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Author Topic: Has anyone used the W7RY QSK board?  (Read 25122 times)
N8CBX
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Posts: 565




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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2015, 01:48:38 PM »

Can you explain how W8ZR's sequencer works using an LED driver (?) chip?

Also, W8ZR's sequence of engagement (turn on) seems out of sequence order. He says, "...the QSK circuitry closes the output relay, bias switch, and the input relay in that order, allowing for relay closing times and contact bounce."
Usually, bias is switched last; And the first to drop coming out of TX.

Can you explain why he complicates his design? This can all be done with a few components and a PIC processor.

Also, don't need a $10 DC-DC convertor. A voltage doubler can be made with a diode bridge and two capacitors to make the high relay voltage (W7RY's)
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Dayton Ohio - The Birthplace of Aviation
AD9DX
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2015, 06:42:03 PM »

I've purchased and built the board, which was quite easy and straightforward...

My big issue now is that W7RY has not had his reed relay in stock yet.  Does anyone have specs on it, I'd like to install this thing and get it working.
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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
N3DT
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2015, 07:47:59 PM »

Out of curiosity, is this W7RY board that much better than the MFJ QSK board? I have the MFJ one in my AL80B and it works fine. It's certainly not $20 though. but it was easy enough to implement in the amp and I understand it's good up to 1KW with decent SWR.  Is it just a matter of price or PO? No vacuum relays either. It also makes the AL80B much quieter, no relay clacking except when you press the OPR and that's just once a session.

Maybe I'm missing something here or out of the loop?
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W9GB
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2015, 01:12:17 PM »

Quote from: N8CBX
Can you explain why he complicates his design?
This can all be done with a few components and a PIC processor.
Jan -

If Jim, W8ZR was not at Dayton Hamvention (in your backyard this weekend),
I have heard that the telephone is a great communications device to answer the question -- from designer himself.
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N8CBX
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2015, 01:45:56 PM »

Yeah, just returned from Hara, I saw his boards for sale at the Harbach booth, didn't see him though.
Jan
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Dayton Ohio - The Birthplace of Aviation
AH6RR
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2015, 02:44:13 PM »

I've purchased and built the board, which was quite easy and straightforward...

My big issue now is that W7RY has not had his reed relay in stock yet.  Does anyone have specs on it, I'd like to install this thing and get it working.

Simple just get another vacuum relay and use that. That's what I did.
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2015, 09:01:39 PM »

I've purchased and built the board, which was quite easy and straightforward...

My big issue now is that W7RY has not had his reed relay in stock yet.  Does anyone have specs on it, I'd like to install this thing and get it working.
W7RY used a Matsushita pn NR-HD-12V relay. The datasheet is here: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmain/Datasheets-6/DSA-104523.pdf

It shows the relay has 1 Form C (SPDT) contacts and the coil is rated 12V (890 ohms). Typical operate time including bounce time is just under 1ms. Using the parametric search engine at Digi-Key, you may be able to substitute a Coto Technology pn 2341-12-000. Coil resistance is a touch higher, and operate time is about 500 ns. Contacts are rated 200V @ 0.5A switching current (1.5A holding current).

vy 73,
Bryan WA7PRC
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AH7I
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« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2015, 05:57:27 AM »

I have the stand alone version of the MFJ. The QSK-5. It's not a good product for clumsy hams. High voltage will destroy the PIN diodes. Accidentally change antenna or band and it may suddenly need parts.
73, Bob ah7i/w4
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KC7JK
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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2016, 12:09:19 PM »

Hello , ive run my L4b 17 years,rebuilt ps new relay and soft key...recently K7htk Gary installed w7ry qsk board and new input board in another L4b for me and it is very amazing how quiet and fast switching it is it literally makes it a major better amp......two thumbs up for W7ry Jim 
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N4ZAW
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2017, 09:58:56 PM »

It's the way to go. But as previously mentioned, documentation is somewhat lacking.. In particular, the bias circuit retrofitting instructions and adjustment. All of that can be found online, however,  if you dig deep enough.  This 'vague docs' issue may actually be intentional because the instructions will vary somewhat from installing it into a stock sb220, as opposed to those amps that have been "Harbached-out". Trust me on that one, as I initially found it 'challenging' to say the least!
Your 'saving grace' will be the forethought Jim placed in the board's overall design. After careful, thorough study, it begins to make sense. It helps to have those above-posted links to builds from other hams like Brad, KV5V's work as others have linked to above. Though, Brad does show both bias schemes on the schematic he has on that link.. Yee-yeah -- Maybe I should send him an email so he can correct it. This was personally where my initial installation confusion began, but his illustrations were iimmensely helpful overall.

 The RM-220 metering board is a nice addition, and they also tried to adhere to the pin-lettering scheme found on the original Heathkit metering board. If you want to do both mods, it's best to do them at the same time. Harbach has three different revisions of the RM220, but they all 'jive' pin-for-pin install-wise,                            and the bias diode array can be omitted -- just leave those diodes out. I'm thinking about moving the bias control so I can access it better outside of the amp by mounting a 10K,10-turn Wire Wound Precision Pot on the faceplate . Sure, it can be done, but I don't know whether the additional lead length would introduce some 'nasties' to the RF product.  It's supposed to be 'set-n-forget', but we really have some insanely-unstable voltage from the local grid around here -- especially in the 'monsoon' season.
I have an L4B I'm thinking about adding this board to for that reason alone. It would sure add hours (if not years) to the tubes.
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2017, 10:18:36 PM »

It's the way to go. But as previously mentioned, documentation is somewhat lacking.. In particular, the bias circuit retrofitting instructions and adjustment. All of that can be found online, however,  if you dig deep enough.  This 'vague docs' issue may actually be intentional because the instructions will vary somewhat from installing it into a stock sb220, as opposed to those amps that have been "Harbached-out". Trust me on that one, as I initially found it 'challenging' to say the least!
Your 'saving grace' will be the forethought Jim placed in the board's overall design. After careful, thorough study, it begins to make sense. It helps to have those above-posted links to builds from other hams like Brad, KV5V's work as others have linked to above. Though, Brad does show both bias schemes on the schematic he has on that link.. Yee-yeah -- Maybe I should send him an email so he can correct it. This was personally where my initial installation confusion began, but his illustrations were iimmensely helpful overall.

 The RM-220 metering board is a nice addition, and they also tried to adhere to the pin-lettering scheme found on the original Heathkit metering board. If you want to do both mods, it's best to do them at the same time. Harbach has three different revisions of the RM220, but they all 'jive' pin-for-pin install-wise,                            and the bias diode array can be omitted -- just leave those diodes out. I'm thinking about moving the bias control so I can access it better outside of the amp by mounting a 10K,10-turn Wire Wound Precision Pot on the faceplate . Sure, it can be done, but I don't know whether the additional lead length would introduce some 'nasties' to the RF product.  It's supposed to be 'set-n-forget', but we really have some insanely-unstable voltage from the local grid around here -- especially in the 'monsoon' season.
I have an L4B I'm thinking about adding this board to for that reason alone. It would sure add hours (if not years) to the tubes.

Documentation of the W7RY unit that the OP asked about is detailed. Mine works FB. No Harbach stuff is needed.
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W1QJ
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2017, 03:38:36 AM »

Due to a cancellation of the installation of Jim's system in an SB-220 unit, I now have a newly built board with all parts on it ready to go and a brand new Vacuum relay.  Only thing needed is the reed relay for the input.  Would like to find a new home for this.  Have installation documents also.  A pictorial shows what goes where and seems simple enough to do.  All the leg work of getting parts and building the board has been done, what a time saver.  Get the reed relay from Jim and install.  If interested contact me at gudguyham@aol.com   BTW..I did have a unit come in that had Jim's board already installed, it works quite well.
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N4ZAW
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2017, 05:09:51 AM »

Documentation of the W7RY unit that the OP asked about is detailed.
As long as you're doing the mod to an all-original box, yes, chances are good that you won't run into any difficulties with this upgrade -- IF you've ever attempted to adjust the bias current on one.... Not that this would be remotely possible on a stock box.

As for myself, I ran into problems with that procedure after trying to figure out the separate tube bias scheme approaches between the stock (huge zener), W7RY's adjustable bias, and Harbach's multi-diode array found on their RM-220 boards. These presented me with several challenges when confronted with all of them for the first time in my life.. Now, Granted, I'm fairly 'challenged' on my own accord.  
Quote
Mine works FB. No Harbach stuff is needed.
Very true, however, Neither is Jim's QSK board "needed" -- but it sure is sweet in operation!
The Harbach RM220 metering boards offer increased component protection, along with a fixed bias scheme which could, in-turn, render Jim's QSK board 'not needed', couldn't it? They are, after all, redundant in assuming the bias function.
Harbach's SS220, Soft-start module IMHO, is worth it's weight in filter caps, and cheap enough to include while performing the QSK mod. Speakin of 'filter caps' -- they don't last forever. And the Harbach folks can help one out there also. As for my amp, it received all of the above, even though it worked perfectly fine before I got my paws inside of it... I even replaced the tubes with brand new ones. Did it 'need' ANY of these improvements? I can't say for sure, as I bought it used. Perhaps I was the one who needed some modification for going there in the first place... Maybe I just needed to know how many hours were on the tubes, and how old those capacitors were. Now I do, and learned some things in the bargain.
 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 05:26:35 AM by N4ZAW » Logged
WA7PRC
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2017, 03:19:38 PM »

Documentation of the W7RY unit that the OP asked about is detailed.
As long as you're doing the mod to an all-original box, yes, chances are good that you won't run into any difficulties with this upgrade -- IF you've ever attempted to adjust the bias current on one.... Not that this would be remotely possible on a stock box.

As for myself, I ran into problems with that procedure after trying to figure out the separate tube bias scheme approaches between the stock (huge zener), W7RY's adjustable bias, and Harbach's multi-diode array found on their RM-220 boards. These presented me with several challenges when confronted with all of them for the first time in my life.. Now, Granted, I'm fairly 'challenged' on my own accord.
 
I found it easy to understand. YMMV.

Mine works FB. No Harbach stuff is needed.
Very true, however, Neither is Jim's QSK board "needed" -- but it sure is sweet in operation!
The Harbach RM220 metering boards offer increased component protection, along with a fixed bias scheme which could, in-turn, render Jim's QSK board 'not needed', couldn't it? They are, after all, redundant in assuming the bias function.
Harbach's SS220, Soft-start module IMHO, is worth it's weight in filter caps, and cheap enough to include while performing the QSK mod. Speakin of 'filter caps' -- they don't last forever. And the Harbach folks can help one out there also. As for my amp, it received all of the above, even though it worked perfectly fine before I got my paws inside of it... I even replaced the tubes with brand new ones. Did it 'need' ANY of these improvements? I can't say for sure, as I bought it used. Perhaps I was the one who needed some modification for going there in the first place... Maybe I just needed to know how many hours were on the tubes, and how old those capacitors were. Now I do, and learned some things in the bargain.
The W7RY setup drives FAST vacuum/reed relays that eliminate hot switching and the contacts will never intermit due to oxidation. The Harbach relay driver doesn't... you're stuck with SLOW open-frame relays that hot-switch and eventually intermit due to oxidized NC contacts.

The operating bias provided by stacked diodes is sensitive to temperature and current. The current regulator used by W7RY isn't. The W7RY unit also switches between operating bias and cutoff bias electronically (no relay contacts). The operating bias doesn't wander.

Most of the Harbach offerings are OK, if more costly than needed:
The OEM SB-220 rectifier board can be used as-is, with the replacement of better rectifiers and HV meter multiplier resistors. 1N5408 rectifiers run about two bits each. 4M7/±5%/1W/10KV HV multiplier resistors (Vishay #VR68000004704JAC00) run about 6 bits each. Add a -B clamp rectifier for another four bits (Diodes Inc #6A10-T), and you're done with that PCB.

If you don't go nutz with HV filter capacitor capacitance and step up to better HV rectifiers above, a step-start circuit is mostly pointless. 270uF/450V CDE #381LR271M450A032 capacitors cost about $6 each. 100K/3W/750V bleeder/equalizer resistors (Vishay #PR03000201003JAC00) run about four bits each.

All of the above rectifier/meter board and capacitor changes run no more than about $60 and is super simple to implement.
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N4ZAW
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« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2017, 01:59:26 PM »

OK. Yeah, i'll probably hold-off on the L4B upgrades...  Grin
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