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eHam Forums => CW => Topic started by: AD7XN on December 25, 2013, 01:39:30 PM



Title: underlin
Post by: AD7XN on December 25, 2013, 01:39:30 PM
Being a newbie to CW, there is one operation that confuses me ;-How is the underline symbol used ? 
Is it put before the word, or character, or after as I can't see how it can be put UNDER.


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: W7ASA on December 25, 2013, 02:17:32 PM
Perhaps I am missing something.

Are you asking how to specify that a word is underlined in Morse code?

Technically, there is a character in American Morse   ..--.-  and perhaps some person who used to send press releases by telegraph wire may have used it. However, in 43 years of both ham and professional International Morse via radio, I've never used an equivalent. Perhaps some of the maritime Sparkies who used to send/receive press by International Morse may know about this.  // NOTE: KSM still sends free press by international Morse code by radio on Saturdays! //


73 de Ray
..--.- W7ASA ..--.-


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: ZL1BBW on December 25, 2013, 02:29:14 PM
Any idea what time/freq KSM is on with the press.  Remember a Chief Eng who was adamant about wanting the stock market results, never even gave a me a beer for the trouble. :)


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: W7ASA on December 25, 2013, 02:36:18 PM
Speakin' o'Sparkies - here's one now.


WHAT?!?!?  No Beer = No Traffic passed.

That's in the Radioman's Manual !

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8yDjtDOx9ws/S76If8qHeOI/AAAAAAAAEbk/MBfRsMpH5O4/s1600/radiomansguide.jpg)

- - - uh, somewhere, I am certain!

Here's the web page where the schedule is maintained.  

http://radiomarine.org/gallery/show?keyword=ksmstation&panel=pab1_2 (http://radiomarine.org/gallery/show?keyword=ksmstation&panel=pab1_2)


You'd enjoy roving the website in general, because it's filled with all kinds of great Morse lore - even for an old ground-pounder like me.


73 & ZUT  de Ray
W7ASA ..._  ._


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: KD8IIC on December 25, 2013, 11:18:49 PM
KSM's schedule on can be found at the MRHS web page. National Maritime Historical Society.  73


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: AA4N on December 26, 2013, 06:46:08 AM
Well, it sounds like you are wanting to make the CW character set work like the ASCII set.  It's not a very good analogy.

There isn't any formatting available, like upper/lower case, bold, italic, underline, etc...  It's just uppercase alphabet with a bit of punctuation and a few control-type codes.

Head copy would be pretty miserable if we had to keep up with all that...

The RTTY character set starts resembling the modern computer stuff, but it was a keyboard mode from the beginning.

Hope I understood your question properly.  Good luck with CW.  I think you'll find that it's very versatile mode.

73.  Mike


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: KB4QAA on December 26, 2013, 07:10:19 AM
Being a newbie to CW, there is one operation that confuses me ;-How is the underline symbol used ?  
Is it put before the word, or character, or after as I can't see how it can be put UNDER.
Perhaps your question is about Prosigns (Procedural Signs) that are shown as two letters with an underline e.g.  AR; BT; BK; SK.

They are sent without any spacing between the letters.

Some Prosigns may be broken down to a different letter combination e.g. AS (Wait) could also be represented as (IB), but standard conventions should be used.

Note that Q Signals like QST, QTH, and accepted signals like CQ and RST are sent as separate letters.


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: K7KBN on December 26, 2013, 05:34:23 PM
Being a newbie to CW, there is one operation that confuses me ;-How is the underline symbol used ?  
Is it put before the word, or character, or after as I can't see how it can be put UNDER.
Perhaps your question is about Prosigns (Procedural Signs) that are shown as two letters with an underline e.g.  AR; BT; BK; SK.

They are sent without any spacing between the letters.

Some Prosigns may be broken down to a different letter combination e.g. AS (Wait) could also be represented as (IB), but standard conventions should be used.

Note that Q Signals like QST, QTH, and accepted signals like CQ and RST are sent as separate letters.

1.  AS (wait) is not the same as "IB".  Now "EB" would be accurate.

2.  Those characters consisting of two (or more) letters sent as one word have always been OVERscored, rather than underscored (i.e. the solid line is above the letters, not under).  However, a typical font set doesn't appear to have that capability.


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: W7ASA on December 26, 2013, 05:47:45 PM
"EB"   Govorite pa PUCCI?  ha ha  Not many people outside of the old school eastern bloc radistas know about THAT one; assuming we are talking about the same Morse shorthand.


DSW de Ray
W7ASA ..._  ._


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: AD7XN on December 26, 2013, 06:57:16 PM
I just did a check of all the CW courses I have tried, and the symbol; _ or .._ _._ is called either UNDERLINE, or UNDERSCORE
and all of them teach it.  I suppose it is taught because a lot of computer address etc use it, but I don't remember ever learning
it in high school English, other then using it to UNDERLINE a word for emphases .


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: K7KBN on December 27, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
I'm not sure if there's any official Morse symbol for underlining, whether for emphasis or whatever other reason; the military certainly didn't use anything like that, right up until the time they stopped using CW for radio comms.

The OVERscore, also called a ligature or ligature line, is what I was talking about in my earlier post.  Everything beneath such a ligature is to be sent as one character.  All of my old ARRL publications used the ligature in articles about Morse code when such procedure signals were needed.

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Prosigns_for_Morse_code?o=2801&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: K9MRD on December 28, 2013, 08:44:23 AM
From Page 16 of the ARRL Field Day Handbook: Underline = IQ

http://www.arrl.org/shop/files/pdfs/FDHand2.pdf


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: K7KBN on December 28, 2013, 11:38:06 AM
From Page 16 of the ARRL Field Day Handbook: Underline = IQ

http://www.arrl.org/shop/files/pdfs/FDHand2.pdf

I remember a few years ago when the character @ was "code-ified" as ".--.-.", which would be "AC" sent as one character, i.e. OVERscored.  Look on page 19 of that link you sent, in the far right-hand column.  All of those punctuation marks, procedural signals and whatnot have the ligature line above them -- including the @.

The problem I see with sending an "UNDERLINE" signal, intending the receiving station to actually underline something for emphasis, would be simply "where do I end the underline?"  Until the mid-1960s, military operators and others had the same problem with parentheses.  Up until that time, the left and right parentheses were the same: KN overscored.  Then somebody, somewhere, saved the day by changing the right parenthesis to KK overscored.

As somebody earlier mentioned, the underline would probably be used for email and Internet addresses, the same way as the @. 


Title: RE: underlin
Post by: K9MRD on December 29, 2013, 11:29:46 AM
The problem I see with sending an "UNDERLINE" signal, intending the receiving station to actually underline something for emphasis, would be simply "where do I end the underline?" 

I wondered the same thing.  My guess was sending the same code at the end of the 'underlined' phrase would toggle it off.  I have never used or even thought of using an underline. :)

Wayne