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Author Topic: 7.3 Truck Guys  (Read 7752 times)
W9IQ
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Posts: 2907




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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2017, 04:59:09 AM »

Maybe it just isn't visible in the pictures but I don't see a common mode choke on the feedline. You should install one on both ends.

Similar to another truck EMI problem thread here on eham, since your issues are on 40 meters, I recommend using #75 ferrite material since this will offer the best suppression on this band. You can add some of this material to your control cables as well. As you probably know, multiple turns are much more effective than a single turn. Unlike the higher bands, the interwinding capacitance has minimal effect so more turns are better. Single turn split snap ons of #75 are still a good option if you have no other choice for OEM wiring.

- Glenn W9IQ

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- Glenn W9IQ

I never make a mistake. I thought I did once but I was wrong.
W4AKF
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2017, 06:23:48 AM »

So choke on the coax exiting the tunematic in truck ...and then another on the coax as it enters the antenna?  How many turns do you suggest?

73
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W9IQ
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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2017, 08:45:42 AM »

If you can work in 5 turns, that should be sufficient.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

I never make a mistake. I thought I did once but I was wrong.
W4AKF
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2017, 01:01:28 PM »

Wrapping the ECU in grounded foil might shield it from ambient RFI getting in that way, but RFI may be more likely coming in through the wiring harness.
 As far as sensors, a digital 'on-off' square waveform might be more RFI-proof than say a sine wave or analog signal.
 Of course on Google I came across many discussions on which vehicle choice would have a better chance of surviving an EMP strike.
 Chrysler released a TSB (and this general idea may apply to other manufacturers vehicles in similar conditions). Technical Service Bulletin # 18-16-96 was for '96 minivans that would act-up around radar or air traffic control facilities.
 Mopar offered a 'hardened' Crankshaft Position Sensor that cost 3x what the standard CPS cost. This was where the engineers felt that the RFI was entering the ECU. The new CPS body and signal pigtail had extra shielding.

Very interesting...I wonder if adding a ground strap at the CPS would help...bonded the muffler in three places today...same issue on 30-40- meters....palomar won't answer there phone  lol...
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W4AKF
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2017, 01:12:04 PM »

Thanks for all the ideas guys...I have Palomar Engineers Ferrite Snap on Combo Pack, MIx 75, RFI Range 150 KHz-10 MHz - 8 filters...on the way....as my truck is officially bonded to death now  LOL

73
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W4AKF
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2017, 12:37:09 PM »

We have progress!

Worked on cleaning up the install of the 706 yesterday.....I had the separation cable running from the rig on the back seat, under the middle of the front seat and up to the head of the 706. These F350 fords have a plastic trim on the threshold of the door, that will pop up revealing a nice channel there with a wiring harness in it.

I had previously routed some #4 battery wire from the under the hood battery into the back of the cab where I installed an inverter . There was still enough room in the channel to route the separation cable from the rig from the back seat through the channel and up behind the dash to the head of the radio. Made a very clean install, I just don't like wires all over the floor, or hanging wires. I rerouted the power supply from the gps on the windshield, and also the supply to the dash cam which is mounted next to the gps next to the rear view mirror under the headliner and popped off the trim that frames the windshield and nestled it all in there. Then found a place on the fuse block under the dash that had a key positive b+ connection. They were both using lighter sockets for 12v before...cleaned it up nicely.

I have ferrites on the way from palomar, but the good news is...the RFI issue is almost totally rectified, I was just playing with it...and only on one frequency on the 40 meter band is there and RFI issue, pretty happy about that...can't wait to install the chokes and see if it all goes away. The rfi I also had on 30 meters is gone completely. So I guess the proximity of the separation cable to the rig and tunmatic was a big part of the issue...maybe it is being shielded better being down in the truck body a couple of inches in the channel is the reason. Just had a nice qso with W7CI in Arizona, he reported a nine over from my little 100 watt 706.  I am impressed with this tarheal and the tunematic compatibility and performance. The swr is flat on the bands, and is sure nice to be able just to hit the tune button and have it adjusted for you in a few seconds.

73
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W4AKF
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2017, 12:08:17 PM »

OK go the chokes from Palomar....a lot  HI HI

Installed yesterday....on every feed line, tunematic wires, head control,battery wires....basically everything that was connected with the radio in the truck got chokes.
Good news is all problems are gone from 40 meters, no truck issues...but now 30 meters is worse...will actually stall the truck when keying up. Next plan of attack is shielding the injector harness...and grounding it it in multiple places, and wrapping in foil. But it is like 9000 degrees down here today...we went from winter to dead of summer fast this year, but they are calling for a bit of a cool down this weekend and will attend to it again

W4AKF
73
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W4AKF
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2017, 12:24:14 PM »

Solution found!!!!!!

After fighting RFI since the installation of my 706 in the 7.3 truck....spending days bonding the body-motor-chassis-muffler to no avail, I still could not safely key the  mike on 40-30 meters while driving as it would cause the truck to simply shut off....not a good thing when in traffic on the interstate.

Had my truck into my 30 year mechanic at Bill Currie ford yesterday...and he asked what was up with all the weird wiring under the hood and under the body. I told him about the RFI problem, he said to shield the CPS sensor on the front of the block. He suggested roofers lead wrapped around the sensor and wire....so off to home depot.

Found some lead....big rolls....cost to much......so down the isle was a through the roof vent lead.....zoomed back home...crawled under the truck, but getting to the CPS without being on a lift was challenging...not to mention it is 9000 degrees down here....I was going to wait until I got it back on the lift.

Came back into the a/c and did some net searching....seems the ICP sensor was of concern, but could not find anybody that had messed with that.  The ICP sensor is just to the right of the fuel bowl and easily messed with. I cut a portion of the lead 'tube' about three inches off of the lead. Removed the wire from the ICP...pealed back the wire loom a bit and clamped on a ferrite I had left from the Palomar kit....placed the lead tube over the sensor, reattached  the wire, and crimped the top tight...just hand tight.

You will read on the net that it is the injectors cable shield that have to be grounded at each injector....well that is really problematic as the injector harness on the 7.3 is under the valve cover...but they are not the issue...is the ICP.

Key the mike now on any 30-40 meter freq.....and NO ISSUE...NOTHING....truck does not skip...burp..or turn off...you can't tell the tunmatic is even working...as the truck runs perfectly...so...the fix is  ....shield the ICP with lead...and problem solved. Is a big piece of mind to rectify this problem, as the thought of the truck cutting off on the road was very disconcerting.

W4AKF

73



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WZ7U
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Posts: 1073




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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2017, 12:47:54 PM »

Fantastic! You should post this everywhere as that is very good information to have. Congratulations.  Cool
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K8AXW
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Posts: 7022




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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2017, 09:49:47 AM »

AKF:  Reading your posts gave me a migraine!  I was able to visualize the work you did because I did some of that myself, a long time ago.

I was very impressed with your knowledge of your truck(s), and patience.  Today, if I had to trouble shoot RFI with my modern car, I'd simply give it up.

Congratulations on a job well done!  I agree 100%  with ZU.....this information should become available online....perhaps on Youtube.
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A Pessimist is Never Disappointed!
W4AKF
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2017, 11:07:15 AM »

see next post
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 11:20:58 AM by W4AKF » Logged
W4AKF
Member

Posts: 17




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« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2017, 11:20:19 AM »

installation done





Easy to use...with eyes on the road






Grounded everything I could...including the a/c condensor



Hood straps helped the noise a lot





chokes on all the battery cables



Battery to radiator and fender ground




Alternator to ground



other battery to ground





feed to tarheal with choke




Chokes on all wiring...you get all sizes with the $125 palomar kit



and being a boat guy...I had #4 battery cable on the shelf...so used it up along with the straps.....under the truck I used strap on all four corners, bed to cab....frame to cab in four places...and frame to muffler in three places using strap and ss self taping screws washers and hose clamps.....  has cured the 'lets shut off the truck when transmitting on 30-40 meters issue'.  And I never had a bad noise level....but noise is nonexistent also now.

W4AKF
73






« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 11:23:34 AM by W4AKF » Logged
W4XKE
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Posts: 0


WWW

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« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2017, 01:23:20 PM »

  "  ....shield the ICP "

(Huh)  I don't have a diesel anything but it was interesting to follow the thread in troubleshooting this problem.  It seemed illogical to me that a source of electrical interference would have any effect on a diesel engine so I became quite curious.  They say you can learn something new every day.

The fix was shielding the ICP.  No clue what that acronym stood for so I looked it up and all the Google hits came back Insane Clown Posse.



So then I started adding other words to the string such as Ignition?  Power?  Finally, CONTROL and SENSOR produced the likely target...   Injector Pressure Control Sensor.  (viola)



WOW!  Hope I never need one...  they're on sale for $200 and change!  Reading technical literature these days with all the obscure terms and abbreviations is much akin to solving a series of sudoku puzzles.  When I was working at Delco it seemed that the corporate office was coming out with two or three new acronyms every week.  It was a challenge to read interoffice memorandums that were chock full of them.  Well, FWIW, I can now add another one - ICP - to my vocabulary.

I'll chime in with K8AXW - I'd probably have given up trying to find a solution!  I commend you on your perseverance and skills.  You done good!  :-)

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K7KBN
Member

Posts: 3661




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« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2017, 03:03:28 PM »

I hate TLAs.

TLAs? What are they?

Three Letter Acronyms.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
W4AKF
Member

Posts: 17




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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2017, 06:28:59 AM »

  "  ....shield the ICP "

(Huh)  I don't have a diesel anything but it was interesting to follow the thread in troubleshooting this problem.  It seemed illogical to me that a source of electrical interference would have any effect on a diesel engine so I became quite curious.  They say you can learn something new every day.

The fix was shielding the ICP.  No clue what that acronym stood for so I looked it up and all the Google hits came back Insane Clown Posse.



So then I started adding other words to the string such as Ignition?  Power?  Finally, CONTROL and SENSOR produced the likely target...   Injector Pressure Control Sensor.  (viola)



WOW!  Hope I never need one...  they're on sale for $200 and change!  Reading technical literature these days with all the obscure terms and abbreviations is much akin to solving a series of sudoku puzzles.  When I was working at Delco it seemed that the corporate office was coming out with two or three new acronyms every week.  It was a challenge to read interoffice memorandums that were chock full of them.  Well, FWIW, I can now add another one - ICP - to my vocabulary.

I'll chime in with K8AXW - I'd probably have given up trying to find a solution!  I commend you on your perseverance and skills.  You done good!  :-)



And to add to the issue...there are two types of ICP's.....the one pictured...and the one I have which is about three inches longer and juts up from the valve cover like an antenna....and it was an RF antenna, as what sticks up is all metal like a vertical....lead fixed that...

73
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