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Author Topic: Giving up on Linux  (Read 39060 times)
KD8TUT
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Posts: 522




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« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2016, 06:15:10 PM »


Oh, and BTW, where am I wrong?  I'm not looking for an argument.  Anything you think I erred on, please let me know.

It's a nit picky list. But if you go over my posts you'll see in some areas we're saying the same things different ways.

Still chuckling over being a Microsoft apologist... that is really funny. And it's even funnier since I spent 6 years as a systems engineer at Apple- followed by 15 years deploying Linux.

Thanks for being cool.

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Putting a Shatnerologist in a room full of ordinary people is like putting a velociraptor in a room full of wiener dogs.
W0BTU
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Posts: 2219


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« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2016, 06:16:49 PM »

Gentlemen,

I think you are wasting your time here arguing about Windows vs. Linux. Read this and see if the course of wisdom might be to just stop feeding the shills/trolls/know-it-alls/whatever-the-case-may-be. :-)

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&safe=active&site=&source=hp&q=microsoft+paid+shills



Decide for yourself.  Smiley
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 06:24:47 PM by W0BTU » Logged

WW7KE
Member

Posts: 909




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« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2016, 06:27:17 PM »

I hate Microsoft. Almost everything serious I run is Linux... Christ!!

Where did you get the idea I liked Microsoft?

That's not the point. The point is that taking a ham and giving him Linux is a bad idea if that ham is not computer savvy.

That's it. Linux demands a higher level of competency.

OK, fair enough.  I misunderstood you and I apologize for that. 

But I still disagree that Linux would be that hard for most hams.  By definition we've had at least some kind of technical training in order to get a license.  Even though computers and RF are different disciplines, I don't think it'd be that difficult for most of us.  Being a guru isn't necessary, but learning the basics of using an OS -- any OS -- to do what you want, is.
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He speaks fluent PSK31, in FT8...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!
K7EXJ
Member

Posts: 875




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« Reply #63 on: March 05, 2016, 06:33:02 PM »

That's not the point. The point is that taking a ham and giving him Linux is a bad idea if that ham is not computer savvy.

That's it. Linux demands a higher level of competency.

And only guys like you have that competency. If you don't already have it, don't try Linux.

But, that's Catch-22. Because it's hard to get that level of competency demanded from Linux until you dive in and start using it. Once you do that an entirely new world of what you can do with a computer opens up.

So stop telling them not to...
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73s de K7EXJ
Craig Smiley
KD8TUT
Member

Posts: 522




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« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2016, 06:35:07 PM »

I hate Microsoft. Almost everything serious I run is Linux... Christ!!

Where did you get the idea I liked Microsoft?

That's not the point. The point is that taking a ham and giving him Linux is a bad idea if that ham is not computer savvy.

That's it. Linux demands a higher level of competency.

OK, fair enough.  I misunderstood you and I apologize for that. 

But I still disagree that Linux would be that hard for most hams.  By definition we've had at least some kind of technical training in order to get a license.  Even though computers and RF are different disciplines, I don't think it'd be that difficult for most of us.  Being a guru isn't necessary, but learning the basics of using an OS -- any OS -- to do what you want, is.

Yes... perhaps

I don't know if it's hard for most hams. It's my profession so it's easy at this point.

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Putting a Shatnerologist in a room full of ordinary people is like putting a velociraptor in a room full of wiener dogs.
KD8TUT
Member

Posts: 522




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« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2016, 06:40:36 PM »

That's not the point. The point is that taking a ham and giving him Linux is a bad idea if that ham is not computer savvy.

That's it. Linux demands a higher level of competency.

And only guys like you have that competency. If you don't already have it, don't try Linux.

But, that's Catch-22. Because it's hard to get that level of competency demanded from Linux until you dive in and start using it. Once you do that an entirely new world of what you can do with a computer opens up.

So stop telling them not to...


Nowhere did I say they shouldn't.

Linux is not the place to start using and managing computers. It's just not. If you do it, more than likely you'll be putting some poor soul through a heck of a time, when a cheap used windows box would give them the basic skills without the esoteric skills you need on a *nix system.

Also... if they start on what most people use- they will better appreciate Linux when they have transitioned in the future.
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Putting a Shatnerologist in a room full of ordinary people is like putting a velociraptor in a room full of wiener dogs.
KD8TUT
Member

Posts: 522




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« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2016, 06:42:14 PM »

Gentlemen,

I think you are wasting your time here arguing about Windows vs. Linux. Read this and see if the course of wisdom might be to just stop feeding the shills/trolls/know-it-alls/whatever-the-case-may-be. :-)

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&safe=active&site=&source=hp&q=microsoft+paid+shills



Decide for yourself.  Smiley

Are you claiming I work for Microsoft?

I'd consider that slanderous.
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Putting a Shatnerologist in a room full of ordinary people is like putting a velociraptor in a room full of wiener dogs.
K7EXJ
Member

Posts: 875




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« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2016, 09:11:15 PM »

Nowhere did I say they shouldn't.
EVERYWHERE YOU HAVE SAID THAT THEY SHOULDN'T!

Quote
Linux is not the place to start using and managing computers. It's just not. If you do it, more than likely you'll be putting some poor soul through a heck of a time, when a cheap used windows box would give them the basic skills without the esoteric skills you need on a *nix system.
You are posting on a "computers and software" forum on a website dedicated to amateur radio. Who did you think you were talking to? Toddlers? Geriatrics?

Your arrogance is staggering.  
Quote

Also... if they start on what most people use- they will better appreciate Linux when they have transitioned in the future.

I've got news for you, Sherlock, virtually the entire world is now using "what most people use". The original post said that the ham was going back to Windows.

And your post after post was to not try Linux because it's just tooooo harrrrrd.

You still can't see it.

Hopeless.

If you're not a paid shill for Windows then you are missing out on a revenue stream.

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73s de K7EXJ
Craig Smiley
KD8TUT
Member

Posts: 522




Ignore
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2016, 10:57:57 PM »

Nowhere did I say they shouldn't.
EVERYWHERE YOU HAVE SAID THAT THEY SHOULDN'T!

Quote
Linux is not the place to start using and managing computers. It's just not. If you do it, more than likely you'll be putting some poor soul through a heck of a time, when a cheap used windows box would give them the basic skills without the esoteric skills you need on a *nix system.
You are posting on a "computers and software" forum on a website dedicated to amateur radio. Who did you think you were talking to? Toddlers? Geriatrics?

Your arrogance is staggering.  
Quote

Also... if they start on what most people use- they will better appreciate Linux when they have transitioned in the future.

I've got news for you, Sherlock, virtually the entire world is now using "what most people use". The original post said that the ham was going back to Windows.

And your post after post was to not try Linux because it's just tooooo harrrrrd.

You still can't see it.

Hopeless.

If you're not a paid shill for Windows then you are missing out on a revenue stream.



I think you are really over reacting to what you *think* I said.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 11:30:06 PM by KD8TUT » Logged

Putting a Shatnerologist in a room full of ordinary people is like putting a velociraptor in a room full of wiener dogs.
AC7CW
Member

Posts: 1332




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« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2016, 12:18:20 PM »

Ham stuff is so backward! I'm re-entering the hobby and seeing lots of references to Serial Ports! That s%^t has been so gone for so long but here it still is... Touch screen Windows software for hams? Haven't run across any but I might not even know if I did because I don't have a touchscreen computer. So whatever, go with linux if you want. Probably the guys that like to build gear are ok with linux because they like to spend time with stuff and feel like they know how it works. Appliance ops are going to want Windows and I'm surprised they aren't clamoring for touchscreen apps. The newer radios from the Big 3 have some touchscreens I guess. I have affinity for Android apps on my 10.4" tablet though many are so drab and not using the tablet's capabilities that they could be on linux and I wouldn't know the diff...

Disclaimer: I'm more of an appliance operator when it comes to computers. I value aesthetics much more than the typical ham seems to.
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K7EXJ
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Posts: 875




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« Reply #70 on: March 06, 2016, 12:25:29 PM »


Disclaimer: I'm more of an appliance operator when it comes to computers. I value aesthetics much more than the typical ham seems to.

If you are the artistic type then you should take a closer look at Linux. The ability to completely configure a desktop to adapt to your own individualistic taste is unrivaled.

Take the Graphical User Interface known as KDE, for instance. You are not restricted to where you put your icons or what "wallpaper" you use. You can redesign your own GUI from scratch.

Just as a short primer: http://kde-look.org/

Nothing says you can't be an appliance operator on Linux. But you can also make your own appliance.

Google "linux themes" or "linux look and feel" for more information. Lots more. Smiley
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73s de K7EXJ
Craig Smiley
KD8TUT
Member

Posts: 522




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« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2016, 03:35:44 PM »

Ham stuff is so backward! I'm re-entering the hobby and seeing lots of references to Serial Ports! That s%^t has been so gone for so long but here it still is... Touch screen Windows software for hams? Haven't run across any but I might not even know if I did because I don't have a touchscreen computer. So whatever, go with linux if you want. Probably the guys that like to build gear are ok with linux because they like to spend time with stuff and feel like they know how it works. Appliance ops are going to want Windows and I'm surprised they aren't clamoring for touchscreen apps. The newer radios from the Big 3 have some touchscreens I guess. I have affinity for Android apps on my 10.4" tablet though many are so drab and not using the tablet's capabilities that they could be on linux and I wouldn't know the diff...

Disclaimer: I'm more of an appliance operator when it comes to computers. I value aesthetics much more than the typical ham seems to.

Android is essentially Linux based. So you're using a very refined version of Linux.

You could consider a Macintosh. Out of the box it has better sound/streaming/authoring support than Windows. There's also a decent set of ham software out there for it (though I cannot comment on quality since I've not used any of them).

It's more expensive than a PC regardless of operating system. At the same time it's a machine that can run Mac OS, Windows, and Linux.

And Mac OS probably the most polished operating system currently available.

Might be something to think about.
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Putting a Shatnerologist in a room full of ordinary people is like putting a velociraptor in a room full of wiener dogs.
KD3WB
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Posts: 148




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« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2016, 03:54:30 PM »

I avoided Linux for years, mainly because it seemed like the only way to install was to burn the iso to a CD.

Unetbootin will not only download and burn Linux distros to a USB drive, but will also burn an ISO image you downloaded earlier.  Works on Windows, Mac, and Linux.

http://unetbootin.github.io/

I do keep a portable DVD/CD drive around, though.  I still have a lot of music CDs to rip.  None of my current machines have a DVD drive built in.



I still wonder how many potential Linux users were discouraged by the CD burning issue.  I bought a rewritable CD about ten years ago and still haven't used it.  I'm still trying to find a Linux distro for my old Compaq Armada 3500 laptop.

Ben
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KK4GGL
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Posts: 1320




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« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2016, 03:59:50 PM »

Well, try to install RTL drivers, Dump1090 Mutability, SOCAT, Temp, and OpenSSH on Ubuntu, make it run headless without hanging at the grub, then come back and tell me how you did it all and configured then tweaked the operating parameters from the GUI without any command line intervention.

I'm waiting.

(with Win10, it's "download the Dump1090 .exe" run it, "Download the RTL driver, install", Download "SOCAT", run it, enable RDP, use Notepad to modify the batch files for Dump and SOCAT, start it all up in a batch file you created with Notepad, enjoy. No command line needed unless you are a glutton for remote access punishment and insist on using Powershell to do things all at once)

How much of the above is used by "the average user"?

Make  batchfiles with Notepad? Really? But you balk at a command line?
Installation
RTL drivers -
opensuse: YAST -> Software Management -> Search rtl -> click rtlsdr -> Accept (generally installed installing system if needed)
Debian: Synaptic -> Search rtl -> click firmware realtek -> Apply (generally installed during system installation if necessary

Dump1090
opensuse: YAST -> Software Management -> Search dump1090 -> click dump1090 -> Accept

SOCAT:
opensuse: YAST -> Software Management -> socat -> click socat -> Accept
 Synaptic -> Search socat -> click socat -> Apply

openssh
opensuse - YAST -> Software Management -> search openssh -> click openssh -> Accept
Debian Synaptic -> Search openssh -> click openssh-client, openssh-server -> Apply

remote desktop
opensuse - YAST -> Software Management -> search remote desktop -> click whatever package -> Accept

As for which  services start:
YAST -> Services Manager

You can configure almost anything from YAST. Since I don't use Ubuntu, I don't know much about it. For GUI software installation , on Debian, I generally use Synaptic and for GUI configuration, I generally use Webmin. I have not run a headless server in a long time. I know two sight impaired guys (one fully blind, one with almost no vision) that run a few headless servers each, Vinix and gentoo respectively.

And, AGAIN, what does all this have to do with an "average user's" desktop (whatever that is)?
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
W0BTU
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Posts: 2219


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« Reply #74 on: March 06, 2016, 04:02:20 PM »

I still wonder how many potential Linux users were discouraged by the CD burning issue.

Why would downloading an ISO and burning it to CDs (later, DVDs) discourage anyone? I've mostly done it that way for years, and so have countless others.
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