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eHam Forums => Clubs => Topic started by: AC2EU on June 30, 2014, 08:05:35 AM



Title: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on June 30, 2014, 08:05:35 AM
Hello all,

I'm not a young guy, but I am relatively new to AR. I have been learning CW pretty much on my own, since the club CW guys like to see themselves as elite and anyone who can't do 30 wpm or doesn't know everything about being a CW op is just a LID.
They don't seem to have any interest in reducing the "LID population" by teaching or mentoring, either.

On field day , I got yelled at for not jumping on a CW CQ fast enough by one of the elite. The fact of the matter was that I simply wanted to listen for a second time to make sure I got the call correct. They were 20-30 WPM exchanges which were a stretch for me to copy.
When did all of this stop being fun and become a blood sport?

Elmer must have been a great guy, but I am yet to meet him. Has he passed on?


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AF6WL on June 30, 2014, 08:23:32 AM
Less haste more speed ... I also hear so many fast calls with no reply and wonder if just slowing down occasionally would result in more QSOs .

Are there some stats showing morse reading speed over the population of active amateurs - I'm sure that distribution would not be centered on 25wpm. Perhaps it's bimodal 12 and 25 ?


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K6CPO on June 30, 2014, 09:58:29 AM
Hello all,

I'm not a young guy, but I am relatively new to AR. I have been learning CW pretty much on my own, since the club CW guys like to see themselves as elite and anyone who can't do 30 wpm or doesn't know everything about being a CW op is just a LID.
They don't seem to have any interest in reducing the "LID population" by teaching or mentoring, either.

On field day , I got yelled at for not jumping on a CW CQ fast enough by one of the elite. The fact of the matter was that I simply wanted to listen for a second time to make sure I got the call correct. They were 20-30 WPM exchanges which were a stretch for me to copy.
When did all of this stop being fun and become a blood sport?

Elmer must have been a great guy, but I am yet to meet him. Has he passed on?

Find yourself another club.  The has to be one out there that is welcoming to newer hams.

I know I wouldn't be long in a club like that.  If someone yelled at me for trying to get the correct call, it's likely I would have gotten up from the operating position and walked off. 

It's the elitist, "I hate no-code hams" attitude that is going to kill amateur radio.  it's going to drive off the new people and the elite will eventually die off. 


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N4AAB on June 30, 2014, 12:30:12 PM
Elmering went down hill somewhere between the early 1970s and this century. I got fairly good help back then, hardly any now.

I would say find a new club as well. The one who yelled at you must think they are perfect, and they aren't.



Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K1CJS on June 30, 2014, 01:32:50 PM
It isn't only ham radio.  Society in general is at fault.  Do it right, do it the first time, don't waste time, and the granddaddy--if you don't do it my way, you're not doing it right!

I agree with finding another club.  There's got to be one around, even if you have to travel eight or ten--or more--miles to get to it.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K8QV on June 30, 2014, 01:57:26 PM
Elmers used to be younger, I think. The only people left who know anything about classic ham radio, as opposed to computer/digital/EMCOMM, are about 112 years old and understandably cranky. Don't get me wrong, I'm an old fart, too, but I observe that these days few want to teach and fewer want to learn. I am lucky, however, to know a couple of exceptions, so keep looking.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on June 30, 2014, 03:22:43 PM
Elmers used to be younger, I think. The only people left who know anything about classic ham radio, as opposed to computer/digital/EMCOMM, are about 112 years old and understandably cranky. Don't get me wrong, I'm an old fart, too, but I observe that these days few want to teach and fewer want to learn. I am lucky, however, to know a couple of exceptions, so keep looking.

Actually, in this club, most of the ancient guys are quite helpful, but don't have the energy to "go all in". It's the middle age guys that run the thing that should be "Elmering" or at minimum, refrain from calling newbies LIDS and be patient with others  if they don't wish to mentor. Some have been doing CW since they were teenagers. I have been at it for only two years
It's like they are saying "you'll never measure up to OUR standards". Who needs that crap? Give me another year or two and I'll be able to keep up with high speed CW,only because I'm a stubborn , tenacious S.O.B, but certainly no thanks to this group.

I  posted this in the club section so that other AR clubs ( and maybe mine, too) will stop and think about the face they are presenting to the public and new members. Perhaps they will reflect why people might want to join their club in the first place and understand that there are numerous facets to the hobby-NOT just what they are into. .. If you don't care, it will be a very small club, if any club at all.



Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AA4PB on June 30, 2014, 04:33:23 PM
In my experience (since the late 1950's) a club field day is often not a good place for a new ham (or new to CW) to be operating the radio. Too many people are all out to obtain a winning score for the club and they are easily upset if they think someone is not keeping up the QSO rate. I found field day much more enjoyable when a couple of friends and I used to set up a tent, generator, and a single radio. Zero pressure because none of us cared much about the score or QSO rate - we were just there to have fun. Took plenty of breaks. Shut down the station for meals and to get a decent night's sleep.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: WA2ONH on June 30, 2014, 07:19:17 PM
And than there's the question, when was Elmer born?

If you have access to the March 1971 Issue of QST or ARRL Pub Archives,
look up the "How's DX" Column by W9BRD Rod Newkirk, page 91.

That's the 1st time "Elmer" appeared and was noted by Newkirk as
" ... someone who provides personal guidance and assistance to would-be-hams.
We need those Elmers. The unsung fathers of Amateur Radio."


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: G7MRV on July 01, 2014, 09:43:36 AM
One thing I really cannot stand is when people think they have the right to yell or be aggressive to someone simply because that person is not as 'up to speed' on something. I find this in the workplace as well.

Do not allow this to happen to you - in whatever shape or form it is bullying.

A good mentor will always be patient, even if you infuriate them! If anyone does this to me, I will simply explain to them why I dont like it, and move on somewhere else - even if that leaves them in the lurch!

I am 38. I instruct in radio, both amateur and professional broadcasting, but I am also a student - currently learning a new dept, and see it from both sides. Dont let anyone push you around just because your learning, but likewise, consider the context - as someone else said, field day might not be the ideal place to get your initial experience, its a quite 'full-on' environment in many cases.

Likewise, if you are an Elmer - remember that even if your student is an adult, they will be unsure, and possibly nervous - even the big fellas! Ive seen ex-paratroopers sat by my desk shaking and sweating as they take control! Go easy, dont let your own frustration spill over!


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K6CPO on July 01, 2014, 10:33:40 AM
In my experience (since the late 1950's) a club field day is often not a good place for a new ham (or new to CW) to be operating the radio. Too many people are all out to obtain a winning score for the club and they are easily upset if they think someone is not keeping up the QSO rate. I found field day much more enjoyable when a couple of friends and I used to set up a tent, generator, and a single radio. Zero pressure because none of us cared much about the score or QSO rate - we were just there to have fun. Took plenty of breaks. Shut down the station for meals and to get a decent night's sleep.


But Field Day isn't a "contest."  At least that's what everyone says.  I know that in my case, I really don't care much about where my club places in the scoring (and I'm the club President) but more whether everyone enjoyed the weekend and perhaps learned something new.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on July 01, 2014, 12:00:11 PM
Quote
But Field Day isn't a "contest."  At least that's what everyone says.  I know that in my case, I really don't care much about where my club places in the scoring (and I'm the club President) but more whether everyone enjoyed the weekend and perhaps learned something new.

Therein lies the rub. I agree with your philosophy on field day as I believe most others do as well. I ran it as a Ham Radio show case and and an all around fun day.
The turnout was fantastic. This year, when the stated goal was to "win or at least place high in the class", only the hard-core contesters 
showed up. When people ( public or Ham) saw the tense mood, they didn't stay long. I made the mistake of trying to participate.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N8AUC on July 01, 2014, 01:44:01 PM
I agree with K6CPO. Field Day is not a contest. Oh sure, there is a contest aspect to it. That is there to entice participation. But it isn't specifically a contest.

If you ask 10 different people what Field Day is, you'll get 11 different answers. Some will tell you it's a contest, some say it's an EMCOMM exercise, some will say it's a social event, or a club picnic, or an outdoor training class. All of which are correct to one degree or another. It's different things, to different people. And that's OK.

I know that for our club, it's not about being competitive. It's spending some time outdoors with good people, having some good food, making some contacts on the radio, and teaching some of the newer hams by making a demonstration out of scooping up bonus points. We taught some new guys how to handle message traffic when sending the field day message to our section manager. Then let them compose a radiogram and had them check into the local traffic net to try their hand at traffic handling. When that was done, we hooked up a laptop computer to the rig and copied the field day bulletin from W1AW. Mainly to teach the newer folks "here's how you do this". We had fun.

As for your club experience? It's unfortunate, but that can happen sometimes. There are lots of different clubs out there. They're all different, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, desires, attributes, and abilities. Each one brings something a little different to the table. If you're not getting what you need, or want from the club you are with, then by all means find another.

73 de N8AUC
Eric


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KB4QAA on July 01, 2014, 04:11:12 PM
Being growled at about being too slow at Field Day has nothing to do with 'elmers' or helping others gain experience.

Find another group (or start your own) to do Field Day with who share your attitude, be it Cut-throat contest, Fun, Try out others equipment, or beer and brats....whatever. 

I personally don't like the term 'Elmer'.  These days it seems to have the connotation of 'newbs' (argh) who are so lazy they want everything spoon fed to them.  They won't bother to buy a single reference book.   They don't want to build friends so much as a lifetime commitment from some old timer so they can drain the knowledge from them and pester them to death. (exaggeration).

Dont' take the incident personally.   Build friendships with the good people in the club and avoid those who make life unhappy.  b.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K4PIH on July 02, 2014, 09:30:41 AM
You hit the proverbial nail a glancing blow. It's not just that you were uncomfortable with the situation, it's also the fact that the same kind of person that growls at you for not going fast enough, is the same kind of a**hole that steps all over everyone else during contests. Yes it's supposed to be a contest but it's not a war. I've lost count of how many times I have been enjoying a nice easy rag chew with another ham and the CQ Contest morons just come right on down and smother everything. Unfortunately they are usually chasing a W1AW/something for points and just don't care.

Field day has morphed from setting up in a different location, operating, having some good outdoor cooking, and building relationships within the club and on the air, into just another point grab and your club/name in a magazine and anybody else on the air be dammed.

I Elmer My local Boy Scout troop(s), Cub Scouts, Explorer Scouts, and any other group or individual that shows even the slightest interest. The that I belong to worked this past field day and we had a blast! Good people, good food, camping, oh and we will submit logs but the point was to foster friendship in the club and "play" radio not make it into the top 3, 5, or even honorable mention.

Find another group. If the current one asks why you are not interested tell them the truth. Jim or Bob or Sue or whatever call sign got on your case for not meeting their standards and that you decided it’s a hobby and not a religion and don’t need them. 


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N4AAB on July 03, 2014, 08:20:24 AM
In my experience (since the late 1950's) a club field day is often not a good place for a new ham (or new to CW) to be operating the radio. Too many people are all out to obtain a winning score for the club and they are easily upset if they think someone is not keeping up the QSO rate. I found field day much more enjoyable when a couple of friends and I used to set up a tent, generator, and a single radio. Zero pressure because none of us cared much about the score or QSO rate - we were just there to have fun. Took plenty of breaks. Shut down the station for meals and to get a decent night's sleep.


But Field Day isn't a "contest."  At least that's what everyone says.  I know that in my case, I really don't care much about where my club places in the scoring (and I'm the club President) but more whether everyone enjoyed the weekend and perhaps learned something new.

But there are clubs who do treat it as a contest.

The FD site I went to in 2013 was run by a club that didn't try to get into the high ratings, nor did they run it like a contest. I got on the air, made 8 contacts. I was a nervous wreck when I picked up the microphone, but I had fun.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: NA4IT on July 04, 2014, 02:48:42 PM
Sometimes, I feel like the story should be "Who wants to kill Elmer?". Man, some of these new hams know it all... they think. Try to help them, Elmer gets crucified.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on July 06, 2014, 02:28:47 PM
Sometimes, I feel like the story should be "Who wants to kill Elmer?". Man, some of these new hams know it all... they think. Try to help them, Elmer gets crucified.
I have been an EE for many years, yet I have learned never to give unsolicited advice. I hear bad advice given all the time, but there is always that "go-to" guy who knows the answer to every question-even if he has to make it up from pure fiction.

It's kinda funny in a way, but unfortunate for the guy who got the bad info. I once heard something so egregious told to a ham, that I felt compelled to interject myself into the conversation. Yup, it wasn't well received because the "authority" had already spoken on the matter.
It is what it is...


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AA4PB on July 06, 2014, 04:27:28 PM
It's often human nature that the person asking for the advise already has his mind made up and just wants someone to validate the decision for him.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K2GWK on July 08, 2014, 07:06:14 AM
Sometimes, I feel like the story should be "Who wants to kill Elmer?". Man, some of these new hams know it all... they think. Try to help them, Elmer gets crucified.

I don't find that to be the case at all. Most of the new hams I know are simply looking for a way to fit in to the mix. I am no brighter or smarter than any other ham, but I am smart enough to know to only give advice when asked for it and never interject for force advice or my opinion on anyone.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KE4JOY on July 11, 2014, 01:22:49 PM
Man cant believe someone jumped on you because you did not respond 'fast enough' to a field day call.

I think I would have gotten up, walked away, and never looked back except to say "Strike all my contacts from the log if you please".


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: W5HEH on July 11, 2014, 08:05:50 PM
i re,cently got back into this Fun Hobby, emphasis on Fun ! Anyways i do remember my 1st Field Day, the Mentor, (we did not have the term Elmer in those days, hihi I would have said Elmer who ? Fudd ? hihi, (in case you do not know from Bugs Bunny the goofy Farmer who tried to shoot Bugs with his Shot gun , goofy speech , like me when i wake up hihi ) Well to make a long story short, the members explained politely that they were competing and would give me some air time , but until i was up to speed the fast guys and gals would be leading the pack to the finish, and sooner or later they would take a break or get tired and i took my turns, it was fun setting up in the forest old building , even a Bat flew out of the Bathroom as we were setting up , will never forget ! hihi.
     It is all about Communication , which next time this Big Mouth says something to you , set his rear end ,(yah mouth), straight . I guess too many folks today want instant gratification , tell them they will have to get it somewhere else , and not on your Back!  hihi. 73s and Have Fun, this is a great Hobby with many nice people , AJ W5HEH


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: WB4M on August 03, 2014, 08:29:39 PM
Elmer felt he wasn't needed anymore, so he walked off into the sunset.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KQ0J on August 14, 2014, 12:20:57 PM
I would retort with " Where did the good students go? " as well...

I have had my fill with new hams that stick around with us old timers long enough to be given many hundreds of dollars of free gear , advice, time and help only to not ever get on the air ( or rarely)  and disappear from the airwaves soon thereafter ( take it to ebay and make some money boys ). 

Or the guys that want to learn CW and have a contact with you at 5 WPM to get their speed up but when you want to set up an actual date and time - they never have time, lost their key,  their Mother is in town, blah blah.....

Or the guys that cant seem to pick up a Ham radio book or do some basic research on their questions but pepper other ops with basic
questions they should have picked up when studying for their license.

The guys that show up on Field Day after all the work is done and then expect to expertly operate a HF rig in a operating event on 20M when all they have ever done is yak on a storm chasers net on their Wouxun HT. They their feeling are hurt when they jack up the rig settings and fail to log anything properly and someone has to replace them to fix what they messed up.

 


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on August 14, 2014, 03:05:43 PM

I have had my fill with new hams that stick around with us old timers long enough to be given many hundreds of dollars of free gear ,
 

Man, hundreds of dollars worth of gear?  :o  I want to join YOUR club!  ;D


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KQ0J on August 15, 2014, 07:43:18 AM
Yep!  Last guy was outfitted with a TS-830, new G5RV antenna, coax, speaker and other goodies.  Never heard from him again. On HF or on 2M where we had been talking regularly. 

This wasn't a club action specifically just a subgroup trying to help a new guy out.  And it wasnt a teenager in an apartment it was to a 40-50 year old married man with a house.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC6CV on October 26, 2014, 05:43:28 PM
Sometimes, I feel like the story should be "Who wants to kill Elmer?". Man, some of these new hams know it all... they think. Try to help them, Elmer gets crucified.
I have been an EE for many years, yet I have learned never to give unsolicited advice. I hear bad advice given all the time, but there is always that "go-to" guy who knows the answer to every question-even if he has to make it up from pure fiction.

It's kinda funny in a way, but unfortunate for the guy who got the bad info. I once heard something so egregious told to a ham, that I felt compelled to interject myself into the conversation. Yup, it wasn't well received because the "authority" had already spoken on the matter.
It is what it is...


Oh so true. Seems like I have been there before. Always getting involved in field day and being a new club member I wanted to be involved. Their high speed CW member had died. Sad because he was a really great guy. I volunteered to take over the High speed CW position for field day. Would volunteer my computer, transceiver, antenna etc. to get all up and working. I was then advised that they absolutely didn't need my help in any way. Whoa! I just volunteered, I'm not taking over the club. The senior powers didn't want me to be involved, very simple. OK, I just never went back. The really sad part. Every time they see me at a local shopping center they say hi and ask why I don't come to club meetings. They just don't get it. So for the original poster it isn't just if you can copy code or not. They old foggies just can't stand any change.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K4WGE on October 30, 2014, 08:41:24 AM
Quote
When did Elmer die?

It was either during duck season or rabbit season.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on November 03, 2014, 06:49:11 AM
Sometimes, I feel like the story should be "Who wants to kill Elmer?". Man, some of these new hams know it all... they think. Try to help them, Elmer gets crucified.
I have been an EE for many years, yet I have learned never to give unsolicited advice. I hear bad advice given all the time, but there is always that "go-to" guy who knows the answer to every question-even if he has to make it up from pure fiction.

It's kinda funny in a way, but unfortunate for the guy who got the bad info. I once heard something so egregious told to a ham, that I felt compelled to interject myself into the conversation. Yup, it wasn't well received because the "authority" had already spoken on the matter.
It is what it is...


Oh so true. Seems like I have been there before. Always getting involved in field day and being a new club member I wanted to be involved. Their high speed CW member had died. Sad because he was a really great guy. I volunteered to take over the High speed CW position for field day. Would volunteer my computer, transceiver, antenna etc. to get all up and working. I was then advised that they absolutely didn't need my help in any way. Whoa! I just volunteered, I'm not taking over the club. The senior powers didn't want me to be involved, very simple. OK, I just never went back. The really sad part. Every time they see me at a local shopping center they say hi and ask why I don't come to club meetings. They just don't get it. So for the original poster it isn't just if you can copy code or not. They old foggies just can't stand any change.
If you weren't from the Northwest, I'd swear that we participated in the same club! There are some very spooky similarities !

Also, along the "Elmer theme", there was a post on this forum recently where a new ham wanted to learn CW. One respondent suggested a local CW class. Of the three local clubs in my area, none have offered this, claiming a lack of interest. I submit that the problem is more like a lack of interested instructors. Most of the experienced ops around here prefer to be seen as practitioners of the "black arts" and offer no help whatsoever. I think they are afraid to teach others, fearing that they will become less "special".

I no longer attend meetings either .


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on November 03, 2014, 06:56:08 AM
Quote
When did Elmer die?

It was either during duck season or rabbit season.

I bet it was "wabbit" season.  ;D


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N4KD on November 04, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
Quote
When did Elmer die?

It was either during duck season or rabbit season.

I bet it was "wabbit" season.  ;D

Elmer? He shoulda made a left turn at Albuquerque.

I agree with the others... Shop around until you find a club that suits you.

vy 73,
Dave N4KD


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: SMAUG on December 14, 2014, 04:33:04 AM
My club is expensive, $40 a year. My club's officers maintain the point of view that the primary purpose of Field Day is to introduce amateur radio, especially HF, to the great unlicensed public.

We moved our Field Day site this past year, and the top consideration was how visible it would be for passing foot traffic and how attractive it would be for would-be hams.

Most members of the club are friendly and will pause to answer a question.

One member heard of my plight when setting up a VHF/UHF antenna outside. He came over the next day with two different antenna analyzers, and gave me lots of his time, asking nothing in return.

The club has over 220 members, most of whom don't seem to be active.  ???  Maybe they just want to be able to use any of the club repeaters, guilt-free.

****

Be careful that you don't view the whole club negatively just because one guy has lost sight of what's important. If the whole club is like that, then yeah, it's time to move on.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K8PRG on February 08, 2015, 06:59:42 AM
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones....I told my Elmer that I was getting pretty comfortable with copying 13 wpm, and had been practicing with the straight key. I'm getting close to working on my first QSO, but I better practice with someone first.....he told me to let him know when I'm ready...he said "we'll do 3, 5, 10 words a minute, what ever you want...we're both retired so we have all day".
He also helped me get my dipole in the air.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KD8IIC on February 11, 2015, 12:02:11 AM
 You're ready to get your fist on the air right now. Don't be shy or skeerd, It's part of the thrill of that first QSO  :). Yes, you will mess up a little, beeg deal, but the memory will last a lifetime! Enjoy it...  73


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KC2QYM on February 12, 2015, 09:02:06 AM
There are few real elmers still around...but they are rare.  There used to be more but here are a few reasons why there aren't that many around:

- Many real gentlemen elmers have passed on to become SKs

- Those that were elmers earlier in life have become old men without any patience left for guys that don't want to try to figure things out for themselves.

- Some guys who were elmers have found it lucrative to charge newcomers money for parts, repairs, etc. No more free fixing for guys that don't pick up a book or research a problem first.

- Many hams are applinace operators today, they can even buy wire antennas without even trying to build a simple dipole.  Why waste your knowledge on such dolts.

Ham radio is filled with its own folklore and nostalgia.  Even some myths and lies which we are supposed accept as those great magic days of yore.  Ask anyone what that stupid old ARRL wooden shaft thing is...what do they call it..a Wuffhong, wonghung, whatever they call it.  What's that for?  Who cares?


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K8PRG on February 12, 2015, 10:30:36 AM
You're ready to get your fist on the air right now. Don't be shy or skeerd, It's part of the thrill of that first QSO  :). Yes, you will mess up a little, beeg deal, but the memory will last a lifetime! Enjoy it...  73

Thanks for the words of encouragement...I'll be looking for ya soon......I hope you can find me before KC2QYM does....sounds like that would be a QSO I would never forget alright.... ;D


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N6PG on February 14, 2015, 03:33:16 PM
Hello all,

I'm not a young guy, but I am relatively new to AR. I have been learning CW pretty much on my own, since the club CW guys like to see themselves as elite and anyone who can't do 30 wpm or doesn't know everything about being a CW op is just a LID.
They don't seem to have any interest in reducing the "LID population" by teaching or mentoring, either.

On field day , I got yelled at for not jumping on a CW CQ fast enough by one of the elite. The fact of the matter was that I simply wanted to listen for a second time to make sure I got the call correct. They were 20-30 WPM exchanges which were a stretch for me to copy.
When did all of this stop being fun and become a blood sport?

Elmer must have been a great guy, but I am yet to meet him. Has he passed on?

You should feel sorry for this guy. It's difficult to not take it personally, but he is clearly a troubled person.  A comment like that can really set one back. Rest assured, there are many hams standing by to help.  People like that need to be talked to....


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KE7VE on February 15, 2015, 09:36:31 PM
Elmer never existed. He was made up just like Santa Claus, and I'm not interested in being Santa for you or your Elmer.

In the world there are children, who I will show and teach anything I know to. There are adults who I expect to learn and teach things to themselves. Then there are "children" who have large bodies and pretend to be adults except when they want the free benefit of the work and knowledge I have acquired.

I have built three houses, done everything from the ASTM soil testing and designing the foundation to framing , wiring, plumbing, dry wall, roofing and all the finish work.

Do you know of some reason I should spend my time showing you how to do all this? It's not enough to say you share an interest in having a house along with me.

I have rebuilt more motorcycle and car engines than I can count. Any reason I should invite you to use my garage and the thousands of dollars of my tools and give you my knowledge so you can fix/rebuilt your vehicle? Yes, we share an interest. So what?

A long time ago I learned the code and basic electronics so I could get an amateur radio license by myself. Later I needed to find a way to pay for going to college and getting 2 degrees in geology, so what I did was pay money to learn electronics in greater depth so I could make a living at it. It was a good investment and allowed me to make enough money to become a petroleum exploration geologist. I did well and actually took a cut in pay to first work as a geologist.

Do you see some reason I should teach you Geology, or Ham Radio, or Electronics? If you are an adult, do it yourself.

Do you see a mentor/Elmer somewhere in here. I don't. What I can do I taught/learned myself so I could eat and live like I wanted to.

Elmers never existed, if they had, they would be NO schools, colleges or universities.

You want to know about something, do it yourself. I have myself and a family to take care of.............and through my taxes evidently a lot of other dead weight.

BTW I have taught scores of cub scouts how to identify rocks, minerals and fossils and the basic principles of electricity along with doing JOTA. These were kids, not adults who act like kids.

Elmer is your excuse for not doing it yourself, grow up.

Consider if the OP ended stating this:

"What I learned at field day was I was really not competent enough to operate a CW contest station and what I'm going to do is practice and get very very good at this so it will never happen again."







Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: W5FRR on February 16, 2015, 10:21:09 AM
Elmer never existed. He was made up just like Santa Claus, and I'm not interested in being Santa for you or your Elmer.

We already have enough angry, old, curmudgeons in amateur radio to fill the quota.

My biggest hope is that you are bitter and selfish enough to not belong to any club, organization, or participate in any activity interacting with the public.  It is best that others don't see your attitude and misinterpret it as what amateur radio is all about.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KK5DR on February 16, 2015, 06:00:55 PM
"Smooth is fast, perfection is smooth."
First, learn to send perfect code, regardless of the speed sent.
A clean and precise fist is a thing of beauty.
As you gain more experiance, the speed will build, but always keep it clean, and well formed.
Those out there that copy your code will find it easy to copy, and as your speed builds, they too, will follow.
It's one thing to send code at 30+pm, but it isn't worth a darn if it's sent badly.
Strive to be a surgeon with your sending, clean and precise.
Work you way up in the speed.
Get on the air, best practice you can ever do.
When I begain as as a ham, I would spend hours copying code, sending code, making QSOs.
I would practice off the air too, sending code from a practice oscillator into a code reading PC program, striving for perfect copy on the PC.
I would also listen to the ARRL practice transmissions, which are computer sent and perfect.
There are those that will say you need to hear bad code too. I say you need the benchmark referance to start, so you can deal with the bad sending more easily.
This is just my opinion, you may, or may not use it as you wish.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: W9FIB on February 16, 2015, 08:49:04 PM
RJR does make some good points. However they are valid only to a point. I don't think his definition of an Elmer is correct.

I look at it this way. You can have all the degrees the university has to offer. Does that automatically make you an expert? If you say yes, then you are simply being dishonest with yourself. Trust me, I went through that myself. It took me a while to understand that a degree alone was no guaranty of success. It is what you learn after you get the degree, and the ability to use it that separates the talented from the wannabes.

I had a classmate in college that got much better grades then me. But he was dumber then a box of rocks when it came time to apply what he learned. The last I knew he was going around cleaning copy machines for a living. Not a bad job, but what is he really using from his education. Not much.

But if you take that first job, apply yourself, watch those with far more experience, ask questions when you don't know; you will soon discover that your education may have gotten you in the door, but your ability to continue to learn from others will help you excel. While that type of experience is not often referred to as being "Elmered", it is just that.

Now the same applies to HR. You study and get a license. You begin in the hobby and suddenly you run into a problem and you can't figure it out. So you talk with other hams and they point you in the right direction. Guess what; you just got Elmered! And the person that pointed for you was an Elmer. No fanfare. No money changing hands. No ego trips. Just a few words from 1 ham to another.

That to me is the beauty of it. No need for a formal contract. No need to be called an Elmer. No need to call someone an Elmer. Just the simplest thing humans can do for each other. Just talk about something and gain a little wisdom.

Sometimes people here are Elmers and they don't even know it. I can't tell you how many times I have read threads here that looked interesting and learned something from those that took the time to write.

When did Elmer die? I really don't think he/she did. It may no longer be as formal or personal as it used to be. But a bit of information written in a forum that is read by many may help more then just the one. So anyone who gains some knowledge from another has been Elmered. And it is not dead, or the posted questions would never get answered.

Now getting back to RJR's comment that there never has been an Elmer, is just plain wrong. But I would bet somewhere along the line he must have asked a question of the more experienced somewhere in his career. So he was Elmered and didn't even know it.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KD8IIC on February 16, 2015, 11:39:49 PM
 FFR : Well put OM!  ....  Could not have said it better...   73


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K8PRG on February 17, 2015, 05:11:28 AM
Do all Geologists live and work in caves all by themselves?  ;D


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N6PG on February 17, 2015, 10:28:24 PM



Do you see some reason I should teach you Geology, or Ham Radio, or Electronics? If you are an adult, do it yourself.

Do you see a mentor/Elmer somewhere in here. I don't. What I can do I taught/learned myself so I could eat and live like I wanted to.

Elmers never existed, if they had, they would be NO schools, colleges or universities.

You want to know about something, do it yourself. I have myself and a family to take care of.............and through my taxes evidently a lot of other dead weight.

BTW I have taught scores of cub scouts how to identify rocks, minerals and fossils and the basic principles of electricity along with doing JOTA. These were kids, not adults who act like kids.

Elmer is your excuse for not doing it yourself, grow up.

Consider if the OP ended stating this:

"What I learned at field day was I was really not competent enough to operate a CW contest station and what I'm going to do is practice and get very very good at this so it will never happen again."







This isn't for work. It's a hobby. Nobody expects you to teach anybody anything. I'm grateful for those that have helped me. I generally try and do everything myself... But I've really benefited from people kind enough to post on youtube. I like working on my car, but I'm not a mechanic. I read and research... But it's still saved me countless hours when someone guides me. I remember that, and I try to pass it on. If someone is too lazy to put in any effort, that's a different story.
IMHO.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KY6M on February 18, 2015, 08:06:04 AM
This thread demonstrates how selfish young people grow into nasty old people. But in the end, those nasty old people (NOP for short) die surrounded by their ham gear, now they generously donate their gear to the world, maybe in that somebody will profit from their life of selfishness.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K4ISR on February 18, 2015, 11:42:17 AM
I see it as a combination of factors.
There are still a few helpful Elmers around, but it has become increasingly rare to find one, luckily there are a few in my area. The ones still working for a living typically do not have much time to stop by to help, the older hams that are retired typically stick with their local group of like minded cranky old elites (COEs as described by a local Elmer), WB2RJR is a perfect example of this. "Do it yourself and don't bug me if you have questions about it" type of mentality, expecting us to learn everything ourselves and trying to ask them a question they know the answer to somehow makes us less of a ham, or makes us lids. Fortunately there are a few real Elmers left out there (like in my area KI5FR, K4NDJ, and W4RH) and they tend to dislike those "COE"s as well.

At the same time, so many of these younger hams (my age and younger, aka mid 30s and younger), are part of this "NOW" generation where they want to buy a radio and get on the air as soon as they turn the power on. Anything more and they falter, they fail to understand that they need to enter the frequency, offset, CTCSS/tone, power level and so on. When it comes to the more involved stations they just buy something, put it up and expect it to work, yet when it doesn't work (or not well) they become frustrated and have very little patience. They are part of this generation of set it and forget it, preprogrammed, toss it when it breaks instead of fixing it, let me use it "now" generation. Trying to get them to replace that $20 radio shack RG-58 because they're not reaching the UHF repeater 20 miles away is like pulling cats teeth. Trying to get them to fix a diode in that TS-120S their uncle gave them is like trying to teach them 30 different languages at once. This "NOW" generation has no patience and little capability to think for themselves, which makes for a very aggravating time for people my age and older.
I am part of the last generation to actually have some patience and understand that troubleshooting is needed with almost everything. Add in that not everything can just be taken to the local mechanic to be fixed for cheap seems to go above their heads. Radio Shack no longer repairs radios, and trying to find any radio repair shop within 200 miles is nearly impossible unless you live in a bigger city. So we have to be self sufficient most of the time and learn soldering and some basic electronic theory and practices, which is way beyond the capability or patience level of this "NOW" generation.

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying all old people are COEs, nor are all young people selfish "NOW" types, but that is the general consensus within the given age groups. And here I am stuck in the middle of it all.  ;D


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: W9GB on February 20, 2015, 11:40:08 AM
You have seen in the news the increase of Airline crashes/disasters, especially in the emerging Eastern Asian markets.  Airbus earlier this week announced changes to the pilot training (simulator and classroom) for their airplanes.
--
So what goes into this new training philosophy?
Airbus says there are three targets — making the training more effective, efficient and ‘fun’.

This last aim may seem out-of-place for some but research over past decades has shown how retention of knowledge is improved the more interactive it becomes. In fact, the highest levels of retention (90%) stem from teaching information to someone else. While reading hovers at 10%, and audio-visual learning at 20%, discussion and practice methods give 50% and 75% retention levels respectively. In this instructors are set to move from a one-way briefings or lectures to discussion and ‘facilitating discovery’.
Airbus’s new training philosophy thus takes elements from how we learn to operate smartphones/or tablet computers today — not by reading thick manuals, but by interaction and trying it out.
See more at: http://aerosociety.com/News/Insight-Blog/2851/ACEs-high-A350XWB-pilot-training#sthash.ltFgx9Zd.dpuf

====
This actually is a return to experiental or "hands-on" learning, that was eliminated from many educational methods, beginning in the 1980s.  By the 1990s, electronics hardware labs were closed/sold-off to facilitate more classrooms for software/programming coursework.
The sad part, many of those have no idea how the underlying hardware (that they are controlling) actually works.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KC2QYM on March 03, 2015, 07:24:50 AM
A guy studies for his ticket and becomes a general.  Buys a used transceiver, power supply, builds a dipole and strings it up. Has no previous operating time with another ham so his skills on phone are limited.  First thing I would do is listen for a while to observe how hams are communicating.  I would find some unused frequency and tune up and test my output.  Maybe he has RF coming down to his rig because of mismatches, etc.  So what does he do.  Well let's say he makes contact with some station and that station hears the RF.  Most of the time, the other station will advise the new guy what steps he might take to fix the problem.  Also, since we are in the internet age, most if not all of the information is available.  In previous decades that information was only avaiable in a handful of books and via 'elmers'.  Therefore, today, there's no excuse why a new ham can't emerge in a relatively capable manner from the start.  As he operates on the air others will advise him for improvements; a half intelligent guy will figure things out relatively quick.  Throw the myriad personalities into the mix and you have the state of humanity juxtaposed into the hobby which is what we witness all the time on the air and on these threads.  I wouldn't worry too much if the original 'elmer' has faded away.  Guys will figure things out or they won't.  If they can't then someone will help them..normally.  So if you want to call him 'elmer' that's your choice.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KI4OYV on May 22, 2015, 06:39:20 AM
I started a new topic on ELMER forum about this also. Here's my 2c worth from there:

Hello Elmer's,
   
When did Elmer die?  I've asked this question to myself a few times in the 10 years I've been a Ham. Still haven't gotten a good answer. I know NOT ALL Elmer's are like this, but I've found that this is getting to be more the norm then not. My main concern is that when asking a question, you usually get a snide remark or no answer.  I'm not mad at any of these people, just disappointed at those who ignore others who are seeking advice.  Don't comment about so & so's rig or lack of training. Ask them about it and make suggestion. Help them get Their Tech, Gen or Extra. You all needed help at one time or another. Share the experience and advance OUR hobby. Remember the "Corrective criticism is better then nasty/snide remarks."
73
RIP Elmer! You Are Missed!

Are Elmers a dying breed? Maybe, Maybe not


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: NW0LF on May 22, 2015, 12:05:38 PM
I may not be the hobby for the last 200 years and send code at 50 WPM with my toes while holding a conversation with you on a completely different topic, but I am an Elmer.  I don't give unsolicited advice, don't butt my nose in anyone's business and do my best to answer every question asked of me and if I don't know the answer, I will cheerfully say so and hep find the answer.  I have Elmered several people over my 16 years as a ham and have helped many, many more just as I was helped when I first got into radio.  The COEs (I like that term Michael) all seem to forget that they started out knowing nothing, probably asked questions and had gotten help along the way- no one comes out of the womb.  I haven't forgotten and I feel that I would be doing my Elmers a disservice if I didn't help others. We decide our path in life every day.  I can choose to be like RJR-or I can choose to be someone I would want to be around.  I choose the latter.  Personally, I find learning in a group environment fun.  If you want help, I'm here.  If you have questions, I'm here.  If you want opinions, ask someone else.  I don't give opinions, I try to give useful information to help you make your own informed decisions.  Ask 10 hams in a room for their opinion on a topic and you will get 30 different opinions!  Marco, if you can't get answers to questions from people around you, email me- NW0LF@dawoolfe.com.  I will help if I can.  Elmers may be a dying breed but there are some of us still around.

"Wolfie", NW0LF

IT is not the class of license the ham holds but the class of the ham that holds the license.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: SOFAR on May 22, 2015, 03:36:34 PM
My experience: Elmers are still out there, its just not as formal a relationship as it used to be. .... Can't speak for clubs or repeaters, don't use the repeaters so never joined a club. .... The person I consider an informal Elmer, I met on .52, and for 70 years old he still has a pleasant disposition.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KB4QAA on May 25, 2015, 10:30:32 AM
My experience: Elmers are still out there, its just not as formal a relationship as it used to be. ....
There NEVER WAS a formal relationship!

That's the problem today.  There is a certainly group of new guys who show up on the web and expect to be assigned an Elmer who is going to hold their hand and spoon feed them information.  Be at their beck and call to solve all their problems, while they fail to make even minimal efforts or investments.  

They refuse to buy manuals and handbooks.   Some show up at club meetings and whine about having to spend $25 on a study guide.  They expect the club to subsidize their hobby!

"Make friends, not Elmers!".


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K7MEM on May 25, 2015, 11:29:01 AM
My experience: Elmers are still out there, its just not as formal a relationship as it used to be. ....
There NEVER WAS a formal relationship!

I pretty much agree with QAA. At least for me, there never was a formal relationship with an Elmer. When I got my Novice license (1965) there were some people that provided some help, and then gave me a push and I was on my own. Some of them I met on 2 Meters, in the AM days. Some of them gave me equipment that they no longer used. No instruction came with the equipment, but I didn't need any. I got a general coverage receiver from one ham and a 2 Meter converter from another. It only took me a week to figure out how to mix that with my Heathkit Twoer.

But sometimes it can work into a personal relationship. I have a friend that was a code listener for the USAF and was stationed in the Azores. He had his Novice license but never got on the air. Eventually he let it expire and forgot most of the code. He asked me to help him get his license back. At the time I only had a Novice license. I never bothered to upgrade because that was all I needed. So I decided that I would upgrade, and at the same time, he was getting his license back. Over a 6 month period my friend went from Novice to Tech to General. And that included the 5 and 13 WPM Morse tests. I went a little further and wound up with an Extra. But now we are good friends. We like to go to ham fests together. He considers me his Elmer (Actually he considered me his Oscar until I told him that a Oscar is a satellite).


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KA4LFP on May 26, 2015, 05:09:50 PM
In my experience (since the late 1950's) a club field day is often not a good place for a new ham (or new to CW) to be operating the radio. Too many people are all out to obtain a winning score for the club and they are easily upset if they think someone is not keeping up the QSO rate. I found field day much more enjoyable when a couple of friends and I used to set up a tent, generator, and a single radio. Zero pressure because none of us cared much about the score or QSO rate - we were just there to have fun. Took plenty of breaks. Shut down the station for meals and to get a decent night's sleep.


BINGO!

I haven't been to a Field Day in several years -- but when I go this year, I hope this is where our local club operates -- in the realm of getting multiple rigs up, multiple power sources, antennas, etc... and not the "how many QSOs can we make how fast"...



Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KA4LFP on May 26, 2015, 05:20:24 PM
I volunteered to take over the High speed CW position for field day. Would volunteer my computer, transceiver, antenna etc. to get all up and working. I was then advised that they absolutely didn't need my help in any way. Whoa! I just volunteered, I'm not taking over the club. The senior powers didn't want me to be involved, very simple. OK, I just never went back. The really sad part. Every time they see me at a local shopping center they say hi and ask why I don't come to club meetings. They just don't get it.

You should tell them that when they ask -- Really....
A lot of the older folks just don't get the fact that others in the club (or themselves) have done something insulting and arrogant and earned your disinterest...

Telling them that is the first step towards getting them to fix it.

If they don't listen after they've been told how they insulted you, then you walk away.



Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on May 27, 2015, 09:47:54 AM
I volunteered to take over the High speed CW position for field day. Would volunteer my computer, transceiver, antenna etc. to get all up and working. I was then advised that they absolutely didn't need my help in any way. Whoa! I just volunteered, I'm not taking over the club. The senior powers didn't want me to be involved, very simple. OK, I just never went back. The really sad part. Every time they see me at a local shopping center they say hi and ask why I don't come to club meetings. They just don't get it.

You should tell them that when they ask -- Really....
A lot of the older folks just don't get the fact that others in the club (or themselves) have done something insulting and arrogant and earned your disinterest...

Telling them that is the first step towards getting them to fix it.

If they don't listen after they've been told how they insulted you, then you walk away.



People like that have their own agenda and inner circle, so "Resistance is futile"...moving on is the best option if it bugs you. They really don't want to have to deal with new people. The other option is to let them do what they do and enjoy the fruits of THEIR labor. 
It's ironic that the same folks will complain that nobody "steps up" , but lock out those who try to help.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: W4KVW on June 06, 2015, 01:47:14 PM
Elmer died when Bugs Bunny also got a Shotgun.Be very very quiet,we are Elmer Hunting.  ;D

Clayton
W4KVW


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: VE3LYX on June 13, 2015, 05:18:48 AM
Don't let others define you. I operate a fair amount of AM and discovered there are more critics then Elmers there which surprised me. Some have their new mega buck SDR Rx on and are doing the happy dance singing "I found something you did wrong" IE just wanted to let you know om that your off freq a half a KC and your not modulating 100% (My rig was designed with just under 40% mod and being a collectable is NOT getting any modifications) Then there is the "I heard a P--weak in there although they often run  tests themselves with PW stuff. Or this one I heard the other day from someone who always tunes up on freq going "Yay Yay Yay" and he had the nerve to tell someone "use the dummy dummy" I felt compelled to press the PTT and say. "Why, You never do". (No it wasn't me he was talking to)And then there is the one who is always critcal of everyones signal , even rude but his RX/tX antenna switch is and has been for several years unscrewing his coax from the rx and screwing it on to the TX which takes up many minutes of time we often don't have. That all said there still are some great folks out there who will go out of their way to help you with a test or sked and who will answer questions in a non condescending manner. I have been exactly where you were in field days as well back when I was first licensed. Now I do field day at home. Avoid those who are rude. Don't even reply to their CQs. Water the friendships you value. Eventually some may realize that they are not fun to be around. Some may change but some won't. And always be ready to be an Elmer to someone else WHEN THEY NEED it.
Now the comment about high speed CW and no answer I must address. there is a Ham (K something)operating where I do on 80M CW who constantly calls CQ and a good clip but very few ever get to answer him because he leaves no space for an answer. I could not believe it when I first heard him but he has not changed. I can hear folks trying to reply , in fact I have tried myself but he doesn't appear to understand the purpose of a receiver. Anyway don't let the elite and rude spoil your hobby. Just hold them up as a bad example and determine not to become like them.  
don


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N7ZAL on June 13, 2015, 10:57:55 AM
Elmer is a new word that I despise and it fits into the CBification of ham radio.

We never had "elmers" when I started out and we just learned the stuff by ourselves and with the help of a few oldtimers.

Today with the INTERNET all the information you need is available...of course when I started we had to read books and manuals. :)

Some of the problems with ham radio today is people think they need their hand held to learn anything.

Regardless, using the word "elmer" makes you sound like a neophyte...it should be banned.  :(


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: SOFAR on June 13, 2015, 11:41:18 AM
@ Bill, ever finish that book?


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N7ZAL on June 13, 2015, 04:50:44 PM
@ Bill, ever finish that book?

Which one?


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: VE3LYX on June 13, 2015, 04:58:31 PM
"with the help of a few oldtimers."
Who are known as Elmers.
Mine was a fellow named Bill Drulak (ve3hbn) who gave me just that extra encouragement that made the difference from staying an SWL or becoming an actual Ham.
don


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N3HFS on June 13, 2015, 05:01:33 PM
I believe that the Elmer died when the Internet was born.  

It's very hard for younger hams to understand that knowledge resources used to be retained either in books or in humans.  It was a lot easier to ask a question of a human than a book!  For books, you'd have to first figure out which book contained the answer, and then you'd need to obtain a copy of that book and find the answer within.

If the guy down the street, the science teacher at school, or the experienced ham at the club meeting was available, there was always a good chance that they would be able to give (or more easily find/help_find) the answers to your questions!

Today, all one needs is access to the "search" field of an appropriate internet site and perhaps a bit of culling through the results to find any answers one usually seeks!


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N7ZAL on June 13, 2015, 05:53:12 PM
Just as an FYI, the term "Elmer" was only created recently...in the 1970's. It is actually a new term (ARRL created) and I never heard it as a kid in the 1950's. Hence it is a foreign sound to my ears.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on June 13, 2015, 07:05:02 PM
Just as an FYI, the term "Elmer" was only created recently...in the 1970's. It is actually a new term (ARRL created) and I never heard it as a kid in the 1950's. Hence it is a foreign sound to my ears.

...you mean that he's kinda like the tooth fairy and fairy godmother?
I think you are correct, sir!
Did you have any sort of mentor back then or were you left to sink or swim on your own the way it is now?


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: N7ZAL on June 13, 2015, 08:09:50 PM
Quote
Did you have any sort of mentor back then or were you left to sink or swim on your own the way it is now?

Really didn't have a "mentor" as such, although I would watch others and learn from them. Basically a lot of reading, tearing old radios and TVs apart, and building things was how I learned. I did join a radio club but don't recall any help from it. Ryder made a great basic electronics series that I read every night, over and over. Of course the ARRL Handbook was a great knowledge base.

Times have changed and not sure what I'd do today. Probably bypass ham radio and dive into building computers and writing software.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: K8PRG on June 14, 2015, 07:51:42 AM
Did you have any sort of mentor back then or were you left to sink or swim on your own the way it is now?

That's not "the way it is now" for everyone.
I've only been licensed for 6 months  and I find myself surrounded by guys willing to help with any problem I have....I've had them over to my shack to check out my grounding, another to show me how to use a antenna analyzer, another who owns the same radio I just aquired came over to ask if I had any questions on how to use it...I had plenty.
Several have sked QSOs to help me with my code...one sent me his favorite study guide that helped me pass my General exam.
I'm always getting invites to go over to check out their antenna systems.
So now I'm gonna hear about how I don't have the wherewithal to figure such things out  myself, but I know that comes with the territory here.
My point is, Elmer/mentor/ham buddy, whatever you want to call him, is alive and well in my community. I know I'm fortunate to have this help, and if that's an exception rather than the rule, I feel even more so.


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: AC2EU on June 14, 2015, 08:28:49 AM
Did you have any sort of mentor back then or were you left to sink or swim on your own the way it is now?

That's not "the way it is now" for everyone.
I've only been licensed for 6 months  and I find myself surrounded by guys willing to help with any problem I have....I've had them over to my shack to check out my grounding, another to show me how to use a antenna analyzer, another who owns the same radio I just aquired came over to ask if I had any questions on how to use it...I had plenty.
Several have sked QSOs to help me with my code...one sent me his favorite study guide that helped me pass my General exam.
I'm always getting invites to go over to check out their antenna systems.
So now I'm gonna hear about how I don't have the wherewithal to figure such things out  myself, but I know that comes with the territory here.
My point is, Elmer/mentor/ham buddy, whatever you want to call him, is alive and well in my community. I know I'm fortunate to have this help, and if that's an exception rather than the rule, I feel even more so.


I am happy to read about the helpful, friendly folks YOUR area. Sounds great! It should be that way everywhere, but I have seen too many newbies turned off by the "grumpy old men societies' around here. It's more like they expect you to Kow-tow to their abuse and indifference for possible acceptance in many of the clubs. Who needs that?  I tried to keep the new people with encouragement and allowing their participation while the core club members did the polar opposite. Some even resorted to sabotage. Unfortunately there are more of them than me!


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: WV8RS on June 19, 2015, 06:11:45 AM
 In answer to AC2EU, No Jim "Elmer" is not dead... He's just gotten older, retired and now lives way back in the hills... He can be sometimes spotted up the tower of a Brand new "Ham" showing him or her how to synchronize their rotor with a control box. Under the Desk of a new Technician with a meter helping to chase an RF Problem. He's also been sighted helping  a fellow "Ham" locate an SWR problem with his Tri-Bander... No Jim, he's not dead... He's just sometimes, real busy...  73 and hope to catch ya on the "Bands"...  One of them "Old" Guys...


Title: RE: When did Elmer die?
Post by: KD8TUT on July 26, 2015, 05:30:50 PM
Did you have any sort of mentor back then or were you left to sink or swim on your own the way it is now?

That's not "the way it is now" for everyone.
I've only been licensed for 6 months  and I find myself surrounded by guys willing to help with any problem I have....I've had them over to my shack to check out my grounding, another to show me how to use a antenna analyzer, another who owns the same radio I just aquired came over to ask if I had any questions on how to use it...I had plenty.
Several have sked QSOs to help me with my code...one sent me his favorite study guide that helped me pass my General exam.
I'm always getting invites to go over to check out their antenna systems.
So now I'm gonna hear about how I don't have the wherewithal to figure such things out  myself, but I know that comes with the territory here.
My point is, Elmer/mentor/ham buddy, whatever you want to call him, is alive and well in my community. I know I'm fortunate to have this help, and if that's an exception rather than the rule, I feel even more so.


I am happy to read about the helpful, friendly folks YOUR area. Sounds great! It should be that way everywhere, but I have seen too many newbies turned off by the "grumpy old men societies' around here. It's more like they expect you to Kow-tow to their abuse and indifference for possible acceptance in many of the clubs. Who needs that?  I tried to keep the new people with encouragement and allowing their participation while the core club members did the polar opposite. Some even resorted to sabotage. Unfortunately there are more of them than me!

I ran into the same situation in the beginning. I just found a different club.

The clubs who do not welcome new members or young people die a slow death anyway.