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Author Topic: AL-811 Amplifiers Suck  (Read 80243 times)
MM0IMC
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Posts: 239




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« Reply #435 on: January 12, 2018, 01:19:30 PM »

When things get too emotional and heated it's time to call out the web jailer to chain and lock the thread.

In before the lock! Cheesy
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K9AXN
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Posts: 442


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« Reply #436 on: January 12, 2018, 02:34:25 PM »

Randy KM4AH,

The following link might give you a start with Beam type tube internals.

http://k9axn.com/attachments/BEAM_TYPE_TUBES_1.pdf

At the end is a link to understanding neutralization of grid driven transmitting tubes.

BTW Thanx for the courteous response.

Regards Jim

I read it and appreciate the info.

Randy,

If anything was unclear please let me know.

Regards Jim
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KOP
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Posts: 346




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« Reply #437 on: January 12, 2018, 03:32:05 PM »

~snip
That's right, THIS THREAD is your opportunity to let it all out.  Its your chance to finally confess that the reason you hate AL-811 amplifiers is because a chinese tube died in the middle of a contest, or just after Dom showed up in P5.  Maybe its because you dropped $10k on an Alpha that is in the shop more than it is the shack, who knows - it doesn't matter.

Staying within the spirit of the OP why would anyone suggest "IBTL" ? Why would anyone want to lock such a thread? Even what appear to be combatants of a personal nature have established more or less reasonable rules of engagement in this thread as well as within this forum. Suggesting that a halt be put to the apparent hostilities here only increases the collateral damage done to other threads even remotely resembling this discussion. I whole heartedly endorse this thread and its purpose for confining, even if a little bit, the enormous outpouring of sentiment for and against the venerable 811A and its uses.

To the staff and administration of eHam, there really is a place for this discussion here.
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I considered a microwave oven magnetron and a 4' dish as a drone-killer. The ERP would be on the order of a hundred thousand watts or so. ~anon

November 28, 2018, 09:16:04 AM
HAMHOCK75
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Posts: 621




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« Reply #438 on: January 12, 2018, 03:46:26 PM »

I agree with KOP. These arguments provide fertile ground for third parties to examine the arguments and come to their own conclusions.
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KOP
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Posts: 346




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« Reply #439 on: January 12, 2018, 04:19:52 PM »



Maybe it's the tubes that suck...
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I considered a microwave oven magnetron and a 4' dish as a drone-killer. The ERP would be on the order of a hundred thousand watts or so. ~anon

November 28, 2018, 09:16:04 AM
K9AXN
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Posts: 442


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« Reply #440 on: January 12, 2018, 05:44:22 PM »

My vote is not to lock the thread however if I was the admin I would demand a certain degree of courtesy.

I believe there is a large number that view this list and a handful that post.

Why would anyone in their right mind post a question or possible solution if they had to put up with a soliloquy from some guy complaining about his lace panties somehow getting wedged between his ear and toes or other dark places and the excrement that he had for breakfast. 

Just don't know how a third party that had an interest in ham radio would find that appealing.  They would have to post a question on the site as to where in the license manual the Q and A for that subject could be found.  I would have to council him to stick around, it should be today maybe 3:00 o:clock --- let the games begin.

This list is for all, and more would post questions or recommendations if there was some degree of courtesy expected.  I've never seen a cat fight solve a technical issue, just turn friends to enemies.

Jim     
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KM1H
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Posts: 5247




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« Reply #441 on: January 12, 2018, 05:54:05 PM »

Quote
This list is for all, and more would post questions or recommendations if there was some degree of courtesy expected.  I've never seen a cat fight solve a technical issue, just turn friends to enemies.

Sounds just like academia.
 
Threads would be better if TROLLS with no participation in the thread subject just pop up to attack someone they dont like and it just goes down from there.
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VK3BL
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Posts: 1789


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« Reply #442 on: January 12, 2018, 06:19:41 PM »

~snip
That's right, THIS THREAD is your opportunity to let it all out.  Its your chance to finally confess that the reason you hate AL-811 amplifiers is because a chinese tube died in the middle of a contest, or just after Dom showed up in P5.  Maybe its because you dropped $10k on an Alpha that is in the shop more than it is the shack, who knows - it doesn't matter.

Staying within the spirit of the OP why would anyone suggest "IBTL" ? Why would anyone want to lock such a thread? Even what appear to be combatants of a personal nature have established more or less reasonable rules of engagement in this thread as well as within this forum. Suggesting that a halt be put to the apparent hostilities here only increases the collateral damage done to other threads even remotely resembling this discussion. I whole heartedly endorse this thread and its purpose for confining, even if a little bit, the enormous outpouring of sentiment for and against the venerable 811A and its uses.

To the staff and administration of eHam, there really is a place for this discussion here.

Agreed.  I don't see the harm in this thread; we're all 'big boys' and should be able to handle a few implied insults or whatever.

"Everything has its place, and in its place, everything"

This is definitely the place for the "AL-811 Jihad" (Holy War).
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J.D. Mitchell BA  - VK3BL / XU7AGA - https://www.youtube.com/ratemyradio - Honesty & Integrity
K9AXN
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Posts: 442


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« Reply #443 on: January 12, 2018, 06:37:05 PM »

Quote
This list is for all, and more would post questions or recommendations if there was some degree of courtesy expected.  I've never seen a cat fight solve a technical issue, just turn friends to enemies.

Sounds just like academia.
 
Threads would be better if TROLLS with no participation in the thread subject just pop up to attack someone they dont like and it just goes down from there.

Now Now Carl we can be friends --- just treat people with courtesy ---- or let the games begin. 

       
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N2EY
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Posts: 5079




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« Reply #444 on: January 12, 2018, 07:46:11 PM »

Quote
Jim, look at the insults I got from Carl. It was so disgusting eham removed an original post with dozens of replies. He should be banned for a month over that!

Dream On, I was not the cause that post was removed, look in the mirror.

 
Quote
I had proven every statement with links I posted and software simulations./quote]

More dreaming. You refused to back up most of your statements and others were off the wall with so much gibberish it was near impossible to follow. Do you have a drinking problem?

Quote
Carl is smart, but does not know everything. He is like a slick fast talking BSing New Yorker

I have never claimed to know everything, only you, EY, and a very few others are so afraid of being corrected that you make those statements. I also have been corrected and freely admit it since I do not take it as a personal insult..instead I LEARN from MY mistakes. Try it sometime.

I'll repeat it over and over until it sinks in...You are all poster boys for extreme egocentric narcissism and will never shut up and end a thread until it is removed or ended by moderator demand.
Birds of a feather flock together and neither of you is capable of even the slightest disagreement over your self created superiority and cries insult and attack. It is classic super thin skin which is a characteristic of the above personality disorder.

EY's reply is full of self serving wording and I wont even bother replying, he is a master manipulator and I along with many others have had to put up with it for over 20 years.





Carl,

Please learn to quote properly, and check what you post before the modify timer runs out.

Otherwise, folks will think all sorts of things....

Jim, N2EY
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N2EY
Member

Posts: 5079




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« Reply #445 on: January 12, 2018, 09:02:21 PM »

I'll have another go at this mess:

I have never claimed to know everything, only you, EY, and a very few others are so afraid of being corrected that you make those statements. I also have been corrected and freely admit it since I do not take it as a personal insult..instead I LEARN from MY mistakes. Try it sometime.

Who is "EY", Carl? If you mean me....why not use my entire callsign? It's N2EY. I've had it for over 40 years. Is it your intention to insult me by not using my entire callsign?

You say you don't take corrections as a personal insult, but your behavior here says exactly the opposite. Anyone who dares to correct you know it.

I'll repeat it over and over until it sinks in...You are all poster boys for extreme egocentric narcissism and will never shut up and end a thread until it is removed or ended by moderator demand.
Birds of a feather flock together and neither of you is capable of even the slightest disagreement over your self created superiority and cries insult and attack. It is classic super thin skin which is a characteristic of the above personality disorder.

You can repeat something all you want, Carl, but that does not make it true.

The part about "will never shut up" reveals your real intention: You want anyone who disagrees with you to shut up and go away.

EY's reply is full of self serving wording and I wont even bother replying, he is a master manipulator and I along with many others have had to put up with it for over 20 years.

Who is "EY", Carl? If you mean me....why not use my entire callsign? It's N2EY. I've had it for over 40 years. Is it your intention to insult me by not using my entire callsign?

This is a discussion forum - which means that when you post something, others have the right to reply, comment, disagree, etc. I think that bothers you - a lot.

It is particularly interesting to see how you attack the messenger rather than the message.

Jim, N2EY
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WA1RNE
Member

Posts: 1010




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« Reply #446 on: January 13, 2018, 06:34:02 AM »

 Been reading this thread off and on for a week or so and must say it's been both disappointing and somewhat entertaining at the same time.

 Most contributors are experienced hams so it begs the question:  why are a bunch of radio jocks typing instead of conversing?


 By virtue of amateur rules and tradition, a live QSO on HF also has a tendency to force a note of professionalism - not withstanding some errant hams who ignore all rules and traditions.


  If more hams used eHam and QRZ to start technical discussions which end up on the air, these forums would become invaluable.

   Why?  Because "on the air" is where these discussions took place before the Internet - meanwhile all your gear sits idle and your antennas stay cold from a lack of RF.

 Personally, I'd like to hear this discussion on 75 meters some night and use eHam to document the minutes.

 ...WA1RNE

    
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KF7CG
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Posts: 1213




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« Reply #447 on: January 13, 2018, 06:52:41 AM »

I will again attempt to put a line of reason here. I am the unashamed owner of an AL-811H. I have had it for several years. It does what I ask when I ask. Therefore, it is a good little amp.

It does take a certain temperament and skill level to work well with a tube type amplifier of this design and manufacture. Tune quickly, drive and load reasonably and don't expect wonders. Of course it helps that my first transmitter was a CW only sweep tube final homebrew of modified ARRL design. Then my first transceiver was a dual sweep tube output type delivering 500 watts input. All good practice for working with an 811 amp.

David
KF7CG
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KM1H
Member

Posts: 5247




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« Reply #448 on: January 13, 2018, 08:16:42 AM »

Excellent post David and indicative of what even beginner hams had to go thru in the dark ages. OTOH it took those individuals, a friend, a HS or other small local club, to sort of smooth the way and usually make headway and those new hams advanced thru the ranks without permanently damaged psyches. Maybe those generations were mentally tougher.....with a few notable exceptions.......

When I was a HS Novice and young General in 1955-58 the bicycle was the most used way to visit others, even if it was up to a 15+ mile ride. My parents didnt allow me to get a learners permit until 17 so the next HS Drivers Ed course didnt start until Jan 58. I still have strong leg and back muscles Grin

There werent crying towels available for worldwide viewing then, and now there are very few local clubs or others with enough skills to help out. HS clubs went extinct or nearly so by the 80's. If it isnt an HT most of our new breed are lost. Plus a few of the You Tube videos Ive seen on amp tuning are just plain wrong.

Add the roller coaster reliability of the AL-811's and it is easy why there are so many varied opinions. I speak from the experience of decades of servicing them and not as an owner. It really annoys me when a short term owner elevates himself to an instant expert and has the gall to criticize others with a lot more experience...but that is human nature and common on all sorts of forums from guns to whatever is the topic.

Then add in the TROLL who just wants to make trouble over and over since it is an affliction of their extreme egocentric narcissism disorder.
On forums I own or moderate those individuals are moderated or removed if they are unable to restrain their urges.

Carl
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K9AXN
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Posts: 442


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« Reply #449 on: January 13, 2018, 09:16:10 AM »

Dave,

The 811 series amp has the most profound love hate relationship of any ever built.

The whole story is incredibly complex and interesting.  Since this thread was spawned, it has been difficult to distinguish whether the diametrically diverse opinions are a result of the amp or the evolving human psyche.  I believe you struck a chord Dave.  The venue probably has more to do with it than anything.  Social (Internet) communications seems to relieve the writer of any responsibility for what and how things are articulated.  Nothing said is tempered by courtesy, dignity or compassion because we are speaking to someone we don't know, a sad commentary.  Is it universal --- no.  It's just a whole lot worse here than most places.

I've been on the planet a lot of years and enjoyed the magnificent era of Ham radio in the 50, 60, 70's, and to this day.  Everyone has a story and a trunk full of experiences.  How can it be that only a hand full of the people speak to those experiences and thousands of the rest are muted.  Apparently it's more interesting to watch a barroom brawl than actually listen to another person share something that he thinks may be of interest to others.  Maybe my expectations are out of line ---- but there was a time when character, dignity, and compassion were important.

I realized that it would give me no solace to tear down a person that was obviously mentally damaged from one of life's twists and turns.  I believe some of his negative behavior is a result of loneliness and a feeling that life has passed him by:  A desperate attempt to reach out for attention that once was and is no more --- just don't know.  

I have an extended family of 56 Children, Grand Children, and Great Grand Children, life is far to valuable than to deal with unpleasant folks; will simply ignore best for everyone.    
    
  
On the lighter side, what was the sweep tube transceiver and did you go to the 811H because you changed to a more modern transceiver?

Kindest regards Jim
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