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eHam Forums => Computers And Software => Topic started by: KM3K on August 11, 2014, 06:22:19 PM



Title: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KM3K on August 11, 2014, 06:22:19 PM
Hello,
A couple weeks ago, my XP-machine (used by XYL and me for emails, googling, etc) suddenly lost its mind in spite of my best efforts to keep it sane.
I replaced it with a HP-Win7 tower.
(Another HP-Win7 tower has been in place dedicated for ham-radio use for the past three years.)
In the last week or so, on Yahoo forums, there have been a flurry of postings about Microsoft's rules to obsolete OperatingSystems, all of which were new to me.
Cannot do much about it now but I do wonder if it was a mistake getting Win7 on the newest tower.
Is there any consensus on getting Win7 vs Win8??
Of course, I can always upgrade...at a price.
BTW, I balked at the $220 price for Office2013 and tried OpenOffice for a while; it looks like I'm going to spend the $220.
73 Jerry KM3K


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W8JX on August 11, 2014, 06:48:09 PM
Many will disagree but 7 is loosing main stream support in 6 months. After that it will receive security updates only (just like Vista still gets). On office 2013, you can spend 99 bucks a year for premium version of it and use it on up to 5 PC's. As long as you pay you also get any new versions that are released. You could look around for Office 2010 too.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 11, 2014, 07:05:37 PM
You did the right thing and got the right OS.
Win8 is a dud and Microsoft has admitted that through the many firings and the regrouping for win9.  A tablet OS is horrible to use on a PC and you are much better off with Win7.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W4KYR on August 11, 2014, 07:14:17 PM
I would have gone with the Windows 7 too.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

Windows 9 is not that far away and I am sure there will be deals to upgrade to Windows 9.

As far as Office 2013, I use Open Office for pretty much everything. But if you absolutely need Office 2013, then I guess that is what you have to get.

Perhaps when Windows 9 is released, they might have some "bundle deals" with Office on new laptops or desktops.

Another option is is you can hold out until Black Friday, maybe you can run across some Office 2013 deals then.



Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: VK6IS on August 12, 2014, 04:01:34 AM
 would have gone with the Windows 7 too.

+1


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: G8YMW on August 12, 2014, 04:11:42 AM
Definitely went right. Win 9 aka Threshold further unpicks the abortion that is Win 8.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KK4GGL on August 12, 2014, 04:38:42 AM
BTW, I balked at the $220 price for Office2013 and tried OpenOffice for a while; it looks like I'm going to spend the $220.
73 Jerry KM3K

Would you mind telling us why you will be returning to Microsoft Office? You might want to try LibreOffice, which is a fork of Open Office. I don't believe OpenOffice has caught up to LibreOffice, even though it is now and Apache project. And yes, I do understand that LibreOffice may not have the same needed features that MS Office has.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K1CJS on August 12, 2014, 08:21:51 AM
I too agree that you made the right choice.  And forget that talk about support ending--there are two kinds of support.  One is when additions and new features are added, and the other is when the bug fixes and code tweaking ends.  

This is a part of an article on Forbes, dated July 10, 2014.

Quote
Mainstream Support Vs. Extended Support

On 13 January 2015 Windows 7’s ‘Mainstream Support’ will come to an end. That means no new Service Packs or features will be released. This is wholly different from the end of ‘Extended Support’ which is what happened to Windows XP on 8 April 2014.

Extended Support is the big one: no more security patches when hackers find holes, no performance improvements, nothing – the OS is effectively dead. Windows 7 Extended Support will not end until 14 January 2020. For comparison Windows XP Mainstream Support ended back on 8 April 2009.

Consequently most can breathe a sigh of relief, especially with Windows 7 currently running on over 50% of PCs around the world. If Windows XP was hard to kill, Windows 7 is likely to be even harder.

As you can see, the naysayers and supporters/shills of new Microsoft products are playing on your fears when they proclaim an end to Windows 7 support.  It will not happen for a good long while.  73!


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: AE5J on August 12, 2014, 11:15:53 AM
Having been an engineer/programmer for government/military systems for quite some time, it should be noted that no operating system is hack-proof or completely secure. No operating system is beyond breach.

Simple reason: computer security is not a matter of operating system, but access. Unplug your computer from the internet and you are 99.99% safe from all security issues. Only national technical means can take advantage of the remaining issues. If you have two computers and one is connected to the internet, nothing may ever be transferred to the "secure" computer from the internet-connected device by any means - no files, photos, programs, music, videos, USB sticks, disk drives, cloud - nothing.

You may take a secure file from the secure computer to the unsecure one, but whatever means or hardware you use may never be reconnected to the secure computer and that file may never come back. People often ask me how they can make their computer secure if it is connected to the internet. Simple. Determine how much you want people to know about you and then don't put any security-sensitive information of any kind on it. Ever. If you only follow that guideline, it really makes no difference if you're running XP or 7 or whatever. Remember the first rule of computer security is there is no such thing.

So what does that mean for us as Hams? I really don't care who looks at my computer logbook, or my copy of HRD, or anything else I use for my hobby. I select the operating system that fits my needs and runs my apps. In my case, I use Win 7 and still have a couple of old systems running XP. I found nothing of value to justify the expense of Win 8, so I don't use it. Just me. I think you made the right choice in selecting Win 7. I don't depend on Microsoft, Apple, or anyone else for security. I actually have two secure computers - an old XP and a new Win 7. You can try to break into them, but you'll have to sneak by the lights, alarms, dogs, and more lethal stuff to get what is on them. Makes life interesting for the dedicated hacker!  :D

73  Pete


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W8JX on August 12, 2014, 11:19:24 AM
You did the right thing and got the right OS.
Win8 is a dud and Microsoft has admitted that through the many firings and the regrouping for win9.  A tablet OS is horrible to use on a PC and you are much better off with Win7.


As usual you are wrong. It is not a horrible OS but rather different. It does have a desktop mode that seems to escape those that are stuck on old designs and it has many features lacking it 7. Anyone that preaches 7 over 8.x usually has never used and lived with 8.x long term and are blowing smoke and still waiting for XP to return.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KM3K on August 12, 2014, 12:07:20 PM
My thanks to all who responded to my question.
I certainly feel better now about win7.

To Rick kk4ggl about OpenOffice and Libre...

I'll take a look at Libre very soon.

For almost 35 years, I've used spreadsheets for almost all my work on a computer.
I was a design-engineer and spreadsheets are a great tool for designing crystal and LC filters.
I started with Visicalc (you may not have even been born when Visicalc came on the scene in 1979.), switched to Lotus and then Excel.

I prefer to work with the keyboard's short-cut keys rather than the mouse.
Also, "drag-and-drop" is a keen feature.
In both cases, OpenOffice did not always mimic Excel; for me that was an issue, especially "drag-and-drop".
My work-around was cut and paste; too much hassel for me for a simple operation.
In time, I could get used to OpenOffice but not having "drag-and-drop" is significant.

MS Office has a little known gem; the F4 key is a "repeat" key, which I find very useful; I could not find a similar feature in OpenOffice.

I should mention what I was doing in OpenOffice's spreadsheet.
I had an Outlook contacts list that I made into a .csv file.
That file needed to be formatted in a particular way to be accepted by Comcast's email.
I had to rearrange columns and also do some housecleaning of records that should have been done long ago.

Now, here is the most important reason to not use OpenOffice:
Our grandaughter, from time to time, needs to use a printer for homework.
We have a printer that she can use; so far we have successfully discouraged her parents about buying one.
This way, we get to see our grandaughter more frequently.
She is used to MS Office already, so I see no reason to introduce a new learning curve.

73 Jerry KM3K

 



Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K5UNX on August 12, 2014, 03:03:45 PM
Asking about Win 7 vs Win 8 around here results in something like a religious argument. Win 7 is nearing the end of normal support. Hot sure the date but it's coming way faster than Win 8.

The problem with Win 8 in people's minds is that it's a Tablet OS. It is NOT. It is an OS that will work on a tablet with the Metro interface. The fact that that same metro interface even exists on a PC with Win 8 is disconcerting for some. They don't seem to realize that Win 8 and 8.1 both have a normal looking Windows desktop. Yea the traditional start menu is no longer there.  The newer start screen is easy to use and actually faster to launch applications once you unpin the stuff you don't use and make it your own. Again the look of it seems to put people off.

I have been using Win 1 and 8.1 since last fall at work and have ZERO issues that Win 7 would solve. I recommend Win 8.1. Some people just don't like change.

That said, since you already have Win 7 it would be a hassle to change now. Win 7 is just fine also. Like some have said, waiting for Win 9 won't be a bad thing for you now.

LibreOffice is now the "standard" open office platform. Most the Linux distro's are using that. My son uses it on Windows and likes it.

The thing with the grad-daughter might be worth spending the money on Office though!



Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 12, 2014, 03:46:42 PM
They don't seem to realize that Win 8 and 8.1 both have a normal looking- Windows desktop. Yea the traditional start menu is no longer there.  

That's kind of like saying it's a normal looking airplane it just doesn't have wings!

And no, that is not an exaggeration.  The start menu is the heart of the windows GUI, if you remove that then you have to navigate and do things in a completely new manor.  The problem is that IMO the new method in Windows 8 is a giant step backwards. I guess many agree since all those involved in the changes got the Axe.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 12, 2014, 04:04:49 PM
You did the right thing and got the right OS.
Win8 is a dud and Microsoft has admitted that through the many firings and the regrouping for win9.  A tablet OS is horrible to use on a PC and you are much better off with Win7.


As usual you are wrong. It is not a horrible OS but rather different. It does have a desktop mode that seems to escape those that are stuck on old designs and it has many features lacking it 7. Anyone that preaches 7 over 8.x usually has never used and lived with 8.x long term and are blowing smoke and still waiting for XP to return.


John I think you will never understand because your living in your own little world of Win8 and its uses that benefit you.

Right now I am using 5 major programs to finish a project.  Photoshop, Dreamweaver CC, Flash CC, Omnipage 8 and Altium Designer.  All of those programs are major pieces of software to master and use.  I don't have time to waste playing with Win8 because for me the OS is kind of like a shopping cart, it holds my groceries while I do my shopping.  At the end of the day that is really all an OS is.  So long as it's stable and has what I need to get my software working, I am happy with it.

For you on the other hand it seems like your really taken up with playing with the OS itself.  Why don't you try picking up Photoshop and learning that, I guarantee you that after you master that you won't give two cents what OS your PC is running.  As for Altium, I would not wish that one even on you.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K5UNX on August 12, 2014, 04:13:31 PM
They don't seem to realize that Win 8 and 8.1 both have a normal looking- Windows desktop. Yea the traditional start menu is no longer there.  
That's kind of like saying it's a normal looking airplane it just doesn't have wings!

And no, that is not an exaggeration.  The start menu is the heart of the windows GUI, if you remove that then you have to navigate and do things in a completely new manor.  The problem is that IMO the new method in Windows 8 is a giant step backwards. I guess many agree since all those involved in the changes got the Axe.

The Start menu is part of the old GUI but the Start menu doesn't make Windows Windows. Like mentioned in another response, it's the apps people need to focus on as that is how your tasks get done. Win 8 just has a different shaped wings. To someone stuck in the past that's weird I suppose. It's totally NOT difficult starting programs in Win 8 .  . It's just a little different.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 12, 2014, 07:25:09 PM
Wayne I t's not the starting of them that is my biggest issue with Win8 it's also finding settings and configuring hardware etc.  I just can't waste time on learning another method of tying my shoes when the old method works just as well.  I would rather spend my time messing with and learning something new in Photoshop or another piece of software because that is time that pays off in getting a project done faster.

Rob


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W8JX on August 13, 2014, 07:09:55 AM
Wayne I t's not the starting of them that is my biggest issue with Win8 it's also finding settings and configuring hardware etc.

It is very easy to do "IF" you know what you are doing and how to use 8. (actually easier than 7 about a lot of things)  But, if you use it with a XP/7 mentality, you will have problems.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: G8YMW on August 13, 2014, 08:41:29 AM
That is a very big "if". Where do you get the information on how to use 8?
The days of manuals are history. Have been since before Vista came out.

Don't say look on the Internet, if you cannot get started you are in deep kackypooh.
That is one reason I'm not very good with this Android (I'm at our caravan, not at home hence not on the desktop)



Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W8JX on August 13, 2014, 08:58:56 AM
That is a very big "if". Where do you get the information on how to use 8?
The days of manuals are history. Have been since before Vista came out.

I learned it by tinkering and having a tablet at same time help me learn quicker but there is a wealth of info out on web if you simply search and I am not talking MS site either.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: G8YMW on August 13, 2014, 09:59:09 AM
I said DON'T SAY LOOK ON THE INTERNET and what did you say???
As an ex farmer, I've always worked on the principle that if it doesn't work first time or isn't intuitive then it's either in the bin or it's money back time.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W8JX on August 13, 2014, 10:06:34 AM
I said DON'T SAY LOOK ON THE INTERNET and what did you say???
As an ex farmer, I've always worked on the principle that if it doesn't work first time or isn't intuitive then it's either in the bin or it's money back time.

Well then you are shooting yourself in foot because Internet has replace print about a lot of things.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K5UNX on August 13, 2014, 10:09:48 AM
I said DON'T SAY LOOK ON THE INTERNET and what did you say???
As an ex farmer, I've always worked on the principle that if it doesn't work first time or isn't intuitive then it's either in the bin or it's money back time.

Seriously? It's 2014 and you want a paper manual and not any info on the Net?


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 13, 2014, 10:25:21 AM
Seriously? It's 2014 and you want a paper manual and not any info on the Net?

That's true but I will still take a paper manual any day of the week over searching the web.
Even younger kids get very impressed when something comes with a proper manual.

Just yesterday I had an argument with a friend over old school photography and digital photography.  He likes the modern style of just taking lots of pictures and storing them on his hard drive for future use.   I prefer to have each picture printed out and put in an album and I went further to state that the only pictures that are worth a bean if you consider longevity is black and white photo's done from film.

We both agreed on that one and I said to him that I agree that 95% of people will be doing what he is doing which means that this planet is possibly one massive solar flare away from being reduced back to the dark ages, and on that one we also both agreed.

 BTW I am biased, I lost 5 years worth of digital photos when a hard drive crashed.  At first I was not worried, I had all the pictures backed up onto CD's.  Well those disks turned out to be useless, even though they were stored in a cool dark area.  Reading up on it I found out that the "100 year" life span of CD's is pure rubbish.  If you have stuff archived on DVD's or CD's I seriously suggest you take them out and make fresh copies every 3-4 years.



Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W8JX on August 13, 2014, 10:39:02 AM
That's true but I will still take a paper manual any day of the week over searching the web.
Even younger kids get very impressed when something comes with a proper manual.

I know of very very few that even read a printed manual and electronic ones are far interactive and detailed and easier to search too

Just yesterday I had an argument with a friend over old school photography and digital photography.  He likes the modern style of just taking lots of pictures and storing them on his hard drive for future use.   I prefer to have each picture printed out and put in an album and I went further to state that the only pictures that are worth a bean if you consider longevity is black and white photo's done from film.

You likely like XP too. Tablets, not PC's are GREAT for this and the new photo album. Way better than a printed one as you can zoom them too with a touch. Plus you can back it up and transfer pictures easily and life expectance is virtually unlimited if you check update storage media every several years.

We both agreed on that one and I said to him that I agree that 95% of people will be doing what he is doing which means that this planet is possibly one massive solar flare away from being reduced back to the dark ages, and on that one we also both agreed.

Even if there was a flare technology would recover and given that you can easily save millions of hi def pictures on a stick in your pocket it is far more secure and likely to survive than a room full of photo albums.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K5UNX on August 13, 2014, 10:56:41 AM
Seriously? It's 2014 and you want a paper manual and not any info on the Net?

That's true but I will still take a paper manual any day of the week over searching the web.
Even younger kids get very impressed when something comes with a proper manual.

Just yesterday I had an argument with a friend over old school photography and digital photography.  He likes the modern style of just taking lots of pictures and storing them on his hard drive for future use.   I prefer to have each picture printed out and put in an album and I went further to state that the only pictures that are worth a bean if you consider longevity is black and white photo's done from film.

We both agreed on that one and I said to him that I agree that 95% of people will be doing what he is doing which means that this planet is possibly one massive solar flare away from being reduced back to the dark ages, and on that one we also both agreed.

 BTW I am biased, I lost 5 years worth of digital photos when a hard drive crashed.  At first I was not worried, I had all the pictures backed up onto CD's.  Well those disks turned out to be useless, even though they were stored in a cool dark area.  Reading up on it I found out that the "100 year" life span of CD's is pure rubbish.  If you have stuff archived on DVD's or CD's I seriously suggest you take them out and make fresh copies every 3-4 years.


Lack of proper backups is a whole other topic. Look up 3-2-1 backup strategy.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 13, 2014, 10:58:37 AM
W8JX It's pretty obvious you have not done any repair work.  Try fixing your car with an online service manual versus a paper manual.   Online manuals are OK when your working on PC issues or a piece of equipment that you can hold right in front of you while you look at the PDF.
For everything else you have to print out the sheets and carry them with you.  Also I cannot scribble a pencil note on a PDF like I can on a paper manual.

And yes I know Mr. Tablet that your going to say oh just carry your tablet around.  As I said before, you certainly have never repaired anything in the real world, if you did you would know that a paper manual is 1000% better in most real world cases.


On item #2:
If you have a proper solar flare hit the earth most likely all those cheap memory sticks and all this other electronic  crap that is made in China will be dead, my photo albums will be just fine!

And BTW if you think USB memory stick are reliable you don't use them much.  I have had at least 3 of them go dead over the last 4 years, and when they die it's very sudden!  Your data is just gone with no warning.  Same problem with SSD drives, I had a friend lose a crap load of data on one in an Alienware Laptop.  He called them and they said there is no way to retrieve the data.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W8JX on August 13, 2014, 11:13:45 AM
W8JX It's pretty obvious you have not done any repair work.  Try fixing your car with an online service manual versus a paper manual.   Online manuals are OK when your working on PC issues or a piece of equipment that you can hold right in front of you while you look at the PDF.
For everything else you have to print out the sheets and carry them with you.  Also I cannot scribble a pencil note on a PDF like I can on a paper manual.

You assume way too much. I find online support better than any manual. It is cheaper to produce (no printing costs) and you can spend more time making it and updating it for far less total cost. A lot of video how too support too. Print is dying like XP.


And yes I know Mr. Tablet that your going to say oh just carry your tablet around.  As I said before, you certainly have never repaired anything in the real world, if you did you would know that a paper manual is 1000% better in most real world cases.

No I carry my phone which also has a copy of photo album and I can access tech data on fly. Print is dead. WHen mI need print I print it out from web which is easy with a WIndoze tablet, fairly easy with Droid and very hard with Apple. 



If you have a proper solar flare hit the earth most likely all those cheap memory sticks and all this other electronic  crap that is made in China will be dead, my photo albums will be just fine!

They make just the thing for you gloom and dooms. The make a stick that goes in a harden  metal capsule that will survive most things short of a big hammer or nuke.

And BTW if you think USB memory stick are reliable you don't use them much.  I have had at least 3 of them go dead over the last 4 years, and when they die it's very sudden!  Your data is just gone with no warning.  Same problem with SSD drives, I had a friend lose a crap load of data on one in an Alienware Laptop.  He called them and they said there is no way to retrieve the data.

Never had one fail and I use them a lot. I do replace them every 2 or 3 years and use more than one for backups or critical stuff.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K9IUQ on August 13, 2014, 05:44:28 PM
John I think you will never understand because your living in your own little world of Win8 and its uses that benefit you.

W8JX forgets that it is Different strokes for Different folks. What is right for him sucks for the majority of us.

John loves his wonderful Rusty vertical sans radials. I could never live with such a setup. Been then and done it when I was about 16 years old when I had a Gotham vertical sans radials. I learned quickly that a vertical without radials is not a competitive antenna that would satisfy my antenna needs. Different strokes for Different folks

I started using Tablets with a Kindle Fire and moved onto a Kindle Fire HD. Then a Asus Android. None of these solutions were satisfying me. I got an iPad Air. Bingo, a match made in heaven for me. W8JX would never be happy with my choices, that is fine with me. It has nothing to do with my limited vision or never change attitude.   :D :D  Different strokes for Different folks

I started computer life with a TRS-80 and graduated to a Atari 800, Atari 1200, Apple II, Apple IIE, Apple IIGS, C-64,and finally to the PC World. All of these OSes were right for me at the time. When they no longer did what I wanted to do I moved on to something else. In the Pc world I have had MS-Dos, Win 2.0, Win 3.0, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98, Win ME Win Xp, Several different flavors of Linux, Win Vista and WIn 7. When Win 7 no longer satisfies my computer life I will move on to something else. At this point in time I see no reason to move to Win 8. For someone that W8JX accuses of having limited vision and resistant to change I submit quite the opposite is true.  I am sure my above choices have been different than W8JX's. Different strokes for Different folks

It should be obvious to anyone that who reads any computer tech news that Window RT - AKA Win Really Terrible is dead. Anyone even contemplating a move to Win RT at this point in time needs some serious help. W8JX spouts continuously that Win 7 is on life support. He fails to mention that Win Really Terrible died with the release of the Surface Pro 3 Tablets. Win 8 for the PC is not far behind. Win 8 was a huge mistake for Microsoft for which many MS employees paid for by losing their jobs. Both Consumers and Companies shunned Win 8.

At this point in time it would be really foolish to buy into Win 8. Win 9 is around the corner.

Now I know W8JX will sit down and write a fanatical multi page rebuttal to my opinions. It is OK. Different strokes for Different folks

We are all different hams/people with different ideas of what is best. I know what I like and what satisfies my Computer and Hamradio hobbies. I do not need W8JX and his fanatical religious fervor to help me with my decisions. He has views that would NOT work for ME.  Different strokes for Different folks

Stan K9IUQ







Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W8JX on August 14, 2014, 12:55:12 PM
John I think you will never understand because your living in your own little world of Win8 and its uses that benefit you.

W8JX forgets that it is Different strokes for Different folks. What is right for him sucks for the majority of us.

John loves his wonderful Rusty vertical sans radials. I could never live with such a setup. Been then and done it when I was about 16 years old when I had a Gotham vertical sans radials. I learned quickly that a vertical without radials is not a competitive antenna that would satisfy my antenna needs. Different strokes for Different folks

I started using Tablets with a Kindle Fire and moved onto a Kindle Fire HD. Then a Asus Android. None of these solutions were satisfying me. I got an iPad Air. Bingo, a match made in heaven for me. W8JX would never be happy with my choices, that is fine with me. It has nothing to do with my limited vision or never change attitude.   :D :D  Different strokes for Different folks

I started computer life with a TRS-80 and graduated to a Atari 800, Atari 1200, Apple II, Apple IIE, Apple IIGS, C-64,and finally to the PC World. All of these OSes were right for me at the time. When they no longer did what I wanted to do I moved on to something else. In the Pc world I have had MS-Dos, Win 2.0, Win 3.0, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98, Win ME Win Xp, Several different flavors of Linux, Win Vista and WIn 7. When Win 7 no longer satisfies my computer life I will move on to something else. At this point in time I see no reason to move to Win 8. For someone that W8JX accuses of having limited vision and resistant to change I submit quite the opposite is true.  I am sure my above choices have been different than W8JX's. Different strokes for Different folks

It should be obvious to anyone that who reads any computer tech news that Window RT - AKA Win Really Terrible is dead. Anyone even contemplating a move to Win RT at this point in time needs some serious help. W8JX spouts continuously that Win 7 is on life support. He fails to mention that Win Really Terrible died with the release of the Surface Pro 3 Tablets. Win 8 for the PC is not far behind. Win 8 was a huge mistake for Microsoft for which many MS employees paid for by losing their jobs. Both Consumers and Companies shunned Win 8.

At this point in time it would be really foolish to buy into Win 8. Win 9 is around the corner.

Now I know W8JX will sit down and write a fanatical multi page rebuttal to my opinions. It is OK. Different strokes for Different folks

We are all different hams/people with different ideas of what is best. I know what I like and what satisfies my Computer and Hamradio hobbies. I do not need W8JX and his fanatical religious fervor to help me with my decisions. He has views that would NOT work for ME.  Different strokes for Different folks

Stan K9IUQ


You really are insecure Stan. So said. Yes some people drink koolaid and cling to past like Stan and some move forward technology and those that understand are attack by those that do not... Kinda like politics offer no facts and ignore reality and lay the BS on thick to cover ignorance of reality. 


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 14, 2014, 01:39:28 PM
You really are insecure Stan. So said. Yes some people drink koolaid and cling to past like Stan and some move forward technology and those that understand are attack by those that do not... Kinda like politics offer no facts and ignore reality and lay the BS on thick to cover ignorance of reality.  

John you really do have a problem.  You believe that if you like something that everyone else should like it and if they don't then something is wrong with them. Now that in itself is a common thing among many people I have met but what separates you is that even when faced with 98% of the people disagreeing with you and numerous links and hard data put in front of your face you still cling to the believe that your right and everyone else in the world is wrong!  Your not even open to letting people decide for themselves, it's your way or the person has made the wrong choice.

I also saw your post about your antenna and thought to myself well if this guy does not want to reap the benefits of having radials and wants to be stuck with a crappy antenna, it's his choice.  Unfortunately you get offended when thats bought up but in cases of people with their own equipment you  don't give people a choice even when they have better stuff than you.  And by that I am saying that if your really saying an iPad Air is inferior to your Windows RT or whatever device your using, that's just another case of how delusional you are.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KM3K on August 14, 2014, 07:41:28 PM
To Rick kk4ggl about OpenOffice and Libre...

I'll take a look at Libre very soon.

I prefer to work with the keyboard's short-cut keys rather than the mouse.
Also, "drag-and-drop" is a keen feature.
In both cases, OpenOffice did not always mimic Excel; for me that was an issue, especially "drag-and-drop".
My work-around was cut and paste; too much hassel for me for a simple operation.
In time, I could get used to OpenOffice but not having "drag-and-drop" is significant.

MS Office has a little known gem; the F4 key is a "repeat" key, which I find very useful; I could not find a similar feature in OpenOffice.

Just to post a few follow-up comments on what I had written a couple days ago (see excerpts above):
1. I started looking at Libre today; so far, in the limited testing done by this user, I don't notice any real difference; more testing is needed.
2. I mentioned two features that were important to me. I kept searching and have found them; not quite as clean to implement as MS-Office, but I suppose I could live with OpenOffice if it were not for our granddaughter's coming here to use the computer and MS-Office for homework.

Another ham suggested to me today Mint-Mate for Linux as a replacement for MS-Office.
I'm informed that, due to a smaller overhead, Linux runs faster than a MS-operating-system.
It'll be awhile before I can try that; I have an Elecraft-KX3 that I need to put together before the warranty expires.
73 Jerry KM3K
 


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K1CJS on August 15, 2014, 07:15:00 AM
You ought to really see some of the 'informational' posts made by 'JX.  Especially those on the kind of spark plug used by Harbor Freight generators, new cars and putting ham rigs in them--and especially the Honda generator vs. the Chinese knockoffs!  AAMOF, just look at any thread started by him, and you'll see that all he wants is to argue with someone.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 15, 2014, 01:00:33 PM
Yes I agree and for me arguing with him gets old real fast.  I can honestly say I have never met anybody like JX before.
How does a person learn anything if their mind is totally closed off to anything but their own conceived notions?


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K1CJS on August 16, 2014, 06:25:31 PM
Well, I've taken care of him and his baloney--the 'ignore' button does come in handy!


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KA5IPF on August 18, 2014, 06:14:30 AM
Ignore is great, now if I could just get everyone else to quit replying to him I wouldn't know he existed.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: W8JX on August 18, 2014, 09:17:16 AM
Yes I agree and for me arguing with him gets old real fast.  I can honestly say I have never met anybody like JX before.
How does a person learn anything if their mind is totally closed off to anything but their own conceived notions?

I would say you and a few others are the closed minded. You would follow the herd off a cliff. I use technology to make life easier. I use MS Office because it works well and same with outlook. IOS has always had very poor Office support. When my one daughter got her IPad she tried in vain to find a app in store to work with Office apps and even paid 20bucks for one that was not as promised. Android has better Office friendly apps and they are free and even blackberry had them. Unlike others I do not make things up but when my views do not follow those with narrow vision, they are quick to attack. Such attacks are a sign of insecurity. None of this is worth getting in a twist about but some fear what they do not understand and shoot first.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K5UNX on August 18, 2014, 09:34:42 AM
I would say you and a few others are the closed minded. You would follow the herd off a cliff. I use technology to make life easier. I use MS Office because it works well and same with outlook. IOS has always had very poor Office support. When my one daughter got her IPad she tried in vain to find a app in store to work with Office apps and even paid 20bucks for one that was not as promised. Android has better Office friendly apps and they are free and even blackberry had them. Unlike others I do not make things up but when my views do not follow those with narrow vision, they are quick to attack. Such attacks are a sign of insecurity. None of this is worth getting in a twist about but some fear what they do not understand and shoot first.

There are several apps that will work fine with Office docs for the iPad. I have Pages, Google Docs. There is another app, dont recall the name but it runs a "virtualized" instance of office. Bottom line you can work with Office on an iPad.

Also, I think the dependence on MS Office formats is going down. Several governments and municipalities are adopting the open document format. I think this trend will continue and "Office" type docs won't lock people into certain software someday.



Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 18, 2014, 03:15:32 PM
.docx another microsoft screwup.
That caused more problems for office users during the first year it was introduced that it permanently turned many people away from office and pushed them towards open office


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K1CJS on August 18, 2014, 04:22:45 PM
Well, .docx may have come from Microsoft--or somewhere else--but it's become the standard now.  Just have to suffer with it, or change the default on your document program to the old standard--.doc.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K5UNX on August 19, 2014, 07:10:08 AM
Well, .docx may have come from Microsoft--or somewhere else--but it's become the standard now.  Just have to suffer with it, or change the default on your document program to the old standard--.doc.

The standard, only if you rely on MS Office . . .


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 19, 2014, 04:44:09 PM
Well, .docx may have come from Microsoft--or somewhere else--but it's become the standard now.  Just have to suffer with it, or change the default on your document program to the old standard--.doc.

The standard, only if you rely on MS Office . . .

Exactly!   Most Document attachments I get are still in the Doc format.  Simple reason is that anybody can open it, while with Docx you have to have a newer version of office or a patch installed in office 2003.

I still use office 2003 and find it to be so much better than 2010 which has all these convoluted menus that are counter intuitive.   MS is always mistaking change for innovation and not realizing that sometimes you got the GUI right the first time around so don't mess with it.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: AA4PB on August 19, 2014, 05:03:48 PM
"MS is always mistaking change for innovation and not realizing that sometimes you got the GUI right the first time around so don't mess with it."

That seems to be a fairly common issue. Programmers making changes just because they can - and not realizing how much the new learning curve affects users.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K1CJS on August 19, 2014, 05:49:59 PM
The standard, only if you rely on MS Office . . .

Exactly!   Most Document attachments I get are still in the Doc format.  Simple reason is that anybody can open it, while with Docx you have to have a newer version of office or a patch installed in office 2003.

I still use office 2003 and find it to be so much better than 2010 which has all these convoluted menus that are counter intuitive.   MS is always mistaking change for innovation and not realizing that sometimes you got the GUI right the first time around so don't mess with it.


I agree that Office 2003 is a lot less troublesome, but I stand by the idea that .docx is now an accepted standard.  So MS Office 2010 defaults to it.  It also has provisions to change the format to other standards, just as other office programs have the provisions to accept .docx.  Open Office does, and so do other word processing programs.  That's because it has lately become a standard, due to Microsoft--probably, but still a standard.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: SWL2002 on August 20, 2014, 04:43:24 PM
You old farts are so set in your ways.  I am surprised you still are not using an abacus or slide rule.   ::)


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: G8YMW on August 21, 2014, 01:41:29 PM
Funny you should say that...


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 21, 2014, 03:53:32 PM
You old farts are so set in your ways.  I am surprised you still are not using an abacus or slide rule.   ::)


I am not sure if your Joking or not, but I use a boat load of very complicated software to do a variety of things.
As I said earlier, right now i am working on a project in which I have to be using Photoshop, Abode Dreamweaver CC, Adobe Flash CC, Omniview8 and Altium Designer.   Luckily I already know how to use three of them very well, but learning the other two is time consuming.

What I have noticed over the years is that you have real software innovators like Altium and even adobe and then you have fakes like Microsoft.


A fake just changes up the GUI to make a new version and then calls it Win8 when really under the hood its almost the same thing as Win7.  A real innovator understands that the customer needs to deploy the software in a fast manor and has no time to retrain dozens of employee's.   So in response the software engineers keep the GUI familiar and they add into it the new features and improvements.   Sometimes these improvements are very subtle but they are often times the things that made you pull out your hair with the older version because it just could not do that task.

My real gripe is that an OS is just a container for my programs, I don't want someone to keep messing with the Lid on my container, I just want to open it and get to my stuff with no hassles.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: KD8MJR on August 21, 2014, 04:18:50 PM
Well, I've taken care of him and his baloney--the 'ignore' button does come in handy!

I save my Ignore button for people who are rude.  W8JX is an OK guy, he is never rude or insulting but he's just so stubborn and inflexible that it kind of gets to me.  I use to be like that to some extent and then as I got into more and more areas of interest I realized how little I really knew and as I get older I have learned to keep my mind open to what other people are saying and to investigate for myself and see if what they are saying is right and what I thought I knew is wrong before I make any statements.


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: SWL2002 on August 22, 2014, 04:09:22 AM
You old farts are so set in your ways.  I am surprised you still are not using an abacus or slide rule.   ::)


I am not sure if your Joking or not...

Well, at least someone kind of gets it.  ;D


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: G8YMW on August 22, 2014, 05:17:08 AM
At least my slide rule works every time :P


Title: RE: new computer: should I have gotten Win8 rather than Win7?
Post by: K1CJS on August 30, 2014, 03:48:45 PM
You old farts are so set in your ways.  I am surprised you still are not using an abacus or slide rule.   ::)


Both my abacus and my slide rule come up on my computer screen!