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Author Topic: Why can't you buy an hf amp in the USA running more than the legal limit?  (Read 25470 times)
KD8MJR
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Posts: 5557




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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2015, 08:32:22 PM »

You need to consider the antennas used by hams today.  Most new hams want an antenna that work on all bands.  It is surprisingly hard to come up with a good all band compromise that will take the legal limit without blowing something up.

Bottom line--you can't sell a box that someone can just plug into their station to become "really, really loud."  

It is a waste of time trying to educate your customers who are always right.

Zack W1VT

Well you can buy a Steppir and have a great antenna that can do legal limit on all bands but that's expensive.

Also for once I agree with SWL2002!   It only makes sense to go 6kw and above if your trying to make a difference versus 1.5kw and IMHO that's insane.

73s
Rob
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
W1BR
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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2015, 08:44:47 PM »

I run log periodic antennas on all bands from 14 MHz through 1296 MHz.   KMA HF log, and a pair of KMA logs both horizontal and vertically polarized for VHF/UHF.  Work good enough--and simple.
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KM3F
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Posts: 910




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« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2015, 11:05:00 PM »

For those with the 400 watt limit; an AL80B rated at 1 kw has a power supply option built in to run 400 watts. Would you call that an export amplifier?
The amplifiers themselves are not the issue, it's the user.
A Ham licenses is an agreement to abide by the rules. This covers all augments you can try to make.
Ignorance of the laws is no excuse.
Good luck..
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2015, 01:10:36 AM »

At 5kW out, you must need a fairly substantial 240 volt line - around 45 to 50 amps or so, depending on efficiency and power factor. I suspect few amps of that size will be single phase as stock, either.

How hard is it to get a 3 phase supply to a non-industrial property in the US?
In the RF Lab of the world's largest OEM of sealed CO2 Lasers, we typically used 208 3-phase for anything above the kilowatt level. These RF sources were also running in Class E, to counteract the awful efficiency of the Laser tubes. The largest I dealt with was three 4KW sources in the same rack. Each source used three 30V/67A supplies in parallel.

If three phase exists at the street, you can have it pushed thru to your residence... at a cost. In my estimation, that's not economically viable for the average ham.
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SWL2002
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« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2015, 03:52:43 AM »

At 5kW out, you must need a fairly substantial 240 volt line - around 45 to 50 amps or so, depending on efficiency and power factor. I suspect few amps of that size will be single phase as stock, either.

How hard is it to get a 3 phase supply to a non-industrial property in the US?

200 A single phase service is no problem to get.  Most new construction has at least 200 A service.  Modern larger homes with heat pumps generally require 400 A single phase service, which is also generally available.  

Three phase is generally not available for residential service.

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W3RSW
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« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2015, 12:02:30 PM »

Depending on your local utility you can order a full installation three phase line from the nearest available point than can service your needs. You'll probably need a demand account. If it must be a business, set up am LLC,  Grin but be prepared to insure the demand will be sufficient to justify the line extension, poles, breakers, transformers and phase capacitors required. R/w with all the legal ramifications may or may not be covered in the utility's cost. Demand service usually entails 24/7 usage. You get a break if the service can take outages.  If not , beaucoup dollars.

A neighbor or two may want considerable R/W compensation for a line to be run to you. ...along with a myriad of reasons why you would want to stay with at most a 400 amp domestic service.  Grin

As others have noted, doesn't take much to stray from Amateur Radio service.

Try "Shark Tank."  Grin
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Rick, W3RSW
G3RZP
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« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2015, 01:58:27 PM »

I shudder to think how much the 1/4 mile of line needed to give me 3 phase would cost! I have 2 of the 3 phases (plus neutral) on the pole in the garden - common in rural areas here - but get my 3 phase for the lathe and mill from a variable frequency inverter run of one phase. We have a 100 Amp supply that is 239 volts unless there's a fault....
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WB4M
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« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2015, 03:28:39 PM »

I own an Amp Supply LK800-NT that uses three 3CX800A7 tubes.  It will easily run more than legal limit, if that is what you want to do.  Anyone can buy it too, lol.
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KM1H
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Posts: 5559




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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2015, 03:45:19 PM »

Quote
At 5kW out, you must need a fairly substantial 240 volt line - around 45 to 50 amps or so, depending on efficiency and power factor. I suspect few amps of that size will be single phase as stock, either.

Service to the house is 200A (typical modern residential service) and I use a 60A breaker to feed the amp service bench. I work on lots of LK-800's and other big amps on single phase.

Quote
How hard is it to get a 3 phase supply to a non-industrial property in the US?

Easy if it passes your property, impossible otherwise unless you want to pay the big bucks to have it run; Im 2.5 miles away.....all uphill

Quote
To carry this absurdity to a higher level.........The most powerful tube that I am aware of that can be run in simple grounded grid configuration is the 3CX20,000A7. There may be others.

I have a 3CW20000A7 complete with socket, filament transformer and its blower that has never had HV applied. It was a tech college fixture to study water cooling that was surplused when the course changed.
Im waiting for the right offer Grin

Quote
Contesters and DXers will pay whatever it costs to be number one.
To me, it's a mindless persuit.

Its the mindless that would make such a statement

Quote
Why a super high output amp. When you can use ERP (effective radiated power). A good multi element beam with 10 db. gain will give your amp of legal power the ERP of 15KW. Want more then stack two of them for an ERP of 30KW. Want even more then co-phase a 4 bay stack for 60 KW ERP. The beam will be narrow, but the overall gain will be in both directions. Receive as well as transmit, and you will be legal.

73s

K2OWK

During my serious contesting days I ran homebrew 4/4/4/4 on 10-20 and 4/4 KLM on 40, live on a NH hilltop with lots of acreage and all it ever took is a LK-500ZC at 1200W to set records, numerous 1 and 2nd place, etc. All antennas were rotatable and multiple phasing combinations could be selected. Not everyone has the ability to do all that so feel they have to run super QRO to compete; I spent very little money since Im handy around mechanical stuff and have the equipment.

When I won the first all band ARRL DX contest several YCCC members descended on my home demanding to see the station, when the saw it they about s..t their pants but considering they were all checkbook hams that had others do the hard work it came as no surprise to me.

Getting 10dbi from a single yagi only takes a long 4 el and getting 10dBd means almost doubling the boom length; on 20M my 4 el was 40' long which was more than enough wind loading since I only used hamfest TailTwisters and HAM-3's depending upon height and rebuilt myself including the rotating arms.

Quote
I own an Amp Supply LK800-NT that uses three 3CX800A7 tubes.  It will easily run more than legal limit, if that is what you want to do.  Anyone can buy it too, lol.

Thats not my idea of a good amp for much beyond where they are pretuned at. Ive converted dozens to full tune amps for contesters and all mode DXers

Quote
To really make any noticeable difference, you'd have to step from 1.5 kW up to 6 kW.  Is the extra strain and heat worth it to run your 1500 W amp at 2500 W.  Not really

Those who dont understand the subject continue blabbering about things they know nothing about. 

Carl
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N2SR
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Posts: 1208




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« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2015, 02:52:49 AM »

Contesters and DXers will pay whatever it costs to be number one.
To me, it's a mindless persuit.

You know this for a fact, or are you just pulling words out of your ass?

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If no one is doing it that way, there is a probably a very good reason.
W8JX
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Posts: 13268




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« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2015, 04:12:57 AM »

Contesters and DXers will pay whatever it costs to be number one.
To me, it's a mindless persuit.

You know this for a fact, or are you just pulling words out of your ass?


Some modern day CB hams would run 10kw if they can afford it. SOme have to have the best money can buy just so they can say they have it.
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--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
SWL2002
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Posts: 895




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« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2015, 04:57:44 AM »


Quote
To really make any noticeable difference, you'd have to step from 1.5 kW up to 6 kW.  Is the extra strain and heat worth it to run your 1500 W amp at 2500 W.  Not really

Those who dont understand the subject continue blabbering about things they know nothing about. 

Carl

Hmm, looking over your post above, the only one who seems to be "blabbering" is you.   Of course, since you consider yourself as a supposed "expert", you do not see it as blabbering.  From my perspective, it is just windbag boasting from a boring old blowhard.  You know, like those you encounter almost everyday on certain parts of 80 and 40 meters...

Well, let's see where you disagree with what I have said.  Do you think it is a good idea to run an amp on the Ham Bands past the legal 1500 watt limit?  Is the large difference in cost justifiable just to gain 1 calibrated S unit in going from 1500 watts to 6000 watts output - especially since you can only legally run 1500 watts on the Ham bands?   Seems a lot of this old windbag boasting is just a "mine is bigger than yours" type of thing.  Looking at your posing history, you seem to engage in that type of thing a lot.  YAWN...

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KM1H
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Posts: 5559




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« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2015, 02:06:03 PM »

Quote
Well, let's see where you disagree with what I have said.  Do you think it is a good idea to run an amp on the Ham Bands past the legal 1500 watt limit?  Is the large difference in cost justifiable just to gain 1 calibrated S unit in going from 1500 watts to 6000 watts output - especially since you can only legally run 1500 watts on the Ham bands?

Im not here to play a rules cop nor do I want to tell a ham in countries that have a higher power limit what to do.
Who said anything about going to 6KW? You cant even stay on track.

But for any serious DXer, weak signal VHF and up operator, crowded band ragchews, etc, the added 2.2dB gain of your original post can apply to 150 vs 250W or any other similar ratio and be the difference between a QSO and a big zero or aggravation. I suspect you arent aware of much beyond the CB world anyway since you refuse to list a ham call.

Quote
Seems a lot of this old windbag boasting is just a "mine is bigger than yours" type of thing.  Looking at your posing history, you seem to engage in that type of thing a lot.

Gee, you can read so you know I enjoy deflating the poseurs and a few outright frauds that often show up on forums. You are now included on my list.
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KD8MJR
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Posts: 5557




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« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2015, 03:25:28 PM »

Quote
Well, let's see where you disagree with what I have said.  Do you think it is a good idea to run an amp on the Ham Bands past the legal 1500 watt limit?  Is the large difference in cost justifiable just to gain 1 calibrated S unit in going from 1500 watts to 6000 watts output - especially since you can only legally run 1500 watts on the Ham bands?

Im not here to play a rules cop nor do I want to tell a ham in countries that have a higher power limit what to do.
Who said anything about going to 6KW? You cant even stay on track.

But for any serious DXer, weak signal VHF and up operator, crowded band ragchews, etc, the added 2.2dB gain of your original post can apply to 150 vs 250W or any other similar ratio and be the difference between a QSO and a big zero or aggravation. I suspect you arent aware of much beyond the CB world anyway since you refuse to list a ham call.

Quote
Seems a lot of this old windbag boasting is just a "mine is bigger than yours" type of thing.  Looking at your posing history, you seem to engage in that type of thing a lot.

Gee, you can read so you know I enjoy deflating the poseurs and a few outright frauds that often show up on forums. You are now included on my list.

Carl I seriously would not waste my time on SWL2002.  His main reason for being on eHam is to annoy and taunt ham operators and then go back to CBTricks and have some fun, he seems to be a lonely individual with nothing better to do.

 He will respond by saying that he only does this with Hams that are pompous and incorrect.  Problem is that SWL thinks he is always correct and if you look at his posts they are always designed to get people upset.  Best thing for all eHam users to do is to ignore him when ever possible and only respond when he directs something in your direction.

73s
Rob
 
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
W7WQ
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Posts: 330




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« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2015, 04:50:14 PM »

You would be better served by putting your bucks in the antenna.  Although if you want to overcome your crappy antenna with 5Kw of rf, terrific.  This will also be a great way to meet new neighbors.
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