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Author Topic: DX Engineering 572b tubes  (Read 36011 times)
W8JX
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Posts: 13268




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« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2016, 10:03:57 AM »

Getting the tubes for $32 and selling them for $90 is as American as apple pie.
Artr

Today yes but there was a time when markup was not as greed driven as today.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
WD8T
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Posts: 259




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« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2016, 11:00:36 AM »

Getting the tubes for $32 and selling them for $90 is as American as apple pie.
Artr

Today yes but there was a time when markup was not as greed driven as today.


There was also a time when all the other costs associated with running a business weren't as expensive as they are today.
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KF7CG
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« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2016, 11:01:23 AM »

Markup over cost has been 25% or better of selling price for a long time. Even grocery stores, notorious for low margins, try for 10%. Let's assume that the actual cost of the tube alone is $30, now add shipping, warehousing, interest (though low right now) on the purchase, selling overhead, and other expenses and now what does the tube cost? $40, $50?

Now add a low end margin of 25% of selling price and the tubes go for $60 to $75 each given the normal business model. So if that $32 FOB china is correct for the tubes, RF Engineering might not be so far out of line.  Only time and the market will tell. Remember, as a reseller if for what ever reason you only get to sell half of the stock you purchase your cost on the items sold is twice what you paid for each one in the initial purchase.

KF7CG
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KM4AH
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« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2016, 11:24:20 AM »

Getting the tubes for $32 and selling them for $90 is as American as apple pie.
Artr

Today yes but there was a time when markup was not as greed driven as today.

That is where you are living in some kind of alternative reality. I'll give you an example. I was the rep for the largest PVC manufacturer in the country from 1978 until I retired. In 1978 the multiplier on off the trade sheet was .72 or for a really good customer .684. When I retired it was .12. Same sheet. You could go across the board whether it be Arrow Hart wiring devices, Appleton conduit fittings, Universal ballasts, whatever. Same thing. I doubt there is much of anything in the entire electrical industry not based on the cost of copper that you can't buy cheaper than you could 40 years ago.
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W8JX
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Posts: 13268




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« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2016, 11:31:15 AM »

Getting the tubes for $32 and selling them for $90 is as American as apple pie.
Artr

Today yes but there was a time when markup was not as greed driven as today.

That is where you are living in some kind of alternative reality. I'll give you an example. I was the rep for the largest PVC manufacturer in the country from 1978 until I retired. In 1978 the multiplier on off the trade sheet was .72 or for a really good customer .684. When I retired it was .12. Same sheet. You could go across the board whether it be Arrow Hart wiring devices, Appleton conduit fittings, Universal ballasts, whatever. Same thing. I doubt there is much of anything in the entire electrical industry not based on the cost of copper that you can't buy cheaper than you could 40 years ago.

Please explain how a markup of 2.81 the same as .72 HuhHuhHuhHuh?
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
W3RSW
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Posts: 606




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« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2016, 11:54:17 AM »

Um , that's 2.81 vs 1.72 and 1.12, etc. The 1.00 was implied as base before markup.
C. F., A sort of extended percentage although as explained to me in eighth grade there is no such thing as percentage over 100. ...but we all do it.  Grin
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 11:57:04 AM by W3RSW » Logged

Rick, W3RSW
KM4AH
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Posts: 963




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« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2016, 03:54:24 PM »

Getting the tubes for $32 and selling them for $90 is as American as apple pie.
Artr

Today yes but there was a time when markup was not as greed driven as today.

That is where you are living in some kind of alternative reality. I'll give you an example. I was the rep for the largest PVC manufacturer in the country from 1978 until I retired. In 1978 the multiplier on off the trade sheet was .72 or for a really good customer .684. When I retired it was .12. Same sheet. You could go across the board whether it be Arrow Hart wiring devices, Appleton conduit fittings, Universal ballasts, whatever. Same thing. I doubt there is much of anything in the entire electrical industry not based on the cost of copper that you can't buy cheaper than you could 40 years ago.

Please explain how a markup of 2.81 the same as .72 HuhHuhHuhHuh?


It is a multiplier. Pretty much everything sold by a rep on commission is priced that way since we get paid a flat rate % .

So, if it is $1.00 on the blue sheet at a .12 multiplier it cost the wholesaler 12 cents. Instead of 72 cents at a .72 multiplier.

Similarly, conduit bodies were .704 back in the day and down to a .40 when I retired.

It started out being a discount like 20 and 10 being 20% and 10% which would give you a .72 multiplier. In some industries it might be 20 25 5'5/s and a 2 1/2. So, it was discounts that created the multipliers , but at some point they didn't even make any sense anymore.
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KG0J
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« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2016, 10:39:18 AM »

Hi all.  I have just bought my first amp, an AL-811H.  I did a lot of research on 811A vs 572b and ran the 811As for couple of months with no issues but intended all along to switch to 572bs and have done so.  I looked at all sources I could find and knowing most of the issues with the Chinese tubes I found the new production 572bs from Shuguang and I ordered a set of 4 from Aliexpress in China.  They were running a special and I got them for $50 each.  The production date on the tubes is May 2015.  They have red lettering.  I carefully inspected them before putting them in the amp.  I ran them for approximately 4 hours with no HV applied, then applied HV and hit them with RF.  So far so good, they are making full output power, same as the 811As easily producing 800+ watts SSB.  Tuning and behavior seems very close to the 811As.  I've had no issues with arcing nor any other issues yet.  I've run them in AM mode running about 150W carrier, all reports have been good.  So my experience so far with the new production 572b has been very good.  We'll see a few months down the road how they are doing, assuming they survive :-).  So since there's only one factory making this tube it has to be the same source for DX Engineering and they look good so far.  My source was much cheaper (no QA of course) but it seems this maybe doesn't matter as much as it should. 

By the way, all four of the original 811A plate caps came off when I removed the tubes from the amp even though I was careful to follow the twist procedure to remove them.

Ron
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W8JX
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Posts: 13268




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« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2016, 12:46:42 PM »

Hi all.  I have just bought my first amp, an AL-811H.  I did a lot of research on 811A vs 572b and ran the 811As for couple of months with no issues but intended all along to switch to 572bs and have done so.  I looked at all sources I could find and knowing most of the issues with the Chinese tubes I found the new production 572bs from Shuguang and I ordered a set of 4 from Aliexpress in China.  They were running a special and I got them for $50 each.  The production date on the tubes is May 2015.  They have red lettering.  I carefully inspected them before putting them in the amp.  I ran them for approximately 4 hours with no HV applied, then applied HV and hit them with RF.  So far so good, they are making full output power, same as the 811As easily producing 800+ watts SSB.  Tuning and behavior seems very close to the 811As.  I've had no issues with arcing nor any other issues yet.  I've run them in AM mode running about 150W carrier, all reports have been good.  So my experience so far with the new production 572b has been very good.  We'll see a few months down the road how they are doing, assuming they survive :-).  So since there's only one factory making this tube it has to be the same source for DX Engineering and they look good so far.  My source was much cheaper (no QA of course) but it seems this maybe doesn't matter as much as it should. 

By the way, all four of the original 811A plate caps came off when I removed the tubes from the amp even though I was careful to follow the twist procedure to remove them.

Ron

A 811 amp cannot begin to really "test" a new 572 as plate voltage is 800 to 1000 volts below what it is in amps built for 572's. BTW you could of done as well with 3 tubes instead of 4 as there would of been no loss of output power as the 811a power supply lacks current capacity to hurt even 3 of them when tuning. Two 572's have about 50 % more safe continuous dissipation capacity than four 811's
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KG0J
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Posts: 5




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« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2016, 12:58:53 PM »

Yes I am aware of all that and at some point I might lower the tube count to 3 but since Ameritron supplies the production version of this amp with all 4 tubes installed I followed that configuration to start.  My goal is to have the near bullet proof performance within the abilities of the power supply that this amp will give me which is the additional 9db.  And if the 572bs really don't work out I can go back to 811As and still comfortably have nearly the output I'm looking for.

The point of the post was to convey my experience with the new production 572b tube, not the merits of the AL-811H.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 01:01:46 PM by KB0FQM » Logged
VK3BL
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Posts: 1790


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« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2016, 02:42:07 PM »

Yes I am aware of all that and at some point I might lower the tube count to 3 but since Ameritron supplies the production version of this amp with all 4 tubes installed I followed that configuration to start.  My goal is to have the near bullet proof performance within the abilities of the power supply that this amp will give me which is the additional 9db.  And if the 572bs really don't work out I can go back to 811As and still comfortably have nearly the output I'm looking for.

The point of the post was to convey my experience with the new production 572b tube, not the merits of the AL-811H.



Thanks for the post Ron, I'm very keen on your follow up impressions.
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J.D. Mitchell BA  - VK3BL / XU7AGA - https://www.youtube.com/ratemyradio - Honesty & Integrity
KOP
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Posts: 346




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« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2016, 05:42:32 PM »

572BMQ-RFP Transmitting Tube, SELECT Matched Quad, RF Parts    572BMQ-RFP    1    $319.80
Subtotal    $319.80
Shipping & Handling    $19.08
Grand Total (Excl.Tax)    $338.88
Tax    $0.00
Grand Total (Incl.Tax)    $338.88

The chassis WAS a HA-10 Warrior , emphasis on was . Plate supply is no longer choke input filtered and the 866's have been removed in favor of a modern full wave bridge . The heat coming off this beast is significant . I'll be able to give a more complete picture of operation when I get the band switch back in order (like that never happens) . I may be in the minority as I don't drive 572's that hard nor do I run full plate voltage . Still I may be able to contribute a decent bit of information , or carnage :-)

~kop
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I considered a microwave oven magnetron and a 4' dish as a drone-killer. The ERP would be on the order of a hundred thousand watts or so. ~anon

November 28, 2018, 09:16:04 AM
KM1H
Member

Posts: 5546




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« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2016, 11:36:02 AM »

It will be interesting to see how long that transformer lasts even at a QRP 1000W Roll Eyes
At least it came with a small fan to pull some air over it

Carl
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