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Author Topic: 20 Amp shack  (Read 44068 times)
NI8R
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Posts: 323




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« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2014, 07:31:22 AM »

The sdr will hold the amp ground in key down mode for 300ms during qsos, to keep from hot keying the relays.
The amp has additional hang time post that.  I am far from a novice so this has become  a source
of contention with me. I am not a contester. But 98% of my qsos are with dxers and contesters.
they run equipment suited for fast exchanges.

Greg kc8iir
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W1VT
Member

Posts: 3355




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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2014, 08:16:27 AM »

http://www.ad5x.com/images/Presentations/QSKals500als600RevA.pdf
A typical delay for a non-SDR rig is under 30 ms.

A QSK amplifier is designed to switch fast enough so folks can interrupt your 20 or 30 wpm CW. You can hear them while you are still sending.  Phil modified the amp to switch in a few ms.  As a CW operator with 293 countries, I find it useful.  Given a choice, I'd rather have a legal limit auto-tune amp instead of a kW amp with QSK for breaking pileups.

Most stations don't interrupt their sending when the DX station replies to someone, even though that would be the ideal practice.

Zack W1VT
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 08:23:32 AM by W1VT » Logged
N3QE
Member

Posts: 5587




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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2014, 08:41:23 AM »

The sdr will hold the amp ground in key down mode for 300ms during qsos, to keep from hot keying the relays.
The amp has additional hang time post that.  I am far from a novice so this has become  a source
of contention with me. I am not a contester. But 98% of my qsos are with dxers and contesters.
they run equipment suited for fast exchanges.

I honestly don't believe that any modern rig needs that long to turn T/R around. I know some of the SDR stuff was so point-and-drool that multiple PC mouse clicks were used to coordinante T/R switching but there has to be a better way.
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N3QE
Member

Posts: 5587




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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2014, 08:44:27 AM »

Most stations don't interrupt their sending when the DX station replies to someone, even though that would be the ideal practice.

I will agree there are obnoxious stations in DX pileups that have absolutely no freaking idea what phase the DX QSO is in and are just continuously sending their callsigns. They are really beyond the pale obnoxious but I would not describe them as "most".

Many of us have done clever things with receive-only antennas so a QSK rig has some receive ability while the amp is still keyed, and without relay clacking.

I have also used full-on-vacuum-relay QSK amps, as well as working in a multi-multi where every second there are many loud relay clacks in the room as amps switch and antennas transfer between run and S&P radios, and it is honestly surprising how quickly my ears completely suppress the relay clacks no matter how loud they are. Still my family would object to the relay clacks at home at EU sunrise!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 08:48:34 AM by N3QE » Logged
AA4HA
Member

Posts: 2630




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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2014, 01:34:15 PM »

The sdr will hold the amp ground in key down mode for 300ms during qsos, to keep from hot keying the relays.
The amp has additional hang time post that.  I am far from a novice so this has become  a source
of contention with me. I am not a contester. But 98% of my qsos are with dxers and contesters.
they run equipment suited for fast exchanges.
I honestly don't believe that any modern rig needs that long to turn T/R around. I know some of the SDR stuff was so point-and-drool that multiple PC mouse clicks were used to coordinante T/R switching but there has to be a better way.
I agree, 300 mSec is really too long, 30 mSec is closer to reality, most transmitters completely drop the carrier in less than 10-15 mSec. Using 30 mSec is a nice little safety margin, 300 mSec is kind of over the top.

If you have a dual channel storage oscilloscope why don't you set one channel to trigger on the PTT going away and look at how long the TX carrier goes away and how long before the amp goes completely to zero power. You can use just a little inductive loop on the scope probe for a pick-up of the RF. If you have a dual channel with an external trigger channel you can watch both events.. it will be very educational.

If you flip it around the other way, for PTT key, you can also see how long it takes for the transmitter to come up to full power. Another thing I have looked at before is how long it takes for the receiver to fully engage and lock onto a received carrier from when the PTT is dropped (RX attack time).

If you ever decide to work high speed digital modes it really helps if you know what those numbers are.
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Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
Lookout Mountain, Alabama
AA4HA
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Posts: 2630




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« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2014, 01:44:37 PM »

I assume y'all are dealing with places where you are living under the constraints of building codes or even a requirement for a licensed electrician. I live in a rural area where there are no such prohibitions and I have worked around industrial electrical systems for about 30 years. What I did was to put in a 240 V, 50A breaker into my 200A panel and ran a #6 AWG drop into the shack. Then there is a small sub-panel with eight breakers just for the radio room. It allows me to completely isolate that system by either flipping the main breaker in the sub-panel or the 50A breaker in the main panel.
I only use a 500 watt amp (sometimes). Usually I run barefoot at 125 watts but the UPS (6KVA) that is part of the setup does not even beep due to a low voltage condition in the room.
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Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
Lookout Mountain, Alabama
KD0UN
Member

Posts: 97




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« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2014, 01:55:24 PM »

What AA4HA said.   What I did was run a tap from my nearby water heater to a breaker box with 15 amp 220 breaker.   Feed this to my amp.   Henry 2K-4

I do have a an Al-811 that I have on the same circuit as most of the transceivers, and seems to work fine.
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W8JX
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Posts: 13268




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« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2014, 02:19:49 PM »

What AA4HA said.   What I did was run a tap from my nearby water heater to a breaker box with 15 amp 220 breaker.   Feed this to my amp.   Henry 2K-4

I do have a an Al-811 that I have on the same circuit as most of the transceivers, and seems to work fine.

I am surprised you have not blown breaker on water heater. Those circuits are usually 30 amps and water heater usually draws 4500watts/ 20 amps.
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--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 15046




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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2014, 03:18:32 PM »

I assume y'all are dealing with places where you are living under the constraints of building codes or even a requirement for a licensed electrician. I live in a rural area where there are no such prohibitions.....

Wow, I didn't realize there were still places inside the U.S. that had no building codes. I've lived in some pretty rural places but there were always minimal building codes and they followed the National Electrical Code. While you could do electrical work on your own house, it still required an inspection and you couldn't legally do work on someone else's property without having an electrical license.
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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
W8JX
Member

Posts: 13268




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« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2014, 03:51:59 PM »

While you could do electrical work on your own house, it still required an inspection

Not really. It may have to pass inspection when you sell house but even then that is a bit grey at times on minor work such as adding circuits. Now if you replace main panel or feed you will need a inspection.

and you couldn't legally do work on someone else's property without having an electrical license.

Yes, you cannot legally do work for hire without a license or under the wing of someone with a license.   
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--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 15046




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« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2014, 04:27:21 PM »

Well, where I was if the electrical work required a permit then it required an inspection, even if you were doing your own work. You, or a licensed electrician, could replace an outlet without a permit but adding additional branch circuits or wiring a previously unfinished space like an attic or a basement required a permit. That's not saying that plenty of people didn't bother with permits and got away with it. I was aware of it because I was working week ends helping to wire new homes for the local electrical inspector.

My own new house was an example of why lax building codes are not so good. This builder was making 10-foot high decks using untreated pine. He gave them a quick coat of stain and they looked really good on closing day. A little over a year later the 2x4 decking and support structure was rotted to the point that it was dangerous and had to be totally replaced. No flashing above the door frames so water got in behind the frame and rotted the wood. No termite treatment so termites moved into the wet wood at the base of the door frames. Rather discouraging after living in a new home for about 3 years.
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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
AA4HA
Member

Posts: 2630




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« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2014, 04:39:24 PM »

My own new house was an example of why lax building codes are not so good. This builder was making 10-foot high decks using untreated pine. He gave them a quick coat of stain and they looked really good on closing day. A little over a year later the 2x4 decking and support structure was rotted to the point that it was dangerous and had to be totally replaced. No flashing above the door frames so water got in behind the frame and rotted the wood. No termite treatment so termites moved into the wet wood at the base of the door frames. Rather discouraging after living in a new home for about 3 years.
I had a builder doing my home using approved drawings but every day I showed up after work and looked at everything. I bought a building codes inspector book and went through all of the stuff, from how many studs were in the walls, to how they pulled in wiring and plumbing. They were not happy about the situation but I held them to the letter of the codes.
I had extra things done, hurricane straps on roof joists even though they are required in my part of the country, fiberglass insulation on inside walls for soundproofing, tyvekk house wrap , proper grouting on anchor bolts.
Since the foundation was set about a month before the lumber was delivered I water sealed the foundation, inside and out, with that black asphalt stuff, then went over that with white sealer. On top of the cinderblock I went in with aluminum flashing to create a break for termites and moisture. When the floors were in and the walls were framed it ended up over a weekend. I applied 20 gallons of Thompsons water seal to all of the inside floors, stairs and even onto the bottom edges of the walls. I put that down with a mop and it was making puddles everywhere. I hired a local guy to pull Cat 5e Ethernet, coaxial cable, shielded audio and multimode fiber optic all throughout the house and terminated in non metallic boxes.

I never had a chance before to be there when my house was built and I took advantage of every moment before the sheet rock went up, the shingles went down and the siding was applied. The construction foreman will never send me a birthday card, in fact I am sure that he hated me but it was my money that was paying for the house.
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Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
Lookout Mountain, Alabama
NI8R
Member

Posts: 323




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« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2014, 05:14:43 PM »

I have a finished basement. The house is 100 ft wide. I would have to track through 65 ft of finished space To get the circuit there. I had an electrician install the conduit path for my current antennas because the house has a lot of arctectural design. It's a pain in the as*. He said it would be a mess. The money is not the issue,  it's drywall and painting.

Greg
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N3QE
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Posts: 5587




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« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2014, 05:39:52 PM »

I have a finished basement. The house is 100 ft wide. I would have to track through 65 ft of finished space To get the circuit there. I had an electrician install the conduit path for my current antennas because the house has a lot of arctectural design. It's a pain in the as*. He said it would be a mess. The money is not the issue,  it's drywall and painting.

OK then, any electrician can convert your 20A 120V shack circuit into a 20A 240V circuit with no need to rip into the drywall because it just uses the existing wires. The work is a two-pole breaker in the breaker box, tagging the wires ends with the right color tape, replacing the outlets and cords in the shack. Many modern accessories and computer doo-dads will run at 240V just fine, others might need series vs parallel transformer primary strapping, and a few you might have to toss out and replace.
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NI8R
Member

Posts: 323




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« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2014, 05:44:36 PM »

I might do that, the light fixture in the ceiling is the only thing left to figure out.

Greg
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