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Author Topic: Giving up on Linux  (Read 39461 times)
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1327




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« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2016, 09:41:22 AM »

I think NN4RH sums it up well. You cannot equate specialized Linux use with custom built apps for it to home desktop usage yet many try to use it to save face in their pro Linux arguments.

Buy a clue. Get your head out of Microsoft’s butt.

Home video editing is not custom built apps.
Home audio editing is not custom built apps.
Graphics editing is not custom built apps.
Making business or greeting cards is not custom built apps.
Desktop publishing editing is not usually custom built apps.
Using digital modes is not custom built apps.
APRS is not custom built apps.
Packet radio is not custom built apps.
Rig Control is not custom built apps.

All can be accomplished using Linux based distributions, with quality applications.


All of which can be accomplished easily with Windows or Mac OSX, too. So hardly an argument in favor of switching to Linux.
I don't have to pay for the software upgrades. I don't have to worry about malware as much as Windows. I don't have to pay the higher prices for Mac. Your reasons for not switching to Linux distros from Windows would be the same for switching to MacOS.
On second and third reads, I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make.
A Linux based distro is more than adequate for many desktop users.
One thing Linux is very good at is staying out of the way.  If you're doing any serious coding, computational/modeling, scientific work, you want to OS to stay out of your way.  It's also good at being customizable. That's why you find it in a lot of arcane applications.

Yeah. Arcane applications. Uh huh.
It's not very good at being compatible with the rest of the world with respect to hardware and consumer software.
Actually, it is , depending on what you mean by "not very good".
I use Linux at work for computational/mathematical work. But when I need to prepare a word processing document or a spreadsheet or a slide presentation, I swing the chair around and use the Windows machine, or start up the MacBook Pro, and use MS Office.  
I used Linux distros a lot at work. When  I needed to prepare a word processing document or a spreadsheet or a slide presentation I often. stayed working within my distro.
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1327




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« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2016, 09:42:21 AM »

Phillips screw drivers are better than flat head screw drivers!

Proof:

NASA uses Phillips screwdrivers!
DOD uses Phillips screwdrivers!

There are Phillips screwdrivers on nuclear submarines and in the space station! They used Phillips Screwdrivers in the assembly of the Large Hadron Collider!

Bill's Auto Repair in Buzzard Flat  Idaho uses Phillips screwdrivers! 

These are just a small sampling of the thousands of places that use Phillips Screwdrivers!

Really? You are going to go with that?
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
KD8TUT
Member

Posts: 522




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« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2016, 08:06:58 PM »

I'm unclear why anyone would bother arguing any of this.

Microsoft Windows is a consumer OS. Designed for consumers. Yes you can drill down into it if you are a geek, engineer, scientist, or other interested party.

Linux is an unchained system. Not limited by general copyright other than various FOSS licenses. You have source code availability, unlimited ability to customize the function of the system, and the freedom to share those changes to the system with almost no limitations.

So in the case of using Linux: you must, as a condition of use, know what you are doing- assuming you want to accomplish anything. Or alternatively desire to become more than a "computer user" in the consumer sense of the term.

I wish people would stop trying to shoehorn Linux onto the desktop. Sure- there are places that use it in that manner. But really, most computer users will just find frustration.

Power users might find use for it. But most hams don't know or understand computers. So Linux is a bad idea for most hams.

That being said: It's not really a topic that needs to be debated with religious zeal Smiley
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K5TED
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Posts: 241




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« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2016, 08:29:46 PM »

Personally, I prefer not to have to 'control' the PC at very turn. I just want the OS to work with me, running the programs that I select to run, automatically knowing what dependencies are required, what drivers are needed, and just taking care of all the background with the least amount of intervention and fiddling on my part.

Windows does that. Sometimes I have to point it to the correct driver. Otherwise, mostly smooth as silk

Linux DOES NOT. Mostly a pain in the butt to get to do anything, sudo this, sudo that, blah blah, apt-get install this , that, mkdir, bash, sheesh, what a load of BS.

I'm past the teenage experience of having to get under the hood and tweak the hot rod and make a trip to the parts store every time I want to go further than dragging Main St..

Yeah, I 'use' Linux to do specific tasks on barebones hardware. That's what it's good for. 

I don't have any embarrassing porn, extremist anarchist how-to's, or damning personal information to hide from the gummint or some wayward 'lil script kiddie looking for CC info. I don't keep that sort of thing on a PC and neither should you. Stupid you, if you choose to treat something connected to the Internet as a locked file cabinet.



To each his own..

  
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 08:32:35 PM by K5TED » Logged
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1327




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« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2016, 08:35:26 PM »

I'm unclear why anyone would bother arguing any of this.

Microsoft Windows is a consumer OS. Designed for consumers. Yes you can drill down into it if you are a geek, engineer, scientist, or other interested party.

Linux is an unchained system. Not limited by general copyright other than various FOSS licenses. You have source code availability, unlimited ability to customize the function of the system, and the freedom to share those changes to the system with almost no limitations.

So in the case of using Linux: you must, as a condition of use, know what you are doing- assuming you want to accomplish anything. Or alternatively desire to become more than a "computer user" in the consumer sense of the term.

I wish people would stop trying to shoehorn Linux onto the desktop. Sure- there are places that use it in that manner. But really, most computer users will just find frustration.
Canonical, Red Hat and Novell seem to disagree with you.
Power users might find use for it. But most hams don't know or understand computers. So Linux is a bad idea for most hams.
And why is that? Installing modern Linux based distros is easy. There is plenty of amateur radio software that is easy to install and use.
That being said: It's not really a topic that needs to be debated with religious zeal Smiley
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Rick KK4GGL
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1327




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« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2016, 08:37:49 PM »

Personally, I prefer not to have to 'control' the PC at very turn. I just want the OS to work with me, running the programs that I select to run, automatically knowing what dependencies are required, what drivers are needed, and just taking care of all the background with the least amount of intervention and fiddling on my part.

Windows does that. Sometimes I have to point it to the correct driver. Otherwise, mostly smooth as silk

Linux DOES NOT. Mostly a pain in the butt to get to do anything, sudo this, sudo that, blah blah, apt-get install this , that, mkdir, bash, sheesh, what a load of BS.
In a modern desktop distro, what requires sudo this, sudo that,  apt-get install this , that, mkdir, bash?
I'm past the teenage experience of having to get under the hood and tweak the hot rod and make a trip to the parts store every time I want to go further than dragging Main St..

Yeah, I 'use' Linux to do specific tasks on barebones hardware. That's what it's good for.  {/quote]
It is good for much more than that.
I don't have any embarrassing porn, extremist anarchist how-to's, or damning personal information to hide from the gummint or some wayward 'lil script kiddie looking for CC info. I don't keep that sort of thing on a PC and neither should you. Stupid you, if you choose to treat something connected to the Internet as a locked file cabinet.

To each his own..  
Sure.
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
K5TED
Member

Posts: 241




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« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2016, 08:56:18 PM »

Well, try to install RTL drivers, Dump1090 Mutability, SOCAT, Temp, and OpenSSH on Ubuntu, make it run headless without hanging at the grub, then come back and tell me how you did it all and configured then tweaked the operating parameters from the GUI without any command line intervention.

I'm waiting.

(with Win10, it's "download the Dump1090 .exe" run it, "Download the RTL driver, install", Download "SOCAT", run it, enable RDP, use Notepad to modify the batch files for Dump and SOCAT, start it all up in a batch file you created with Notepad, enjoy. No command line needed unless you are a glutton for remote access punishment and insist on using Powershell to do things all at once)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 09:05:34 PM by K5TED » Logged
KD8TUT
Member

Posts: 522




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« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2016, 09:02:56 PM »

I'm unclear why anyone would bother arguing any of this.

Microsoft Windows is a consumer OS. Designed for consumers. Yes you can drill down into it if you are a geek, engineer, scientist, or other interested party.

Linux is an unchained system. Not limited by general copyright other than various FOSS licenses. You have source code availability, unlimited ability to customize the function of the system, and the freedom to share those changes to the system with almost no limitations.

So in the case of using Linux: you must, as a condition of use, know what you are doing- assuming you want to accomplish anything. Or alternatively desire to become more than a "computer user" in the consumer sense of the term.

I wish people would stop trying to shoehorn Linux onto the desktop. Sure- there are places that use it in that manner. But really, most computer users will just find frustration.
Canonical, Red Hat and Novell seem to disagree with you.
Power users might find use for it. But most hams don't know or understand computers. So Linux is a bad idea for most hams.
And why is that? Installing modern Linux based distros is easy. There is plenty of amateur radio software that is easy to install and use.
That being said: It's not really a topic that needs to be debated with religious zeal Smiley

Whatever. Hold root on 100 boxen, then tell me your opinion.

Canonical, Red Hat and Novell *wish* they could get into the desktop market (in a meaningful way). But placing a Red Hat distro in front of a ham is going to be a joke because of the backport policy and the lack of the most up to date apps. Then when you want to compile cutting edge ham software- good luck with the dependencies.

Novell's Suse is garbage. Ubuntu is a joke as a server OS, but fairly user friendly on the desktop- sort of. Of course if you want to run it as a development box have a good time!

Out of all of those- I'd pick a Red Hat enterprise release- or CentOS (binary compatible). Additionally, source RPMs are easier to work with than a tarball. Or interestingly enough the "other package systems".

Linux is a bad platform for non computer hams. If you are using Linux successfully (in any application) your level of computer competency is well ahead of the general public. Which was my point. But you apparently cannot read.
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KD8TUT
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Posts: 522




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« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2016, 09:04:17 PM »

Well, try to install RTL drivers, Dump1090 Mutability, SOCAT, Temp, and OpenSSH on Ubuntu, make it run headless without hanging at the grub, then come back and tell me how you did it all and configured then tweaked the operating parameters from the GUI without any command line intervention.

I'm waiting.


I charge $125.00 an hour for that information Smiley
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Putting a Shatnerologist in a room full of ordinary people is like putting a velociraptor in a room full of wiener dogs.
K5TED
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Posts: 241




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« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2016, 09:06:02 PM »

Well, try to install RTL drivers, Dump1090 Mutability, SOCAT, Temp, and OpenSSH on Ubuntu, make it run headless without hanging at the grub, then come back and tell me how you did it all and configured then tweaked the operating parameters from the GUI without any command line intervention.

I'm waiting.


I charge $125.00 an hour for that information Smiley

I do it for fun. I suppose some like to play with the PC like they do the radio parts. It's all good.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 09:09:15 PM by K5TED » Logged
KD8TUT
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Posts: 522




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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2016, 09:08:43 PM »

Well, try to install RTL drivers, Dump1090 Mutability, SOCAT, Temp, and OpenSSH on Ubuntu, make it run headless without hanging at the grub, then come back and tell me how you did it all and configured then tweaked the operating parameters from the GUI without any command line intervention.

I'm waiting.


I charge $125.00 an hour for that information Smiley

I do it for fun.

I can understand that. It is fun. But I'm a systems engineer. So I do it for money (and it's still fun).
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Putting a Shatnerologist in a room full of ordinary people is like putting a velociraptor in a room full of wiener dogs.
K7EXJ
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Posts: 875




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« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2016, 10:59:48 AM »

Linux is a bad platform for non computer hams. If you are using Linux successfully (in any application) your level of computer competency is well ahead of the general public.

I'll have to pass this along to my 83-year-old mother-in-law who has been a Kubuntu user for the past year. On the most beautiful wide screen monitor I've ever seen (she's nearly blind).

I set it up, but she uses it every day. And has even changed a couple of things and updates it regularly (that is a pretty simple operation, actually). I live 200 miles away so I can't get there (and her ISP has her behind a NAT) so she's on her own for months at a time. (The other day she called me for help and it turned out someone had kicked the keyboard connector out of the computer... I told her to check and she was on Facebook clicking a "like" for a photo of her granddaughter 15 minutes later.)

Most people who fail at Linux are either incapable of forming a simple Google search term or so heavily wedded to applications or games available only on other operating systems that they cannot bring themselves to change. Whatever you want to do with Linux, someone else has already done it and their explanation of how to do it is out there, somewhere.

The difficulty of using Linux on the desktop is highly over-magnified.

I have used Linux as my sole desktop in a business environment every day since 1995. It is far simpler to use now than it's ever been. The only things that I can think of that it won't do are native MS Office macros in Libre Office... and some professional engineering CAD systems. (And when those go to their "pay by the month" versions I'm thinking that might change: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuEngineering,)

At one time I had to keep one Windows box for accounting and TurboTax; not because Linux accounting applications are bad (SQL-Ledger is amazing) but because most CPAs only understand Intuit products. But now that Intuit has cloud-based accounting I do my accounts on-line and turn the Windows box on only at tax time. One week a year. Soon that will end, too.

But I have to admit I have made a lot more money from WIndows than I ever have from Linux. Servers that work for years at a time don't add much to the cash flow. As a friend says, "Put Linux on a computer and eat for a day; put Windows on a computer and eat for years."

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73s de K7EXJ
Craig Smiley
WW7KE
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Posts: 948




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« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2016, 05:00:03 PM »

Linux is a bad platform for non computer hams. If you are using Linux successfully (in any application) your level of computer competency is well ahead of the general public. Which was my point. But you apparently cannot read.

No non-technical person should ever install and/or maintain any OS, be it Linux, Windows, OSX, or even MS-DOS, any more than a non-mechanic should work on a car.

But that doesn't mean that the average person can't learn to use it and run his/her favorite applications on it.  Grandma certainly can use Linux if it's configured in a way that's familiar (read:  Similar to WinXP or 7).  Installation and maintenance should be left to her retired-engineer or IT friend or 12-year-old grandson. Grin
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K5UNX
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Posts: 813


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« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2016, 05:12:32 PM »


At one time I had to keep one Windows box for accounting and TurboTax; not because Linux accounting applications are bad (SQL-Ledger is amazing) but because most CPAs only understand Intuit products. But now that Intuit has cloud-based accounting I do my accounts on-line and turn the Windows box on only at tax time. One week a year. Soon that will end, too.



I use Turbo Tax and have not installed any software in several years. It has been web based for a while now.

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K7EXJ
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« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2016, 05:30:54 PM »


At one time I had to keep one Windows box for accounting and TurboTax; not because Linux accounting applications are bad (SQL-Ledger is amazing) but because most CPAs only understand Intuit products. But now that Intuit has cloud-based accounting I do my accounts on-line and turn the Windows box on only at tax time. One week a year. Soon that will end, too.

I use Turbo Tax and have not installed any software in several years. It has been web based for a while now.

Not for corporations.
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73s de K7EXJ
Craig Smiley
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