Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: When do I stop re-playing the sound?  (Read 7036 times)
K1HMS
Member

Posts: 507




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2017, 08:54:09 PM »

Jerry,

I was drafted as the 80m cw op using a winkeyer and decoder at field day last year and vowed I would learn code before FD 2017 which is a couple weeks away and I'm ready. I'll use WinKeyer for sending but only my ears for copying. I'm ready.

Starting last fall I started practicing and committed to at least a half hour per week day no matter what. I used 20 and 2wpm. To avoid a long post I'll just say it is a multi phase process. You get to the point you hear . . . - your processing it in your mind, and your finger has aleady hit the V key, weird. Its like ear to finger with no brain. DMA of sorts.

Task one is instant recognition of the characters. Once you master that reducing the spacing is a non issue. That said actual speed of 9 may be too fast if it is distracting you from clean positive copy of the characters. The reason it is 15/9 and a struggle and not 15/15 is you haven't really learn the characters yet. I put numbers and punctuation off to later in the process. They are easy to learn due to their length and pattern.
Logged
KM3K
Member

Posts: 417




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2017, 07:16:55 AM »

That said actual speed of 9 may be too fast if it is distracting you from clean positive copy of the characters.

Hamilton K1HMS,

Congratulations on your accomplishment; you had a goal to be able to do CW by FD-2017 and are now ready for FD-2017.

Thanks for the reply.
I have printed-out both of your replies to be re-read as a source of encouragement when I inevitably hit-a-wall in this learning process.
There is so much good information in each reply that I want to share it with my club members.

About my speed of 15/9, it is ok; I am in my "comfort zone" there.

Have a great FD-2017; you have earned it.
73 Jerry KM3K
Logged
K1HMS
Member

Posts: 507




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2017, 09:08:41 AM »

Jerry,

I wouldn't distribute it to widely, code learning methods are not "one size fits all".
It sounded like you have the same non-visual challenge I have, and a similar approach to learning code.

HMS
Logged
K8AXW
Member

Posts: 6994




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2017, 09:47:58 AM »

Jerry:  I too am a "visual" learner.  That is, if you tell me 3 things to do, by the time you get to #3 I have forgotten what #1 was.

You can tell me how to operate a piece of equipment (for example my #$%^#@$$ Comcast DVR) and when you finish I'm right where I started! Give me the manual and I'm in like Flynn!

However, after saying all of this, I'd like to point out that Morse is not a "visual" thing.  It is a reactive thing.  It's like you hear a sound and react immediately to it.  If you can't react to it immediately (without 'thinking') you haven't learned that sound.

So forget "visual."  The fact that you can copy characters at 25wpm but in the real world, CW is sent at slower speeds and has proper spacing (.vs long spaces between these 25wpm characters) shows exactly what I preach. Gimmick methods may get you going in a hurry but then you will have to relearn the whole thing again.

Now that you've been forced to slow down and 'relearn' the code, do it right.  Stay at the slower speeds and gradually build it up, both in sending and receiving. Block print as fast as you can the try cursive writing at the faster speeds.  When that ability is exceeded, you've maxed out since you are forced to operate portable. This is the time when you start to master "head copy."

The main thing of all is have fun at the speed at which you can operate.  Your speed will automatically increase; head copy will also increase automatically.   Just don't ruin the whole experience by forcing the process!
Logged

A Pessimist is Never Disappointed!
KM3K
Member

Posts: 417




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2017, 01:17:24 PM »

Jerry,
I wouldn't distribute it to widely, code learning methods are not "one size fits all".
It sounded like you have the same non-visual challenge I have, and a similar approach to learning code.
HMS

HMS,
Understood about "one size fits all"; that said, I think all the other items you mentioned would be of great importance to a newbie CW operator.

Quote from:  link=topic=114698.msg1002614#msg1002614 date=1497026878
However, after saying all of this, I'd like to point out that Morse is not a "visual" thing. 
It is a reactive thing. 
It's like you hear a sound and react immediately to it. 
If you can't react to it immediately (without 'thinking') you haven't learned that sound.
So forget "visual."


AXW,
Thanks for the input.
We do agree that Morse-code is a reactive process.
For several letters now, I am realizing that the brain is out-of-the-loop; as HMS puts it, "ear-to-finger".
I have great hope that, with more practice, this will happen with the other letters (akin to my learning how to touch-type).

Here is where "visual" comes into play for me.
Lets say a 5 letter word is being sent.
I would be incapable of remembering the first four letters and then write down the word.
I would have to write down each letter one at a time, so I can then read the word; that's the visual aspect for me.

All that said, I still found it easier with a character-speed at 25wpm.
There I was just hearing sounds.
But, even if I could master 25/25 with a keyboard, I could not write that fast on paper operating in a field or on a beach somewhere.
So, the need to slow down to 15wpm.

Maybe a goal for me would be to emulate HMS and operate CW for my club in FD-2018.

73 Jerry KM3K
Logged
K1HMS
Member

Posts: 507




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2017, 06:07:22 PM »


Maybe a goal for me would be to emulate HMS and operate CW for my club in FD-2018.

73 Jerry KM3K

Jerry - That's not a very lofty goal. Wink  The exchange is just  Call, Class, and ARRL section. You might send "KM3K 1A PA TU in response to a call after receiving similar. It is great call sign practice....
Logged
M0LEP
Member

Posts: 506




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2017, 02:20:01 AM »

That's not a very lofty goal.
I figure contests may be good callsign and number-reading practice, but participating in them is too high-stress to provide any useful practice for me, so any practice I get from them will be from listening only.
Logged
N3QE
Member

Posts: 5472




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2017, 07:16:46 AM »

That's not a very lofty goal.
I figure contests may be good callsign and number-reading practice, but participating in them is too high-stress to provide any useful practice for me, so any practice I get from them will be from listening only.

I completely understand the stress of first CW contacts. I clearly remember my first CW QSO's at age 10 and how exciting/stressful that was.

At same time I think you misunderestimate the very real skill-building advantages of contest QSO's. The repetitive fixed format has a lot of advantages for someone learning CW, and the overall high quality of the of the operators involved means they will work with you to get the callsigns and exchange across.

The value of 10 real two-way QSO's on the air, in terms of skill building, is way above the value of 100's of hours of copy-only practice.

I compare the average quality of CW operators on the Novice bands 40 years ago, to the CW that is commonly heard on the air today. Wow, we were using so many poor practices back then.

Tim N3QE
Logged
M0LEP
Member

Posts: 506




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2017, 02:15:47 PM »

For me, contests introduce a whole extra level of stess. Most of my CW contacts have been from SOTA summits I have activated. The exchange is usually minimal (though perhaps not quite as predictable as a contest one) but there's also much less stress, at least for the activator. If the chasers want the summit then they will slow down enough and repeat stuff often enough to ensure their call is in your log. Also, by the time you activate your second summit using CW you will probably have heard at least some of the chasers before, and they'll know you, too. (I suspect other schemes involving activating locations may offer the same sort of low-stress opportunities to new-to-CW operators.) The main catch is that, unless there's a handy summit in your back yard, getting out to activate one every day can be quite a challenge.
Logged
K1HMS
Member

Posts: 507




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2017, 05:45:18 PM »

That's not a very lofty goal.
I figure contests may be good callsign and number-reading practice, but participating in them is too high-stress to provide any useful practice for me, so any practice I get from them will be from listening only.

At same time I think you misunderestimate the very real skill-building advantages of contest QSO's. The repetitive fixed format has a lot of advantages for someone learning CW,.....

Tim N3QE
[/quote]

There was a smilly with a wink after my "not lofty" comment, trust me I'm not underestimating FD as a test and Thirteen Colonies is suppose to be one continuous pile up which will be a real challenge for a new CW op. They are only a week apart and coming up fast.

Hamilton
Logged
M0LEP
Member

Posts: 506




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2017, 10:58:05 AM »

There was a smilly with a wink after my "not lofty" comment, trust me I'm not underestimating FD as a test and Thirteen Colonies is suppose to be one continuous pile up which will be a real challenge for a new CW op.
Aye. Contests are (at least for me) very high-stress operating, to the point of not actually being any fun. There are more interesting and less stressful ways of getting very similar skill-building experience, and if the experience is more relaxed then chances are the learning will be more effective.
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!