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Author Topic: St Brandon DXpedition - 3B7  (Read 24301 times)
K0YQ
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Posts: 1372




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« Reply #195 on: April 16, 2018, 06:48:16 AM »

I was able to sneak in a 17 cw QSO for an ATNO the other day during a very brief opening.  No dance from me as too many friends aren't in the log.  Tough going and tough conditions for the less well endowed in the western US.

I absolutely love Seb and this DXpedition team.  Great ops, great communication with updates, and great passion for their trips.  You can tell they love what they do.  Thank you guys!

I do wish they had run way more 20m rtty.  I had absolutely no prayer on 30m with 200W. And so much SSB... 

Safe travels home team and GL to all still looking as I think 2 ops are still there for awhile.

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VK3HJ
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Posts: 1980




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« Reply #196 on: April 16, 2018, 08:10:28 AM »


They have vertical dipole phased arrays. 4 elements low bands which can do amazing things especially 40M/80M when you're on an island in the middle of saltwater.

Yes, and if they are not beaming your way, it was almost pointless calling.
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N1UK
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Posts: 2168




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« Reply #197 on: April 16, 2018, 10:28:48 AM »

I spent a fortune and hours of manual labour to install an 8 circle receiving array for 80/160 and it paid off with a 160m cw QSO. It wasn't easy but finally around their sunrise their signals lifted enough for me to get a good copy and I am in the log.


Zebra dance time for me !!


Mark N1UK
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ZENKI
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Posts: 1548




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« Reply #198 on: April 17, 2018, 04:10:02 AM »

That has been the issue for many "non popular" areas of the ham world. A point that I make regularly.

The recent batch of European lead African DX'peditions made this classic poor operating mistake. I read all the spots on the cluster and I see them beaming JA while  while hearing hundreds of South Americans, VK's, ZL's and Asia other countries calling them.

Then lets talk about the basic propagation technique of grey line Dxing that has been understood for decades. How many times have I heard these many dx'peditions  just ignore many areas of the world  right on their grey line peaks on the low bands. Now if this is not stupidity it really is not fair to expect other areas of the world to struggle with either having a beam turned away from them or expecting DX'station to work them outside their propagation peak.

 I heard many VK's and ZL's calling  these African Dx'peditions on  160 while they were running Europe who had more than a 8 hour darkness window on the low bands. Is this fair operating practice, I think not. At the end of the day the Club Log Statistics support these comments that the latest batch of African dx'peditions have been very selfish and ignorant with their operating practices.

If you look at the great Circle map on the 3B7A web page you can see the difficulties they would have  had with SVDA vertical arrays over sea water in trying to cover the globe. I would  not want to be running outside on a rat infested island to go  turn the beam for 10 VK or ZL stations, and this is certainly what has happened.

I can understand the anger by  VK, ZL, Asia and South American who have to battle European and  JA and European pileups when operators dont want to beam their way. The BY stations were also in this category, told to standby while the they worked endless JA's  and being to told standby right through their peaks. SE Asia roughly has the same peak as JA how can it be fair to be told to standby in a JA pileup or  "JA Only" when the propagation peak is the same time? I can go on and on but I am sure you being in VK would well understand what I am talking about.

Ignorant DX'peditions who are too lazy to turn the beam, are oblivious to grey line propagation peaks, or any propagtion peaks into non populous areas or do not even bother to look at a great circle of map of where they are operating from. I always wonder what would happen if the Europeans or JA's were worked from Heard Island with the beam pointed away from them on their  grey line peak times or  ignored on the low bands. I wonder what would happen to the donation sources and generosity.

Dx'peditions should always consider the global ham radio population and the fairness aspect of what and how they do it. I have seen much more professional dx'peditions from Africa
 like the FT5ZM operation who routinely turned their beams and sort out less popular ham countries and continents.  They did not operate with the JA, NA and Europe bias that we have seen recently. 170,000 QSO with a fair spread of  QSO's with many areas of the world says it all.

The 3B7A dx'epedition would have made many more QSO's  on bands like 10, 12 and 15 meters if they actually turned their beams  and looked at the propagation prediction peaks. This is especially so when the peaks on 10 and 12 metres were so especially short and the propagation would disappear in 10 minutes. That was the reality for many while hours of JA's and Europeans were being worked while the world listened with no chance. Fairness seems to have gone out of the window with many recent dx'peditions.


Hopefully the future 3Y0Z team will consider the aspect of balance and fairness when they  go their and not get trapped by the pileup mentality of  the 3 main regions. I am glad that I dont chase paper awards anymore. I more interested in the competition and performance aspect of ones station as standing on the Club Log Super League tables. To me its a good evaluation  or operators and station equipment than contests. I see 2 excellent stations that stand out in the Club Log League Tables, VK4MA and VK3EW. They seem to be only ones that regularly work these expeditions on 10,12 and 160 meters, this is impressive when you see only 2 VK's in the log on 10 meters. I also hear a lot of VK stations cheating using remote stations in Europe. I have never heard VK's on 10 meters at 1600 GMT even in the best 2 sunspot cycles in our history! These QSO's stand out as remotes because of the time of the day. But thats ham radio today, cheating has arrived like all sports  so whats the point of it all?


They have vertical dipole phased arrays. 4 elements low bands which can do amazing things especially 40M/80M when you're on an island in the middle of saltwater.

Yes, and if they are not beaming your way, it was almost pointless calling.
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ZENKI
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Posts: 1548




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« Reply #199 on: April 17, 2018, 04:16:06 AM »

You should be proud for pulling that one off. The pileups were horrendous and you did not use  remote station. There were many that used remote stations, how can their be pride or achievement in doing this. The fun is the station engineering and understanding the propagation and then winning on the hunt. The whole DXCC program is flawed when they allow remote stations to be used and get a credit for it.

I spent a fortune and hours of manual labour to install an 8 circle receiving array for 80/160 and it paid off with a 160m cw QSO. It wasn't easy but finally around their sunrise their signals lifted enough for me to get a good copy and I am in the log.


Zebra dance time for me !!


Mark N1UK
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W0XX
Member

Posts: 1760




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« Reply #200 on: April 17, 2018, 04:18:45 AM »

Tried again from another location with clear shot north. Same results mostly.  1 1/2 hours calling with now  S5 on the meter. Zilch on 17M SSB. I could hear many NA calling, and spread out. Yet 3B7A does not respond to the callers. Something not right here, there.
I worked VK5MAV at noise level S zero in/out and can't work 3B7A with S5.

After doing this mobile gig for several years. One gets a "feel" for what is workable. S5 signal for hours should be workable. 500 watts on this end.

Oh well.....at least I got them on 40 and 80. I have to repeat. All were first call responses. Go figure ? That 80M Q was almost shocking. I know that short mobile antenna is lousy on 80M. Even with the tophat loops. I found an acorn for sure with that QSO. I heard the op laughing at my excitement.

73 N5UD mobile

I tried to call them with the limited opening on 160 bu unfortunately, they were focused on EU and EC most of the time.  They came up in strength to make is less of a strain but went QRX which usually means, adios on this band.  So, no, no opportunity to really work them on 160.  Conditions here in past days have been rough with storms within 500-1000 miles but the inability to stay on long enough for other areas to have a chance.  Perhaps next time with another crew.  At least I heard them well.

Did get them on 40 the other night, barefoot.  That was odd.  Was in the log so it wasn't a slim fortunately and the DQRMer from up north wasn't on.  On 40 SSB someone played some chaps call over and over, listened to them blast thru it though while working on a radio.  Nice signal even with teh DQRM.  Don't know what makes some sickos do that....

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VK3HJ
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Posts: 1980




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« Reply #201 on: April 17, 2018, 04:48:39 AM »

Studying the Club Log information, I see only two VKs worked this one on 160 m, both VK6. They would have had a completely over water path to their advantage.

I did manage to work them on 6 bands, 80 m through 15 m, and heard them on 160 m and 12 m, so was reasonably pleased with that. After working them once on a band, I could see no point in spending time hoping they would turn their beams again.

I was most surprised to make it on 80 m CW one morning, when they were working Japan. On Low Bands, most of the East Coast is in sunrise at the same time as Japan. Try beating a JA pileup!

Later in the DXped, they were calling for "JA and OC" but, beaming to JA, we were mostly well rejected off the side of their beams.

This was a satisfactory DXpedition, from my point of view. Oceania made 1.0% of the log. This is several times better than all the other recent Africa DXpeditions.
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N5UD
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Posts: 1453




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« Reply #202 on: April 17, 2018, 12:09:59 PM »

"The signals has been mostly weak on the higher frequencies here @63N, but they hear really well.
So do not give up, as long as you can hear them!"

Spent hours calling on 20,17,15. I thought they were deaf. Maybe they have attenuators switched in on receive to cut back the pile up ? Then mask the weak signals too ? A few times on 17M I think they heard me. Just couldn't quite get my call.

73 N5UD mobile
At least you are hearing them on those bands Tony, very weak this far south.

Obie N5VYS
Maybe I would have been better off not hearing them 20 - 15. I would not have spent the time calling.
Heard them for near 2 hours on Sunday 17M. S5 for a good while. Nada. Heard many NA calling with same result as me. The op was slow to call anyone from NA.
I thought with your beam you would have got them on those bands ?
Hey 10,050 miles a mile too far ? Well got em on 40 and 80 first call every time. Powerhouse DX station, right ?

What's next up for us Obie ? KH1 ?

73 Tony N5UD/M

« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 12:13:04 PM by N5UD » Logged
EI2GLB
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Posts: 1019




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« Reply #203 on: April 17, 2018, 02:02:41 PM »

I know you guys don't care what I say but they really did try to work as much NA as they could,

Most afternoons the minute the heard the first NA signals it was straight to NA only for hours at a time, much to the annoyance of European hams who have to work and only get home in the evening,

Sure EU had way more Q's but there's more EU hams actively chasing dx and we are a lot closer and had more/longer openings,
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N5MOA
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Posts: 1654




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« Reply #204 on: April 17, 2018, 02:12:04 PM »

Anything above 20m was fairly weak, but managed to work them 80-15m, plus 40m ssb from the mobile.

I never heard a peep on 160m, 12m or 10m.

I did hear them call for NA a lot, on every band I could hear them on.

All things considered, I think they did a pretty good job.

Tom N5MOA
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NU1O
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Posts: 4553




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« Reply #205 on: April 17, 2018, 02:13:38 PM »


Most afternoons the minute the heard the first NA signals it was straight to NA only for hours at a time, much to the annoyance of European hams who have to work and only get home in the evening,

Europeans work?  I thought everybody in the EU was getting a monthly check.
Sure EU had way more Q's but there's more EU hams actively chasing dx and we are a lot closer and had more/longer openings,

Europe maybe closer but that's a dubious claim that Europe has more DXers chasing DX than the USA.

NU1O
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N5VYS
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Posts: 1371




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« Reply #206 on: April 17, 2018, 02:54:39 PM »

"The signals has been mostly weak on the higher frequencies here @63N, but they hear really well.
So do not give up, as long as you can hear them!"

Spent hours calling on 20,17,15. I thought they were deaf. Maybe they have attenuators switched in on receive to cut back the pile up ? Then mask the weak signals too ? A few times on 17M I think they heard me. Just couldn't quite get my call.

73 N5UD mobile
At least you are hearing them on those bands Tony, very weak this far south.

Obie N5VYS
Maybe I would have been better off not hearing them 20 - 15. I would not have spent the time calling.
Heard them for near 2 hours on Sunday 17M. S5 for a good while. Nada. Heard many NA calling with same result as me. The op was slow to call anyone from NA.
I thought with your beam you would have got them on those bands ?
Hey 10,050 miles a mile too far ? Well got em on 40 and 80 first call every time. Powerhouse DX station, right ?

What's next up for us Obie ? KH1 ?

73 Tony N5UD/M


Yes sir, KH1 is next.. Tony. 3B7A is only 10.776 miles from my qth? I was not around for their closure.
 
I was chasing the Bull Red Fish at Port Aransas. Caught my limit. But I did managed to get them for new band and mode (RTTY) and I'm thankful.

Obie N5VYS
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W7WQ
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Posts: 330




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« Reply #207 on: April 17, 2018, 03:37:52 PM »

Thank you to the team for providing the opportunity.  Conditions here on the left coast were challenging for us tiny stations.  The first call boys even had some problems.  I managed to get a
20 phone qso with my lowly dipole and 50 watts but was  hoping for a CW contact.  In any event, well done to the team and congrats to all who needed and got them.
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WO7R
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Posts: 3251




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« Reply #208 on: April 17, 2018, 03:53:41 PM »

Quote
Europe maybe closer but that's a dubious claim that Europe has more DXers chasing DX than the USA.

On what do you base that?  Europe has a larger population than the US.  It is true that the economies of the individual countries varies, but then, so do the economies of the various US States.

Based on my limited experience in easy DXpeditioning, there are plenty of EUs to work and not terribly hard to find, either.  There's a lot more in Russia, in particular, than you might expect, to say nothing of big countries like G, DL, F, and I.

And, to put it in historical perspective, I picked three DXpeditions with continental stats.  T32C had about 51 per cent "North America" and about 28 per cent EU.  But FT5ZM had about 50 per cent EU and 25 per cent NA.  HK0NA was about 41 per cent EU and about 48 per cent NA.

I could look farther, but you get the idea.  The ratio between NA and EU will vary based on how close the DX is to one or the other.  There is certainly no lack of EU stations to work and no reason whatever to suppose that NA overwhelms EU in terms of DX population.
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N5UD
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Posts: 1453




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« Reply #209 on: April 17, 2018, 05:39:45 PM »

"The signals has been mostly weak on the higher frequencies here @63N, but they hear really well.
So do not give up, as long as you can hear them!"

Spent hours calling on 20,17,15. I thought they were deaf. Maybe they have attenuators switched in on receive to cut back the pile up ? Then mask the weak signals too ? A few times on 17M I think they heard me. Just couldn't quite get my call.

73 N5UD mobile
At least you are hearing them on those bands Tony, very weak this far south.

Obie N5VYS
Maybe I would have been better off not hearing them 20 - 15. I would not have spent the time calling.
Heard them for near 2 hours on Sunday 17M. S5 for a good while. Nada. Heard many NA calling with same result as me. The op was slow to call anyone from NA.
I thought with your beam you would have got them on those bands ?
Hey 10,050 miles a mile too far ? Well got em on 40 and 80 first call every time. Powerhouse DX station, right ?

What's next up for us Obie ? KH1 ?

73 Tony N5UD/M


Yes sir, KH1 is next.. Tony. 3B7A is only 10.776 miles from my qth? I was not around for their closure.
 
I was chasing the Bull Red Fish at Port Aransas. Caught my limit. But I did managed to get them for new band and mode (RTTY) and I'm thankful.

Obie N5VYS

How big were the reds ?

I didn't call them at all till last Mon or Tue night. That was 40M SSB. Came right back but I could not convince them I was mobile. So I waited till Thursday night to try again. Got the /m through first call on 40 CW. Then a bit later got em 80 SSB first call. That op laughed at Texas mobile getting through. Then got em on 40M SSB the same night as I recall. Well that wrapped up the night time bands for me. So tried the next 3 mornings for a high band QSO. Zilch. Sunday he work NA for 5-10 mins. Give up and go back to ALL.
Oh had tornadoes up here Fri-Sat
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