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Author Topic: Giving up on Linux  (Read 38797 times)
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1315




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« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2016, 05:13:54 PM »

Some want to believe that Linux is the holy grail and the answer to Windows haters but when reality sets in, unless you are wearing rose colored glasses, you will see that independent of how stable Linux may be, it has VERY VERY limited application support. Some will quickly claim that many businesses use it but they also only use a few applications and those are usually also custom written for their needs. For home users selection is very limited and pales badly to Windows and even Apple at times.

Businesses use a ton of Linux . . . servers that is. I am not away of many that use desktop Linux.

A small list of desktop users:
Google
Munich
Largo
NASA
French Gendarmerie
US Department of Defense
CERN
South African Social Security Agency
University of Information Science in Cuba
U.S. Army
Vienna
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Rick KK4GGL
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1315




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« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2016, 05:24:48 PM »

Generally speaking...Use all the operating systems out there, don't limit yourself to just one.  They ALL have advantages and disadvantages. Linux has hundreds if not thousands of FREE programs just for the taking. Android probably has even more. The iPad works great for many people and they have ditched their PC's in favor of it. 

There is likely more free apps for windows than all other combined. Poor logic
There's a lot of flies surrounding manure, too. So, what?

Linux might be a good choice to upgrade old Windows XP computers with. Not everyone wants to throw out otherwise perfectly usable computers just because some company no longer supports the operating system. Put that old computer to good use in the ham shack. Or upgrade it with Linux to use on the net.
Perfectly usable? For what standards no longer used, HD standards no longer made, obsolete ram standards ans list goes on. XP machines are pretty old and hardware is old and can die any th=ime and new hardware is dirt cheap.
Dirt cheap for you is not dirt cheap for everyone. When are you going to start buying new computers for everyone, and paying for the app upgrades?

I suggest keeping at least one working XP computer around the shack as well as older Windows operating systems around to run legacy programs. Although dated, there are some still perfectly usable ahd FREE ham radio programs kicking around the net that run on Windows 98, 95 and DOS. Programs like old packet radio and logging programs.
Bad idea because of reasons above and many do not understand the risks of using a non supported OS on internet and think they know more about security than authors that stopped supporting it.

Some mill machines run on Windows NT 4.0. Some LMR programming software requires DOS or Windows 95. The Icom M-710 requires DOS to run the programming software on it.
Old hardware that needs to be laid to rest
... or used.

You could keep a packet station going in the corner of your shack running legacy equipment. Some hams already have an old computer, an old TNC and some 25 year old HTX 202 or IC-2AT laying around gathering dust. Put it all to good use and start a packet station.
Why keep a old system that is on borrowed time and power hungry when you can put together a computer on a stick and TNC cheap with modern technology and will likely last many years and run on very minimal power too.
That is exactly what the DOD has done.. with a Linux based distro.

Bottom line, use whatever you want, but you don't have to limit yourself to just one operating system any more than limiting yourself to one type of ham radio manufacturer.
What ever OS you pick for PC pick one as it makes using it and share data among them far easier and a hodge podge of hardware and OSes.
I've picked OpenSuse Tumbleweed for now. I may be switching to Debian Testing.
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Rick KK4GGL
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1315




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« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2016, 05:34:35 PM »

For many months I have been trying to convert to Linux Mint - a very good Linux distribution. However, it has become abundantly clear that Linux is just not for me There are several programs that I use on a daily basis - including HRD - that have no comparables available for Linux.
I am not aware of a single application that does all the things HRD does, but I believe that you get the same effect using a couple separate apps. A bit of a cliche regarding *nix apps is that they do one thing well :-)
The final straw came with the wasted afternoon trying to get my PCI serial board to operate under Linux. So easy with Windows - just install and turn the computer on. It finds and installs the drivers for you and all is good.
I am probably going to put a serial card in a couple of my machines. Which card did you get?
I believe that if anything can be done easily - it will not be found on Linux.
I have found the opposite.
So, I have returned to Windows - but, not for the lack of trying. If all you want to do is browse, email, Skype,and office work - then Linux will work well for you. Most other things are way too difficult for the average user.
Bill W2BLC
I do browse, email  and use LibreOffice, but I also edit graphics and video, use digital modes, packet and APRS, slow scan, and a number of other things. All of those are through point and click GUI which the "average user" (whatever that is) is more than capable of using.
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Rick KK4GGL
K7EXJ
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Posts: 875




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« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2016, 06:21:22 PM »

Here is a listing of just the ham radio applications available - for free - on Linux. To see the list use the drop down menu next to "Show me" and select "all", by "title" and then click on "do it now".

https://radio.linux.org.au/?sectpat=All&ordpat=title

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73s de K7EXJ
Craig Smiley
NN4RH
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Posts: 538




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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2016, 04:32:01 AM »

Here is a listing of just the ham radio applications available - for free - on Linux. To see the list use the drop down menu next to "Show me" and select "all", by "title" and then click on "do it now".

https://radio.linux.org.au/?sectpat=All&ordpat=title

Sure there's a list of a couple hundred "Linux ham radio applications" but only a few of them are worth anything. Most of them are clunky, poorly programmed, and terribly simple-minded. Most are very old.

I am a Linux user myself, but realistically, serious ham radio software for Linux is almost nonexistant compared to Windows or even Mac.   

If someone just has to use HRD then they'll have to use Windows.



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NN4RH
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Posts: 538




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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2016, 04:39:39 AM »


A small list of desktop users:
. . .
NASA
. . .
US Department of Defense
. . .
CERN
. . .
U.S. Army
. . .

You're being disingenuous.   You're not going to walk into a NASA or DOD office and find everyone using Linux desktops.  You might find a handful in an entire agency, used by scientific staff for arcane things.

In fact DoD has mandated that everyone (everyone who can) move to Windows 10 by the end of the year.

CERN, sure, at least the scientists, but I'd  bet that  the admin and support staff all use Windows.

Quote
. . .
South African Social Security Agency
. . .
University of Information Science in Cuba
. . .

Yeah. We should all switch to Linux because some obscure but implied to be forward-thinking Cuban university uses it?  More likely they just have antique computers and Linux is the only OS that runs on them.

South African SSA?  Special case of networked systems. Not typical desktop environment.


« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 04:45:40 AM by NN4RH » Logged
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1315




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« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2016, 05:45:12 AM »


A small list of desktop users:
. . .
NASA
. . .
US Department of Defense
. . .
CERN
. . .
U.S. Army
. . .

You're being disingenuous.   You're not going to walk into a NASA or DOD office and find everyone using Linux desktops.  You might find a handful in an entire agency, used by scientific staff for arcane things.
You certainly did cut down the list. And I didn't say you'd walk into a NASA or DOD office and find everyone using Linux desktops
You can fly to the ISS. They're using Debian.
In fact DoD has mandated that everyone (everyone who can) move to Windows 10 by the end of the year.
The DOD (Army) has the biggest install of Red Hat in the World. Linux is used on US submarines.
CERN, sure, at least the scientists, but I'd  bet that  the admin and support staff all use Windows.
I don't know about the desktops, but the Large Hadron Collider Logging Server, and the central financial and HR systems are run on Red Hat.

Quote
. . .
South African Social Security Agency
. . .
University of Information Science in Cuba
. . .
Yeah. We should all switch to Linux because some obscure but implied to be forward-thinking Cuban university uses it?  More likely they just have antique computers and Linux is the only OS that runs on them.

South African SSA?  Special case of networked systems. Not typical desktop environment.

You're being just a little cutesy dismissive, aren’t you?
I did not say we should all switch to Linux. I have stated that if   Linux distros don't work for you, don't use them. What I do try to counter is the people that spread innuendo, myths and lies about Linux based software. BTW, if you're  usig a portable computing device, the odds are good it is powered by Linux.
Here's the missing list entries and more:

Google- desktops
Munich - desktops
Largo - desktops
French Gendarmerie - desktops
French Parliament - desktops
Ernie Ball - everything
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Rick KK4GGL
NN4RH
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Posts: 538




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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2016, 06:09:36 AM »

Now you're getting ridiculous. 

You're talking about network servers, supercomputers, and special purpose, arcane customized systems.

Not many of us have Hadron Colliders or nuclear submarines in our homes and offices.


The thread was about desktops.

 The share of desktops using Linux OS is only 1 or 2 percent and that has not changed in decades and is unlikely to ever increase.

Probably the same applies to laptops.

Android for phones and tablets - sure - but that is not what the topic of discussion was.

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W8JX
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Posts: 13268




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« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2016, 06:47:13 AM »

I think NN4RH sums it up well. You cannot equate specialized Linux use with custom built apps for it to home desktop usage yet many try to use it to save face in their pro Linux arguments.
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--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1315




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« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2016, 07:40:18 AM »

Now you're getting ridiculous. 
You're talking about network servers, supercomputers, and special purpose, arcane customized systems.
Not many of us have Hadron Colliders or nuclear submarines in our homes and offices.
The thread was about desktops.
Google- desktops
Munich - desktops
Largo - desktops
French Gendarmerie - desktops
French Parliament - desktops
Ernie Ball - everything
Amateur radio operators-desktops
The share of desktops using Linux OS is only 1 or 2 percent and that has not changed in decades and is unlikely to ever increase.
Probably the same applies to laptops.
Yes, so?
Android for phones and tablets - sure - but that is not what the topic of discussion was.
Many people are using tablets as laptop replacements.
And, AGAIN, if Linux distros don't work for you, don't use them. If you've decided you must use HRD, then a Linux based distro is probably not for you. If that is the only Windows app you must have  (for example)  you might be able to put that into a VM. However... Linux based distros are more than adequate for a large number of desktop users. Everyone? No. There's no need to spread innuendo, myths and lies.
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Rick KK4GGL
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1315




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« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2016, 07:41:24 AM »

I think NN4RH sums it up well. You cannot equate specialized Linux use with custom built apps for it to home desktop usage yet many try to use it to save face in their pro Linux arguments.

Buy a clue. Get your head out of Microsoft’s butt.

Home video editing is not custom built apps.
Home audio editing is not custom built apps.
Graphics editing is not custom built apps.
Making business or greeting cards is not custom built apps.
Desktop publishing editing is not usually custom built apps.
Using digital modes is not custom built apps.
APRS is not custom built apps.
Packet radio is not custom built apps.
Rig Control is not custom built apps.

All can be accomplished using Linux based distributions, with quality applications.



« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 07:47:25 AM by KK4GGL » Logged

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Rick KK4GGL
NN4RH
Member

Posts: 538




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« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2016, 09:08:47 AM »


And, AGAIN, if Linux distros don't work for you, don't use them. . . . There's no need to spread innuendo, myths and lies.

If you had bothered to read the posts instead of mindlessly gut-reacting as you usually do, you would have seen that I AM a Linux user. I'm just not inclined to fall for the "innuendo, myths and lies" that you like to spout.
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NN4RH
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Posts: 538




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« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2016, 09:22:52 AM »

I think NN4RH sums it up well. You cannot equate specialized Linux use with custom built apps for it to home desktop usage yet many try to use it to save face in their pro Linux arguments.

Buy a clue. Get your head out of Microsoft’s butt.

Home video editing is not custom built apps.
Home audio editing is not custom built apps.
Graphics editing is not custom built apps.
Making business or greeting cards is not custom built apps.
Desktop publishing editing is not usually custom built apps.
Using digital modes is not custom built apps.
APRS is not custom built apps.
Packet radio is not custom built apps.
Rig Control is not custom built apps.

All can be accomplished using Linux based distributions, with quality applications.


All of which can be accomplished easily with Windows or Mac OSX, too. So hardly an argument in favor of switching to Linux. On second and third reads, I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make.


One thing Linux is very good at is staying out of the way.  If you're doing any serious coding, computational/modeling, scientific work, you want to OS to stay out of your way.  It's also good at being customizable. That's why you find it in a lot of arcane applications.

It's not very good at being compatible with the rest of the world with respect to hardware and consumer software.

I use Linux at work for computational/mathematical work. But when I need to prepare a word processing document or a spreadsheet or a slide presentation, I swing the chair around and use the Windows machine, or start up the MacBook Pro, and use MS Office.  



« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 09:25:17 AM by NN4RH » Logged
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1315




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« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2016, 09:30:08 AM »


And, AGAIN, if Linux distros don't work for you, don't use them. . . . There's no need to spread innuendo, myths and lies.

If you had bothered to read the posts instead of mindlessly gut-reacting as you usually do, you would have seen that I AM a Linux user. I'm just not inclined to fall for the "innuendo, myths and lies" that you like to spout.
You are the one spreading "innuendo, myths and lies" .
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Rick KK4GGL
NN4RH
Member

Posts: 538




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« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2016, 09:39:43 AM »

Phillips screw drivers are better than flat head screw drivers!

Proof:

NASA uses Phillips screwdrivers!
DOD uses Phillips screwdrivers!

There are Phillips screwdrivers on nuclear submarines and in the space station! They used Phillips Screwdrivers in the assembly of the Large Hadron Collider!

Bill's Auto Repair in Buzzard Flat  Idaho uses Phillips screwdrivers! 

These are just a small sampling of the thousands of places that use Phillips Screwdrivers!
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