to do.  And I have owned many very nice rigs from the shores of Nippon.  But the support from Yaesu is terrible just like it is for Kenwood and Icom.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9SRV on December 29, 2013, 07:27:52 AM
I would have been happy with a 718 for Christmas. I got a 3 pack of underwear. Oh, because they were from Walmart, there was an extra, free pair. So I got that goin for me... Which is kinda nice..


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 29, 2013, 10:09:13 AM
It could have been worst,  you could have gotten it from Target.
Personally I won't buy even underwear at Walmart.  They are one of the biggest contributors to job loss in the USA and China's number one business partner.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KB4XV on December 29, 2013, 11:29:04 AM
I have owned Heathkits, Kenwoods, Icoms, and now a Yaesu. I have gotten the same results from all. If I can hear them I can talk to them. I don't like little radios because I have big hands and fingers and those tiny knobs are hard to control. Radios are like anything else. Good and bad ones in all brands. Besides it dose not matter what kind of radio you have if the antenna is crap. I may try one someday when they end up on ebay cheap if I live that long. I'm just not going to spend that kind of money on a radio unless it can get a job and make some money.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 29, 2013, 07:16:29 PM
I do spend some time most evenings on 1.947 SSB

 yes, I am so ashamed.......

Understood.

Anyone who has heard a K-3 on SSB knows exactly why you are ashamed.

Stan K9IUQ

Stan your a Bad Boy :o
I hope Santa Left you a K3 under the Tree  :P :P


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K5TED on December 29, 2013, 07:47:43 PM
The K3s I've heard on ssb have a very distinctive tone, no matter how hard the op tries to hide it with expensive mics and equalizers. It's a very dry, hard, flat and effective tone for cutting through background noise and pileups in some cases. Not the greatest for being heard over impulse noise. IMO, not the most pleasant sound quality for ragchew. Very effective for communication.

Not really offensive, just annoying unless there is a life/safety effort at hand. It will likely be the signal that is heard over the cacophony of lesser radios being driven into shrill, squeaky "DX" mode audio.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 29, 2013, 08:42:57 PM
Personally I don't find the K3 to be a bad radio on SSB but its certainly not great for the kind of money it costs and I don't see why anybody should be ashamed to own one because its a really a good CW radio.  As stated before the problem is not K3 its the owners and the non stop hyping of a radio that as Zenki stated gets 5 out of 20 things right and forgets about the rest.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: N2ADV on December 30, 2013, 10:27:57 AM
The K3s I've heard on ssb have a very distinctive tone, no matter how hard the op tries to hide it with expensive mics and equalizers. It's a very dry, hard, flat and effective tone for cutting through background noise and pileups in some cases. Not the greatest for being heard over impulse noise. IMO, not the most pleasant sound quality for ragchew. Very effective for communication.

Not really offensive, just annoying unless there is a life/safety effort at hand. It will likely be the signal that is heard over the cacophony of lesser radios being driven into shrill, squeaky "DX" mode audio.
I get nothing but fantastic audio reports using my K3, the stock mic, and internal EQ. Like any other rig, if you set it up right it will work fine for you. Same with my TS480 - I've had people interject themselves into a QSO just to compliment my audio (both using the K3 and the 480) and ask what I'm running.

I happen to like the footprint of my K3 and the customizations available but is it better than a radio someone else has in their shack?  To me, sure. To everyone else?  Prob'ly not and that's ok! 



Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on December 30, 2013, 11:22:42 AM
The K3s I've heard on ssb have a very distinctive tone, no matter how hard the op tries to hide it with expensive mics and equalizers.

Not really offensive, just annoying

Bingo!! A perceptive ham can tell who is using a K-3 on SSB without being told. You described it perfectly. Not offensive, just annoying and these same words could be used to describe the K-3s RX audio also.

Do not worry K-3ers, your SSB audio is not offensive, just annoying and few hams will complain about your audio on the air.

Now that I think about it most K-3 operators are not offensive - just annoying.  :D :D

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on December 30, 2013, 11:28:11 AM
I hope Santa Left you a K3 under the Tree  :P :P

Instead I got 3 pairs of underwear from Target bought with my wife's Credit Card...
 ;)

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 30, 2013, 02:08:21 PM
I hope Santa Left you a K3 under the Tree  :P :P

Instead I got 3 pairs of underwear from Target bought with my wife's Credit Card...
 ;)

Stan K9IUQ


Ok well that Target purchase should be enough Penance.  BTW Stan thanks for the new TS-990  ;)  You'll understand next month  ;)


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 30, 2013, 02:12:14 PM
I get nothing but fantastic audio reports using my K3, the stock mic, and internal EQ. Like any other rig, if you set it up right it will work fine for you.

Come on dude we were not born yesterday! 
I have never ever heard a K3 owner get "fantastic audio reports"  ??? ???
You must be hanging around the K3 net when you get these reports!
The audio can be OK on a K3 but I have never heard one that was "Fantastic"


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on December 30, 2013, 02:41:46 PM
BTW Stan thanks for the new TS-990  ;)  You'll understand next month  ;)

Anyone who actually lives on "Street Of Dreams" has to be fortunate.......

Those that do not understand the above, look him up on QRZ.com.
Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K5TED on December 30, 2013, 03:17:23 PM
BTW, I've just recently decided to take in any unwanted K3 radios, just to do my small part in helping to relieve the agony and suffering in the Elecraft community


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K3NB on December 30, 2013, 04:51:56 PM
I am just sick of everyone going out of their way to bash it. It ruins the forum.

Funny.  I feel the same way about people who don't own Macs.  As a proud "fanboi" I find it beneath others' dignity that they stoop to ad hominem attacks on people because they like their computers to work the way they're supposed to.

I just recently bought a KX3 and am having the time of my life figuring out all the bells and whistles, setting up HDSDR, figuring out how to store the thing in an EMP-proof case (a SHTF commo kit).

I can't wait for the 2M board to come out soon.

There's a lot of immaturity among hams, I've found.  Arrested development of a sort.  Tune in to 3.363 or thereabouts most evenings and you'll hear some loser following the group who gathers on that band who curses, plays inappropriate cartoon music and comedic bits, basically crapping on the whole group, stalking them onto other bands as well.  Someone got their widdle feewings hurt and are sharing their butthurt all over the web.  He's not the only one.

I hope you get over your "offendedness" soon.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 30, 2013, 04:58:06 PM
BTW Stan thanks for the new TS-990  ;)  You'll understand next month  ;)

Anyone who actually lives on "Street Of Dreams" has to be fortunate.......

And thanks to some Underwear + Target  + Russian Comrade's = Dreams can come true  ;D
I better stop joking about this before Target thinks I am connected to this thing or worst Stan buys a 990 on his Credit card then claims no knowledge and sends them to this thread.  Fast forward 3 months, Happy Stan on 40M and Rob holding a Soap on the Rope  ;D


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 30, 2013, 05:03:16 PM
I am just sick of everyone going out of their way to bash it. It ruins the forum.

Funny.  I feel the same way about people who don't own Macs.  As a proud "fanboi" I find it beneath others' dignity that they stoop to ad hominem attacks on people because they like their computers to work the way they're supposed to.

A Mac and K3 owner! Oh man what a Combo Pack  ::)
Just add in an Electric car some Solar cells and a Huge bedroom Mirror and your set for life  ;D


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 30, 2013, 05:18:32 PM
Funny.  I feel the same way about people who don't own Macs.  As a proud "fanboi" I find it beneath others' dignity that they stoop to ad hominem attacks on people because they like their computers to work the way they're supposed to.

You see my friend that's what makes it so funny, you people are dilusional in every possible way and that statement proves it.

It's not that other people go out and attack Mac owners or K3 owners it's that people like you come into a conversation and make statements like

" because they like their computers to work the way they're supposed to".

Who asked you about Macs and how did you manage to insult PC owners in your first sentence while still making an argument that your the one under attack!!

 I have used an Iphone from day one and always have the latest or close to latest model but I avoid other iphone users because most of them sound like You.

Another thing I find funny is that your a Mac Lover who also likes the K3.  Those two products are so far apart in ideology that it makes me wonder if you really know anything about Ham Radios.  Apple is into making things work seamlessly and transparent.  Elecraft is into making you work your Ass off to do the simplest of tasks.  How do those two products come together in your mind?  Are you going to tell me that it does the most seamless CW in the world ;)

Lastly let me ask you what good is a Mac in most real world cases.  Everytime you need a piece of software you have to end up using some backwater version of it because no one writes the software for the Mac or you have to run it in emulation mode which begs the question of why own a Mac to begin with.  I am not saying they are not good computers but who the hell cares!  Not even Apple, they are moving as fast as they can from that market. I would suspect in 3-4 years they will give it up and just make tablets and phones.

 


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: WD4ELG on December 30, 2013, 09:59:16 PM
KD8MJR, you helped me see the light...I decided to NOT get a KX3 this holiday season (although I was seriously tempted).

K9IUQ, you helped me see the light...I decided to NOT get a Flex 1500 this holiday season (per our previous discussions).

What I DID get (no, not kidding) was new boxers from Target (after the hack ocurred).  I also got an AlphaLoop antenna which works amazingly well even on 40 meters, and I can take on road trips for hotel operation when I can't open windows and have no balcony.

I have used the Elecraft (the K2) before on Field Day (KZ1X was my partner in crime at OCRA back in 2007, it was his rig), and I enjoyed the radio...but I kept pushing the wrong buttons, esp late at night when I got tired.  Took me awhile to get the hang of it.

Not saying my FT817ND is any easier, but after a few weeks it became second nature. 

I will confess to succumbing to some of the Flex kool-aid similar to what we are discussing here regarding Elecraft, but Stan has helped me to drink from a clear spigot and get my objective views back into focus.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K2GWK on December 31, 2013, 09:32:21 AM
I get nothing but fantastic audio reports using my K3, the stock mic, and internal EQ. Like any other rig, if you set it up right it will work fine for you.

Come on dude we were not born yesterday! 
I have never ever heard a K3 owner get "fantastic audio reports"  ??? ???
You must be hanging around the K3 net when you get these reports!
The audio can be OK on a K3 but I have never heard one that was "Fantastic"


And how the hell would you know? How long have you been a ham? I bet it's under 5 years.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 31, 2013, 09:34:33 AM
I will confess to succumbing to some of the Flex kool-aid similar to what we are discussing here regarding Elecraft, but Stan has helped me to drink from a clear spigot and get my objective views back into focus.

Stan better watch himself, the Elecraft and Flex user groups may team up to rub him out  ;D


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 31, 2013, 09:42:47 AM
And how the hell would you know? How long have you been a ham? I bet it's under 5 years.

And what would that have to do with it?  Even If I had been a ham for 1 year it's still a valid statement. I have never heard anyone give it a "Fantastic Audio report".   K3 don't get glowing audio audio reports unless they are talking to other K3 owner, a friend or someone who does not know good sounding audio!  That's just a fact, it's a good CW rig not a good phone rig.
And BTW there are a lot of great Red necks on 80M that have been hams for 40 years, why not go down on 80M and ask them what they think of your K3 audio ;D



Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on December 31, 2013, 09:44:38 AM
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Come on dude we were not born yesterday!  
I have never ever heard a K3 owner get "fantastic audio reports"  ??? ???
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
And how the hell would you know? How long have you been a ham? I bet it's under 5 years.


Ok I'll respond on this on this one. I am working on 54 years of holding a ham license. Believe me I would know. Now, tell us all how long you have been a ham and why does ham longetivity make any difference with annoying K-3 SSB audio??

Stan better watch himself, the Elecraft and Flex user groups may team up to rub him out  ;D

I did get banned from Flexradio Reflectors because I asked too many questions that were embarrassing to Flexradio.

I did belong to K-3 reflectors for a while but got quickly bored listening to everyone posting how much they love the great K-3....

I also get many hams here on eham telling everyone they put me on ignore. Of course they are lying.  ;)

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 31, 2013, 10:55:27 AM
I did get banned from Flexradio Reflectors because I asked too many questions that were embarrassing to Flexradio.

Wow if I got banned from the Flex Reflector I think I would Kill myself  :D I mean Stan how are you making it through each and every day knowing you can't listen to great Flex conversation? (why is there no sarcasm Icon on eham ??? oh there is  ::))

Quote
I did belong to K-3 reflectors for a while but got quickly bored listening to everyone posting how much they love the great K-3....

No need to say anymore, I have gotten a sample of that on eHam.  Going directly to the forum would be as much fun as sticking my head in a hornets nest.

Quote
I also get many hams here on eham telling everyone they put me on ignore. Of course they are lying.  ;)

I also doubt that anyone would put you on an ignore list.  Unless they don't like hearing the truth.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on December 31, 2013, 11:08:51 AM
What I DID get (no, not kidding) was new boxers from Target (after the hack occurred). 
 

Wow if your being serious that's just so coincidental and funny.
I am pretty sure your CC is safe, I doubt Target will have any problems again after that screw up.
After all it only took a 40 million credit card heist for them to find the problem ::).   Can you imagine what this will cost the company.  I just hope they survive, I would hate to see Walmart get further in their ambition to be the only store in America.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: WD4ELG on December 31, 2013, 03:49:56 PM
Agreed.  I happen to be very fond of Target, as I like a bargain.  And while the K3 seems to be a superior radio from what I have heard on this forum, it does not seem like a "bargain" to me.  But as the Food Lion says in his commercial, "that's just my 2 cents." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bVaPsCKqAo


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on January 01, 2014, 11:29:59 AM
It's not superior it just designed to be a very narrow radio from the front end onward so it ends up being really good at CW and that's about it.  If your a CW DX chasing op it's a great choice otherwise you can take your pick from dozens of more well balanced radios.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KE7TMA on January 01, 2014, 04:06:39 PM
Lots of people have a strategic interest in badmouthing the K3 and KX3.  Because Elecraft only sells factory direct, the middlemen are completely cut out of the picture.  As these radios are some of the top performers in the areas that count, this is a double whammy that hurts the mercantilists in the pocketbooks.

I for one enjoy working a full featured American-made amateur radio.  Ten-Tec and Elecraft deserve our support not just for making superior products, but for the superior support they offer and the idea that it is possible to use a state of the art American made piece of consumer electronics even today.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: WA2ASB on January 02, 2014, 04:28:45 AM
Well, I just have to put my 2 cents in here.  My first Elecraft was the KX3.  I liked it and decided to get the K3, but to build it as a kit.  I ended up getting and building the entire K3 line.  Did I enjoy building it - not so much. 

Then I bought the K1 kit and really, really enjoyed building it.  It reminded me a lot of my first kit: the Heathkit DX20.

Now about "pride".  Because of someone else's misfortune in the stock market I was able to get the BMW Z8 that they had ordered.  The whole 4 years production was sold the first month so it was a lot of being in the right place at the right time.

One day it was being admired by a bunch of Honda Golden Wing bikers that ere in Grapevine, TX for a convention.  One said to me: "You must be really proud of this."  I looked at him and said: "Why should I be proud?  I didn't design it nor did I build it."

I hate overloaded buttons, but I learn to live with it.  The only perfect rig will be the one that I design and build myself.  Then will I be proud of it?  No because I've lived with me all my life so I know me and my "talents" - it will be a piece of crap.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: W1JKA on January 02, 2014, 06:40:48 AM
Well I've read enough now to know that a K3 is not in my future, since I like BASIC automation only I'll stick with my K1 which as far as fun to operate goes is only one notch below my Johnson Adventurer/FRG 7700 combo.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AD9DX on January 02, 2014, 08:09:33 AM
It's not superior it just designed to be a very narrow radio from the front end onward so it ends up being really good at CW and that's about it.  If your a CW DX chasing op it's a great choice otherwise you can take your pick from dozens of more well balanced radios.

That is a very good assessment of a K3.  If CW and DIGI are the most important thing to you, than the K3 is a very capable radio.  SSB it is very average.  I can get the audio in mine to sound decent but as far as sounding great... I don't really care, the mic stays in the desk drawer where it belongs.  It only comes out for DX contests where audio quality doesn't mean a hill of beans. 

Could I have bought a FTDX-5000 from Yaesu?  Sure, but I would have spent quite a bit more money and then had a heck of a lot less desk space to boot.  And besides, buying American means something to me. 


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9IUQ on January 02, 2014, 05:38:29 PM
That is a very good assessment of a K3. 

Here is a very interesting article about xmit performance of 14 current radios.
http://www.sm5bsz.com/dynrange/dubus313.pdf
Discussion here: http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,94245.0.html

"Two transceivers stand out as particularly bad. Those are the Flex Radio SDR transmitters." More fuel for the K-3ers and at dead last and "particularly poor performance" the Flex 5K owners are hanging their head in shame..

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KE7TMA on January 02, 2014, 07:28:36 PM
It's not superior it just designed to be a very narrow radio from the front end onward so it ends up being really good at CW and that's about it.  If your a CW DX chasing op it's a great choice otherwise you can take your pick from dozens of more well balanced radios.

That is a very good assessment of a K3.  If CW and DIGI are the most important thing to you, than the K3 is a very capable radio.  SSB it is very average.  I can get the audio in mine to sound decent but as far as sounding great... I don't really care, the mic stays in the desk drawer where it belongs.  It only comes out for DX contests where audio quality doesn't mean a hill of beans.  

Could I have bought a FTDX-5000 from Yaesu?  Sure, but I would have spent quite a bit more money and then had a heck of a lot less desk space to boot.  And besides, buying American means something to me.  

Do you mean to tell me that you don't hook your radios up to real speakers?  Mine feed some Yamaha HS50M studio monitors.  No ham radio has decent speakers in my estimation, and this includes the Kenwood TS-990 and the Yaesu FTDX-9000 and FTDX-5000s all of which I have used in the past.  My standards are probably a bit higher than your average ham though.

Anyway I think if you hook a decent speaker up to any amateur radio you will find your DXing is much improved.  I think it is a necessary upgrade.  You'll hear all kinds of stuff you never did before.

Judging a ham radio by its internal speaker is like judging a car based on the trunk lighting.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AD9DX on January 03, 2014, 03:20:56 AM
It's not superior it just designed to be a very narrow radio from the front end onward so it ends up being really good at CW and that's about it.  If your a CW DX chasing op it's a great choice otherwise you can take your pick from dozens of more well balanced radios.

That is a very good assessment of a K3.  If CW and DIGI are the most important thing to you, than the K3 is a very capable radio.  SSB it is very average.  I can get the audio in mine to sound decent but as far as sounding great... I don't really care, the mic stays in the desk drawer where it belongs.  It only comes out for DX contests where audio quality doesn't mean a hill of beans.  

Could I have bought a FTDX-5000 from Yaesu?  Sure, but I would have spent quite a bit more money and then had a heck of a lot less desk space to boot.  And besides, buying American means something to me.  

Do you mean to tell me that you don't hook your radios up to real speakers?  Mine feed some Yamaha HS50M studio monitors.  No ham radio has decent speakers in my estimation, and this includes the Kenwood TS-990 and the Yaesu FTDX-9000 and FTDX-5000s all of which I have used in the past.  My standards are probably a bit higher than your average ham though.

Anyway I think if you hook a decent speaker up to any amateur radio you will find your DXing is much improved.  I think it is a necessary upgrade.  You'll hear all kinds of stuff you never did before.

Judging a ham radio by its internal speaker is like judging a car based on the trunk lighting.

I use headphones.  For weak signal work. I have tried to listen to my radio through bookshelf speakers (with the tweeters disconnected and connected) I just would rather put on my AKG K77s when I need to. 


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on January 03, 2014, 12:31:44 PM
I use headphones.  For weak signal work. I have tried to listen to my radio through bookshelf speakers (with the tweeters disconnected and connected) I just would rather put on my AKG K77s when I need to. 

Nothing beats headphones!  Just look at every contest station, every DXpedition, they all have one piece of equipment in common and that's a good set of comfortable headphones.  Once you use them you can never go back to speakers unless it's just for listening to a nice loud QSO.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AD9DX on January 03, 2014, 07:39:22 PM
I use headphones.  For weak signal work. I have tried to listen to my radio through bookshelf speakers (with the tweeters disconnected and connected) I just would rather put on my AKG K77s when I need to. 

Nothing beats headphones!  Just look at every contest station, every DXpedition, they all have one piece of equipment in common and that's a good set of comfortable headphones.  Once you use them you can never go back to speakers unless it's just for listening to a nice loud QSO.


The AKGs are stupid light too. I did a 14 hour run with them earlier this year with no neck strain. Copy errors on CW... That was a different story.  I don't use clusters for contests.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: W3DBB on January 09, 2014, 11:00:20 AM
I've read the comments and find myself agreeing with most of them. Not in the market for a new or used rig but Kenwood wins in just about every product category.

In decades past I was a Yaesu fan but that ship has sailed. Their recent stuff has more than its share of problems. The only Yaesu I would risk plunking down money for is a lowly FT-60.

Icom rigs are overpriced because of all the giveaway promotions they run for D-Star and ARRL contest sponsorships. Who needs it? 

Yaesu and Icom remind me of the Big Three automakers after the 2000-2002 recession. Too many product lines with too few customers. Sales volume in the higher price classes never reaches a level sufficient for the manufacturer to work out all the bugs. Customers are stuck. We all know how that worked out.

Since that time Kenwood has fielded fewer rigs in fewer categories and kept them in the product line for longer periods of time. It's been a good strategy.

American-made amateur transceivers seem unfinished to me. They're geographically and culturally too far from their components suppliers. It shows in the operation and appearance of their products.

The Chinese have a long way to go and I don't think they'll ever get there. They'll have re-descended into chaos, as they have throughout their history, before that happens. Their current lot of VHF-UHF transceivers are junk. Ditto for the receivers. The only time purchase of their stuff makes sense is when it's sold for a rock-bottom price.

China has an innovative policy for disposing of toxic waste and scrap. They use it to manufacture products for export which end up in the importing nation's landfills.

The only Kenwood products I own are 2 pairs of ancient HS-4 headphones, acquired used at hamfests. These things have to be in the 25-30 yr age range. They've held up well!


Doug
W3DBB   


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K2GWK on January 10, 2014, 07:06:19 AM
I've read the comments and find myself agreeing with most of them. Not in the market for a new or used rig but Kenwood wins in just about every product category.

In decades past I was a Yaesu fan but that ship has sailed. Their recent stuff has more than its share of problems. The only Yaesu I would risk plunking down money for is a lowly FT-60.

Icom rigs are overpriced because of all the giveaway promotions they run for D-Star and ARRL contest sponsorships. Who needs it? 

Yaesu and Icom remind me of the Big Three automakers after the 2000-2002 recession. Too many product lines with too few customers. Sales volume in the higher price classes never reaches a level sufficient for the manufacturer to work out all the bugs. Customers are stuck. We all know how that worked out.

Since that time Kenwood has fielded fewer rigs in fewer categories and kept them in the product line for longer periods of time. It's been a good strategy.

American-made amateur transceivers seem unfinished to me. They're geographically and culturally too far from their components suppliers. It shows in the operation and appearance of their products.

The Chinese have a long way to go and I don't think they'll ever get there. They'll have re-descended into chaos, as they have throughout their history, before that happens. Their current lot of VHF-UHF transceivers are junk. Ditto for the receivers. The only time purchase of their stuff makes sense is when it's sold for a rock-bottom price.

China has an innovative policy for disposing of toxic waste and scrap. They use it to manufacture products for export which end up in the importing nation's landfills.

The only Kenwood products I own are 2 pairs of ancient HS-4 headphones, acquired used at hamfests. These things have to be in the 25-30 yr age range. They've held up well!


Doug
W3DBB   

We all have our personal preferences but Yaesu FTDX-5000 and FTDX-9000 and The Icom IC-7700 and IC-7800 are fine radios and until recently Kenwood did not have an answer. While it is true they are expensive, they are great radios. To deny that would be foolish. If I could afford one I would buy any of those four radios in a heartbeat. I also do not understand your statements when you claim that the only Kenwood products you own are a pair of headphones.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KH6DC on January 13, 2014, 03:34:55 PM
It's not a super radio, it's just a plain old radio.  Nothing special about it.


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AD9DX on January 13, 2014, 07:36:49 PM
It's not a super radio, it's just a plain old radio.  Nothing special about it.

What makes a super radio in your eyes?


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: K9MHZ on January 13, 2014, 07:47:59 PM
While it is true they are expensive, they are great radios. To deny that would be foolish. If I could afford one I would buy any of those four radios in a heartbeat.


Very, very well put!  Some of this odd brand loyalty in actuality just shows the zealot's lack of any understanding of what they're spouting off.

 


Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: KD8MJR on January 14, 2014, 11:16:45 AM
It's not a super radio, it's just a plain old radio.  Nothing special about it.

What makes a super radio in your eyes?

I don't know about him but for me it's radios that cover all the bases and cover them properly.  They may not be the absolute best in any one area but they are always up there near the top in just about every category. As Zenki said getting as close to doing all 25 things right and not just excelling at 5 and forgetting the others.

7800/7700/990S/5000 are IMO radios that fit in that category of super radio's.




Title: RE: WHat is so offensive about the K3
Post by: AD9DX on January 15, 2014, 06:19:25 AM
It's not a super radio, it's just a plain old radio.  Nothing special about it.

What makes a super radio in your eyes?

I don't know about him but for me it's radios that cover all the bases and cover them properly.  They may not be the absolute best in any one area but they are always up there near the top in just about every category. As Zenki said getting as close to doing all 25 things right and not just excelling at 5 and forgetting the others.

7800/7700/990S/5000 are IMO radios that fit in that category of super radio's.




I thought the 7800 was just an OK radio. I've spent a lot of time operating one and it just didn't do it for me. The selectivity on crowded bands was average at best and bettered by radios that cost half. But since I am mainly a CW OP that means the most to me. The 7800 does have some of the absolute best RX audio that I have ever heard though, but it is a shame a radio it's size and price has such a wimpy audio amplifier 1w output is silly on something that costs 10k.

The FTDX 5000 is an amazing rig it has better SSB audio than my K3 and equal selectivity with some really odd ergonomics (something my K3 also shares) the reason I didn't go with one was that I like to operate portable and I like to take my rig to our field day events. Taking a FTDX 5000 to field day would be a chore.