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Author Topic: DX Engineering 572b tubes  (Read 35451 times)
K8AXW
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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2016, 05:57:00 PM »

JX:  Gotta disagree with ya.....considering the prices (extremely low) for most items coming from China which includes free shipping, I'd say (guess?) that whatever RFP or anyone else pays for tubes, the Chinese are still making big bucks for each tube.

I think that their expertise in making quality tubes is still in the learning stage or they are simply taking advantage of a market with no competition and just making junk.

Their work force works for just a little more than the polluted air they breathe.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 06:03:32 PM by K8AXW » Logged

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W8JX
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2016, 05:14:03 AM »

JX:  Gotta disagree with ya.....considering the prices (extremely low) for most items coming from China which includes free shipping, I'd say (guess?) that whatever RFP or anyone else pays for tubes, the Chinese are still making big bucks for each tube.

I think that their expertise in making quality tubes is still in the learning stage or they are simply taking advantage of a market with no competition and just making junk.

Their work force works for just a little more than the polluted air they breathe.

China is growing and evolving and it worker are wanting more money. Amertron and RFP want to pay as little as possible for tubes. I suspect that if they were willing to pay more for higher quality tubes the would become available.  
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 06:00:44 AM by W8JX » Logged

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G3RZP
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2016, 08:54:42 AM »

Back in say 1975, how much were Cetron 572Bs in today's dollars? That number would perhaps give a ballpark figure of how much an equivalent to Cetron quality tube would cost to day.
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K8AXW
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2016, 09:17:55 AM »

Peter:  Using those figures.....wouldn't it be worth it to pay the bucks and have the Cetron quality?  Just a thought.  Mine are over 30 years old....as well as my Eimac 3-500Zs.

I don't know about others but every time I fire up my Chinese replacement 572bs (To cycle them) my pucker factor ramps up to hemorrhoidal levels!
 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 09:20:15 AM by K8AXW » Logged

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N4JAP
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2016, 12:24:13 PM »

DXE wants $89 per tube? Really?
John Shocked
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VK3BL
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2016, 05:40:26 PM »

If you look at a chinese site, they're less than half the price of any western retailers @ ~$32 USD.

The "$80/$89 USD" figure offered by stateside retailers is likely lining their pockets significantly given I'd expect they get them at a much better price direct from the manufacturers.  Maybe quality control really is as bad as they say, and for every two tubes they buy they can only sell one... but I doubt it very much.

The only reason 572Bs are so expensive is because we've been told that they are, and Ham's are desperate enough to pay it.

http://world.taobao.com/item/8272746462.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.wZ8Kuo#detail
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KK4YDR
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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2016, 12:55:32 AM »

DXE wants $89 per tube? Really?
John Shocked

They are just scalping. They have the tubes, people want them, they are gouging the piss out of poor hams.

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VK3BL
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« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2016, 05:16:42 AM »

If you look at a chinese site, they're less than half the price of any western retailers @ ~$32 USD.

The "$80/$89 USD" figure offered by stateside retailers is likely lining their pockets significantly given I'd expect they get them at a much better price direct from the manufacturers.  Maybe quality control really is as bad as they say, and for every two tubes they buy they can only sell one... but I doubt it very much.

The only reason 572Bs are so expensive is because we've been told that they are, and Ham's are desperate enough to pay it.

http://world.taobao.com/item/8272746462.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.wZ8Kuo#detail


The site is in Chinese, if you click translate the money is still Chinese.   So how much are they really? And how much is shipping?

210 Yuan, which is ~$32 USD
Shipping is apparently 75 Yuan per kilo, or $11.40 USD, which should cover a bit more than a single tube.

There is a flag top left, if you click on it and change it to your country, it will show a price conversion next to the chinese price.

taobao = the alibaba equivalent where smallish chinese retailers get their stock.  I have a friend who speaks Mandarin and is an importer of furniture, and he has brought me back stuff at the taobao price or below when bought from physical Chinese markets.

I am certain RF Parts pay less than $32 usd / tube.  The 811A prices are a good example - often US retailers are the same price as taobao for 811As, or less in the case of Ten Tec.  They must be getting them cheaper. 

There is no way defective tubes are returned under warranty to china; the postage cost alone would be insane, let alone the arguments with your sole supplier.  Even the big consumer goods retailers such as hardware stores just bin defective stock.

The only question is, what is the failure rate really like?  Do RF Parts really need to buy 2 or 3 tubes to get 1 serviceable one (and hence have to inflate the price 200-300% due to no factory returns?  I doubt that very much.

Carl can probably chime in, I believe he has some experience buying direct.

The facts of the matter would seem that hams are getting reamed on 572Bs, which in reality are only $10 more Chinese retail than 811As.

A known retailer convinced everyone tubes were unobtainium, and when they are available, have stupidly high failure rates.  They convinced everyone they do some magical testing that in reality wouldn't be economically viable (if they do any more than a visual inspection, hi pot and a 24 hour FILAMENT burn in I'd be amazed). 

We're all now paying for our ignorance, due to our unwillingness to purchase the product direct because of what a certain retailer claimed - that any and all other sources of 572Bs are junk grade returns.

I recently bought some oem 811As that after 15 hours TRANSMITTING time developed pin sized holes in the anodes.  Some would suggest if I had bought another known brand this wouldn't have happened due to their testing.  Well, a quick read of eham reviews shows that it does happen with that brand, and others. 

The fact is, NO retailer could test for this.  What retailer in their right mind would run tubes at rated dissipation for 15+ hours just to weed out infant mortality?  Well, none, of course, and I've never seen a company supply a 'new' tube that had those kind of hours on it, and its pretty easily to tell due to material discoloration.

Maybe the failure rate is 50%, but certainly not before at least 10 hours transmitting time are put on the tubes.  Personally, I'd rather have bought 2x the tubes at almost 1/3rd the price, swap them out myself and not have to worry about negotiating a refund.  Remember, 10 hours TRANSMITTING time might even be longer than a year warranty for some Hams.

Now, all we need is a reliable, reasonably priced Chinese retailer to pop up on the web or ebay...
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 05:39:29 AM by VK3HXT » Logged

J.D. Mitchell BA  - VK3BL / XU7AGA - https://www.youtube.com/ratemyradio - Honesty & Integrity
W1QJ
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« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2016, 05:37:33 AM »

I believe historically Carl bought from a seller on ebay which at the time were a few bucks less per tube than any US dealer.  There used to be about half dozen sellers on ebay but last time I checked they were maybe only one.  This is when the 572B's were supposed to have been halted in production.  The new RF Parts 572B tubes definitely look much different than what DXE is selling and these from China.  Tge ones at the site look like the old ones that were coming over.  If you read the specs on these tubes at the site all the ratings are given at a anode voltage of 1250v.  The Dentron Clipperton's run them at 2700 and the SB-200 at 2400, so this is 2X plus the ratings given at that website. Although a good tube should withstand many more times the operating voltage.  No tube I have seen looks like the new RF parts tube they are selling now.  With shipping you should be able to get a pair for $64.00 plus about $12 shipping or about $76.00 a pair. You could gamble and hope if you bought  two for every one you would buy stateside that over about a doen tubes you would be ahead of the deal.
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VK3BL
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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2016, 05:59:36 AM »

I believe historically Carl bought from a seller on ebay which at the time were a few bucks less per tube than any US dealer.  There used to be about half dozen sellers on ebay but last time I checked they were maybe only one.  This is when the 572B's were supposed to have been halted in production.  The new RF Parts 572B tubes definitely look much different than what DXE is selling and these from China.  Tge ones at the site look like the old ones that were coming over.  If you read the specs on these tubes at the site all the ratings are given at a anode voltage of 1250v.  The Dentron Clipperton's run them at 2700 and the SB-200 at 2400, so this is 2X plus the ratings given at that website. Although a good tube should withstand many more times the operating voltage.  No tube I have seen looks like the new RF parts tube they are selling now.  With shipping you should be able to get a pair for $64.00 plus about $12 shipping or about $76.00 a pair. You could gamble and hope if you bought  two for every one you would buy stateside that over about a doen tubes you would be ahead of the deal.

Agreed.  We only know a few things:

A) A 572B can be purchased from Chinese markets for $32 or less.
B) Stateside suppliers charge $80+ and claim a high failure rate of their stock that gets "returned" (does that inspire confidence?!)
C) All manufactured goods have a defect rate.
D) Retailer warranties are only of value if one can economically return the defective product to them.

The question is, do you believe sales people?  I don't.  Therefore, its likely that one would be slightly better off purchasing direct, even if that requires buying twice as many for ~2/3rd the price.

I'm particularly cynical, because stateside supplier warranties are absolutely useless to me anyway.  At our current exchange rate, an 811A is worth around $50 AUD.  It would cost me $30 AUD minimum to send that tube back for a replacement...  The faulty one I have still produces full output, and likely will for a considerable amount of time.  It is better to just suck it up and keep the defective but usable one when returning it would effectively increase my out of pocket price to $80 AUD.  After all, the replacement could exhibit the same behavior in another 15 hours... and if I returned that too, suddenly I've paid $110 AUD for a single 811A!

Given what I've seen with Chinese 811As (that defects show up after 10+ hours of TRANSMITTING time), there is no way I can justify spending $112 + shipping (at least another $30) AUD on a 572B, when for $106 AUD I could buy two Chinese OEM ones inclusive of shipping; if one failed I'd still be way ahead. 

Think about it.  If I buy 1 RF Parts 572B, it would cost me ~$140 AUD inc shipping.  If it goes bad and I have to return it for warranty, it has suddenly become a $170 AUD tube.  Not to mention the fact I'd likely have to buy at least an extra one or two to cover tide me over whilst it was replaced.

Luckily, I don't need any 572Bs.  I would like some, but I don't need them.  The Chinese are notorious for not honouring sole distributor contracts, and despite what ANY western supplier claims, the OEM product WILL be offered directly sooner or later if there is even $1 to be made. 

I'm waiting till that time comes - let the desperate pay the inflated prices whilst the supply chain catches up.

To be quite frank, the whole 811A & 572B situation is just damned frustrating, and unfortunately the retail model (1 year warranty at an inflated price) of US retailers is of little value to me.

 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 06:15:17 AM by VK3HXT » Logged

J.D. Mitchell BA  - VK3BL / XU7AGA - https://www.youtube.com/ratemyradio - Honesty & Integrity
K8AXW
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« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2016, 09:02:32 AM »

I had an old CB buddy tell one of his customers one day, "If ya wanna play, ya gotta pay!" 

Let's face it, anyone who uses tube type amps are standing in line with their pants down. 

An equal disgrace is the fact that nobody is building reliable SS amps at a reasonable price.  Of course this is open to conjecture but the bottom line is we're screwed by the Chinese, RFP, DXE, MFJ and no doubt a few others in the supply chain. 

Now we know what a bottle full of bugs might feel like!


 
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N9AOP
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« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2016, 02:11:34 PM »

What do you consider a reasonable price for a SS rig?  Like the other poster said, 'you gotta pay if you wanna play'.
Art
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K1DA
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« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2016, 06:00:19 PM »

I've been using a Kenwood L 922 for over 20 years with no tube or other problems. 
I'm not sure what "anyone who uses  tube type  amps" means.  The use of the term "anyone" is sloppy English.  There are many who can't tune up a tube amp, though and want a solid state amp because of it.
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K8AXW
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« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2016, 06:36:16 PM »

Sloppy English is probably correct....however the meaning is there and clear. If you own and use a tube type amplifier, you're at the mercy of the mentioned suppliers of the tubes you use. 

If you're a steady reader of this thread (which has been going on in one form or another for several months) you should understand this no matter how it's phrased.

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G3RZP
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« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2016, 04:14:25 AM »

In the mid 1960s as I recall, 572Bs by Cetron were £20 in the UK, or at that time, around $36. That was after the import duty and importer's mark up. So what is 1965's  $36  worth today? Is there any import tax for the Chinese tubes entering the US? If we use my favourite multiplier which is the relative prices of a pint of beer in the UK, the US price would be around $450: more realistically, they would probably be pushing $200. That would be OK if one could get Cetron quality.....
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