Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Win10 upgrade time  (Read 51175 times)
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 15067




Ignore
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2016, 05:45:47 PM »

"So unlike you I don't live in constant fear (or should I say live the way the terrorist want me to live)."

We'll check back with you after your wife and kids are blown to bits and see how you feel about it then. I bet you will be screaming why didn't the government know about and stop those terrorists.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? You can't do surveillance without showing probable cause and you can't show probable cause without doing surveillance. The program was only collecting toll data (what # called what #). There was no recording of conversations without a court order.



 
Logged

Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
KD8MJR
Member

Posts: 5557




Ignore
« Reply #106 on: July 22, 2016, 06:02:59 PM »

GGL &  MJR  -
Do you  guys  subscribe  to Bruce Schneier's monthly newsletter? I've followed him since I studied cryptography in. grad school back in 1998-2000.

Ted, KX4OM

Nope

73s
Rob
Logged

“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1327




Ignore
« Reply #107 on: July 22, 2016, 06:05:04 PM »

"So unlike you I don't live in constant fear (or should I say live the way the terrorist want me to live)."

We'll check back with you after your wife and kids are blown to bits and see how you feel about it then. I bet you will be screaming why didn't the government know about and stop those terrorists.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? You can't do surveillance without showing probable cause and you can't show probable cause without doing surveillance. The program was only collecting toll data (what # called what #). There was no recording of conversations without a court order.

The program is only collecting toll data (what # called what #), and locations, and length of conversation, types of devices used,  unique device identifiers, email address,  email providers, ISPs and IP address, .

Who you are, where you are, where you are going, what type of devices you use, movement patterns, with whom you communicate... and more.

They say, now, after being exposed, that they track very little and not you conversations. "Their" tract record does not inspire confidence in their truthfulness.
Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1327




Ignore
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2016, 06:05:42 PM »

GGL &  MJR  -
Do you  guys  subscribe  to Bruce Schneier's monthly newsletter? I've followed him since I studied cryptography in. grad school back in 1998-2000.

Ted, KX4OM

No
Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
KD8MJR
Member

Posts: 5557




Ignore
« Reply #109 on: July 22, 2016, 06:20:51 PM »

"So unlike you I don't live in constant fear (or should I say live the way the terrorist want me to live)."

We'll check back with you after your wife and kids are blown to bits and see how you feel about it then. I bet you will be screaming why didn't the government know about and stop those terrorists.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? You can't do surveillance without showing probable cause and you can't show probable cause without doing surveillance. The program was only collecting toll data (what # called what #). There was no recording of conversations without a court order.

Keep waiting, the odds of that happening unless we travel to Syria or Iraq are about the same as you winning the Powerball.
There are a lot of ways to die that are a thousand of time more likely to happen to you than being blown up by some terrorist.  More Toddlers in America kill their parents each year with a Gun than do terrorist.

I can see Donald Trump has you revved up and ready to be safe under his Plan, one that he will of course reveal after he wins the election.

BTW do you really believe they are just collecting what Tel. number called what number?   The telephone companies keep those records and they are easily accessible to law enforcement.  Have you ever seen the size of the NSA Data collection centers? Nobody knows exactly how much Data is collected but the one in Utah has an estimated power consumption of 60MW for just the two buildings.  


Logged

“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
W1GVT
Member

Posts: 17




Ignore
« Reply #110 on: July 23, 2016, 04:02:25 AM »

"So unlike you I don't live in constant fear (or should I say live the way the terrorist want me to live)."

We'll check back with you after your wife and kids are blown to bits and see how you feel about it then. I bet you will be screaming why didn't the government know about and stop those terrorists.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? You can't do surveillance without showing probable cause and you can't show probable cause without doing surveillance. The program was only collecting toll data (what # called what #). There was no recording of conversations without a court order.

"Only collecting toll data"

That's exactly the point. (And it is meta data, not toll data you are referring to.) Metadata describes and gives information about other data. And according to ex-NSA chief Michael Hayden "We kill people based on metadata." http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/ex-nsa-chief-we-kill-people-based-on-metadata/

(And before you say that link talks about killing out of this country those killings were, in some cases, indiscriminate and affected innocent people.)

No thanks. The fascista on this board and elsewhere who support this may well be the targets of this information gathering if and when the political winds change. That is the point.

And for those who continue to use the tired "I've got nothing to hide" argument you've got the argument backwards. If you've got nothing to hide then why do they want to watch you? Read Schneier.

incidentally, to those who claim the NSA snooping has "saved" us from terrorist attacks... that's another lie: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/06/top-5-claims-defenders-nsa-have-stop-making-remain-credible
 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 04:22:41 AM by W1GVT » Logged
N9FB
Member

Posts: 2388




Ignore
« Reply #111 on: July 23, 2016, 10:03:55 AM »

Quote from: AA4PB
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? You can't do surveillance without showing probable cause and you can't show probable cause without doing surveillance.

take the surveillance of Sadaam's Iraq and the WMD's.  look how they cherry-picked data to make a case and killed 400,000 Iraqi civilians and wasted 3 trillion US tax dollars on a war based on false, trumped-up pretense...
and everyday they get more sophisticated in their capacity to analyze and frame data for whatever case they wish to make.   do you trust politicians and the corporate lobbyists and the military industrial complex who pull their strings to do what is right -- or what is profitable to their own interests?  

the 4th amendment was put in place for good reason.  the 'fear of terrorism' tactic to promote a surveillance state is like swiss cheese.  what could go wrong is the question you have to ask and is the thoughtful question which triggered the crafting of the 4th amendment.  

if you really want to apply the utilitarian argument that the end justifies the means then you are logically committed to supporting cameras on everyone, everywhere all-the-time (including bathrooms or bedrooms where terrorists can hide things).  i'll stand with the 4th amendment.  they have been trampling the 4th amendment since the Bush-Cheney so-called "Patriot Act" and it did not prevent the Boston bombing...   but no doubt the terrorists are claiming a despicable victory in having made America a place less free, with les rights for its citizens  Sad
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 15067




Ignore
« Reply #112 on: July 23, 2016, 10:37:17 AM »

Strange - you are more afraid of government employees than you are of terrorists. Have it your way.
Logged

Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
KX4OM
Member

Posts: 375




Ignore
« Reply #113 on: July 23, 2016, 10:50:10 AM »

The signators of the Constitution were very concerned about the government and its powers being used against the citizens. Jefferson and Adams in particular vs. Hamilton and his Federalist ideals.

Ted, KX4OM
Logged
G8YMW
Member

Posts: 750




Ignore
« Reply #114 on: July 23, 2016, 10:58:25 AM »

http://betanews.com/2016/07/20/windows-10-excessive-data-collection-france/

Now JX try telling us that Microsoft are collecting very little data, as they are so obviously in breach of the French Data Protection Act.
Logged

73 de Tony
Windows 10:  Making me profane since March 2017
N9FB
Member

Posts: 2388




Ignore
« Reply #115 on: July 23, 2016, 12:23:13 PM »

Strange - you are more afraid of government employees than you are of terrorists. Have it your way.

actually i am more afraid of the oligarchy and its revolving door between industry roles and govt policy making roles (defense, agriculture, timber, energy, banking) as well as its ownership thru financing political office-holders (on both sides of the so-called aisles in both Houses of Congress) than i am of the the govt employees who carry get paid to do what their bosses tell them is in the nations best 'interests' ...    

Logged
KD8MJR
Member

Posts: 5557




Ignore
« Reply #116 on: July 23, 2016, 02:47:11 PM »

Strange - you are more afraid of government employees than you are of terrorists. Have it your way.


Let me put it in a way that may be more palatable to second amendment protectionist.
Every time you buy a new gun they add that gun to a database under your name.

Every time you use a PC, phone or tablet to browse the web and you log into a legitimate account like your Bank account or Amazon.com and you use a Credit Card to make a purchase, they record the Mac address and other info from that PC/machine and associates it to you. (Ever go to a friends house and Log into one of your big accounts and notice that it asks for extra verification info) That info is not only to make sure your information has not been stolen but it also starts an association process, putting that machines Mac address into a database along with your name.   

So every time you log onto a forum like Smith & Wesson or ar15.com using some pseudonym name like "LongShot".  They already know via the Mac address that "LongShot" is Tim Brown from Atlanta Georgia.

So when you make a casual post that may imply you inherited or own a gun from a period before registration they add that information to what they already have on your file.   Since so many second Amendment guys are worried that they are coming to take your guns, be thankful that if they ever do come they will have a fairly accurate inventory of exactly how many guns you own.

This is just one example of how they keep data, the scary part is that they have an AI program that goes through this Data along with Data in almost every relevant category and moving person by person it builds up a psychological profile on each person across the globe.

This may not mean anything to a 75 year old man but to all those kids 20 and younger, these profiles are going to be devastating news in the future if your trying to get a Job or your applying for a loan, because some machine has already decided that based on all your data scores your just too risky to be given that position or that loan and this will not be based on acts you have committed but on a profile category that you have fallen into.

 The ironic part is that by time this all comes online terrorism in its current form will be long over and yet peoples worthiness for generations to come will be judged by machines and it will all be because we were too scared and handed over our constitutional rights to G-Mint Data collection agencies.





Logged

“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 15067




Ignore
« Reply #117 on: July 23, 2016, 03:04:51 PM »

BS - The MAC address isn't transmitted anywhere except your LAN. A web site server will log your IP address but unless you have a fixed IP address (most people don't) it can only be traced back to your ISP. Yes, if they get a court order they can get the ISP to tell them who was assigned that temporary IP address at a given time - if they do it before the ISP has deleted the records. The reason a site recognizes your home computer is because you allowed it to set a cookie (i.e. write a file to your hard drive) the last time you visited that site. It isn't recognizing your MAC address or your IP address. Don't believe me - try having Windows delete all your cookies and then go back to your web sites. They won't recognize you.

Things are not as scary as you are trying to make out.

Logged

Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
N0IU
Member

Posts: 2005


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #118 on: July 23, 2016, 03:16:23 PM »

actually i am more afraid of the oligarchy and its revolving door between industry roles and govt policy making roles (defense, agriculture, timber, energy, banking) as well as its ownership thru financing political office-holders (on both sides of the so-called aisles in both Houses of Congress) than i am of the the govt employees who carry get paid to do what their bosses tell them is in the nations best 'interests' ...    

A couple of years ago my wife and I spent some time in Ukraine on a genealogical pilgrimage to trace my family's ancestry. It was a great trip, I learned a lot and I am glad I went, but after spending time in a former Soviet territory, I was never more thankful in my entire life to get back to the United States. You have no clue how good you have it.
Logged
KD8MJR
Member

Posts: 5557




Ignore
« Reply #119 on: July 23, 2016, 03:45:18 PM »

BS - The MAC address isn't transmitted anywhere except your LAN. A web site server will log your IP address but unless you have a fixed IP address (most people don't) it can only be traced back to your ISP. Yes, if they get a court order they can get the ISP to tell them who was assigned that temporary IP address at a given time - if they do it before the ISP has deleted the records. The reason a site recognizes your home computer is because you allowed it to set a cookie (i.e. write a file to your hard drive) the last time you visited that site. It isn't recognizing your MAC address or your IP address. Don't believe me - try having Windows delete all your cookies and then go back to your web sites. They won't recognize you.

Things are not as scary as you are trying to make out.




Thats what you think and thats why I said "other info".  Snowden hints to this MAC address usage in one of his statements.

Normally it stops at the router but software embedded in new devices including most likely routers or certain OS's themselves can easily send out the info

And other companies are now using the same technology openly.
http://www.technowriter.net/2012/03/how-to-locate-your-stolen-laptop.html

And BTW cookies are very scary because between the time you last logged on to check your bank statement and then came to this forum did you wipe your cookies?  I assume the answer is no and that would apply to almost everyone.  No one wants to wipe the cookies off their machine because of the enormous headache it creates, the convenience of it all is just another easy way to track what your doing.

BTW if you have Netflix check out a show called "Terms and conditions may apply"  See what one man did through the court system to get a copy of all his internet activity and see the box fulls of Data they finally delivered to his door.


« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 04:49:55 PM by KD8MJR » Logged

“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
Pages: Prev 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!